Hon. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:-
THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs on requests of Statements by hon. Saney, hon. Koyi and hon. Wandayi laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 25th June, 2013.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, indulge me because today I have misplaced my card. Pursuant to Standing Order No.44(1), on behalf of the House Business Committee (HBC), I rise to give the following Statement regarding the business appearing before the House next week. The House is expected to consider the Report of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs on the vetting of the Solicitor- General. The House will also consider the First Reading of the Finance Bill, 2013. The House will also continue with debate on ordinary Motions proposed by hon. Members and finally, the HBC will meet on Tuesday, 2nd July, 2013, at the rise of the House to consider the business for the rest of the week. I now wish to lay this Statement on the Table of the House.
The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
The Member who sought the Statement, hon. Clement Wambugu.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. First is to thank the Leader of Majority Party for giving us that Statement although it took a bit too long and it created a lot of anxiety even to the members of the families. You realize that the said deportees was supposed to have travelled on flight No.KQ532, but thereafter, I think the Government decided to charter a plane to take the deportees later. The clarification I
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Only to correct that there is no Leader of Government here. Hon. Wamunyinyi.
Francis Chachu Ganya.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I want to thank the Leader of Majority Party for the response that he has given. We also do appreciate that those Kenyans are safe and, hopefully, they will be back home soon. This is a war on drugs and any Kenyan of goodwill; any leader of goodwill must support our Government in the fight against drug barons. We have been told that many drug barons or people dealing with drugs have been deported from this country, other than the ones who were flown to Nigeria. My question to the Leader of Majority Party is: What plans do you have to ensure that those drug barons will not fight back? We should ensure that even Kenyans who are associating with those drug lords in any form and shape are also brought to book? Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir.
Let us not overload the Leader of Majority Party. When we ask him what plans he has, he will tell us about his plans. He is a Member of Parliament like you.
Hon. Speaker, Sir---
Thank you, hon. Ganya. It is okay. Your point is noted. I just wanted to point that out. Yes, hon. Manje.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. We take drugs with a lot of seriousness in this country. I want to let this House know that I am very serious on drugs
Is that part of the clarification you are seeking?
Yes, hon. Speaker.
Maybe, you want to seek clarification on whether the Leader of Majority Party has also contributed a portion of his salary!
The Leader of Majority Party has said there were several deportees that were in the plane. According to us, that is the same thing that has made the Government of Nigeria---
One second, hon. Manje. The hon. Member talking to hon. Angwenyi! That one! What you did is not permissible; you can see the way--- You go to the door; not there. Continue, hon. Manje.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. The reason that was given by the Nigerian Government was that the pilot was unable to account for the number of passengers in the plane. It also appears that the Leader of Majority Party did not clarify the number of passangers who were in the plane when it landed in Nigeria. Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir.
Yes, hon. Munyaka.
Thank you hon. Speaker, Sir. I want to also thank the Leader of Majority Party for that Statement. I want him to inform this House--- You know that drug trafficking is a serious crime. In fact, in many countries, it is punishable by the death penalty. Were those three suspects charged in a court of law in Kenya? If they were not charged in court, can he give us the reasons why they were deported without being charged in Kenya? We have a legal system which should also punish people who commit crimes.
Thank you hon. Speaker, Sir. I want to thank the Leader of Majority Party for the Statement that he has given. I want to say that in the Statement, the Leader of Majority Party said that those are known drug barons. Those people have lived in this country, carried on with their business and have been feted for quite a number of years. I want the Leader of Majority Party to tell the House whether it was at the insistence--- Was it because the President said that we were going to fight drugs and drug barons in this country that people acted? Was that a normal occurrence and people who are concerned with law enforcement knew it? It was only after the President talked that they acted. Is that something that will be happening every time we have a problem in this country? Thank you.
Yes, Leader of Majority Party.
Thank you hon. Speaker, Sir. Hon. Wambugu asked whether the Government will pay for the chartered aircraft. I believe there was a contract between the airline and the Kenyan Government for service. I am sure the contract is binding. So, I think there was a contract. Secondly, on the medical bills, once the crew and the Kenyan officials come, the Government will do what is necessary. On whether Mr. Chinedu and others--- From the media, we know there was only the former wife of Mr. Chinedu – Ms. Akinyi. If there are others and they are Kenyans, then I am sure once we have picked the head, then his family must look for other business; not the business that Mr. Chinedu and company were doing. Hon. Wamunyinyi asked about legal business. Our country is open to foreign investment. There are many foreigners who are doing legal and good business as per our laws and as per the Constitution. This Government will only look for those who are involved in illegal business. Hon. Ganya asked whether they will fight back. I am sure that question is there for the Government. The Government must be ready. It is the Government that has the problem as per the Constitution. The Government is ready to fight all drug dealers and those who are doing illegal business in our country. Hon. Manje has said that 10 per cent of his salary has been set aside to fight drugs. That is very good and I hope other hon. Members will increase that to 20 per cent of the salary that was given by Ms. Sarah Serem. He has also asked about the number of passengers on that chartered plane. Of course, there were five Nigerians, seven Government officials and five airline crew. Then there was hon. Munyaka. I am sure Mr. Chinedu has so many pending cases. His deportation was within the law; a document was signed by the then acting Cabinet Secretary for Interior and Coordination of National Government under Section 43(1) of the Kenyan Citizenship and Immigration Act, 2011. It gives powers to the Minister for Interior and Coordination of National Government to deport any person, either indefinitely or for a period, and who is viewed as a threat to the interests of our country. Finally, hon. Abdi Mohammed has asked whether those drug barons were known. Yes, I want to confirm that Mr. Chinedu has lived in Kenya for 17 years. It is only the Jubilee Government, in its manifesto, that says it is going to fight drugs and illicit brews. So, we have started. We will not ask what retired Presidents Kibaki, Moi and the late Kenyatta did not do. Judge us on our promises. We said we will fight drug barons and remove them from our country. That is what the Jubillee Government is doing. So, hon. Mohamed, you can ask the previous Governments what they never did. But this Government is going to deal with drug dealers.
Yes, hon. Konchella.
Thank you hon. Speaker, Sir. I also want to thank the Leader of Majority Party for this Statement; I particularly thank His Excellency the President for taking a very bold decision. We will now deal with drug dealers and traffickers, including those who practise pornography and other in-human acts in our nation.
I would like to encourage hon. Members to think and consider bringing Bills to Parliament. I can see that there is a huge desire to debate this matter. Let hon. Nyikal seek a clarification.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. Whereas I appreciate that a good action was taken to deport those people because they are either known or suspected to be drug barons, I wish to seek clarification as to why the due process was not followed. We are informed that Kenyans were detained in Nigeria because due process was not followed. Their papers were not right and the Nigerian officials were not involved. That has cost the Government a lot of money. Secondly, it is a policy that deportees are transported by means of their choice? We were told that one of them refused to board a regular flight and because of that, the Government chartered a flight. That is an extremely expensive way of deporting persons. Officers should take caution to protect public funds.
I would want a further clarification as to why they were not tried. That is important because if they went through a trial process, more information would have come out. Drug business is not a single person business. Many people are involved and if we are fighting drug trafficking, we must look for all the persons and organizations that are involved. A trial process would definitely review that information. The Leader of Majority indicated that there are known associates and mentioned one famous Akinyi. That means that there are others. Is any action being taken to follow up all those associates? Once again, if we are trying to fight drugs, any person who is involved must be followed, investigated and brought to book, if necessary.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just want to get a clarification from the Leader of Majority Party. Is it now official Government policy that future deportations will by-pass the court process as has been the case with the Chinedu saga? Two, the Leader of Majority has stated that Chinedu and his associates have lived in Kenya for more than 17 years and that they were known drug barons. It is not possible for a foreigner to live in Kenya as a drug baron for all that time if he does not have protectors at the highest possible levels of the Government. I want him to clarify whether it is not because Chinedu was about to expose his protectors that he was deported abruptly. Thirdly---
Are you saying that you want to clarify yourself?
I am asking him.
