Very well. Can we start?
Hon. George Oner.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I have a petition from the residents of Homa Bay County. We, the undersigned concerned citizens of Homa Bay County, being citizens of Kenya, draw the attention of the House to the following:- THAT, aware that the Geothermal Development Company (GDC) is a company owned 100 per cent by the Government of Kenya and is mandated to fast-track the development of geothermal resources in the country; Concerned that the recent restructuring of the company’s management leading to the appointment of seven new general managers was undertaken without a strong basis or a clear purpose; Further concerned that the controversial restructuring was possibly meant to micromanage future operations of the company upon the expiry of the current Managing Director’s term; That, there having been inordinate delays in implementing the company’s work plan, including the delivery of 105 megawatts of power by December 2014, is most likely caused by poor and erratic management policies and practices; That, the projected costs indicated in the revised work plan are questionable and are likely not to yield value for money due to the taxpayers’ investment; Noting that intervention efforts at addressing the operational challenges of the company are best handled by appropriate Government agencies, including the office of the Auditor-General, and noting further that the issues in respect of which this petition is made are not pending before any court of law or any constitutional or legal body; Your humble petitioners pray that the National Assembly:- The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
1. investigates the recent restructuring at the GDC; 2. examines the recruitment of the seven new general managers in a bid to determine whether or not it was undertaken in line with the spirit of Article 234 of the Constitution regarding State corporations; 3. inquires and investigates the company’s achievements at, or failure in delivering 105 megawatts of power by December 2014 as compared to other players in the national and regional energy provision market; 4. causes the Auditor-General to carry out a special management audit and a special value for money audit of the company with a view to determining whether or not the public has fully realised the value of its investment in the company; and, 5. causes the company to concentrate on its core mandate. Your petitioners will ever pray on behalf of the six listed members. Hon. Speaker, I do not know whether I should read the names of the petitioners. Hon. Speaker: Go ahead.
They are: Collins Okendi - Karachuonyo Constituency; Duncan Ojode - Homa Bay Town Constituency; Enock Ike - Rangwe Constituency; Jairo Odhiambo - Kabondo Kasipul Constituency; Job Owuor – Suba Constituency and Daniel Opiyo - Kabondo Kasipul Constituency. This petition is primed on the interest that Homa Bay County has vast geothermal resources at Homa Hills and we were hoping that by the year, 2014 work would have begun to extract the geothermal resources in Karachuonyo Constituency. Thank you, hon. Speaker.
Well, any hon. Member who may wish to comment may do so. Members, maybe you do not understand what hon. Oner was prosecuting. Yes, hon. Chris Wamalwa.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. Concerning the petition it is, indeed, true that when it comes to employment, corporate organisations or State owned companies should actually represent the face of Kenya; they include universities. Sometime back there was a directive, particularly to University of Nairobi (UoN) and Moi University, to table proof of upholding regional balance in their employment. It is not just about the geothermal company alone. We have many corporate organisations like Kenya Power and Lighting Company (KPLC), the Kenya Electricity Generating Company (KenGen) and the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) which do not have the face of Kenya. I am sure even hon. Aden Duale, who represents the north eastern region, will be happy to see that the people of north eastern are represented.
On a point of order, hon. Speaker.
Hon. Speaker, even in the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC), we need to know if the face of Kenya was considered in the PSC’s employment of parliamentary staff.
On a point of order, hon. Speaker. I do not want to cut my good friend short, but the petition that was read was about the GDC. The Member is talking about the KRA, KenGen and the Kenya Power Company. If I take you back, the petition was about the GDC, to which I did not contribute because I thought it was more of a county affair. Under Article 96, this matter should have been taken to the Senate, but The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
because the Senator for Homa Bay has passed on, it should have been given to my good friend, hon. Orengo. Hon. Wamalwa raised serious allegations and cast aspersions against the KRA, KenGen and the KPLC. Let us limit ourselves to the contents of that petition on the GDC. If he feels that the same is going on at the KRA, KenGen and KPLC, he is entitled to bring another petition tomorrow and we can continue. He raised serious allegations against other entities which are not in the petition. Is he in order?
Hon. Speaker, I am, indeed, in order. The Petition starts by saying that GDC is 100 per cent owned by Kenyans. I was giving an example to show that this is not just limited to the GDC, but we also have other corporate organizations which are owned by the Government like the KRA, and even this Parliament where such things happen. We need to know the staff in terms of regional balancing. We have issues. So, this is an opportunity to show that we want to have accountability and openness. I can see hon. Pukose looking at me, because his people are marginalised. I have seen him complaining several times. It is, indeed, critical that it is not just an issue limited to the GDC. When you go to Moi University, you find that the top management is just from that particular region. We are not exempting Masinde Muliro University. It is everywhere. We want the face of Kenya to be represented. It is a good petition. We have seen people talking about the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK). When you go to the Kenya Ports Authority, I have not seen somebody from western Kenya there. We want regional balancing. I was just trying to highlight the fact that it is not just the GDC alone, but we have many other institutions, including Parliament.
Well, Members, it looks like you may be landing in trouble trying to point out some speck in your neighbour’s eye while leaving a log in yours. So, it looks like the problem of not being able to throw the first stone.
Hon. Speaker, I would like to make some clarification. Hon. Duale is insinuating that this petition is about Homa Bay County alone. Everything I have read in that petition is national. The people of Kenya have invested money in the GDC. They expect the GDC to produce power. If it is not producing power many years down the line, are the petitioners not entitled to question it? Of all the money that we have infested in GDC, what is it giving us in return? What would be the rationale of an organization with such a small number of employees creating seven general manager positions? Why run an organization like that? The GDC is a public-owned company. The only reason why I mentioned Homa Bay was because we have geothermal resources in Homa Bay and we expected that by now, we would be seeing results of investment in the GDC. According to their work plan, they were supposed to deliver 105 megawatts in December, 2014. The petitioners are in order to make this a national issue and to raise it in the National Assembly. I just wanted to make that clarification.
Hon. Speaker, I want to contribute to this petition by hon. Oner, which is very important. He started by saying that we, as citizens of Kenya. The people of Homa Bay are equally entitled, just like any other citizen in this Republic, to get service from the GDC? Being a stakeholder in this generation of power, once geothermal power is connected to the national grid, it is going to push the economy of this country forward. This is going to lower the cost of power in line with the Jubilee Government plans to lower the cost of power, so that we can attract investments. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Therefore, the petitioners’ concern is very valid. If the cost of power is lowered, it will mean that investors are going to come. They want to be involved in terms of investors coming to their area, so that the people can also get employment like other Kenyans. Our biggest concern, and what we are seeing, even when it comes to other Ministries, is that devolution has taken place, but people at the headquarters, or at the central Government, are raising many positions that are not very relevant to their duties. People still want to retain power at the centre instead of devolving it to the county level. Function No.37 of the national Government in our Constitution talks of the national Government being responsible for capacity building and technical assistance to the counties. Instead of creating more positions, the national Government should send these people as technical assistants, or capacity building input, to the counties so that our counties can deliver. Over the weekend on Saturday, my Committee on Health visited Wajir County. This is one county where we found that devolution is working.
On a point of order, hon. Speaker.
I know the Leader of Majority Party wants to say something, but what we saw there, considering that all of us come from counties, we must give credit where it is due. We saw that they are starting to put up even tarmac roads within the county. They have put up a medical training college.
On a point of order, hon. Speaker Hon. Speaker.
Hon. Speaker, protect me from the Leader of Majority Party, who is making noise.
Well, these are just comments. Now you are debating as if the petition has been reported upon. Yes, Leader of Majority Party.
Hon. Speaker, hon. Pukose is the Vice-Chair of the Health Committee. He is not a member of the Transition Authority, nor a member of the Council of Governors. I want him to withdraw a statement he has made in reference to Wajir County. He has said that he has seen devolution working. If he says that, hon. Keynan and many of us will collapse in this House because we know what is happening. We are from there. Let him limit himself to the mandate he went to execute in Wajir. If he was to look at health centres, let him report on them. When you say devolution is working in Wajir, that is a serious statement and the people of Wajir can sue you. It is only that he is doing it on the Floor of the House.
Hon. Speaker, maybe the Leader of Majority has not been to Wajir lately. More often than not they are here in Eastleigh talking of things that they have not seen. The Governor of Wajir and his Deputy Governor can confirm that my Committee was there and we saw what they have done.
Thank you, hon. Speaker.
Hon. Mohamed Abbas, the Floor is yours.
Hon. Speaker, I would like to support the Vice- Chair of the Departmental Committee on Health. I come from that county, and it is a fact that devolution is working very well in Wajir.
Hon. Members, it is good if we can familiarize ourselves with the Standing Orders. When you put your card for intervention on a point of order, you cannot rise and start saying you are supporting. There is nothing to support. However, the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
petition is referred to the Departmental Committee on Energy, Communication and Information to deal with in the normal way.
Hon. Langat, the Floor is yours.
Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the House today Wednesday, 26thNovember, 2014:- The Report of the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade on Consideration of Sessional Paper No.14, 2014. Thank you, hon. Speaker.
Very well. Table the documents. I thought I approved three Reports from your Committee.
Hon. Members, before I give hon. Ochanda a chance to say something, let me recognize the presence of the Kenya National Defence College course participants from Kenya and other African countries in the Speaker’s Gallery, led by Ambassador Ogego.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I rise on a matter that requires quite bit of listening from the leadership of the parties and coalitions, and quite a bit of it is an intervention and a ruling from you. This is a matter relating to the whole issue of discipline that is required from coalitions and political parties on one hand, and on the other the whole idea of procedures of the House and constitutional requirements that we have in terms of details, particularly in relation to discipline on one hand, and on the other hand exactly how hon. Members are supposed to behave in the House. Hon. Speaker, this is arising from one fact that, quite a number of political or coalition parties do not have clear indicators in terms of what “indiscipline” means. Most of the time, indiscipline would mean not going by what the leadership wants, or by the direction that is from time to time called for. I want to bring in one example of when leadership of a coalition, or political parties, requires that Members do not attend a sitting of a House. I want to look at this in relation to the provisions of the Constitution and those of the procedures of this House. For example, Article 103 requires that, at least, we do not miss eight sittings. If we are not supposed to miss eight sittings as per the Constitution, yet the leadership of a coalition, or the direction of the coalition, requires you to miss a sitting--- I want to ask the Chair to help this House to see exactly what takes precedence when it comes to issues of indiscipline and requirements of the Constitution and procedures of the House. I am The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
referring to Article 103(1)(b) of Constitution that requires Members to sit in the House throughout unless they have permission from you. On the other hand, in Article, 103(1)(e), there is a requirement that, if a behaviour of a Member is such that they are deemed to have resigned from a political party or a coalition--- With these kinds of contradictions, we really need your guidance. If I do not appear in the sitting of the House because that is required by the leadership of my party or coalition, and on the other hand, the Constitution clearly indicates that I must be here, which one takes precedence? I may sit in the House and my political party looks at this as an indication that already I have resigned from my political party and they take action. With these contradictions, your guidance and ruling might be very necessary so that, at least, we know exactly where the precedence is and what exactly we need to follow. Thank you, hon. Speaker.
When you look at Article 103 of the Constitution, which requires attendance; if a Member fails to attend without permission of the Speaker--- That is clear and it is not really a big issue. If a party on the other hand decides that a Members is in breach of the Party’s Constitution, or is propagating the ideals of another party, on whose ticket the Member was elected into the Assembly, then obviously the party will be required, if it so desires-- - First of all, it should apply its own constitution with regard to discipline. What I am saying is contained in the Political Parties Act. The Second Schedule gives parties the procedures and processes to be followed. The first thing is to follow your party’s constitution and apply disciplinary measures that are provided for in the party constitution. If that is done and a Member still feels that they need to petition, or appeal, then they will be at liberty to do so. If a party’s constitution provides for an appeal mechanism, then you can go that route; you can petition the political party’s dispute tribunal, which will listen; in dealing with the complaint of a Member who is disciplined, it will look at the party constitution and see if it has been followed. However, we should remember that the punishment that is provided for under Political Parties Act, Section 14(5) is based on Article 103; this is about when a member is deemed to have resigned. That deeming is a matter of evidence. I do not think by failing to attend a sitting of the House a party will say that the Member has resigned. I doubt if there is a party which has in its constitution provisions that require Members not to attend Parliament and if a Member attends then they are deemed to have resigned from the party. Of course, there will be an issue, if that matter is brought before the House, under the Powers and Privileges Committee. The Committee, will obviously look at the circumstances of the purported deeming; we cannot say that a Member has resigned from a political party merely because they attended Parliament. Among other things, the Member is elected to be in Parliament. I do not think it is a matter that should worry us a lot. However, you may benefit from what I can see hon. Oluoch holding. I think he is looking at Article 103 of the Constitution. Hon. Oluoch, the Floor is yours.
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Thank you, hon. Speaker. I appreciate your instructions on the issue raised by hon. Ochanda. I think some of us may imagine that the issues raised by hon. Ochanda are theoretical. If you look at the way political parties in this country are behaving lately, you are going to be confronted very soon with very serious issues on interpretation of Article 103(1)(e). Recently, I am aware that the House was asked to deal with the issue of absence for eight consecutive sittings. However, the House has not been asked to look at the interpretation where a Member is deemed to have resigned from a party by conduct. You know, as a lawyer, that “by conduct” can be as wide as anything. I believe very soon you are going to be confronted with this. Therefore, in my humble view, and with all due respect for what you have said, I think what hon. Ochanda has said needs very serious and deep thinking about the provisions of Article 103 of the Constitution and the Political Parties Act in relation to the constitutions of our parties. This is so that you give guidance to the House in the event that a Member of this House is going to be faced with harassment of that nature, since I can see harassment coming our way.
Leader of Majority Party, it is fair to also appreciate that cases will have to be dealt with depending on their peculiar circumstances. Whatever ruling we make, which is general, may not satisfy specific instances and facts. I, therefore, think it is fair to say that each case should be decided on its own merit. Let us hear the Leader of Majority Party.
Hon. Speaker, looking at hon. Ochanda, the Member for Bondo and hon. Olago Aluoch, the harassment is real. In my community, when a man is about to die, the signs are there. These Members are telling you that they can see danger and they need to fight. The matter raised by hon. Ochanda, Member for Bondo, is real. It started last week with hon. Chidzuga, hon. Dalmas, my good friend, hon. Ken Obura and my friend, hon. Arama. My opinion on this matter is that when you are a Member of Parliament under the leadership of the National Assembly, you operate within Article 95 of the Constitution and Article 103(3), which says the only person who can implement that is the Speaker. Therefore, if your party tells you not to go to the House because there is a Jubilee Motion and you do not come for eight consecutive sittings, you will lose your seat. This is very clear. However, on the other hand if you are deemed - the word “deem,” as you know, is a very complicated adjective. It relates to dress, walking, association, which funeral you have attended, which political rally you have attended, how you were looking and whether you were dressed in Jubilee colours---
On a point of order, hon. Speaker.
If you allow me, I am on a point of order. You will have your time because I am trying to raise the danger. There is a serious danger. It is like AlShabaab coming, and you have to find a way of dealing with it. Therefore, there is danger on the other side, but for us, there is no danger. We do not even know how to “deem”.
