Hon. Members, it appears as if we do not have a quorum. I, therefore, order that the Division Bell be rung for ten minutes.
We now have the requisite quorum. Please take your seats so that we can proceed.
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Hon. Members, we are on the Motion by hon. Njenga. I am informed that hon. Nyikal had a balance of four minutes?
I concluded, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Okay! I take it that hon. Members who have placed requests want to contribute to the Motion and I can see hon. Murungi. In the meantime, does hon. Washiali have an intervention?
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. In the event of lack of quorum, we usually ring the bell. I was requesting whether the bell could be extended to the Continental House so that hon. Members who are there are aware of the aspect of lack of quorum in the House. This is because many hon. Members have offices in Continental House. Will that be allowed by your---
Ordinarily, hon. Members should know that the business is in this House. Again, that is an administrative thing but let us proceed. It is a good observation but I think it is administrative.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion as moved by hon. Njenga noting that our youth who are leaving primary and secondary schools are just roaming in the rural areas taking illicit brews and other hard drugs because they are frustrated. Most of them who leave Class Eight or primary school level are unable to join secondary schools due to various problems like financial constraints. This Motion will go a notch higher to make sure that we open up our village polytechnics. It is unfortunate that in the constituency where I come from, certain polytechnics are using the old Land Rover, Series 9, to train those people. Noting that the vehicles we are buying today are computerized, we wonder whether when they leave the polytechnics they are able to do any meaningful work to get some pay.
Since polytechnics have been devolved to county governments, I hope that county governments will be able to allocate enough resources so that those polytechnics can be improved with new infrastructure and new equipment to cope with the current trend. So, my wish is to have a polytechnic in every ward in the constituency so that graduates from Class Eight and Form Four are able to join them. We have several courses offered there, for example, plumbing and others. Nowadays, plumbers are rare and yet we have people who can be trained in polytechnics. We need people who can also do carpentry, masonry and auto-welding engineering. These would be the graduates who fail to go to other tertiary and national colleges. The Higher Education Loans Board (HELB) has done a commendable job, but still the funds they are giving to Form Four leavers who are joining universities are not enough.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to note that we have done much with the Constituencies Development Fund CDF). For example, in my constituency we have now started allocating funds to the students in post-secondary institutions, like colleges and universities, but still this money is not enough. The hon. Member indicated that money to be given to these polytechnic students should be channeled through the CDF process. This is also commendable because hon. Members are able to know exactly the students who are not in these schools because we move around the constituency all the time and we know where these problems are.
With these brief comments, I support the Motion.
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Thank you hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. I wish to contribute to this very important Motion by hon. Njenga. The power of the youth in a constituency is core to this nation. I think investing in the youth is the only way that this country can move forward. When we do not invest in the youth, the thinking of Vision of 2030 will be just a pipe dream. I say that because when we say that the youth should be given soft loans, packages and others and yet you have not developed skills for them to utilize whatever funds that are available, then it is just wasting good money.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, we should have youth polytechnics or technical institutes at the constituency level. It is important for us to see the constituency as the pinning ground because at the constituency level, we know the numbers that graduate from Standard Eight and also from Form Four. But what this Motion seeks is financial training in applied sciences. Actually, we also need the teachers more than anything else and the infrastructure for us to undertake skills development in our youth.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, when we say that countries like Korea, Malaysia and others which began at the same level as our country in the 1950s have gone ahead, we need to realize that they have moved forward because they have invested in empowering the youth. They provide technical skills which are within villages and homes where people are able to come up with small gadgets which eventually form the industrial hub for those countries.
We said that we are devolving to the counties. But my question still remains, what is at the county and have we prepared the counties to undertake this particular task? Though we have the resources or the capacity to muster enough numbers to go round; we should not lose sight of development in this country. I think the constituency still remains the centre of development and focus because even in terms of pilferage, corruption and losses, they are actually going to be minimized.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, this Motion could be the fiftieth or the sixtieth one we have debated in this House in terms of how the youth of this country can be looked after. I think 0.1 per cent of the national revenue is too small, if we are going to say that we divide it among the 290 constituencies in this country. So, I beg to request further the Mover of the Motion, as it becomes a Bill, to see how that should be enhanced to 2 or 3 per cent. So that whatever goes into the constituency is actually enough to be able to come up with the necessary infrastructure.
With those remarks, I beg to support.
Thank you so much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity to contribute. I wish to support this Motion because of what the Mover said.
The youth of this country is getting a raw deal. I always wonder what happens to the youth who do not step in high school and those who do not go to the university. For those who join university, we have the Higher Education Loans Board (HELB) which sponsors their studies. For those who join teachers colleges and Kenya medical colleges, we do Harambee for them. What happens to those who get grade âC-â and âDâ; who do not qualify to join middle level colleges? That is the issue. We are leaving a whole generation without a guided future. If you look at the numbers that go to the university every year, it is not even 20 per cent of those who do the KCSE examinations. The numbers that graduate from high school to either middle level colleges or university are
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Hon. Ochieng, and probably for the Members to know, your prayer was heard a little earlier, it was changed from 0.1 per cent to one per cent. It was indicated earlier that it had been changed. So, as the Members contribute, they should know that it is one per cent and not 0.1 per cent.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. I come from an area that has a huge population that is not able to support the cost of education past the primary school level. In fact, in Kipipiri, you find that the transition rate, even of going to second school is just about 49 per cent. This means that half the pupils who sit for primary school examination at Standard Eight do not go anywhere. We are working very hard on it, but the history is that there are very many youths out there who may be beyond going to secondary school and have nowhere else to go. We do not have many polytechnics there. We are trying to establish some and an attempt to open one in Wanjohi in Kipipiri this year failed basically because parents could not afford the necessary fees to start that new polytechnic. This Motion is timely and should be supported. Looking at the bursary structure, it is given to secondary school students. It is also given to university students who also get the HELB, but nobody remembers those poor youths. An orphan is supported in secondary school, but he leaves, he is not able to join a polytechnic or any other tertiary college because there is no money to fund him. Together with the Motion that we passed recently where the youths should also be given loans to start small businesses, the Uwezo Fund and the Youth Enterprise Development Fund, it is possible for these people to change the fortunes of this country, turn them around and start serious cottage industries. In Kipipiri, whenever we try to come up with a new building, we have to go looking for artisans and masons from outside. This is basically because the polytechnics are not active. They are not functional because of lack of money. Secondly, we do not have people who are trained. So, I support this Motion. Looking at the Constitution, village polytechnics are under the county governments. My advice and position would be that we establish an outfit with a national outlook to fund this training. The money is going to trickle down to the constituencies. I support this Motion and wish to say that it is timely.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity so that I can also give my views. First of all, I rise to support this Motion as proposed by hon. Njenga. The issue of the youth in this country has been left for a long time. Indeed, we need these polytechnics like yesterday. Village polytechnics are very important to enhance skills for our people. In the entire Narok County, we only have two polytechnics which have nothing that you can be proud of. I am saying this because recently, we went round checking how we can help the youth. Many youths in this country are just staying at home and they are doing nothing. So, I support this Motion because it will go a long way with the youth fund that we are coming up with in helping the youths to get skills so that they can be competitive in this country. When you look at what has been happening in Kenya over the years, we have been emphasizing on white collar jobs where everybody wants to work in an office as a
