Hon. Speaker, I, the undersigned, on behalf of business owners and residents operating and living along the Old Mombasa Road/Maasai Road A, B and C in Nairobi County, draw the attention of the House to the following:- THAT, the road is an important link for the commercial, industrial and residential areas around Old Mombasa Road. However, the road has had improper drainage system for a very long time, leading to perennial seasonal flooding, making the road impassable especially during the rainy season; THAT, the road is dusty, causing respiratory ailments among road users and businesses along the road have stalled as clients cannot access the premises and delivery of goods to the business premises is hampered, occasioning massive redundancy; THAT, there has been increased insecurity as carjackers, muggers and robbers have taken advantage of the poor state of the road to terrorise motorists; THAT, the dilapidated state of the road has led to the inaccessibility of basic and essential social services such as health and education as well as emergency services like ambulance and fire engine service; THAT, in 2008, the Kenya Roads Board allocated Kshs.100 million for the upgrading of the road to bitumen standard but to-date, no works have been done; THAT, efforts to have the matter addressed, including numerous meetings with the Kenya Urban Roads Authority (KURA) and the Kenya Roads Board (KRB) have borne no fruits yet the local community continue to suffer; THAT, the matter in respect of which this petition is made is not pending before any court of law or tribunal. Hon. Speaker, therefore, your humble petitioners pray that the National Assembly, through the Departmental Committee on Transport, Public Works and Housing:- (i) intervenes to have the Old Mombasa Road/Maasai Road A, B and C immediately upgraded to bitumen standard to ease movement of people, goods and services; and The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
(ii) investigates to establish how the Kshs.100 million allocated for the upgrading of the road was dispensed. And your petitioners will ever pray.
The petition is referred to the Departmental Committee on Transport, Public Works and Housing for processing in the normal way.
Hon. Sunjeev, stop shaking hands. This is just a petition. Do not start shaking hands because of a petition. I thought it was serious matter. It is important for you to pay attention to this matter. It is good to greet your colleagues but only after we are through with your petition, so that you know where it will be.
Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the House:- The Budget Implementation Review Report for the First Quarter of 2014/2015 from the Office of the Controller of Budget. The Annual Budget Implementation Review Report for the Financial Year 2013/2014 from the Office of the Controller of Budget. The Annual Budget Implementation Review Report for County Governments for the Financial Year 2013/2014 from the Office of the Controller of Budget Sessional Paper No.10 of 2014 on the National Environment Policy, dated October, 2014 from the Ministry of Environment, Water and Natural Resources. Sessional Paper No.11 of 2014 on the National Education for Sustainable Development Policy, dated October, 2014 from the Ministry of Environment, Water and Natural Resources Sessional Paper No.12 of 2014 on the National Wetlands Conservation and Management Policy, dated October, 2014 from the Ministry of Environment, Water and Natural Resources Sessional Paper No.13 of 2014 on Integrated Coastal Zone Management Policy, dated October, 2014 from the Ministry of Environment, Water and Natural Resources The Public Finance Management (Affirmative Action Social Development Fund) Regulations, 2014, pursuant to Section 24 of the Public Finance Management Act, 2014 The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Masinde Muliro University of Science and Technology for the year ended 30th June, 2013 and the Certificate of the Auditor-General therein
Hon. Members, Sessional Paper Nos.10 to 13 are referred to the Departmental Committee on Environment and Natural Resources for their consideration in the usual manner. The Public Finance Management (Affirmative Action Social Development Fund) Regulations, 2014 is referred to the Committee on Delegated Legislation for consideration in the usual manner.
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I can see that hon. Kajuju is quite happy that the regulations have finally been laid on the Table of the House.
Hon. Members, please, take your seats. I thought the Chamber is very comfortable.
Hon. Members, I would like to make a communication regarding the manner of considering the Budget Implementation Reports from the Controller of Budget that have just been tabled by the Leader of Majority Party. The Report will stand committed to the Budget and Appropriations Committee for consideration in a manner similar to that applied to consideration of the Annual Budget Policy Statement and the Budget Estimates. In considering the Reports, the Budget and Appropriations Committee is advised, as per our usual good practice, to undertake the exercise in collaboration with Departmental Committees. In this case, the Departmental Committees are expected to consider the Reports in accordance with their respective mandates and make recommendations to the Budget and Appropriations Committee. Thereafter, the Budget and Appropriations Committee shall proceed to table a Report containing its recommendations and those proposed by the Departmental Committees for consideration by the House. Finally, my attention is drawn to the fact that contents of the Budget Implementation Report for the First Quarter of 2014/2015 Financial Year were carried in some print dailies on Sunday, 30th November and 1st December, 2014. I wish to strongly caution all and sundry, and particularly the Controller of Budget; that any Report that is yet to be submitted to Parliament remains confidential and becomes public only when it is tabled in the House. Article 228 of the Constitution indicates that the Controller of Budget shall submit such Reports to Parliament. Reports not yet submitted to Parliament cannot be the subject of comments and commentaries in the dailies before it has been tabled in this House. Therefore, divulging its contents beforehand is tantamount to abusing the integrity of the House, and should cease forthwith. Thank you. Hon. Amina Abdalla, what is your point of order?
Hon. Speaker, it is just to note the number of policy papers that have been laid on the Table by the Ministry of Environment, Water and Natural Resources, and to urge the Executive that, that is probably a name they should be having in their list of Ministers---
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Hon. Kamama, tell the Member who is standing between the Chair and hon. Amina Abdalla to sit down. I know that, coming from Nakuru, you may not know these things.
You cannot be standing between a Member speaking and the Chair. Continue, hon. Amina.
Hon. Speaker, I just wanted to note the number of policies that the Ministry of Environment, Water and Natural Resources has tabled as a major output. We need to note the performance of the Minister because those policies have been pending in the Ministry for the last decade. So, we need to applaud the Ministry for tabling them.
Very well. Yes, hon. Mwiru.
Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the House:- Report of the Departmental Committee on Lands on the de-gazettement of Government land belonging to Cholim Co-operative Society, Trans Nzoia County. Report of the Departmental Committee on Lands on the petition for the re- settlement of internally displaced persons in Nairobi. Thank you, hon. Speaker.
Yes, Chairperson, Departmental Committee on Finance.
Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the House:- Report of the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade on Privatisation of the Public Sector controlled sugar companies – Nzoia Sugar Company, South Nyanza Sugar Company, Chemilil Sugar Company, Muhoroni Sugar Company and Miwani Sugar Company.
Next is the Chairperson of the Public Investments Committee (PIC) or the Deputy Chair, if there is one. Who is the Deputy Chairperson of the Committee? Sometimes when you have very active Chairs of a Committee, they tend to overshadow all the other Members. The Leader of Minority Party is a member of the Committee, which is chaired by one of his colleagues. Hon. Mwadeghu is also a Member of the Committee?
Hon. Speaker, that is correct. We are supposed to lay the Reports on the Table, but our Chairperson is caught up somewhere. May I apologise on his behalf.
He had indicated his readiness to table these Reports.
Here he comes! The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Hon. Members, we will defer the laying of the Report by hon. Keynan because it is reported that he is also the one who is supposed to move debate on one of the businesses listed on the Order Paper. Proceed, hon. Ababu Namwamba.
Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the House today, Tuesday 2nd December, 2014:- The Appropriations Account, other public accounts and the accounts for the funds of the Kenya Government for the Financial Year 2010/2011; The Appropriations Account, other public accounts and the accounts for the funds of the Government of Kenya for the Financial Year 2011/2012; The Appropriations Account, other public accounts and the accounts for the funds of the Government of Kenya for the Financial Year 2012/2013.
The hon. Leader of Majority Party.
Hon. Speaker, you were to make a ruling on the admissibility of the Public Accounts Committee Reports tabled this afternoon and the Report from the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Co-operatives on the Mumias Sugar Company crisis, based on the serialization of those two reports in the StandardNewspaper . I remember you said you are going to make a ruling or a communication. We need your guidance so that you tell us their admissibility. We will wait for your ruling before the House Business Committee that you chair slots it for debate.
Hon. Ababu, you have the Floor.
Hon. Speaker, I had absolutely no intention of speaking on those reports before moving the Motion for purposes of asking this House to adopt them. However, since this has been raised, allow me a moment to respond to this matter. Let me, first of all, say that this House has just witnessed the making of history. It is the first time in the independence history of this country that the Public Accounts Committee of this House has tabled three reports at the same time. This is a miracle! This House, through the Committee and its 27 Members, has performed a miracle. I invite this House to applaud the Committee accordingly.
May I also say that even as we applaud this Committee, one of the gallant members, the Member of Parliament for Kajiado North, hon. Joseph Manje, is right now hospitalized. He is lying on a hospital bed at Nairobi hospital after he was injured in a fracas that involved the police who threw teargas in his constituency. I wish to send my sympathies to him and applaud his---
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Hon. Keynan, I thought the many years you have been here, you have learnt a few things. Allow me to see hon. Ababu Namwamba.
Hon. Speaker, the issue that the hon. Leader of Majority Party has raised is fundamental. It is a matter that touches on the integrity of this House and the integrity of the work of the committees of this House. Every work that the committees of this House prosecute or undertake is done for and on behalf of this House and under the Chair and the leadership of hon. Speaker. Indeed, it is true that the attention of this Committee was drawn to a newspaper report. It purported to release excerpts or extracts of information from one of the reports we have tabled for the year 2010/2011. The Committee, upon receiving that information, held a crisis meeting to discuss the matter. We discussed this matter at length where-upon we actually addressed the media. Among the issues we sought to know is exactly how a reporter - and that particular reporter, I dare say, has become notorious; notorious for sneaking around and appearing to divulge information and also writing reports intended deliberately to paint this House and hon. Members here in bad light. However, be that as it may, I want to confirm to this honourable House that, at the time that newspaper report was published, the reports that I have just tabled in this house were not completed. If that particular journalist accessed any part or excerpts of that Report, it was not from the Committee. I want to assure this House that the Committee upholds and takes the integrity of this House very seriously. We have undertaken our responsibilities with full decorum and fidelity to safeguard the integrity of this House. I want to assure this House that the three reports we have tabled for the Financial Years 2010/2011, 2011/2012 and 2012/2013 have been done within the purview of the Standing Orders of this House. However, as a Committee of this House working under the guidance of the Chair, we will stand guided by the Chair. Thank you.
Well, hon. Members, for the time being, I need not express myself because I will need to be addressed on specifics of the reports and what was addressed in the media. Hon. Members, I think it is fair to remind ourselves that under Article 118, we are required to transact our business both in the plenary and in the committees with public participation. We are not like the Isle of Man where they would debate all their proposed laws and then on 24th of August every year, they would assemble at some tiny hill called “The Tiny World” where the Bishop would pronounce them to become law. We cannot congregate all Kenyans here or even in committees. Therefore, how do we get the committees to do their work in the glare of everybody? It is by admitting the media. Just like trials in courts of law, individual journalists are at liberty to pick evidence from a trial and express themselves on the evidence that has been given in a court of law. Judges have learnt to ignore those reports and proceed only on the basis of the evidence that they have received. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
We are required also as committees to only deal with that which has been submitted to us. Ignore the reports, the so-called analysis and commentaries unless they purport to quote individual members of committees. In the fullness of time, we will be able to address that issue of journalists leaking contents of reports which have not been tabled before the House. I have just addressed that with regard to the report from the Controller of Budget. Hon. Members, on Sunday this week and in yesterday’s newspapers, the Quarterly Report by the Controller of Budget which, as you know, is made pursuant to the provisions of the Constitution under Article 228, was the subject of media reports, analysis and commentaries. We have just directed that the Controller of Budget particularly adheres to the Constitution that, first of all, submits the reports to the House.