I think on the other one of Political Parties Act, Section 15, which you have referred to, it is a political process. If your party believes that in a certain way you are contravening the party agenda, then the discipline of the Member of Parliament will start with the political parties’ grassroots base. You will have to go to your county. The The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
National Executive Council (NEC) has to recommend your expulsion. The matter is first taken before the National Executive Council. It goes to the National Disciplinary Council (NDC) and then to the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC). If the IEBC is happy, it will come to the Speaker. In case the Speaker is satisfied, then it will go up to the Supreme Court. It is quite a long process. However, if you miss eight consecutive sittings without the permission of the Speaker, just because you have been directed by a leader, who is not even a Member of Parliament, or even a Member of the Senate, then you are in problems. I mean, it is as clear as the day. Therefore, you come to Parliament and fulfill your mandate within Article 95. Represent your people, oversee the Executive and do legislation. I only wanted to say that when you see the Member for Bondo standing on a Wednesday afternoon and then he is supported by the Member for Kisumu West, the threat is real.
You must give a serious communication, so that they go back when they know that the threat is not real anymore. Thank you.
Well, hon. Ochanda is the adviser because this issue, which he has raised, has been put down in writing. We will be making an appropriate communication responding to the issues. He has actually put them in writing and they are very specific. So, we will be making a specific communication or ruling addressing all the issues raised. I hope you have given a copy to the Clerk’s Department, so that the Clerk can prepare the communication. Hon. Wamalwa, is it another point of order?
Hon. Speaker, my friend, the Leader of Majority Party was not on a point of order. You had given him an opportunity to contribute and I was to raise a point of order, because he is misleading this House in terms of the word “deemed”. I do not think the word “deemed” is an adjective. It is a verb but he told us it is an adjective, which is wrong. I wanted him to correct that. It is a verb.
I can tell you that before we came up with the new political parties law of 2007, which was operationalized on 1st July 2008, the problem which is covered by Article 103 and then found in the Political Parties Act was then contained in Section 17 of the National Assembly Powers and Privileges Act. We still had the problem of dealing with the word “deem”. When do you deem? When is it right to deem that hon. Abdikadir, because he is seated next to hon. Olago Aluoch, has become his partner? When do we deem? That is why I am saying a lot of these things will depend on the peculiar circumstances giving rise to a particular cause of action or a complaint. However, we will be responding to the issues raised by hon. Ochanda. Hon. Abdikadir, do you want to say you are a partner?
Thank you. No, I just wanted to say that I think Article 103 and the Political Parties Act, Section 14(7) are very clear on the issue, and I am glad that you are going to give a ruling on this particular issue. I just wanted to say that, that particular Sub-section (7) is very clear. It says that a member of a political party may only be expelled from that political party if he has infringed the constitution of that political party. It continues and I do not need to read it further. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
I just wanted to say that the reference by my good brother, the Leader of Majority Party, that the two hon. Members are actually in a real threat is not true. There is no threat at all. I think on the very opposite, hon. Ochanda is most likely safe because he is in the Orange Democratic Movement (ODM). I know in our constitution, it is not written that you will be expelled from the party if you come to a sitting of the House. It could be that he is raising that, probably, because it is written in the constitutions of our brothers on the other side. Therefore, let the leader of the party not point a finger at the two hon. Members. In any case, they are not in the same political party. One is in FORD(K) and the other is in ODM. So, there is no real threat on our side. The points he has raised are good and we will be waiting for your clarification. I want to say that ODM, the party he belongs to, underscored that there is no threat in that regard. We will attend this House as under Article 103.
Well, I am sure that gives comfort. Hon. Mwadeghu, the Majority Chief Whip.
Mheshimiwa Spika, naomba pia mwongozo wako kuhusu hili suala kwa sababu kinara wa walio wengi Bungeni na kiongozi mwenzangu ametoa hoja hapa ya kumaanisha kuwa hawa mabwana waheshimiwa wa Bondo na Kisumu wako katika hatari kubwa ya kufurushwa kwa chama. Suala kama hili naomba nilichangie kwa sababu mimi ni mhusika. Wasiwasi wa hawa ndugu zangu waheshimiwa, naomba niutulize. Chama chetu cha Orange Democratic Movement (ODM), si chama cha kuvamia mambo ya kuweza kufukuza wenzetu wa chama kiholela. Kwanza, tunaanzia mashinani, na katiba ya chama iko. Kama hufuati katiba ya chama na mwongozo wa chama, unafanya nini chamani? Hilo ndilo suali.
What is your point of order, Leader of Majority Party?
On a point of order, hon. Speaker. Did you hear what the Minority Kinara said? I can confirm to the House as the Leader of Majority Party that hon. Mwadeghu is a beneficiary of a position as the Minority Leader when another leader from the same region was chased away by the same party. You are a beneficiary of the chasing away of hon. Mung’aro. So, what are you telling us? You should never resign if you want to. I will confirm to him that last week alone, the same party--- I want to correct him that hon. Olago Aluoch is not a Member of ODM. You denied him the ticket and his people brought him here on a FORD (K) ticket. So, we are only dealing with hon. Ochanda of Bondo. The last list for de-whipping was in this House, not from Wiper, FORD(K), United Republican Party (URP), The National Alliance (TNA) or National Rainbow Coalition (NARC-Kenya). Martha Karua of NARC-Kenya has one Member, and she has never written a letter to de-whip a Member. However, ODM has written letters and you are the one who signed them. Is he in order to mislead this House? Hon. Mwadeghu: Mheshimiwa Spika, sielewi pilipili asiyo ila inamwashia nini. Sielewi. Hii pilipili hajaila, hiki chama alikuweko akatoroka mwenyewe kwa mapenzi yake mwenyewe, akaenda upande ule mwingine. Sasa kinachomwasha mheshimiwa Duale ni nini? Wala hatukumhitaji katika chama chetu. Chama chetu ni cha kufuata sheria ile ilioko. Hawa ndugu zetu ambao unasema kuwa nimebahatika kuwa na nafasi yao, hawakufukuzwa bali waliondolewa kwa kamati. Naomba tutofautishe kati ya The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
kumfukuza mtu kwa chama na kuondoa mtu kwa kamati. Haya ni mambo tofauti kabisa. Naomba nimwelimishe ndugu yangu na sitamlipisha chochote.
Hon. Members, I thought you rose on a point of order.
Mheshimiwa Spika, naomba nikamilishe. Mwenzangu, katika hii hoja ya nidhamu aliyosimama, kwa maoni yangu, anapotosha Bunge kusema kuwa hawa ndugu zetu wako katika hatari kubwa sana ya kufurukushwa kwa chama. Kama wamefuata sheria, hakuna mtu yeyote atakayefurukushwa. Lakini kama hawatafuata---
So, you are confirming that they are not in danger. Hon. Members, there is nothing to argue about here. The issue raised by hon. Ochanda is clear. I am aware that every party has a constitution, and I gave direction that there is a requirement that every party, before taking any action has to follow its constitution. With regard to the other issue that hon. Mwadeghu has addressed, that is a matter for the Standing Orders. He acted within the provisions of Standing Order No. 176. So, that is not in dispute. Hon. Olago Aluoch.
Hon. Speaker, the issue raised by hon. Ochanda is a very serious one. It is a national issue. I am disappointed because the Leader of Minority Party and the Leader of Majority Party are raising political party issues. I am being bundled as if I am the one who is in danger. I want to say that I am not in danger because I am in FORD (K).
Hon.Olago Aluoch, it is good to hear that you are not in any danger.
Hon. Members, leave me to deal with the issue raised by hon. Ochanda. I expected that you would address it but you have all decided to digress. So, leave me with the task of dealing with the issue in accordance with the provisions of the said Article 103 of the Constitution, alongside the provisions of our Standing Orders and the Political Parties Act.
Order, hon. Members! We are now dealing with the Committee of the whole House on the Public Service (Values and Principles) Bill.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:- THAT, clause 10 be amended- (a) in subclause (1), by deleting the expression “public service’’ and substituting therefor the expression “service Commission” (b) by inserting the following new subclause immediately after subclause (3)- “(4) A service Commission, a public institution or an authorised officer shall provide adequate and equal opportunities for training and advancement, at all levels of the public service for- (a) men and women; (b) members of all ethnic groups; and (c) persons with disabilities.”
Hon. Kamama, give a brief overview and justify the amendment.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, in this Act, no mention has been made regarding the opportunities for training of all public servants, and so we brought in this clause, so that we can have civil servants trained. This training must be provided for in law because if it is provided for in policy, it may not be taken seriously. Therefore, we have done this so that public servants can get good training opportunities within the Public Service.
So, hon. Kamama, you want to substitute “Public Service” for “Public Service Commission.”
In the affirmative, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman.
There are a few Members who want to contribute. Hon. Kathuri Murungi.
Thank you hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I support the amendment as moved by hon. Kamama because in the Public Service, you realise that there is a lot of laxity in the way people work. One of the reasons why we do not have good service delivery is because there is no training for continuous improvement in the service. I support this amendment because our men and women in the Public Service should be trained. This training can also help them get promotions in the various departments that they work in. If possible, those who are already trained and those who are undergoing training, I wish this law could facilitate them to get promotions. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Very well. Hon. Shabbir, do you want to speak to this one or you are waiting for the next one?
I was waiting. I beg your pardon.
Okay. We will go to hon. Waiganjo. Let us have hon. Makali Mulu.
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. With regard to the Public Service and the Public Service Commission, I agree with the issue of training, but what is the difference between the two? Could the Mover, please, explain the difference? I do not see why we need to change it.
As we wait for hon. Kamama, the Member for Balambala, what did you want to contribute on? That one or you were on another issue?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I also have the same concern as hon. Makali Mulu. Clause 10 talks about public institutions. If we delete “public service” and substitute the words “service commission” for it, the meaning will not only be lost, but there will also be a reduction in scope in terms of the fair play in promotions and the good things that need to be done. It is not only limited to the Public Service Commission. It should be for the entire public service.
Let us hear from two more Members. I will give a chance to the Leader of Majority before I come back to hon. (Maj- Gen.) Nkaissery. Hon. Nkaissery, do you want to peak on the specific one? Hon. Nkaissery, you want to speak to this one? Just nod and I will know.
I have the microphone.
The General should wait for his time. The microphone is mine. Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I agree with hon. Makali Mulu. We are dealing with a Bill on Public Service. The Public Service deals with all the public service commissions. It deals with the Parliamentary Service Commission, the Judicial Service Commission, the Teachers Service Commission and the Public Service Commission. So, we cannot put the title “commission” in this Bill. That is the first one. Secondly, I can see that we are going to dilute the whole Bill. When we give the parameters under Article 10, a public service, a public institution or an authorized officer shall ensure public officers---
The Leader of Majority Party, as you speak to it, I am seeing the proposition by hon. Kamama. He has proceeded to define these commissions as the Public Service Commission, the Parliamentary Service Commission, the Judicial Service Commission, the Teachers Service Commission, the Public Service Board and the County Assembly Service Board; to me this encompasses everything.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I agree with you, but there is a difference between the meaning of the word “service” and “commission”. A commission is an entity. So, he is defining the entity and the subtitle must be the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
“service”. We are dealing with the service. Service will apply to the various commissions.
So, basically, you are opposing?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I am opposing. That is why I am saying that we should not run away from the title of the Bill, which is “Public Service (Values and Principles) Bill, 2014.” If we substitute “commission” for it, then the Chair must also amend the title.
Member for Kiminini, that should be it and we make a decision.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. The Leader of Majority Party has said what I was going to say. It brings confusion and removes clarity. As he clearly puts it, the Bill is about Public Service. As he has explained, “by Public Service”, we mean all the commissions which have already been given a description. Going back is going to create chaos. We should not accept that amendment.
Hon. Kamama, do you want to proceed with it? If you want, then I will proceed to put the Question. What is it, hon. Kamama, that you want to do?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I have no objection. We have done some thorough consultation on this. However, if the Leader of Majority Party and the House feel that it may not be in tune, then that will do no harm. I do not think there is going to be a problem with the Public Service Commission.
That is okay. Then we will proceed. You have withdrawn, have you not?
Yes, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:- THAT
I would like those Members who want to contribute to this to put it at the intervention slot. We will start with hon. Mwaura.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I would want to support that amendment especially because some elected leaders have served in a distinguished manner in the Public Service, and they know how the Government runs. It is only fair for them to be consulted, so that they can also give a proper input.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I am a bit worried. I agree with the spirit behind that amendment, but when you just leave it as “elected leaders”, it is open-ended. When you look at the Law Society of Kenya (LSK), their leaders are also elected. When you look at all other groups that he has mentioned, members are also elected. It needs a bit of justification, so that we do not bring in confusion. In any case, when you talk of elected leaders, are you also talking of the county elected leaders, namely the MCAs? There are Members of the National Assembly and the Senators. We do not want this to bring confusion. The Senate will say that it has not been consulted and the Bill has not gone to the Senate. It is my humble request that hon. Kamama looks at this in terms of doing the cost-benefit analysis, so that there is clarity before we dispense with this matter. It might be opening another pandora’s box.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. With regard to what the Chairman has just said, we had ventilated on that in the Committee. The question that hon. Wamalwa has raised is also mentioned in the Committee. Basically, it is just for political leaders. Nothing much. It is not about the LSK, Athletics Kenya or Football Kenya Federation. We were just leaving it at that.
Lastly, I will give Hon. Mulu. We will then end up with the Leader of Majority Party, and then we deal with it.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. When you look at Clause 11---
Be brief and to the point.
The focus is on public participation and involvement. What this clause is trying to do is ensure that as you conduct public participation and involvement, elected leaders are involved for purposes of mobilization. Even if you are elected by whoever, it means you can mobilize. I think that is the whole purpose.
So, you are supporting?
Yes, I am supporting. I am saying it is important we have elected leaders.
Let us be as brief as that. Leader of Majority Party, go straight to the point as we finalize.
Yes, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. One, this clause is in relation to Section 53 of the County Governments Act. That is where you find village councils. It is not on the national Government. I do not see any harm because we have Maendeleo ya Wanawake leaders and youth leaders who are elected. I think this would The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
not have--- If you look at the whole thing, if you have welfare associations, those are community associations and there are residents. Let us agree with the Chairman that people who are in the village, who are in one way or the other--- In my community we have a borehole association. Those guys who manage water and their leaders are elected. I think there is no harm.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move;-
THAT, clause 17 be amended in subclause (2) by inserting the following new paragraph immediately after paragraph (I)—
“(m) the provision of adequate and equal training opportunities for training”.
There is actually no mention of regulation on training opportunities. We have provided this, so that it is codified in law that public servants should be given training opportunities.
Hon. Abongotum, so that we are clear, it is not paragraph (1), it is paragraph (I)?
Yes, it is Paragraph (I) actually.
Yes. Sometimes (I) is closer to (1). That is the justification. We want to provide regulations for training opportunities to all public servants.
I thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I just want to be clear. Is it (I) or (L)? Can the Chairman make it clear whether it is paragraph (I) or (L)?
Actually it is (l); you are right. So, the paragraph to be inserted is numbered (m). I think that is the proper position. Seeing no major interest, I proceed to put the Question.