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I wish to support this Motion and also thank hon. Njenga for bringing it forth. Issues concerning the youth have been properly addressed now in the Constitution. Article 55 mandates the State to take affirmative measures to ensure that the youth access education and training. As such, this Motion seeks to actualize what our Constitution states. I have several reasons for supporting this Motion. For so many years, the attitude of the citizens of this country has not been the best. It has always been considered that those who fail to make it to secondary school are failures. My position is that if proper funding is availed to the youth, it will take care of the wrong attitude that has been in existence for quite some time. Once this Motion is passed, I believe the attitude of most people in this country will change and everybody will be there to support the youth. If this Motion is passed and implemented for that matter, we will be taking steps towards promoting the talents of our young men. I agree that not everybody in this world is an âAâ material. There are those who have a passion for other things. There those who can do carpentry or tailoring at their best. We also have good masons. Once the polytechnics are properly funded and things go on well, then we will provide an opportunity for our youth to realize their talents. Besides that, we are also looking at creating employment. Most of the courses that are offered in our village polytechnics take about two or three years. However, by the time a student is in his second year, he is able to do a few things. Now that we have control of CDF money and others, we should use this opportunity to give work to the youth in those polytechnics. It will not be right for us here to just shout and yet, the youth who have proven to be good in carpentry are not given an opportunity to make furniture
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I first want to thank hon. Francis Njenga for bringing this Motion on the Floor. My constituency is one of those that have been affected by that kind of problem. Many youth after completing Standard Eight or Form Form and do not get good grades stay back at home. At our place, there are very few sponsors or donors who can assist the youth to go to colleges and other places. If we have in place those kinds of loans, they will enable our youth to join Jua
. We know that Jua Kali has contributed a lot to this country. It has created jobs for the youth. When we train our youth in areas of plumbing, mechanics, carpentry and so on, they will create jobs for themselves. The white collar jobs are very few in this country.
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. As we discuss this Motion I would like to raise an issue under Standing Order No.32. I seek your guidance. I would like this House to discuss a matter of national importance, where the lecturers of public universities---
Order, hon. Member! I do not think it is an opportune time to do that. Probably, you will have to approach the Chair for guidance on that particular issue.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I was saying that if we train the young men in areas like carpentry, plumbing and mechanics, they will create jobs for themselves. Nowadays, we do not have white collar jobs and, as a result, many youths are out there committing crimes because they are jobless. Where I come from, 75 per cent of the youth after Standard Eight or Form Four revert to pastoralism and look after their livestock. That way, the Free Primary Education will not have any impact. We need to help the youth to attain another level. In Turkana Central, there is a polytechnic that was built by Norwegian People Aid. They put up a very good structure, but there is nothing inside. We have equipment for training and buildings, but we lack teachers and funding. I wish the Government would fund such institutions which are already built by donors. My suggestion is that, instead of making it a loan, we make it a grant. That is because we already have Uwezo Fund, which is another loan. If we continue giving loans, we are going to overburden the youth. I would suggest that we amend this Motion so that we talk of a grant and not a loan so that we can help the youth to start life. That will lessen the burden of the youth. Some of the youth might not get loans for lack of assurance. Finally, if we encourage that, we are going to have innovation. The things we have here are manufactured by primary or high schools students in China and Korea. We will encourage innovations and discoveries. Our youth will be in a position to come up
Very well. Hon. Wangamati.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. I rise to support this Motion and also congratulate hon. Francis Njenga for bringing it at this time of need. I just want to agree with or support the sentiments which have been expressed by our fellow Members of Parliament that we need to train our youth on the work that is being done in our communities. Of course, we need artisans in our communities so that we can develop our areas. During our days, when I was a student, we used to have what we call rural training schools. I want to tell Members that I went through a rural training school. That was in 1957/1958.
I was trained as an artisan. I was even trained on making bridges in those days. Those schools were run by missionaries. So, Members of Parliament, what you are discussing is very important. You know very well that missionaries were running teacher training colleges also, when the Government in those days was not ready to take them over.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am trying to think that this Motion is reviving the best education we used to have in our days. This is because I got that education and even now I have my small contract where I build houses and roads from the time I left college. I am still doing this and I want to tell Members of Parliament that you now have the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF). CDF could be like missionaries in those days.
Hon. Wangamati, 1957 is about 56 years ago. Are you sure about your mathematics? Anyway, proceed.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to tell you that in 1957, I had completed my primary school. I was now going to the rural training school. We used to call it Standard Eight. I did my Kenya Advanced Primary Education (KAPE). I did not get a chance to go to a teacher training college which was the best. I did not get a chance to go to Railways Training School which was the best. So, I left that school in 1959. I took two years there. In 1960, I was employed.
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Hon. Arati, you have a point of order.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I want to really know if hon. Wangamati is in order to give us this story whereas he knows very well that he would have even paved way for the young in his village. He should have retired.
That is totally out of order. Hon. Arati, I am not going to allow you to go in that direction. No! Order, hon. Arati now! Order! That is totally out of order and hon. Arati, I do not think we need to trivialise debate in this House. You know for sure that you are really treading on very dangerous grounds. Proceed, hon. Wangamati. In fact, I think we should be thinking about what we said yesterday â respecting seniority.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I also thank you Members of Parliament for giving me that honour. I even want to tell him that I went to Mawego Rural Training School. It is down there in South Nyanza in Kisii. In those days, we used to call it Kisii District. So, I am saying that CDF has done a lot in this country and Members of Parliament should be proud when we talk about CDF. I think this is the only way to reach---
On a point of information, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
I think Members are beginning to really interrupt debate here. What information do you have and who requires that information? Does the Chairman need it? Well, he has said nothing but let me assume that the silence means consent. So, proceed and give him the information as briefly as possible.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, thank you for the permission. I am provoked by hon. Simba. Kenya has come a long way to be where we are. There are those who have made contributions to achieve what we have today. For the record, hon. Wangamati has suffered for Kenya to achieve what we have today. He has lived outside the country and even inside the country hiding like an animal.
Honourable, I do not know whether that is still information because I doubt if hon. Wangamati would require being informed that he actually suffered for this country.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want to put it across for the record that for those who do not know Wangamati, he has made major contributions and we need to respect him and those others who have made such contributions for Simba to get a chance to be in this august House.