Once they have been submitted, they become public. Then the media is at liberty to pick and comment on them as they choose or as they best understand. They will not always understand them in the best way or correctly. But if they desire to do so, they are at liberty to go and make what they may out of those reports.
It is unfair for the media to purport to report on a report which has not been submitted or laid on the Table. Until such time as hon. Ababu Namwamba has given notice and debate on those reports commences, so that specifics of the recommendations can be looked at with regard to admissibility and with regard to the resolution sought, we will not be fair to begin to stifle the efforts which are remarkable and commendable. Indeed, I want to agree with hon. Ababu Namwamba that they have done a commendable job to table those Reports, three of them up to the Financial Year 2012/2013. Is that true hon. Namwamba?
Yes, hon. Speaker
What is remaining is the report for Financial Year 2013/2014 which has not been audited and report submitted to the House. It is commendable effort and we should not stifle that effort by ruling on admissibility at this point. However, when we deal with the specifics of those Reports, and hon. Ababu Namwamba has specifically referred to the Report of the Financial Year 2010/2011, we can address the matter that time. Let us proceed.
Hon. Keynan, I saw him walking around. He is becoming extremely nomadic, is he not?
Let us give him time. Maybe he has gone to collect part of the reports. We will give him time to come and lay them. Let us proceed.
Hon. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) on:- The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
(1) The Appropriations Account, other public accounts and the accounts for the funds of the Kenya Government for the Financial Year 2010/2011; (2) The Appropriations Account, other public accounts and the accounts for the funds of the Government of Kenya for the Financial Year 2011/2012; (3) The Appropriations Account, other public accounts and the accounts for the funds of the Government of Kenya for the Financial Year 2012/2013 laid on the Table of the House today, Tuesday, December 2, 2014. Hon. Speaker, if you could just indulge me for one minute to commend you for the instant guidance you have given. I also use this opportunity to give assurance to this House that, indeed, when you get the opportunity to look at the three Reports that have been tabled here, take that opportunity to interrogate the 2010/2011 Report because remember we have a set of three reports. The Report that was affected by the so-called leakage is for the Financial Year 2010/2011. I dare say that if the Committee wished to be mischievous and to divulge details of our own report, we would perhaps have been motivated to divulge the latest report which is for the Financial Year 2012/2013, which is the most current and relevant. You realise that this particular leakage or published excerpt was on the old report which is the Financial Year 2010/2011. However, I invite hon. Members to look at that particular report vis-a-vis that new story. One thing that will strike you is that, that story was absolutely and inherently mischievous. It threw about names of personalities, one of whom is a Senator in this Parliament. You will actually find that, that report was nowhere near the actual findings and recommendations. I leave it to hon. Members, as hon. Speaker you have instructed, to look at this Report for 2010/2011 vis-a-vis that new story.
I reiterate what I have already said, that I believe hon. Members of this Committee have acted with decorum and dignity and we have protected the proceedings and findings of the Committee. This is the first time and the first forum where the Committee is submitting its findings and its recommendations.
Finally, allow me to just urge this hon. House that in this one calendar year, we have managed to clear a five year backlog. You will remember that in the month of April, 2014, I submitted to this House accounts for Financial Years 2007/2008; 2008/2009 and 2009/2010 which we successfully debated and approved in this House in the same month of April.
Upon debating and making a decision on these three reports we have just tabled, this Eleventh Parliament will have cleared a five year backlog inherited from the Tenth Parliament. It will give us an opportunity as the Eleventh Parliament, National Assembly, to now deal with current accounts which will also provide the Government with an opportunity to calculate revenue share between the national Government and county governments on the very latest accounts which will be beneficial to everybody, especially the county governments.
I want to use this opportunity, therefore, to tell the Auditor General that PAC now has no backlog. We are sitting and waiting for the audited accounts for the Financial Year 2013/2014. We have given the Auditor General a deadline of 31st December, 2014 to submit to us the audited accounts for Financial Year 2013/2014 so that the revenue share The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
in the year 2015 should be calculated on the very latest audited accounts. Thank you, hon. Speaker.
Very well. Hon. Mwiru.
Thank you hon. Speaker. I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Departmental Committee on Lands on the de-gazettement of Government land belonging to Cholim Co-operative Society laid on the Table of the House today, Tuesday, 2nd December, 2014. Thank you.
Chairman, Finance, Planning and Trade Committee, Nelson Gaichuhie.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade on the privatisation of the public sector controlled sugar companies, which are Nzoia Sugar Company, South Nyanza Sugar Company, Chemelil Sugar Company, Muhoroni Sugar Company and Miwani Sugar Company, laid on the Table of the House today, 2nd Tuesday, 2014. Thank you.
The Member for Eldas, who also happens to be the Chairperson of the Public Investments Committee. Order, Members! The reports by the Chairperson of the Public Investments Committee and Notice of Motion regarding the same will be tabled and given by latest 4 p.m., hon. Keynan. Very well, let us proceed. Before we proceed, allow me to recognize members of the Ruiru Constituency Peace Team who are seated in the Speaker’s Gallery.
Hon. Members can take their seats.
Hon. Members, it is your liberty to demand a division.
Hon. Wanga, we expect decorum. You should not be standing up in your place and shouting as though this is a market place. I read the Motion; it is “Noting”. You have debated this Motion. If you had paid attention, you would not even be in this confusion.
You noted the report. If you did not note, then you know the way to deal with it. It is very clear. The Ayes have it.
Order, hon. Members! This is a simple matter. You do not have to shout. Resume your seats. Those Members who stood up in their places claiming for a division are sufficient for the Chair to call for a division. Hon. Mbadi, since you assumed some new role recently, you have completely changed from the hon. Mbadi that I know.
Ring the Division Bell.
Order, Members! Hon. Sumra, this is not Embakasi. You surely cannot come and pretend to be addressing a rally. That is not right.
Order, hon. Members! Resume your seats. May the Bar be drawn?