Hon. Leader of Minority Party, I had indicated that any hon. Member who wanted to speak to this should put it in the intervention slot; that is how I am able to differentiate. Yours was not indicating, I obviously would have given you a chance and you know that. Now that you have put it in the right place--- If you will want to contribute to the next one, you surely will have an opportunity. On the issue of grammar, I think that is something that can be sorted out easily.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move;- THAT, clause 2 be amended by— (a) deleting the definition of “service commission” and substituting therefor the following new definition—“service Commission” means—
(a) the Public Service Commission;
(b) the Parliamentary Service commission;
(c) the Judicial Service Commission;
(d) the National Police Service Commission;
(e) the Teachers Service Commission;
(f) a County Public Service Board; or
(g) a County Assembly Service Board”. (b) inserting the following new definition in its proper alphabetical order—“proportionate representation” means the representation of an ethnic group relative to its national population size based on the latest published national census report.
Hon. Mwaura, you want to speak to that one? Hon. (Maj-Gen.) Nkaissery if you want to speak to it, I have indicated that you put it at the intervention slot.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I have a little concern here. If you look at the commissions that have been enumerated here, I am just wondering whether there are those which have the title ‘service commission’ because we are leaving other constitutional commissions that, of course, are part of the Public Service and should be under this ambit.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. This morning in our Committee meeting, we had a big problem with a commission that says it is independent; it should not be subjected to any other person or any other authority in this country. The first description that is in the Bill captures all public service, but if you list a The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
few of them and leave other independent commissions, it means that they are not subject to these provisions. I think this is a wrong amendment.
I will give you last hon. A.B. Duale. What is this procedural issue?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, it is very unconstitutional. This Bill is dealing with commissions of Chapter 15. There is nowhere the County Assembly Service Board and County Public Service Board are mentioned. This is unconstitutional. We will tell the Chairman to withdraw it because this is a constitutional Bill. This Bill, if you ask, is derived from a particular section of the Constitution for Parliament to legislate.
Let us have other hon. Members contribute to it. I am listening and we will make a decision.
Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. As the Leader of Majority Party has alluded to, those county public service boards are not commissions. Those boards and commissions are only concerned with issues of national Government. So, I am totally opposed to this. That is point number one. Point number two is this: Paragraph (b) of the proposed amendment to Clause 2 is a very dangerous amendment. You cannot move this nation based on the proportion of the population. It is going to marginalise other Kenyans. So, we must be extremely careful when talking about membership of commissions. If you base it on the number of people at that particular time, it means there are certain communities which will never get the opportunity to serve in the commission.
I have heard you, hon. (Maj- Gen.) Nkaissery. Now let us have the Member for Sigowet/Soin.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I want to join my colleagues in saying that I am opposed to this amendment. Bringing on board the county public service boards and county assembly service boards is not necessary since we are dealing with a constitutional matter. Even if we were to bring them on board, paragraph (b) of the proposed amendment to Clause 2 talks of the population of an ethnic group relative to the national population size. In this case, we would have to bring on board a population related to the population of the county. I am opposed to the two amendments. Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman.
I think we have heard it. So, I will put the Question unless the Chair wants to withdraw.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, we did thorough consultations on this. However, I stand guided by the House and the Leaders of the Majority and Minority parties. We can withdraw the county public service boards and county assembly service boards as proposed, so that they can organise their own things at the county level. We can also withdraw paragraph (b) of the proposed amendment to Clause 2 because somebody is saying that, that board can be controlled by the “big five” communities that we know. So, I withdraw the two portions of the amendment.
You have withdrawn and so, we will simply proceed. So, I will put the Question. I hope that you get what I am doing, Members. I want to put the question to Clause 2 to be part of the Bill because before there was an amendment, there is a particular Clause 2 which already exists
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I have heard what the Leader of Majority Party has said. If he withdraws, we go to what was there originally. In what is written here, already the county public service boards and the county assembly service boards are part of this Bill. So, what will happen?
Once it is withdrawn, my hands are tied. So, I will simply proceed and put the Question that it be part of the Bill. Let us have the Leader of Majority Party.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I agree with hon. Mulu.
I know you know the position that it is already withdrawn. We are now dealing with Clause 2 of the Bill.
Yes, it is withdrawn. What the Chairman was doing and one thing on which we disagreed with him is that he was elevating the county public service boards and the county assembly service boards to the level of commissions like the Judicial Service Commission (JSC) and the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC). However, we have no problem with the way the Bill has taken care of them at the county governments.
Hon. Members, we must concentrate. We are through with this particular Bill. I, therefore, call upon the Mover to move.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move that the Committee doth report to the House its consideration of the Public Service (Values and Principles) Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 29 of 2014) and its approval thereof with amendments.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): The Chairperson.
I beg to report that a Committee of the whole House has considered the Public Service (Values and Principles) Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 29 of 2014) and approved the same with amendments.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): The Mover.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the House doth agree with the Committee in the said Report. I request hon. Kamama, the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security, to second.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): The Mover.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the Public Service (Values and Principles) Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 29 of 2014) be now read the Third Time. I request hon. Kamama, Member for Tiaty, to second.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Today is a great day. We are through with one of the constitutional Bills.
Now it is for the Speaker to send a Message to the Senate. This is a Bill that will make the Ndorobos, Ogieks, Somalis, Maasais, Samburus, Turkanas, Pokots and other marginalized communities to serve in the Public Service. Now that the Pokots are fighting, we must create jobs for them.
The Kambas are among the “big five” communities. This is a very good Bill. Never again will a Kenyan be discriminated against based on his religion, ethnic background or the region he comes from. This Bill sets the agenda for who will serve in our Public Service. Never again will you see public servants who will hang their coats in the office to go and run their clinics, shops or businesses. I want to thank my colleagues, Members of the National Assembly and the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security for, at least, making sure that this Bill, which is one of the Bills for which we extended the time by nine months, is completed on time. I hope my colleagues in the Senate will do the same so that Kenyans will have a Bill that will be assented to by the President. So, I want to thank all Members of the National Assembly for a job well done. Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Any other hon. Members who wants to contribute?
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. As we move forward, those constitutional Bills have been having issues. As much as we have managed to do this, we want to thank hon. Members and, particularly, the Chairman of the Departmental Committee for the work well done. We want to call upon the Constitutional Implementation Oversight Committee (CIOC) - I cannot see the Chairman, hon. Baiya here - that as we move on with those constitutional Bills, as hon. Members of that respective Committee, they should come up with individual bills, Private Bills that are constitutional so that we do not embarrass ourselves again and extend the time of passing those constitutional Bills. More importantly, the Commission for the Implementation of the Constitution (CIC), the busybodies, Mr. Nyachae and the Attorney-General, whatever is going on, he should move with speed so that they can bring them here. Even for the Executive, those who are required to bring those constitutional Bills should speed up so that we can complete those things on time. We should not run late and later on come again and start pushing for time. I want to thank hon. Members and, of course, the Leader of Majority Party for work well done.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I am also happy that for, once, we have actually kept time. It is unfortunate that in this country, some of the things that we are legislating on are sort of moral issues. We are trying to create a code that the Public Service has to adhere to. If for only one reason, I would have supported this particular Bill because it has recognized the rights of people living with disability. It is asking all public entities to ensure that it takes affirmative action to ensure that those people become integrated in Public Service, even if it means coming up with affirmative action. So, I am happy that, that is a sector of the society that we have touched on through this Bill.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Members, take your seats, please.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, pursuant to Article 240(7) of the Constitution and Section 16 of the National Security Council Act, this House notes the Annual Report to Parliament on the State of the National Security submitted by H. E. the President on Thursday, 27th March, 2014, and laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 1st April, 2014.
For the avoidance of doubt, this is a Report that the President laid on the Table. We are coming to the end of our second Session because we anticipate to go on recess on 4th December, 2014. This report should be debated before we go on recess. We anticipate, as per the Constitution - the same Article - that the President will do a similar Report to the country early next year. In compliance with Article 240(7) and Section 16 of the National Security Council Act, 2012, this Report was given on 27th March, 2014 by the President. It is coming at the right time because yesterday, many hon. Members wanted to contribute to the Adjournment Motion on the security situation in our country. This Motion is the right time for hon. Members to discuss the myriad of challenges. I will go as per this Report because I am moving it. I will not go out of the Report. The threats to Kenya’s national security are evaluated from the national, regional and global levels. Key among the threats that we face as a country is terrorist attacks and armed incursions by the Al Shabaab militia or the terror network. Two, as a country, we are faced with radicalization of Kenyan youth into violent extremism.Three, we are a faced with a serious resource-based conflict among the many pastoral communities in the North Rift, North Eastern and parts of the Coast Province. Four, we have a serious challenge as far as poaching of wildlife is concerned. Trafficking of humans, drugs and contraband is a threat that we are facing as a country. We are faced with organized crime gangs. We are faced with cyber crime. We are faced with environmental and other natural disasters. We are faced with the influx of refugees. We host the biggest refugee camp in the entire world. In addressing all those threats, of course, the magnitude of those threats differs. In addressing those security threats and challenges, the Government undertook a number of measures. Those measures include strategies on the formation of a Counter Terrorism Institute; the formation of a cyber- security network within the Criminal Investigations Department (CID) and involvement The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
of leaders and the Government to counter youth radicalization in terms of providing youth empowerment. Road safety was a threat as a security measure but now it has come down by about 33 per cent. Eradication of corruption: Corruption is endemic. Corruption is a major threat to our security. Why do I say so? Corruption is in the centre of our political body. Unless we deal with corruption, both in the security sector and in all public and private sectors, Kenya will not join the middle income nations. Restructuring of the former Provincial Administration as envisaged in the Constitution, the creation of a multi-agency special unit to combat poaching and trafficking is also one of the measures the Government has put in place. Other measures undertaken by the Government, under the leadership of President Uhuru Kenyatta, was the introduction of the Nyumba Kumi Initiative. I want to make it very clear that with the number of police officers we have, the Government cannot provide a policeman for each and every citizen. It is upon all of us, the 40 million Kenyans, to make sure that we feel it. We have a duty to secure and work with other security agents to make sure that Kenya becomes a safe place. The introduction of the
Initiative was meant that Kenyans can police themselves; Kenyans can know their neighbours; Kenyans can know their business colleagues in the neighbourhood; Kenyans can offer information and Kenyans can play a role in the creation of a more safe and secure nation. Two, there was a creation of a multi-agency national disaster response unit because when an incident happens, whether it is terror or any other crime, we do not have a strategy. So, a multi-agency national disaster response unit was established. A modern national command and control centre was established. For the first time, a forensic laboratory was unveiled at the CID Headquarters. There have been regional security initiatives including commencing work towards the repatriation of refugees in northern Kenya and in Kakuma. A tripartite agreement has been signed between the Kenya Government, the Somalia Government and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) agency that deals with refugees. Undertaking cross-border disarmament programmes and the revision of the Fire Arms Act was part of the measures that were felt would enhance or deter crime. As a result of this effort, normal crime, apart from the terror network, has reduced by 8 per cent during the period under review when the President tabled the Report. That is the period 2012/2013. With those achievements notwithstanding, the country is faced with serious socio-economic threats that continue to impact on our national security objective. What are those? There is high prevalence of youth un-employment and high levels of poverty among our citizens and a steady erosion of social fabric and values. When you see women being stripped and a three year old girl being raped by her two uncles and you compare that with those who, instead of deterring as a social responsibility, pick it, tape it and use their mobile phones to put in the social media, the question we are asking is this: Where those women are being stripped, there are thousands of Kenyans before a policeman comes. Why are they not stopping those acts? The Tom Mboya Street, Moi Avenue and River Road are highly populated areas. Instead of deterring, because security starts with me and you and everybody else, what do the citizens of our country do? They use their mobile phones to record and put it on the social media. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
The problem is bigger than the police officers. The problem is social. We have a moral problem in our country. This is a serious challenge to our religious leaders, be they Muslims, Christians, Hindus or Jews. They must ask themselves what is happening. A three-year old girl was raped. I am not sure if it was in Nyeri County. It was on television last night. It was in one of the counties. She was raped by her two uncles. You want to ask: What happened to the neighbourhood? What happened to the mother who left her three-year daughter? This is a serious matter. This country needs soul-searching. This country needs a serious national discussion.
