Yes, Hon. Ngâongo.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, aware that the fishing industry makes a major contribution to the economy by producing over Kshs10 billion in foreign exchange and further aware that the industry provides employment both directly and indirectly to many people; noting that the potentiality of the sector is under threat due to use of non- scientific ways of fishing and continued use of wrong fishing gear due to poverty levels affecting the fishermen; this House urges the Government to establish a Fund from which fishermen can be given grants and access cheap loans to help them acquire the correct and scientific fishing gear. Thank you, hon. Speaker.
Very well. Can we have the next hon. Member? Yes, hon. Chris Wamalwa.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I beg to given notice of the following Motion:-
THAT, aware that the National Cereals and Produce Board is now procuring fertilizers, which is not its mandate, cognizant of the fact that this had led to delays in the importation and procurement of the necessary input for the farmers in a timely manner, noting with concern that fertilizers arrive after the planting season; deeply concerned that, that is affecting food security in the country as fertilizers are the key inputs in farming; also noting that lack of those inputs affects farm yields and impoverishes farmers; this house urges the Government to set up a fertilizer board that will manage the issues of fertilizer and other farm inputs, while offering subsidized inputs to farmers and also fast-
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Very well. Hon. Kinyanjui, go ahead.
Thank you so much, hon. Speaker, Sir. I have been advised by the Leader of Majority Party that I should give notice of my Motion in the afternoon. But with your indulgence, I can move it because I have it here already.
It is giving notice of your Motion, not moving it!
Yes, hon. Speaker. I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, aware that the road network in the country currently stands at approximately 160,886 kilometres out of which only approximately 11,189 kilometres are paved; noting that the extent of unclassified and urban roads remains unknown, with most such roads in such bad condition; aware that good infrastructure facilitates trade, economic development and improvement in quality of life; this House urges the Government through the Kenya Rural Roads Authority (KeRRA), Kenya National Highways Authority (KeNHA) and Kenya Urban Roads Authority (KURA) to upgrade a minimum of 20 and a maximum of 30 kilometres of roads to bitumen standard in every constituency across the country in every financial year to enhance roads network in the country and subsequently enhance agricultural productivity and job creation. Thank you, hon. Speaker.
Thank you hon. Speaker, Sir. I beg to move the following Procedural Motion:- THAT, the business appearing in todayâs Order Paper be exempted from the provisions of Standing Order 40(3) being a Wednesday Morning, a day allocated for business not sponsored by the Majority or the Minority Party or a Member belonging to the Majority or the Minority Party or business sponsored by a Committee. Hon. Speaker, I urge the House to approve this Procedural Motion on the basis that the Division of Revenue Bill (Bill No.1 of 2013) has a timeline because it is supposed to be before the National Assembly and all the process for a period of ten days and, thereafter, be sent to the Senate. Hon. Speaker, Sir, we have today, tomorrow and Thursday to dispose of this matter and I urge my colleagues to agree that we begin the Second Reading of the Bill today. That is with the Chairâs approval. We can them go to the Committee of the whole House tomorrow. I urge my good friend, Deputy Majority Whip, hon. Wamalwa, to second.
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Thank you hon. Speaker, Sir. I am not Majority Whip but Minority Whip. I stand up to second. This is a very critical Bill and we all know that in the spirit of devolution, it is, indeed, very critical. I second. Thank you.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I want to support this Procedural Motion. Even this House is aware that this issue should have been transacted in March, but because of circumstances, which all of us know about, there was no effective Parliament effective as at 10th March - it was not practical. This is a Motion that we need to dispose of. We have no time actually. We have up to tomorrow because the ten days are calendar days.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, allow me to just say as I conclude that it is unfortunate that this Bill will be transacted in this House without going through the necessary scrutiny by the Budget and Appropriations Committee. This is a mistake that this House should be responsible for. We are letting down the people of Kenya by unnecessary grandstanding. I wish that we wake up to the reality that this country requires proper scrutiny of the various Bills that come to this House.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, finally, I urge that both sides of the House to be sober and know that we want to move forward and have the committees in place as soon as possible. Thank you.
Yes, Hon. Cheptumo.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I rise to support the Motion. Under Standing Order No.233, we are supposed to send this Bill to the Senate, as my other colleagues have said. This Bill is critical because we are now going for the first time to share the national revenue with the county governments. We need to do our duty as a House. Article 95 of the Constitution requires us, as a House, to fulfill our mandate that we are supposed to do. In as much as I say this, sometimes I wonder--- My good friend hon. Mbadi talks of us failing as a House. The Minority side of the House is really the cause of this problem. We are not going to have the committees of the House to address this issue and look at the Bill. Why? That is because our colleagues on the Minority side have refused to participate in the creation of the committees.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, we should go forward and say we need to sober up. It is both sides of the House â the Minority and the Majority sides which should sober up on these issues. So, I support this Motion and we need to pass it as soon as possible, so that it can be taken to the Senate. Thereafter, it will be used to allocate the national resources of our country.
Thank you, Hon. Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Motion. I have had a look at the Bill that we are supposed to dispose of. This is the first time that this is happening since the new Constitution was promulgated. As it has been stated by the speaker before me, we will not have the advantage of going through this Bill after a committee has looked at it. There are quite a number of issues in this Bill, including an apparent dispute between the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) and the National Treasury. We, therefore, as Members of this House, have a serious task. We do not have time, but it is necessary that we go through this with a tooth comb and make sure that what we follow the Constitution and the reality on the ground. As I have said, this is the first time that this is happening. Unless we set the proper precedent
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Hon. Members, whereas it is your right here to debate the Procedural Motion, we know that you are actually saying the right thing. It is only that this is what we are supposed to be heading to â the debate on the Bill. The current Motion is to exempt todayâs business from the provisions of Standing Order No.40(3), so that we can debate the Bill. Yes, hon. Shill.
Thank you, Hon. Speaker, Sir. I support the Procedural Motion. It is the right thing because the Division of Revenue Bill is crucial. We regret that it has not been given the scrutiny of the committee because there are a lot of issues that we want to look at. However, I want to urge my fellow Members of Parliament that we break the record of the Tenth Parliament by passing as many Bills as possible. We should always think of putting our differences aside and serving the people of Kenya properly. Let us stop the sideshows and showing that you can bring another group down or whatever it is; at the end of the day, you will be judged by the number of Bills that you have collectively passed.
Therefore, I support the Motion.
The Member for Laikipia East.
Thank you, Hon. Speaker, Sir. I rise to support the Procedural Motion. It is very important that we move on with the business of passing the Division of Revenue Bill because the Government cannot move forward without us going through this very important exercise. Even the dear salaries that we are all talking about and the expenditure of this House will not be possible without the enactment of the Bill. The functioning of Government will equally not be possible.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I support the Motion.
Migori County Women Representative, take the Floor.
Thank you, Hon. Speaker, Sir. This lady here is Dennitah Ghati, the County Women Representative for Migori County.
