On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise on a point of order under this Order on Papers to seek your guidance. Once we dispose of the County Allocation of Revenue Bill which is on the Order Paper, we are required under the Public Finance Management Act to discuss and pass the cash disbursement schedule without which the Controller of Budget will not be able to disburse money. Since we are going on recess, from what I hear, I would like your guidance because the documents have not been forwarded to us for tabling. I know the Treasury has sent the cash disbursement schedule; it is with the Clerk’s office.
We will hold the consultations. I am sure before the end of the day, you will have been guided. Next Order!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have three statements to issue this afternoon. IMPENDING MASSACRE IN TURKANA COUNTY On 16th July, 2014, Sen. Munyes of Turkana County requested for a statement regarding an alleged impending massacre in the county. The hon. Senator sought to be informed on:- One, whether the---
Order, Chairperson! I do not see Sen. Munyes around.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. Munyes was with us when we summoned the Cabinet Secretary. He travelled with the Inspector General to Turkana County. Whether he is here or not, I am sure he will be satisfied with the statement that I will give. But if you direct otherwise--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Our practice so far as been that at least we allow the Member one opportunity to be present. If the Member is persistently absent, then the statement can be issued in his absence. Given that we have a bit of heavy business today, you can try that next time.
Obliged, Mr. Speaker, Sir. ALLEGED IRREGULARITIES IN RECRUITMENT OF POLICE OFFICERS Mr. Speaker, Sir, the other statement was requested by Sen. Daisy Kanainza on the recent recruitment by the National Police Service Commission (NPSC). She sought to be informed---
Order, Chairperson! Neither is she around.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am told that yesterday she said this Committee is very inefficient. It is very sad if she is not here. It will be morally wrong.
Order, Senator! We are just less than ten minutes into business. She might be on her way. I agree with you those sentiments were expressed yesterday. However, that does not mean you should express it the same way.
It is all right, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I look forward to meeting her this afternoon!
CUSTOM BARRIERS AND RESTRICTIONS AT NADAPAL BORDER POST Mr. Speaker, Sir, the other statement is on custom problems at Nadapal-Kenya- Southern Sudan Border.
Who sought that statement?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, unfortunately, I do not have the name here. There is a Senator who requested for this statement. We will look for the Questioner, then I will answer the question sought.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I was concerned about the question by Sen. Kanainza because it was even alleged that she was weeping because she wanted that statement given so quickly and it was so important. We have been anticipating it, particularly in view of the fact that she was weeping, can we get an opportunity to hear this statement?
Order, Sen. Musila! I appreciate your sentiments. You may be right, but I have said we are into our business for less than ten minutes. Let us give her time.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You did not see me earlier on. I wanted to---
Order, Senator! In fact, I saw you, but I had seen Sen. Musila earlier than you. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, mine was in relation to the manner in which the hon. Chairperson for the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations referred to the matter in question because we do not act on hearsay in this House, we act on what we see. The fact that somebody might have told him that the Committee was referred as inefficient---
But it is in the HANSARD!
But it is still hearsay. He was not in the House. I am wondering if he is in order.
Order, Sen. Abdirahman! In fact, before you accuse another Senator, you must check your own record. Some of those issues are on HANSARD. I was also not in the House, but I followed the proceedings.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, but is it really necessary that you make reference when we are in another---
Order! The statement was postponed to today. So, it carries the entire baggage.
But he can as well---
Order, Sen. Abdirahman! Sen. Haji, you do not need to respond to that. The Chair has responded on your behalf. Sen. Khaniri.
I do not have my card.
You know what to do, you can be assisted. SLOW CONSTRUCTION OF THE KISUMU-KAKAMEGA ROAD
Mr. Speaker, Sir, just before we move out of the Order on Statements, about a month ago, four or five weeks ago, I requested for a statement on the progress of construction of Kisumu-Kakamega Road. This statement was supposed to be delivered in two weeks, which is about three weeks ago. The Committee responsible sought for an additional two more weeks. It was supposed to be delivered last week. We are breaking off today and we have not received this statement.
Mr. Chairperson, what do you have to say? Who is Temporary No.3?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is true this statement was to be delivered, but it is not scheduled on the Order Paper. But with your indulgence, I could respond on behalf of the Chairperson.
First, let me get an indication of how many statements are ready.
On that basis, Sen. Khaniri can have his statement. Sen. Obure, you may respond.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on 3rd July, 2014, my friend the Senator for Vihiga County, Sen. Khaniri requested for a statement from the Chairperson of the Standing The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, with a lot of respect for my good friend, the Senator for Kisii County, Sen. Obure, I must say that this is the most unfortunate answer I have ever listened to in this House. From the way this project has been treated and many other projects in the western region where I come from, it is clear that the Jubilee Government has decided to sideline the former Western Province when it comes to development. This project was first launched by former President Mwai Kibaki. The other day, I saw the President purporting to launch a road that was launched 19 months ago by the former President. We wondered; are there no new projects the President can launch in Western Province? Must it be what the former President started? The contract was supposed to take 24 months. So far, it has taken 18 months and they have only done 24 per cent of the project. How possible is it that the remaining 76 per cent of the works will be done in the five months that are remaining? Is it possible? Can the Chairperson tell us why the project has been under funded because the money that has been paid, so far, was paid during the former regime? The project has not received any money in this regime. Could the Chairperson explain why?
Mr. Chairperson, before you respond, I see Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has an intervention.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Government must stop playing games with tax payers. The money that is being used to do this road is not from anybody’s pocket. We pay taxes and we demand services. Could the Chairperson tell us why the work has been delayed? He has only confirmed that the work has been delayed. Why is this the case? Is it because of the contractor or the Government?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree that the work has been delayed. In fact, it is behind schedule by eight months. The contractor attributes the delay to delayed payments. We know that because of the transition arrangements, there were delays which The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Chairperson in order to mislead the House that the reason there was a delay is because of challenges of transition, when we know that we transited from the Kibaki Government to the Uhuru Government smoothly at Kasarani Stadium? So, what are these transition challenges that were there? The Treasury was working, Mr. Njiraini was collecting money through the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) and all the donors were committed to their contracts. What is it that you were talking about? Why are you misleading us? Tell us that you do not want to give roads to Luhyas!
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! You have made your case. Unless you want to answer your own questions! Chairperson, proceed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we know that there were delays. This is a matter which is very well documented. In fact, it has been debated in this House and we have also received assurances that the money is now available. In fact, most of these projects will proceed as initially planned. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this particular contractor was at one point owed more than Kshs140 million and, therefore, could not proceed. However, I am glad that he is now back at work and we hope to see progress on this particular project. Mr. Speaker, Sir, one of the measures being initiated to recover lost time is to sub- contract some of the earthworks in that area and to allow additional support to this particular contractor. He has been asked specifically to work longer hours, including weekends. He has brought in additional crushers to help him raise some of the materials required and we expect concrete work to proceed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is only yesterday that the President launched an ambitious programme of road construction and talked about 10,000 kilometers in say three years to come. Now, you have heard the Chairperson say that a road that was contracted to be finished in January, this year, has only achieved 24 per cent completion. Now, the question I am asking my friend, the Chairperson, and unfortunately, he is the one to answer it, is: At this rate, does he think that this Government will deliver on this programme which we think is just hoodwinking Kenyans that roads are coming and yet they will never come?
Mr. Chairperson, just take a few more interventions.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Sen. Wetangula, I can see you; you are listed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, Government funds need to be protected. If you look at the contract sum, it is Kshs4.4 billion. However, in every payment that is made by the Government, 10 per cent must be retained. With simple mathematics, 24 per cent of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do hope that the Chairperson of the Committee responding to this statement has the capacity to deal with these issues on behalf of this Government. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in addition to the Kakamega-Kisumu Road, that has got so many irritating diversions and has virtually stalled, can the Chairperson tell this House why the following roads in western Kenya have stalled; Kamukuywa-Mt. Elgon-Chwele- Lwakhakha, which he himself, when he was Minister, visited and toured more than five years ago? Sigalagala-Butere Road; stalled! Kakamega-Webuye Road; stalled!