You appear to know more and that you said you want to clarify.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I have an interest in this matter because Mr. Chinedu’s former wife is my constituent. Ms. Akinyi is my constituency in Ugunja. I want to be assured that in the process of covering up for Chinedu’s mis-deeds, no arbitrary action will be taken against my constituent, who is Akinyi and her property. Finally, I want to understand the Government’s intention in so far as protecting Chinedu’s lawfully acquired property wherever it is in Kenya is concerned, so that in future, we are not accused of deporting people in order to grab their property as it is common in this country.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Leader of Majority Party for his detailed report. I am grateful that this sordid saga is now over and our Kenyan compatriots have been released and are on their way back home. However, it is disturbing to note the increase in drug trafficking and use in our country. In the latest US Report on money laundering, it is stated that Kenya is one of the major narcotic trafficking countries in the world. The case of Chinedu is just the tip of the iceberg. This is a problem that is deep rooted and it poses a major threat to our security and wellbeing. I welcome the action against foreigners like Chinedu, but what are we doing about the many Kenyans who are involved in that business, and some of them in senior positions? I would like to ask the Leader of Majority Party whether this is just an ad hoc knee-jerk decision on the part of the Government or it has a more elaborate policy to tackle this major problem and uproot it in our country.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, hon. Konchella was at one time the Minister for Immigration and is more familiar with the Deportation Act. He has said that, as a country, we must amend it. I will pass that message to the Cabinet Secretary in charge of immigration and the Attorney-General. I am sure we will do that to make sure that our future generations are safe from drugs. In response to the issue raised by Prof. Nyikal, due process was followed as far as the Kenyan laws are concerned. The issue on whether the Nigerian Government was also aware, we have not consulted our High Commission. Two, whether they knew the status of their own son; their son did not have a Nigerian passport. That is the reason he failed to do legal business in other countries; he was interested in killing children or people of those countries. We told them, as far as we were concerned, that was their son whether he had
How about Wanjala?
Hon. Speaker, I do not know who Wanjala is.
Hon. Shabir Shakeel, that is not the way to communicate. Surely!
Hon. Speaker, with regard to Akinyi’s property; her own property in her name is safe. But if there is any property which she co-owned with Chinedu illegally, that again comes to legal considerations. How she will set out and how she will share that property is a story for another day. With regard to what hon. Yusuf has asked, yes, why do we have drug trafficking in our country? One thing we need to understand is that our country is a hub. It is a very important country strategically. Our Kenya Airways connects to each and every destination within the African continent and that is why many people want to use it. Hon. Speaker, Sir, hon. Prof. Nyikal asked: Why not Kenya Airways? There is a standard for all airlines. The safety of those passengers is in place. The manner in which Chinedu behaved when he was booked on Kenya Airways, flight number 536, economy seat number 33, was a threat to the other passengers. Maybe, a constituent from Prof. Nyikal’s Constituency who was aboard that flight--- For the security of the passengers on that KQ flight and for the international standards on those kind of deportees, the Kenya Government felt obligated morally and legally to charter Chinedu and his cohorts out of the country.
Hon. Speaker, it was not expensive. The money we used as a country is not more than the dignity and respect we want to uphold for this country. So, Chinedu made the
Hon. Members, I want to give some directions regarding the next orders, before we move on to the next Order. As you are aware, yesterday we continued with debate past normal Sitting time. As a consequence, the Motion by hon. George Kaluma on the Teachers’ strike was again not reached. I think, as I indicated, quite a number of your colleagues also agreed with him that it is an urgent matter of national importance. Therefore, I would like to direct that the Motion takes place as soon as the House concludes debate on the business shown on Order No. 16, which is Committee of the whole House. So, as soon as that is concluded, the next business will be the Motion for Adjournment of the House. Hon. Kaluma does not have to move that the House adjourns. Therefore, it means that the Motion by hon. Johnson Sakaja on the County Allocation of Revenue Bill; which was also raised as an urgent matter of national importance, cannot be reached. You cannot discuss the two of them on the same day. So, we will give priority to the one by hon. George Kaluma. In any event, it came before the one by hon. Sakaja. Hon. Sakaja, you may have to raise yours again on Tuesday next week. Hon. Members, for the convenience of the House, I would like to make the following communication that, before we proceed to the next Order, I wish to request hon. Members with amendments or proposed amendments to the Appropriations Bill 2013 and Order No.16 to consult the Mover of the Bill so as to agree on the manner of discharging the amendments. This will ease the process when the House resorts to Committee of the whole House later to consider the same Bill. This is normal because some of the hon. Members who may have proposed amendments may not be aware. It is easier. I have looked through the amendments, some of them appear similar and it is only fair that way. So, that you do not keep on repeating one thing, you can agree on the manner of disposing those proposed amendments. I encourage hon. Members to do so. Thank you. Next Order! Let us have the Chairperson of Committee on Selection, who is the Leader of Majority Party.
Hon. Barre Shill, please do not engage the Leader of Majority Party. He is the one who is supposed to be moving this Motion.
Hon. Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion: THAT, notwithstanding the resolutions of the House of 16th May, 2013 regarding the appointment of Members to respective Committees, this House further approves the following changes to the membership of the Select Committees. Hon. Speaker, it is a long list running from one to 19. This is in line with---
Order, Members! It is important that you listen to what the Leader of Majority Party is saying. This is because several of you have come to see me regarding this particular Motion. It is, therefore, important that you pay attention so that you are able to contribute from a position of information and knowledge. Proceed, Leader of Majority Party. The hon. Bichage purports to be rising on a point of order, but he had already conveyed to me that he lost his card. I would also like to encourage hon. Members to keep the cards safely. Do not carry them all over. Some of the places that Members may go may not be very safe.
Hon. Speaker, as you are aware I have just come back from a trip. I will make sure that the card is available on Monday. I am talking about this list because there seems to be a lot of serious problems within the---
What is your point of order?
My point of order is that this list is irregular, hon. Speaker. As you are aware you ruled that---
Now, resume your seat. The Motion is yet to be properly before the House so that you then can contribute. You are actually not rising on a point of order.
Yes, it is a very serious matter.
Leader of Majority Party!
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I think we need a second induction. Hon. Members are aware that they will raise their sentiments after the Motion is moved. However, hon. Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, notwithstanding the resolution of the House of 16th May, 2013 regarding the appointment of Members to respective Committees, this House further approves the following changes to the membership of the Select Committees:- 1. The Honourables Abbas Ahmed Ibrahim and Charles Geni Monga’re be appointed Members of the Public Accounts Committee; 2. The Hon. Isaack Mwaura, M.P, to be appointed a Member of the Budget and Appropriations Committee; 3. The Hon. Regina Nthambi Muia, MP to move from the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security to the Departmental Committee on Energy, Communication and Information; 4. The Hon. Jessica Mbalu, MP to be appointed a Member of the DepartmentalCommittee on Environment and Natural Resources; 5. The Hon. Timothy Moseti Bosire, M.P. to move from the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Cooperatives to the Departmental Committee on Transport, Public Works and Housing;
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I second.
Hon. Speaker, I would like to comment on this issue because I have had a few problems with the Committees that I serve in. If you look at the list at Number Six, you will see the name John Munuve Mati. This is the only hon. Member who has been removed from all the Departmental Committees. There is nobody else. I have also found out that natural justice was not followed. Secondly, my party leader has moved me from the Departmental Committee on Energy, Communication and Information which I prefer to keep and dropped me from the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs. He gave that slot to hon. Muia who comes from his village, obviously married elsewhere. The reason we got is that hon. Muia is the Member of Parliament for Konza. If every Member had to be in a Committee that involves him, all Members here would be in the Committee that deals with water issues because we all drink water. We would all be in the Committee that deals with agriculture because we all cultivate somehow. All of us would be in every Committee. Whereas I accept the fact that parties have a right to move Members of Parliament from one Committee to the other, natural justice must be followed or at least be seen to be followed, especially in this House. If a political party – I am the Member for Mwingi North elected on Wiper ticket – strives that its member takes the leadership of this country and does not practise democracy within its ranks, obviously that is very wrong. Hon. Speaker, I find this list in relation to me very dictatorial and oppressive simply because there is a loophole in the Standing Orders that gives some party leaders draconian powers and, in fact, powers that should not be held by any particular Member, especially in relation to another Member of Parliament who has been elected. I wrote two letters to my political party and your good Office, but not one was acknowledged. I never got any response addressing my concerns about being removed from both Departmental Committees that I was comfortable serving in. I realize that when a dog eats its puppies, there are never sympathizers sending condolences to the dog. I stand here as a victim of this kind of dictatorship. I rest my case and hope and pray that this list is actually rejected so that the party can convene a Parliamentary Group meeting so that it decides on who is most qualified to be in what Committee.