I wish to support the Motion but it is very unfortunate that, even as we support this Motion, it has not really been subjected to the appropriate committee that was supposed to actually scrutinize it. Therefore, I support the Motion because Kenya has to move on; we have to move on. The people of Kenya want to move on. What I want to suggest, as I support this Motion, is for us to find amicable solutions, so that we do not have a standoff on various other Motions that we are going to move in this House. With that, I wish to ask that hon. Members take enough time to scrutinize this Bill, so that we are also able to contribute effectively in this House.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I support the Motion.
This is a Procedural Motion. Let us hear from Hon. Dalmas. However, the main debate is in the Bill.
Hon. Speaker, at this stage, you know we have left out the public participation which would have come at the Committees. We need your guidance on this. The Leader of the Majority Party should send us a summary of what any members of the public may have given with regard to this Bill. That should be tabled here so that we have access to that information as we debate the next Order.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that The Division of Revenue Bill, 2013 be now read a Second Time. The principal object of this Bill is to provide an equitable division of revenue raised by the national Government between the county governments and the national Government. This is especially for the 2013/2014 Financial Year. Secondly, this is in line with the constitutional provision of Article 201(b)(ii) and I would like to read it out. It says:- âThe public finance system shall promote an equitable society and, in particular, revenue raised nationally shall be shared equitably among national and county governments.â So, the object of this Bill is drawn from the provision of Article 201. In preparing this Bill, the national Government was guided by Article 203 of the Constitution which sets the criteria that should be used in looking at the equitable distribution of resources between the two levels of governments. That Article sets the parameters, the guidelines and the principles that should be used and how the national resources will be shared equitably. Among the principles, at the outset, is national interest. That is key. The public debt and other national obligation of the government is another principle. The needs of the national Government; that is the need to ensure that county governments are able to perform the assigned duties and functions very well, developmental and other needs of counties, stable and predictable allocation of revenue to counties is also a principle. These are the principles that are in Article 203 that set the criteria on how the resources will be allocated. In table four of this Bill, we have a memorandum that shows how the national Government will take into account the criteria in looking at the vertical division of revenue that has been raised, including the financing requirements of the county governments to make sure that both the needs of the county governments and the needs of the national Government have been taken into consideration and where a financing gap has been found, then a solution is to be found. Hon. Speaker, Sir, Article 203 of the Constitution also provides that equitable share of the revenue raised nationally is allocated to county governments. It says ânot less than 15 per cent.â From all the revenue collected by the national Government, the county allocations will be a minimum of 15 per cent. In this Bill, we will show it later on that the 15 per cent has been surpassed because it is at 25 per cent. This is again subjected to the CRA formula that has been passed by this House. At the outset, I also want to share with the House that since I tabled this Bill, there has been further consultation between the CRA and the National Treasury in order to come up with an amicable solution and a win-win situation for both levels of governments. In this regard, I will
Is he Member for Rangwe?
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I am Member for Rongo, but Chris Wamalwa has instructions from the Leader of the Minority Party to second and not me.
I am sorry, Hon. Speaker, Sir. Thank you for the clarification too. I ask the Deputy Minority Whip, hon. Chris Wamalwa to second.
Thank you, Hon. Speaker, Sir. It is not that I have the instructions from the Leader of the Majority Party on this matter. I, however, rise to second. Indeed, this Bill is very important. When you look at the functions of the county governments, we do have problems at that level because of lack of funds. To me, this is coming at the right time, but my problem is that, unfortunately, we are not going to give it the attention it acquires because of lack of committees. My humble request is that as we move on, we need to do with speed so that we can have committees. I know that Members have not even had enough time to look at this Division of Revenue Bill. I think we are not going to give it the desired discussion for that matter. Probably, that is why many Members do not want to second. However, in line with Article 202 of the Constitution which brings about the sharing of the revenue between the national Government and the county government, it is, indeed, very critical that we urge Members to look at it and scrutinize. The Constitution talks of a minimum of 15 per cent. My colleague has said that it is more than that. To me, that is a good plus. The Jubilee Government promised this thing of free maternity. However, we have seen mothers yearning for these services. That is the importance of us coming up with this law so that these services are rendered to the people. I second.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support. I do not know how many minutes I have.
The usual ten minutes.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I would like to support this Motion. However, I have to highlight a few issues that I think are of serious concern to me, this House and the whole country. Devolution is at the heart of the governance of this country. If there is any one good thing that Kenyans realized through the Constitution we have today is to have governments closer to
What hon. Ngâongâo has said shows how he would have served was he sitting in the Committee of Budget and Appropriations. But I told you that we will be seeing the need for those Committees as we move on. Thank you very much!
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I rise on a point of order under Standing Order No.127(3) and I want to read it together with the Constitution of Kenya, Article 221(4) and (5), essentially to amplify what my friend, Member for Rongo had adverted before the House. The essence of my order is to seek direction from the Speaker on how we will proceed now as we do in discussing these Estimates to receive representation from the public and public participation. This is because as you read the Constitution, in Article 221(5), in discussing and reviewing the Estimates, the Committee shall seek â it is in mandatory terms â representations from the public
Hon. Kajwang a Committee is a Committee of the House. And since in your wisdom as Members of Parliament you have chosen to operate without Committees, you cannot now require the Chair to make any decision as to what a Committee which has not been formed will do. But it is within the powers of this House to resolve that any of the existing Committees performs the functions contemplated here, by resolution of the House. But as of now, since you, as Members of Parliament and as a House, you have chosen to proceed on the basis that you do not need the Budget and Appropriations Committee or any other Committee to deal with the Budget Estimates, the Speaker cannot now replace the House with himself. So, we will proceed as I directed yesterday â to debate this Bill.
I agree with him totally. If the Budget and Appropriation Committee was in place, I am sure we would be debating this Bill with a lot of information and insights. He quickly tried to highlight all areas but, of course, the House remains as supreme in its own decision and wisdom. It has chosen to operate in the manner that it has and for the time being, that is the way it is going to be. If members of the public wanted to present views to the House, they would only write to the Clerk. That is if they desire. Remember, we have only today and tomorrow to clear this Bill and refer it to the Senate. So, really, there is nothing that the Chair can do. It is you in the plenary who may decide, actually today - remember my direction is that, by the end of business today, any member proposing amendments must submit them to the Clerk, so that tomorrow, hopefully, when the House proceeds to the Committee of the whole House, then any proposed amendments are available and you, as Members sitting in the Committee of the whole House, are able to look at each amendment. When the Leader of Majority Party will be moving the amendments--- He will also say that he will be proposing amendments. I only hope that hon. Kajwang, Anyango, Ngâongo and others, who may be desirous of proposing amendments, will begin working on them, so that you consider them. That is because whether you will have received communication from members of the public, or whether you will have walked into some bank and received it, as long as you receive the information lawfully, it should be up to the hon. Members to discuss it and make a decision. Thank you. Hon. R.K Nyamai, you have the Floor.