Chavakali-Kapsabet-Eldoret Road; stalled! Webuye-Eldoret Road; stalled! Mr. Speaker, Sir, the road like Kamukuywa-Mt. Elgon-Chwele-Lwakhakha was started two years earlier than the Thika Superhighway. Its cost was Kshs1.2 billion, but it did not go half way. Thika Superhighway was constructed and completed at Kshs38 billion. In the just beginning financial year, there is an allocation of Kshs1.2 billion on Thika Superhighway for maintenance of a brand new road when other roads are stalled. I have not mentioned the road from Kitale-Kapenguria-Lokichar-Lodwar-Nadapal; that is not a road! The Jinja-Bumala-Port Victoria Road is stalled. Virtually every road in western Kenya is stalled. What is the Government programme for the improvement of roads in our region?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me respond as follows. Regarding the promise for more road network, I like to say that within the country, there is capacity to fulfill what the President promised. There is adequate technical capacity in terms of equipment and contractors. That is available within the country. Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is also the assurance that the funds will be made available. I am sure that even based on my experience, if there is capacity and adequate funding, I have no doubt in my mind that the various undertakings made will be fulfilled. Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding the question raised by my leader, the Senate Minority Leader, about a number of road projects in western Kenya which have stalled, the Committee which I represent, the Committee on Roads and Transportation, has actually discussed this matter with the Ministry, the Cabinet Secretary (CS) and all the relevant officers and we have requested for a report. In fact, this report has been made available to us. We were due to meet today to discuss this report, but unfortunately, because of the direction we got from the Chair, the meeting was postponed to another date. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have a full report about all the stalled road projects and the action that is being taken to ensure resumption of works on those projects. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Chairperson has avoided to answer the question by Sen. Wetangula on why Kshs1.2 billion has been put for maintenance of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! You are being unfair to the Chairperson; that was not the question posted by Sen. Wetangula. Sen. Wetangula was just comparing why certain roads seem to be getting more money than others which had even limited funding and were not completed. I think he has said here that there is a report which the Committee has received and it will be discussed with the rest of the House. To me, that seems a more appropriate place to do it. Let us conclude this matter; it is straight forward so that we can proceed to the next statement. Where is the Senate Majority Leader?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
On the same or another one? Sen. (Dr.) Machage, what is your point of order?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the same Committee did promise to give us a statement I requested for today, 31st July, 2014, on the situation of Migori Roads E166 and C13. Would I, therefore, be in order to request that the Chairperson, who has just read a statement for the other question, do the same for my roads in Migori, which happen to be in Western Kenya too?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to confirm to the House that we, in fact, do have the report on that road, together with many other roads that were requested. This is due to be discussed at our Committee. As I indicated earlier, we will bring the report here for discussion so that it can be interrogated properly by all the Senators.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. Kembi-Gitura?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is on the issue of roads, because I think this is a very important issue. When my colleague, Sen. Wetangula, says that roads have stalled in their region and it is reiterated by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I think it is important to tell this House that as the Chairperson has said, roads have stalled everywhere in this country. I can quote more than 10 roads in my county that have stalled or in the whole of that region. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I believe that what we had agreed last time when this matter came up; it was that the Chairperson of that Committee or that Committee would request the CS to come before a full Committee of the Senate with a list of all stalled roads in the country and not in any region, so that we are able to interrogate it and know why. We can keep on asking this question because it appears there are always some regions where roads have stalled. I am on record on HANSARD as having said the same. So, we need to have a clear picture of what is going on in the country. I think this is unfair when it is made to appear like it is only some certain regions where roads are not being built.
Order, Senators! I am not going to allow debate on this matter. I think the Deputy Speaker has made a very good observation; let the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did confirm that the issue of stalled road projects affects every part of the country. I did say so. In fact, the issue arose when we were discussing the question of the stalled projects in the Meru area, a statement which had been sought by the Senator for Meru, hon. Kiraitu Murungi; and also in respect to the airport project at Isiolo. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we did summon the CS and his senior officials to appear before the Committee and we had long discussions. We requested for specific reports on each of the road projects. This has been availed to us. As requested by the Deputy Speaker, the Senator for Murang’a County; if we wish, as a House, to interrogate the CS, I submit to you that it will have to be a direction to be issued by yourself. Under your directions, I am sure he will be obligated to come and discuss the matter with the Senators.
It is so directed because I remember a few weeks ago there was a similar matter. We made reference to a Motion that this House had passed, sponsored by your good neighbour Sen. Musila, where the CS was supposed to make an annual report on the status of roads to the Committee. Now that we have received that report, I direct that you liaise with the office and convene a meeting for all the Senators.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I seek your guidance. Yesterday the President and the Ministry launched 10,000 kilometres of roads that are to be done. I would appreciate if in the discussions, the Committee is going to have with the CS, they do not only discuss that 10,000 kilometres, but also table it for the House to have an opportunity to interrogate that list because it is the first time that 10,000 kilometres across the 47 counties will be done. We want to see how equitably distributed those roads are. We would appreciate if we can also have that tabled for discussion.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to comment on what the Deputy Speaker said, because when I listed the number of stalled roads in western Kenya, at no point did I say that there are no road constructions stalled elsewhere. I simply pointed out roads in western Kenya. For him to jump up and say that I created an impression that roads are good elsewhere simply means that he is confirming my worst fears that, indeed, we are marginalized. Be that as it may, the Chairperson of the Committee has avoided telling this House the rationale and wisdom in putting Kshs1.2 billion maintenance sum on a brand new road when there are roads that are stalled with much less budgetary requirements.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also would like to set the record straight. Our cry that roads in the western region have been neglected is because all the entry points into western region are impenetrable. If you approach from Kisumu, there is no road, Kisumu to Busia, there is no road, Maili Tisa to Kitale, there is no road and Ainabkoi to Kapsabet, there is no road. We have no way of entering the former Western Province for real. Now, when the Deputy Speaker then attempts to compare that situation with what obtains in his place, he should also inform the public that whereas we are talking about trunk roads, he is talking about feeder roads that connect villages and markets in their place. All the trunk roads in his place have been done. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order! I will allow the Deputy Speaker at some stage, not now, to have a bite at it. Let us allow Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo to make his intervention.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am wondering what my colleague Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is lamenting about. He is lamenting about roads which are supposed to be redone; that is, Kitale-Kakamega-Kisumu Road or the Eldoret-Webuye-Bungoma- Busia Road. Indeed, they are being redone. However, I am surprised because some of us do not have anything anywhere near a road.
So, it seriously defeats logic that instead of saying when it can be done, I conclude by concurring with what Sen. Obure the Chairperson said; that nearly all the projects that Sen. Obure and others commissioned when they were in Government at that time stalled for a year in the whole country. I was his Permanent Secretary then. I hope that this year, money will be availed so that a number of stalled roads can be done, including those ones from our region.
Let me then allow Sen. Kembi-Gitura and then, finally, the Chairman, but let me just add that I thought really Sen. Kembi-Gitura did not tell Sen. Wetangula that the roads are not being done. In fact he was confirming your point and saying that it is not only there, but all over the place. I think that is why in the wisdom of this House, we decided to get a comprehensive report from the Ministry. I think some of these issues will be dealt with at that time when the full comprehensive report will be tabled. We will allow everybody to have an opportunity to make the necessary interventions. ` Proceed, Sen. Kembi-Gitura.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for substantially dealing with the situation, though I wanted to deal with it. I want to take issue with my colleague Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, and to some small extent, my colleague the Senate Minority Leader for trivializing an otherwise very serious issue. It is not right to be reading out roads that have stalled in their region alone, because we could also read out roads that have stalled in our region. That is why when Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale says that they are talking about trunk roads and while I am talking about rural access roads, it is insulting. That is why I am grateful that you have made the ruling that the Chairperson of that Committee gives us a comprehensive report in which each one of us can then interrogate and look at and identify, as a House and a nation, which roads have been made and which ones have not been made.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, first of all, I want to concur with the direction you have given and confirm that, indeed, we will communicate with the CS about the need for him to come to the House and meet with the Senators so that they can seek clarification on all the various issues pertaining to roads. Lastly, I also want to confirm because of the reorganization that we carried out, the funds were not immediately available to be able to carry out the various projects that were being undertaken. As a result, some of them temporarily stalled because the contractors had not been paid their dues. I want to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
I will give you one and a maximum two weeks to make that arrangement with adequate notice to the Senators. That should be the end of Statement Time with the exception that the Senate Majority Leader will make his Statement a while later.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am sorry for walking in late. Before we end the Statement Time, I had sought a statement last week on Wednesday and I wish to receive the answer.