Hon. Members, voting will be electronic. Members will log in for 60 seconds when I say do so. After that, voting will start and continue for another 60 seconds. Obviously, the results will be displayed for everybody to see them. The question is whether the House notes the Report to Parliament on the State of the National Security submitted by His Excellency the President on Thursday, 27th March, 2014 and laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 1st April, 2014. You are at liberty to vote “yes”, “no” or even abstain. Hon. Members, for 60 seconds, you may log in now.
Bishop R. Mutua
On a point of order, hon. Speaker.
What is your point of order?
I have clearly noticed hon. (Eng.) Gumbo and he will be heard in silence.
Hon. Speaker, of course, I respect the decision of the House. I was just wondering, considering what is happening in the country at the moment, would it not have been prudent for this House to reopen debate on this matter? I am just---
You are out of order. When the House has voted on a matter--- You are totally out of order. Please familiarize yourselves more with your Standing Orders.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I rise to seek your direction, looking at the security situation in this country, latest we are seeing the Inspector-General of Police, David Kimaiyo has just resigned.
Would it be prudent for hon. Members to ventilate a bit, hon. Speaker?
Once again, you are out of order.
Hon. Members, when the House has expressed itself, one way or the other, for you to reopen that matter, it is not that casual. Hon. Wakhungu, I thought by now you have studied and understood a resolution. You cannot reverse it. You cannot even reopen it until after six months are over. Remember we have had occasion to deal with this issue. Let us proceed.
Hon. Speaker, I thought we have voted and those who usually lose have lost and those who usually win have won. So, we continue. Those who usually lose have lost. They do not learn from history. They lose every day and they keep on trying.
The Leader of Minority Party, surely, what is this new habit? Hon. Members are speaking across the Floor with one another.
The Leader of Minority Party is heckling. If he allows me I will move. I wish to withdraw Order No.10 because the Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology and the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade are yet to finalise on a number of amendments. We have also agreed with the Executive that we will revisit this tomorrow. Under Order No.11, the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade and the National Treasury want to do the last consultation tomorrow morning and then we can bring it. That leaves me with your direction and indulgence.
Order, hon. Members!
Hon. Speaker, the great woman of Homa Bay must realize that we are no longer at the funeral of Senator Kajwang’.
We are in the National Assembly. Hon. Speaker, I beg your direction to withdraw.
Hon. Members, the Leader of Majority Party is moving amendment. I will only deal with business. He is requesting for postponement of debate on Order Nos.10 and No.11.
Hon. Members, I wish to draw your attention particularly to Motion No.11. This is to the fact that hon. Makali Mulu proposes an amendment, which has not been approved. It is fair, now that the Committee is going to sit, that hon. Makali Mulu will discuss his proposed amendment. It is a reduction from Kshs.28 billion. It came late and so, I had not approved it.
Hon. Keter, you do not cross the Floor like that. Where are you? Go back to the Bar. We are almost two years old here and Members are still making mistakes. So, hon. Mulu, you can then discuss this with the Committee. You are a Member of the Committee and so, you can then discuss it there so that you can agree with the Committee. If there is no agreement, that is not to say that you cannot move your amendment. Hon. Members, hon. Makali Mulu has a serious amendment and he will take it before the Committee. I had seen a request from hon. Eseli.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I rise to seek your guidance. We are surprised that the Leader of Majority Party, whom we all respect and is supposed to conduct the business of the House with decorum, can actually go ahead and say such callous things about the late Senator of Homa Bay. Referring to hon. Wanga that she is making noise and she should not think this is the funeral of the late Senator is the most callous thing to say. This is especially coming from one of the top leaders of this House. I have also noticed that he keeps on passing those callous remarks intermittently. I seek your guidance. I do not know why you never stop him. If any of us tries to do such things, you stop us in our tracks immediately, but he gets away with so much of it. I am wondering whether he got more votes than all of us here. I believe the number of votes he got are what my members of the county assembly got.
Hon. Members, if we begin asking who got more votes than the other, that will never end. Can we transact business before the House? Business appearing on Order Nos.10 and 11 is taken out of the Order Paper. Hon. Makali Mulu!
Thank you, hon. Speaker for giving me this chance. I just want to get your guidance on the proposed amendment on the issue of the ceiling for the national public debt. The reason I propose this amendment is basically because it never came to the Budget and Appropriations Committee. It was only dealt with by the Finance, Planning and Trade Committee.
Order, Members! Hon. Makali Mulu has a very serious amendment.
On a point of order, hon. Speaker.
Order, hon. Members! Order, Members! Let us allow hon. Makali Mulu to raise his point of order. He is on a point of order.
On a point of order, hon. Speaker.
Hon. Members, hon. Mutambu cannot be interrupted when he is on a point of order, please!
Order, Members! Order, hon. Maison! Hon. Members, we must continue with the business. Hon. Makali Mulu, the Member for Kitui Central, is on a serious point regarding the Motion appearing as Order No.11. We must hear him.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. You know, there is---
( Loud consultations)
Order, Members! We must allow hon. Makali Mulu to finish. If there are other issues that you want to raise, you can only do so after that. He is on a point of order.
Hon. Speaker, I was saying that---
I can see there is a lot of excitement on the appointment of hon. Maj-Gen. Nkaissery. I also want to congratulate him for being appointed the new Cabinet Secretary. He is the only one who can okoa Kenya. We look forward to him doing that. I was on a very serious matter. On Motion No.11 the issue of the celling for public debt has not been discussed by the Budget and Appropriations Committee. It has not been discussed by the Finance, Planning and Trade Committee of this House. The reason I am proposing an amendment is because I strongly believe that there are very serious and important national matters which need to be sorted out before we either approve or reject this proposal. I like the idea that we go back to the Committee and discuss the issue. Otherwise being a Member of the Budget and Appropriations Committee, I should not have raised this matter. But I raise it because it has not come to the Budget and Appropriations Committee.
Hon. Makali Mulu, now that the business has been taken out of the Order Paper, you will now be able to raise these issues before the Committee.
