Hon. Members, on the face of it, we do not have a quorum. Therefore, I order that the Division Bell be rung for ten minutes.
Okay. I can see we have a quorum. Therefore, let us give an opportunity to hon. Members who are coming in to settle down, so that we can start business. Order, hon. Members! Let hon. Members who are coming in settle down, so that we can start. Under Order No. 4, I can see hon. Bosire wishes to convey a petition.Is he in?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I have a petition to the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology on a matter to do with unfair and discriminative treatment of Bernard Omwenga Momanyi by the Ministry of Education, Science and Technology. I am presenting this petition on his behalf. I, the undersigned
THAT, Bernard Omwenga Momanyi was employed by the Ministry of Education as a Quality and Standards Officer in 1999;
THAT, he was granted a tuition sponsorship for a three year PhD course in educational leadership by the University of Nottingham (UK) in 2007, and The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
therefore applied for sustenance sponsorship and study leave from the Ministry;
THAT, whereas the study leave was granted, the sustenance calculated to Kshs.3,225,600.00 was not granted but the Petitioner, nonetheless, enrolled for the course in January 2007;
NOTING that the course was to take three years, the petitioner was not able to clear the studies on time and applied for extension of study leave through numerous correspondence which was never responded to;
THAT, the Ministry later indicated plans to dismiss the Petitioner on grounds of absence from duty without authority and stopped salary remittance to the Petitioner in September 2011;
THAT, after graduation, the Petitioner reported back to the Ministry for deployment in August 2012, but was not reinstated until November 2013;
THAT, instead of being paid the arrears accrued during the suspension from the payroll, the Petitioner was asked to refund an “overpayment ” for the period 8th January, 2010 to 31st December, 2013 amounting to Kshs. 854,973.75;
THAT, efforts to have the matter addressed have borne no fruit, yet the Petitioner stands to lose his service on account of reasons beyond his control; and
THAT, the matter in respect of which this petition is made is not pending before any court of law or tribunal.
Your humble Petitioner prays that the National Assembly, through the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology intervenes to have the matter addressed by the Ministry of Education, Science and Technology, to afford the Petitioner fair administrative action as provided for by Article 47 of the Constitution.
And your Petitioner will ever pray. Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Very well. That particular petition is committed to the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology. I do not see the Chair or the Vice-Chair. I am sure there are some hon. Members here of that Committee. Yes, I can see hon. Members for Magarini and Belgut constituencies. You can communicate that accordingly to your leadership. I can see hon. Minority Whip. What is it, hon. Mwadeghu? Can you put it on the intervention slot?
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Following the demise of our colleague, Senator Kajwang, it is my humble request that we observe a moment of silence in his honour, given that he was one of the leading personalities in the political arena in this country and in ODM, of which I am the Minority Whip. It is my humble request that this House observes a minute of silence.
Very well. Obviously, I agree with you and I share in the grief with everybody else. But the thinking that we are having The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
is that considering that the late Senator was a very senior Member of this House, having been an hon. Member of this august House for over 20 years in addition to being a senior Member of the Senate it is felt that, that should be done this afternoon when the substantive Speaker is here, so that we accord the late Senator the respect that he deserves; secondly, the Senate does not sit in the morning; it would be better if we did it together in the afternoon. That is noted and will be done in the afternoon by the substantive Speaker.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT aware that the Marriage Act 2014 was assented to by His Excellency the President on 29th April 2014 and commenced on the 20th May 2014; noting that the Act was by and large an amalgamation of the previous Acts, thus amendments relating to regulations were minimal in effect; deeply concerned that there are only 12 offices of the Registrar of Marriages in the whole country, making it difficult for hopefuls to issue notices of marriages; mindful that the upward revision of the marriage certificate acquisition fee is not affordable by many Kenyans, thus inhibiting them from registering marriages as envisaged by the new Act, this House urges the Government to review the procedure and cost of marriage registration and to decentralise the offices of the Registrar of Marriages to a all sub-counties, so as to reduce bureaucracy and enhance accessibility.
Very well. Next Order.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 4 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (2) by deleting the expression “2013” and substituting therefor the expression “2012, or the Technical and Vocational Education and Training Act, 2013” immediately after the word “Act” appearing in paragraph (e). The justification for this is just to be in line with the Acts that have been passed by this Parliament; we have TIVET Act, which takes care of the technical training and also the Universities Act, which was passed in 2012 and not 2013. This is just to ensure that we do not have any typographical errors.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I want to support the amendment that she has moved because this is a typographical error that occurred as a result of--- The Act was passed in 2012 and not 2013; we are amending the right Act.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I want to support that because the Universities Act is very clear on that. It is Universities Act 2012 and 2013.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:-
THAT, Clause 6 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (2) by deleting the word “a” appearing immediately after the word “is” in paragraph (a).
This is a typographical error.
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Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:-
THAT, Clause 19 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (1) by inserting the words “the Technical and Vocational Education and Training Act, 2013” immediately after the words “Universities Act 2012, or”.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, the purpose of this is to ensure that we also take care of technical training and not only university training.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:- THAT the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 20. The Committee on Health felt that this clause should be deleted. We did not want to come up with a council which usurps the powers of universities. We request that it be deleted, so that universities can be given the role to conduct their own quality control. We want to ensure that they will be doing their own monitoring and evaluation. The purpose of removing this whole clause is to ensure that we respect institutions that have been established by Parliament, and that will be in existence before the commencement of this Bill.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I would like to support the amendment. It is quite crucial that we harmonize the relevant institutions that are dealing with this kind of profession. It is a very sensitive matter. I support the amendment.
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Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 21 of the Bill be amended — (a) in sub-clause (2) — (i) by deleting sub-paragraph (ii) appearing in paragraph (a); (ii) by deleting the word “six” appearing in paragraph (b) and substituting therefor the word “twelve”; (b) in sub-clause (4) by inserting the words “or the Technical and Vocational Education and Training Act, 2013” immediately after the expression “2012.” (c) in sub-clause (5) by deleting the words “as it may specify” appearing after the word “examination” and substituting therefor the words “in an institution accredited under the Universities Act 2012 or the Technical and Vocational Education and Training Act 2013”. (d) by deleting sub-clause (7). The Committee felt that the Council may not understand the existence of an institution which is outside the country. We also felt that it was not possible for the council to know the credibility of such institutions. We did not want the council to punish students. That is why we proposed that this be deleted.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I would like to clarify part (ii).
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, there is another deletion and substitution. In sub-clause (2), I am proposing to delete the word “six” appearing in paragraph (b) and substituting therefor the word “twelve” . We would like the learners to be exposed for a longer period. So, instead of six months, it should be twelve months.
Hon. Nyamai, while at that, why can we not move everything in Clause 21, so that we deal with it wholesale?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, let me proceed to (b). This is for the same purpose I had mentioned earlier where we have talked about TIVET; we can talk about both universities and technical colleges. The purpose in part “c” is just to synchronize as we have done before, so that we can ensure that we take care of the students who are in universities and colleges. Also, we want to ensure that we leave institutions that have been established before this Bill to do their work.
For the information of Members, there is a proposed deletion and at the same time there is an insertion. You have not done (d) hon. Nyamai. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, in (d) I propose a deletion of sub-clause (7).
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I support the amendments. Training for 12 months will give sufficient exposure to those who will provide services of physiotherapy. We should also include graduates from technical institutions to work in the physiotherapy field. It will be good for us; we will not only consider graduates from universities.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. My colleague who spoke earlier said what I wanted to say. TIVET graduates are often left out and they feel as though they are not getting chances as good as those of other institutions. Inclusion of this in the Bill is good. The change to 12 months from 6 months of training is also good, because the nature of work is very delicate as it involves human lives. It is important that training is extended to 12 months. The qualifications that the graduates get will be based on real knowledge that they will have obtained.
I now want to ask hon. Murgor to propose his amendment. Hon. Members, you realise that these are two different amendments. That is why even when the one by hon. (Ms.) Nyamai was carried, hon. Murgor still has an opportunity to prosecute his.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 21 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (2) by deleting paragraph (c) and substituting therefor the following new paragraph:- (c) satisfies the Council that the qualifications obtained by the person meet such requirements for a course leading to a qualification in physiotherapy as the Council may prescribe from time to time. This has been inserted by virtue of the fact that it improves the flow and the grammar of the presentation.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, this goes against the initial amendment. Hon. Murgor’s amendment states that “satisfies the Council that the qualifications obtained by the person meet such requirements for a course leading to a qualification in physiotherapy as the Council may prescribe from time to time”. The amendment by hon. (Ms.) Nyamai to Clause 21 says that subject to the provisions of this section, a person shall be eligible for registration under this Act as a The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
physiotherapist if he (c) satisfies the Council while engaged in training as specified in paragraph (b); has acquired sufficient knowledge and experience in the practice of physiotherapy.
While you are still on it hon. (Dr.) Pukose, you realize that hon. (Ms.) Nyamai did not touch on 21(2)(c). That is where I want clarification. Hon. Members, I want us to be keen on this one, because here is a situation where hon. Murgor is proposing an amendment and hon. Pukose, who is the Vice-Chairman, is opposing it. To the best of my knowledge, you are opposing.
Yes, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman.
I have indicated that hon. Murgor on 21(2) (c).
Clause 21(2)(c ) which is in sub-clause (5).
Let us hear other hon. Members.
I will give you an opportunity again after you consult hon. (Dr) Pukose. Let us have hon. Harrison Kombe.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I think since we have carried the amendment by the Chairperson, that amendment sums it all. The other amendment by the hon. Member is trying to drag us back. It is trying to distort the actual meaning of sub-clause (5) as amended by the Chairperson. I wish to support the amendment by hon. (Ms.) Nyamai and I oppose---
Hon. Kombe, the one for hon. (Ms.) Nyamai has been carried; you do not need to support it any more.
I oppose the amendment that has been suggested.
Very well. Let me hear the hon. Member for Balambala as the three hon. Members are consulting here.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I just wanted to say that knowing that both hon. Murgor and hon. (Dr.) Pukose are experts in this field, can they be kind enough to explain to us the details in context?