Sen. Kanainza, you should have cared to find out what happened in the House before you arrived so that you can tender an appropriate apology. Failure to do so, I am inclined to---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I strongly apologize for coming late. I was injured in the field and the “Senate girls” made the Senate the Upper House.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg that you allow the statement to be given to the Senator because after she cried here following this matter, she had to fall to my wife to comfort her because my wife is the agemate of her mother. So, please, help us because we do not want to continue having her at our house.
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! The only reason that I am entertaining your point of order is the fact that the Chairperson is eager to give the statement. Secondly, in a way I can corroborate the fact that as part of the activities of the Parliament Week, we had very good games between the Senate and the National Assembly where I participated and we put up a very good show. So, if she has any injuries, it is on our collective responsibility.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am really sorry that I cannot give the statement because I gave her the statement to go and photocopy and she has not brought it back up to now.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Did you hear the statement from the Chairperson of the Committee? Earlier on he was anxious and angry that he wanted to issue the statement and now he says that he cannot issue it.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think Sen. Wetangula should listen to people when they are talking. What I said is that I do not have the statement here with me because it was taken by Sen. Kanainza and she has to give it back to me. So, he should apologize for being inattentive.
It is true because even Sen. Kanainza said that she had taken the copy of the report. So, let us be fair to Chairperson. Proceed Sen. Haji! The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on 23rd July, 2014, Sen. Kanainza requested for a Statement on the recent recruitment by the NPSC. She has asked more than ten questions that if I have to go through them I think I will be wasting the time of the House. Let me go straight to answer for each of the questions that she raised. Following the Government directive that 10,000 persons be recruited into the NPSC to address security concerns facing the country, the Commission, pursuant to Section 13 of the National Police Service Commission Act, 2011, established committees at the national and sub-county level to manage the recruitment process. Further, in accordance to Section 10(3)(a) of the same Act, the Commission developed guidelines to be followed by all parties involved in the recruitment process. I wish to table a copy of the guidelines. The recruitment was carried out on 14th July, 2014, however, the Commission has received various allegations of corruption to which it has responded by asking the members of the public and other stakeholders to raise their concerns formally so that appropriate investigations are instituted. Observers and other independent organizations have also been asked to give reports to the Commission on any irregularities, iniquities and or inequalities they may have noted, for the Commission’s action. The Commission has constituted a broad based inter-agency committee which was intended for transparency and accountability to fast track the audit exercise with a view to investigating all reported malpractices and report back to the Commission. The outcome of this investigation will inform the Commission on the next course of action, which may include cancellation of the results and a repeat of the exercise in centres where there is adequate proof that the exercise was not above board. In addition, those officers found to have been involved in malpractices and corruption will be disciplined or prosecuted in accordance with the law. The intervening period between the recruitment dates that is, 14th July, 2014 and 3rd October, 2014, will afford the Commision the opportunity to audit and vet all the results and/or reports from the 289 recruitment centres and also, review all concerns from the stakeholders and members of the public regarding the recruitment exercise. I wish also to table a list of the number of complaints that the Commission has received per county. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Commission recruited the officers as per the schedule of slots of allocations to the 42 Kenyan tribes, based on 289 sub-counties after a brief by the Inspector General (IG) on the current status or numbers and their distribution in the service. I wish to table a matrix that shows the distribution of the recruits as per their tribe. According to the aforementioned guidelines, all the candidates were required to meet the following minimum requirements:- 1. Be a Kenyan citizen. 2. Hold a Kenyan National Identity Card or passport. 3. Possess a minimum grade of D Plus in the Kenya Certificate of Secondary Education (KCSE). 4. Be aged between 18 and 28 for Kenya Certificate of Primary Education (KCPE) holders and up to 30 years for Diploma and University degree holders. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
I had you talk of tabling the documents.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have them.
Let us take Sen. Kanainza, Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’- Nyong’o, and Sen. Musila.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, my first concern was the irregularities, including favouritism, nepotism and corruption. The Chairperson of the Committee has not responded directly to those concerns. I also raised the issue of flat or straight legs. I needed to hear something about it. The Chairperson has only talked about examination of teeth, but he has not indicated whether brown teeth are also allowed. He has also not been able to point out why the recruitment was not based on academic qualifications. The attachment to his statement shows that there are some complaints that some people were being carried on motorbikes, dropped off near the finishing line and cleared as the first ones.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a very serious matter. Ordinary Kenyans were really abused during this exercise. I am not worried about the details of brown teeth and so on. I am much more worried about the very principle of recruiting people into the police force on a completely false premise that there is fairness in the recruitment. All over the Republic, there have been letters to the Press and talks on
, demonstrating very well that Kenyans were completely fed up by this exercise. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I really want to emphasize what Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o has said. The fact that they are showing that some counties did not complain or there were one or two complaints does not mean that people in those counties were satisfied. We can narrate here cases of corruption and unfairness. There were cases of people who ran and become number one. However, in the evening, they were told that they did not qualify, simply because they were unable to part with money that was being demanded. Therefore, to do justice to Kenyans, the Government should cancel this exercise all together, go back to the drawing board and ensure that fairness and transparency is exercised in the future recruitment exercises.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, what has just happened in the police recruitment is, probably, one of the most scandalous and embarrassing exercises that have ever been undertaken in this country. You may have seen in the newspapers that one recruitment centre in my county, Kimilili, bribes were being demanded at as high as Kshs300,000 for one recruit. People were selling land out of desperation to buy slots to get jobs. These are jobs that are public and supposed to be free and accessed by all eligible Kenyans. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the fairest that can be done, even as they investigate, through the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC) and other State agencies, is to nullify this recruitment and have an independent body. In some recruitment centres bribes were being deposited at the District Commissioner’s office before people go to the recruitment centres. The NPSC should hire even a manpower company, without any vested interest, which will go round and recruit with a criteria set for those who are eligible to join the police service. Otherwise, at this rate, any recruit who pays Kshs300,000 will join the police service knowing that he is going to be corrupt in order to recoup that money. What kind of a police force are we trying to create? Could the Chairperson assure this House The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, looking at the table of response in terms of figures, I want to thank the Chairperson for the transparency. In this answer, Kakamega County, the biggest rural county in Kenya, with a population of two million people, has returned the highest number of complaints after Nairobi. Nairobi has 52 and Kakamega has 44. They are closely followed by Bungoma which is also the third-largest in population, which has 34 complaints. The intention of the recruitment was to attempt to correct the imbalance within the police force as per ethnicity and, therefore, this answer. Could the Chairperson tell us what the current percentages are as per the ethnic communities of Kenya within the police force that you are now correcting? Mr. Speaker, Sir, more importantly, these statistics are a big statement on the Inspector General (IG) of the Police. This is because in this list, they have decided to hoodwink this Senate by not telling us how many Kalenjins have been recruited. The highest is 13.95 per cent from the Kikuyu community, followed by Kambas at 7.9 per cent and Luhyas at 7.6 per cent. That is very well. However, the one of Kalenjins, Kimaiyo has broken it down and given us the Nandi, Kipsigis, Tugen, Keiyo, Marakwet and Sabaot. When you now make the cumulative of these Kalenjin sub-tribes, you will find that the Kalenjins got a whopping 17.02 per cent. What is more, the Kikuyus and Kalenjins who are leading everybody are hogging an entire 30.1 per cent of the recruits of the Republic of Kenya. Could the Chairperson tell us what the Government is going to do, as a disciplinary measure against the IG, for ensuring that a whopping 17 per cent went only to his community, not even caring that Mr. Kavuludi who is the Chairman comes from the Luhya community and did not try to hawk any percentage? This list must be cancelled. You people want to destroy the nation that we call Kenya. If you are building Kenya, you cannot do what you are doing.