I hope our Chairman will call for a meeting and then we can discuss this.
Very well. Nevertheless, your intention is noted also. I can see so many Members who want to rise on points of order. Hon. Wanga!
On a point of order, hon. Speaker. I want to rise on a point of order to take exception with the issue said by the Leader of Majority Party that I was behaving as if I was at the funeral of the late hon. Otieno Kajwang’. In respect for the late Senator and for the people of Homa Bay and the people of this country, I would like, with your permission, the Leader of Majority Party to withdraw this statement. Losing the late Senator Kajwang’ is a very sad thing for this country and should not be made reference to The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
in jest. Hon. Speaker, through you, the Leader of Majority Party should apologise and withdraw that specific statement. While at it, let me congratulate hon. Nkaissery for being nominated Cabinet Secretary. It comes to show that truly the tyranny of brains is in the Coalition for Reforms and Democracy (CORD). We send him to go and o koa Jubilee from the various problems. We are willing to donate more brains to that course.
Hon. (Ms.) Abdalla, you have the Floor.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I commend hon. Mulu for raising the issue of the debt. It is a heavy responsibility for us to increase the debt limit. For him to make that useful input--- We look forward to hearing from him. On the issue of hon. (Maj-Gen.) Nkaissery, I join my colleagues in congratulating him for being nominated. I would like to inform hon. (Ms.) Nyasuna that hon. (Maj-Gen.) Nkaissery was a member of the Kenya African National Union (KANU). We donated him to the Orange Democratic Party (ODM). We are just retrieving our people. Thank you.
Hon. Members, as you are aware, the Chair does not at all contemplate any occasion when it will participate in rumour-mongering. All these things I am hearing, I am wondering whether--- There must be a way in which the Chair communicates with the other arms of Government. It cannot be from hon. Mulu’s congratulatory messages, hon. (Ms.) Nyasuna’s message or hon. (Ms.) Abdalla’s purported congratulatory message. Now, who are you congratulating and for what? Those things are unknown to the Chair. Leader of the Majority Party, you had an issue.
Hon. Speaker, hon. Mulu raised a substantive matter. Through your direction, I want him to appear before the Departmental Committee on Finance, Planning and Trade tomorrow morning, so that they can hear him and agree on the Motion. Secondly, I have absolutely nothing to apologise for or withdraw. What I said, and I will repeat it, was that you do not behave--- Hon. (Ms.) Odhiambo-Mabona will agree with me. I was a member of the funeral committee. I did more for my good friend, the late Senator Otieno Kajwang’, than what hon. (Ms.) Nyasuna, the Women Representative for Homa Bay, did. However, in the House you should not behave as if we are in a political rally or in a funeral. This is what I said and I have nothing to apologise for.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I tell my good friend, hon. A.B. Duale, that an apology is not actually a sign of weakness. He can apologise when he errs. Indeed, he did a very good job in the funeral committee of the late Senator Otieno Kajwang,’ which Mbita people appreciate.
However, I actually heard him very well. He said that hon. (Ms). Nyasuna should not behave as if she was in the funeral of Senator Otieno Kajwang’. I tell hon. A.B. Duale that I do not even know why he was shy. He should have come to Mbita. We welcomed every single person who came there. We behaved very well and that is the truth. I The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
challenge the hon. Members on the Government side to go and watch the clip. Hon. Wamatangi spoke and he was cheered and not jeered. There was no reason why they feared. Senator Otieno Kajwang’ was their colleague. Whenever you find a situation where a politician is being buried, there may be issues, but you must be brave enough to face your opponents. There was no reason for you to shy off. Having said that, I repeat that hon. A. B. Duale, if you are man enough, you should actually apologise. The family of the late Senator Otieno Kajwang’ is watching us. It is not nice to use his name in politicking on the Floor of the House. In the same spirit you supported the senator; please, apologise for those remarks, or, at least, withdraw them. They are not kind. I also congratulate hon. (Maj-Gen.) Nkaissery based on rumours. I agree with hon. (Ms.) Nyasuna that the nomination of hon. (Maj-Gen.) Nkaissery shows that the Opposition has brains and that we set the agenda.
Hon. Members, do not get excited about something I have heard from hon. Abongotum called 411. Hon. Abongotum, who is an old member of the House, has disclosed to the House and to all of us that there is something called 411. So, hon. (Ms.) Odhiambo-Mabona and hon. (Ms.) Abdalla do not use that medium.
Having said so, let me give hon. (Maj-Gen.) Nkaissery a chance to speak because you are talking about him and he is an hon. Member of this House.
Member for Kajiado Central.
Thank you, hon. Speaker.
Order, hon. Members! Order, hon. Members! You have all been making reference to hon. (Maj-Gen.) Nkaissery. You know he is a retired General.
Thank you, hon. Speaker for giving me this opportunity to, first, thank the President, if what is being said is true.
This is not official; so, I want to thank him for the trust he has bestowed on me. In this very difficult time, our country requires serious minds when it comes to security.
I am still a member of Kajiado Central Constituency and a member of ODM. However, Kenya is our homeland and motherland. Therefore, I have to consult the great people of Kajiado Central and make sure---
Let me say that, because this House is still going to be the deciding factor, I am happy for the way we have been together all along. If it is the issue of vetting, you can vet---
Thank you, very much.
Hon. Abongotum, you have the Floor.
, Hon. Speaker, I watched the President nominating the great hon. (Maj-Gen.) Nkaissery for the post of Cabinet Secretary for Interior and Co- ordination of National Government. First, I congratulate him; I know this House will actually approve his nomination. He is a very capable, effective and decisive General, like myself.
Hon. Speaker, I am confident that he will deliver on his mandate; these times are strange. Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures and decisions. We hope when Parliament approves him, he will do a better job. I would also want to thank the President for doing that.