Thank you hon. Speaker. I rise to support this Bill. It is time we had resources allocated to the counties. Hon. Speaker, Sir, before I give my contribution in relation to this, I would like to point out that when you look at the House today, you can clearly see that the Jubilee side have availed themselves and they are ready to scrutinize the Division of Revenue Bill and give their
Well, I believe the hon. R.K. Nyamai meant the hon. Chris Wamalwa Wakhungu. Is that correct?
The hon. Member did not understand my name and even what I meant when I talked about the Committee.
Just confirm your names.
I am Wamalwa Wakhungu.
All right. Proceed hon. R.K Nyamai. That is just for information. Those are his names.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. Thank you hon. Wamalwa Wakhungu for that clarification of your name, I meant hon. Wamalwa Wakhungu; you looked very worried. You thought this Bill would not be scrutinized properly. I just wanted to clarify that when you look at the numbers right now, you can see that the Jubilee side is ready. Even though we got these documents late, we have scrutinized them, and I would urge you to fit in the kind of contributions that you are going to give. We are ready and willing to give views in relation to this. I would also like to point out that, maybe, this is the reason why the CORD side is not comfortable with us being in PIC and PAC, and thinking that hon. Members on the Jubilee side cannot exercise oversight mandate. I am saying that because I am aware of the stalemate that we are having in the House. I would like to go back to the point that I was raising in relation to devolution. I was saying that we are very keen on devolution from the national level. But it is important to also point out that we may not realize that devolution at the county level. It is not likely to happen in counties that are not homogenous in terms of the parties, and whose Members are in this House. On this issue, I want to point out to a situation where we have a governor and hon. Members, who are majority in one party and minority in one party. So, it is important for us at some point to even try and make the governors to also devolve resources equitably, because this is the spirit at the national level. That spirit should also be at the county level. I said that because Article 95(4)(b) gives us the oversight role at the national level of all other state organs. I believe that county governments are part of that. We can also read Article 95(4) and relate it to 217(2)(c) where we should be doing funds allocation in consultation with our governors. Hon. Speaker, Sir, I would like to bring to your attention that most hon. Members of Parliament in this House were not consulted in the initial public hearings that were held by our governors at the ward level. Most of them did not give enough notice, and it was also done on a
Hon. Member, pardon me again; I have not quite got your name; the hon. Member for Balambala.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. My names are Abdikadir Aden. I rise to support this Bill and I must say that my support comes with the recommendations proposed by the Leader of the Majority Party. There are a number of things; when looking at this document, which I think should have been very appropriate if we put it under the microscope in a Committee--- I would like to join my colleagues in emphasizing that this would have probably been dealt with a lot more effectively under a Committee of Budget, which would have queried some of these issues further. The increase that was just made by the Leader of Majority Party raised the unconditional allocations from Kshs198 billion to Kshs206.6 billion; this is about 33.97 per cent of the last audited revenue; it is a move closer to reality. The increase to county government equitable share from Kshs154 billion to Kshs175 billion, further raises the percentage from 25.5 per cent to 28.8 per cent. I think those are some of the recommendations that he has made; even though not good enough they are going to move us in the right direction. I want to very quickly point out one or two things. The first one is that as hon. Ngâongo said, under the conditional allocation to counties, which is Kshs43.9 billion, I think it would be very important if this house got to understand in details, what exactly the itemized portions of Kshs43.9 billion are. Without those details, it becomes very difficult. It is just a number that has to be put there, but we do not know what portions the counties will be benefiting from. Without those details, these are just numbers. It becomes very difficult. It is just a number that has to be there and we do not know what counties and in what proportions they will be benefitting from this.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, amongst some of the recommendations or amendments which I would like to put forward is that first of all under Clause 5, which is the explanation of the deviation from the recommendations of the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA)--- In Table Three the CRA recommends the remuneration for county executives and assemblies as Kshs15 billion while the National Treasury says it is Kshs7.5 billion, with an explanation. The National Treasury says under Clause C after the table that: âThese Estimates of the CRA do not reflect the new lower salary structures gazetted by the Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SRC). Treasuryâs Estimates for salaries for county executives and assembly members are the new SRC salary structure.â I think the position of this House under that gazette notice is very clear. This Bill says that it is going to comply with that particular Gazette notice which has been spoken about very widely here; this is a contentious issue and it also needs to be looked into.
What we are otherwise saying is that we will accept the SRCâs recommendations that we have been talking about very much here to lower the recommended salaries for the County Representatives, but we are saying that what she recommended for this House is not viable, or should not be so. It is something that we need to look at. It is an amendment that, in my view, needs to come in.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My names are Hon. Mburu Stephen Kinyanjui. I rise to support this Bill. My colleague, who is a senior financial expert, Hon. Ngâongo, has just said that we need to move serious amendments to this Bill. Immediately I got the Estimates of the Recurrent Expenditure, I rushed to the relevant Ministries and found that there were serious discrepancies. For example, in Nyandarua County, where I come, projects that had an allocation of about a Kshs1billion had been removed from these Estimates. These projects fall under three Ministries. So, I concur with my senior financial expert, Hon. Ngâongo. I am also very grateful to Senator Khalwale because I was elected on the promise that I would be like Senator Khalwale and others. I concur with my senior, Hon. Ngâongo, that we should move amendments to the Estimates that have been tabled before this House. I have found that the Kshs1.2 billion allocated to my projects is missing, and I do not know where that money has been taken. Those projects have kicked off; they have been awarded to consultants and are very important. They are denying Nyandarua County access to a project that has consumed Kshs4.2 billion and has been completed. However, we cannot use that facility, because of a very short stretch of about 34 kilometres which requires about Kshs1.2 billion to be done. So, Kshs4.2 billion of taxpayersâ money is not being utilized in our county because of that short link road that measures about 42 kilometres, and whose funds were relocated to other well-connected political projects in the last Parliament. So, I concur with my colleagues that we need to move amendments to make sure that Kshs1.2 billion allocated to a project in Nyandarua County is returned with immediate effect or without much ado. I would like to inform my colleagues on the other side of the House that we will play our oversight role even more than them. That is why I would kindly like to plead with our dear brothers, hon. Members, that they let us have in place the Budget Committee, which is crucial.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I wish to support this Bill because it is long overdue, and we are also looking at how the county governments will start functioning right away, because they are already in place. I believe that the initial allocation should be more than what we are looking at here, because it will, first of all, set up infrastructure in these counties. I know most of them want this because they do not have proper infrastructure. Some of these county governments have inherited huge debts from the previous local governments. Unless this matter is taken into consideration, some of this money allocated to the counties might just service these debts. So, we should also look at a way to make sure that the funds allocated will not just go into servicing debts, but will make the county governments functional. We must also look at disaster management issues. Most of these erstwhile local governments were unable to carry out disaster management when it happens. So, we must also look at how these county governments will handle emergencies when they arise. As I support this Bill, I propose that some of these considerations must be looked into, so that we allocate enough funds to enable them, from the outset, start functioning without any problem. This is because the initial allocations must be more than the future allocations because I know that we will use the money for capacity building, servicing debts and other functions that may not be seen at this time.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to support the Bill.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. I support this Bill. Devolution was at the heart of Kenyans during the constitution-making process because we wanted equitble distribution of the resources of Kenya. There are places which have been highly developed for the last 50 years, while others have been marginalized. I can see the same marginalization going on at the national Treasury. This is because they are trying to give us some rules. Up to now, we do not know the criteria they will use or they have used to equitably divide the resources. Nairobi
On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker. Our Standing Orders which my colleague is referring to are very clear on relevance to the topic of discussion. Is he in order to take us back to a matter that was ruled on by the Speaker instead of discussing a very important Bill, that is the Division of Revenue Bill? This is the Bill that is supposed to give his marginalized county money.