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, among the requirements for this recruitment was citizens and so on. First, if you go to number five which is physically, mentally and medically fit, of what medical qualifications were the police officers who initially check medical fitness of the candidates? Secondly, height is one of the issues that were being checked. We know genetically some communities in this country have a shorter height than other communities. Is it not a way of discrimination that some communities were left out just because of height when we know that in other countries, including the United States of America (USA) and Britain, height has never been an issue for recruitment in the army and the police force? Thirdly, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Constitution clearly says there has to be inclusiveness in the employment of the physically challenged and other marginalized groups of this country. Being a member of the police force does not necessarily mean you have to be out running to catch criminals; there are other departments like telephone operations, kitchen and so on. Why were the physically challenged people in this country discriminated in this exercise totally? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Members! I see there is a lot of interest, but let me just allow the last one from Sen. Wako, Sen. Obure, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo and then Sen. Sang.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it really saddens me that the law enforcement or the security forces in this country are being interfered with. It appears as if tribalism is coming into it particularly during recruitment whereas the Constitution is very clear when it comes to defence forces. They must reflect the face of Kenya. For example, you cannot take a place like Trans Nzoia where 68 per cent of the community is Luhyas and you recruit 90 per cent from another community. Luhyas are now named as others in Trans Nzoia. It cannot be that way. I think that the only solution, if the reform process that we begun and which is envisaged in our Constitution succeeds to the very end, the only credible thing is for the entire recruitment exercise to be cancelled, be done afresh. We should look into how these anomalies can be addressed. On this list, they say they have ten complaints from Busia County. However, I received more than that over the same issues. Police officers were asking for Kshs30,000 or Kshs50,000 so that people could be recruited in the police force. I said that it might not be true, but when I checked I found out that it was true. So, I said that since I am a man of integrity, I could not pay even a single cent for the recruitment of somebody. Somebody must be recruited on merit and that is what I stood by. Therefore, my plea is that let them not insist on this list. Let them start afresh and continue.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have no doubt in my mind that this police recruitment exercise was a sham and a national shame. I am also very sure that this negatively impacts on the performance of the police service. I agree with those who have proposed that the exercise should be revoked. In fact, it should be revoked to pave way for a fresh and transparent exercise. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to seek clarification from the Chairperson on the role of the provincial commissioners, the district commissioners and so on at the recruitment centres. This is because from the complaints I received, they contributed a lot to the manipulations that went on at the centres. I want also to know how those who were examining them were identified, in the first place, because a lot of the-would-be successful candidates were actually disqualified at that point maliciously. I would like to know how they were recruited.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, first, I have heard of people talking of a tribe called Kalenjin. It is important that we speak facts and get the data right. There is no tribe called Kalenjin. Out of the 42 tribes in Kenya, there is no tribe called Kalenjin. There is no tribe called GEMA. We have Kikuyu, Meru, Pokot, Nandi and so on. Let us speak facts as such. Secondly, we were supposed to recruit people per county and sub-county in the whole Republic. That was done, but many of the issues raised by Senators here are malpractices. In my county, for example, issues were also raised where parents were being told to produce an “envelope” before a child was recruited. Those are the issues that we should be investigating, but not to talk about other issues. Lastly, at the moment, we have security concerns in Kenya. There are some people among the pastoralists who are good in security and love working in the security department--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
I have the Floor.
You have the Floor, but you seem to be attracting many points of order. What is it Sen. Wako?
My point of order is simple. If there is no tribe called Kalenjin and what you have are Nandi and other groups listed here, then there no tribe called Luhya. They should have listed groups like Maragoli, Bukusu, Isukha, Bukhayo, Abamarachi, Abasamia, Abanyore, Abedakho and so on. We have 26 dialects in Luhya land.
Order, Sen. Wako.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. To my knowledge, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo is not the Chair answering to this statement. If you have noticed, he is actually debating over issues that may not even be related. Is he in order?
Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, you seem to have a tendency to debate rather than seek clarifications. Please, conclude.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am very much in order because we have 42 tribes in Kenya, but there is no tribe called Kalenjin. Period!
Order, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo. Please, do not go that way.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, my clarification is similar to what Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo has said. My clarification is whether there exists an ethnic community called Kalenjin. If it exists, why was it not captured in the mathematics or statistics? I am a Nandi. I have no idea if there is an ethnic community called Kalenjin. Sen. Keter is a Kipsigis. Could the Chairperson confirm whether there exists an ethnic community called Kalenjin?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to start with the questions raised by Sen. Kanainza as to whether investigations have been done. When I was reading the statement, I mentioned that the alleged malpractices and corruption have been brought to the attention of the Commission and they have already started investigations by appointing a task force to investigate and report. It went further to say that if this is proven the whole exercise will be repeated. It will only be fair for the House to give this commission which is investigating this matter time to work and come up with findings. She also raised the question of teeth being brown. Whatever it is, if the teeth do not satisfy the examiner, then it is so. We do not talk about brown and white. We are talking about bad teeth. Regarding academic qualifications, I also read a statement about mean Grade of D plus, a diploma and if you have any other certified certificate, you had the right to appear before the recruiting team and be interviewed accordingly. As to the number of complainants raised by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, he talked about Bungoma, Kakamega and Nairobi counties. If you look at the statistics, they are higher because the population in those areas is also higher than in Garissa County. Therefore, the complaints will be more than the less populated areas. It is just common sense. As to the question raised by Sen. (Dr.) Machage about height, this has been with us, it is in the army, it is with KWS, the police, the prisons and so on. These are some of the things we inherited from the colonial system. I am sure if there would be need to review, the matter should be looked into. I do agree with him because if you go to Lamu The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, is it in order for the distinguished Senator for Garissa and the Chairman of the Committee to make reference to the distinguished Senator for Busia as a miser when Sen. Amos Wako’s public selfless service is well known? His generosity is well known. Is he in order? He has to withdraw and apologise. Sen. Wako said that he did not give any money because he is a man of integrity and not because he is a miser.
Hon. Chairman, did you make such reference?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Senator should declare his interest.
What words did you utter?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I said that leaders should not be misers. They should not resist giving out money. I said that the Senator, instead of becoming a miser, should have given out money.
I withdraw and apologise and salute you.
Just a minute, Mr. Chairperson. You made a very good observation about leaders stopping corruption. Sen. Amos Wako was really supporting you. You gave a way forward that they could help the police. However, making such references is not fair. Since you have apologised, Sen. Amos is a very satisfied man now.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I were dealing with Sen. Khalwale, I would not have made that remark. However, he is my friend and that is with a light touch. With regard to questions raised by hon. Sen. Obure, according to the recruitment regulations, religious leaders, administrators and community leaders were supposed to assist in the recruitment. As to what role they have played, that is difficult for me to say. As to the medical examinations, they are referred to health centres and hospitals where we certify their age or ailments. With regard to the question raised by Sen. Khalwale about Kalenjins, I know that the recruitment exercise was addressing counties. We know Busia, Kakamega, Nandi and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, hon. Members. We have to make progress. You are invited to make presentations to the chairman of the Police Oversight Commission. I am sure that the Chairperson, on our behalf, will actively follow these proceedings including getting a copy of the HANSARD today so that he can make the presentations as Members have requested. This is definitely a serious matter. That is why we have allowed more time than usual for statements. Let us make progress.
Who was on the Floor? Where is Sen. Kindiki?