The other one is inadequate resources. Before I even go there, you saw when the President went to Kapedo, in a serious public rally, a Senator stood up and said: “Mr. President, we thought we were killing Turkanas”, and he was not arrested. He said: “Mr. President, we thought we were not killing your police officers. We thought we were killing Turkanas and home guards.” He said that in front of the public and in front of the Commander-in-Chief of the Kenya Defence Forces. The life of a Turkana, Pokot or any other Kenyan is important. This is a leader of the 21st Century. That is how Kenya has gone down the moral fabric. We have gone down and we must go back. If you are a Muslim, you need to go back to the mosque. If you are a Christian, you need to go back to the Church and ask yourself what is happening. So, we have a serious moral decay. It is the same in Mombasa. There are over 300 mosques in my constituency. At 8.30 p.m. after the last prayer, those mosques are closed. I want to speak for the Muslim faithful. Islam is a religion of peace. Our own greetings, Assalamu Alaikum call others to peace. Never in the history of the Islamic religion or in Christianity was a house of worship used for any other purpose other than making it closer to your God. So, like I said yesterday, the matter is bigger than ole Lenku and Kimaiyo. I asked a question yesterday. The Chairman of the Committee on Administration and National Security is here. I will leave that to the Committee. The matter is even bigger than the Committee and even than this House. It is a serious national issue. What we are facing is exactly what Iraq, Syria and every country is facing. It is a serious global terrorism threat. But, what is unique to Kenya - we must call a spade a spade and we must cheer the President – is that the biggest threat in our country today is corruption. From Mandela to Nairobi through Thika, there are over 1,000 road blocks and yet, grenades and arms pass through. Foreigners buy our documents. If somebody wants to bomb the National Assembly today, he needs only USD3,000. You will get entry even when the House is full. We must analyse our political body, which is embedded in corruption. If a CEO of a public company in Kenya retires when he is poor, his community will say he is very useless. You are not worth that job. Position is equated to eating. What are you eating? You are eating public money which is meant for roads. So, we need to speak to ourselves across the political divide; Kenyans of all political shades. I said this and I will repeat it today: When the Americans were hit by terrorists on 11th September under the leadership of President George W. Bush, they came together, from the media, the social networks, civil society to the opposition. By then, the Democrats said: “Our nation is under attack!” Today, our nation is under attack from the
terror network. We must come together and unite. We must secure our The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
nation. It is not about the blame game. It is not about President Kenyatta, Kimaiyo or ole Lenku. A number of terrorist attacks have happened during the period when the President tabled his Report. What has this Government done? That is why I feel the pain. For the first time since Independence, this Government has invested heavily through the assistance of the National Assembly in the security sector in order to enhance security surveillance, peace building and conflict management. I watch people on television saying that we need to allocate more resources. No! I totally disagree. For the first time since Independence, we have invested heavily in the security sector than ever before, under this Parliament. We have improved their welfare. This Government is giving them a very elaborate housing scheme. There has never been an insurance policy for our men and women in uniform. We have completed the forensic laboratory, established the command and control centre, and created the national master database and biometric registration of persons. Lease of police aircraft and motor vehicles has been done under this Government. What are we lacking? The human resource structure of our police is where the problem is. I am sure hon. (Maj-Gen.) Nkaissery and those who were in the last Parliament will agree with me. I was shocked to find out that we are the only country in the world that has two parallel police command structures; the Administration Police led by my good friend, Samuel Arachi and the National Police Service, led by Grace Kaindi. Hon. (Maj-Gen.) Nkaissery will agree with me that there is nowhere in the world where we have parallel police. We said in this House: “Let us have one police.” My colleagues in the Coalition for Reforms and Democracy (CORD) should bring that in the referendum. That is where we have a problem. There is a problem of command. What is intelligence? It is gathering intelligence from the lower cadre of the community. You employ the newspaper vendors, the hotel attendants, receptionists, shoe-shiners, matatu touts, bus drivers, taxi drivers and watchmen. That is why a country like Ethiopia, which has a serious problem with the Al Shabaab, has never been threatened to date. This is because of the intelligence network. I am sure my colleagues will agree with me. When you travel with Ethiopian Airlines and you are on transit, you can even notice at the airport, people who serve passengers. They are intelligence officers. It is the same thing with Egypt; countries that are under threat. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, our intelligence strategy must change. You do not need to tap hon. A.B. Duale’s phone. Why do you want to tap my telephone? Either I am talking to my colleagues, to my family, hon. Waititu in Juja, hon. Mwashetani, the former Prime Minister or the former Vice-President on their retirement Bill. We have invested heavily in our intelligence. Our two Chairs are here; the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Defence and Foreign Relations, the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security and the other Chairs. Let Parliament not be used. Let us do our oversight to the people of Kenya. If we feel that a person is not capable of running an institution, let us not be driven away by our ethnic cacoons or by our personal interest. Let us work for Kenya. Let us save Kenya and allow the President to provide the manifesto that will change the socio-economic status of our people. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
However, if the President will be dealing with security every morning and evening--- The country recruits 10,000 police officers every year. Today, our reformed Judiciary has decided that we are not going to recruit. There were very few areas where there was corruption and the court cancelled the whole of it. What about those innocent ones who ran and won to be members of the Police Service? Who will pay for their justice? You are paying the justice of the few who lost their positions because of corruption. What about the guys who won fairly from very poor families? That is a debate for those hon. Members. However, this House has allocated money and we cannot recruit police officers because of our reformed Judiciary. In a nutshell, the matter is about us all as leaders. The matter is how we can secure our country. The 2017 elections is a different ball game. There are leaders who do not want to face their communities. There are leaders in this House and in this country who do not want to face their communities when they commit serious national security crimes because they might lose the elections. The Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security, please, you do not know whether you will reach 2017. If the Pokots are a threat to national security, stand up and say the Pokots must stop that. We will not agree as Muslims in this country to play politics with those who want to use sacred mosques to perpetuate hatred and killings. We will not. I am one of the people who believe that houses of God must be respected. Every leader will be counted on an hour like this when the nation is under attack. I want to urge my colleagues because Adjournment Motions will not help. Let us not lament and cry like the ordinary citizens of our country. We have been given a mandate under Article 95 of the Constitution. I saw Senator Bonny Khalwale demonstrating with the civil society. Shame on him! He is a Senator. He has been given powers under Article 96. Let him come to the House. Instead of offering leadership; a leader must lead from the front. I saw him in a T- shirt and I said he is lucky because, if he came to my county, he would not get even 10 votes. National security is not about bull fighting. Finally, I express my disgust today at the funeral of a man I respect a lot; my good friend, the late Senator. Otieno Kajwang’. Is what happened today leadership? The Speaker of the National Assembly and other leaders were shouted down. Is that how you want Kenyans to mourn with you? What kind of politics is that? Today our speaker could not address the mourners. He could only do it after the former Prime Minister had to speak in his vernacular for 20 minutes. Shame! People go there to mourn with you. We want to mourn the death of Senator Otieno Kajwang’. It is very un-African. It is preaching a culture of violence. In conclusion, before I give the Majority Whip to second, let us not be the problem of Kenya as leaders. We are lucky because we have been given an opportunity by the Almighty God and by the voters to get a position so that we can make a difference in the lives of our people. Let us not play politics and ethnic card with the lives of our people. Let us not play cheap politics which is meant for 2017 with the national security of our people. I beg to rest my case and ask hon. Katoo to second. I tell the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security that the problem is not hon. Abongotum. The problem is bigger. It is not Kimaiyo or ole Lenku but the society called The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Kenya. It is a systemic problem and we must address it, even if it means going back to
of Kenya. I beg to reply and ask hon. Katoo to second.
Thank you, Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to second this Motion. First of all, as the Motion says, it is the state of national security in accordance with the Report laid down by the President on the Floor of this House on 27th March this year. I will start by the preamble given by the President in the Report. He says: “Today, the world is facing complex inter-locking security challenges that transcend the national, regional and international environment. Those challenges delay and hinder the full realization of aspirations to attain a state of human security across the world.”The key word he emphasized is the fact that Kenya is no exception to this reality. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, as it is contained in the Report, Kenya is located in one of the world’s main fragile regions. It is very important for the country and this House to know the background of the insecurity problems that we are experiencing. That knowledge, understanding the problem, can really help us look for solutions. It is true that Kenya is located in one of the world’s most fragile regions and it is because of our neighboring countries that have experienced serious security and political challenges in the past that have impacted negatively on our national security.
In the Report, several ways or solutions have been suggested as ways to mitigate the threats and the Government has enumerated those they have taken into action in terms of national and regional co-operation. I think it is important that this House helps the State or the Executive in realizing those goals. I will just highlight about six reasons for insecurity as contained in the Report Under proliferation of illicit arms, it is really shocking to understand that during the year under review, there were over 500,000 illicit small arms in the country. That may even be more than the legal ones. Those are in the hands of criminals and it is important that, as Parliament, we come forward in our oversight and legislation roles to review the Firearm Act and provide stiffer penalties for persons possessing those illegal firearms. There are some measures that the Executive has proposed like marking of the firearms to facilitate ease of tracing and strengthening of intelligence mechanism. They have also proposed the issue of having an East African Protocol on Cattle Rustling that would help mop up all the illegal arms. That is because most of those 500,000 illegal arms, a big percentage, are in areas that are always prone to cattle rustling. The second reason of insecurity is refugees. According to the Report, we have 700,000 refugees in this country. The influx of those refugees has occasioned a lot of security challenges. We nowadays see terrorist groupings really changing under the humanitarian character in the refugee camps and thus infiltrating the recruitment of those refugees. Therefore, they train and coordinate terrorist activities from the safety of the refugee camps. That is another issue that we need to look into. There is also the issue of resource-based conflicts. Resource-based conflicts are happening in the counties. That is where you are seeing cattle rustling because of resources. You are also seeing it in other areas; not necessarily cattle rustling areas. But the resources, political, human and financial, if not shared equitably, they can really raise tension and thus be a source of insecurity. Therefore, we should try to embrace the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
culture and norms of communities embracing peace-building and conflict resolution mechanisms. There is also the issue of unemployment. It is said in the Report that 11 million Kenyans are not employed. The 11 million is about 30 per cent and those are all youth. This has worsened or created a pool that is targeted for recruitment towards radicalization, organized crime gangs and other vices. This issue is also a challenge and we must look for ways to deal with it. I know the Government has proposed some ways of improving the economy; even targeting 10 per cent of our GDP as the economic growth rate and that would help our youth to leave those bad habits. They have proposed the issue of assisting the youth to access credit even using the latest model of Uwezo Fund. I want to say there is also need for those facilities or those mechanisms like Uwezo Fund to be fast-tracked because it is taking a lot of time to be actualized. As we speak now, if any of the constituencies has received their authority to incur expenditure (AIEs), I know the monies have gone to the constituency account but money without AIEs cannot be spent. We, therefore, call upon the concerned authorities to speed up that. The issue of financial limitation has been talked about. If you look at it, it is said for over 20 years, the Ministry of Internal Security has always been under-funded and, therefore, it has been a problem for a long time. So, even if this Government - and I am sure they have increased allocation--- This is the second financial year since the Jubilee Coalition took over power. So, a problem created for 20 years cannot be fixed within a year or two. It is good to note that is another problem. The Mover talked of a breakdown of our social fabric. The issue of stripping of our sisters in the streets is as a result of a breakdown of our social fabric. It is causing a lot of insecurity and even domestic violence. Our values have gone down and crimes against immorality are being brought by such vices. Therefore, it is good that we partner with faith and community-based organizations as proposed in the Report to enhance those civic virtues and have positive values as well as provide psychological support for those victims. Finally, on the causes I have picked, there is this issue of weak coordination. Even the courts have really been so weak in the coordination against terrorism and other insecurity aspects. According to the Report, 150 terrorists have been arraigned in court in the year under review but, maybe, because of our Constitution, all of them have been given bonds. Some have been released because there is no coordination between the judicial system, the prosecution and law enforcement. That circus has really left the public with a lot of frustration and anger. It is the reason that sometimes you see them taking law into their hands and sometimes manifesting mob justice. There is still another weak coordination. When you see the Executive trying to improve the number of personnel in terms of law enforcement by coming up with a policy of employing 10,000 police officers in a year and the other arm of the Government has stopped it, it is serious. We need those people to fight crime. It is not really good coordination. Very important are the three recommendations that His Excellency the President has put in the Report. He said:- “In this regard, the Government looks to the co-operation of Parliament in the process of reviewing legislation to enforce the fight against insecurity by closing any The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
existing gaps on the legislation.” There are so many pieces of legislation that have gaps and it is important that, as a House, we try to fix them. We should try to have them normalized for purposes of fighting insecurity. Like the issue of police command, I think it is good that we have tested the current structure, but it is not working. It is time that we separated the Administration Police from the Regular Police. If you look at the Report, the DCs or the sub-county commissioners on Page 13, it says:- “Historically, the Provincial Administration has been pivotal in coordination of activities, focus on peace-building, harmonious existence in society and alternative methods of dispute resolution. This role remains relevant for the achievement of the sustainable peace and tranquility.” This is very true.
If you go down, you will see that the officers chair the various security committees. The County Commissioners chair the security committee at the county level. The Sub-county Commissioner chairs the security committee at the district level, but those chairpersons of those security committees do not have security officers under them. You chair as the DC, but there is the commander in charge of the AP and the OCPD in charge of the Regular Police. The DC has the chiefs, who are not operational persons. Previously, the Administration Police were under the Provincial Administration. It is time that as a House, we amend the law to take the Administration Police under the Provincial Administration and leave the Regular Police under the command of the Inspector-General (IG).
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Wind up, hon. Member. Your time is up. Wind up, please!
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, please, allow me to talk about the National Police Service Commission. It should be left to deal with employment and dismissal. The Inspector-General of Police should be left to have the command in terms of operations and transfers.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hold on, please! I can see a point of order from hon. Wandayi.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, mine was supposed to be after he has concluded his speech.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Keynan.
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. With due respect, I know my good friend, hon. Metito Katoo is an immediate former Minister for Internal Security. What is facing the representatives of the national Government, from the sub chiefs, the chiefs, the DOs, the Sub-county Commissioners to the County Commissioners is lack of funding. Let us be very pragmatic. Where I come from---
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Keynan, that is not a point of order. You are contributing.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, is it in order for my good friend, hon. Katoo, to mislead Kenyans on the issue of supervision? We know that all Government representatives and, in particular, the Provincial Administrators, have now been reduced to messengers in county governments because of lack of funding?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, my good friend should have waited to make that as a contribution because it is very valid. That is in my notes. We need to change the law because it is crippling the officers, not just in terms of finances, The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
which I have already mentioned, but in terms of having County Commissioners or Sub- Commissioners who do not have powers to exercise security concerns. They have no police officers under them. This is topped up by lack of resources in terms of finances. That is a very valid contribution. So, we need to look into the law. Finally, we also need to look into the issue of security of tenure of office for security officers. If you are the Commander-in-Chief and you cannot even command your own appointee, it is sad. The Inspector-General of Police is appointed by the President, but the President cannot fire him. The head of the KDF does not have security of tenure, but the head of the police has security of tenure. Those are some of the anomalies that we are saying that need to be normalized in the law. Because of time, I want to second.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Yes, hon. Wandayi.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I rise under Standing Order No.97. This Motion is extremely important because it touches on the state of national security. I will be proposing that we limit debate on this Motion to a maximum of five minutes so that many hon. Members can get the opportunity to speak to it.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Wandayi, move that Motion in the language that is dictated.
Much obliged, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I beg to move:- THAT, notwithstanding the resolution of the House passed on Wednesday, 12th February, 2014, this House resolves to limit debate on Order No.9 as follows:- A maximum of five minutes for every Member speaking except the Leader of Majority Party and the Leader of Minority Party, who shall be limited to a maximum of ten minutes each.
Can I continue because I have the microphone?
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): No! Let us have the Leader of Minority Party.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, thank you for giving me this chance to contribute on this Motion. I know that we are not supposed to oppose or support the President’s Report, but we should comment on it. I just want to say that insecurity in this country has reached alarming proportions. It has killed our tourism sector. Today, if you go to the Coast Province, all hotels - and even in Nairobi - are empty and the business people have lost a lot, together with the employees. Agriculture has also collapsed because even in areas where there is cattle rustling, there is no agriculture. If we lose those two economic sectors; agriculture and tourism, the economy will be brought to its knees and it will collapse. This country will The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
not move forward. So, this is a very important Report. Our national security should be subject to the Constitution of Kenya and to this Parliament because it is very important. I also want us to debate on this Motion with a bipartisan approach so that we can tackle it once and for all. Having looked at Article 247 of the Constitution and Section 16 of the National Security Council Act, Cap.206 of the Laws of Kenya and the entire Chapter 14 of the Constitution of Kenya, I think the Report was well drafted, but there exists some room for improvement. It is very important if national security was discussed in a bipartisan approach. When the Westgate attack took place, His Excellency the President, invited the former Prime Minister and the Vice-President, Raila and Kalonzo Musyoka to State House. They issued a statement. It united Kenyans because Kenya was under attack. That painted a very good picture and the whole country got united. We do not want insecurity to be treated as if it is a Government side issue. We want it to be discussed holistically by all sides.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, this country has suffered a lot and we can name so many incidents where we have been attacked. My question is: Do Kenyans understand why we face so much insecurity? Is it because we went to Somalia? What of those countries that are in the AMISOM like Ethiopia, Burundi and Uganda, which are not bombed every day?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, the reason why we have more insecurity than any country in East Africa is because of youth unemployment. We have a lot of idle youth and our country’s economy cannot absorb all the youth who graduate from schools. So, they are idle, frustrated, have nowhere to go and have to live. That causes insecurity because they have to find something to do to earn some income to feed their families. Youth unemployment leads to poverty. There is so much poverty both in the rural and urban areas in this country. If you look at it, Kenya is a rich country but 10 per cent are super rich and 90 per cent are the wretched of the earth – the poorest of the poor.