Hon. Members, allow hon. Bichage to contribute. At least this one does not have dogs and puppies.
Hon. Speaker, I do not know about Jubilee but I can tell you that we have a problem in CORD.
Order! Order, hon. Members!
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I was elected to this House after a struggle of about 30 years. Having come here, I give my preference to the party. I am not boasting but in this country, you cannot count from one to ten before you get my name in the list of experts in transport logistics and regional integration. I have offered my service in this country. When I came here, I wrote a letter and indicated that my priority number one would be to serve in the Committee responsible for transport matters but I was put in the Committee responsible for energy, without being consulted. We were told that every hon. Member would have a chance to serve in at least two committees. I wrote to the Leader of Minority Party and the Minority Whip and told them that I wanted my second Committee to be the one responsible for regional integration.
Order! Order, all of you! You have no business intimidating anybody. Every hon. Member has equal rights in this House. Hon. Bichage, the Member for Kikuyu is on a point of order. So, resume your seat. You will continue later. What is your point of order, hon. Ichung’wa?
Thank you, hon. Speaker. My point of order is on the question we are debating. The hon. Member has already pointed out that this list is neither from the Speaker’s Office nor the Office of the Leader of Majority Party. It is a matter for parties and their memberships to agree on. I am on record having said in this House that there is a problem with the leadership on the CORD side. I am just wondering whether they are in order to debate their leadership problems in this House rather than sort out their issue of ‘dogs eating puppies’ elsewhere, so that we can deal with the serious business of whether to pay or not to pay the teachers. They should not be debating their issues of puppies and dogs on the Floor of this House. Therefore, I would like to request the Leader of Minority Party and the Minority Whip to, kindly, consult and provide leadership to their membership, so that we can stop wasting the time of the House on trivial issues of puppies and dogs.
Thank you, hon. Speaker.
Point of order! Point of order!
Order! Order! The hon. Member who has just spoken was on a point of order.
Proceed, hon. Bichage.
Hon. Speaker, the Leader of Minority Party had told me personally that I could start attending meetings of the Committee on regional integration. So, this morning, I attended a meeting of the Committee, under the chairmanship of hon. Kajuju. However, my name is not on this list, which means that I attended the Committee meeting illegally. I propose that CORD withdraws its Members from this list, so that we can do internal housekeeping before the names are brought back. Otherwise, we cannot have a few people controlling Members of Parliament, who have been elected from constituencies to represent Kenyans in this House. We are discussing matters transparently. So, I request that this list be withdrawn for parties to consult and forward new names.
Hon. Regina, as you walk in, please, note that the rules of this House are not like that. It shows that you do not even know where you are.
Hon. Members, it is important that we appreciate the concerns being raised by our colleagues. I have said in the past that it is always good that people consult. If this Motion is negatived, it means that it may not come back. Therefore, there is need for you to reflect on what we are just about to do.
Yes, hon. Midiwo.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I rise under Standing Order No.96, which provides as follows:- “96(1) A Member who wishes to postpone to some future occasion the further discussion of a question which has been proposed from the Chair may claim to move ‘That, the debate be now adjourned’, or in Committee of the House ‘That the Chairperson do report progress.’
Hon. Speaker, what we are being treated to is something which the CORD leadership and its membership can sort out. This issue---
Order! Order, hon. Members! Can you allow hon. Midiwo to finish what he is saying?
Hon. Speaker, it is good because I have also heard these complaints on the other side of this House, from the Chief Whip; because there are challenges.
Hon. Speaker, a right is a right and a wrong is a wrong. When we sat in a Parliamentary Group meeting a few days ago, I tried to help the Minority Whip and the Leader of Minority Party but the same hon. Members, who may now be complaining here, said that I was interfering. So, I want to say here and now that I have nothing to do with it. However, now that there is a problem, let me promise the CORD Members that we will sit, as a house, and sort out ourselves. Hon. Duale who is the Leader of Majority Party, knows that, for five years, we had serious challenges with the issue of constitution of Committees. So, I want to plead with our Minority Whip and our Leader of Minority Party that, probably, we have no reason to have no way of knowing. I have been reliably informed that they went to present Kethi to the people of Makueni so that we can defeat Jubilee. So, Kethi is officially our candidate. So, they will be here to answer but I want to request you that we push this debate to a future date, so that we can make sure that we
Hon. Members, have no worries about my knowledge of the Standing Orders. Hon. Midiwo is right to make that suggestion, under Standing Order No.96. Given what we have heard from other hon. Members who have spoken, it is only fair that I put the Question that debate on this Motion be adjourned.
Hon. Speaker, I beg to move the following Procedural Motion:- THAT, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.120, this House resolves that the publication period of the following Bills be reduced from 14 days to nine days- (i) The Microfinance (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.3 of 2013); (ii) The Kenya Deposit Insurance (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.4 of 2013); (iii) The Insurance (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.5 of 2013); (iv) The Insurance (Motor Vehicle Third Party Risks) (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.6 of 2013); (v) The Tax Appeals Tribunal Bill (National Assembly Bill No.7 of 2013); and, (vi) The Capital Markets (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.8 of 2013).
This is a Procedural Motion to formally give the House these Bills and to formally let my Committee handle them. Since the 11th Parliament started, we have only had one Bill which is the Division of Revenue Bill. My Committee wants to give this House the next set of Bills which I have read out.
Hon. Members, please consult in low tones. Please read Standing Order No.104 on standing on gangways and passages. I have seen many of you doing exactly that. You will be thrown out of the House!
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I wish you could throw somebody out now.
I think I am about to!
Hon. Speaker, Sir, thank you for your protection. I was saying that we have only passed one Bill in this House. I am trying to give this House the next set of Bills so that we can discuss them. This includes the Microfinance (Amendment) Bill and the Kenya Deposit Insurance (Amendment) Bill. We need to reduce this time so that we can get these Bills as soon as possible. We should start moving into Bills because we have been doing Motions. These are serious Bills that we want to pass in this House.
I do not want to spend much time on this. I request the House to support the reduction of time so that we can move on. I request Hon. Katoo to second this Procedural Motion.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I second.
Let us move on to the next Order!
Hon. Members, we are now in the Committee of the whole House to consider the Appropriation Bill (National Assembly Bill No.11 of 2013). Clause 2 was considered on 26th June, 2013.
Hon. Members, this is the order in which we will take the amendments. We will take hon. Moses Lessonet’s proposed amendment followed by hon. Ronald Tonui’s amendment. If hon. Ronald Tonui’s amendment is carried, then hon. Midiwo’s proposed amendment will fall. Hon. Chris Wamalwa and hon. Mwaita’s proposed amendments will also fall.
Hon. Members, there is a small clarification. Hon. Mwaita’s amendment will fall if hon. Lesonnet’s amendment is carried. Hon. Members, we want to continue and conduct ourselves as we have always done in the Committee of the whole House. Therefore, I call upon hon. Moses Lessonet to propose his amendment.
Thank you, hon. Chairlady. I stand to move the amendment to Clause 1 to introduce 1st July as the commencement---
Hon. Lessonet, we are on the Schedule. We are not on any Clause. Clause 1 will come towards the end of the Bill; so it is on the Schedule.
Hon. Chairlady, thank you for that direction. I beg to move:- THAT, the Schedule to the Bill be amended: (a) in Vote D103, by deleting the figure “44,869,029,251” appearing in the third column and substituting therefor the figure “46,169,029,251”; (b) in Vote D108, by deleting the figure “13,585,699,194” appearing in the third column and substituting therefor the figure “12,285,699,194” I want to move an amendment to reduce Vote D103 by Kshs1.3 billion. This is the vote for the Development Expenditure towards the Ministry of Health where Kshs1.3
Hon. Chairlady, thank you for giving me the opportunity to second this amendment. The gist of this amendment is to hasten the construction of houses for nurses. When we discussed this at the Committee and in consultation with the National Treasury and the Ministry of Health, we felt that the performance of the CDF projects have been faster in the past, better and many times were cheaper. Therefore, it was felt that this is something that needs to be done urgently. We are all aware that we have just offered, as a country, free maternity services across the country. That is something that will be dependent to a large extent on the work of nurses who work in health centers, dispensaries and hospitals. You are also aware that we have approved a budget to employ 30 nurses in every constituency. It is, therefore, important that we move fast and with speed and make their lives comfortable by constructing those houses. So, we felt that these funds should be moved from the Ministry of Health to the CDF. I am sure that now that it is going to the CDF, this amendment is unlikely to face any opposition. With those few remarks, I beg to second.
The Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury has confirmed that they have consulted and they are in agreement.
Hon. Chairlady, just to confirm that we have, indeed, met with the Cabinet Secretary, not once, yesterday I was privileged to table the evidence from the Cabinet Secretary in this House that the money has been acted upon accordingly. That evidence is there and so this House can, at least, take comfort in that the Cabinet Secretary has approved.
We will now have the amendment by Hon. Tonui.
Hon. Chairlady, I beg to move:- THAT, the Schedule be amended: (a) in Vote R106, by deleting the figure “77,399,662,593” appearing in the third column and substituting therefor the figure “53,399,662,593”; (b) in Vote R209, by deleting the figure “148,492,870,015” appearing in the third column and substituting therefor the figure “172,492,870,015”. I am proposing this because I want to see the disharmony in the Public Service harmonized. I want the issues of teachers---
Hon. Tonui, so that you can help hon. Members to follow your argument, tell us how much money you are moving from where and where you are taking it to so that we are clear on how to follow your argument; and for what purpose.
Hon. Chairlady, that is what I am trying to do. If I had been allowed to go through it the way I have organized it, it will be okay. What I am proposing is that we remove from the Ministry of Education because it is within the same sector about Kshs24 billion to move to the Teachers Service Commission (TSC) to ensure that there is harmonization in terms of allowances for all public servants. We know that teachers under the TSC and those in the Public Service Commission (PSC) are in the same job groups. Unfortunately, they are not paid the same allowances even though they are in the same job groups. For example, when it comes to the issue of commuter allowance, those under the TSC in Job Group R are paid Kshs4,410 while those under the PSC are paid Kshs20,000. That is a difference of Kshs15,590. This is a big disparity which even the Constitution does not allow. Teachers are also commuting just like everyone else using vehicles. They do not use donkeys. So that is why I thought we could deal with the issue of harmonizing these allowances. Even within this city, teachers travel to, for example, Moi Primary School here, using the same means with civil servants in the same job group. So, why can we not harmonize the commuter allowance? To do that, we require about Kshs11.4 billion. After all, the Constitution provides that we should not discriminate against anyone. That is what I am proposing.
On the issue of leave allowance, we are talking of Kshs1.4 billion. Everyone else in this country is paid leave allowance except the teachers. For example, civil servants in Job Group K are given a leave allowance of Kshs6,000 and those in the Judiciary are given Kshs16,000. These are not lawyers, but the employees who are there. The ones under the Teachers Service Commission Secretariat are paid Kshs6,000, but teachers in the same job groups are not paid even a single cent. That is why I am proposing that we harmonize leave allowances for all the public servants, including teachers. We should not discriminate against teachers.
Go further, hon. Tonui, to say from which Vote Head.
Hon. Chairlady, if you could allow me, I was going to explain.
Order, Members! Remember this is the Third Reading. We are in the Committee of the whole House and we are not debating the matter. So, you really have to be brief, so that we can follow your argument.
Hon. Chairlady, what I am proposing is already stated there. I am proposing to remove it from R106 – the Ministry of Education, Science and Technology. It is reallocation within the same Head Vote. This House places the role of resolving national issues---
On a point of order, hon. Chairlady. I am rising on a point of order again on the issue of relevance and clarity. The Member should go straight to the point. For us who are looking at the Appropriations Bill, what he is trying to do in rectifying the issue of salaries is touching on the Vote Head that deals with the Recurrent Expenditure in the Ministry of Education, Science and Technology. Therefore, we would be punishing the education sector rather than helping it. He should be clear as to where he is getting the Kshs27 billion. The clause that he is quoting in the Appropriation Bill is for administration purposes and he should be clear as to whether he wants to do away with the free primary education, the Kshs1 billion for quality assurance or he wants to take away the money that has been given for the university education. He should be clear what Vote Head he is touching.
Just clarify. The Ministry of Education, Science and Technology has many different Vote Heads. So, can you be clear which one you are removing, hon. Tonui?
Hon. Chairlady, this is from the issue of laptops. I was proposing that we build computer labs.
Order Members! There shall be order in the House! You will get your chance to debate, Members! You know that we do not have to shout so that you can be heard. Let us allow the Member. I have already informed him that this is Committee of the whole House. Let him proceed to conclude. You have got the voice because when you are in this debating Chamber, it is not the shouting, but it is the numbers that will eventually count. So, let us just give everybody a chance. Let them say their bit and we can then proceed to vote. Please, conclude, hon. Tonui!
Hon. Chairlady, I have already identified where that money should come from. We need to support the teachers. We should not wait and then we shed crocodile tears after discussing the issues that are affecting the teachers.
On a point of order, hon. Chairlady. Having listened to hon. Tonui and having looked at the ordering of the amendments, his reasoning, to me, is perfect, although he is talking and the Members are shouting, the same Members who have just said that they want to pay teachers. They said yesterday and today. I support hon. Tonui in principle. All I wanted to ask him is to withdraw his amendment because my amendment, which will soon be coming, encompasses KUPPET, KNUT, the Auditor- General and many other sectors and political parties which all these Members belong to. So, if he moved his, we will only deal with KUPPET generally, but if I moved mine, we
That is up to the Mover of the amendment.
Hon. Chairlady, my amendment has a real basis. So, I may not accept to withdraw it because there was a basis why I was proposing it. I am proposing the amendment on the basis of harmonization.
No! We have to have order in the House, Members! We really must have order!
Hon. Chairlady, my amendment is on the basis of harmonization. So, I want it to stand. I want to request my colleague, hon. Osele from Kasipul Kapondo.
On a point of order, hon. Chairlady. We are in this House not by default, but to represent our people. We are at the Committee Stage and we are not discussing the issue of teachers, KNUT or KUPPET. With your indulgence, you must guide the House. I want to go into the HANSARD saying that we are dealing with a money Bill at the Committee Stage. Hon. Tonui is moving an amendment on the money Bill. He is under obligation, it is not a choice, to tell the Members which Vote. He has only written here Vote 106. He is the owner of the amendment and he must tell all the Members Vote 106 is which Vote. We cannot transact the business and you are here. We must be told what is Vote 106 and he must explain to the nation. It is a money Bill and we should not take this House casually. Could hon. Tonui either withdraw his amendment as suggested by hon. Midiwo or he tells the House, in white and black, Vote 106 is what under the Ministry of Education, Science and Technology and where he is taking it what it will be? It must be done.
Make that clarification! I think I have also told you to ask the same question severally; is R106 on administration, recurrent or development expenditure? What exactly is R106?
Hon. Chairlady, Sir, all of us here are representatives of people. It is not hon. A.B. Duale alone who is here to represent the Kenyan public. Even Ronald Kiprotich Tonui is here to represent Kenyans who voted for me. So, when I talk---
Order, hon. Members! Really, hon. Members we cannot continue in this version, because each one of you--- Everybody has a right, an equal right in this House. Nobody is more important than the other once you are here.
Order! Order, hon. Members! I am making a general statement. So, hon. Members--- Hon. Ken Mirenga please leave the Chamber!
Hon. Members, this is a debating Chamber, and you must maintain order! Allow hon. Tonui to finish what he wanted to say. This is a Committee of the whole House. Hon. Tonui, please conclude, so that we can get another hon. Member to contribute. I am asking hon. Ken Mirenga to go out for the remainder of the day.
Hon. Chairlady, that is why I was giving you the breakdown. The commuter allowance is Kshs11.4 billion, leave allowance Ks1.4 billion, and responsibility allowance Kshs3 billion. That totals to around Kshs15 billion. The item for laptops, which has Kshs17.5 billion, will cover that amount.
So, yours is precisely on the item for laptops?
Yes. I can be seconded now?
Yes, we are here.
We actually do not require seconding in the Committee of the whole House. But I will indulge you because this is a matter that all of you seem to be interested in. So, who is seconding you? Hon. Tonui, you have to say who is seconding you.
Okay; I will assume you do not have somebody to second your amendment. Are you the one deciding that you are seconding the Motion or is it the owner of the amendment? It is the owner of the amendment who should tell us.
I had already said hon. Onyango of Kabondo Kaspul is seconding.
Thank you, hon. Chairlady. You cannot just be on continuous points of order. I stand---
Hon. Onyango, I am the Chair of this Committee! Please do not decide to do my job.