While you are at it, all these ladies and gentlemen are experts in this one. You realize that hon. Murgor is also a Member of that Committee, and he is also a medical doctor just as much as hon. (Dr.) Pukose and the Chairperson of the Committee are. I agree with you. We need to get some good clarification on this one before hon. Members can take a vote on it. I will give hon. Members some time to discuss it. Of course, you see the three of them are consulting here. Hon. Members, feel free to contribute to it as we--- Probably, at this point in time we can hear something from hon. Murgor. What your colleagues in the Committee are saying is that you are basically negating their amendment. What do you have to say to it?
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. Basically, I think I am not negating anything in the amendment we have passed; the point is, if you look at The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
the initial one, there is no flow in the way it is put. Mine is actually bringing in improvement, so that it flows and there is a little of grammar.
Now, I will come back to the Committee. I want to hear if the owner of the Bill, Hon. Sang, has something to say to it. Can we have hon. Sang first, or we go to hon. (Dr.) Pukose?
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. As we worked on this Bill, we did not want to have a situation where we have a Council that will be prescribing to universities. Already the universities have their own quality assurance systems, monitoring and evaluation; we feel that the amendment, as much as we appreciate it, is also advice from elsewhere. The Council may start prescribing to the universities. We feel that the amendment is giving more power to the Council and usurping the powers of the universities. The universities are our own creation; so, they should be supported and their powers are not to be usurped.
Okay; let us hear hon. Sang. By the way, I am thinking that in future Members of Committee--- I realize hon. (Ms.) Nyamai, you were doing it on behalf of the Committee, and hon. Murgor is your Member, I do not know why you did not canvass this back at the Committee. When you are here you should be able to lead hon. Members properly. I believe hon. Members are going to make their decisions. Let us hear from hon. Sang.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. It is unfortunate that this is coming up on the Floor of the House whereas we could have concluded it at the Committee. This is an advice from the Attorney-General’s Office, indicating that at least we should have this as part of the Bill.
Are you also opposing it or you are supporting it?
I am supporting it
You are supporting hon. Murgor’s amendment?
I am supporting hon. Murgor’s amendment
Hon. Members, you can see that brings quite some confusion because here are hon. Members, four of them, of the same Committee – the four who have just spoken - and they are pulling in different directions. I am a little hesitant to put it to the Floor for a vote at this point in time. I really want to make a request that we have some better consultation, so that we can get something, which is proper. Hon. Murgor, I believe you should come from that direction, meet your colleagues here as I give hon. Kisoi an opportunity to say something on it. It is important. If it was hon. Members from other Committees, or hon. Members who are not Members of that Committee having divergent views, it would be something that we would put to a vote quickly and hon. Members would make a decision. We might end up doing it in a hurry and get into something that we have not thought of.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I want to support the Chairperson of the Committee, because we are in a country where we recognize supremacy of the Universities Act, under which universities accredit certain courses. We should not get all the powers of the universities out then vest them in a Council; the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
universities have their own mechanisms for quality assurance, standards and evaluation that are followed before conferment of authority to individuals who graduate. Most importantly, you note that we have a similar problem with engineers, where certain students have graduated and the Engineers Board of Kenya (EBK) has completely refused to acknowledge their degrees. There are certain negotiations going on between the EBK and universities. As much as we acknowledge that the Council plays quite a pivotal role in ensuring that standards that the universities--- We should not offload the academic part in assessing professionalism from the universities to the Council. What we should really do is ensure that what the universities are doing before the commencement of courses is done and accredited by the Physiotherapy Council. So, I want to support the Chairperson. Let us not overlook the universities.
Let us leave the Chairperson here. Let us have a situation where you are supporting or opposing this particular amendment, which is proposed by hon. Murgor, so that we do not get entangled in the---
I am opposing
So, you are opposing?
Yes, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman.
Let us have Hon. Kisang, Member for Marakwet West, before I come to Member for Balambala and we see whether they have made any progress.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I think what the Committee Members are doing is good; already, Clause 20 was deleted as proposed by the Chairperson. If we bring in the amendment by hon. Murgor--- Already the Council is not there because it was deleted through Clause 20. So, I oppose and believe the Committee Members should agree. If they are in consensus then it will mean we might have to go back to Clause 20.
Hon. Kisang, you are opposing?
At this point, let us have some consensus. Hon. Murgor, have you reached any consensus? You can speak from anywhere, hon. Murgor. I will accept any consensus however far you are from the microphone. Yes, it is you, hon. Murgor, whom we expect to get something. This is your amendment. You can use the Dispatch Box. Proceed.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. After consultation with members of my Departmental Committee on Health, I withdraw the amendment.
Very well. That serves us right. The amendment is withdrawn.
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The Chair of the Departmental Committee on Health.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 22 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (2) by deleting the word “six” appearing in paragraph (d) and substituting therefor the word twelve”. This is for the same reason that we have mentioned before; the period is increased from six months to one year. Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I stand to support the proposal that we amend the period from six to twelve months.
Very well. Hon. Sang, do you have anything on this?
No objection. We are in agreement.
I see there is an amendment by hon. Murgor.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 29 of the Bill be amended- (a) in sub-clause (1)- (i) by deleting the word “nominated” appearing in paragraph (c) and substituting therefor the word “appointed” (ii) by inserting the word “and” immediately after the word “representative” appearing in paragraph (d). (b) by inserting the following new sub-clauses immediately after sub-clause (2)- The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
“(3) A member of the Disciplinary Committee shall hold office for three years and shall be eligible for re-appointment for one further term of office.” “(4) The Council shall provide the Disciplinary Committee with such facilities and resources as are necessary to enable it to competently discharge its functions.” “(5) The Council shall pay to its members such remuneration, fees or allowances for expenses as it may determine in consultation with the Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SRC).” The reason for the first amendment is that the Cabinet Secretary cannot really nominate but can appoint. The second one is basically a technical matter because “and” must be inserted there. The third amendment was just forgotten. The provision ought to be there.
I want you to be clear. Are you bringing in new sub-clauses?
Yes, these are new sub-clauses.
Members need to be aware because they are referring to the Order Paper but they do not see those amendments.
The fourth amendment has a provision that was initially lacking. In the fifth amendment, I have added the words “in consultation with the Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SRC)” after the word “determine,” which are not on the Order Paper.
I am moving it in an amended form. Thank you.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. It was an oversight. What we are now seeing here fixes the duration when the Committee members are supposed to serve, and provides for facilitation in terms of resources. This will result in an improved Bill.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, for giving me an opportunity to speak to this. I want to commend the Member for bringing this amendment because we are moving in a direction where we want to resolve issues out of court, so that we do not congest our courts with matters that can be dealt with administratively. This is a good amendment and it will go a long way in having issues that may arise in the course of implementation of this Act resolved amicably. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, we support this amendment.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:- THAT, clause 33 of the Bill be amended — (a) in sub-clause (2) by deleting the word “summarily” appearing immediately after the word “recoverable”.
Well, I really think that hon. Members do not need to speak to this because they understand. What, therefore, would be the importance of inserting “recoverable” where “summarily” is?
Okay, proceed to the next amendment after you consult.
Yes, after the word “recoverable” we felt that if it passes it will give the Council too much power. We feel that it needs to be a little lenient to members.
But I am looking at it here and I realize “recoverable” is already there.
Yes; we are deleting the word “summarily” appearing immediately after the word “recoverable”. We are not replacing “recoverable”.
So, you are only removing “summarily”?
We are only removing “summarily”.
Okay, move the next one, sub-clause (5).
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:- The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
THAT, the Bill be amended - (b) in sub-clause (5) — (i) by deleting the words ‘badges, licenses’ appearing immediately after the words “his” and substituting therefor the words “practicing license”.
The reason for doing this is that we felt that having badges will be something different from what is ordinarily done in other councils. We felt that we should have practising licences.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I want to support both amendments that have been proposed. One, “summarily” removes any other process and it does not really add any value. So, I support. For the next amendment, other councils do not normally have badges. People have certificates and that is adequate; so, I support both.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I have understood sub-clause (2) and, therefore, I do not need to speak on it. On sub-clause (5), I fully support it because badges belong to the world of casual publicity; to recognise the profession, we need a practising licence. Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I am in full support. Thank you.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I support the amendment. “Summarily” in the world of today shuts off all fair hearing, and you know we have an opportunity for a person to be fairly heard. When it comes to sub-clause (5) on badges and licenses, I just wanted the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Health to clarify. The practising licence can be hung on the wall; the practitioner attending to that particular patient might do something that, that particular patient might want to complain about. Whom does he say attended to him? Can we get some clarification? Maybe we are running away from badges but whilst it might act--- I agree that inclusion of practising licences is okay; the word “license” was also there earlier. I do not see why we are running away from the word “badges”. I think the professional attending to a particular person must be recognized, so that if a complaint is raised, that particular patient might be able to say they were attended to by one Abdikadir Aden. Thank you.
I believe that Hon. (Dr.) Pukose, who is the Vice Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Health, will be able to, as he contributes, clarify that particular bit.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I stand to support this amendment. Normally, when members are practising, they can have badges; but if the board has to receive all the badges, where are they going to keep them? Again, when they make badges, they make them from their own money. A badge is for an individual while the practising licence is given by the board; it is a support document that recognises an individual as a person who has those qualifications. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
As for “summarily” and “recoverable” it is abrupt. It does not give a person time to organize and surrender to the board whatever the board needs.
Okay, I think we have flogged that one enough; hon. Members can make their decision
( Question, that the words to be left out be
I see Hon. (Ms.) Nyamai has a proposed amendment
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:- THAT, clause 36 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (5) by deleting the words ‘without reasonable excuse’ appearing immediately after the word “who”. We felt as a Committee that it is a language issue, and that we do not have any thing like “a reasonable excuse”. That is the purpose for the amendment.
How do you measure “reasonable”?
It is not possible to measure “reasonable” and we cannot have a reasonable excuse. It is either someone has an excuse or does not have one.
Hon. Members, you notice that on that particular one, the Chair is proposing to delete a certain section of clause 5, not the entire clause.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. What we have deleted is “without reasonable excuse”. So any person who is in possession of a certificate of registration not issued to him, or fails to surrender such certificate, commits an offence and, therefore, shall, on conviction, be liable to a fine. Here we do not want ambiguity. If you are found with a certificate that has not been issued to you, then there is no excuse. How do you measure “excuse”? You cannot say that it is a reasonable excuse for you to have a certificate that was not issued to you.