Order! Well, for respect, I agree with you but for information, I think that was not a point of information. I mean I do not know who you are informing but proceed hon. Wangamati.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Thank you Members of this honourable House. I am happy to hear that. I just want to say that I support this Motion and CDF can be used to put up village polytechnics. I am sure if that is done, we are going to have well trained young people to take over the rural development in our country.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Very well. Hon. Kisang.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this Motion. This Motion is timely. I know the Jubilee Government policy is to have, at least, one technical training institute in each county and one technology centre of excellence in each of the counties. For that to be achieved, I believe that the fund is going to assist the youth. We know that if you cannot transit from primary school to secondary school, it is because of lack of school fees. If we set aside the funds â the 1% of our revenue â to assist the youth to acquire loans so that they may go to colleges and read, this will assist them to get skills. Some of us have also benefited from the Higher Education Loans Board (HELB) and we have been repaying those loans. HELB has gone a long way in assisting those who are joining universities. If that Fund is set up, it will help our youth to get skills. If you go to the constituencies, especially Marakwet West which I represent, we have built very many schools, health centres and dispensaries. But we travel all the way from Marakwet to Eldoret Town to get skilled labour to make fabricated windows and doors because we do not have welders. We also do not have plumbers. So, the Fund will create employment for our youth in the constituencies because those skills will be acquired locally. That will ensure that the money that we use will circulate within the constituencies.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, secondly, the Fund will help reduce insecurity. As one of the Members has said, when our youth complete Standard Eight after sitting the Kenya Certificate of Primary Education (KCPE) and are unable to proceed to secondary school, they idle around, get drunk and eventually involve themselves in insecurity. They steal because there is nothing else to do. However, they will be active if they join colleges and youth polytechnics. They will get some skills and do some work to generate money for themselves.
In order for us to achieve Vision 2030, we need to do something for the youth so that they can also contribute meaningfully to our GDP by working on the ground. This Fund will also help create employment for our youth. We know that 65 per cent of our population is below 35 years. Those who are between 14 years and 35 years are about 50 per cent. This is the group that would have left Standard Eight and there is nothing they do. In order for them to be busy doing some work, we need to set up the Fund. I urge the Mover of this Motion that as soon as we pass it - because I believe that all Members will support it - he moves to the next stage and makes it a Bill so that we get
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. First, I want to thank the Mover of this Motion for bringing this Motion which is very timely and very important for this country. It is evident that the Government has spent a lot of money in developing human resource right from free primary school education through secondary school bursaries and scholarships. Therefore, it is very important for the Government to make a follow up on all those investments. This will inform the need for the Government to make proper planning for future educational trend in this country.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is also need for the Government to strengthen the middle-level colleges because they act as incubators for technological growth for the entire country. Therefore, the habit of transforming middle-level colleges into universities should be brought to a halt. If the Government wants to put up a public university, it does not necessarily have to convert an existing middle-level college into one. The Government has ways of raising money and it should put up those institutions instead of converting the already existing colleges which have their own unique roles and duties in the society.
One of the reasons why I support this Motion is because most of the students who sat KCSE or about 90 per cent do not make it to universities. The Government must be worried about where the 90 per cent will go and not the 10 per cent who have already got admission into the universities because they are assured of their future. Therefore, there is need for the Government to make sure that there is a polytechnic in every constituency which it funds. The money should be channeled through the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF).
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want to challenge the proponents of the current devolution. Most of them think that devolution means taking money to the county. To me, that perception is very wrong. For devolution to be effective, that money must be taken to the constituency, ward and sub-location. Therefore, stuffing a lot of money with the county governor is in itself a disservice to this country. We must find a way of channeling this money to the grassroots. That is because most of those governors do not have financial managerial skills and their capacity to handle a lot of money is questionable. Therefore, the Mover of this Motion has thought very well. I support the idea of devolving that money to the constituencies.
With those few remarks, I beg to support this Motion.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also want to take this opportunity to thank the Mover of this Motion. From the outset, I would like to say that we are not getting very well what a House or Parliament in a pure presidential system is supposed to do. This Motion is timely and it is very good but I want us to remove this aspect--- I think we have heard your guidance in the past that this House cannot keep on âurging the Governmentâ. I want us to replace this with âthis House resolvesâ. That is because when we say that we âurge the Governmentâ, the question is: Who is the âGovernment? The Government is you because the National Assembly is--- Let us not confuse the issue of the Executive. We are part of the Government of the
I heard hon. Otucho saying something on gender and so I now recognize hon. (Ms.) Chidzuga. Hon. Members, because we are getting to the tail end of this discussion, and I can see there is a lot of interest, probably we could contribute briefly so that others can get a chance.
Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda, nachukua hii nafasi kumpongeza Mhe. Njenga kwa kuleta Hoja hii. Hoja hii imekuja kwa wakati unaofaa hasa tukiangalia kule mashinani kati ya vijana wetu. Kusema kweli, vijana wanastahili kutengewa pesa za kutosha katika Bajeti ya Kenya, kinyume na vile ilivyo leo kwa sababu kwanza, wao ni wengi na pili, mahitaji yao yamekuwa zaidi haswa kwa wale ambao wametoka mashule kabla ya kumaliza elimu kwa sababu ya ukosefu wa pesa. Wameshindwa kuendeleza masomo yao. Kwa hivyo, nafikiri hizo pesa zikitengwa, zitasiadia. Nawaomba Waheshimiwa wenzangu kuwa kila wanapozungumza, wale ambao wanashikilia constituencies, hujitaja wao peke yao na wanatusahau sisi ambao constituency zetu ni lile jimbo. Tunaomba hizo pesa zipatikane lakini hata na sisi tupate
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand to support this Motion. First, the youth of this country are the major contributors of the vote of hon. Members. I am sure that all of us have come here through the assistance of the youth. I would like us to address this matter seriously because a good number of youth, particularly when they leave primary school or secondary school, there are so many dropouts. So wherever you go to every village, you will see a large number of such youth. I remember when I go to my constituency, Belgut, for example and to a market like Sosiot, out of about 30 people who receive me there, 70 per cent are the youth. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, at times you are perplexed and you ask yourself what you are going to do with the youth. When you talk to them they tell you to assist them. Now, how can you assist the youth? This Motion will go a long way in promoting the youth and giving them skills. The youth are very innovative, the way I have seen them when I move around the constituency. I recall that during the campaign time I visited at least two young people who were operating radio stations. I could not imagine how these school dropouts could come up with a radio station. Although it could not cover a large area, at least it covered three to four kilometres. I realized that these people could be assisted financially and trained first, because they had no funds for training. If they were assisted through institutions like the polytechnics, where they would learn science and technology, definitely we would boost their skills in various fields in which they have talent. This country would stand a better chance in future. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, actually, we have bombs in the waiting. If you leave the youth without giving them training, the consequences will be very serious. They engage in anti-social behavour. You will find that, perhaps, the Provincial Administration and other leaders saying that the youth of a given area have caused havoc in one way or another, but it is not the youth; it is us who are failing as a Government to institute measures to promote youth welfare. We should promote them by giving them more money. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I know this Motion is going to be passed, from the mood of the House, nut the question is whether it is going to be implemented. We should resolve that the youth be assisted or financed to train, so that they have more skills. I am very happy with some of the counties. I come from a county where majority of the youth have skills in fields like carpentry, welding, name them. Honestly, I must say thanks to counties like Kisumu, where a majority of the youth are our contractors; this is because Kisumu people invested more in polytechnics. If we visited all counties, we would find a county with only one polytechnic; if they are more than one, then they are