We have to come up with a formula of taxing the rich to bridge the gap. So long as there are so many poor people in the land of plenty, there will not be security in this country. Let us address it. We may improve our Police Force. We may buy cars and so on but let us bridge the gap between the rich and the poor by trying to apply affirmative action to move people from poverty to levels where they can get their livelihoods.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, corruption has also contributed to insecurity because all those illegal firearms in the country pass through roadblocks. Also, what has brought about this corruption are the low salaries of our police officers.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Member, there is a point of order from hon. Keynan.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. It is not really a point of order. I want to seek your guidance as the Temporary Deputy Speaker. Taking into account what we are debating, and this is a very important issue because without security we do not have a country, since this Report is dated 1st April and since that time, so many things have happened and changed, I want to seek your guidance whether really what we are debating covers the real issues that, as a country, really we ought to be concerned about. I see this Report as being stale. It has completely been overtaken by events and, therefore, we should have either been given an updated The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Report or something that really covers the current issues that are affecting us. That is because the circumstances are completely different. I really want to seek your guidance because right now, it is like Members are meandering and beating about the bush. We need to tackle the real issues affecting this country. The real issues are known.
So, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want to seek your guidance.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Member, this is the latest Report from the President. There is no report that has come after this. Therefore, it is prudent that we debate what we have from the President. This is about noting the Report from the President and that is it.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for protecting me from my colleagues and the protagonists. If you look at the pay slip of a newly employed law enforcement officer, be it an Administration Police (AP), a prison officer or a regular policeman - their starting salary is Kshss18,000 and the house allowance of Kshs.1,200. Surely, where on earth can you get a house for Kshs1,200? The salary they get is so little compared to what we hon. Members are paid and other people. There is no justification. When our police officers are being paid Kshs18,000, and you expect them to enforce the law, they will not do it! They pay medical bills because they are human beings who can be sick. They have no medical cover and they have children who go to school. Those are people who are underpaid and, therefore, they cannot carry on with their duties in that state of low morale. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, if you look at their living conditions, they live in the cone-shaped huts. I wish hon. Members of the National Assembly would go to see where the prison officers, the regular police officers and all the other disciplined officers live. Hon. Abongotum was the Minister for Internal Security and I am sure he understands what I am talking about. That is because I have visited such places. Those officers live in deplorable conditions and they get too little salary. For heaven’s sake, let the National Assembly appropriate their budget and make sure that police officers are paid well, housed properly and insecurity will be a thing of the past. A wise man once said that there are three things one cannot hide - the sun, the moon and the truth. You can hide everything else, but you cannot hide those three things. The truth is one thing that you cannot hide. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, this Report from the President is very good. That is a fact and I have gone through the Report. I am also happy that when the President was in the USA, he was interviewed by Cable News Network (CNN). He said that the Mpeketoni attack was a terrorist attack. It is shame on those people who want to make political capital out of it, by insisting that it was the work of politicians. We need people who are honest and who can speak the truth - the way the President did in the USA. This country is in a very unique situation. Why do Kenyans fight? There is so much insecurity in the country because of socio-economic and political reasons. Insecurity can be finished when Kenyans see that there is fairness, involvement and inclusivity in tackling insecurity. They would buy the idea and support it. We will be more effective. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
The Nyumba Kumi policy is good and for it to be effective, the Opposition should be involved. To involve the Opposition is to recognize our Opposition leaders. Let the Head of State, because he is the President of the whole country, invite Opposition leaders and let them sit down and look for solutions to this problem. That is because if they cannot do it, it can tear this country apart. When Opposition leaders are recognized and are involved in finding solutions on how to tackle it, insecurity will be a thing of the past and all Kenyans will be united.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Nyenze, your time is over. Wind up, please.
I want to conclude by saying that there has been a lot of poaching in the country and that has caused a lot of insecurity. Do these poachers work with the police? When they poach, the ivory passes through our ports.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Asman Kamama.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support the Statement given by the Head of State on the state of our national security as we speak now. The Statement has quite captured the saline security issues that we face as a country and all these challenges are real for Kenya. However, I will go straight to the challenges that we face, especially the challenges arising from the incidents in Mandera, Kapedo, the attack in the military camp in Coast Province and many others. As a nation, I think this is the right time to have dialogue especially on this subject of security because if this country is not secure, we will not invest, create wealth or enjoy staying in it. So, I propose that we have this dialogue and I want to propose that in Parliament, the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security together with the Departmental Committee on Defence and Foreign Relations sit down and look at the legal loopholes that we have. I think almost a year ago, we came up with several amendments to the National Police Service Act and the National Police Service Commission Act. We had several sittings with Kenyans and what we see happening in this country is systemic weaknesses within the police force. We want to see a situation where this country will not entertain two parallel commands for the Administration Police (AP) and Regular Police. When we sat with the Inspector-General of Police we actually requested him that we put this in law. However, he said we wait because he could do it administratively and we gave him six months. It is time we actually came up with an amendment so that we consider either merging the two forces to be one or the Administration Police be commanded by the Provincial Administration as it has been for the last so many years, I think since 1963. So, let us look at this because as we speak right now, the command in the area of APs is actually--- I think it is like they have run out of--- They are actually rogue because they do not get information or command from the Sub-county Commissioner and the Regular Police. We need to have that command harmonised. Secondly, we can actually decide to divide the two. Let us have 23 commanders from the Administration Police and 23 from the Regular Police. This is so that we have one command structure in this country. As we speak, the Regular and Administration Police are talking to each other but not performing security duties to the expectations of Kenyans. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
We therefore need to address those legal and systemic issues and we will do this as a Committee and present our report to Parliament.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Let me interrupt you hon. Kamama. I am seeing two interventions for points of order. Hon. Cecily Mbarire and hon. Kipyegon, are you on points of order?
I hope they will not consume my time.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Go ahead, hon. Kamama.
Again, we need to look at the tenure of the Inspector-General. We need---
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hold on please. You said you are on a point of order. What is out of order?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I think I also want to seek your guidance.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): I hope not on the same issue that I have already ruled.
It is on the same issue because you know we have a digital President – a President that is current. Given the same issue that Mheshimiwa Kamama my friend raised, this Report is stale.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): I have already ruled on that issue, hon. Kipyegon. I am not going to allow you to continue. Hon. Kamama---
It is stale, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker because it does not even touch on the matters that are affecting us now.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): That is the Report that we are noting from the President. There is no other Report from the President. Go on, hon. Asman Kamama.
Actually that is a point of argument, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. In the interest of time we need to look at the tenure of the Inspector-General and reduce it so that he is answerable to the President and he can be fired any time if he is not performing to expectations. We need to do that. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, there is one protocol on cattle rustling in East Africa and there are two Reports that have been generated by this House. Remember the Report on cattle rustling by hon. Kaino who went round this country for almost nine months and tabled a Report in this House. Secondly, there is a Report on the Isiolo cattle rustling incidents that was actually brought to this Parliament by hon. Kapondi and the rest. We need to implement those Reports because they have gathered dust in this House. We need to implement the recommendations of this House on cattle rustling and the provisions of the East African Protocol on Cattle Rustling. We want pastoralists to behave. These issues of cattle rustling in the communities that are practising it like the Pokots, Turkanas, Samburus, Boranas and the rest, should stop. It is not compatible with development. You cannot eat your cake and have it. You cannot promote insecurity and then expect development. You will remain with one. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
The issues of refugees and radicalisation of our youths must also be addressed. We are being told that there is an Islamic Caliphate that is being created within the southern parts of the Horn of Africa. This caliphate---
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Remember we have only five minutes per person, hon. Kamama. Hon. Abdikadir of Balambala, take the Floor.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for the opportunity to contribute to this debate. On the outset, I thank you for your ruling on the issue of the delay of the Report but I agree with you that this Report must be debated because it is a matter of procedure. In future, I think the House Business Committee (HBC) should see how they can fast-track this particular Report. I want to say that the issues discussed in this Report that the President gave to us as a House are very pertinent. They are issues touching on our security---
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Member, sorry. I was meant to recognise youths from Serewe in Kapenguria Constituency of West Pokot County, courtesy of hon. Moroto and hon. Regina. I am sorry I had forgotten to do that. Go ahead.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. The issue of security is of paramount importance and I just wanted to say that as the Chairman of the National Security Council (NSC), and in addition to what has been happening in the country lately, the President should know that we are looking at him for guidance, direction and action in order to tame the runaway insecurity in this country. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, the ball is completely in the hands of the national security team to be able to control and bring back the peace that we enjoyed for very many years. Terrorism and radicalisation are a threat and I want to say that as a nation we need to have a very deep discussion. I am glad that the Leader of Majority Party mentioned that national discussion is needed in order to understand the real problems that are facing us as a nation so that we can be able to bring solutions. Is the problem that we have as a result of our Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) being in Somalia or is it because we harbour such a huge number of refugees in our country for over 25 years? Those are the questions we need to ask ourselves. These are questions that I believe do contribute to the situation that we are in currently. The sooner we address them, the better for us as a country. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, much as we look upon the security forces to do their bit, as a community in Kenya we need to engage and address issues that can be solved by the communities. Insecurity and radicalisation of youth comes from within the country. For that reason, communities living within the country should be engaged accordingly, especially in the coastal region of Kenya and the northern part where I come from.
The Vikao vya Wazee or the Council of Elders needs to be empowered, so that these issues can be brought out. There are people who get scared of bringing issues to the police for fear of victimisation or the fear that the radicals might get to them. If they can bring the same issues to the Council of Elders, then the Council of Elders can advise security accordingly, so that they can take the appropriate action to counter or preempt any potential threats. Disorders such as the very unfortunate stripping of women and The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
rampant rapes, especially of minors, again, are social problems that we need to address as a nation. The National Cohesion and Integration Commission also needs to play a big role in ensuring that communities living in Kenya are sensitised on the need to co-exist in peace and not to allow terrorists to take advantage of this.
As I end, there is a lot of corruption in the recruitment of our forces, particularly in the recent recruitment of the KDF. I want to point out a very surprising incident. In my constituency at the Balambala Town Centre, where the recruitment was happening, two strangers showed up during the exercise. Chiefs and the elders did not know where they came from. The two people were recruited and they disappeared the moment the recruiting team left. Who have we recruited into our KDF from Balambala? Is this the situation everywhere else in Kenya? If it is, we really have real issues and corruption is going to be the cause of a lot of problems in this country.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Maj-Gen. Joseph Nkaissery.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I also want to contribute to this very important Report. It is about eight months since this Report was tabled in the House. The President then wanted the support of this House to address the issue of national security. He highlighted the challenges that were facing this country then. Today, this Report has been overtaken by events. Several criminal activities have taken place. You will realise that this Report was submitted after the Westgate attack had taken place. Today, there are many criminal activities and the challenge of terrorism is there. The President wanted this House to look at this critical issue that was facing this nation at that particular time. We should not, as a House, continue to be trivial in addressing issues which are unnecessary; issues like what the Leader of Majority Party has said that the security organs in this country do not need to be modernised. How can you combat and confront the security challenges if your security organs are not properly manned and equipped? When you talk of welfare, it is nothing when it comes to the defence of this country. You can give us houses, but houses will not defend Kenya.
The other great challenge that the President highlighted is cattle rustling. We have an issue of Kapedo, which happened the other day. The President wanted the leadership from the cattle rustling prone areas to lead from the front. They cannot be Members leading cattle rustlers. They should be addressing these issues. These are the messages the President wanted us to discuss.
Radicalisation is a big issue and it is still taking place. How can we tackle it? We need to look for solutions in this House. We do not need to just talk endlessly. We need to say that the Government needs to do this and that. We need to recommend actions to be taken in these areas. The other issue is drought, which is a threat. This is food security issue. What is the Government doing? Many people are suffering. The President mentioned food security in his Report and nobody is touching on it. The Leader of Majority Party, the Chief Whip and even the Leader of Minority Party are not talking about it. These are people who are supposed to tell Kenyans that the Executive has brought these challenges to this House. This House needs to look into this and see how much money it can allocate for the various items. This is the real objective of this House. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
The other issue is crime. We now have violent crime. Our women are being raped and stripped in the streets. These rapists should be castrated and then taken to jail for life. This House needs to make laws to curb this menace. When we talk in this House without suggesting solutions, we are not helping this country. In terms of small arms, we should pass a law to provide that if one is not a licensed gun holder, then one should be jailed for holding a gun. What is the purpose of one having a gun if it is not for crime? I commend the President. He brought a good Report. It has been overtaken by time, but it is good for this House to make recommendations on the challenges that are facing us.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Thank you, very well spoken. The Chairman of the Committee, hon. Ndung’u Gethenji, Member for Tetu.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me the chance to contribute to this Motion. As my colleagues have said before, a number of social challenges are facing this country which are manifesting in insecurity and the security posture for this country. This country has been embarking on a road of liberty; creating a liberal environment, oblivious of our culture, social framework and geographical positioning. We are trying to position ourselves almost as a western country. In fact, I am reminded of a quote by one American politician who said that when the pursuit of liberty destroys order, the pursuit of order will destroy liberty. As we try to become more liberal in our framework and thinking, we forget the things that create a social order and framework for our people. And now in a bid to claw back the losses that we have suffered in social order, we will certainly have to claw back the liberties that we have afforded our societies.
We took a big rush in the promulgation of the Constitution and all the recommendations that were contained therein, oblivious of the constitutional booby traps that we are now experiencing exploding on our face in terms of national security. To have a parallel structure of Administration Police and the National Police Service with separate commands is a catastrophe. The dissolution of the Provincial Administration, which was creating a secure framework within the country right down to the grassroots was a big mistake and must be reclaimed. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, if we look at all the activities that have been happening in terms of insecurity in this country, especially the last major events which KDF has been called upon to intervene; three of them are related to terrorism. For a period of 13 months that the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) have been requested to intervene in security operations within the country; it is indicated that there has been a systematic failure of police to deal with internal security matters. This means that legislators in this House must interrogate the root cause or the failures of our security organs. This will enable us create a secure environment for the people of this country.It is only in this House that, that can be done. We must dissect the Constitution and all the Acts which relate to security apparatus in this country. We need to give security back to the people of this country. I know the Opposition wants to talk about liberty. However, we cannot have liberty and social freedoms that allow people to take pictures of our dead teachers. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Order, Hon. Members! Hon. Member for Ugunja Constituency, what is out of order? Please ensure that it is, indeed, a point of order.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, you will add me time, if he is wasting my time.
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I just want to seek your indulgence. Is it in order for the hon. Member to suggest that we need to go back or suspend the liberty of Kenyans in pursuit of security, when we know for sure that this liberty is protected by the Constitution? The insecurity in this country is because of failure by Jubilee Government to provide security. Can we justify the failure of the Government to provide security by suspending the liberties of the people?