Hon (Ms.) Mbalu, you want to speak to this one? The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Very well, I really do not think we need to take a lot of time. Hon. (Prof) Nyikal, you will speak in the next one.
Hon (Dr.) Pukose, you have such a deep voice and I am not able to get the real--- You better make your voice a little softer.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 38 of the Bill be amended— (a) in sub-clause (4) by deleting the words “more than one million” and substituting therefor the word “exceeding five hundred thousand”. (b) in sub-clause (5) by deleting the words “utters a false certificate, commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be liable to a fine more than two” and substituting therefor the word “presents a false certificate, commits an offence and shall, on conviction, be liable to a fine not exceeding five”. The purpose of this is to ensure that the Council is not too punitive to its members and also in the general practice in law. It is better to give a ceiling.
Well, it is really up to Members, but the justification is that you do not want it to be too punitive. But in the second (5), you are increasing at the same time. I was just wondering aloud, but it is okay.
I will give an opportunity to the Member for Turkana Central. I see you are totally surprised that you have the microphone. Did you want to speak to this particular one or you were waiting for another one?
This particular one, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
This particular one? Proceed.
Yes, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I support the amendment. We need to lower the last one because those people do not get a lot of money in terms of salaries. In case this happens, many of them will go to jail. I wish we could reduce it up to Kshs200,000 or Kshs300,000.
Very well. Can we have the Member for Seme.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I stand to support this amendment. As a Committee, we considered the option of Kshs1 million, but we felt that, that would really be punitive. This is a new body that is coming into place. The members are getting regulations for the first time and it would be scary if we put such high punitive charges. So, that is the reason.
Very well. The Member for Balambala.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I want to support the amendment. It is my hope that this is not going to be an excuse to allow unprofessional people to have room and leeway to manipulate the practice. The Kshs1 million might be too punitive knowing that this Bill establishes a new board. Just start it from there and if need arises, we can amend it as we go forward.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 39 of the Bill be amended by inserting the word “exceeding” immediately after the words “term not”. It is for the same purpose that we discussed earlier. We would like to synchronize where we say “not exceeding”.
This is a fairly straight- forward one.
So that we do not open debate for Members, there was an omission. So, you are just including this to tidy up things. It is just “not exceeding”.
We have two amendments here. We will start with hon. Murgor. Why did the Committee decide to proceed, anyway?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:- THAT
We have the next one by the Chair of the Committee. I really want to encourage as much as possible, Members from the same Committee to have one line of proposals or amendments. It will make it easier and faster.
Hon Temporary Deputy Chairman, I am just going to make some amendments which will supplement the ones that have been given by hon. Murgor. There are some amendments which came after the Report had been done. We identified one Member of our Committee to bring them. So, we are not agreeing.
That, therefore, justifies the reason.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:- THAT, the Schedule to the Bill be amended— (a
Hon. Member for Balambala, do you want to speak to this one?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I support this amendment. The (a) is just basically a matter of English. In the subsequent one, democracy and the ability for the Council to elect its leadership is very important in the spirit of our new constitutional dispensation. This will give room, so that there is no imposing of a chair which the Council might have problems with. I support it.
Let us have the Mover, that is hon. (Ms.) Nyamai.
I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 2 of the Bill be amended in the definition of “approved institution”:- (a) by deleting the words “a university” and substituting therefore the words “institutions established under the Universities Act and the Technical and Vocational Education and Training Act, 2013.” (b) by inserting the expressions “No. 42 of 2012” and “No. 29 of 2012” in the marginal notes appropriately. Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, the purpose of having this is to ensure that we give proper definition to the word “university” and we also localise it to Kenya. The purpose of amending Sub-clause (b) is that there are Acts that have been mentioned and we would like this also to be put within the marginal notes on the side for proper understanding. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman.
Hon. Members, thank you very much. We are through with this Bill. Thank you for the good participation particularly from the Committee and hon. Sang himself. We have moved pretty fast. Therefore, I will ask the Mover to move reporting.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move that the Committee doth report to the House its consideration of the Physiotherapists Bill and its approval thereof with amendments.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Order, hon. Members! Order, hon. Members! Let us have the Temporary Deputy Chairperson to report.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that a Committee of the whole House has considered the Physiotherapists Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 40 of 2013) and approved the same with amendments.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Let us have the Mover of the Bill. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Thank you, Temporary Deputy Speaker. I beg to move that the House doth agree with the Committee in the said Report. I also request hon. Murgor to second.
I do second. Thank you.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Let us have the Mover of the Bill to move the Third Reading.
Thank you, Temporary Deputy Speaker. I beg to move that the Physiotherapists Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 40 of 2013) be now read a Third Time. I also request hon. Murgor to second. Thank you, Temporary Deputy Speaker.
I do second, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Members, I am going to allow a few comments in the Third Reading. The requests are coming in. I will start with the Member of Parliament for Balambala, hon. Aden.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I wish to take this opportunity to congratulate my colleague, hon. Sang, for bringing this Bill. Indeed, it is a Bill that revolutionalises the practice of physiotherapy. For a very long time, while all other practices have their own boards that regulate them, this particular profession did not have one. Therefore, it has brought a lot of the much needed professional control and management around the physiotherapists practice in medicine. I must say that this is one practice within the other practices of medicine that was not very much talked about. Those who train in it feel junior to other practitioners in medicine. However, I must say that what has happened today - putting regulations and legislations around this particular practice - brings a very important phenomenon. Of course, the discipline as well is now guided by the regulations; both the practitioners and the users. In this case, the public will be protected under the law so that any violations are well catered for within the law and measures against each and every one of those offences have been laid out. Indeed, I know hon. Sang who is my close friend in the Budget and Appropriations Committee has actually struggled a lot to bring this Bill to where it is today. I am sure he must be a very proud man as we all are. When he brought it to the Budget and Appropriations Committee, there were serious issues and challenges with regard to the need for resources to enable that particular council to be established. We supported him and I am glad that he has pulled through to this level. Therefore, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity and I support this particular Bill. Thank you. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Thank you. Hon. Members, we debated the Bill in the Second Reading and now we are in the Third Reading of the National Assembly Bill No. 40 of 2013. Next on my list is Member of Parliament for Seme Constituency, hon. (Prof.) Nyikal.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. First of all, I thank hon. Sang for bringing this Bill and our Committee that worked hard on it. I came in late and as I was coming in, the Chair was wondering whether the Committee was not in agreement. We were fully in agreement on this Bill. This is an extremely important Bill because it regulates physiotherapy, which is an important part of healthcare. Indeed, it is physiotherapy which is the final end of recovery on any illness, whether it is an infection, injury or cancer. Eventually, people will need some physiotherapy when they are recovering and that ensures full and uneventful recovery and being rehabilitated back to functional form.
Eventually, people will need some physiotherapy when they are recovering and that ensures full and uneventful recovery and being rehabilitated back to functional form. For that reason, it does not attract very many practitioners and whatever attracts very many practitioners often will also attract people who are not properly qualified. Quacks will be there. It does even attract many people from other countries that come in. Similarly, it is so popular even in other countries. But many of our trained physiotherapists do move out to other countries and, in fact, in the United States of America for example, there are very many of our trained physiotherapists working out there. It is, therefore, very important that we have regulations to make sure that those who are getting into this practice within the country are fully qualified, fully trained and are conversant with the institutions that train. So, that is extremely important. Similarly, it is also important that when you have nationals moving to practice in other areas, there is need for a proper regulatory mechanism at home so that reference is made to that authority which regulates them at home. Otherwise, they can be misused, abused or actually exploited in other countries. So, it is extremely important to have home regulations and support our professionals who go abroad.
Finally, it is important that as we do this, we are getting into an area where we are getting many aspects of healthcare being regulated. At the same time, we have devolved the health function. So, it is going to be very important when we get the Health Bill that we find a way of harmonizing this in the major Health Bill and also find ways that the regulatory function will be effectively delivered at the county level. With that hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I must support this and really congratulate my colleague for bringing it.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Thank you, very well spoken. Hon. Member for Turkana Central, comments in the Third Reading.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): You disconnected your own microphone, hon. Member. There you go.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. This is one of the professions in medical fraternity that was not recognized and now we will be having a body that will be helping in making sure that this profession is recognized. I grew up in Turkana and there were very few guys who wanted to join this profession. Why? Because The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
they were not recognized as medical professionals or they were not given any recognition even in the hospital. Having this Bill will make sure that this profession is being recognized. Secondly, the Council is going to streamline their operations - including their welfare - because whenever there is a strike or any disagreement, those guys are in the middle. They have nowhere to go. So, having the council now will make sure that the welfare of those professionals is taken care of. Finally, on promotions, I have a testimony. When I was growing up in Lodwar, there was a man called Edapan who was doing this job. He had never been promoted to any rank as a professional until he died. So, having the council will work on the promotions of those professionals. We can see them growing in their profession. I support.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): You support, Member for Vihiga, hon. Chanzu.
Thank you hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I also want to join my colleagues to congratulate hon. Sang for bringing this Bill to this august House. All professions start small and in the process, they end up being useful - all professions. The population has grown and to treat other sicknesses is also very complicated. So, if you can get a simplified way of addressing some of the elements like what the physiotherapists do and get the end result of treatment, then it is very important that we have a body to regulate and control. That is because the more the professions grow, the more you also get people with ill-intentions also pretending that they are joining the profession. So, the best way is to have a code of regulation. I think the role played by physiotherapists is very important. It is in recognition of this that we support this Bill and congratulate the Member for bringing the Bill.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Thank you. Well spoken. Hon. Michael Onyura, Member for Butula Constituency.
Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I am a member of this Committee and, obviously, I fully support the Bill. I participated in the discussions of this Bill. I just want to take this opportunity to thank hon. Sang for taking the trouble up to where we are. I think that this Bill will enable recognition and high profiling of this profession within the medical field. I think it is important that every branch is given the structures and the arrangement that can make it keep growing. Anything that promotes professionalism in any branch, any practice and any service, is something that we should always support. Looking at this Bill, it will provide training, registration and licensing of those who are physiotherapists. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, you will appreciate this move even more when, at one time in your life, you have an occasion to seek the services of a physiotherapist. About eight years ago, I was involved in a traffic accident and, as part of healing and rehabilitation; I realized how important this branch of medical practice is. I do support. I am also aware that there are many other Bills in the pipeline that are coming through this Committee and, as we move forward, maybe, emphasis has to be more and more on preventive measures of medicine rather than curative. That is because it is much more expensive. We shall need to promote that. We are looking forward very eagerly to The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
see the medical policy and the Medical Bill that will be an umbrella Bill for many of those other Bills that may be coming. Otherwise, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I fully support and I look forward to everybody in the House supporting this very important Bill. Thank you.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Member for Limuru.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this Bill and I want to congratulate the Departmental Committee on Health for having looked at the important issues that are relevant to streamlining this profession. As we go forward, it is important that we must remember that we are a sporting nation and our youths in schools encounter injuries. It will be important for them to be addressed by people who are professionally qualified. In the rural areas, it is very difficult to access qualified people to do physiotherapy. In line with what we have discussed, it is my hope that we will streamline this profession so that every Kenyan can access this service from wherever they are. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, it is good that now we will separate the confusion that has been there between massage and physiotherapy. I know there are many people who go for massage thinking that they are going for physiotherapy. Sometimes, there is confusion because there is no clear identification as to who is qualified to do what. So, I am happy that we finally have something that we can rely on and develop this profession further. I support.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): I see you support. Let us have hon. Mwaura.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this Bill. I think it is very timely particularly because most users of physiotherapy happen to be persons with disabilities, especially those who are survivors of accidents and young children who have to be rehabilitated for them to regain some ability to walk. This is a very timely Bill because even the way in which the welfare of physiotherapists has been, it has not been very good. They have not been properly recognised. I am sure this opportunity that presents itself in terms of organising physiotherapy professionally will also see to it that our professionals in this category are able to also acquire new technology. If you look at what they are able to accomplish and what is being trained in the country, I want to say it is not necessarily at per even concerning the equipments they are supposed to use. I think there will be that greater voice because they are not just going as technicians who just do support work for the medics. I think they spend a lot of time with persons with disabilities. They are actually even involved in the ways in which activities of daily living are classified and how people should actually be given opportunity to exercise that in terms of workplace ergonomics. I think this is very timely and I would want to say that it is a very good Bill. I want to congratulate the Mover of the Bill and the Departmental Committee on Health because this profession, for a very long time has also been left out to quacks. I think also---
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Order, hon. Mwaura! We debated in the Second Reading and we have already adopted the Bill. We are in the Third Reading. You can carry on. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
But, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am supporting the Bill honestly. Is this a form of gender discrimination like what I faced yesterday? Honestly?
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): I am giving you direction that we debated this Bill. Hon. Mwaura, you have just come in and I must say that we debated in the Second Reading. We have adopted the Report and we are in the Third Reading. Amendments have been taken in during the Second Reading.
I think this is totally unfair because other Members are contributing very well. Is this discrimination in this House, honestly? Other Members are contributing. I am supporting the Bill---
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Order, Mwaura! Hon. Mwaura, there is no discrimination in this House.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): I am giving you direction that we are in the Third Reading.
Seriously, no, no, no.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Mwaura, you are out of order! I want to rule you out of order. You cannot challenge the Speaker. Hon. Mwaura, you cannot challenge the Speaker. Hon. Mwaura you cannot challenge the position of the Speaker.
Hon. Mwaura, you are being given direction by the Speaker and if you cannot listen, go out of the House. Go out of the Chamber! Order, hon. Mwaura! You are out of the Chamber! You cannot defy the Speaker’s instructions. You have to submit to the Speaker, hon. Mwaura. The Speaker is giving you direction and I have directed that you should be out of this House. The direction from the Speaker is that we are in the Third Reading and so when you are observing, we are not debating in the Second Reading.
You came when the Report had already been done and adopted. Hon. Mwaura, go out of the Chamber because you cannot be given instructions by the Speaker of the House and you are trying to draw us back. You should observe rules of the Third Reading. We are not debating in the Second Reading. Hon. Members, let us have order. Yes, we have Third Reading. You may debate but you should be directed that Second Reading was done and the adoption of the Report was done. So, when you are doing your Third Reading, you need to observe that in as much as the Third Reading is a debate, you should also observe the rules and procedures of this House. Hon. Members, we are not going to allow this. This is not our law courts. If you are sent out by the Speaker or given directions, I think you should observe and submit. You can never argue with the Chair.
I am going to give three more chances; the Chairlady, Vice Chairman of the Committee and maybe the Mover of the Motion. Hon. Sang of Bureti. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. What has happened is very unfortunate. Mine is just to appreciate all of us. We have come a long way. I know physiotherapists must be happy wherever they are now. I want to thank Members of my Committee led by our able Chairlady and Vice Chair. I know they gave a lot of commitment to this particular Bill and I am happy now that the Bill has come to be. I also want to thank Members of the National Assembly, especially those who have contributed. For those who have not contributed, I know you are in support of this and I want to say thank you very much. Physiotherapists have been practising without legislation for a very long time but I know with the passage of this Bill, this profession is actually going to conform with the new Constitution. And with this I know Kenyans will get better services. We are going to produce better physiotherapists and I know all of us are going to get better services from improved physiotherapy. Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Thank you. Hon. Members when we give direction from this Chair, it is a direction to observe. When the Speaker stands, you have your Standing Orders that say that you should always freeze. Since hon. Mwaura has defied me for the second time, I want to read Standing Order No. 107. It is titled: “Grossly Disorderly Conduct” and reading Standing Order No. 107 (2) it says: “The Speaker or the Chairperson of Committees shall order any Member whose conduct is grossly disorderly to withdraw immediately from the precincts of the Assembly- (a) on the first occasion for the remainder of that day’s sitting; (b) on the second occasion or the subsequent occasion during the same session, for a maximum of three sitting days including the day of suspension.” For that matter, I have ordered hon. Mwaura to stay out of the precincts of this House for the next two sittings. Hon. Pukose proceed.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I want to take this opportunity, first, to send my heartfelt condolences for the loss of our Senator, hon. Otieno Kajwang today. We woke up to a very sad day. To the CORD fraternity, they have lost a great man. Secondly, I want to thank hon. Sang for the effort he has put in this Bill. I also want to thank the Committee of Health, which I am a Member of, for the effort we have put to support hon. Sang in this important Bill. I know physiotherapists are celebrating today. They are happy that this day has come for them to have a Bill that will regulate their practice, register and license them and make sure that physiotherapy is an honoured profession. My advice to them is that they should do their best. They must honour this House for having put this effort to come up with a Bill for them. This is the Eleventh Parliament that has done this for them. No other Parliament did this for them. We know the Tenth Parliament tried, but it was not possible. So, they should remember that the Eleventh Parliament has done them a great honour as men and women of this country, for them to have a Bill, so that they can offer great service to our people. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
As they offer services to Kenyans, they must carry themselves with honour and distinction and know that the Board which we will have will regulate, supervise them and make sure that they offer up to the standard services. With those few remarks, thank you for this opportunity.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Members, let us have the Chairperson of the Committee. There is nothing out of order. Hon. Nyamai, Member for Kitui South.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I will be brief. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Mover of this Bill, hon. Sang. I thank him for taking the courage to take this Bill through the Budget and Appropriations Committee. He has been available every time this Bill was being discussed at the Committee. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Members of the Committee on Health for taking the Bill seriously, reading through it and even coming up with amendments that I have presented this morning on their behalf. I would also like to take the opportunity to congratulate physiotherapists. I want to tell them that it is their opportunity to give quality service to Kenyans. They should ensure that even within our institutions of learning, they offer the service and ensure that our children get quality training. As we await for the main Bill, namely, the Health Bill, which we are looking forward to as a Committee, we will also ensure that this Bill is recognised and will be part of the Health Bill.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Thank you, hon. Chair. Members, for obvious reasons, I am not going to put the Question. I direct that the Question be put in the next Sitting when we have the right numbers. So, let us move on to next Order.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Members, I have received communication from the Mover of the Bill, hon. Joseph Lekuton, that he is not ready now. I, therefore, have the Bill stood over. I direct that we defer it to the next sitting or the next available time. So, we may not debate Order No.9 on our Order Paper. Next Order!
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Members, we are debating the Motion as amended. Of course, we had amendments during the last sitting. In the last sitting, we had hon. Francis Nyenze, who has eight minutes to conclude. I give this chance to hon. Nyenze. If he is not in the House, his right is forfeited. So, I will get the next request. Hon. Sumra, Embakasi South, you want to talk on this?
Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Today is a sad day for us as Kenyans. We are mourning a great leader, the late Otieno Kajwang’. We were there at night and we wish to thank all those who had come to the hospital. The body is now at the Lee Funeral Home.
Regarding my colleague’s Motion on the Jogoo Road and its terminus, it is long overdue. We support it because it is also going to ease traffic jams. However, I suggest that the Government should look for ways to put metro rails which are a pillar. They are going to help to ease traffic congestion. All cities have metro rails and lights. The Government should look for a private investor and it does not need to invest its money, this will really help.
While on this, I would like to plead with hon. Kamanda; we are supposed to deal with the expansion of the Outering Road on Friday and I am appealing to all the Members of Nairobi to join on Friday. During this rainy season, the Outering Road is dilapidated. I support this Motion. We are for it.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this chance to contribute to this Motion. These very important issues should be tackled in a holistic manner, so that we do not appear, as the National Assembly, to be tackling specifics, which will not benefit the whole country. I say so because those are just two roads in Nairobi, but the major problem in this City is the way vehicles are being discharged from the City to the highways. This is causing a lot of traffic jams. As long as vehicles are not moving along the Uhuru Highway, the whole City is at a standstill. The Government has indicated that it is going The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
to decongest the City by providing interchanges along the Uhuru Highway. This feeds into the Kenyatta Avenue, Haile Selassie, Bunyala and all other major roads along Uhuru Highway. As long as we are slow in building those interchanges, even if we expanded Landhies and Jogoo roads, there will be nowhere to discharge those vehicles into. The City is seriously congested. If you look at the speed at which implementation is done, it is worrying. The Ministry of Transport and Infrastructure is seriously slow in implementing its policies. Right now, we are six months into the financial year and nothing is happening. I am very sure that in the Budget, we allocated money for decongesting the City by building interchanges. So, as long as we pass this Bill and the Ministry is still very slow in implementing the programmes which are passed in this House, it will be a nightmare. So many years from now, there will be serious traffic jams. Surprisingly, even along the main road from Nairobi to Nakuru, you rarely have a chance to overtake. Traffic from Nakuru to Nairobi is too much.