In the USA, which has a presidential system like ours, I know the former Defence Secretary, Robert Gates, was in the Republican Party; even the immediate former Defence Secretary, who has just resigned; Chuck Hagel, whom I met sometime back in the US, was also a Republican. So---
Hon. Members, I think there is no issue for debate. You are anticipating debate. If, indeed, what you are saying is true, you are flouting your own rules. I understand hon. Abongotum is the Chairman of the departmental committee in charge of security. You cannot be possibly making these kinds of statements upfront. Surely, hon. Members, in all fairness, you cannot begin making those kinds of statements. Let us go to business. Forget about the excitement.
Next Order, but before that, I would like hon. Keynan to table a report.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. It seems there is still a lot of excitement and movement. Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the House, today---
Order, hon. Members! When will these hon. Members ever understand the Standing Orders? The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Proceed, hon. Keynan.
Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the House today, Tuesday, 2nd December, 2014:- The Special Report on procurement of the independent consultant for the design, review and construction supervision for the Standard Gauge Railway (SGR) from Mombasa to Nairobi and procurement and installation of facilities, locomotives and rolling stock. Thank you, hon. Speaker.
Hon. Keynan, do you want to give notice of the Motion?
Yes, hon. Speaker.
Hon. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts the Special Report on the procurement of the independent consultant for the design, review and construction supervision for the Standard Gauge Railway (SGR) from Mombasa to Nairobi and procurement and installation of facilities, locomotives and rolling stock, laid on the Table of the House today, Tuesday, 2nd December, 2014. Hon. Speaker, before I sit down, I do not know whether you will allow me to make a comment on all the pending reports by this particular Committee.
But they are not a subject of this!
Hon. Speaker, they are not a subject of this. I just wanted to plead with the House, in particular the leadership of the House Business Committee (HBC), to fast-track a number of reports because going by what appeared in the newspapers today, it is as if there are assumptions. You know the Kenyan public consumes a lot of media reports. The Public Investments Committee has over eight reports still pending before this House. I want to plead with you, as the Chair of the HBC to help us fast-track some of these reports, just as we have done for the 17th and 18th Reports. This will enable us table the 19th Report, which is going to take into account whatever we have been doing for the last one-and-a-half years, that is since the commencement of the Eleventh Parliament.
I thank you, hon. Speaker.
Very well; next Order
Hon. (Ms.) Sunjeev, you have a balance of eight minutes.
Thank you, hon. Speaker, for giving me this opportunity.
On a point of order, hon. Speaker.
Hon. Okoth, what is your point of order?
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I have waited the whole afternoon for this. I wanted to request for some direction. Today in the morning we were scheduled to have three Cabinet Secretaries appear and hon. Members of the Committees were in place to receive them and conduct business. The Departmental Committee on Education, Research and Technology has important and urgent matters about school fees pending for January; it is about the regulations on the amount of school fees that should be paid. The Cabinet Secretaries for all the three Ministries did not appear, including the one for Education, Science and Technology. Since there was no official communication about this, I seek your guidance. I am aware that the House maybe adjourning very soon, and this is a matter of national importance, especially in relation to the issues on fees that parents are supposed to pay next year. Could you, please, provide guidance on when these Cabinet Secretaries will appear, especially the one for education, so that parents do not go back to school in January paying exorbitant school fees, two times or three times the amount that was recommended in the Kilemi Mwiria Report, which was accepted by the President? It recommended that day schools should not charge more than Kshs.17,000 and boarding schools should not charge more than Kshs.40,000. I fear that if this House proceeds with other business and the Cabinet Secretary, who did not appear today, does not appear here to work with the representatives of the people, parents and the children of this country will be affected severely, especially in constituencies like Kibra where we do not have a lot of money. Many parents are expecting relief from the decisions that this House will make in conjunction with the Executive, about education of all our children as per the dictates of the Constitution. Our education at the basic level, the primary and secondary school, should be free and mandatory.
Hon. Okoth, you are now arguing a case with nobody.
Hon. Speaker, I stand guided. I am just giving reason why all afternoon my button has been on.
Hon. Okoth, I hear you. That is an administrative matter that I think should be handled outside of the Chamber so that we know--- You are reporting to me that Cabinet Secretaries did not appear. I need to know administratively what became of that, because my attention should have been drawn to that fact before we came to the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Chamber. But now that you have done so, we will look into it and see how best to address it. The Leader of Majority Party will be called upon to make a Statement on the issue that you are raising.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I would like to start by thanking the Committee for this Report. I must reiterate that this Report is very voluminous. As hon. Keynan mentioned last week, they churned out a total of 127 reports or thereabout; this was more than what they did in the last term. I think in the last term they did around 38 reports. Upon going through these reports, I was dumbfounded because I found that in some reports--- In particular I can mention the Kenya Wildlife Service (KWS), the Water Trust Board and the Safaricom reports. These reports are really serious and they are very concise. I was wondering whether the Committee was in a hurry to just put everything in a concise manner. Did they have short time or, were they not able to do the investigation as thoroughly as they were expected to do? I also noted that some of these reports were backdated to 2008, and that raises a serious concern of backlog that we are facing as a House. I think it is something that we need to look into. Hon. Speaker, out of all these reports, what comes out very seriously for our country is the level of incompetence, non-transparency and corruption that is going on in the sectors. It is a very big shame because some of these people who might have been directors, board members or Chief Executive Officers (CEOs) at that time might have passed on. Some of them are not answerable and it is really sad that we are not able to bring these people to account. The Report is mentioning names of certain people and that these people should be investigated. We do not know how far these reports have gone and so I feel that this Report is full of words. It does not bring out the real issues and I suppose this is what needs to be addressed, if a Committee wants to bring out reports in future. With that hon. Speaker, I would like to say thank you very much for giving me this opportunity. I urge that the Committee takes my notes into consideration. Thank you very much.