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I support this Bill. This Bill has been with us for a while and there was a general consensus yesterday that this is the direction to go. In any case, the figures that each county is getting are determined by a formula which most Senators think – I agree with them – we will need to relook at. Perhaps this is the time to review after the initial three years. Having said so and noting that we have a heavy afternoon, considering that some Senators are travelling in a short while and that we have to pass this Bill today, I plead with Senators who have not contributed to do so in the context of the Third Reading. I support and request that the Mover replies then we vote.
Order, hon. Members. Standing Order No.98 talks about closure of debate. I will, therefore, put the question that the Mover be called upon to reply.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move.
Order, hon. Senators. I think we have a problem there. You may have to get someone else to bow.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Deputy Speaker, Sen. Kembi-Gitura has not spoken. Probably he could reply.
Thank you very much Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is a debate that has generated a lot of interest. Hon. Senators were in consensus that the right thing was done in terms of the allocations. Obviously, at a better time, the Senate will sit and come up with a new formula of allocation to counties. However, the most important thing is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
The bell will be rung for one minute.
Let the Bell be rung for another one minute.
Order, Senators! I hope everybody is ready to vote. Assisted voters will always be considered after the vote anyway; so, they can mill around the Clerks-at-the-Table for now. Order, Senators! Let us take a vote for another 30 seconds. Prepare to vote on Order No.9. Order, Senators! We have the results for Order No.8 but I would wish to announce the results at the same time with the results of Order No.9. This Second Reading had been exhausted; it was just the Division which was remaining. Again, assisted voters, approach the Clerks-at-the-Table. Can we commence the voting?
Order, Senators! I now have the results of the divisions, starting with the County Allocation of Revenue Bill (Senate Bill No.9 of 2014), which is as follows. There were 22 Senators who voted electronically while five Senators were assisted to vote.
Order, Senators! I now have the results of the Division for the Public Procurement and Disposal (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.31 of 2013), which is as follows. There were 24 Senators who voted electronically while five Senators were assisted to vote.
(Hon. Ethuro): Order, Senators! I wanted to bring to your attention that we are already into the Supplementary Order Paper. So, we have concluded Orders 8 and 9. There is a slight variation in terms of Order No.11, which will now become Order No.10 so that we dispose of this matter of the County Allocation of Revenue Bill at the Committee of the Whole. The second Bill there was the one by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, who has graciously allowed us to postpone it to next week so that we can manage time, because we still need to deal with the other Orders, Orders No.10 and 12, as reflected on the Supplementary Order Paper; which we must all conclude today.
Hon. Senators, I have the following communication to make. By a letter received in the Office of the Speaker of the Senate on Friday, 25th July, 2014, the Speaker of the County Assembly of Machakos informed the Speaker of the Senate of the approval of a Motion by the County Assembly of Machakos for the removal, from office, by impeachment, of the Deputy Governor of Machakos County. In terms of Article 181 of the Constitution, section 33(3) (a) of the County Governments Act, 2012 and Standing Order No. 68(1) (a) of the Senate Standing Orders, the Speaker of the Senate is required: The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is your point of order, Sen. Khaniri?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek your guidance---
Proceed, Sen. Khaniri!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek your guidance and, therefore, I need your full attention. When you introduced this matter, you cited Article 181 of the Constitution and Standing Order No. ---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I need your full attention.
Sen. Khaniri, you are speaking to the House.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I need your guidance and your ruling on the matter that I want to raise and, therefore, I need your full attention. When you introduced this matter, you cited Article 181 of the Constitution and Standing Order No.68. Reading Article 181 of the Constitution, it provides for the procedure for the removal of a county Governor. It does not state the position of a Deputy Governor. Similarly, Standing Order No.68 also gives us the procedure for the removal of a Governor and it is very silent on the issue of the Deputy Governor. So, I just want to seek your guidance if we are really acting within the law because the Standing Order you cited and the Article in the Constitution does not provide for removal of a Deputy Governor. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I thought that the office of the Governor implies the office of the Deputy Governor, because the Deputy Governor is the running mate of the Governor. Without the Governor, there would be no Deputy Governor. So, it is a fact of law stipulating that the impeachment of a Governor will mutatis mutandis imply the impeachment of the Deputy Governor.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. In the same vein that Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o has spoken, I also want to say that whereas Sen. George Khaniri is right to the extent that there is a lacuna, especially with regard to those two provisions that he has cited plus Section 33 of the County Governments Act, towards the end of Section 33 of the County Governments Act which looks at the process of the removal of a Governor by impeachment, it says that if a Governor or Deputy Governor is removed under this section, then the following shall apply--- This means actually that the intention was to apply those provisions to both officers. Therefore, I want to support Prof. Anyang’-Nyong’o, but also provide an additional justification why I think that the provisions for the removal of the Governor by impeachment applies to the removal of the Deputy Governor mutatis mutandis.
By the way, the guidance was being sought from Mr. Speaker.
It is true, Mr. Speaker, Sir, but we have a right to sort of also assist you in doing this interpretation. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have a principle of law called construction, where when interpreting the law, the interpretation should not lead to an absurdity. What Sen. Khaniri is suggesting would lead to an absurdity. It is not only that, but if this Senate is going to be bound by precedent of what we have done before, Sen. Khalwale in his Committee for the removal of the Deputy Governor of Embu County, held and found – and which we voted – that the law applicable for the removal of a Governor applies mutatis mutandis to a Deputy Governor. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. If you look at Article 179 (4) of the Constitution, the Governor and Deputy Governor are the chief executive and deputy chief executive of the county respectively. From your Communication, I am persuaded that the only way that you can proceed is if that charge was against the office and, therefore, it is not possible for the Deputy Governor to be impeached separately as the attempt is being made.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, maybe just in response to Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o and the Senate Majority Leader, we do not want to act in futility. This will be a very strong ground for somebody to take us to court. If you look at the procedure for the removal of the President, there is a separate procedure for the removal of the Deputy President. The Senate Majority Leader is telling me that it is the same, but Article 150 and Standing Order No.67 are very clear on how to remove the Deputy President. So, the same should have applied for the Governor and his deputy.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I cannot do better than to reiterate what Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. has said, because we have set a precedent in this House and it has withstood the test of time. We impeached the Governor of Embu and salvaged the Deputy Governor of Embu, which means that we considered her The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. There is no lacuna in the law in this matter, because law is not necessarily what is written. It is guided by precedents, practice and usage. When we dealt with the Embu matter, there were two impeachment proceedings from Embu County Assembly; separate charges for the Governor and the Deputy Governor. The Khalwale Committee presided on both and returned a verdict of “guilty” on one and “not guilty” on the other. The Khalwale Committee was very clear and never cited any gap in the law on the process of impeaching the Deputy Governor. I agree with the distinguished Senator for Kisumu, the Senator for Tharaka-Nithi and the Senator for Makueni that their interpretation of the law is correct. The House should be guided by our previous conduct on a similar matter and we proceed to the Motion and deal with the matter before us.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Whereas I may not be a lawyer, I know one fact. Just because a wrong has been done does not justify repeating the wrong and calling it right. I believe in my own mind that our two previous Committees made a mistake in the interpretation of the law. This is because the Constitution which was approved by a majority of Kenyans was not adhered to. The Constitution does not prescribe the method of removal of a Deputy Governor. If a Governor or county assembly, therefore, thinks that a Deputy Governor is not performing, then that mistake should be pushed to the Governor who made the mistake of picking that fellow as his running mate. Therefore, regarding the Machakos issue, the Governor should be impeached, so that the Deputy Governor is taken care of, if that is what they want. I think that, that is what the law says.
The last contribution on this is by Sen. Kerrow
Mr. Speaker, Sir, mine is on a different matter.