As we debate this expansion, we should actually look at other major roads. If you happen to live along Landhies and Jogoo roads, just next to Outering Road; if you must reach the City at 9.00 a.m, you must wake up at 5.00 a.m. yet it is a short distance. This is because the country has been moving without planning ahead. We, therefore, thank the Government for the current expansion of the bypasses which have become a good relief for the people who live along Mombasa Road, especially the Northern Bypass which is now working. The Southern Bypass, when it starts working, will actually decongest Mombasa Road. Therefore, those two roads should not even be debated. We should just pass it and it should be implemented so that it relieves the better part of Umoja and the surrounding areas which have been locked through jam for a very long time. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I support this Motion and I am hoping it will not take a long time before it is implemented. I also support the issues of providing proper parking lots, bus terminus and modernization of other surrounding facilities like Wakulima Market. If you happen to pass through Wakulima Market, you will wonder whether you are in a city, because it is very dirty and congested. I also want to take head on the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructure in the way they are carrying out their designs. When they are doing the designs for new roads, I wonder whether they do it in the office or elsewhere. This is because there are many roads which are being constructed in this country and we happen to have a lot of complaints that they are not providing bus terminus. They do not construct proper roads, therefore forcing matatus to stop on the roads. An example is the newly completed Mau Summit-Kisumu Road, where quite a number of shopping centers including Kedowa Market, have no parking for lorries. Lorries park on the highway. There is also a center called Kapdavid where there is no stage yet there were engineers who were designing it. So, as they design the Landhies and Jogoo roads, they should not refer to the designs that were done in 1963 when those two roads were being built. They should do the design considering the current status of that road, current population and facilities which are along the highway. For example, there are many schools and markets which have come up which might not have been there. When The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
engineers close their eyes when they are designing, they leave us wondering whether we are really using our own professionals in the right manner. With those many remarks, I support this Motion. I also urge this House to support it. I also urge the Government to look at the expansion of infrastructure in this country in a holistic manner. As for now, the Government has really come up with a very good plan, especially with their new programmes which are going to expand this country. This is because infrastructure is the backbone of economic development. Therefore, we should support the expansion of infrastructure and more so ensure that most of the roads joining each other are provided with interchanges so that it will actually ease congestion. I beg to support, thank you.
Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. Before I proceed to support this Motion, allow me, on behalf of the people of Kaloleni, and KADU Asili my party, to condole with the family of the late. Senator, Otieno Kajwang’. I wish to point out that we have lost a great leader. I wish to support this Motion and equally thank hon. Gakuya for bringing this Motion. Indeed, it is a noble one. Nairobi is our capital city and we all know that we need to bring it to international standards. One thing that has militated against this City is the question of the congestion and the entire transport and planning system within the City. It is true that there is serious traffic jam within the City. Taking a vehicle from here to the airport at times takes about three hours. Moving around the City, from one point to another takes about an hour. It is my position that once this Motion sails through, three very important things are likely to be taken care of. The first one is the question of time management. Immediately the Motion is passed and implemented, we will see so much time being saved. The other important issue is the question of security. With all that congestion around, it is obvious that there is a high state of insecurity. This has given an opening to petty thieves. We have seen people stealing phones in traffic jams and there are other many cases of insecurity as a result of those congestions. As we debate this Motion, it is equally important that the county governments, where we all belong, borrow seriously from what has been happening in Nairobi. What has been happening in terms of congestion and other issues, this county government must be able to see it quite in advance and plan for the towns. We will have to see most of our towns; Malindi and Kilifi town planned in advance so that some of those cases of congestion and traffic jams can be taken care of. If all those issues are taken into account, and the counties seriously address this issue, then we will have good cities and towns to talk about. With those few remarks, I beg to support the Motion.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Members, I have several requests and the Motion had a balance of 35 minutes. I hope you will be able to speak. Member for Rarieda, hon. Gumbo, the Floor is yours.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this Motion. Before I do that, allow me to join the rest of The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
my colleagues together with the people of Kenya and the people of Rarieda, in sending my own condolences and those of the people of Rarieda, whom I have the privilege to represent; and those of my family, to the family and friends of late Senator Otieno Kajwang’. I am one of the last people to see hon. Senetor Kajwang’ alive when we had our ODM rally in Homa Bay last week. The loss is so tragic for me. It gives me the feeling of having gone to battle with him, and we left him in the field while we survived. May the almighty God rest his soul in eternal peace. The Motion by hon. Gakuya is good. However, this issue needs to be dealt with in a bigger context. This morning I was called to one of the television channels to express my condolences and discuss the passing on of my friend, hon. Kajwang’ having been one of the people who were last with him at a public meeting. Just ten kilometers took me two-and-a-half hours. It is a problem that affects almost everybody who lives in Nairobi. We really need to address this problem in a much bigger way. The economy of this country might soon grind to a halt unless the issues of traffic on our roads and the expansion of our roads are addressed as a matter of urgency.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, it is true that traffic coming from Eastlands leads to a major clogging of traffic in the rest of Nairobi, but this is an opportunity and I would urge hon. Gakuya that from this Motion, he can develop a Bill. One would have hoped, and I am one of those who would have hoped, that one of the key problems that the County Government of Nairobi should have dealt with by now, is the issue of traffic congestion. It is a pity that up to now, with almost two years of a devolved Government, we are not seeing any improvement in the traffic management of Nairobi. We have been told of very grandiose plans, but grandiose plans remain just that. They are theoretical propositions that do not translate into affecting the daily lives of the people of Nairobi. We need to come together, both as the national Government and the County Government of Nairobi, to deal with this problem once and for all. I have seen that this Motion urges the Government to urgently acquire the land from the Railway Pensions Scheme for the expansion and modernisation of Jogoo and Landhies roads and the creation of the Central Business District Parking, a bus terminus, modernisation of the Wakulima Market, expansion of the railway terminus and the building of an overpass. These are very noble prepositions, but of course, the Railways Pensions Scheme belongs to its pensioners. I want to believe that any process of acquisition must duly consider the interests of those pensioners. Having said that, the biggest problem with our traffic situation in Kenya is the very haphazard manner in which we have been handling this problem. I appreciate that some of the interventions that have been made are aimed at looking at both sides of the divide namely, the investors as well as those who are using our roads and our public transport system. I happen to have had the privilege to have been in the last Parliament and the one tragic thing about our City of Nairobi is the fact that you have about 4 million people living in one place without a public transport system. The outstanding feature of any city in the world is the obvious visibility of a mass transport system. Anybody who lived in Nairobi in the early to late 90s when we had the Kenya Bus Service (KBS) and even the Nyayo Bus Service (NBS) transporting our people to and from work, would The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
agree that the transportation of Nairobi residents to and from work was a much more efficient undertaking than it is now. Even as we engage in interventions such as this, both the Central Government and the County Government of Nairobi must seriously consider as a matter of urgency investing in a mass public transport system. It is hardly 20 years ago when traffic in Nairobi was flowing like clockwork. Those were the days of the KBS when you knew that a bus in a particular route would be at a particular stage at a particular time. This is still possible. Even as we do that, we must also seriously consider the limitations that we have put on the importation of vehicles. The Kenyan economy has grown, more so with the rebasing and maybe, as one of the ways of limiting traffic on our roads, it is time we limited the age of vehicles that we import into this country. Apart from helping us to contain and deal with traffic issues, it will also help us in growing the nascent motor vehicle industry in Kenya. It is a fact that the more we import these second hand vehicles into the country, the less we give the opportunity for our people, especially assemblers to expand their businesses. We know that when you import, you use your scarce currency resources as opposed to when you manufacture and attract foreign currency resources. We need something close to a marshal plan to deal with the traffic situation. It is not just in Nairobi alone. It is very interesting to note that these days, even what were previously smaller towns like Nakuru, Kisumu and Eldoret, have traffic snarl-ups. The advent of the devolved governments, much as they have come with their advantages, have also brought certain disadvantages, particularly with regard to the traffic management. A lot more money is now going to the counties. Kenyans are now able to invest at those levels. This is also bringing in problems that we have to deal with. I support, but we must courageously graduate this Motion into a Bill, so that as a House, we pronounce ourselves on this problem. This problem is affecting all of us. It cannot be right that to travel a mere two to three kilometres in Nairobi sometimes take us as much as one to two hours. The economy will grind to a halt and the losses are numerous. We should come up with a plan to deal with this issue and make traffic flow improve. More importantly, we need to have a courageous plan to come up with a mass transport system for Nairobi, where as much as possible, people will see the incentive and the need to leave their private cars at home and use a comfortable mass transport system. That is a more long-term remedy than these measures that are targeting only certain parts of the City as opposed to dealing with the problem in totality. With those remarks, I support.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Thank you, very well spoken. Let us have the Member for Matuga before we call the Mover.