Your point has been made. Continue, hon. Shill.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, this is a House of rules and I am also talking for posterity. When hon. Ngâongo stands up on points of order and cites the Standing Orders he needs also to respect those Standing Orders.
Let that matter rest.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I have made my point anyway. We want the revenue to be allocated properly. The Budget Committee needs to be formed immediately not only for the purpose of this Bill, but because there are many things that will be forwarded to it for scrutiny. That way, the marginalized people and others will be given fair chances and they will benefit from fair contribution.
Hon. Members, I am sure you were informed earlier by the Speaker that we would be receiving amendments today. No amendments should be given tomorrow on the Floor during the Committee of the whole House. Hon. Members be informed that if anybody wants to move an amendment--- A lot of you have been making reference to bringing amendments to this Bill and going by Standing Order No.133 (2) no amendments shall be moved to any part of a Bill by any Member other than by a Member in charge of the Bill and unless written notification of the amendment shall have been given to the Clerk 24 hours before the commencement of the sitting at which that part of the Bill is considered by the Committee. Considering that the Bill has come late, we will not make 2.00 p.m. the deadline; we will move it to 5.00 p.m. So, anybody with amendments must brought them to the Clerk, so that they are taken to the Legal Department before they are put on the Order Paper for tomorrow.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I have very few remarks to make. I am rising to support this Bill. The problem we have in spite of the fact that we are living in a new dispensation, we still have the old mindset ruling us. Why do I say this? If you look at Article 216 that gives the CRA its mandate, it states that the CRA has the sole responsibility of making recommendations on the revenue allocation between the national Government and the devolved government. I would expect, therefore, that this Bill would borrow from the recommendations of the CRA. Even if there are deviations they must be reasonable. The deviations we are seeing here are abnormal, to say the least. Hon. Deputy Speaker, in the explanation given about the deviations, there is a lot that is wanting. For instance, we are told that the CRA has not given forth the meaning of the first criterion as outlined in Article 203, that is national interest. There is no further explanation as to how the CRA has failed to meet that obligation. The Treasury is coming out as an institution still playing the role of a big father, and trying to give donations to the county governments. That should not be the case. The Constitution clearly stipulates that there are two levels of government, which shall be independent of one another. Therefore, if the national Government is ceding or transferring functions to the devolved government the transfer of those functions must be accompanied by the transfer of adequate funds. Those adequate funds must be according to the recommendations given by the CRA, which is the sole body mandated by the Constitution to make recommendations on the allocation of funds between the two levels of government. I cannot conclude without talking about the independence of the CRA. This is one of the independent constitutional commissions. You can see a tendency, or a trend, that negates that very independence. Hon. Deputy Speaker, we have seen in the media reports of meetings held at the Office of the Deputy President. The Deputy President summoned the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) and the Treasury to purportedly discuss revenue allocation, yet the Bill that is supposed to deal with revenue allocation is already before this House. Earlier on, the Leader of the Majority Party alluded to that meeting and, in fact, he also mentioned that one of his amendments for tomorrow emanated from that meeting. If we are to be faithful to the rule of law and are to
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I am still new and so I may need to say my names, so that my friends who do not know me know me. I am Anthony Mutahi Kimaru.
Though we are discussing this Division of Revenue Bill, I would like to go back to a topic I think I should not be moving back to. I would like to urge all of us in this House, as Members of this House, to take the business that we have here quite seriously, and move it forward. Let us put aside all our differences that we may have; let us put the nation before other interests and constitute committees because they are important. Whatever else we may not agree on, I am sure we can sort it out and we move ahead. It is rather sad that we are going into this exercise without the full benefit of scrutiny. We have not had the benefit from a committee scrutinizing this Bill. I am sure there would have been a lot of input. My brother said that whatever comments have been availed to this House by the public should be availed to every hon. Member. It is going to be cumbersome; it may not produce the same result as we would have had from a committee sitting to scrutinize this Bill.
Let us have these committees constituted and then we will be able to carry out the business that we are supposed to carry out in this House in a more meaningful manner.
As I support the Bill, I would like to say that this Bill is very important. For the first time the people at the county level will set their development agenda. We may be complaining that we do not have enough revenue, but revenue is never enough at any given time, anyway. But, at least, this time round we have approximately 22 per cent of the revenue going to the counties. I am sure this amount of money can be used to transform the lives of our people down there by providing services. Marginalization should be a thing of the past. Now people will really determine their development agenda and where they want to go. It is now up to those who have been given the task, the governors and the other people down there, to make this a reality. We should not cry all the time that we do not have resources; whatever little we have, let us make good use of it and I am sure it will bring transformation at the local level.
Concerning the conditional allocation, I would like to concur with my colleagues who have spoken before that in allocating these particular funds, there should be equity, accountability and transparency. When I see at provincial and referral hospitals, I tend to imagine the drafters of the Estimates and Vote Heads might have forgotten that the provincial system is long gone. I would have expected to see county hospitals because that is what is envisaged in devolution. We would want to have in every county a referral hospital worth the name. We have Kshs10 billion for that particular function, and I believe this amount of money over time will make our referral hospitals at the county level functional and useful to our people. We do not
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I rise to support this very historic Bill, the Division of Revenue Bill, 2013. In supporting this Bill, let me say that I have heard other hon. Members saying that devolution is truly the soul, heart and core of our new constitutional dispensation. I had the privilege of co-chairing a Select Committee of this House that negotiated this Constitution. As we grappled with the structure, the framework and the architecture of the Constitution, it was manifestly clear to those of us who sat on that Committee on behalf of this House that devolution, indeed, had been at the heart of the drive and push for a new constitutional order in this country. Therefore, as this House continues the excellent work done by the Tenth Parliament in getting Chapter 11 of the Constitution on devolved government operational, we need to remain alive, acutely so, to the significance of devolution and the reality that the paradigm of governance in this country has shifted, and shifted permanently and unequivocally. As we debate this law, we need to be very alive to the constitutional principles that must guide legislation on any matter touching on devolution, and especially the issues of financing our devolved units of government.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, Sir, sometimes, those who are drafting these laws and perhaps those who are preparing these revenue sharing structures at Treasury may really not be in keeping with what I may want to call absolute fidelity to the principles in this Constitution. For the record, let us remind them and remind ourselves in this House of the principles set out in the Constitution that ought to guide the revenue allocation and division of the same between the two levels of Government.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, the Constitution at Article 203 is very clear that the criteria for sharing revenue and dividing revenue shall follow the following principles: The national interest; respecting public debt and other national obligations; the need for flexibility in responding to emergencies and other temporary needs, based on similar objective criteria; the need to ensure that county governments are able to perform the functions allocated to them. That is fundamental principle, and one that Treasury really needs to be alive to. The Constitution says that the criteria must respect the need to ensure that county governments are able to perform the functions allocated to them. The fiscal capacity and efficiency of county governments; developmental and other needs of county governments need to be looked into as well. Indeed, the Constitution did contemplate that our counties are not uniform both in terms of the geography, population, development levels and needs. Economic disparities within and among counties and the need to remedy them is an important component. It is a fundamental principle. These laws must respect the reality of economic disparities within and among counties and the need to remedy them. There is need for affirmative action in respect of disadvantaged areas and
We hope it is relevant to the subject of devolution.