Mheshimiwa Spika, naomba nitoe mchango wangu kwa Ripoti hii ya Kamati ya Bunge kuhusu Uwekezaji wa Umma ambayo imechambua mambo mengi kuhusu uendeshaji wa mashirika mbali mbali ya nchi hii. Haswa, naomba nielekeze mwelekeo wangu kwa Shirika la Reli la Kenya ambalo lilichangia sana kuona kuwa kazi ya uendeshaji wa reli imepeanwa kampuni iliyokuwa mbichi, geni, mwanamwali na isiyoweza kufanya kazi. Kampuni hii ilikuwa inatoka Afrika Kusini na kazi yake haikuwa imetambulika au kueleweka vizuri. Hata hivyo Mheshimiwa Spika, ikabainika wazi kuwa Shirika la Reli la Kenya lilitakikana lipeane kazi hii kwa kampuni hiyo. Wakati mmoja ilibidi wakuu wa Serikali waje waone Kamati ya Bunge kuhusu Uwekezaji wa Umma ili waweze kujieleza kwa sababu Kamati hii ilikuwa imeomba tume ya Maadili na Kukabiliana na Ufisadi ichunguze kwa undani waliokuwa Mawaziri wa Usafirishaji na Fedha tangu hapo awali. Mawaziri hao walikuwa Mhe. Kimunya, Mhe. Chirau Ali Mwakwere na Mkuu wa Fedha Joseph Kinyua na Esther Koimett kwa sababu ya yale waliyotenda. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Mhe. Spika, unakumbuka kuwa haya mambo yalitokea Shirika la Reli la Kenya lilipopeanwa kwa kampuni na kusemekana kuwa kampuni hiyo itaendesha Shirika la Reli lakini ikawa haina ujuzi wala mwelekeo. Mpaka hivi sasa tunaposema, hakuna mabehewa yamenunuliwa. Hamna chochote kimetendeka kwa Shirika la Reli. Kwa hivyo Mhe. Spika, hii ni moja tu ya Ripoti zilizoko na zilizotakikana kuangaliwa na Bunge la Kumi ama Bunge la muhula ule uliopita. Kamati husika haikuweza kuziangalia na ndio maana imebidi Kamati hii iende mbele sana na kuhakikisha kuwa Ripoti zote zimemalizika na kuletwa kwako ama kwa Bunge ili Bunge liziangalie na kuzipitisha. Hii ni kwa sababu Ripoti kama hii inahusisha mashirika kadha wa kadha na ni mengi. Ripoti hii ina mashirika 20 na vile mwenzangu amesema, labda haoni ni vipi Kamati hii ingeweza kuziangalia. Hata hivyo na kama ujuavyo Mhe. Spika, tumechukua muda na kuomba ruhusa yako ya kipekee ili Kamati hii ipate kuchunguza Ripoti hizi zote. Kazi ambayo imefanywa na Kamati hii, Mhe. Spika inaridhisha na ni ombi langu kuwa Bunge lipitishe na kukubali Ripoti hii ambayo imepeanwa na Kamati ya Bunge kuhusu Uwekezaji wa Umma. Kwa haya machache, naomba niunge mkono Ripoti ambayo tumeipeana hapa. Naweka tamati, Mhe. Spika.
Hon. Irungu Kang’ata.
Thank you, hon. Speaker. I am a member of this Public Investments Committee. Let me join my colleague in congratulating that Committee and particularly its indefatigable Chairman. One thing that I noted while serving this Committee is that we have so many State corporations in Kenya. Let me quote Prof. Francis Fukuyama on the issue relating to state functions. He said that any rational state has three major functions which can be divided into three categories as follows:- The minimal state functions; those ones which include provision of security for instance. We also have intermediate state functions and activist state functions. Hon. Speaker, a good state should reduce its scope of state functions so that it is able to deliver on the key aspects of a state. Otherwise, if it does activist, intermediate and minimal state functions, it will not be able to deliver on its functions because it will have so much to do. It is on this notion therefore, and as we debate this Report that this country should therefore think about reducing its State corporations. I say that because having gone through so many audit reports of various State corporations, about 55 per cent of those State corporations or so, need to do a lot to ensure that they are doing their core functions well and that they are helping this country. I do not see the rationale of so many of those State corporations. I say that because if we were to reduce some of those corporations for instance, we would concentrate on the key functions of providing security, and we would also save various resources which are being misused presently. Hon. Speaker, of course, I am aware of the fact that we do have some states that have very good and efficient public institutions. I say that because I was a member of the PIC delegation to China where we were able to go to various places. Through PIC, I was able to see a state like China which has very strong institutions where the state does The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
intervene in various areas of industry and commerce. The biggest companies and banks in China are Government-owned. Therefore, I would concede that, indeed, there are instances where the state may offer better goods notwithstanding owning those enterprises. Generally, the accepted notion is to reduce or condense several of these State corporations. That way, we will be able to run these State corporations in a more rational manner. Hon. Speaker, the other issue we need to consider as we debate this Report is the scope of the office of the Auditor General (AG). Of course, there has been a major debate in our PIC as to whether the Auditor General can look at audit reports and financial statements of companies where the Government does not own 50 plus one per cent shares. Hon. Speaker, I remember the National Bank came to our Committee and contested that issue, saying they should only be audited by a private firm. I belong to the school of thought that believes that there is no harm in auditing. We probably need to strengthen the law to ensure that the Kenya National Audit Office (KNAO) has the power to audit any investment of the Government. Even where the Kenya Government has, for instance two or three per cent of shares, KNAO should be given the power to audit that corporation. At present it is a very contentious issue. When that matter comes to our Committee--- I have seen several parastatals saying that they should not be subject to Government intervention in terms of audit. That is a very crucial issue.