Asante sana, Naibu Spika wa Muda. Kwanza, kwa niaba yangu kama kiongozi wa CORD Wilaya ya Kwale nzima na kwa niaba ya watu wangu, ninaomba kupeleka rambirambi zangu kwa familia na marafiki wa kiongozi wa mapambano ambaye ametuwacha. Nikirudi upande wa Hoja tulionayo, ninataka kumshukuru kisawasawa aliyeleta Hoja hii. Jambo hili litakapofanyika, litaondoa madhara mengi sana. Ni jambo la kusikitisha kwamba kutoka hapa mpaka Embakasi, ambapo mtu anaweza kusafiri kwa gari kwa muda wa dakika kumi na tano kama nilivyofanya jana usiku kama saa tano, The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
watu wanachukua muda mrefu sana. Leo asubuhi, nimelala nikifikiria kwamba hali itakuwa ile ile, lakini nilipopata teksi kuja hapa, imenichukuaa masaa matatu na nusu. Nilipochukua taxi kuja huku, nilichukua masaa matatu na nusu; jambo ambalo limenisikitisha sana. Kwa hivyo, Hoja hii haihitaji mjadala kwa sababu ni Hoja ya maana. Ni jambo ambalo linafaa kushughulikiwa na Serikali haraka sana ili tuhakikishe kwamba barabara hiyo imepanuliwa na kuondoa madhara mengi. Kwenye msongamano, watu wanabakurwa vipochi. Wengine wanavutwa, skati zao zinatolewa kwa sababu mhalifu amejificha mahali penye watu wengi ambao wamesongamana mahali pamoja. Mtu huyo anapenya bila kuonekana. Jambo hili likitekelezwa, madhara haya yote yatakwisha. Pia, jambo hilo lisitekelezwe hapa Nairobi tu kwa namna imezungumziwa na mheshimiwa. Inaonekana kwamba idadi ya watu inaongezeka maradufu kila kukicha. Kwa hivyo, kuna haja ya Serikali kuelekeza juhudi hii kwengineko, kama vile Kwale, ninakotoka; kule Malindi kulikotajwa na mhe. Gunga, Ukunda, Msambweni, Rabai na kwengineko ambako idadi ya watu imeongezeka maradufu. Hali tunayoishuhudia katika barabara ya Jogoo itashuhudiwa katika sehemu nilizozitaja baada ya muda mfupi. Ni maoni yangu kwamba Bunge hili liiunge mkono Hoja hii ili tuweze kupata nafasi ya kusafiri kwa urahisi na kufika tunakoenda kwa haraka. Kwa hayo machache, ninaiunga mkono Hoja hii.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Members, this is a House of rules and procedures. As I said before, we had a balance of 35 minutes for this Motion. Therefore, I call upon the Mover to reply.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I would like to donate three minutes of my time to my friend here.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, before I contribute to this Motion, I would like to send my condolences and those of my constituents to the family of the late Senator Otieno Kajwang’, who has been a good politician. He has been a very humorous politician in this country. His demise is a big blow to the children who always remember the word “ mapambano ” whenever they saw him on television. May God rest his soul in eternal peace! Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, this very important Motion seeks to have Landhies Road and Jogoo Road expanded. New towns are now coming up all over the country. People should not be allocated buildings near roads that connect towns. Landhies Road may be a problem solved once this Motion – which I support – sails through contractors but we have problems all over the country. At the Meru-Makutano Road, the traffic jam is bigger than the one on Landhies Road. Therefore, the officers who are committed to plan towns should see the growth. If you look around Nairobi, you will appreciate that the number of vehicles bearing registration number “KCA” is bigger than the number plates that have been in existence before. This shows the high number of motor vehicles coming into this country. Therefore, road designers should bear in mind the fact that there is a high rate of motor vehicle importation and design roads that will cater for the high influx rate of motor vehicles. Landhies Road and Jogoo Road serve many communities. It serves residents of Donholm, Buruburu and Mwiki. Therefore, its expansion is very important. It is timely. It has come at the right time. I thank hon. Gakuya for bringing the Motion to the House, With those few remarks, I beg to support the Motion. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Mover, you should be winding up. Of course, debate on this Motion is supposed to end at 11.52 a.m.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I also want to pass my condolences to the family and friends of the late Senator Kajwang’. Death has robbed us a very strong politician who has been very vocal and who has given worthy contribution to the development of this nation. With regard to this Motion, I want to thank my colleagues who have contributed to it as well as those who have not gotten opportunity to contribute. The purpose of this Motion is based on the fact that the Nairobi Master Plan was prepared a long time ago. It was prepared when the population of this city was very small. The population of the city has since grown tremendously. We have very many motorists who use the roads. As a House, we cannot sit down and watch as congestion on our roads persist. This House should, therefore, take action by looking for ways and means of how we can de-congest Nairobi. As pointed out by various hon. Members, it is true that Nairobi as a whole sometimes becomes a stagnant city. When you try to leave the city or join it, you find that you are totally stagnant; you cannot move forward or find a way out of it. It is very true that the national Government and the Nairobi County Government should look for modalities of ensuring that the issue of congestion is addressed. It is our responsibility, as Members, to push the Government to ensure that they execute their mandate. As hon. Members said, the congestion that is witnessed on Jogoo Road is a total waste of manpower and time. Road users in areas like “Machakos Airport” get rude shock when they encounter roadside gangs who force-open their vehicles and still from them. The situation is pathetic. As we get a solution to the problem of Jogoo Road and Landhies Road, I urge that we also consider the rest of the city. As you move towards other inlets of the city – even on Thika Road, where we have a superhighway – you realise that when you try to enter the city, you still experience heavy traffic jams. This is purely because our old Master Plan had not set aside road reserve for expansion of our roads. As you approach the big roundabout in Ngara area, you find that the inlet is so narrow. In fact, traffic congestion is very heavy there. I am, therefore, in consensus with hon. Members that this matter should be addressed comprehensively. The issue of traffic congestion outside the city also needs to be addressed. This is the Budget-making House. I believe that most of these particular issues, which have persistently given difficulties to our people, can actually be addressed. Our Budget and Appropriations Committee should consider giving these issues priority in our Budget.
If we find solutions to traffic jams, Nairobi’s current Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of 60 per cent can multiply by that ratio. What we are denying Nairobi road users is the opportunity cost because when they get stuck in traffic jams, their businesses get totally stuck. You find that you have an appointment somewhere along Mombasa road, but you are unable to get there on time because you got stuck in traffic jam. If the appointment is in respect of a deal, by the time you get there you find that it is gone. Therefore, I urge that we fast-track the issue of decongesting our roads in Nairobi, considering the fact that is the capital city of Kenya, and that it is a cosmopolitan city. Everybody in this country enjoys services in the same city. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Ukulima Market is very old. In fact, it is totally inhabitable. There is a great need for considering its modernisation and expansion, so that we can create more room for our jobless people. If we resolve to acquire the 50-acre land parcel, we will be able to solve problems of termini and enable other traders to have an opportunity to do their businesses freely.
With those remarks, I beg to reply.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Members, we do not have the requisite number for me to put the Question to the Motion by hon. James Gakuya. Therefore, I direct that the Question be put during the next sitting.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, aware that the Kenya Nuclear Electricity Board (KNEB) was created and tasked with spearheading the development of nuclear energy in the country; deeply concerned that the construction and maintenance of a nuclear plant is a highly technical, expensive and risky undertaking that potentially exposes a country to the threat of nuclear radiation and the challenge of disposal of radioactive nuclear waste; further aware that due to these inherent risks in nuclear energy production, many of the developed countries like Germany, India, Japan and South Africa amongst others have increasingly embarked on the systematic shut- down of their nuclear plants and instead are promoting the development of clean renewable energy, especially wind and solar energy; this House resolves that the Government stops any further investment in the development of nuclear energy and instead invests in the development of renewable or green energy which is safe and abundant in the country.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, this is a highly technical Motion. If you allow me, I will take a lot of time to explain, so that it can be understood. It is a Motion which is highly scientific but I will try to be as simple as possible in my explanation, so that all the Members of this House can understand its essence.
Nuclear energy is generated from enriched uranium. It is generated by splitting the atoms of uranium through a process known as “fusion”. When that is done, energy is released. That energy is then used to heat water. The heated water produces steam. The steam is, in turn, used to drive turbines, which then produce electricity. In a nutshell, that is how nuclear energy is produced. Uranium is one of the few elements that have high energy content. That is why uranium is used in producing nuclear bombs. As hon. Members are aware, during the Second World War, uranium was used in the form of a nuclear bomb in Japan. So, uranium has extremely high energy levels when split.
Operating a nuclear plant requires a lot of water, which must pass through the reactor in which the uranium is located to split it. Without water, you cannot produce nuclear energy. A nuclear reactor should be placed where there is a lot of fresh water. Therefore, as one plans to install a nuclear reactor, one must know the source of water. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Nuclear energy is also clean energy in that it does not produce carbon dioxide or other green house emissions. Therefore, in terms of the threat to climate change, nuclear energy would be a very good source of energy. The issue is how to mitigate the effects of nuclear energy after you have used it. I will be covering that bit later on.
Currently, we have nuclear installations in the world with a total capacity of 369 gig watts of power. The bulk of this power is produced in the United States of America (USA) and China. Other countries where nuclear energy is produced in large quantities include France, the United Kingdom and Germany. Let me put it very clearly so that hon. Members can understand the issues. I want to show the advantages and the disadvantages of using nuclear energy, so that we can see whether it is prudent for our country to go nuclear. The advantages include a low-carbon technology. This means it does not produce carbon dioxide or other greenhouse gases like nitrous oxide and sulphur dioxide, which pollute our environment and cause climate change. So, on that score, nuclear energy is pretty good. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, the other advantage is that if one wanted to produce a lot of energy quickly and you have resources, then nuclear energy would be the easiest because you will produce so much power within a very short time in one or two plants. You can produce all the power you need for the country, but I will tell you the disadvantage because the investment in nuclear energy is colossal and one nuclear plant which will produce about 1200 megawatts will cost about 6 billion US Dollars which will be equivalent to about Kshs900 billion. One other advantage and I want to make this very clear, is the extent of nuclear energy in medical applications. All of us here, when we go for medical checks, we go through X-rays and CT scan, that is partly nuclear energy being used. When it comes to medical application, nuclear energy has been used extensively and has been tested beyond measure that is generally very safe. So, it is very good in that.
Most of the research organizations; agriculture and all other related areas, nuclear energy is used particularly in plant breeding and in the famous genetically modified organisms. It is through nuclear reactions that you can split atoms and DNAs which actually constitute various components of plants or animals. In that score, it is very good and has been used extensively. Nuclear energy---
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Mover you have other 10 minutes. Just put on intervention. Hon. Members, he has another 10 minutes. A mover for a Motion has 20 minutes.