Oh yes! Oh yes, hon. Deputy Speaker, it is. The good book of Ecclesiastes, Chapter three tells me the following:-
Verse one moving forward. It states as follows:- âThere is a time for everything and season for every activity under Heaven. A time to be born and a time to die; a time to plant and a time to uproot. A time to kill and a time to heal; a time to tear down and a time to build. A time to weep and a time to laugh; a time to mourn and a time to dance. A time to scatter stones and a time to gather them. A time to embrace and a time to refrain. A time to search and a time to give up. A time to keep and a time to throw away. A time to tear and a time to mend. A time to be silent and time to speak. A time to love and a time to hate; a time of war and a time of peace.â
Hon. Members, we had a time to dwell on matters and a time to engage on the political platform before the court of public opinion, and the court of public opinion made its determination. It decided that some would serve in this House as a majority, and some as a minority. That is the reality and that reality was not determined by you and me. That determination was made by the people of Kenya. So, why are we still locked in the past? The time for our political feuding is behind us. It is now time to embrace one another and move on.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I request this House that before the end of the day today, let us resolve this matter, move on and lead this country in the manner contemplated by the Constitution.
I support, hon. Deputy Speaker.
Hon. Member for Ruiru.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. I rise to support this Bill, but before I do that, I would like to say that Kenyans are more important than an individual, and Kenya is more important than one person. So, I think we should bury all our differences, so that we have what we are talking about; if we say that we want to take the money to the counties and we want to do âabcdâ but we are not trying to constitute the committees, then that will be our downfall. If we form the committees, they will help us discuss these things, so that we do not take to the counties money that is not discussed and in the process disturb their operations.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I would like to thank hon. Ababu Namwamba for having commented on how we are going to be together and forget our political past. It is now not campaign time. It is time to work, and I would also apologise to him before I say what I want to say; I saw him on television saying that CORD hon. Members had refused to serve on any committee. If I am not wrong, I think I saw something to that effect. Just forgive me if it was not you because I saw somebody like you; hon. Members, it is important---
On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker. Would I be in order just to put it on record that it was not me? Perhaps, it was my clone or photocopy. It certainly was not me, gracious lady.
Okay. That is put to rest.
My eyes saw hon. Ababu.
Put that one to rest and move on with your contribution.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I would like to say that the majority of our people out there are waiting for us to perform. You remember we promised so many things to our people, including the Members of Parliament, Governors and Senators. We have to show these people that what we are doing in Parliament is not about drama and who will feature in which committee. It is about who is working for our people. So, I think the whole thing about distributing money to the counties and the formation of committees concerns you and me. This is because when Parliament convenes, we have to have committees and bury our differences. This is because there is no way all of us can be leaders. It is also good and important to obey and to agree that as both the majority and minority, we should be together. That is why we had the Leader of the Majority Party and the Leader of the Minority Party. This is because we could not have both of them having the same numbers in this House. That is why I want us to sit down, and have the committees formed and move forward.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity.
The hon. Member for Bomet Central.
I am the hon. Member for Kitutu Chache North.
Hon. Angwenyi, please allow us to move forward. Do not decide for hon. Deputy Speaker.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker for being very firm and giving me this opportunity and not allowing anybody to grab it. I am hon. Ronald Kiprotich Tonui from Bomet Central; this is for the benefit of my colleagues who might not know me.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I want to contribute to this Bill. I am a mathematician. I am not an accountant; using my little mathematics and calculating what we have here, I have seen we are
Hon. Member for Bomet Central, in the presidential system, we have the minority and the majority. So, we do not have the Opposition. Just call them the minority party.
Thank you for that correction, hon. Deputy Speaker. I was proposing that we have these committees to be able to scrutinize these estimates. This is because we will rubberstamp something here, and it is very sad for me to be part of the rubberstamping process which is just about to happen in this House. We are all saying that we are supporting this while we know that the details are not here. At the end of the day, we will not have something which is well balanced.
During Labour Day celebrations, somebody said that there is a lot of âleakageâ when it comes to the revenue that is collected in this country but the Government did not even respond. So, we know that this Government will be able to raise more funds and concentrate on various sectors which have been highlighted in order to collect more money. I propose that they continue streamlining the collection of revenue so that we have adequate revenues to fund devolution or give the county governments.
I know that the sharing of resources between the counties is the preserve of the Senate. However, the Treasury has revised the budget proposals for each of these counties. For example, Bomet which had proposed a budget of Kshs4.6 billion has been allocated about Kshs2.9 billion which will be quite inadequate considering the need to work on various sectors in the county. I would like us to be given the details of the proposals which were made by these counties, the functions which they want to carry out and the amount of money they have been allocated.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to support this Bill with amendments.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I rise to support this Bill. However, I would like to make a few comments. As has been said by the Hon. Bishop Ababu Namwamba, the man who came to preach that the soul of the new Constitution of this country is devolution, without devolution the Constitution is deemed to have died or passed on. The amount of money that was initially allocated in this Bill was supposed to be Kshs231 billion but what we are seeing here now is Kshs198 billion with conditional allocation of Kshs43 billion. That money might not be enough to run our counties because that will be the primary vehicle we will use in future for purposes of development in this country. I would like to say that the Treasury needs to look at this. They have not specified how they intend to use even the Kshs43 billion which is conditional allocation. This is with the exception of the Kshs10 billion they have allocated to the referral hospital but it is not known how the remaining amount of over Kshs30 billion will be spent and the counties which will benefit from those funds. Hon. Deputy Speaker, if you look at the estimates for the national Government which were tabled in this House recently, you will find that the Ministry of Devolution and Planning has been allocated Kshs84 billion. I do not see the business or work that, that Ministry has that can consume Kshs84 billion. That is a Ministry that has been created for the purpose of co- ordination and nothing more. The Ministry of Planning used to be active only during the census. Other years they were allocated a budget of between Kshs2 billion and Kshs3 billion, unless this Ministry is being converted to the former Ministry of Local Government that used to run local authorities. The monies that are meant for the counties will be put under that Ministry and the
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I rise to support this Bill. I wish to thank the Treasury for giving more than 15 per cent of the budget to the counties. I want to reiterate the fact that this is a national institution. National Assembly is a national institution. It is not a devolved institution. So, we must guard ourselves. We are not used to destroying national institutions including the national executive. This Government was elected by Kenyans on the basis of their manifesto. The Government has the mandate to decide how to implement that manifesto which was accepted by Kenyans. I wish hon. Ababu Namwamba was here; I would have asked him kindly to go and lecture the CORD Members of Parliament in some Parliamentary Group (PG) meeting about the importance---
You are lucky because he has just walked in. You can tell him the message you wanted him to hear.