Thank you very much, hon. Speaker. I rise to support this Motion by hon. Francis Kigo Njenga with regard to not just empowering our youth really, but to totally put devolution at the core of development in this country; we should ensure that all the key educational institutions, particularly technical institutions, are well funded, equipped and equitably distributed in the country and at the constituency level. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, this Motion addresses a fundamental issue in the education sector, that is the issue of shifting the paradigm from the white collar kind of jobs to self-employment and development of entrepreneurial skills. It is at this stage where we are really talking about decolonization of our education system. Without belabouring the point, many hon. Members have talked about the low transition rates from primary schools to the university. I think where there is a huge wastage of our youth is at the tertiary education level, where many of the current institutions that offer tertiary education have been left in the hands of the private business people, who do not take into consideration market demand. They concentrate on short- term courses that do not really add value to our youth. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, it is interesting to find that, indeed, today you find that a lot of middle level colleges in this country offer diploma courses in a period not exceeding three months. I ask myself what kind of a diploma one can acquire in 100 days; they get out of college and go to the labour market, where they are not able to compete with a diploma holder from the Singapore Institute of Technology, who takes not less than two years to acquire a diploma in a given field or a graduate from China or South Korea. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, if you look at some of the key growth areas of this economy, as we go towards achieving Vision 2030, we know that sectors like construction, automobile industries and mobile telephony will continuously require people with modern skills who can provide the basic and medium level service support. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, if you look at the construction taking place in this country today, whether it is of road or housing, many of the artisans are actually foreigners. We see a lot of them on our roads, or in the real estate. Then the question to ask ourselves is where the Kenyan youth are, who are wielders, masons, carpenters, fitters, electricians, painters, tile layers and so on. Therein lies the tragedy of our nation. We have a huge chunk of the youth who really do not have any technical skills that they can use for self-employment, yet at the same time we expect that through some kind of miracle we shall be able to create jobs for them. That is not going to be possible. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, regarding the establishment of these technical polytechnics at the constituency level, the key issue should be the relevance of the curriculum to be provided in these technical institutions. If I go to most current village polytechnics--- I would not be surprised if I went to Magwego Technical Institute, to which hon. Wangamati went, to find that the T940 Engine which he used is probably
Hon. Anyanga, you should be winding up now. It is about time you concluded.
Much obliged hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. The key message here is that the relevance of these colleges must be in line with the requirements of the labour market. Therefore, as we train our youth, they must be relevant, not just in Kenya but within the region and globally.
It is now time for the Mover to reply. Ye, hon. Njenga.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want to donate a minute each to the following hon. Members: hon. Aburi, Esther, Gladys, Nderitu and Kiptui.
Okay. Hon. Aburi.
Asante sana Bw. Naibu Spika wa Muda. Ninaunga mkono Hoja hii. Ninakumbuka kwamba wakati wa Kibaki aliweka pesa nyingi sana katika Banki ya Equity ili zisaidie vijana. Si vijana wote walifaidika kutokana na zile pesa. Kwa mfano, katika jamii ya Wameru, wakati wa vita baada ya kura za mwaka wa 2007/2008, mabasi yalibeba vijana kutoka Eldoret wakamwagwa huko Meru katika mji wa Kolomone. Waliletwa na basi zaidi ya tano. Asubuhi yake waliamkia kwenda kwa Banki ya Equity pale Makutano na tawi lingine karibu na Msikiti Mjini Meru. Kila mmoja wa wale vijana alipata Kshs50,000, ambazo walitumia kununua bidhaa za uchuuzi. Naibu Spika wa Muda, vijana wetu ambao walikuwa wanafanya kazi ya uchuuzi kule Meru, wote waliondolewa! Wengine ambao walikuwa wanafanya kazi kama vinyozi pia waliondolewa wote. Kabila moja pekee ndilo lilifaidika kutokana na pesa za vijana. Kama pesa za vijana zinakuja, ni lazima ziwafaidi vijana kutoka Kenya nzima lakini si kabila moja. Ninaunga mkono.
Asante sana kwa kunipatia nafasi hii ili nichangie Hoja hii. Vijana wanapotajwa, akina mama na sisi kama wazazi tunafurahi kuona kuwa hawatapotelea mitaani. Tunapowasomesha vijana wetu, mambo kama kunywa pombe, wizi na kukaa mitaani bila kazi yanaisha. Ningetaka kuunga mkono Hoja hii kwa sababu tukiwasomesha vijana, watapata kazi ya kufanya. Kuna vijana ambao wanataka kusoma sana, lakini peza zinawaletea shida. Kwa hivyo, ninaomba tuungane mkono kama Serikali ili tuwasaidie vijana wetu, na tuwatoe mitaani ili tupate madaktari na mawakili wa kesho. Ninaunga mkono.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Judging from the enthusiasm that Members have in this Motion, it shows that they have the youth in their hearts. The problem is that we have talked and talked; we had another Motion by hon. Njomo that talked about having industrial training, but it seems that we never go beyond that. Those who are a bit old like me, and did the CPE examination, and those who got the highest marks went to technical schools. We had secondary schools that offered very specialized courses. When they left Form Four, they were very well trained.
Your one minute is over. Hon. Njenga said that he was also donating another minute to hon. Gladys, but Gladys is not in the House. You might have been talking about Danita.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Motion and really congratulate hon. Njenga. I believe this country has enough resources for everyone. I come from a county where I have to traverse six counties before I reach my Migori County. From Nairobi all the way to the Isebania border you see the face of unemployment, crime and despair in the youth. I wish to support this Motion and say that we have many young people who do not make it to institutions of higher learning like universities. Having a Fund that is specifically aimed at funding young people to start businesses after undergoing training in youth polytechnics is very important. I would urge that even the county governments that we have now be compelled to make sure that in their employment, they should consider youths from the polytechnics and other local institutions of learning. This is a very timely Motion and I wish to support it, so that we can help our young people.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I wish to thank hon. Njenga for moving the Motion. I also wish to support this Motion. When I was campaigning, I came face to face with the despair which our young people have fallen prey to. As a result of lack of employment, most of the youth have given up and have gone into abusing drugs and alcohol. I urge the Members of this House that as much as we talk of improving technical institutions and enabling the youth to access training, we need to give the youth hope. We need to engage with them. When we go to our constituencies, I pray that every one of us gets time to spend with the young people and tell them that there is hope ahead, so that they do not get discouraged and waste away their lives by abusing drugs and alcohol. I support the idea that we need middle level colleges. We also need to fund the youth, so that they can access the college education. I beg to support.