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Order, hon. Opiyo! That is not a point of order. It is an observation. You will have time to contribute on the same. Hon. Members, we are noting the Annual Report to Parliament on the state of the national security. Hon. Gethenji, Carry on. Hon. Opiyo will also have time to contribute on the same.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. We need to also ask hard questions concerning the most recent attack in Mandera. Why was the bus travelling at 3.00 a.m. without a police escort? Why did the driver opt for a route that typically had not been used? These are the questions we need to answer. We need to also congratulate KDF for the counter attack on the people who perpetrated this heinous crime on Kenyans. They were a series of four attacks in Somalia. A total of 119 Al- Shabaab attackers were killed with eight technical---
So, if the public reacts in that manner, then it is very unfortunate because it shows the level of understanding on certain matters. However, we must encourage continuous invasion into Somalia. In the Westgate Report, for example, recommendation number one was that we must declare war on Al-Shabaab wherever they are. If that recommendation had passed, we would have sourced KDF. They would have gone to Somalia and dealt with these Al-Shabaab elements who have encroached into Kenya and caused mayhem and insecurity. As it stands now, KDF are just participating in AMISOM mission. It is high time Parliament and the Legislature gave teeth, equipment and resources to KDF unilaterally and outside AMISOM mission. This will enable them to attack Al-Shabaab anywhere near our borders, inside Somalia and in all their strongholds that we know they are still maintaining. However, KDF should ensure there are no attackers and terrorists in Kenya because they have destroyed operational commands in Somalia. I also wish to give support to the police because they have a very hard job to do. This is not about ole Lenku and Inspector-General, Kimaiyo. The solution to our problems will not be about rooting out ole Lenku and Inspector-General, Kimaiyo; the solution will be a total re-engineering of the police structure, security framework, and our legislative processes that govern security in this country. Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Very well spoken. Next is hon. Mwashetani, the hon. Member for Lungalunga Constituency. Hon. Members, we are noting. Insecurity is everywhere. Please, wait for your turn to contribute.Unless something is totally out of order, let us debate this Motion within our orders and procedures. Please, put your card in the intervention button. Hon. Mwashetani, the Floor is yours.
Asante sana kwa kunipatia fursa hii ili nichangie Ripoti hii kuhusu usalama. Usalama umekuwa tatizo ambalo limekuwa changamoto sana katika Serikali hii ya Kenya. Sisi viongozi wageni, tangu tuchaguliwe katika mamlaka haya, tumekuwa na changamoto nyingi sana.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Order, hon. Members! To ensure that the Chair concentrates, if there are any consultations, please consult with the clerks.
Asante sana, Naibu Spika wa Muda. Usalama umekuwa suala gumu. Ni suala ambalo bila vitengo vya usalama kukaa sawasawa na kubuni mipango mipya ambayo itaweza kuboresha usalama, tutakuwa kati ya wale wanaopata hasara. Ninapozungumuzia haya, ninatoa mfano wa kitegauchumi kule kwetu Kwale. Pwani, kwa jumla,tumekuwa katika hali yakutoelewa kwa nini uchumi wetu unashuka. Ukiangalia sekta ya utalii, kati ya wale wanaofaidika ni sisi watu wa Pwani. Sasa hivi, asilimia themanini ya wale ambao walikuwa wakifanya kazi kwenye hoteli hawana kazi. Kina mama ambao walikuwa wakishona viondo na vijana ambao walikuwa na lugha tofauti ya kujieleza kupitia kwa watalii, wote wamekosa kazi. Kwa hivyo, ni suala ambalo mpaka sasa, hatujui ni mipango gani Serikali imetuwekea ili kuhakikisha utalii umerudi jinsi ulivyokuwa zamani. Pia, ukiangalia tatizo lililopo ni rasilimali zetu za Pwani kushuka bei. Ukiangalia nyumba ambazo watu walikuwa wakilipa Kshs.30,000 ili waishi, kwa sasa hata ukiuliza Kshs.5,000 huwezi kupata. Usalama umechangia watu wa Pwani kutofaidika kiuchumi. Vile vile, ukiangalia usalama, sasa hivi nchi nzima kuna matatizo ya usalama. Kwa mfano, juzi watu waliuliwa kule Mandera. Pwani kumekuwa na suala hili kwa muda mrefu. Viongozi wetu wakidini wamekuwa wakiuawa mmoja mmoja bila sisi viongozi kuletewa ripoti ya sababu za viongozi hao kuuliwa. Hadi leo, hatujapata sababu wala wale waliohusika katika mipango hiyo. Hatujaambiwa kuwa wameshikwa. Ni suala ambalo limesababishwa na mambo mengi. Mojawapo ya sababu zilozofanya usalama kudorora ni ajira, kama vile alivyotanguliza Rais katika Ripoti yake. Suala la ajira ni suala ambalo lina changamoto kubwa. Sisi wananchi wa Pwani tumelia na kuzungumza kuhusu sehemu ambayo ilikuwa ikiwasaidia vijana wetu kupata ajira. Hizi ni sehemu kama Halmashuhuri ya Bandari ya Mombasa (KPA). Shirika hili ni la awali kabla uongozi huu haujaingia. Ni shirika ambalo lilikuwa linapeana kazi kwa vijana. Kazi hizo zilikuwa zikiwasaidia kuwapa mapato na chakula katika maisha yao. Lakini kwa sasa hivi, miaka karibu saba imepita hakujaajiriwa vijana. Hili ni suala ambalo tumelizungumzia sana lakini mpaka leo hatujapata suluhusho. Ndiposa sisi viongozi wa Pwani tunasema hizi Halmashauri zirejeshwe kwa kaunti ili tuziendeshe wenyewe na zitufaidishe kama wakazi wa sehemu hizo. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Katika sehemu ya mpaka, niko na changamoto kubwa sana na hii changamoto nimeizungumzia muda mrefu. Sisi hatuna vifaa kama sehemu ya Lungalunga. Washikadao wa usalama na wao vile vile wanashindwa kuwafikia wakubwa wao. Hatuna magari hadi wakati huu na ukiangalia maafisa wetu, ni wachache sana. Wale wanaofanya nchi yetu kutopata usalama wanapitia kwa ile mipaka na sisi kama viongozi tumelizungumzia jambo hili sana. Ni jambo la kuhuzunisha kwamba hadi wakati huu hatujaona hatua ikichukuliwa kuhusu jambo hili.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Your time is over. Please, let us plan for our things but very well spoken. Next on my request list, we have 35 requests. Hon. Member John waiganjo, proceed.
Thank you, for also giving me this opportunity. I think there are times when we have to confront the truth. The truth about our country is that it is bleeding. It is actually at war with itself and with terrorists. I do not see the point why our leaders should hold Press conferences and give us that hard talk; “We shall chase them. No stone should be left unturned. We will make sure we vanquish them.” I think that now is water under the bridge. We must realise that we are at the mercy of terrorists. It is good to be candid. Unless and until we do something very radical, we must change the way we think. We must handle security in quite a different way. I think we do have a way of doing that. First of all, we have enough legislation; we do not need new legislation. We need to enforce the legislation that we have. We have framers of the Constitution who gave us Article 238 on principles of national security. We also have Article 238(2)(a) which talks of national security as a subject to the authority of the Constitution and Parliament. Therefore, in this Parliament we are Government. I do not understand Members who say that the Government has failed or Jubilee has failed. Which Government has failed? This is one arm of Government. Parliament is an arm of Government just as the Executive and the Judiciary. If there are any failures in Government, count yourself a failure. Therefore, we have failed as a Parliament and as leaders of this country and that is why you cannot understand why a Member of the Senate would go demonstrating on the streets. He risks being lynched because what are you telling Kenyans? That you are unable to handle security? You are joining them out there to mourn together? There are better ways of doing things. Let us be more patriotic. Let us know it is our country that is going to burn. When it comes to war; when it comes to a common enemy, there is no CORD and there cannot be any Jubilee. We are all on as one Government. We are, therefore, looking at Article 240 in debating this Report of the President. I do not agree with the people who say that this Report has been overtaken by events or is stale. It is not. If you ask me, it is coming at the right time because what we should be looking at is the state of the security in the nation as at 27th of March and as it is today. So, Article 240 of the Constitution commands or mandates the National Security Council (NSC) to access and appraise the objectives, commitments and risks to the Republic, in respect of the actual and potential national security capabilities. That is where we are now. The National Security Council should be looking inwards to see whether our national security capabilities are still in place or whether we need certain appraisals. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
(Hon.(Ms.) Mbalu): Order, hon. Members!
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon Waiganjo please, when the hon. Speaker is speaking, you have to pause. Yes, we have to do consultations in this House but can we lower our voices. We need to listen to the good contribution that the hon. Member is making, just as much as you also want your contributions to be listened to. Thank you.
I hope I am going to recover my minute in due course. I was saying that Article 240 (7) requires the Chairman of the NSC, who is the President, to inform Parliament about the state of security in Kenya. Why should he involve Parliament? He should involve Parliament because Article 238 says that national security is subject to the authority of the Constitution and Parliament. Therefore, Parliament should be informed so that if there are any legislative proposals that we need to make in order to curb insecurity, we shall be aware of them. However, looking at the President’s Report we must make comparisons of what he said then and what we have today. I am particularly looking at one of the issues he raised in the speech. He stated that the Government has launched a counter radicalization strategy in collaboration with local leaders, faith and community based organisations to rehabilitate the affected youth. All what we have heard recently is that there is a heightened radicalization of our youth. There are people who are using our places of worship as havens of crime. When police, in their bid to root out criminals, are condemned by leaders in this House, what are we up to? Why would leaders profile Muslims or Christians? Why can we not have a level of patriotism? Why can we not wait for investigations to be done and then we assist the President and the security apparatus to curb insecurity? We cannot talk politics on one hand and then on the other hand we want to be seen by Kenyans to be working towards eradication of insecurity. I was looking at the legislative proposals that are pending in this Parliament that we are yet to pass. Here, we are talking about a Parliament that should check the Executive, but what do we see? We have not passed any single legislation.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Thank you for the contribution. Hon. Makali Mulu, Member for Kitui Central.
Thank you, for giving me this chance to add my voice to this Motion. Even though the Report has come late in terms of dates, in terms of timeliness I think it has come at the right time. This country is facing a lot of insecurity. Before I make my contribution I want to send my condolences to the families that lost their loved ones in Mandera and other areas that have experienced insecurity. Reading through the Report of the President and listening to the hon. Members debate it, it is very clear in my mind that we know where the problem is. In terms of problem analysis, I think as a House we are up to speed and we know where the problem is. Kenyans have heard these stories and very briefly the problems have actually been mentioned by a number of Members; the issue of radicalization, terrorism, cattle rustling, The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
corruption, incomplete police reforms and all these many good terminologies. However, a time has come when as a country we need to move from problems to solutions. As a Kenyan, I think what Kenyans would want to see and hear is that wherever they are in this country, they are secure. Kenyans want to feel secure, whether in their houses, streets, buses, churches and everywhere else. Unfortunately, if you talk to any Kenyan today, they are actually very insecure. If you look at what is happening, for instance the issue of stripping women in this country, this is the highest degree of moral decay. As a human being, I do not imagine that you would want to see your mother, daughter or wife naked and vice versa. I am really surprised when I see young men enjoying seeing our ladies naked. I think really as a country we need to pray a lot. We also need to educate our people in terms of moral issues because we are getting it wrong. As I conclude, I want to say that I am a member of the Budget and Appropriations Committee. I want to inform hon. Members that in terms of Budget allocation to the security docket in this country, there is no other time in this country when security sector has received as much resources as this year. With all these resources, what we are saying is that they should sort out all these problems.
Nobody should say there is no money because it has been allocated. I can say that as a Member of the Budget and Appropriations Committee. The other thing is that my friend, hon. waiganjo is saying that we are the Government. The truth of the matter is that, the overall responsibility of Parliament is legislation and oversight. When we are allocating money as a Budget Committee, we allocate resources to the Executive to execute their programmes and policies. Parliament does not have money to execute police reforms and buy equipment for the Kenya Defence Forces. So, it is the work of the Government since they have been allocated money by this House to make sure that Kenyans are secure wherever they are.
If they are not able to do that, courtesy demands that you pave way and allow others to take over. I want to speak as a Kenyan. I get very concerned when I see Kenyans dying just the way we lost the other people in Mandera. We lost 22 teachers who had just completed college. After two years, when they were looking forward to start working they were told to lie down on their tummy and somebody shot them dead. That was a very bad experience. The Government should wake up and provide security to Kenyans. Thank you very much.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Thank you, member for Nakuru Town East.
Thank you hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity to contribute. I am a Member of both the Committee on Implementation and the Administration and National Security Committee. When there is an insecurity issue, somebody moves a Motion to adjourn and then we talk about that.
I agree with hon. Sakaja that this Parliament is not a place to lament but a place where we should be giving solutions. I totally agree because if you look at the Report that we have before us, has the President identified the issues that affect security? Yes, he has. Has he given solutions towards how we can do that? Yes, he has.
I remember the Deputy President once said that the Jubilee Government is a Government that will be giving solutions, not asking questions. I totally agree with him The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
that we should be giving solutions to the issues that have befallen this country like security. Security is the backbone of everything and without it, this country cannot move forward. The Report indicates, as hon. Duale has indicated, that security issues have gone down by 8 per cent. I totally agree with him.
Yesterday, today and almost everywhere, suggestions have been made to the Chair of the Administration and National Security Committee, hon. Kamama and his entire team; that they should vacate office and allow another team to come into the office. Do I agree with that? Yes, and I think it is good because the heads have started rolling. When hon. Kamama was threatened with impeachment yesterday, at least he had an opportunity of calling some Members of the Administration and National Security Committee. It is time for us to start thinking where we have gone wrong and look for solutions so as to bring back security.
The Administration and National Security Committee forwarded a budget of Kshs.87 billion to the Budget and Appropriations Committee, but there was a reduction of Kshs.20 billion. So, they got a budget of Kshs. 67 billion. Parliament plays a big role in terms of bringing down the levels of insecurity in this country.
I had been sent by the same committee to an Intergovernmental Authority on Development (IGAD) meeting in Uganda and the agenda of the meeting was on community policing. The facilitator was an expert from United Kingdom and he told us that three-quarters of their policemen walk around without weapons; no guns at all. However, they are able to enforce law. What do they do? They interact with the community every now and then without weapons. How does the community view them? It views them as friends and people whom they can share some information with. What we want to do, as a Committee of Administration and National Security, and hon. Kamama has said it, is to initiate the legislative process of trying to address some of the issues that are hindering implementation of the security issues.
Recently, when we were passing the Police Service Act, we suggested as a Committee to give the Inspector-General an opportunity to be the accounting officer. What did the Parliament do? They refused. Under sub-section 54 of the same Act, we said a policeman is supposed to protect life and property. Any person trying to threaten life and property, can the policeman take forceful action? This Parliament said no. So, what is that policeman supposed to do? It was very unfortunate that hon. Arati went to the Press and said that they were not going to merge. He has all the rights to do that. This is happening because there is no legislation. However, if we come here in Parliament and say there is only one Police Service, hon. Arati will not have a problem now to come and continue saying that we cannot merge---
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Your time is over, hon. Gikaria. Hon. Mwaura, put your card well. Put it on the intervention.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Listening to all of us contributing to this Motion and we are supposed to take note of the President’s Report, I am concerned that we are turning out to be very good experts in talking about matters of security. Indeed, we just had the debate, the other day, about the stripping of women. Every other week we are becoming chatterbox. We are just talking about security with no solution. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
I do not know whether that is the same frustration that made our good Senator hon. Khalwale to also go and demonstrate with the public. Kenyans are now becoming desperate. We, as a House, should ask ourselves whether we have powers collectively to do something about the security of this country. What we are getting from the Government, I am not sure sometimes whether the right to information is propaganda. If you tell us that you have killed 100 people in Somalia, does it compensate for the 28 people who were killed in Mandera? Some of these issues are serious. When we talk about removing the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and Coordination of National Government, hon. ole Lenku and the Inspector-General, Mr. Kimaiyo--- Indeed, if you do not seem to take any action, then you are abetting terrorism and insecurity.