He has just come in. Hon. Deputy Speaker, Sir, hon. Ababu Namwamba is one of the hon. Members that I really respect. I want to make an appeal to him that he convenes a CORD PG meeting and then lectures the CORD Members of Parliament on what he lectured us in, in the morning. You need to tell them the importance of having these committees so that Parliament can perform well. Tell them the importance of the committees when it comes to implementing the devolved government. The committees allow for scrutiny and even public participation.
On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker. Is the hon. Member in order to instruct that the CORD Members of Parliament be taken through a special induction? Does this in any way mean that the Members seated on this side have not gone through that induction programme? Hon. Angwenyi should know that the hon. Members seated on this side are firm Kenyans who represent the will of very many Kenyans and who intend to take a strong position in order to have a proper oversight on the majority side.
Alright. The point has been made.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I wish Ababu Namwamba was the Leader of the Minority Party on that side. I am sure we would have a committee set already on the budget. However he is not the one. Therefore, I am just appealing as a Kenyan that this country must be run as a unitary state. We never created states in this country. There is nowhere in our Constitution the word âstatesâ features. We only upgraded our county councils to give services to our people at close range. That does not mean that the national Government cannot give services to our people. Actually the bulk of our services, that is, 34 functions---
Hon. Deputy Speaker, is it in order for the hon. Member to equate the Governor system to an upgraded local authority?
I think you are treading on very dangerous grounds, hon. Member. I do not know whether or not county governments can be equated to an upgraded local authority.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I used that expression because some of the hon. Members here seem to think that we do not have a national executive. They do not know the functions of the Treasury. We have established the Ministry of Treasury. What are its functions? Do you want the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) to take over the functions of the Treasury? Will that be correct? Do you want to take over the functions and roles of the presidency? Those are clearly stated in the Constitution, including the fact that you can give a minimum of 15 per cent of the national budget to our devolved governments. This Treasury has allocated 21 per cent. We should thank them and encourage them to give more next time they collect more money.
Hon. Angwenyi, I do not know if you believe in the spirit of devolution.
I think your sentiments---
Hon. Deputy Speaker, is hon. Angwenyi in order to insinuate that the Treasury is doing the county governments a favour by allocating them 21 per cent of the national revenue when he knows that the Jubilee Government had promised 40 per cent which they have not done? We are now discussing Jubilee revenue here!
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I need to express myself, I do not have to express their views. These are my views. This is my opinion. It is representation of my people. I hate the day I will be asked to go and kneel before a Governor to get a project done in my constituency.
Hon. Angwenyi, you are getting us into dangerous waters. The discussion here is about the division of revenue between the national Government and the county government. There are no favours being done by the Treasury.
He is drank with power, this guy!
The question is that you discuss this Bill. Stick to the topic; how you feel this Bill has divided the revenue between the two governments and not county councils.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, with due respect, I said that I am expressing my opinion. You must protect me, hon. Deputy Speaker.
You are being protected, but you are also getting yourself into a situation which may not be the thinking of the whole House and the Jubilee Government in particular.
On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker. I would like to know whether the hon. Member is in order. I believe that hon. Angwenyi who has been in this Parliament, despite the fact that he has been in the cold for five years, may not realize that we are in a new constitutional dispensation. I would like to know whether hon. Angwenyi is the advocate of the devil in this Parliament in terms of allocation of revenues that we are talking about such that he is defending the Government.
Hon. Angwenyi, finish your contribution and please stick to the discussions.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, if I am to borrow from others what I should say in this House, then I do not want to continue speaking.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, the spirit in this House definitely is that of taking more resources to the counties and I am looking specifically at the Equalization Fund. While I respect and appreciate the parameters and the formula used to allocate resources to counties, I still think Kshs3.5 billion for the Equalization Fund is little looking at the districts that will receive it and the disparities in development between those counties and the rest of Kenya. The Equalization Fund needs to be increased.
Looking at the emergencies, the magnitude and the frequency of emergencies in Kenya, it is alarming and allocating only Kshs5 billion is little. We had money allocated for elections; Kshs17 billion, do we anticipate by-elections or what? That is too much! Some of that money should go to emergencies. Some of that money should also go to the counties. I want to appreciate what hon. Ababu said in quoting the principles of revenue division. Looking at the fiscal capacity, the human resource capacity and the efficiency of counties before the allocation of these funds, the Treasury must ensure that the counties and the human resource in those counties will be able to effectively utilize the resources. On emergencies, currently the country is experiencing floods. We have just come from droughts and there are landslides. So let us consider emergencies as something important.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I stand here to support the Motion. I come from a constituency that is different from another, that is Embu. We have an area of dry land and other parts are in highlands. I know that this budget is going to be very useful to our county and the whole country. I want to say that it is not enough looking at the counties that we come from. I wish we would have increased this budget so that our people can benefit. Right now, we have the problem of food security, floods and insecurity in our country. These need more money for emergency to reach our people. I know that we are going to pass this budget without going through a committee. I know very well that it will not be a very good thing for this august House, with such hon. Members, not to agree on very small things. I know campaigns were very difficult. This is a small issue and I think hon. Members of this august House should plead as I plead with our people, Members from the Minority Party and the Majority Party to sit together, especially our two leaders, so that we have the committees constituted.
Everybody is worried. I have received very many calls from rural areas asking what is happening to the august House. We have very good people here, why can we not agree so that our counties benefit? This will also benefit our people. Some of us represent thousands of people who are waiting for us. We should agree for the benefit of our people. I stand here to support this Motion and plead that we add money to our counties. We know that the money allocated is very little, yet the demands are very high and the resources are not enough.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I need to first and foremost remind myself and other hon. Members in the House here that if at all there is a time when public opinion for this House has been at one of its lowest levels, it is at this particular moment. The laws of economics have it that today we are seated here trying to debate, go through and pass a piece of legislation that shall be the one that shall lead the lives of millions of Kenyans and we have done this without this document being properly scrutinized by committees. This is, indeed, a shame and we need to realize that respect and honour is not a title but we need to act as hon. Members for us to deserve to be taken as honourable. Today - I am afraid the hon. Member who said that we need to change our Leader of Minority Party is not here - we might as well have the same opinion that the majority party needs to change their leader as well. We do not need at this very moment lessons as to how individual parties and coalitions need to govern
On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker.
There is a point of order.
Deputy Speaker, I want to know---
Just have a seat while you are raising your point of order.