So, nuclear energy can be used in desalinization of water. Countries that do not have fresh water can use nuclear energy for producing fresh water. Also nuclear energy is extensively used in petrochemical industries for production of various chemicals and fuels. Now, let me go to the disadvantages. The disadvantages of nuclear energy are as follows; it is a heavy capital investment programme. This is a programme that can only be funded by the Government. If you go throughout the whole world, there are no The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
nuclear plants that are funded by private investments. It must be through the government. It is a heavily capital investment programme. There is shortage of skilled manpower worldwide. To get nuclear experts worldwide is a major issue. Most of the people who have gone for nuclear studies, upon finishing, there is nowhere to get a job. So, they always change. Some of our best nuclear scientists who were trained changed to other jobs when they came back. Nuclear energy requires large quantities of water. If the country has a serious shortage of water like we have, it is not easy to put up a nuclear plant. Nuclear energy technology itself is inherently hazardous. It carries a lot of risks. For example, if a nuclear plant for some reason leaks, it causes a major threat to the livelihoods of people. However, the most important problem of nuclear energy is the nuclear waste that comes out after uranium is burned to produce energy. How to deal with that waste is a challenge. As we talk now, there is no technology in the world on how to deal with nuclear waste. The lifespan of nuclear waste ranges between 100 and one million years. So, after you have used your uranium, you have to keep the nuclear waste for almost a million years for it to be safe or to degrade. Most nuclear plants have a lifespan of a maximum of 60 years. That means that after a nuclear plant has been decommissioned after the 60 years, you have to keep the nuclear material for a maximum of one million years. As of now, there is no safe way of keeping it. Even the US, Germany and Sweden which have nuclear energy do not know how to keep it. So, it is a very serious matter.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, accidents in nuclear plants are quite common. You remember the Chernobyl accident and the recent accident in Fukushima, Japan. When all these accidents occur, nuclear radiation comes out of the factory and this is a serious threat to human beings. The radiations are very lethal to the lives of people and cause a lot of death, particularly through cancerous processes. Nuclear reactors are prone to terrorism. If you blow up a nuclear plant, you can finish a whole country because the radiations that come out of it will completely spread throughout the whole country. That is why despite the fact that more than 20 years have elapsed, the Chernobyl area is inhabitable. So, it is a very serious and important issue. So, why should Kenya spend more money investing in nuclear energy? We have enough renewable resources. Kenya has more than 10,000 megawatts of geothermal energy which we have not even exploited beyond 1000 megawatts. So, we can put more resources into this clean energy. This country is also rich in solar energy.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu)
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, we are on the Equator. The sun rises from morning till 6 o’clock. The level of insolation of the sun is, therefore, very high. So, we can produce a lot of solar energy. We also have a lot of wind potential in this country. Areas like Wajir, Marsabit, Nyandarua and Turkana have a lot of wind. We can produce a lot of wind energy instead of going for a more risky option of nuclear energy. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, the issue here is allocation. If we assume we were going to go for nuclear energy, where are we going to allocate? Where will this plant be put? This is very crucial because if you look at our country, most of it is populated. The areas where we have plenty of water are highly populated and so you cannot put a nuclear energy plant. If you were to put a nuclear energy plant in this country, the highly potential areas are the Lake Basin and the Coast area where we have the Tana River, Sabaki River and so on but those areas are heavily populated. So, it is---
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. (Dr.) Ottichilo, you have three minutes
So, you have to make sure that these are areas which are very serious. Therefore, the area of location is very important. What I want to say is that this energy is good but the capital outlay is so high and the risks are very high. We have no reason, as a country, to go to such a high risk energy production capacity when we can do it in a cheaper way and produce energy that is safe and everybody will use it. The technology for wind energy and solar energy has developed so fast that now you can run many appliances including fridges on solar energy. So, the technology is there. It is cheap and therefore, we should not spend more money going to a very high risk technology when we have simple technology. I want to end there and request that my brother, hon. Thomas Mwadeghu, seconds this Motion.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. (Dr.) Ottichilo, thank you for moving the Motion. It was very well moved. Hon members, I wish we had more time but this is a House of rules and procedures. Any Mover of a Motion has 20 minutes. Hon. Whip of the Minority Party
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. In supporting this Motion, I would wish to give notice to amend it as proposed by hon. (Dr.) Ottichilo. I beg to amend the following words---
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Member, you cannot amend; you are seconding. Hon. Members you can only amend your Motion after it becomes the asset of the House.
May I second the Motion.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Yes, second it.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, in seconding the Motion, I want to make a number of observations. Currently, this country has a lot of potential in wind energy, geothermal and solar yet we have seen our Government deliberately making efforts to move into this particular energy; the nuclear energy. We have read; we have visited the United Nations (UN) and Austria and we have realized that Austria itself which houses the International Atomic Agency does not have a nuclear plant. It had intended to have one but it has stopped its development. It is because of the inherent dangers. You recognize that we had the potential of developing our energy resources but Kenya lagged behind in the past 24 years. It is now that we have gone full thrust in the development of geothermal. We would wish to request our Government to move into full development of geothermal as opposed to moving to nuclear energy. It is important that Kenyans appreciate the dangers that are associated with nuclear energy. In nuclear energy, while it is good in radiation for health purposes, for treatment of cancer and other areas, if we could limit our development to that particular The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
area, we would have no problem but when we go into production of power using nuclear energy, we are putting this country into a hazardous situation given that the risks involved are very high. Let us look at Chernobyl and Fukushima cases. What happened was disastrous to that country and it is unfortunate that Kenyans have not been told the full scale of the deaths which occurred during that development. The site where we can allocate this particular nuclear plant is an issue. Right now, there are only two areas that can comfortably accommodate the construction of a nuclear plant; Western and Coast regions. It has to be near the sea or river because the plant has to be built somewhere out there. It takes 10 to 15 years to develop that plant. Moving it by road or rail is a problem. What are we going to do as a country? Once the uranium is developed and used, it becomes oil. What do we do with that oil given the current situation we have of security in the country? Everybody is going for that oil; and once you get that oil, you develop it further. That is why we had the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs. What can we do as a country, if this fuel gets into the hands of the wrong people? If we cannot deal with the Pokots and Turkanas here in the country with guns, what will we do with the international crooks when they get hold of this waste oil? For sure, we will be leading this country into atomic war which, you will agree with me; other countries like the United States of America, France and Russia are safeguarding. Iran and Iraq are being besieged because of the atomic energy. While I agree on the advantages, as of now the disadvantages outweigh them. In that case, we urge our Government to put more emphasis and more energy in the development of other energies. In this case, I am looking at solar and geothermal. I beg to second.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Members, for any member to make an amendment, the Motion has to be an asset of the House by being moved, seconded and proposed. What is out of order, hon. Chanzu? So, far there is nothing that is out of order.
In the morning when you were on your feet, when there was that confrontation with hon. Mwaura---
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Chanzu, we are on the Motion.
No, there is something important I want to bring to your attention, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Going by the Standing Orders, in the morning, there were hon. Members who were walking when you were on your feet. This time when you were proposing the Motion, the Leader of Minority Party who seconded---
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): The Leader of Minority Party.
Yes, the Leader of Minority Party was consulting with hon. Gumbo and then they started walking. My brother hon. Gikaria here also moved from where he was sitting and you were on your feet. I think when you are reading, you are not able to see what is happening. You need to sound this again so that hon. Members are aware of that. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Thank you hon. Chanzu. That is a very good observation. Hon. Members, you have to follow the rules and procedures that you make yourselves.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Members, there is nothing out of order; he was just being observant. Just let us follow our own procedures; our own rules that we make in this House. When the Speaker is upstanding, hon. Members, you either freeze or sit. I must appreciate the ones who are following. As I said giving directions, there is nothing out of order. Now all hon. Members are in order. I have proposed the Motion and I have 14 requests to contribute to the same. Hon. Kiragu, Member for Limuru?
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker---
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): There is a point of order.
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Just as hon. Chanzu has said, I am a very keen observer of the rules of the House and personally I was not walking when you were upstanding. It is also fair that my name is mentioned unfairly by hon. Chanzu. Again, I am wondering how he would be looking ahead, at the same time looking behind and at the same time observing the whole House. All I am saying is that he needs to apologise because I was not walking.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Chanzu, you seem to be more observant than the hon. Member but it is important since you are not the Speaker to make rules of who is not in order or is in order. Of course, he was just trying to mention and to observe the rules that all hon. Members should be observing in this House; the rules that we make ourselves. Hon. Members, let us move to the discussion of the Motion.
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Members, there is a point of order from Hon. S.S. Ahmed.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, before we start the discussion, may I propose perhaps due to the time we have and the numbers of hon. Members who wish to speak, that we are given three minutes in our contribution; between three and five minutes as the Temporary Deputy Speaker might find appropriate. So, I propose that we restrict our discussions to three minutes.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): You propose five or three minutes?
Three minutes, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Members it is you, the House to decide. The work of the Speaker is to moderate debate. The hon. Member is doing the right thing. At the start of the Motion, he is proposing to reduce the speaking time to three minutes. You can negate or take it. Can I put the Question?
You do not even have the requisite numbers. The Member for Limuru was on the feet. Hon. Kiragu, you may proceed and we have ten minutes.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, let me be on record that I rise to oppose this Motion. I feel that with all due respect to the Mover, the hon. Member is ill informed of the technology that is behind the nuclear power production on matters of safety. For this reason, I believe as far as this country is concerned and in this continent, Africa, there are some people somewhere who believe that an African has not come of age to take care of nuclear technology. We saw it in South Africa when the country became independent. There are some who said that they must shut out their nuclear facility. However, we know that there is none among all the developed countries around the world that has developed without use of nuclear technology. You can mention South Korea, South Africa which is a country here in Africa or even the United States of America (USA). Even countries such as Germany and Sweden had to initially go for nuclear energy and they took their economies to the levels that we know. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, we know that energy is important and particularly for us to achieve our Vision 2030. The rate at which we can develop power in this country may not be feasible if we do not explore all the avenues of power generation. We started this country with hydro power and we struggled with it for sometime before we realised that we were not getting anywhere. We then moved to thermal power where we use fuel to generate power. It became expensive, unreliable and it was not giving us what we wanted to have. We are now in geo-thermal and it is a good technology which we are exploring. We also know that the rate of generation also depends on how quickly you can survey for the wealth, drill and collect the steam. It is not an easy thing. We are talking of 5,000 megawatts in the next few years but we are not sure that we can achieve this. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, there is wind energy also. Now everybody is saying we have wind in Turkana, Kinangop and even in my place which is Limuru. However, even the countries like the Netherlands which have wind power also have other sources of power like nuclear. We know that this country has solar as a major source of energy but solar technology is still expensive. What I am saying is that it is wrong for anybody to even propose that Kenya can stop thinking about nuclear technology. We know nuclear technology has two fronts; the military and the other which is civil. Kenya has chosen the civil application which means that we can go for nuclear power generation as well as explore its applications in medical or industrial fields. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for those who do not know this country has been on the path of civil application of nuclear technology for quite some time. We have the centre of nuclear technology here in the University of Nairobi (UON). I personally had the first training of International Atomic Energy in matters of testing using nuclear technology. For anybody to say that we cannot handle a nuclear facility, it is like those who said that we cannot even fly the Dreamliner yet we have seen that we can do it. Anybody The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
telling us that our people and our young people cannot study Physics and that they have no future for Chemistry application, it is a person who has no vision for our country. So, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I rise to say that it is fair for us to explore all opportunities that are there and are being explored by other countries that we are competing with in terms of the world’s economic development. If we are going to develop power that is going to be expensive such that when you manufacture things in this country they cannot compete with those countries that are using nuclear power, then we are disadvantaged. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, what we want to do is to have this country compete with others. I believe that with all the pool of scientists that are here in this country, there is no challenge for us to be told that we cannot site a nuclear plant in Kenya. I have not heard of any data saying that nuclear power requires so much volume of water and for that matter that volume is not available. If we talk about density, we are 40 million in this country, and therefore, this country has got a lot of land that is possible to have such a facility. There is a conspiracy out; people who say that a person from this black continent cannot risk having knowledge of nuclear technology are wrong. We have black people in other countries like America who are into nuclear technology. What is the difference if it is somebody who is from this country? If we stop this venture, it will be bad for this nation. I am pleading with my colleagues that we open the doors for our kids to continue studying nuclear technology, whether it is for power generation or medical. We should not block nuclear technology because our future relies on technologies that have been proven by others that they have returns. I believe that one of the things most people fear is to have a disaster. I heard somebody say that disasters often happen and he only quoted the Chernobyl and Japanese case. How many nuclear power plants do we have in the world? We also know that when aeroplanes crash it is terrible, but they are still very safe. With people who are trained and can man them properly, they are safe. Nuclear technology is safe too. I believe that this is not something we should be discussing because we will be bringing disaster to this nation by telling young people that they have no hope in subjects they study in school. Thank you.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): For the purpose of record, do you support or oppose?