There is something that would happen, even if you do not have a solution to the problem. Something should be done to those who are most responsible so that there is some sense of seriousness and responsibility. That is very critical.
So, to come to tell us that it is not hon. ole Lenku and Mr. Kimaiyo, what are you telling us? Who are we supposed to turn to?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, there is also the issue of policemen being taken to court when they are doing their good job. We have a very good case of Mr. Katitu in Githurai. He was killing people who were taking property from Kenyans, yet he is now in remand at Industrial Area because of doing his job very well. Who took him there? The Independent Policing Oversight Authority (IPOA) is the complainant and investigator. Where are we going?
The police who are supposed to be helping Kenyans are not motivated. It is time we said that it did not work out in the last regime and also some things are not working. We cannot create numerous administrative structures just because we want to create some form of accountability and yet we create bureaucracy that is ineffective. I am very saddened when I look at the case of the woman at the Githurai Bus Stop. It is totally unacceptable. This idea of saying that women are being undressed or stripped because of dressing in a certain way is actually a diversionary tactic. We can have that debate on indecent or decent dressing elsewhere. Nobody has the right to strip a woman. If you find someone is naked, please, cover them up, if at all it is against your religion. The fact that there is nobody who has been arrested also means that the police are compliant. There is complicity in this. We cannot keep on talking about this. Our police have no capacity to counter the Al Shabaab . That is the truth. They have no equipment. The intelligence of this country seems not to be properly coordinated and yet day in day out, we, as Members of Parliament, come here to lament and we go home and lament. What are we doing? Collectively, we must tell the Executive, because we are the other arm of Government, that we are tired. Enough is enough. Ole Lenku, ole wetu, ole wao . I support.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for this opportunity. As many Members have said, it is absurd and sad that this honourable The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
House, which is supposed to be a House for making legislation, ends up being a House for complaining. Almost every day, we are having Motions for Adjournment.
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, please, protect me from hon. Shabbir. This is my time and he will get his time to contribute.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Shakeel, you are going to speak, but it is his turn. You are on my list. Actually, you are next. You caught the Speaker’s eye.
Thank you for protecting me, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. This House should not be reduced to a House of making noise and having Adjournment Motions everyday to discuss insecurity. It is high time we looked at the problem. Where is the problem? When you look at our security structures, we have the National Intelligence Service (NIS), the Administration Police, the Regular Police and other arms. It seems as if there is little communication amongst these different arms. As a House, we need to come up with legislation to cure this. It is also sad that in this House, many times, even when it comes to very serious matters of security, things are politicised. The Constitution has created structures within it and that is why one arm of Government can take the other arm to court and the court allows this to happen. Today, we have the recently recruited police recruits, but instead of them being in training, they are still waiting. We are saying that we do not have adequate human resource as far as these agencies are concerned. Then we continue as if it is business as usual. If the National Intelligence Service has gathered intelligence, whether it has leaked or has been communicated, it should be investigated. We are mourning what happened in Mandera, but it is said that information on the same had been given. When information is given, why is it not acted on? Why can this House not also give mandate to the agencies to gather information? They should be given the power and the mandate to execute so that we do not have cases of people saying that at the Westgate or even in Mandera, they knew what was to happen. After it has happened and people have died, that is when we run helter-skelter. It is high time the agencies that have the capacity are also given the mandate to go ahead and stop the heinous acts rather than allow the criminals to commit these crimes and thereafter, we complain. The other issue is about corruption. It is high time we made corruption very expensive in this country. Some of those security agents are compromised. Through this compromise, we end up having terrorists and other criminals who then arm our Kenyans. Without security, nothing can move on in a country. Today, the tourism industry in our country is on its knees. Many investors are worried because of what is happening at the Coast and other places in our country. As the President has indicated, the problem is very clear and the suggestions are there. Why are these suggestions not being implemented? If we know the problem and we also know the solution and what has to be done, then this must be done, so that Kenyans can be secure. I am also very sad because of cattle rustling. Cattle rustling should be considered as robbery with violence. One of my constituents was killed while protecting his property and will be buried on Saturday. It is business as usual day in, day out. This should not be The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
a House of complaining, but a House that comes up with laws to bring co-ordination and sanity into our country. Action should be taken against the perpetrators. The police should also be protected. At the moment, they fear to take action against criminals.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Shakeel, the Member for Kisumu East, you are next. When the machines are not working, we watch.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, this is the second time those people up there have switched me off when it is my turn to speak. I hope they have learnt a lesson. Thank you very much for remembering me. There is a systematic failure in our security system. Systematic failure does not come immediately. It has taken time. Over time, the systematic failure has developed. Kenya is under attack.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Order, Members! I want to discourage Members from coming to me unless it is a critical issue. We have the clerks-at-the-Table for that, so that we can listen. When you are raising points of order, the Speaker has to listen to your debate. I am discouraging that.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I hope I get more time for that. When you are in your house with your family and an attacker comes in, before you start looking at what the askari is doing, you have to protect yourself. The fabric of the society, as we all have said, has fallen. The values of Kenya have fallen. There was a time Kenya had status in this continent and also in the world. There was discipline. What we have heard about the stripping of women is lack of morality, a breakdown in the family unit and a breakdown in spirituality. There was a devil worship report that has disappeared, never to be seen. It appears that we are losing our spirituality in this country. Two Administration Police officers were found stripping some ladies and they were given a bail of Kshs.50,000, yet a poor man who steals maize is put into prison for 12 months. That is what we call lack of discipline. Those Administration Police officers have been caught and they must be disciplined irrespective of the court process. The Administration Police officers and the police must know that there are levels of discipline. They should have been suspended with immediate effect as they await the court process. As hon. Mwaura said, sometimes we have to celebrate people like Mr. Gatitu and the late Mr. Shaw because they were doing the right thing but they got imprisoned. Is there something wrong with our system? Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, there is another issue that we have; the Provincial Administration and the police who do not see eye to eye. As a matter of fact, they are shooting and killing each other. There are robberies, one committed by the police, the other committed by the Administration Police (AP) officers. They are not getting along at all. There are 35,000 police officers in this country. Majority of them are taking care of banks. In Kisumu only, we have about 35 banks and each bank has two police officers. That is between 70 and 100 police officers in charge of security of some banks. The rich in this country get away with everything. They have trained officers who are armed with AK47 guns. They are not askaris . Then they are given about Ksh500 for food. I think the whole structure needs to change. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
There was a case of two soldiers who were given life imprisonment for desertion of duty. These things should not be happening. When we were talking about Westgate, we saw army officers stealing. Why have they not been disciplined? They should have been punished.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, before the red light goes on I demand that the devil worship report be brought to the House.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Thank you hon. S.S. Ahmed, hon. Member for Kisumu East.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity also to contribute to this very important Report. History repeats itself. In the last Parliament when the draft Constitution was brought to the House, one of the issues being raised today, I remember Senator Musila moved an amendment on these security related articles in the Constitution.
I seconded and we were short of seven hon. Members to reach the two-thirds constitutional threshold. We did not reflect at that time because of the politics of the day, I am sure my brother, hon. Kiuna, who is here and was there that time, is regretting today because we accepted a document that had 10 per cent lethal provisions. Ninety per cent of the current Constitution is an excellent document, but we have 10 per cent lethal provisions which have never worked anywhere; which cannot work here in Kenya and which eventually, if we do not sort out today and put aside the politics of the day, is going to make this country a failed state. We cannot afford to see our security institutions with jurisdictional conflict.
One of the hon. Members who earlier on contributed said, we need to give them mandate. It is not that they do not have mandate. We have the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) Act; we have the National Intelligence Service (NIS) Act and the Police Service Act. These Acts are there but there are deficiencies in the Constitution. These deficiencies, whether it is through misinterpretation of the law, a lacuna in the law or misunderstanding, must be addressed. In the last week alone, we have lost 80 Kenyans. Two people were killed in Wajir as a result of a bomb blast; 23 people were killed in Kapedo; 28 people were massacred in Mandera; 16 people were killed in Isiolo and 10 people were killed in Marsabit. Those are 80 Kenyans within a span of eight days. Now you can categorize this war into two groups. These are the ones that at least we can talk of. There are many others that have been killed. We have war with terrorists. We also have an internal war because the war at Kapedo, Isiolo and Marsabit is not a terrorist attack. You can call it cattle rustling or you can call it anything, but we need to call a spade a spade. For how long are we going to entertain this? Who is this investor who will come to Kenya, a country where every day when you open any of the newspapers, the first thing that you read is a scary story? Let us be very pragmatic. The number one investment we ought to make as a country is security investment and everything else comes later.
I want to urge and appeal to His Excellency the President, in democracies, if you have failed to discharge your functions, you do not wait for somebody to ask you to The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
resign. But in the Kenyan context right now, we are dealing with symptoms. I think in my opinion, it is unfair to ask Mr. ole Lenku and Mr. Kimaiyo to resign. The problem is not Mr. Kimaiyo or Mr. ole Lenku; the problem is systemic institutional failure. Let us not deal with the symptoms. Let us go for the causes. The causes are that institutions are not working. Mr. Kimaiyo is not the commander of police in Wajir; he is not the commander of police in Mandera. Let us address the institutional failures. The institutional failures are there. We have seen them over the years. We have failed to address them simply because when somebody is touched, you say they are from your community. Even before the judgment is out, you want to vindicate your tribesmen. This is not the way to run a country. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, in our wisdom, we have said we need to retain the Provincial Administration. Where is the Provincial Administration working? This Government of Jubilee has two options; either to devolve security or allow the Provincial Administration to function. They are nowhere now; they are floating. I want to plead for one more minute.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): You have only one minute.
We have said, let us not devolve security but inadvertently we have devolved security. The chiefs are not working because there is no security. The County Commissioners are not working. There are no District Officers in the Republic of Kenya. The County Commissioners have been reduced to carpet beggars of the governors. It cannot work. I want to ask: Can we have a supplementary order to support the Provincial Administration so that they can work because that is where our security issue should be addressed?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, the issue of just dealing with symptoms can no longer sustain the security of the Republic of Kenya. Where I come from, we have one of the longest routes of human traffickers. It is documented. Every day we report hundreds of human beings being trafficked through one of the routes between my constituency, Wajir North, Moyale, Marsabit, Moyale and Isiolo, all the way here. It is known to the security apparatus and we have raised this issue. We have asked them to erect a police post, but they have failed. Every day, there are hundreds of foreigners who come through that route. Who else do we resort to? Where else do we resort to? I do not want this House to reduce itself to the complaining lot. Our work is to secure and fix the problem this country faces. If we join the ones who are complaining, there will be no difference between the leadership and the people we are supposed to lead. Time has come and I want to tell His Excellency the President that, without properly fixing the terrorists; without properly fixing our internal problems, this sovereign Republic of Kenya is in jeopardy. This is not the Kenya --- (off record)
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Your time is over; you are not on record but very well spoken.
Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to support this Motion on security. Our security in this country is becoming worse by the day. As Members of Parliament we need to think of how we are going to tackle this problem. We are here to help the ordinary people; our electorate. The problem is the structure of security apparatus. The Administration Police centre is The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
not doing well. We have so many centers of power. When you have many centers of power, I do not think we can go anywhere as far as security is concerned. We have the Mr. Kavuludi-led Commission. We have another one called the Independent Policing Oversight Authority (IPOA). We also have the Inspector-General of Police who cannot do anything because the commission will not agree to his way. Where are we heading to? If we have a house and the husband is a boss; the wife is also a boss and the child too is a boss, who is going to help the other? We need to sit down and ask the Executive to set up proper security structures. We are crying about 28 people. Talking about the bus that was attacked by militia, why was it allowed to leave without security in the first place? Why was that driver not arrested to say the reason why he left that place without security escort? Why did the driver decide to pass a different route instead of the one which people know unless there was something he knew? The other police officers who died in Baragoi are our children. So, what have we done on that? We just said we were going to help them. We went there and even sent our army there. We are not doing anything about the guns that were lost. We are here crying, what about the people who are outside there? We want to tell our Government that it is high time we changed the structure of the Police Service. We know that there is the head of the Kenya Police and the head of the Administration Police (AP). If we are not going to have the Administration Police, we are not going to go anywhere. The Administration Police officers are near the people. We know police officers do not have enough equipment because the money we are giving them is peanuts. The houses they live in are pathetic and you are telling them to come to protect you when you are living in Karen! How do you think those people feel? We need their welfare to be looked at so that they also feel part and parcel of the Government. However, we need to have a proper structure. I do not know what the National Police Service Commission is doing. How can you keep a goat and a lion together? The lion knows how to hunt but the goat does not know. So, Kavuludi does not know how to manage the disciplined police service. He has never gone to the ground.
Why are we doing this? Let us not ruin our people. If the Inspector-General of the Police is going to be told by somebody who does not know the discipline that: “You cannot touch this person unless I approve” and yet he does not know about the disciplined force, we are ruining our people. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, we need to have a proper structure of the police force. As Members of Parliament, it is our duty not to cry. We should sit down here and agree as one family on how we are going to help our people. Thank you very much.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): That is the voice of hon. Mary Wambui from Othaya. The hon. Member for Kitutu Chache North, proceed.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me a chance to contribute to this Motion. This country is speeding towards a failed state. We have got these problems, as Mheshimiwa Keynan said. We have got terrorism and The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
internal conflicts. Both problems are killing our people. We have got all these problems because our Government has not put its foot down. We want His Excellency the President and his Deputy to put down their feet and become benevolent dictators. That is how Malaysia, Singapore, South Korea, Brazil and Turkey have been able to develop. You put down your foot. You have been elected by the people of Kenya to do what is good for the people of Kenya. Security is the foundation of any development. If there is no security, there can be no development.
On a point of order, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): There is nothing out of order, hon. Members. Carry on.
If there is no security, we cannot develop.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): There is a point of information. Hon. Angwenyi, do you want to be informed?
I do not need the information.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): He does not need to be informed. Thank you.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, our system has got problems. You have an Inspector-General of Police who cannot transfer one of his officers before he gets Kavuludi’s approval. You have an Inspector-General of Police who cannot recruit without the approval of the Independent Policing Oversight Authority (IPOA). Remember we recruited people some few months ago. To date, there are no police officers who have been recruited because IPOA went to court. They are using public funds to take another Government agency to court. We have laws which allow terrorists to be given bail and join the community to continue their terrorism. The police force is not well organised. If you go to your sub-county or district, there is a security committee which is supposed to be chaired by the Deputy County Commissioner, However, that Deputy County Commissioner has no authority to command, direct or consult the police officers. A Deputy County Commissioner cannot direct an Administration Police officer or a Kenya Police officer to respond to some situation. Our chiefs are earning for doing no work. We need to go back and support the equivalent of the Provincial Administration so that we can have some system up to the village level. If we do not do that, this country is going to go to the dogs.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Order Members! Order, hon. Sumra! Please, let us have order. You will have your time to speak. Let hon. Angwenyi contribute.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Angwenyi, you are making your contribution. Please let us hear your contribution.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, if you go to any police station, police officers do not have vehicles or fuel. They earn very low salaries. They have no accommodation. We have cattle rustling. We should go to our communities---
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Order Members! Let me get the intervention by hon. David Wafula. What is out of order? Please, it has to be something out of order, otherwise, I will rule you out of order.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I have the microphone.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, let me finish. We must adequately fund the police force.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Angwenyi, your time is over. Hon. Wafula, was something out of order?