I am very sorry, hon. Chair, for usurping your powers. I am very sorry. I beg to second on the basis that we have many things that, as a House--- There are powers given to us to allocate and locate; we can set priorities and assist the Government achieve its goals. Certain things may not seem a priority. I am not debating; I am just saying that up to this stage teachers earn Kshs150 responsibility allowance, while the civil servants earn Kshs3,000. The disparity can be eliminated by additional money that is going to come from Vote 106 and be reallocated to that item. I beg to second for the sake of our teachers, who are supposed to live like other Kenyans.
Order, hon. Members! I have just proposed the Question. I am now waiting for very brief contributions before I put the Question. Hon. Sakaja, what do you have to say on this?
Thank you, hon. Chairlady. I just want to clarify that in as much as the sentiments by the hon. Member are well received the Vote he is talking about is not the one that actually has what they are calling the laptop project. Vote R106, in the Appropriation Bill has the amount required in the year ending 30th June, 2014 for salaries and expenses for the Ministry of Education, Science and Technology, general administration and planning, basic education, quality assurance and standards, secondary, tertiary and university education, research, science and technology and innovation. I do not see laptops there. I think that he is misleading the House by saying that the money that he is trying to get for teachers is under laptops. That is a wrong Vote.
Very good. You can see in that clarification that you have used a Vote that---
On a point of clarification.
Order, hon. Members! You cannot have too many clarifications on these. I do not know what all these requests are for. Yes, hon. Mwaura.
I am sorry, hon. Chairlady. It was a wrong button. I am sorry.
That was a wrong button. Let us have Antony Kimani Ichung’wah.
Hon. Chairlady, I think the issue I wanted to raise has been raised by hon. Sakaja.
Thank you. Hon. Leader of Majority Party, do you have something different?
Hon. Chairlady, this is procedural and the Budget office is here. I am sure this now puts Parliament in a very awkward situation. The hon. Member has been captured by the HANSARD and Kenyans are watching. He said Vote R106 is taking money from laptops. This is very shameful.
Hon. Chairlady, protect me from those who are making noise.
Okay. Order, hon. Members! Hon. Opiyo, you will get your chance.
Hon. `Chairlady, I want you to guide us. We must follow the law. Vote R106 is not for laptops. If hon. Members have nightmares over laptops, they will sleep a lot. The laptops will be there and the teachers will be paid.
Order! Leader of Majority Party, I think that hon. Sakaja has clearly prosecuted that point. So, let us not repeat what has been said. What is your point of order, hon. Midiwo?
Hon. Chairlady, I wish to beg my colleagues to follow your instructions; this is a tedious matter. We know emotions are there, but hon. Tonui is a new Member of the House, and this is his first term in this House. I have been here for 11
It is not for me to prove; this is what you did, and the nation needs to know it.
Allow the hon. Member to finish his contribution.
Before the Appropriation Bill comes here, the Budget Committee, in all fairness to hon. Tonui, should have tabled their report, which report is missing. We are indulging them. What we can say now is that we cannot debate this Bill without a report. This Bill must be based on something. There is no report before this House! What is somebody trying to hide from Kenyans? This is a Committee on which 51 hon. Members of this National Assembly have been sitting for so many hours every day, and earning allowances; they cannot dare table a report and then table the Appropriation Bill. Let us be fair to hon. Tonui!
Order, hon. Member! Yes, I am told that the information may not be totally correct, hon. Midiwo, because the Report on the Estimates from the Budget and Appropriations Committee was tabled and passed in this House. It is in furtherance of that Report that we have this Appropriation Bill. Hon. Members, can we then proceed to make a decision on hon. Tonui’s proposal and then move on?
Hon. Chairlady, allow me to inform this hon. House, and the nation at large, that budget-making is a process. It starts with policy, goes to planning, budgeting and finally appropriation. That process is guided and guarded by law. It starts with our mother law, the Constitution. Article 114 in respect of a money Bill, which this Bill is, states that this National Assembly may only proceed in accordance with the recommendation of the relevant committee of the Assembly, the Committee I am honoured to Chair, after taking into account the views of the Cabinet Secretary responsible for finance. That process must be guarded by law. The law in question is the Public Finance Management Act. Section 7(g) of that Act states that no recommendations may be made unless the views of the Cabinet Secretary have been taken into account. Finally, our own Standing Order No. 231 states: “…If a motion makes provision for a matter listed in the definition of “a money Bill” in terms of Article 114 of the Constitution, the Assembly may proceed only with the recommendation of the Budget and Appropriations Committee after taking into account the views of the Cabinet Secretary for finance”. Hon. Chairlady the logic is clear. We sat as the Committee charged with that responsibility by the process and law. In the deliberations we saw it as expedient and necessary to seek about Kshs5.6 billion to be given to the TSC to support the process; that was last week. This is work in progress. Unless this House wants to introduce anarchy--- Anarchy is when you govern without regard to the law and procedure. If we
I think that was the last contribution on that matter. Hon. Jakoyo, please, let us proceed and put this amendment to vote.
Hon. Members what that means is that---
Order, hon. Members! That amendment has fallen, and, therefore, hon. Jakoyo Midiwo can continue to present his amendment.
On a point of order, hon. Chairlady. I just needed your guidance and direction. I listened very carefully to the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee, whom I respect very much as a man of God like myself, who is a woman of God. I know that hon. A.B. Duale is in doubt. The reason he is in doubt that I am a woman of God is because I do not go to the mosque. However, we serve the same God.
Hon. Chairlady, the clarification that I wish to seek from you is on what the Chairman has just said. He said, if I got him well – and it is going to have an impact on what hon. Midiwo is going to do - that once we consult the Cabinet Secretary, and once the Budget and Appropriations Committee approves, then our role is merely to rubberstamp. That is extremely dangerous. We need your direction so that if that is the case we then do away with all amendments and pass what the Budget and Appropriations Committee has done, and go to other Motions. Hon. Chairlady, having said that I want to say that my vote is with the teachers of this country.
Hon. Members that point has been taken, and I will refer to our Standing Orders on that matter. Let us now allow hon. Midiwo to move his amendment.
Calm down! Relax! Relax!
Where are you reading from? We do not have that!
Hon. Midiwo could you, please, make it clear that you are moving your Motion in an amended form because it is different from what is on the Order Paper?
Hon. Chairlady, I want to make that clear because the figures are different and it was a typing error in the Office of the Clerk. It should be understood better when I explain the figures.
Do not worry, hon. Shill. This is not a cow market! This is the National Assembly of Kenya. Hon. Chairlady, the net effect of what the first amendment does is that it gives me a total figure of Kshs53 billion. I want to move a further amendment to the Schedule as follows:- (b) in Vote R124, by deleting the figure “1,388,402,397” appearing in the third column and substituting in place thereof the figure “2,388,402,397”; (c) in Vote R126, deleting the figure “329,726,897 appearing in the third column and substituting in place thereof the figure “3,329,726,897”;
(d) in Vote R209, by deleting the figure “148,492,870,015” appearing in the third column and substituting therefor in place thereof the figure “195,492,870,015”;
(e) in Vote R211, by deleting the figure “2,070,505,700” appearing in the third column and substituting therefor the figure “4,070,505,700”.
Hon. Chairlady, the amendment is important, and it is important that I explain. I know that it is being opposed controversially. I know that our children are at home because their teachers are on strike due to a debt which was incurred in 1997. What the teachers are seeking are peanuts for the individual. I like what the President said about the economy. How do you manage the economy? You must put money into the pockets of people. This is not money which is going to the teachers for free; it is their money. They have worked for it. I made a proposal in this House a week ago. The Government could have involved us. We know that the Government has mixed up priorities. It is, therefore, the duty of this House to help the Government. I am not doing this for the sake of it. I am doing it as a responsible Kenyan. Why am I saying so? The money is in this Budget. That is why we said we needed to be furnished with proper reasons. It is good that the Budget and Appropriations Committee reduced money that was set aside for purchasing of an office block for the immediate former President. We love our retired Presidents but there is fraud involved even in that deal. I want to table evidence in this
It is, indeed, a big shame! Hon. Chairlady, I will table this report, so that Kenyans can access it.
That one was amended.
Hon. Chairlady, this is an official Government document. It is the valuation report of that building. It means that this House has a duty---
On a point of order, hon. Chairlady.