Hon. Cheboi): One minute is over. Proceed, hon. Njenga and you have only two and a half minutes.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I wish to thank all the Members who have supported this Motion from across the divide. One of the requests that has been made is to put this into a Bill. I will start working on it from today. My consulting legal leader, hon. Namwamba, is already on the computer working on it. I am sure with this, the motionless energy of the youth is going to be kinetic. It will generate some heat.
Hon. Members, kindly do not leave the Chamber, otherwise we will lose quorum and, therefore, be unable to put the Auestion. I am asking the Members not to leave.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. So, once that motionless energy generates heat, we will go the Korea, China and Taiwan way. We shall
Members, before I put the Question, there has been a trend where the Movers of Motions donate almost all their time, and then it becomes very difficult for them to wrap up. Future Movers should consider just donating a few minutes and leaving themselves enough time to wrap up well.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, aware that smallholder farmers living in the buffer zone around the Mount Kenya National Park and Forest Reserve have struggled for years with the elephants that regularly invade their land and destroy their crops, which is a costly affair for these smallholder farmers where livelihoods are often lost in a single night raid; concerned that hardly a day goes by without an incident occurring between farmers and the elephants in the area; noting that Elephants from the park easily stray outside its perimeters and cause damage to crops, domestic animals and homes, and even injury and death; and further aware that the Kenya Wildlife Serviceâ compensation mechanism is wanting and unsatisfactory, giving only Kshs. 200,000 for death and Kshs.50,000 for injury and nothing for crop or property damage, this House urges the Government to enhance the claim for persons killed from the current Kshs.200,000 to Kshs.1,000,000 and for those injured from Kshs.50,000 to Kshs.200,000 and also consider compensating farmers for destroyed crops and property based on value. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, the Motion touches on two important sectors in our economy. Tourism is one of the highest foreign exchange earner in the economy of Kenya. It contributes a substantial percentage in the foreign exchange, actually over 50 per cent of what we usually earn from exports. What normally attracts tourists to our country is not really our white sand beaches; it is not the beautiful valleys and the mountains because all these can be found in other parts of the world; it is not the vegetation, say the forests, because those can also be found in other parts of the world,
Thank you so much. Member for Narok South, can you intervene? Just press the intervention button. Yes, Korei ole Lemein.
Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to second this Motion. As it has been said clearly by the Mover of the Motion, tourism contributes a lot to the economic development of this country. In 2013, this sector brought in Kshs96 billion to the Kenyan Gross Domestic Product (GDP). Therefore, it is very important for the people who are living near areas bordering wildlife to be looked after by the Government. The trend has been that in case of death the compensation by KWS has been Kshs200,000; it is even a problem for these people to get this money. A classical example is a very small area in my constituency, Oldoyorasha. From the year 2000 to last year, 12 persons lost their lives and the Government compensated each death at only Kshs200,000. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, you cannot compare Kshs200,000 with the injuries they suffered. These people were each compensated Kshs50,000. I want to concur with Hon. Onesmus Njuki that most of these persons really do not care about
I am informed that there is a Member who is requesting to contribute. This is his maiden speech. Hon. David Karithi, where are you? I sympathize with your situation. I will give you the chance to speak uninterrupted as you give your maiden speech after six months or so. It is four months. Just press your intervention button.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to deliver my first speech in this House. Let me start by congratulating you and my fellow Members who were elected or nominated to this House.
I also thank Tigania West people for demonstrating their confidence in me and electing me as their Member of Parliament.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, with your permission, I will now highlight a few important things about Tigania West Constituency, which I represent. As you may be aware, this constituency has many challenges, some of which are as a result of neglect by past regimes. It is discouraging that even the Jubilee Government has not made any substantive State appointment from Tigania West, which supported it overwhelmingly. Other challenges include poor infrastructure and lack of adequate water for agriculture and domestic use. There is also the issue of cattle rustling by neighbouring communities. We have squatters in my constituency who came into being as a result of Meru University. Those squatters were promised by previous Governments that they would be compensated but they have not been compensated.
We also have the problem of title deeds. We have no title deeds in my constituency, yet land is a very important factor of production. Without this document, people cannot engage in any meaningful activities. I, therefore, appeal to the Government, through the relevant Ministries, to intervene quickly to end the suffering of innocent Kenyans, especially in Tigania West.
Order, hon. Karithi. Now I understand why this is your maiden speech.
You do not donate your minutes; you have no minutes to donate when you are on your maiden speech. Are you through?
Yes, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Thank you, I hope now every hon. Member has contributed. We do not want to close the Session without some hon. Members contributing. Let us go back to the discussion at hand. Where is hon. (Ms.) Chae? If you go for tea, please remove your card, so that the next hon. Member can participate in the debate. We will, therefore, have hon. (Ms.) Munene. I am sure you come from Mt. Kenya, and so you can contribute to this matter effectively.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion because I come from Mt. Kenya, where we have so many animals. I would also like to thank hon. Njuki because so many people are suffering as a result of the animals; as a country we want our tourism to thrive. As you know, Mt. Kenya has so many animals and many people are killed while some are injured. I live next to the forest and I see animals going out and so many crops are spoilt, yet nobody compensates the owners. When people do not have food, we will have many problems; so, we want to urge the House to pass this Motion. The injured are given Kshs200,000 for treatment yet we know that medical care is very expensive. Although we are saying it is free, when you go to hospital to be treated or operated on, that money cannot be enough. I ask this House to allocate more money to this. The KWS must understand that the life of a human being is very important. They must do something. When animals stray out of the national parks into peoplesâ homes and farms, KWS officers do not respond quickly. Buffalos and cheetahs come out and attack our children as they go to school. So, we should pass this Motion. We should allocate more money for medical expenses. Medical care is very expensive, especially when a person is injured and is going to be operated on leg, a hand or any other body part. I support the Motion and urge the House to pass it. The people whose crops are destroyed by the animals should also be compensated. In the past, I was a wheat farmer. One day, when I went to harvest, I found that elephants had been there the whole night and I did not get even a seed. I ask the Government to support this Motion and increase the compensation, so that farmers can farm and get food for this country. I support the Motion.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this very important Motion; I want to thank the hon. Member for bringing this Motion to the Floor of this House. Indeed, the destruction and harm caused by wildlife to the lives of many Kenyans and the damages caused to the farms is something that cuts across the country. In many instances, it brings human-wildlife conflict, causing very regrettable deaths of either people or animals, which, as we know, are a source of income to our nation in the sense that they are an attraction to many tourists, who come to our country. I want to say that this problem is not only limited to the Mt. Kenya area. In my constituency, Balambala, I happen to border two important national parks, namely Kora National Park and Rahole National Reserve, to which---
Order, hon. Members! We have digital systems which work. Have trust in them!