Order, Members! I think that this is really much ado about nothing. You do not need to make any references to any school of law. All you needed was to be a Member of the Senate of the 11th Parliament. We got two impeachments from Embu County, ably handled by Sen. Khalwale and his team. Not only did we decide that we were going to get two Committees, because they were not the same persons, but two different persons performing certain functions--- In fact, the Constitution has even ring-fenced some of the things that the Deputy Governor cannot do, which only a Governor can do. So, that already tells you that they are different things. By quoting that article of the Constitution, Sen. Khalwale actually went the opposite direction, when I thought that he would actually support the cause; that since we have a chief and deputy, then each one of them is responsible. From all the words that have been used, check Article 259 (1) which says:- “This Constitution shall be interpreted in a manner that— ( a ) promotes its purposes, values and principles; ( b ) advances the rule of law, and the human rights and fundamental freedoms in the Bill of Rights; ( c ) permits the development of the law; and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Sen. Amos Wako, there is no doubt in this country that you are an eminent lawyer. So, with that obvious understanding, you actually add nothing more useful to the rest of the discourse. Maybe if it was another Senator whose credentials are not known, I would allow. What is it, Sen. Wako?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, permit me to agree with your ruling, the Senate Majority Leader, the Senate Minority Leader, Prof. Anyang’-Nyong’o and my son, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. But still, there is a lacuna somewhere which I hope can be cured in future, either by amendment or whatever. The lacuna is that both the court in Kerugoya and Khalwale’s Committee did not address this issue; that it appears as if within this Constitution the position to the extent that Article 182 (4)--- Article 182 talks about a vacancy in the office of the county Governor. Of course, as everybody has said, it does not talk about a vacancy in the office of the county Deputy Governor. But Article 182 (4) reads:- “If a vacancy occurs in the office of county governor and that of deputy county governor--- The provisions for a vacancy for a deputy governor have not been set out in the Constitution. We are talking about a possible vacancy, if these proceedings succeed, of a deputy governor independent of a vacancy in the position of the governor. So the word “or” becomes very important. The only situation where it is contemplated that the deputy The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
I am a bit reluctant to give a rebuttal to Sen. Wako for all the words I had said before he spoke.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Sen. Khaniri, you sought guidance from the Chair and it was given. It is not to be challenged. I think you are the one who has been telling us about these points of order. You do not need to stand to say it. You just sit and I will see if you have already made your intervention. So, hold your horses and I hope your point of order is on a different matter.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did not want to raise this earlier because I did not want to derail the flow of thinking of the Senator for Busia but did you hear him refer to the Senator for Makueni as “my son Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.”? This is contrary to the provisions of Standing Order No.90(6) which is very clear that a Senator shall refer to another Senator by the title “Senator so-and-so”. It is a breach of our own Standing Orders.
I heard him loud and clear. I almost intervened but I guess for the same reasons, I did not. We refer to Members only as Senators in this House, those others are details which we do not entertain here. There are very many social occasions for you to demonstrate that. Proceed, Sen. Wako.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on that issue, I entirely agree with what Sen. Khaniri has stated. I should not have referred to Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. as “my son” but in terms of upbringing in the law, I regard him as my son but he is actually Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. who is being brought up very well on the issues of----
Order, Sen. Wako. It takes you so long to make just a small clear point. Before we go to the Committee of the Whole, I will allow the Senate Majority Leader to give notice of his Motion.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion. THAT, whereas, pursuant to Article 181 of the Constitution and section 33 of the County Governments Act, 2012, on 23rd July, 2014, the County Assembly of Machakos approved a Motion “to remove from office, by impeachment,” the Deputy Governor of Machakos County; And further, whereas by letter dated 24th July 2014 ( Ref:MKSCA/ADM/IMPDG/Vol 1/6 and received in the Office of the Speaker of the Senate on 25th July, 2014, the Speaker of the County Assembly of Machakos informed the Speaker of the Senate of the approval of the Motion by the County Assembly and further forwarded to the Speaker of the Senate documents in evidence of the proceedings of the Assembly; And whereas, pursuant to section 33(3)(b) of the County Governments Act, 2012 and Standing Order 68(1)(b) the Senate, by resolution, may appoint a special committee comprising eleven of its Members to investigate the matter; Now therefore, pursuant to section 33(3)(b) of the County Governments Act, 2012 and Standing Order 68(1)(b), the Senate resolves to establish a Special Committee comprising the following Senators - 1. Sen. Lenny Kivuti; 2. Sen. Mutahi Kagwe; 3. Sen. Sammy Leshore; 4. Sen. Abu Chiaba; 5. Sen. Martha Wangari; 6. Sen. Njoroge Ben; 7. Sen. (Prof.) Peter Anyang’-Nyong’o; 8. Sen. Kennedy Mong’are Okong’o; 9. Sen. (Dr.) Agnes Zani; 10. Sen. Daisy Kanainza; and 11. Sen. Hassan Omar Hassan to investigate the proposed removal from office of the Deputy Governor of Machakos County and to report to the Senate within ten days of its appointment on whether it finds the particulars of the allegations to have been substantiated. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, Senators. We are in the Committee of the Whole and we cannot transact business unless we have the numbers. We do not have the numbers. Ring the division bell. If we still do not get numbers, we shall decide what to do. Ring the Division Bell for eight minutes.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Hon. Senators, there seems to be no quorum. We will, therefore, have to report to the Speaker on the progress and seek leave to sit again.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand on Standing Orders No.35 and 36 to report to you that there was no quorum. Therefore, Standing Order No.8; Committee of the Whole, was not executed. I, therefore, seek leave that we adjourn this business to another day.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. It is so ordered.
The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I seek your guidance. The issue regarding the County Allocation of Revenue Bill is very urgent. As you know, today is 31st July. Counties ought to have had their money. The fact that we are not yet done with this Bill means that we are likely to jeorpadise the operations of counties. I want your guidance and request that the Rules and Business Committee prioritizes this matter. Yesterday, we sat here almost until 6.00 pm hoping that we would conduct this business. Everything that is being debated here today is important. However, in terms of the challenges that counties are facing, I urge the Speaker in the next session of this House to give priority to this matter so that we conclude this business and enable counties to operate as required.
Sen. Billow Kerrow, I hear you. Unfortunately, Order No.11 was to consider two Bills; the County Allocation of Revenue Bill which is important and the County Governments (Amendment) Bill, Senate Bill No.1 of 2014 which is also important. However, seeing that there is no quorum, the Standing Orders do not allow us to continue to sit in Committee unless we have a threshold of 24. We have to vote by delegation on every amendment. Those are the operations of our own Standing Orders. Whereas we did not fail to vote because of anything else other than the fact that there was no quorum, the Rules and Business Committee can do very little with regard to the issue of quorum. It is the role of the Whips to ensure that there is quorum. Your request is that the matter be prioritized. I can assure you that the Rules and Business Committee will be accordingly informed so that they prioritise the matter. However, without anticipating debate, we have the Motion for extension of time, Order No.12. If it passes, we will deal with it next week.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there was a ruling by the Speaker, if I am not wrong; last year, that after 4.00 p.m, chances of having quorum in the House for the purpose of a division were low and therefore, divisions be held at 3.30 pm when there is maximum presence of people in the House. The reason I am saying prioritization is important is because we spent nearly two hours on statements. They are important but this issue ought to have been concluded today and gone on to be assented to so that there is cash flow in counties. We need to target that time when Senators are present, 3.30 p.m. to 4.00 p.m. so that we have a quorum to vote.
I think the HANSARD will bear you out when the Rules and Business Committee meets on Tuesday or whenever it will meet next. That is it for now. The order, as requested by Sen. Billow is that we will extend time so that the Motion on Order No.11 is prioritised so that we pass the Bill in good time. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, pursuant to Standing Order No.28(4), the Senate resolves to alter its calendar (Regular Sessions) for the Second session for the recess to commence on 11th August, 2014 and to end on 23rd September, 2014. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Motion has been necessitated by a number of items in the business of this Senate that require urgent conclusion. Chief among them is the Third Reading of the County Allocation of Revenue Bill, 2014. This Bill needs to be passed and assented to by the President as soon as possible so that our counties can have some money during this financial year. If this has to be done, therefore, this Senate must have some patience and a sense of duty so that we sit for a few days next week so as to conclude discussion on this Bill. The second business item is the matter of the impeachment of the Deputy Governor of Machakos County which has been referred to us. As hon. Senators may know, there are very strict timelines. Once the Senate is seized with a matter of impeachment, it must dispose of it expeditiously within 10 days if it goes the Committee route. However, even if it does not go the Committee route, it must dispose of that matter, which cannot happen today because of quorum and because of the fact that some Senators have already started travelling to Mombasa. Although I am told that it is not very clear whether that meeting in Mombasa is there or not.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
What is your point of order, Sen. Sang?