No, let me continue. You will have your turn.
Hon. Chairlady, this document was amended.
Order, hon. Members! We will check the authenticity of the document. Hon. Midiwo, can we have it, so that we look at it in the normal manner we authenticate documents that come to the House?
Hon. Chairlady, ask my colleagues because the amendment I am moving is huge and is dealing with Kshs53 billion.
Hon. Midiwo, you should know that this is a Committee of the whole House.
Hon. Chairlady, I know that but I am moving five amendments in one. Please, I beg your indulgence.
Hon. Midiwo, can you table that document, so that we verify its authenticity as you continue to summarise your amendments?
Hon. Chairlady, I am saying that we will give the teachers Kshs47 billion from Vote R106. Due to the underfunding of the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions, which is an office of the Jubilee Government, we are giving that Office a further Kshs1 billion.
On a point of order, hon. Chairlady.
Order, hon. Members! Just allow hon. Midiwo to finish what he is doing.
On a point of order! Point of order!
Order! Order! Finish, hon. Jakoyo Midiwo.
Hon. Chairlady, lastly---
Order! Order, hon. Members! Somebody is going to go out just now! Order, Members!
Hon. Washington Midiwo, can you, please, summarise?
I am summarising, hon. Chairlady.
Order! Order, hon. Members! Let us just be patient with each other. Nobody is going to go anywhere. All of you have rights in this House. So, please, be patient.
Please, complete your submissions, hon. Midiwo.
Hon. Chairlady, hon. Tanui was asked to say what he was doing with the money. Is it irritating that I know how to do it? What is the problem?
Hon. Chairlady, I am giving the Director of Public Prosecutions Kshs1 billion to enhance the work of his Office. This is important to the Jubilee Government. The Auditor-General’s Office has been allocated a meagre Kshs1.8 billion; it is the same amount that was given to that Office last year. Beginning this year, we are going to have 48 governments. Unless we wish to export corruption to the counties, we should fund the Office of the Auditor-General adequately. We are already seeing what the governors are doing. Many hon. Members are complaining. Therefore, we must have credible auditing of public funds at the county level.
Lastly, on political parties, all the hon. Members on that side of the House belong to political parties. Hon. Sakaja, you are a chairman of a political party. I want you to listen to me very carefully. The Political Parties Act says that---
You used to be a teacher, and you will face the teachers tomorrow. I think you are a quack. You do not care about fellow teachers.
Hon. Midiwo, wind up.
Hon. Chairlady, lastly, the Political Parties Act stipulates that not less than 0.3 per cent of the collectable revenue shall be set aside in every financial year to go to political parties. Zero point three per cent of Kshs1.6 trillion is about Kshs3 billion. It can never be Kshs300 million that is being given to political parties. That is by law. Which impunity are you trying to use?
Order! Order, hon. Members! I think you have finished, hon. Jakoyo Midiwo.
Hon. Chairlady, I am finishing.
You have finished! I have indulged you, hon. Jakoyo Midiwo. Please, resume your seat now. Order, hon. Members! I think you have finished, hon. Jakoyo.
I am finishing, hon. Chairlady. Give me one minute.
I indulge you, hon. Midiwo.
Please take your seat hon. Midiwo. I can see other hon. Members leaving this Chamber. Can we pronounce the document that has just been laid on the Table? You know that we always authenticate documents that come to the Floor of the House. This document has the logo of The Republic of Kenya. It is a Report of the Technical Committee on the Proposed Purchase of LR7258/46 along Gigiri Road for cabinet office space. It was presented to the Permanent Secretary, Secretary to the Cabinet and Head of Public Service on 22nd---
Hon. Junet, you risk being thrown out of this House if you continue in that fashion!
It was presented to the Permanent Secretary, Secretary to the Cabinet and the Head of Public Service on 22nd February, 2013. It is stamped “confidential”. It is signed by one Patrick Bucha, who was the Chairman of that Committee. So, it is an unacceptable document by the standards set in this House.
Hon. Members, what hon. Jakoyo Midiwo is proposing to do is to remove money from the Ministry of Education, Science and Technology. He wants to allocate Kshs1 billion to the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP). He also wants to allocate Kshs3 billion to the Registrar of Political Parties and Kshs46 billion to the Teachers Service Commission (TSC). He also wants to allocate Kshs2 billion to the Auditor-General. That is the import of what you are going to vote on.
Yes, hon. Gatobu!
Thank you, hon. Chairlady. I think you are politicizing this issue very much. I rise under Standing Order No.54 on amendments to Motions. We must defeat the amendment hon. Midiwo is bringing to the House. To be sincere, hon. Midiwo cannot hide under the issue of teachers. I am a teacher by profession; my fiancé and parents are teachers.
Hon. Chairlady, I am very passionate with regard to this issue. Protect me hon. Chairlady. I am saying that hon. Midiwo is reducing---
Hon. Members, if we cannot allow each other to speak--- Look at hon. Kinoti, is that somebody for you, hon. Midiwo?
Please, allow him to speak. Let us give hon. Kinoti time to speak. Continue, Hon. Kinoti.
Thank you, hon. Chairlady. I have said that I am very passionate about teachers and education. It is only yesterday that this House passed a Motion I moved on education. Hon. Midiwo cannot take us round in circles. Hon. Midiwo is proposing to take away Kshs47 billion from the Ministry of Education, Research and Technology and distribute Kshs52 billion. However, this does not add up. He has distributed Kshs3 billion to political parties, Kshs47 billion to teachers and Kshs22 billion--- He is saying that it is teachers whereas it is not teachers. This is not an issue of teachers. He has taken some money from the Ministry of Education, Research and Technology.
I think your point, hon. Kinoti, has been made. Please remember how we have been guided by the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee. Hon. Members, because we need to make progress and this is the Committee of the whole House, I will now put the Question.
Yes, there are more than enough Members seeking a Division. Ring the Division Bell.
Order, hon. Members! Please settle down! We want to start. Any hon. Member without a card should come to the Dispatch Box and all other hon. Members must be seated and logged in; we are voting electronically. Hon. Members, you must be logged in with your pin numbers except for the hon. Members without cards, who shall stand by the Dispatch Box. Everybody else should be seated and logged in. Hon. Members should not be consulting any more. Get seated and log in with your cards, please! Hon. Members, we will be doing electronic voting.
Hon. Members, the machines are working. Please, hon. Members, be seated and log in, except for the hon. Members who do not have cards, who shall be at the Dispatch Box.
Hon. Members, please be seated. We all belong to this House. Please, be seated and log in, all of you. The system is working. You will see it and it will be printed. So, there is no reason to doubt. It will show clearly how you have voted. So, hon. Members let us trust this system. It is ours. Please, sit down! Any hon. Member who does not
Order! Serjeant-at-Arms, could you order hon. Members to sit down, please. Order, hon. Members! This is not a market place, hon. Members! Please be seated.
Order, hon. Members! Obviously, hon. Members are unhappy about doing the electronic voting; so we shall use manual voting.
Please hon. Members, I therefore, order that I be given tellers for the “Ayes” and for the “Noes”, I want to be given tellers from both sides of the House. The teller for “Ayes” is hon. Ichung’wah, and the teller for “Noes” is hon. Wamunyinyi.
Okay. We will start voting, hon. Members.
Please do not utter any other word except “Yes” or “No!”
( Inaudible )
Order, hon. Ababu! We did not hear what you said.
On a point of order, hon. Chairlady.
Continue calling names.
Hon. Members, we need to bring the Committee of the whole House to a close. I will now announce the results of the Division. It is the Chair that announces the results. We had a total of 173 hon. Members voting.
We have 75 Ayes and 98 noes; there were no abstentions. I now order that the Bar be drawn back. Let the doors be opened. The import of that Division is that hon. Midiwo’s amendment has been lost.
On a point of order, hon. Chairlady. I rise under the Standing Order No.96 to request that the Committee reports progress. The way the amendments have been disposed of, the hon. Members would want to reflect on them.
Hon. Kajwang’, I rule you out of order. The same Standing Order No.96(3) says:- “If the Speaker is of the opinion that a dilatory Motion is an abuse of the proceedings of the House, the Speaker may forthwith put the question thereon or decline to propose it”. I will rule you out of order; we will continue. Hon. Members, I was just stating that hon. Midiwo’s amendment is lost, and by extension, hon. Wakungu’s amendment, which is similar, is dropped.