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if my friend does not have his card, I can kindly accept information. I was saying that my constituency borders two of the larger national parks, namely Kora National Park and Rahole National Game Reserve, from which I must say stray animals have often caused death and destruction to many of my people. There are, indeed, people to this very day living with very serious injuries caused by attacks by wild
Thank you so much. Hon. Chachu Ganya, do you have an intervention?
Yes, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Thank you for this opportunity. I want to draw the attention of my colleagues, and the House to a Bill which has been published, called the Wildlife Conservation (Amendment) Bill, 2013. It might be here for First Reading today or tomorrow. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am a Member of the Environment and Natural Resources Committee, and they have given a lead on this Bill to my Committee. What we are debating has been fully catered for in this Bill. Part IV of the Bill is on establishment of Wildlife Endowment Fund and Compensation Scheme. There are policies in our Bill for compensating persons for all kinds of injuries, damage to their properties or their crops. The amounts for compensation are even more than what is proposed in this Motion. Therefore, I am just telling my colleagues that once the Bill is brought to this House today or tomorrow, look at it; if you want it amended, there will be an opportunity. It is a very good Bill, in terms of looking at all the issues of conservation in this country; it is from peoplesâ perspective. The Bill has got a human face; it will really take care of Kenyans, and provide an opportunity for the House to amend it, as it wishes, to increase the penalties. There are all kinds of penalties. So, I think we have an opportunity; even with a Motion, we have a Bill which is there already. Yesterday, as a Committee, we met the Cabinet Secretary for Environment, Water and Mineral Resources and all his officers. They took us through the Bill. I think, as House, you will have an opportunity to amend the Bill, or to come to the Committee and make your presentation. Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Thank you, hon. Chachu Ganya. Hon. Members, I want to thank hon. Chachu Ganya for the intervention that he has given. You know Article 42, as read with Article 69--- If you apply your mind to them and what they provide, some of the issues that are raised in this Bill may as well be corrected by relying on the provisions of those articles. But this was an intervention, I
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Remember you are on a point of order. So, you only have few minutes to argue your point of order.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I must thank hon. Chachu for the clarification even though I sit in the same committee with him. So, I am quite conversant with the issues at hand about the Wildlife Bill that has been published.
My view would be that even though the Wildlife Bill is just about to be tabled in the House any time from now, I would suggest that the Motion as moved by the Member be processed to its fullness, so that we can dispose of it. That Motion will not have any negative effect on the Bill as published. It can only enrich the discussions that will ensue once the Bill is tabled on the Floor of the House. If you allow me, I will then proceed and contribute to the Motion.
You are completely out of order. Resume your seat, hon. Wandayi. We have understood the gist of your contribution. The issue, as I understand it, is that the issues raised by hon. Onesmus will be superfluous when the Bill comes for the debate and when it is finally debated. The question is: Why would we waste a lot of the National Assemblyâs time to go through all these processes and then come back to the Bill and the Members will ventilate the same issues? If the Mover is satisfied that the Bill carries everything that he is bringing in the Motion, because a Motion is really a statement, then we can decide otherwise. It is a resolution of the House but which urges the Government to do certain things. But the Bill culminates into an Act of Parliament which becomes law and forces the Government to do exactly what is required. I am just entertaining a little discussion on this issue as we dispose of it.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I actually wanted even to come up with an amendment, but since we have been told there is a Bill, which I have with me, I want to look at it and see what it is talking about. The Motion has come at the right time, but since the Bill is there, we can wait to debate the Bill. My concern was in terms of compensation. The farmers should be compensated. They are poor.
I want you to be relevant to the issue that we are now dealing with, which is how we dispose of the Motion which is before us in light of the intervention by hon. Chachu that there is a Bill that is coming before this House for debate. Debate just that point.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as long as the Bill is there, it is better that we go to its contents.
Members, you are all advised to proceed to the Clerkâs Table, so that we can have all the Bills which are before us. These Bills are published and they are official records and any Kenyan can get them. You
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I did not know that you also have a problem pronouncing my last name. It is actually Ngâongo and you can get it better than the others, which means âbigâ for those who do not know. I would like to thank hon. Chachu for raising that point of order. Truly, throughout the Tenth Parliament, we called for the Wildlife Bill and I am happy to hear that it is just about to find its way to Parliament. I just want to say two things in support of this Motion. The first reason being that usually, Motions are just expressions of intent or an intention to do something. You can urge the Government and then the following day, the Government responds or a Committee of the House responds. So, there is no harm in passing this Motion knowing very well that there will be a Bill tomorrow. That notwithstanding, if you look at the wording of the Motion, it is a bit specific to Mount Kenya, even though the prayer finally would cover the entire country. I have no problem if this House could still go ahead and transact the Motion knowing very well that we will still have a Bill coming to this House. Finally, usually, our rules are that before a matter is formally before the House, we do not treat it as a property of the House. The Bill can still be withdrawn by the Government. Because it has not been officially brought here for the First Reading, we can be blind to the fact it is coming. We can mention that there is a Bill that is likely to find its way here, but it is not formally a property of the House. So, in my view, there is nothing wrong with processing hon. Onesmus Muthomi Njukiâs Motion and we wait for the Bill to come.
Thank you, hon. Ngâongo for your contribution, but referring to the Standing Orders, I want you to look at Standing Order No.85. Standing Order No.85(1) says that:- â(1) It shall be out of order to anticipate the debate of a Bill which has been published as such in the Gazette by discussion upon a substantive Motion or an amendment, or by raising the subject matter of the Bill upon a Motion for the adjournment of the House. (3) In determining whether a debate is out of order on the grounds of anticipation, regard shall be to the probability of the matter anticipated being brought before the House within a reasonable timeâ.
This Bill has been published in the gazette and so, it falls within sub-section 1. I am informed by hon. Chanzu, whose information is correct, that the issues that are being canvassed in the Motion will be the issues in that Bill. So, in terms of probability that the matter will be before the House, I see there is a lot of probability that this matter will be before the House. So, as I invite only two interventions with that direction from the Chair, how does Abdikadir want to intervene?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, first of all, I want to thank hon. Chachu for bringing this to our attention. I want to agree with the other Members who spoke before me, in particular hon. Mbadi, that is it very good that we have this Bill coming our way, but it is not yet properly before this House. For that reason, this debate should be allowed to continue, so that Members can discuss in depth the issues at hand.
Are you able to direct yourself to the Standing Order which I have just read?