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): You oppose. Hon. Shaaban Isaack; he is next in my list, but he is not in. You cannot replace hon. Isaack. Hon. Gikaria, Member of Parliament for Nakuru Town.
Thank you, hon.Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity. Having listened to hon. Otichillo when he started saying that he needed some more time so that he could expound and explain the issue because it is scientific, I was surprised. I was a very poor student of science. I went for Business, Accounts and others. I was trying to listen to him keenly so that I could understand the logic behind the Motion The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
and the explanation that he has given. Going by what he has explained on the pros and cons of having a nuclear plant, I am of the opinion that I will support his views. Hon. Engineer who has just spoken is saying that we should not think about it, but think of technology that we can use cheaply. I am the Vice Chairperson of the Committee on Implementation and we are finding it difficult to implement some of the Motions that are brought before us. They are not actionable. It is true what he has just said, but as a member of the Committee on Implementation, I expect him to give us facts. If you look at the Motion, it says that this House resolves that the Government stops any further investment in development of nuclear energy. The only thing I did not hear him speak about is whether there are any investments that have been done so far, and how much money has been spent either in the last financial year or this financial year. As we speak on Motions, let us have facts that we can rely on. If the Government has not even budgeted for a penny for nuclear investments, again, what is the purpose of this Motion? As we speak, is the Government trying to put some more funds into geothermal, wind power and solar energy? I say “yes”. I was in a meeting where we had the Chief Executive Officer of the Olkaria Geothermal Plant, Dr. Simiyu. He was advising Kenyans not to go into the business of investing in energy because in a short while, like five years to come, this country will have more than what we require. I think that is what Dr. Ottichilo is saying, I agree with him. We need nuclear energy, which, as he has said, will give us advantages in issues to do with water and the petroleum industry, but the disadvantages are most of the things that we want to look at.
This country has been under threat of terrorists for quite some time. The areas he has mentioned, based on some research which I hope he has done, namely, the Lake Basin and the coastal area, are densely populated. Assuming that terrorists think that it would be a vital place for them to strike, I would rather we preserve Kenyans’ lives and pursue the cheaper way of getting energy for this country in the ways that he has indicated. It is important for us to move in that direction, but this country must also look at the budgetary provisions that we normally make for purposes of investing in energy. Dr. Simiyu said that the best area we need to invest in is geothermal because with geothermal alone we can generate, as he mentioned, 5,000 megawatts of electric energy. We can have enough power for this country and even be able to sell some to our neighbouring countries. Therefore, we just need to look at the investments that the country is going to do vis-a-vis the expected energy output and see what the best option is for us. Do we go for the most expensive and dangerous option or the cheaper ways of getting energy? The latter option is less expensive yet we can still get the output that we require from it.
In this regard, I agree with hon. Ottichilo that the country needs nuclear energy. The only thing we need to do is establishing whether the Government has ever invested in this area. Yes, it has. If he thinks that it is not enough, then we need to look at other options. I am saying this from the implementation aspect of the Motion. Hon. Ottichilo should have looked at the Budget to see how much money has been allocated for solar, geothermal and wind energy. If he thought that it was not enough, he should have suggested ways of increasing the funding, so that we can involve the Budget and The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Appropriations Committee because at the end of it all, Parliament should not be discussing matters in vain. This is what we are trying to advise the Members. Through the Committee, we have already written to the Speaker through the Clerk, requesting them to look into the Motions before they are brought on the Floor of the House. Research ought to have been done on the Motion for purposes of fact-finding. In case the Government has indeed allocated enough money then we do not need to pursue the matter. However, if the Government has not given enough money, then we need to move a Motion or alternatively bring an amendment when we are doing the Supplementary Budget so that we can have enough money for us to be able to carry out the research. I want to thank the Mover of the Motion. It is a good Motion. I know there are amendments, of course, which will be brought in the House for debate but I totally agree that it is important for this country to avoid unnecessary waste. We have been saying that in this country we spend so much money on wasteful expenditure. If hon. Ottichilo confirms that we can go this other way of spending less and getting equivalent of the energy that we require, then I totally support him in his endeavours in terms of renewable or green energy. I am putting up a school through the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF). I visited one of the experts as regards how the school can generate energy from the waste it produces and I was very surprised to learn that through the waste, the school will be able to at least supply half of the total energy required. I think that is the direction that we need to take. We need to look at the issue at the village level to be able to supplement what the Government will be bringing. These are the issues that we need to check. I want to support hon. Ottichilo in his Motion, but of course with a few reservations that I have as a member of the Committee on Implementation. We want Members to have research-oriented Motions so that we can give facts and figures that can help our committee to make informed decisions. Finally, once we pass this Motion, once we go to the Cabinet Secretary in charge of Energy he will just say: “We have allocated enough money.” I think we need to look at our Motions in a way that we can assist this House to come up with effective Motions that can be implemented. With those few remarks, I support hon. Ottichilo for the Motion. As a scientist, I have also learnt a lot from what you have said. Thank you very much.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Thank you, very well spoken. Hon. Members, before the intervention that was done by the hon. Member for Kisumu East who was on the list, we have a proposed amendment by hon. Gumbo. You can put your amendment together for signing as I saw you consulting. It is important to put it together to save time
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I understand that the only person who can decide the order of speech is the Speaker and not those gentlemen up there. So, next time let us see how they can follow the procedure. For Kenya to achieve middle income status, it must increase the power availability. It must ensure stable power and ensure that power is cheap. At this present moment in time, Kenya has the highest cost of power in East and Central Africa and The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
probably one of the top in Africa. Therefore, much of our industrialisation which is one of the pillars of our 2030 Vision is greatly jeopardised. However, this is an issue that we need to look into. The Kenya Nuclear Electricity Board was set up some years ago. They have been diligently working since 2010 to look at ways to get nuclear power. I agree with my colleagues that nuclear energy should not be reduced only to a small club of westerners. Iran, Pakistan and Libya have nuclear power. South Africa had nuclear power, but the moment the White regime left, South Africa was withdrawn from the nuclear power club. It is important that we have some sort of power which is stable, which will help us to move along in our Vision 2030.
At this moment in time, I understand issues of climate change and renewal energy that my dear colleague, hon. Ottichilo has raised despite my colleague across the other side saying that hon. Ottichilo does not have the experience. I want to tell you that hon. Ottichilo has tremendous amount of experience in these things more than the other side. As much as that is the case, it is very clear that the problem we have is power. The problem that Kenya is facing is that no renewable power source has been identified or demonstrated that will have the capacity to provide the basic load of electricity that we need to move ourselves into the middle income status. As much as we are going to talk about solar energy, geo and wind energies, I am afraid the facts are there and they are undisputable. It is not possible for us to raise the sort of power that we need from wind energy or the others. We have been moving along. Somebody asked the costs. Just recently, we were in Korea and we were told by the Ambassador of Korea that they were going to come and sign an agreement with Kenya Government. I am aware that the Government agreement was signed. I do not know whether it has been rectified or not. The original figures were US$ 3.6 billion.
I know that it has now been going up to nearly US$5 billion. When you do this, and that is what South Koreans have done, we will be joining a club with Slovakia in East Europe. Slovakia and Kenya are more or less in the same base. If we join that club, we are not going to get that power at least until 2022. The question that we have to ask is whether we have US$5 billion to invest between now and 2017. My answer to that is that we do not. Let us talk about facts. Unless somebody is going to lend us the US$5 billion, we cannot do that. If they do that, what will we do about the Kenyans who are starving? The US$5 billion for an investment that will start operating in 2022 is a tall order. However, we should not take a negative view of that. I feel that we must take the gist of the Motion that renewable energy is the way forward. We must say that, that is something that we must take advantage of now. However, we must work towards nuclear power. The nuclear power, as I said has a number of problems. I am looking at the internet and I find that certain European countries have already raised concerns that if nuclear power is sighted offshore, it will be within striking distance of Somalia. If it is not offshore, it will come towards Kisumu on Lake Victoria, which in itself, is an environmental disaster. Otherwise, it will have to go towards Lake Turkana. I have a feeling that, as a country, as much as we would desire to have nuclear energy, we are honestly stuck. We feel that it is important for us to follow what is required now. Our people are hungry; we need employment and many other issues. So, I would not want to second this Motion in its entirety. We will be bringing some amendments. I feel that it is a good Motion, but it should not say either or the other. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
With those few remarks, I give a minute to somebody else to contribute and then continue.
(Hon (Ms.) Mbalu): Of course, I keep saying that this is a House of rules and procedures. It is now 1.00 p.m., hon. Members