Order, hon. Members! Order, hon. Members! Please, take a minute to breathe. Let us consult and we will give you an answer.
On what Division are you standing up?
I want to ask that we report progress. Hon. Members we are now going to report progress. Go ahead, Leader of Majority Party.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, Sir, will I be in order to ask the Committee of the whole House to report progress?
Order, hon. Members! We have tried to give you as much latitude but it looks like Members do not respect themselves and want us to conduct business like this is a market place. Please allow the Chairperson of the Committee to report progress.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, the Committee of the whole House is considering The Appropriations Bill and has instructed me to report progress and seek leave to sit again today.
Could the Leader of the Majority Party move the Motion on the extension of the time of the House?
Hon. Deputy Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order No---
Order, hon. Members!
Division! Division! Division!
Okay, let us count the hon. Members on their feet.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, you should not be intimidated!
Hon. Members, the Members who are on their feet are less than 30. Therefore, the Leader of the Majority Party may continue.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order No.30, this House resolves to extend its sitting hours until business appearing under Order No.16 is concluded. Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to move.
Hon. Members, I am suspending--- Hon. Members, this House is suspended until 7.30 p.m.
Hon. Members, as you are aware, the House became unruly and the Sitting had to be suspended. That matter has been reported and it is for that reason that the House will proceed in the manner I am going to direct. Firstly, for the convenience of the House, the Speaker extends the sitting of today until completion of the business under Order No.16, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.30 (2). Secondly, due to what transpired in the Committee of the whole House, the House was suspended at 6.25 p.m. today, under Standing Order No.112. The same Standing Order provides for the manner in which the Speaker should proceed in the event of grave disorderly conduct in the Assembly. The suspension was at the point at which the Leader of the Majority Party was moving the Motion to extend the sitting time until the conclusion of the business under Order No.16 on today’s Order Paper. This is, therefore, a continuation of the suspended sitting, but taking into account my earlier direction. There is no need for the Leader of the Majority Party to move the Motion for extension of business.
Hon. Members, before I proceed to guide the House through the remainder of today’s business, I wish to note the following:- (a) The Committee of the whole House had considered the Appropriation Bill, 2013, up to Clause 2. The Title and Clause 1 had not been considered. All the other parts of the Bill have been considered but those of you who may have intended to move amendments to the Schedule, I want to advise that you move for re-committal of the particular item at the appropriate time. (b) The amendments on the Schedule by hon. Tonui, hon. Midiwo and hon. Chris Wamalwa intending to delete the figure under Vote R106 and appropriate the sum to other Votes--- I know that hon. Members have argued that the amendments are not similar since they move the amounts to different Votes. However, Standing Order No.54 (8) provides as follows:- “54(8) No amendment may be moved which relates to any words which it has been decided not to be left out of a Motion.” Hon. Members, in this case, the amendment by hon. Midiwo proposed to leave out the figure “77,399,662,593” and the Motion was negatived. So, according to Standing Order 54(8), the House decided that those words should not be deleted. In this case, no other amendment to the figure “77,399,662,593” shall be entertained.
Hon. Members, we are now in the Committee of the whole House.
Hon. Members, I am informed that there is an amendment to Clause 1 by hon. Lessonet. Please, proceed and move your amendment, hon. Lessonet.
Hon. Chairlady, I beg to move:-
Hon. Deputy Chairman, I beg to move that the Committee doth report to the House its consideration of the Appropriation Bill and its approval thereof with amendments.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that a Committee of the whole House has considered the Appropriation Bill, Bill No.11of 2013 and approved the same with amendments.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House doth agree with the Committee in the said Report.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, today is a great day for the teachers of this country. Through the passage of the Appropriation Bill, teachers will know that this Government is one that will solve their issues in collaboration with Parliament and not people who want to play cheap politics.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I want the country to know that the Budget for the 2013/2014 Financial Year has Kshs3 billion set aside for the promotion of teachers. The Jubilee Government has also set aside money for the recruitment of 10,000 teachers.
The Jubilee Government has also up-scaled the money for both free primary and free day secondary education. With your indulgence, I want to put it on record today that when the Estimates for 2013/2014 Financial Year were tabled in this House, they were subjected to the Departmental Committee of the House. Public participation was done in most of the counties and the harmonization was done by the Committees. A Report by the Budget and Appropriations Committee was tabled in this House on 11th June. That Report was adopted by this House.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, the Appropriation Bill was prepared on the basis of what was adopted by this House. That was done with public participation. It was also done with the participation of the Cabinet Secretary for National Treasury.
Under Article 114, Appropriation Bills is a money Bill. If you read that Article along with Section 39 of the Public Finance Act, you will find that it is very clear that a Member of Parliament cannot purport to amend the Appropriation Bill, which is a money Bill. If he has to do that, then he has to get the consent of two important groups. One is the public because it had a chance to put its input. Therefore, the Member needs to go back to the public. Secondly, a money Bill cannot be changed without the concurrence of the Cabinet Secretary for National Treasury. The law is very clear.
Those are the people who want to run this country through the jungle law. The laptop project was a manifesto pillar in the Jubilee Government. As the leadership of this House, we will make sure that each and every promise made to the Kenyan people, including the laptops, is achieved.
Again, it is the Jubilee coalition in this House that will make sure that our teachers are paid. The 216 Members of this coalition come from constituencies where there are schools and teachers.
The Member for Gem, hon. Jakoyo Midiwo, was purporting to help the teachers of this country today when in essence, he was allocating free primary money from the
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I will be very brief. On behalf of the Jubilee side of the Coalition, I would like to apologize to this House and Kenyans for what might have looked like a degeneration of the dignity of this House because of provocation from the CORD side. But it must be known that we knew the politics that was being played. We also knew the grave consequences of not passing the Appropriation Bill. We want to appeal to teachers to know that the side of the House that believes in sorting out their issues is those who do not believe in playing to the galleries. When hon. Midiwo, a man of many years’ experience can purport to bring an amendment that is technically flawed, it is very sad. It was meant to hoodwink teachers so that they can go out the whole weekend and talk about how they supported teachers. I want to say this to the House: I know from experience that most of the work of ODM is to play to the galleries. They never had intention to deliver. I want to plead with my colleagues, today we may have crossed the line because it was our first encounter with anarchy but I want to assure you that anarchy, as long as it has the leadership we saw today, will continue. Let us be on our toes. Let us keep the promises of the Jubilee Manifesto. With those few remarks, I beg to support.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I would like, first of all, to congratulate the House for having passed this Appropriation Bill because in as much as we have passed it as part of the business of the day, we must remember something: That on 4th March, 2013, Kenyans lined up in their millions and they issued a statement of faith that they wanted to vote out cheap politics and vote in results, development and a Government that
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Appropriations Bill be now read a Third Time.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, just a quick one. It is good for this country to know that what has been put in the media and played in the gallery that there is Kshs53 billion for laptops is not in this Budget. It is good to make it very clear that the Kshs53 billion that is meant for laptops is a proposed Budget for a three year period. In this financial year, what was there for laptops is only Kshs15 billion. So even if somebody was purporting to move Kshs53 billion for laptops to pay teachers Kshs47 billion, that was inconsequential because there is no such vote in the Budget where Kshs53 billion is meant for laptops. It is only Kshs15 billions and teachers are demanding Kshs47 billion. An amount of Kshs15 billion cannot pay Kshs47 billion. Secondly, it is also good to make it very clear that this House is not a rubberstamp as others have played to the gallery this afternoon. Actually, as the Leader of the Majority Party has said, this House, more than before is the Budget making institution. I urge my colleagues, all your proposals in budget making process should be forwarded through Departmental Committees which I am sure every hon. Member of this House belongs to. That is where you do reallocation. What came to the Floor through the Appropriations Bill is not from the Executive but it is as a result of this House through the process of making the Budget.
Finally, the Jubilee Government is very much alive to the demands that are being made by the teachers. It is through that process that Kshs5.6 billion has been put in this Budget to streamline the commuter allowance, which is one of the items that the teachers have been demanding since 1997. So, I wish to make that very clear that politics cannot make the Budget. It is real intentions and realities that make the Budget, taking into account the Kenyans aspirations and needs and what is available. That is what has been done this afternoon.