I want to know if the hon. Member is making his maiden speech or if he is making a political statement because the Motion before us is on devolution and, clearly, it is about division of revenue on devolution.
But why are you asking him if it is his maiden speech?
Because I believe that he was trying to make a political statement on this.
That is not a point of order. Just continue hon. Nassir.
Thank you very much. For the record, yes, it is my maiden speech and, maybe, for the record as well, next time, if you wish to cut someoneâs speech on a point of order, it will be nice to introduce yourself as well.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I would like to relay this message to the Majority Party in Parliament; the natural laws of economics state that you cannot be the one to account for yourself. We are dealing with public funds and it is only responsible for the majority to accept that the minority has a job to do in Parliament. It is our job to ensure that we scrutinize and go through the figures that have been presented by the Government for the sake of Kenyans. I wish to say this again: Today, if we had a select committee in place, we would have been able to know how the Ministry of Devolution will account for Kshs84 billion. This Parliament has been given Kshs16 billion and we have not been able to get an answer as to why that is the case. We are now having commissions being given an excess of Kshs8.7 billion. The difference between last yearâs budgets for the commissions is close to Kshs2.6 billion. The difference between last yearâs budget for Parliament is about Kshs1.5 billion. I seriously doubt whether any hon. Members in this House today will be able to give an answer to that and yet, we have to pass this document by tomorrow. That is how serious we are in the Opposition. Again, I urge hon. Members because truly, we cannot know where we are going until we know where we are. Where we are right now in the eyes of the public as Parliamentarians is totally at the gutter! Thank you very much, hon. Deputy Speaker.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker for recognizing me. I have been suffering for three weeks. I stand to support this Bill with amendments. Probably, this is the most
Yes the hon. Member for Galole.
Thank you hon. Deputy Speaker. My names are hon. Hassan Dukicha, Member of Parliament for Galole, Tana River County. I rise to support this Bill, but I have these few remarks to make. The Jubilee Government promised in their manifesto that 40 per cent of the national income will be put in the devolved government, and now the question is: If the county government or the governor is going to pay salaries for their staff with this little money, how come places that have been marginalized since Independence - like Galole - do not have even one institution or college? We do not have tarmacked roads. We have never seen electricity. There is no infrastructure at all. I think the allocation of revenue is just too little. In my place, and this seems very funny hon. Members, we travel on donkeys. That is our mode of transport. For 100 kilometers from Hola to Waldena, we move by donkeys, especially during this rainy season. This allocation here is not enough at all.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, with regard to committees, let us put our differences aside. The interests of the people of Kenya are much more important than us. Hon. Members, Kenyan people have given us the mandate and they are watching us. Let us be responsible, regardless of our political affiliation. Let us have sober minds and sit together as brothers and leaders and sort out our problems in this House.
Thank you hon. Deputy Speaker. I beg to support.
Hon. Grace Kipchoim.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. My names are Grace Kipchoim, Member of Parliament for Baringo South.
I rise to support the Bill and cite some few areas with discrepancies. When you look at the Bill, you can see the allocation to the National Intelligence Service (NIS). But a few days ago, we have been seeing throughout the country problems of insecurity. When you look at the
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. My names are Hon. Francis Kigo Njenga, the Member for Gatundu North. I want to support this Bill with reasons. First, revenue allocation requires clarity, and clarity has to be sought. When I went through this Bill, I found that the national Government takes about Kshs720 billion. Reconciling that is the Fourth Schedule which is attached to the Constitution of the Republic of Kenya, I find clarity of purpose. I have heard hon. Members talk about roads being constructed and I can see the trunk roads that go to the Central Government. I can also see the county roads that go to the counties. In a country with scarce resources, getting Kshs198 billion and leaving Kshs720 billion to the national Government, there is clarity of purpose. The Revenue Allocation Bill in this House is in good spirit.
However, an hon. Member has spoken about increasing the rate even to 40 per cent. This promise was made by Jubilee. However, I think that even the Jubilee Manifesto is equally progressive as we shall be progressive in the future Bills. We cannot just wake up one day and increase the rate from the minimum threshold of 15 per cent to 40 per cent of what we are supposed to allocate to the counties. That will make the country not take care of its national interest.
I have looked at the basis under which this was allocated. I have been in the accounting profession for over two decades. I know that for a good allocation, you have to harmonize the formula. In Mathematics, the basis that is used in your fractions has been harmonized well. For example, this Bill removes things like contractual obligation. I have looked at the public debts which have been removed to arrive at the revenue that we are supposed to allocate the county governments. I mean the Kshs44 billion which has been removed to arrive at the revenue that we
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. My names are Suleiman Murunga, the Member for Kimilili. I rise to interrogate and support some of the proposals in this Bill. I would like to say that some of the Estimates that have been prepared are way below what Kenyans expected. This is especially with the allocations made to the Teachers Service Commission and health services. We have not provided enough money to these areas and Kenyans look forward to Parliament to make sure that whatever is being allocated is sufficient enough to support the services that we intend to provide.
The Jubilee Government, in its Manifesto, guaranteed health services to all Kenyans and yet the amount of money that has been provided for in the Estimates is way below the services that should be offered. Therefore, like the previous speaker has said, we needed to allow this Bill to be interrogated by the Committee before it is brought to the plenary for us to discuss it. At the moment, if we pass this Bill as it is, we are bound to make serious mistakes and Kenyans will not forgive us for that. So, hon. Deputy Speaker, I would like to urge my colleagues to agree that we form the necessary Committees of the House so that matters that are supposed to be brought before the various Committees are interrogated at that juncture before they come to the plenary. Hon. Deputy Speaker, I support the Motion.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this very important Bill. To me, this is the most important Bill in this House this year. It is because this Bill will determine whether our county governments will start and run or they will become âkaputâ. This Bill will basically lay the foundation for the much sought after devolution. That is why we must ensure that it sets a good basis for devolution. I am appalled by the fact that we have a Bill before us that purports to divide revenue between the national Government and the county governments and yet, it leaves out very important details. At Page 12 of the Schedule in the Bill which shows comparison of recommendations between the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) and the national Treasury, you will realize that there are no figures we can use from the relevant Commission. The figures or recommendations by CRA are missing. We are being told that they are not available. It is CRA that is supposed to give us those figures. How are we supposed to compare? In law, when you give exceptions, it is not supposed to be the norm. The Treasury has decided to use the better part of this Bill to give reasons why it is running away from what the CRA has proposed. We need to get the figures as proposed by CRA. The Bill goes further to say that with regard to county vertical allocation for 2013/2014, CRA started with a base of Kshs203 billion. We are not being told what figures, measures and proposals there are from CRA. We must respect our institutions by allowing them to carry out their roles. When they do that, then it has to be judicious and legal. We cannot allow Treasury to bring a Bill before us that flies in the face of the Constitution. We do not have figures from CRA! Devolution does not merely mean transferring the functions of employing Government officers from the national level to the county governments. Much of the money reflected here is for recurrent expenditure. It will be used for employment of staff at the county government. We do not see money that will help the county governments carry out their revenue mandate. Hon. Deputy Speaker, if you look at the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution, it is very clear. The mandate of the county government is very large; it is huge! However, they cannot do
On a point of order, hon. Deputy Speaker. Is the Member in order to purport that the rules that we have are not serving this House and that is why we do not have the relevant Departmental Committee to deliberate on the Division of Revenue Bill? At the same time, we have not seen any attempt in form of an amendment to the Standing Orders from the minority side to justify their position.