Indeed, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to direct myself to the very Standing Order that you read. This Bill is not yet before this House. By the time this Motion was being done, nobody knew that this Bill was on its way or had already been gazetted. The Mover of this Motion was not aware and for that reason, I feel that it is very much in order that this debate continues.
Hon. Abdikadir, I want the Members to help themselves by understanding the Standing Orders and how we proceed. This matter is properly before the Departmental Committee. That is how it reached the level of the Bill and that is how it was published. So, it is properly before the House, but that notwithstanding, the Standing Order does not talk about before the House. It says a Bill which has been published as such in the Gazette . This Bill has been published as such in the Gazette . So, we do not want to make decisions from the Chair. I want you to be persuaded so that we get directions properly.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am a member of the Departmental Committee on Environment and Natural Resources. I want to support the intervention by hon. Chachu Ganya. This Bill is specific on the amount that ought to be paid when it comes to death resulting from wildlife. It proposes to raise the compensation to up to Kshs1 million. This is what has been requested in the Motion. The Bill that has been published also provides for compensation when it comes to damage of crops by wildlife. This Motion is timely. My feeling is that what we are going to discuss in this House will be repeated when we shall be discussing the Bill. I support hon. Chachu on that issue.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I just wanted to seek clarification. In my view, the Bill has not been read the First Time and so it cannot be a property of the House. Even to talk about the Bill is really to anticipate debate. It is in that respect that I suggest that you allow the Motion to continue. This is because the Bill is not properly before us. What is being said now, as far as the House is concerned, is hearsay. Looking at Standing Order No.85 it prohibits anticipating debate of a Bill. So, even to refer to the Bill is out of order, but discussing the Motion is not out of order, in my humble view.
Well, unless we appreciate the English differently, my Standing Orders state clearly that it will be out of order to anticipate debate of a Bill. That Bill is the Wildlife Management and Compensation Bill, 2013 and it has been published in the Gazette. So, my understanding of a clear reading of that Standing Order squarely fits into what the Standing Order anticipates. We do not want to take too long on this matter, hon. Chachu. Are you the Chairman of this Committee?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am not the Chairman; I am a member of the Committee. My intention of informing hon. Members about the Bill was not to stop the debate on this Motion at all. I was just telling my colleagues that there is a Bill which has been published and it is not yet properly before the House because it is
We understand you. Today gives us an opportunity to understand that Standing Order and appreciate it. There is nothing about First Reading. I do not see any First Reading in this Standing Order. What I see is a Bill which has been published in the Gazette.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, we really have to go by the ruling you are going to make. I anticipate that you have already made up your mind that this Bill is properly before this House. I want to ask my colleague who has come up with this Motion that we conserve our energy and time so that we contribute to this Bill. If it does not fit what we are asking for, then we amend it to provide us with what is good and will help this nation. I do not see any reason as to why anybody would want to remove this Bill from the list of Bills which have been proposed. It has gone through the proper channels. It has been published. It is ready and mature to be brought before this House. This House has other business to do as is indicated in the Order Paper. We could continue to do that business as we conserve our energy and time for this Bill to come.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I also rise on a point of order. We have been aware that the Bill is coming. We know that the Bill will become law. It is more committing than passing this Motion. We have been informed that the compensation aspect has been captured better in the Bill than in this Motion. I want to urge hon. Members that we preserve our comments until that time. The Standing Orders are very clear that we are out of order to anticipate debate on that forthcoming Bill. However, if that is not possible, I would propose that we discuss this Motion and not put the Question at the end of it. We could stop and wait for the Bill to come.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. First, I wonder whether these digital things work. I was a bit surprised when you declared mheshimiwa Gumbo to be my senior and yet I know that I am supposed to be his senior. I was already on queue. Nonetheless, this Motion, in my view, is rightly before the House. The published Bill is not before the House. I think we should process this Motion by hon. Njuki to its logical conclusion. The other one will hopefully find us on the way. This is because like hon. Mbadi said we are not even sure whether the published Bill will eventually find its way in the House. If that happens, I think it is only fair that we continue with debate on the Motion before the House. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I do not know if you will now allow me to make my contribution because I have a passion----
No! We want to get this out of the way. Hon. Lati Lelit!
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, when the Mover of this Motion and the seconder left this House, they left me on guard. They told me to take care of this Motion until they come back. You are now putting me in a very awkward situation. I cannot reach them on phone and if they come back and find out that their Motion has been thrown away, I will be the one to answer. The other thing is that Mr. Chachu has been in this House long enough. He is a good friend of mine. Why did he not raise this issue before this Motion was moved? It is
Thank you very much. Resume your seat. We are taking too much on this issue. This is the way we will go and this will be the ruling of the Chair: I cannot see the Mover of the Motion and this being a Motion of a Member which cannot be disposed of unless it is withdrawn or debated, I hereby order that debate will continue notwithstanding the fact that you will repeat yourself when the Bill comes before the House. It is your time and you are Members of the National Assembly. Let us go back to the request list. I think that disposes the interventions. Alfred Kiptoo Keter, you can have the Floor.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to congratulate the Member who has moved this Motion and the seconder. I think it is important that we change the mindset of the colonial Government where wildlife was more important than humans. I remember about two years ago, we lost lives in Kajiado and the Government was more focused on where the lions were and not on how to compensate the lives lost.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, one or two weeks ago, a farmer in Central Province lost sheep. The Kshs50,000 that is meant to be compensation is way less than the value of the property. Equally on that note, when you see the intentions of the interventions, I think it is also important that we focus on bringing more Bills to this House. In as much as it is good to have Motions but they just urge the Government. Bills will become Acts of Parliament and they will be implemented. I want to urge all Members of Parliament to support this Motion. In as much as wildlife is important in this country, the property of Kenyans is more important than wildlife. Thank you so much.
There is a Member called Alice who had an amendment. She is not here? Members, we need to be more serious about how we transact business in this House. I am getting concerned because you have approached me because of your amendment and you are now not here to prosecute your amendment. Okay. We will go on with the debate. Lelelit Lati.
Thank you. I appreciate that. I have been sitting here for a long time. I wanted to speak and I was a little worried when you said that the debate will not go on anymore. For those of us who come from the rural parts of our country where there is abundant wildlife, this is a very important Motion and I want to add my voice in its support. It is a well documented fact that 75 per cent of our wildlife live outside national parks. I grew up herding my fatherâs cows and also elephants by extension and all those animals and it is very hard to imagine how many instances of human-wildlife conflict occur in places like Samburu.
Just last month, there was a swoop by the Provincial Administration on illicit brew in a small town in Samburu. So, people took the illicit brew to the bushes around
All right. Stephen Wachira Karani.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this Motion and before I do that, I want to mention two things. First, I think the Mover needs to rectify a few things because he is talking of elephants. I think we should be dealing with a broad spectrum of wildlife and not elephants alone because our farmers are having problems not only with elephants. Like where I come from in Laikipia West Constituency, I border many ranches owned by the white people and we have a lot of wildlife there. So, we get a lot of problems from animals coming from those ranches to feed on our peoplesâ crops.