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thirdly---
Order! Order! There is a point of order from Sen. Sang.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the honorable Senator from Elgeyo- Marakwet has just gained access to the Chamber with some crude weapon. Is he in order? Are we safe in this House?
What Standing Order are you referring to, Sen. Sang? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am basing my point of order on you precedent---
I have not seen any ruling on this.
Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, what is your point of order? Let us hear whether it is on the same issue.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is on the same issue that my colleague, Sen. Sang, has raised. We have never seen a Senator walking and dressed the way Sen. Murkomen is today. This is in the same format where last time you ruled on the way some Senators walked in here and dressed in a manner that was not fitting.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, although I am a Senator, I am also a registered medical practitioner in the Medical Practitioners and Dentists Board. I have maintained my licence to date. Therefore, allow me to tell you that in my capacity as a professional, I witnessed Sen. Murkomen when he got injured. I examined him and found him to be incapable of walking without support---
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Machage!
Proceed, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think this is one of those times when Standing Order No.1 would apply. This gentleman, Sen. Murkomen, got injured in pursuit of duty----
Why are you defending him? He is here and I will ask him. What is your point of order, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is Sen. Sang in order to mislead this House?
Sen. Sang is completely in order.
To mislead the House?
He is completely and fully in order.
But there is no provision that states that a Senator cannot walk in with a walking stick.
Well, the rules are clear. It says that no Senator may bring any firearm or other offensive weapon into the Senate Chamber.
Order, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.! We have a booklet which all of you got called “The Speaker’s Rules” on the conduct of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think I came to the Chambers, not with a weapon, but with a walking stick and for good reasons. While I was on duty, properly directed by the Speaker of this House and working so hard, together with the Speaker, Sen. Omar, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. and other Senators not before this House today, we gallantly fought for this House to win the cup against the Lower House.
In the process of such a fight, sometimes there are casualties and I was one of them. So, I got injured and I am unable to walk. I am momentarily incapacitated and that is why I am walking with the aid of a walking stick.
By the way, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, sorry---
And Sen. (Dr.) Machage prescribed a walking stick for you?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, he did, together with the St. John Ambulance doctors and paramedics who were there. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to confess here that this beautiful walking stick was given to me in the presence of Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo by the great people of West Pokot County when I visited them two weeks ago.
Yes, Sen. Wetangula?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Standing Order No.103 is very clear:- “No Senator shall bring a firearm or any offensive weapon into the Chamber.” Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you can take cognizance of what you have seen in other jurisdictions; fist fights in the Italian Parliament, Korean Parliament and, of late, in the Somali Parliament. We have also witnessed fights in some of our county assemblies, for example, Machakos County Assembly, where we saw chairs flying in all directions. In his own words, the distinguished Senator for Elgeyo-Marakwet has said that the offensive weapon he is using as a walking stick was given to him by the people in West Pokot County. It is not a medical prescription as alleged by the distinguished Senator for Migori. The rules require that he leaves the weapon at the door with the Sergeant-at- Arms. He can limp with the help of the chairs until he gets to where he wants to sit and then, at the end of the day, he can pick it up and go home. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
I do not want to prolong this matter too much. However, Sen. Murkomen, when Sen. (Dr.) Machage prescribed to you a walking stick, did he not give you sick leave?
Are you able to walk into the House without the help of a walking stick? Because if you are able to walk into the Chamber without the walking stick, on a serious note now, then you should leave it out as the rule says.
Sit down, Sen. Murkomen! On the other hand, if it is a prescription because you are not able to walk without it then, of course, reasonableness would expect that you be exempted because you want to sit in the House to contribute. So, I think it may look frivolous, but it is an extremely important situation. I hope you have noticed that even water itself in the Chambers these days is given in plastic bottles and not in glasses like it used to be. It is not served in anything that can be turned into a weapon. So, this is a fundamental issue that has been raised; it is not out of idleness that Sen. Sang raised it. If you are able to walk without a walking stick, it will be better that you did not walk with it into the House. If, however, it is inevitable that you must have it, then, of course, there must be an exemption to any rule.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am cognizant of the fact that some of the things we carry to the House can be dangerous weapons. For example, the huge pen and very big phone that the Senate Minority Leader carries can be converted any time into weapons.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I must hasten to say that I was in my house resting. However, Sen. (Dr.) Machage and the other medics told me that I must not use the leg to step down. I asked them what I should use and they told me that I should try a walking stick for now. If it gets worse, I should go back to hospital so that they can prescribe something else. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was sitting in my house and I was watching the debate about the County Allocation of Revenue Bill. I said that however late I shall be here, Elgeyo-Marakwet cannot go unrepresented in this House when we are discussing a very important Bill.
So, it is only for that reason that I came. Otherwise, I would have taken a bed rest. It is because, inevitably, I had to come with it for now, but I am a very responsible Senator--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you very much. I have heard you. Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, do you want to raise the same issue?
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Since the so-called stick which my fellow Senator is carrying was prescribed by a doctor, then I think it ceases to be a stick, but an orthopedic supporting instrument.
Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, I am sure you heard what I said. I do not want us to repeat because whether you call it a prescription or whatever name you want to give it, I have said that if Sen. Murkomen is using that stick because he was advised by a medical practitioner like you to come with it, then there must be an exception to the rule. On the other hand, if it is just for leisure that he is walking with it, he cannot be allowed to do so in the Chamber. Sen. (Dr.) Machage, I am sure that settles the issue.
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Sen. Murkomen will continue using the stick as long as I have not decided that it is not appropriate. I would also like to inform the Senator for Bungoma that even when we prescribe, usually the drugs and other appliances have been manufactured by somebody else, which could include the people of Murkomen, or sometimes even water in your own house.
Since Sen. Murkomen is seated comfortably, I am instructing the Serjeant-At-Arms to withdraw the walking stick from him for safe custody. When he wants to leave, he can give him back his walking stick.
I am sure he can stand up without a walking stick. It will be kept safely for you and when you want to leave it will be brought back. I must commend you for coming from your house to the Senate to vote. I wish that more Senators could have the same spirit so that we have quorum. Proceed, Senate Majority Leader.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I had actually almost completed moving this Motion. We have a number of Bills that we must conclude. Other than the County Allocation of Revenue Bill, we have the Public Procurement and Disposal (Amendment) Bill. Most importantly, we have the Impeachment Motion regarding the Deputy Governor of Machakos County which is time bound. For this reason, it would be important for the Senators to stay around a little longer through next week. We know that Senators have worked very hard, but we just want to encourage them to work a little harder. Finally, I am happy to say that because this recess had been planned for a long time, we are also, through this Motion, suggesting that the Senate does approve that the recess be moved forward so that we resume a week after 17th September which was the expected date of returning back. Therefore, in short, this Motion seeks to request that the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. In the opening remarks of Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, he said that he is not sure whether the Mombasa Conference is on or not. Now that was planned and organized by this House and with that kind of remark from the Senate Majority Leader, would I be in order to request that he substantiates or elucidates on the issue?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have also received information that the Governors have gone to court to challenge the legislation that created the County Development Board which is basically the institution that is going to assist in the coordination of development in our counties. Considering that, that was one of our key agendas which is the operationalization of the County Development Boards, am I in order to say that we should make a resolution in this House to basically agree that even if the Governors have not called off the meeting, we on our Motion call off that meeting until such time that necessary respect is achieved on the County Development Board?
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Now, you are asking me to do something which is not within my mandate because a meeting has been called and all of you have seen the programme. There is nothing in the agenda and I have not seen anything to do with the Sang Bill in it. Therefore, you cannot ask me to call off a meeting which I did not convene. It is the Senate leadership through the RBC which has organized this meeting. So, I do not think it is in my place or mandate to order that it be called off or not. In any case, what you are telling us right now is hearsay. We do not rely on newspaper reports to make decisions. So, if the Speaker’s office wants to stop this meeting, you will be informed the same way you were informed about the meeting in Mombasa. Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, you can deal with Sen. (Dr.) Macahage’s point of order. Was it not on the same point?