I beg to support the Bill.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I wish to take this chance as the Chair of the Committee on Education, Research and Technology to thank the entire House for protecting what was to be done this evening. I would like this House to note that whatever was supposed to be taken was to be taken from the free primary and secondary education and the provision of sanitary towels that our girls need in our schools. As the Chief Whip has mentioned, there is no money for laptops and I want to make it clear that the money for laptops is not Kshs53 billion. It is good for the Members of this House not to get information from the media and then come here and play politics. The money for laptops, as per the Budget, is Kshs15 billion and not Kshs53 billion. I would also like to take this chance to explain to the Members that the money for laptops is not only for Class One. It is going to cover Class One to Class Eight. I would also like to urge this House to support the laptops project. The Kshs15 billion is not just for buying laptops. We are going to train teachers and connect electricity in our primary schools. We are also going to make sure that Kenya becomes the hub of assembling these laptops. We want to create employment and in three years time, Kenya will not be where it is today. So, let it not be seen as a project for Class One, but it is as developmental project that is going to bring industrialization and improve our colleges. Colleges, like Jomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture and Technology (JKUAT) are going to partner with the people who are coming to assemble the laptops here. We are going to create
Hon. Members, remember that at this point, although this may be among the very first Bills that we are passing, there should be no debate. Just reflect on the Bill that you have just passed and its implications.
Hon. Speaker, I will be very brief because most of what I would have said has been said. I know that the Standing Orders prohibit being repetitive. I wish to thank the Chair of the Committee of the whole House and the Members that were present for saving this day. I would liken today to a story in the Bible, although I am not that prayerful. I would liken it to a situation where two mothers went before the King to ask for one particular child - I stand to be corrected by those who know the Bible - but when the woman who did not have the pain of that child was asked what should be done with the child, she said that the child should be split into two, so that each one of them could take half of the child. The Members of this Parliament understand the consequences of not passing the Appropriation Bill by today. Members understood very clearly that the money that we are appropriating is for public service. It is for delivery of service to the people of Kenya. So, by them purporting not to understand this and just walking out to deny the people of this country the chance to get services from the Government, in my view, is sabotage. It is a behavior that I would not condone, but I urge my colleagues to be on the watch out because these times are likely to come to the House because this is a desperate lot. We must defend our Government. We must give the people money. We must work for our people. When that other time comes, if they will be lucky and if it will ever come; probably, as I said sometimes back, they will have to seek divine intervention if they will ever get to the seat of power.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to what my colleagues have said. I am a teacher by profession and all through from 1996 and 1997, I participated in the teachers negotiations. I happen to have been one of the people who went to Kabarak on a Sunday and Mzee Moi promised us the things that people are talking about. I want to assure my former colleagues, namely, the teachers, that this Government will stand with them. It will deliver what they are asking for. Already, the Government has started fulfilling these promises and it is only a few steps that are remaining to complete. Let us be patient. Today, they were appealing, including my KNUT Secretary from West Pokot, that we support them. I want to assure them this evening that this Government, which I am fully with, will support the teachers and fulfill their demands. What I have seen today is very shameful. Kenyans should understand that the people who were heckling here and
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Appropriation Bill. I am a sad person because how we have been treated here lacks decorum and the dignity that this House deserves. First time Members have been waiting to see business being conducted differently in this House. It is unfortunate that it is Members who are not first timers who are leading the way in conducting business in a manner that erodes the authority of the House. It may also erode the authority of the Speaker. I want to commend the Deputy Speaker for being extremely patient. I would have acted differently and possibly sent several people out, but the design of the Members of the Minority Party who lack direction and leadership was meant to frustrate the Speaker and this Bill, so that the country can be held to ransom. The Members of this House, including the Minority, understand the meaning of the Appropriation Bill especially where we are in terms of the timeframe. One would wonder why the CORD, even after losing miserably, has failed to learn that Kenyans have changed in their approach and thinking. Kenyans are thinking differently. They are not living in the old constitutional order, where disorder and shouting was the order of the day. Indeed, some of the Members are yet to see the worst looking at what has happened tonight and considering that this is one of the most important Bills that the 11th Parliament has had to deal with. I support, but as we proceed, as the Jubilee Government, to implement and execute the promises and implement the items and the votes that are here, it is important to listen to the people. It is important to consult widely, so that we can be in sync with the majority of Kenyans who have continued to support the Jubilee Government. I have no doubt that even the teachers who are watching tonight and who voted for the Jubilee Government, will continue to have faith in dialogue. We need to teach the CORD Members how to carry out inter-parties dialogue and debate. Walking out of the Chamber is a sign of cowardice, allow me, and I hope that this is parliamentary language, and nobody wins in any platform or forum – and the CORD Members need to hear this - by walking out. You win by debating, dialoguing, listening and also casting your vote. They have missed an important moment by being part of this Bill, but I am happy the Members are sitting here tonight to give the country the Appropriation Bill.
Hon. Speaker, Sir, I want to support the Appropriation Bill, but time for cheap politics should have ended by the time we promulgated the new Constitution. The injustices that have been experienced in this country cannot be addressed with the kind of situation that I have seen in this Chamber today. I saw it once in 1998 when we came to this House. We were in suits and some of us were having placards inside their suits and it was quite interesting. That was my first time. It is surprising that some of the people who have done these things were here that time. It has been a big struggle for us to get where we are. The issue of teachers is a problem that has taken 16 years. It started before 1997 as hon. Moroto has said. It is not something that you can just sort out over night because that is deceit. That will be cheating the teachers. Somebody sent me a message and asked me whether the Members are against the proposed amendment by hon. Midiwo and against giving them the money. I told him that he is being cheated and this is spreading lies by showing that hon. Midiwo is trying to get money for the teachers. He is trying to divert money which is meant for the education sector to other sectors. I am happy that the Members remained here and we still have a quorum. When I look in the Chambers, the Members are still ready. Even if there was any war, we would still conduct business. We really want this country to move forward. Somebody said that if you want to get to a place, you cannot get there by estimating the number of steps you are going to make. First of all, you must know where you want to go and then you prepare yourself to get there. I believe that this laptops project that the Government has in mind is something that we want to achieve at the end of the day. Last week, I was very surprised when I got a schedule at the Committee on Education, Research and Technology on what has been accomplished from 1997 out of what was promised to the teachers. We should take stock of what has been given and what has not been given to the teachers, so that we can work out an amicable way of having the matter sorted out, but we cannot sort it on the streets. When you encourage teachers to block the entrance to Parliament Buildings, how will you come and conduct the business which will help their welfare? We should condemn in the strongest terms the behaviour of some of the Members today in this Chamber. I am sure by now they are somewhere telling their masters what they have done, but it was all negative on their part. With those remarks, I support.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir. I want to thank hon. Members of this House for standing with the children of this country. Without any doubt, if somebody removes money from Free Primary Education (FPE) and tries to transfer the money elsewhere then the implication is that they actually want to scrap FPE. I truly and sincerely want to thank the hon. Members who are here today and who stood with the children of this country. Let me speak about the teachers. We are all aware that they are on strike now. Our hearts are out to the teachers. However, the events that happened today have nothing to do with the feelings of teachers; it was all about politics. Hon. Members will agree with me that losing an election is very painful and especially a presidential election; it is very painful, indeed. Without any question, we realize that some Members are actually not asleep. People are scheming day and night on how the Jubilee Government can be
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate my colleagues for standing firm at this time and ensuring that the Government is supported. In my maiden speech I said that the laptop programme is very important. This is because we have planned to make this country industrial in the near future. There is no way we can achieve that without making a sacrifice. Technology is very important to achieving this end. You cannot claim to be supporting the teachers while at the same time you are against the Government. I know my responsibilities as a Member of the National Assembly. I need to support this Government in order to support the teachers. This is because there is no other Government that will pay the teachers. We do not have two Governments. We only have one Government. We cannot use the issue of teachers with an intention of failing the Government so that it appears that Kenyans did wrong to elect the current Government. Let us understand that anything that you do against the Government as a Member of Parliament you are also doing it against your people who elected you. This House has a very powerful role of representing the people of Kenya. It is now very clear that the intention was not the issue of teachers. If that was the case then where are those hon. Members who were for the idea? I would like to support and urge my colleagues that we do support this Government so that it delivers to the people who elected us. I support my people by supporting the Government.
Hon. Members, you will recall that the House had resolved to sit until conclusion of business appearing under Order No.16. Now, having concluded that business, the House now stands adjourned until Tuesday 2nd July, 2013 at 2.30 p.m.
The House rose at 8.38 p.m.