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. Thank you for giving me this opportunity. I take this opportunity to thank the Mover of this Motion.
You have stood on a point of order. Can I hear what is out of order?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, my intervention is that I want to propose some amendments to the Motion. The Motion should be amended---
Order! I have received your intended amendment but we do not have quorum to transact an amendment. So, you can talk to the Majority Leader or the Minority Leader. You can also see whether you can whip a few Members to enter into the Chamber because I am not in a position to put that Question. We will proceed with the debate.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. I have been waiting the whole morning and I was very worried that you were going to curtail our discussion. Although we have a Motion coming, I think this is an extremely important debate. There is a monumental or grand conflict between wildlife and people. We have agriculture which is the mainstay of our economy. We also have wildlife that is mainstay of our tourism and at the same time we have a growing population and there is dwindling of arable land per capita. So, we are happy that a Bill
Shukrani Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda. Nilikuwa nadhani sitapata muda wa kuongea kwa sababu nimengoja sana. Nasimama kuunga mkono Hoja hii. Kwa kweli, sheria ilikumbuka wanyama pori ikasahau binadamu. Wanyama pori wamekuwa kero kubwa sana katika eneo la uwakilishi Bungeni la Mwatate na vile vile Jimbo la Kaunti ya Taita Taveta. Wiki mbili zilizopita, simba walikula mbuzi zaidi ya kumi na ngâombe zaidi ya tano, mali ya mkaaji wa eneo la uwakilishi Bungeni la Mwatate. Ni nadra sana mvua kunyesha katika maeneo hayo. Wakaaji wa hayo maeneo wanawategemea tu hao wanyama wa kufuga. Msimu huu uliopita, mvua ilinyesha vizuri na watu wakapanda mimea yao sawa sawa. Lakini baada ya muda mfupi, ndovu waliharibu hiyo mimea yote. Hata sijui tutafanya nini. Maanake nikiangalia huku, mshahara umempunguzwa kidogo na Serem na hatuna hata kiwanda kimoja kule. Kwa jumla, wanyama wa pori wameumiza watu wengi. Mzee mmoja aliumizwa na ndovu. Ako na watoto shuleni lakini hawezi kufanya shughuli yoyote kwa sababu amelemaa. Akienda kutafuta fidia kutoka KWS, hakuna kitu ambacho kinapatikana. Hoja hii ni nzuri sana na ningeomba tuangalia Mswada ambao utaletwa hapa Bungeni ili tuweze kutatua shida ya wanyama wa pori na binadamu. Tunafaa kuangalia vile binadamu wanavyoweza kufaidika wakati wameumizwa au mimea yao imeharibiwa na wanyama wa pori. Hii inafaa kuwa sambamba kama vile binadamu akiumiza wanyama. Hawa wanyama wameishi na binadamu kwa muda mrefu na sio kuwa wana akili kuliko binadamu. Ninavyoongea sasa, wakaazi wa eneo Bunge langu wanauliza watafanya nini kama watu wa KWS hawasikii na watatumia njia gani kuwamaliza wanyama. Kama unavyofahamu, njia ni nyingi. Ingawaje tunafahamu kuwa wanyama pori wana faida kwa upande wa utalii, hawa watu ambao wanakaa na wanyama pori katika eneo hilo, hawafaidiki kwa njia yoyote kutokana na utalii. Kwa jumla, kuna matatizo mengi kati ya wanyama pori na binadamu.
Thank you, hon. Mwadime. I do not know if hon. Mbadi got the Kiswahili vocabulary.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity. I want to thank the Mover of this Motion and, at the same time, the Mover of the anticipated Bill. As a nation we value wildlife so much because it earns us foreign exchange. It is, however, high time we struck a balance between human beings and wildlife. The animals should not only be conserved for tourism but also for our generations to come. It is only that way that our offspring will see lions and elephants. The current human-wildlife conflict is going to wipe out the wildlife and yet, that is not the route we want to go. On the Bill that is anticipated, the originators of it should be careful to appreciate animals---
Order, hon. Mwadime! Could you, please, go to the Bar and do what you must do before you talk to the gracious lady?
Hon.Temporary Deputy Speaker, this Motion addresses more Mount Kenya issues, but the issues that have been so far raised affect the whole country. The Bill will be in a position to reflect this matter broadly.
In my constituency, we have a national park that was gazetted in 1989, but the development of it has taken a while; reason being conflict in the area and so on. One other reason that has seen the under-development of that national park is the human- wildlife conflict. The issue of compensation for life lost, animals mauled and crops damaged is a big issue. People are normally arrested for trespassing into the parks. With the coming of this Bill, we are happy as a county that this will be put to rest and the pace at which we will develop the park will be accelerated. We want to develop the national parks at Malkamari and Banisa. I went through the current Act and I realized that it has a lot of shortcomings. I want to urge the originators of the Bill to come up with something meaningful. We need to redefine âdangerous animalsâ. If the Act defines them as wild animals, I believe infringement upon their habitat will attract a penalty. I would suggest that all those
Hon. Gimose, could you please take just a few minutes since most of your minutes will be in the afternoon? Could you take say four minutes?
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to support this Motion. Human-wildlife conflict in this country is as old as creation. The conflict has been continuous, persistent and measures should be taken to ward off human- wildlife conflict. This is not only the preserve of Mount Kenya or areas in which the animals roam like Narok and so on. In my constituency, we have a serious issue of monkeys and baboons which equally cause unnecessary conflict and, in fact, are a nuisance to my people.
So, this is an issue that should be taken seriously. It is an issue that the Government must urgently put in place measures to stem the conflict and this is by way of increasing and enhancing penalties. I want to support this Motion by saying that human beings should not be subjugated to touristic tendencies where wildlife should be put ahead of the lives of members of the public.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, we remember in history the issues of the man eaters of Tsavo. If I remember very well at that time, the Asians that were consumed when they were constructing the railway line were paid much more compensation than what is being paid to Kenyans who are affected by wildlife or whose crops are destroyed by wild animals. I want to say that in passing this Motion, inflation should be taken into account as far as compensation is concerned so that, in future, the new Wildlife Conservation Act should take into account issues of inflation. That is because the money that is paid to Kenyans who are affected is not paid on time. It takes quite a long period for payments to be effected and that is not good.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, so, I would like to support this Motion by saying that human-wildlife conflict should be a thing of the past in this country. Thank you and I support.
Thank you, hon. Members. The time is up for the morning session. We have to interrupt debate. The House stands adjourned until today afternoon at 2.30 p.m.
The House rose at 12.30 p.m.