Are you in order? Are you saying that the rules are not there, or is it that we are not following the rules?
Hon. Deputy Speaker, if I may go slowly, I only said that rules are handmaidens of justice, but where they interfere with the carriage of justice, then we must allow ourselves to negotiate and discuss the rules so that they work for us. That is all I meant. I think that is even how we interpret laws in courts so that where rules are made absurd, the persons looking at them must bend them so that they fit the circumstances. I did not talk about Committees, but now I will talk about them. The fact is that we need to have these Committees in place. This matter cannot be gainsaid. This Constitution establishes both minority and majority. Some of us are still held up in the hangovers of the past. Let us work for Kenyans in a manner that will enable us achieve the purpose of this Constitution. You are not going to tell us that you are going to use the tyranny of numbers to pass things you want. No! Let us be Members of Parliament and not Members of Jubilee. Let us all act as such. CORD, where I belong, has accepted that its Members will not join Committees not just for the sake of it, but for the sake of making them work for this country. I thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker and also beg to support.
The hon. Member for Dagoretti!
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I would like to first of all encourage my brother to draft some amendments to the Standing Orders instead of making all those pleas, so that they can be debated on the Floor of the House. I would like to support this Motion and I will start by saying that we, as the Jubilee Coalition, have promised to create employment for our youth. To achieve that means that we must invest in infrastructure. We have said that we want to turn this region, our country to be a logistics hub. We cannot achieve that if, in the investment of revenue that we have - we are under-investing in infrastructure - for example, our port, road network and railway. We also have to have serious elaborate investments in energy. You are also aware that we are trying to turn Nairobi into a hub. I do not think all that can be achieved by under- investing in some of the functions that have been left for the Central Government. In support of this Motion, I am suggesting that we should seriously think of how we can invest in the next ten years. For us to achieve Vision 2030, we have to seriously think of how to make energy affordable. We can sit here trying to make political statements. Maybe, you want to be seen by your constituents that you are talking about allocation of revenue. But what we need to know is to make sure that this country will grow by 10 per cent; consistently for ten years.
We cannot achieve this if we do not have priority projects as a Government so that, in another ten years, we are not talking about the size of this cake. We are dwelling so much on how to divide the cake and not how to enlarge it. I would urge hon. Members to try and ensure that we formulate fast Bills that are going to make sure that our youth - like in Dagoreti South - get full employment. In this Division of Revenue Bill, we are talking about Kshs145 billion and a total of Kshs198 billion. I would like to remind most hon. Members here that some of our annual revenue, our GDP, is even smaller than the private companies in the USA. The issue is how we can expand this economy, ensure that we are not talking about Kshs198 billion or Kshs145 billion, but about over Kshs20 trillion. That is the way we will achieve all those things that we want to do as a country.
As the previous hon. Member has said, it is about time that we do not just oppose things for the sake of it. Let us rise above those political party hard-line positions and we do what is right for the country. I was just wondering that we are talking about Kshs148 billion to the
Thank you Hon. Deputy Speaker. My name is John Sakwa Bunyasi, Member of Parliament for Nambale. I rise to support and interrogate this proposed Bill. In the Presidential Speech, it was quite clear that the attainment of double-digit growth was one of the core goals and we know that there is planning of growth in the Budget. That will enable things to happen. So, it is very important that, as we look at this Bill, we should also say that it should be the kind of budget that will provide the services that can contribute significantly to double-digit growth. I am not quite sure about that because I do not have enough information. What I would like to say here is that let us not make the assumption that what goes to the counties is a waste and that what remains at the central Government is useful. Waste occurs at both levels. But, also, as the resources go to the counties, they are better distributed across the country. One of the problems with the double-digit growth is that it does not tell us about distribution. This country has gone through phases of development where growth has been geographically concentrated because of deliberate Government policies. So, anything that goes towards re-distributing it more broadly using the resources is helpful. We shall allow the counties in that process as much leverage as possible to determine locally where the priorities actually lay and minimize what comes from Nairobi as pre-determined expenditure. I feel it is critically important that we interrogate seriously these proposed allocations, even in the absence of the underlying assumptions that they are not yet available to us. But it is quite clear, when you see the direction of change, that, that probably is what is intended to provide support. Hon. Deputy Speaker, I would like to re-iterate the earlier comment that has been made that, for instance, the growth of Parliamentary expenditure allocation is only 9.2 per cent. Whereas Parliament, even in terms of physical numbers--- If we just get the change in numbers of Parliamentarians--- It only has the quantum of expenditure that is implicit in that change. It has grown by a factor of nearly 40 per cent and the allocation has increased by only 9 per cent. That is not going in the right direction. Secondly, I think the growth in the Judiciary expenditure to me is inadequate because people are not getting justice. I assume there is a capacity issue in the Judiciary side. I hope that,
Yes, hon. Sakuda.
Thank you, hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this Bill. As has been said earlier, efforts have been made to have money go to the grassroots â the level of wananchi, as is the case with the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF); we want to see our people served well. That is why I have risen to support this Bill. However, I think issues have been raised about the allocation. When you compare it with the national allocation of about 78 per cent, and then you have the 21 to 22 per cent going to the counties, it begs the question: Do we have the capacity at this level to even suggest an increase towards the county allocation? My hope will be that through the relevant Government Ministries, the local mwananchi will be able to participate fully and enjoy some of the development benefits that we have.
For instance, I come from Kajiado County which, unfortunately, was left out of the Equalisation Fund. We see that as an oversight because when you look at the development in Kajiado County and compare it to other counties, it should have been in the category where the roads and the schools in rural areas need urgent upgrading. It is actually a shame that we have been told to wait for another three years before a review can be done. So, if we have an opportunity in this House to really recommend that counties get extra funds, we know that
will be able to get the basic services they want; they should be able to access them.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you very much. I was only trying my luck because I have been standing for so many times and nobody has seen me. It has taken me a lot of energy but thank you very much.
I want to contribute to this Bill and I am actually in support of it. However, before I go to this Bill, I want to say something about this House that I have observed over the last few days. Hon. Members on the other side of the House have really treated us like if we are Jubilee zombies, and whatever Jubilee wants us to do, we will do exactly that. I want to state here that some of us are very independent-minded people. We came here to represent our people and not to represent parties.
Order, hon. Member. You will have a balance of nine minutes when this House resumes this debate.
It is now time to adjourn the business of the House. The House stands adjourned until this afternoon at 2.30 p.m.
The House rose at 12.30 p.m.