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, are you satisfied with the way hon. Angwenyi has behaved by threatening hon. Sumra? We do not know what he might do tomorrow.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Order, hon. Angwenyi! Hon. Members representing constituencies, it is required that we do not behave like we are in our local joints. We represent constituencies. This is a House of rules. This is the august House of dignity and we need soberness. So, when you attack hon. Members in the House, we are going to rule you out of order. Hon. Sumra, you initiated it. Hon. Members, let us have soberness in the House.
There is nothing out of order. Hon. Opiyo, when the Speaker is speaking, you freeze, unless you do not know your Standing Orders very well. We can send you out to go and learn them. Hon. Opiyo, you are out of order. Let us have respect for hon. Members. Please, let us not attack each other here in this House. Let us calm down and wait for our time to contribute.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Let us have some order---
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Sumra, we respect you in this House. I know you represent a constituency. Let us have order. Your time will come. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I have heard most of my colleagues talking about us offering solutions. I would like to offer three solutions to the rampant insecurity situation in this country. The first solution is what we understand very well. Any organization stands, first and foremost, from the leadership of that organization. Leadership will define where that organization is going.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Bett, there is nothing out of order. I am going to be strict. You quote what is out of order from your Standing Orders. It is a requirement. The hon. Member is contributing and your turn is coming.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I was talking about leadership. We have seen in the past what leadership can do in every sector. I can just quote two or three areas where leadership has sorted out and has straightened certain things. The late hon. Michuki, let his soul rest in peace, brought sanity in virtually everywhere he worked. Let me talk about Mr. Karangi, although I do not like him, but you can see the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF), with Mr. Karangi at the helm, has brought a lot of discipline.
On a point of information.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon (Dr.) Kibunguchy, there is a point of information from hon. Bett. Do you need the information?
I do not want it; I have not even finished my---
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Bett, your information is not needed.
I do not want any information because I have only started. I am trying to develop a thesis.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Hon. Bett, your information is not needed. Let us give hon. (Dr.) Kibunguchy time to contribute. When your time comes, you can make your contributions to the extreme you want and of course with control.
I think everybody is wasting my time. Therefore, we can all say everything about Mr. ole Lenku and Mr. Kimaiyo but in my view, they have failed to offer leadership in the positions they have. Therefore, I stand on the side of the people who have said the President was given the mandate and the President has the powers. I think time has come for Mr. Kimaiyo and Mr. ole Lenku to vacate their positions and let us give it to somebody else who can move this country and bring security and sanity to this country. When we took our soldiers to Somalia, there was a particular purpose why we took them there, but we have seen the repercussions of our presence in Somalia. If we The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
cast our eyes back, the great nation of the United States of America (USA) tried it in Somalia and they failed. Time has come where we need to say let us leave Somalia to Somalians. Let us move our boys out of Somalia. If you can ask me, put them on the border of our country and Somalia because the way we are going, it is us who are suffering. We are trying to put a country in some shape in the name of Somalia, but they do not appreciate it. If you come to my place and you are trying to do something in my home and I do not appreciate it, the best thing I will do is move away. So time has come. Let us move our boys and girls out of Somalia and put them on the border and let Somalia take care of its own problems. The third solution I was going to offer is the fact that time has come where we have to rein in on the people who are misusing the social media. The social media is going to put this country in trouble. Everybody is writing everything. I saw even a Member of Parliament doing the same.
Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Your time is over. Hon. Christine Ombaka.
Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity, which I have waited for so long. This country has experienced chronic insecurity and violence that has span for many years. When we first talked about violence or insecurity in this country, we associated it with tribalism.
Please, give me a chance to speak. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, can you keep the House quiet? Tribalism has been associated with insecurity in this country and that has been known for a long time. Today, it is developing a new face. We are going through other forms of insecurity that were never there before. Today, we see gender- based violence that is prominent almost on a daily basis. Nobody is dealing with is, no policeman is in sight to protect the women and arrest the perpetrators. When we talk about women being stripped in the streets, this is a new form of violence. For a long time, there has been sexual abuse going on in terms of rape, but the kind of violence that we see today is a demonstration that this society is really getting itself into a state of lawlessness. If we cannot protect the few women; so far they are about five, if you cannot protect these women, then how can you protect other people? These women have been stripped in public in the eyes of the whole world. When you see the video that I saw this afternoon inside a bus and the people in the bus cannot take action, then something has gone wrong in this nation. Nobody is going to protect you. Even if you talk of the village security people and ten villages protecting each other, what can that do when inside a bus people are watching when a lady is being violated? We have lost our responsibility. We no longer have any values. The whole world is watching and laughing and the country is moving towards a state of hopelessness. The police officers who should protect us cannot do it. We talk of them having no salaries, living in poor conditions, but they are very immoral. One of the four women that were stripped, if I recall yesterday night, one of the perpetrators is an Administration Policeman. A policeman was one of the perpetrators. Police are known to shoot to kill. What sort of culture is this where the police who should protect the society are the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
perpetrators? Who trains policemen in this country? We need to look at how they are trained and the values they have. We need to know whether they are aware that they have a role to play in the protection of human life. They do not seem to know or to care. The attitude of the police is so bad that they do not respect their job. That is why the public has no sympathy for them. I know about 21 police officers who were killed the other day, but a lot of people did not seem to be sympathetic to their death. They also say that police officers mistreat them. When you look at the attitude of the people towards the police, you will see that we have lost the game. It is not too late; we can still salvage this country. We have lost so much in terms of security for every single person. There is no security for a child, an old man, women, men and even animals. We vandalise everything. We have no respect for any human nature. The Government must be held accountable. This is because security is the responsibility of the Government. When I talk about the Government, I know Parliament is part of it but it does not execute its mandate. We come up with policies and there are people who are allocated roles to play in terms of implementing certain things. Where are the police to arrest and take culprits to court to be imprisoned? The laws are there, but there is nobody to follow them. There is no rule of law. We are totally chaotic as a nation and that is why the whole world now begins to think of Kenya as a very unsafe place to be. We have lost tourism because of the image we have and our behaviour.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Your time is over. Hon. Member for Msambweni, let us hear your position.
Asante sana, Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda. Nimesimama ili kuchangia suala la usalama. Mwanzo natuma risala za rambirambi kwa familia zilizoathirika na mambo ya usalama. Ni jukumu letu sisi Wabunge kuangalia mambo muhimu ya usalama na kuyaelekeza kwa wananchi wetu. Kwa hakika, wakati umefika kwa Bunge hili kuacha maslahi ya kisiasa ambayo yametanda na kuangalia maslahi ya nchi hii. Ni jukumu letu sisi viongozi kuhakikisha tumelinda usalama wa nchi hii. Kama tunavyojua, Bunge lina kazi tatu; ya kwanza ni kuwakilisha, ya pili ni kutunga sheria na ya tatu ni kuwa macho ya Serikali. Suala la usalama limetatiza. Kila wiki tunakuja Bungeni humu kuzungumzia suala la usalama. Kuna suala ambalo lazima tujiulize kama viongozi. Ikiwa tuna majukumu matatu ya kushughulikia, ni kitu gani kinatuzuia kutoa suluhisho la nchi hii kuhusu usalama? Serikali ina jukumu la kuhakikisha kwamba waathiriwa wote wana haki ya kulindwa. Kwa mfano, kuna sehemu zilizoathirika kama vile Kapedo, Mpeketoni, Wajir, Moyale, Kwale, Garissa na Mombasa. Wizara inayohusika imechukua hatua gani ya kuketi na viongozi, kutoa mwelekeo na kupata suluhisho kwa waathiriwa wote ambao hawajapata kitu chochote kutoka kwa Serikali kwa miezi sita au saba? Wizara lazima ijue majukumu yake. Ikijua majukumu yake, nina hakika kwamba suala hili la usalama litakuwa si suala la watu kuelekezana vidole. Kama wizara haitafanya majukumu yake, lazima ishutumiwe. Ndio maana tunasema kwamba ole Lenku, Kimaiyo na mwingine yeyote anayehusika na kudorora kwa usalama katika nchi yetu ya Kenya, lazima apumzishwe na tulete njia nyingine ya kuboresha usalama. Kuna mambo ambayo ni lazima tuyaangalie. Hali ya uchumi katika nchi yetu imedorora sana. Nikiwa katika upinzani na wale wenzetu ambao wako katika upande wa The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
walio wengi, tunasema kwamba, ikiwa suluhisho ni majopo haya mawili yaungane ili nchi yetu itapate uokozi, tuko tayari kuungana. Lakini tusichukue suala la makosa ya wale walio kwenye uongozi tukaanza kulaumu upande ambao hauwezi kufanya lolote. Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda, ni jukumu letu, kama viongozi, kuhakikisha tumelinda Wakenya. Tusije hapa kila wiki ikawa tunazungumzia mambo ambayo hayaleti mwelekeo wowote kwa Wakenya. Wakenya wametuchagua. Wakenya wana imani na viongozi na ni lazima tuwatendee kazi Wakenya. Misikiti ambayo imefungwa, nyumba za maombi ni nyumba ambazo ni lazima zipatiwe heshima. Ni nyumba dini zote mbili zinaamini ni nyumba takatifu. Kwa hivyo, tusiingize mambo ambayo hayahusiki kuingizwa katika nyumba zetu za ibada. Ni jukumu letu kama viongozi kusimama kidete kuhakikisha tumelinda nyumba takatifu, nyumba za maombi. Kwa hivyo, ombi langu ni Serikali miliki ama Serikali ya Mhe. Rais Uhuru ihakikishe imeangazia vyema suala la usalama---
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Your time is up! Very well spoken. Let us hear the position of hon. Lentoimaga.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. First of all, I want to say that as for our being in Somalia, we are a community of nations and we have strategic interest in Somalia. So in my view, we must remain in Somalia for us to remain safe in Kenya. Secondly, I am talking from a point of experience. One problem that we have in the security apparatus in this country is at the level of the county. This country is divided into 47 counties and each county has a district or county security committee. During our time, somebody had to be responsible for the welfare and the security of people in a county. This issue of parallel commands must be put to rest. We must have a legislation here to ensure that we have one person; either the County Commissioner or one police commander because that is where the problem is. At the county level, even when hon. Members here go to the county, you will find that you have to go to the Regular Police commander and the Administration Police commander to seek some answers. We need to put that to rest and ensure that one person who has a committee under him can make decisions and give orders. Policemen are command-driven. They are disciplined organizations just like the armed forces. So, they need to be deployed using order and discipline. Sometime back we made an amendment to the National Police Service on Kenya Police Reservists (KPR). They are still not being deployed well, yet we made an amendment here to ensure that they are trained. They should be paid, but nothing has changed since that time. We need to make sure that those people who live in areas that are remote, that are prone to cattle rustling, make us of the local people. They need the Kenya Police Reservists who are used to the terrain; who are hardened like the cattle rustlers to ensure that they work hard and eradicate cattle rustling. We also had the Safaricom surveillance equipment---
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Your time is over. We have machines that control time. Hon. Members, at my discretion, I must appreciate the number of requests from hon. Members who have interest to contribute to this debate.
I want to give three more hon. Members opportunity to contribute. This is a sensitive report and it is at the discretion of the Speaker. I want to give hon. Dido two minutes.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. You are very gracious. I want, on the outset, to send my condolences to the 28 Kenyans who met their death under very unfortunate circumstances.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Order, hon. Members. If you are out of order, do you expect the hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker to give you permission to speak? Hon. Dido, carry on.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. As a Member of Parliament from northern Kenya, Saku Constituency, we pay a lot of tribute to teachers and medics who come from different parts of Kenya to serve our people in northern Kenya because we are hard up with manpower. They provide invaluable service. I want to tell their families that their sons and daughters are heroes because they were serving under very difficult conditions and they were providing invaluable service. The issue of national security is very important. Hon. Members have also made serious comments on what is ailing the country now. I believe in the maxim that where there is no peace and security, there is no development. We cannot cheat ourselves on that. I wish to pay tribute to our soldiers who, at the moment, are serving in Somalia and also in different parts of this country, away from their families. They are putting their lives on the line so that this country is safe. As the National Assembly, under Article 238(2), national security is subject to the authority of the Constitution and Parliament. If the problem of this country is the Constitution, I think---
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Two minutes are over. It was at my discretion.
Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I have waited until I was about to lose hope. Yesterday I waited until the time was over. I want to add my voice to what the President has given us this afternoon. It has come at the right time when Kenyans are waiting for solutions to the problems they are facing. There is a lot of disconnect in our security forces. What the National Intelligence Service (NIS) is giving out are nice reports but the problem is execution. I am requesting the President to have the NIS or information office that is allowed to prosecute; that they bring information and prosecute. The information that we have on the ground is always true but the problem is the people who should implement it because of disconnect within security forces. We want to strengthen administration right from the County Commissioners down to our chiefs and even our village elders. When we empower the village elders and pay them something small, it is encouraging. They are doing donkey work on the ground to The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
give us information, unlike through the Nyumba Kumi Intiative. There has been a lot of support from our village elders. They give information to our assistant chiefs, chiefs and District Officers (DOs). If they are given sufficient support and a token of appreciation, information will always be there for us.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Two minutes are over. From this side, I will allow the hon. Member for Alego Usonga, hon. Omondi.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Let me send my condolences to the families of the Kenyans who were murdered the other day and those who were murdered before. I do not think that the problem of security in our country cannot be categorized. Look at the kind of security that we, Members of the National Assembly and the Senators, arrange for ourselves. If you go to the counties, you will see how the governors have arranged for their security. The only person who has no security in this country is the common mwananchi . We attribute this to selfishness, tribalism that has taken root in our country and corruption that has been institutionalised in our country. All the people who matter can arrange their security, but the common man is left out.
The other reason, as I said is tribalism where certain positions are earmarked for certain people, even if they do not qualify. We need to look into this. The other problem is the business as usual attitude with the Government. They do not care. The 10 per cent of the Constitution that was said to be bad should form part of the dialogue in terms of how we should change it. This informs the security challenge that we are witnessing in this country. My colleague talked about the Budget and the fact that we allocate adequate money to the security sector. One question that we should ask is; what control does Kimaiyo have on this money?
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Your time is up. Hon. Members, it was at my discretion that I had to give a chance to the three Members; for good reasons. I have ten requests remaining. We have Ronald Tonui, the Member for Bomet Central, Michael Onyura, Member for Butula, James Kimaru; Member for Kesses, Yusuf Chanzu; Member for Vihiga, among others. There are ten requests. Members, you will have opportunity to contribute during the next sitting. It is important to be patient. I, therefore, direct that the Member for Samburu North will have three minutes in the next sitting.