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, just to say that it is true that that information is not official, but it is also true that Governors went to court to challenge a Bill which has been passed into law by this House, which is within their right. However, I also want to agree with you that if that meeting is cancelled, there must be some official way of communicating through the Speaker’s office. I beg to move and request the Senate Minority Leader, Sen. Wetangula to second.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to second. This is literally procedural; the RBC as the Committee that arranges our programme and our calendar agreed that we sit next week and extend the length of our recess by an extra one week, so that we can dispose of the workload that is ahead of us, including the proposed impeachment of the Deputy Governor of Machakos, the Allocation of Revenue Bill and one or two other Bills that are pending for purposes of Committee and voting. This being the case, I know that it may be disruptive to programmes that Senators have set in the first week of their recess, but we ask them that The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand to support this Motion. But before I speak substantively on the Motion, I just want to make a comment or two about the Governor’s issue. The fact that the governors have gone to court, as the Senate Minority Leader has said, it is, indeed, their constitutional right. I guess that one of the reasons they might have gone to court is to challenge the constitutionality of the law. Indeed, if the courts are up to the mark, they should be able to read the Constitution correctly and uphold the point of view of the Senate. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, having said that, regarding going to Mombasa, it is even more reason we should meet the governors, to have a dialogue with them. Maybe that can provide us with an opportunity to sort out certain lacunas on their own perception on what this law means and the fact that we, indeed, would like to have a much more deep engagement with the counties at the level of planning and setting priorities in the implementation of that section of the Constitution which gives us the responsibility to look after the affairs of the counties. We cannot really look after the affairs of the counties if we are not somehow organically connected to the need to make certain regulations and laws to the counties that affect their development. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, having said that, as we go on recess, I would like to request the Senate to think of looking at recess as recess and interpret it as a period during which we do not continue working as if we are still in Session. In my life in Parliament since 1993, recess has been used effectively for Committee meetings. You meet fulltime until the recess is over. So, I have always wondered if there is any conception of recess, holidays or taking leave for lawmakers. In that recess, there must be at least some two weeks which are bracketed specifically with no activities for lawmakers to do other things like visiting their counties without necessarily having to be engaged in meetings or even take a holiday. So, I would like to appeal to the management of the Senate that we work closely with Committee Chairpersons and those who schedule Committees to bracket out some one or two weeks, during which there is absolutely no activity regarding Committee work, lawmaking and so on. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I really agree with the Senate Majority Leader that we need to complete the matter of allocation of revenue because that is critical. It would have been better if we had dispensed with it today, so that the counties can properly proceed. I did not ask the Senate Majority Leader, but as you advised me yesterday, we could not have debated it if it was not published. We are glad that the President signed the Bill yesterday and it is now published. Therefore, it will be prudent for us, as a House, to pass the County Allocation of Revenue Bill and allow our counties to proceed with the development agenda for this country, so that we can realize the fruits of devolution. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I have said over and over again here, both individually and as the Chair of the Committee on Devolved Government, we must distinguish between the role of individuals in promoting devolution and devolution itself, so that we do not reduce devolution to be a one-man agenda and argument that it can only be the Governor, Member of County Assembly (MCA) or a Senator. In fact, Article 174 is one statement that really good scholars of law and political science, like Prof. Anyang’- Nyong’o, would be interested in questioning further. It says that the county government or devolution provides a self-government of the people, in the sense that it brings that part of ownership; that the people own their county and want to run it. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my Committee had planned further county visits during the recess. The recess is necessary so that we can visit those counties. We have critical The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will be brief. I rise to support this Motion and more importantly say that as a Member of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget, it would be a travesty for us to go on any form of recess, leave or otherwise, without passing the County Allocation of Revenue Bill which the Committee has worked tirelessly for the last several months to put it in place. In addition, it would be a serious travesty for the Committee on Mediation in which I sat, for this Bill not to be passed after we managed successfully to have the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I also rise to support that, indeed, we need to extend our sessions before we go on recess so that we deal with critical matters before this House. The County Allocation of Revenue Bill is an obligation of this Senate. We need to ensure that county governments get resources to run. It is also the obligation of governors to start understanding that we have a Senate which they need to work with regardless of whether they like the individuals in the Senate or not. It is important for the country to know that governors running to courts concerning everything will not help counties. Today, we have an issue with the referral hospitals in 11 counties. I have not seen governors coming together to say that they will work with Senators to see how they can resolve matters and work with the national Government to ensure---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Did you notice that Sen. Omar Hassan crossed the Floor to come say hello to me and went back to sit? He did it like a gazelle, jumping from one end to another. Not only did Sen. Omar cross the House without due respect to the rules, but he started playing around with the computer.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, before the Senator of Mombasa decided to do something that was not right---
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): He decided to be mischievous.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was saying that it is important for governors to appreciate that Kenyans, through the Constitution, felt that there was need for the institution of the Governors and that of Senators to collaborate and to work together. As I said, it is unfortunate that they have decided that the courts will be their best friend. However, the Senate should now stand firm and move on. Under 96(1), we are supposed to protect counties. Therefore, what we are doing is not for Governors, as individuals. We are here to protect the people in the counties and to ensure that the electorate gets the services they want. Last year, we had challenges like the erroneous population of some counties. However, the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget has made sure that each county gets a fair share. I hope that counties will appreciate that monies will go to them. Whether in Bungoma, Busia, Kericho or Bomet, this money is meant for those counties. I hope that we will not see counties going to court claiming that other counties used their money. We would appreciate if they would harmonise this. I agree that there was a mistake. They should agree if money was not for a certain county and move on. When we will be going through the County Allocation of Revenue Bill, we must tell the country what has happened. We have to tell counties the decisions we have taken. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first, I want to use the opportunity you have accorded me to profusely apologize for the slight oversight. I think I had gone to empathize with one of our strikers who was doing a fabulous job. In the spur of that moment, he called me so casually and I responded casually. I also came back to this side casually---
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! Order! Could you delete that word from your head? There is no “casual” behaviour in this House.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that is exactly why I am apologizing.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Never should there be casual behaviour in this House.
That is exactly why I am apologizing. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise particularly to support this Motion. I think just this morning when I saw the Speaker at the Nyayo Stadium, my first request to him was that, it appears to me that there is so much Business of the House. I told him that it would be disastrous for us to proceed for this recess because we can only be recalled, particularly for the Motion of impeachment and other Motions that were urgent in terms of dispensing of them as the Senate, including the County Allocation of Revenue Bill. Some of us came with a clear mind on what we wanted to ventilate with respect to the allocation of revenue, particularly on the formula that continues to prejudice some of the counties, particularly the county I represent in the Senate. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I think the reason I support the Motion is because there are some of these processes that are time bound. If they are time bound, then we have no option, but to ensure that we meet the expectations. It will be expensive for this Senate and the Senators to then adjourn at this point and then only to come back for one or two specific areas which I think will be important. That also puts the challenge on the leadership of the House in terms of how they manage the House calendar. I think we can project in our planning both in terms of time and in terms of the Motions that need to be dispensed with. So, I think even as they put things on our table, they must consider the fact that we must respect our calendar and, maybe, in future, they should put in place The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! Order! Are you sure that every Senator who lines up at the Co-operative Bank is withdrawing mileage allowance? Can you withdraw that because it is throwing us into bad repute?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is just an opinion because I spoke to one or two that I met at the Co-operative Bank. However, I want to withdraw that so that it does not generalize. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that said and done, for us to avert the burdens on us, I think it is important that we have the right budgets to do these types of things. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to support the Motion.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Hon. Senators, we have come to the end of today’s business. The House stands adjourned until Tuesday 5th August, 2014, at 2.30 p.m. The House rose at 6.25 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.