I will give examples of two major companies which are now doing badly. They have been hiding behind this issue. The first one is Kenya Airways (KQ). Kenya Airways recently posted a loss of about Kshs10 billion in half-year results. The explanation they gave for such a huge loss was that they had been hit by the Ebola outbreak, and that terrorism has affected their business. However, the revenue in their books has been on an upward trajectory. So, it is a contradiction. Another example I would cite is Uchumi Supermarkets Limited. Uchumi is now on a downward trajectory, having been revived the other day and the Government having invested a lot of money in it. So, I belong to the school of thought that believes that we should audit all companies in which there is Government money. The jurisdiction of the Public Investments Committee should be to go to wherever Government money is, otherwise saying that we can only intervene where the Government owns more than 50 per cent of shares does not make sense. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, another issue that very strongly comes out of these Reports is prudent management of companies. One of the issues we need to consider is performance contracting. Performance contracting is at present just a policy. I belong to the school of thought that believes that we can crystallise performance contracting to become a law, and so that you can give incentives and rewards to the heads The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
of parastatals which are doing well. We can also apply sanctions to the heads of parastatals which are continuously on a loss-making trend. One of the reasons why we do not have very good quality of output in Public Service as compared to the private sector is lack of incentives. In the private sector, if you do well you get bonuses and promotions. However, in Government, if you do well, no one is going to recognise you and there is nothing that you are going to benefit as a Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of a parastatal. During the Kibaki era, the United Nations (UN) feted the Government for coming up with the concept of performance contracting. I, therefore, belong to the school of thought that believes that performance contracting should not just be a policy issue. Let us crystallise that policy into a law, so that CEOs of those parastatals which do well - you can see several of them when you look at these reports - should be feted. They should be given some recognition and incentives for them to continue doing well. Chief Executive Officers of parastatals which have been gobbling Government resources should be punished. We went to Mombasa the other day to look at the parastatals in the Coast region. One of the issues that I noted was that the Kenya Ferry Services (KFS), for instance, is a parastatal owned by the Government. It is a loss-making parastatal. It does not make money and it has a lot of audit issues. However, it is an entity that can be turned around simply by coming up with good ferry services. We know of other jurisdictions where ferry services are very advanced. I would, therefore, propose that as we debate this Motion, we come up with better ideas on how to redress the malpractices in our parastatals. The best idea is to come up with a law guiding performance contracts.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Yusuf Chanzu.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support the adoption of the 17th Report of the Public Investments Committee, which was tabled in this House. I take the opportunity to congratulate the Committee for having been able to bring the Report. In the last Parliament I was a member of the PIC; I was the Vice-Chairman. What we found out was that there was a lot of backlog. In fact, if you look at the Report, you will find that quite a number of parastatals, or Government corporations, had not done reporting on what had been brought here by the then Controller and Auditor- General. For example, for the Jomo Kenyatta Foundation (JKF) we were investigating issues dating back from 1999 to 2008. Even for Nzoia Sugar Company, which was meant to improve the livelihoods of people in that area through sugarcane growing, we were doing the reports of 1999 up to 2001. A big organization in which we have had a lot of problems is the National Social Security Fund (NSSF), which is intended to hold savings of small savers. They have had to divert from the main activity which they are supposed to carry out and go into huge investments like buying property, which is sometimes wasteful, and investing in securities. We noted that CEOs of the NSSF would just make a phone call to institutions like the Kenya Commercial Bank (KCB) and buy shares in them without seeking the approval of the board. In the case of NSSF, they collect a lot of money and the CEO would just take a proportion of that money and put it into investments. In fact, that is why the NSSF has lost a lot of money through investments, which are not prudent at all. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
The most important thing is to appreciate what the two committees have done, and in this particular case the PIC. They tabled Reports so that we can update the information we have; if there is any follow-up to make, we do it. If you stay for so many years and you are reporting on something that happened many years ago, it is extremely difficult to take action. Even if you wanted to take action against those who were manning the institutions, some of them have already left while others live in deplorable conditions, so that even if you followed them, you would not be able to recover what has disappeared. The problem with PIC is that, although it examines public investments, it is post-mortem. It deals with things that have already happened.
The only remedy is that the reports should be as current as possible. This is because if you are doing a report for the last one or two years, it is much easier to follow. However, reports which date back many years are not good. If you look at the Kenya Railways Corporation, for example, a lot of its assets were misappropriated by people who are still in this country, and some of them are still holding very senior positions. However, because it has taken a very long time for the reports to be tabled in this House, it becomes very difficult to be able to follow the history and apprehend suspects.
The same thing happened with the Agricultural Development Corporation (ADC), where a lot of land that was meant to have improved food productivity in this country was grabbed by individuals. There was wanton destruction of property, but the problem is that you cannot follow up the issue. So, the best thing is that the reports are as current as possible, so that it is easier to follow them.
The same thing again applies to the Kenya Ports Authority (KPA) and all these parastatals. In fact, Kenyans have lost a lot of money through these parastatals. For example, the KPA engaged consultants to design certain projects, but some of those projects were not even undertaken. Professionals were paid professional fees for projects that were not done. There is no remedy when huge sums of money have been spent.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, one of the issues that I think is important also is parastatals reform. It is important that there are recommendations on how these parastatals can be reformed, because with passage of time some of them may not be relevant. The reforms that were undertaken the other day of trying to merge parastatals were good, although again, I noticed something which may not be very good in the long- term. If you merge so many of them into one corporation, the result will be one big organization that will have a problem of management. However, I think there should be recommendations on how reforms should be undertaken, and it should be in a way that after some time there is a total review. This is so that we identify those which are not efficient and get them out. Some Government companies were killed and they include Kisumu Cotton Mills (KICOMI), which was later bought by private individuals. You find that people in Nyanza and parts of Busia in the former Western Province would have benefited if the Government became interested and got the cotton industry running.
So, review of performance of these State corporations is important. The problem is that appointments in these organizations have been political and not based on any technical or professional competence. That is where we got into trouble. Now, it is important that they are categorized, so that we have those which are able to do business The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
for Kenyans, those that can regulate what goes on and those which are just service providers or educational.
The idea was to make most of them self-sustaining, so that, at least, they make funds to run by themselves and avoid going back to the public coffers for funding. That would be a very ideal situation as envisaged by the recommendations that I have read in this report. Hon. Speaker, there are new organizations that have come up. For example, the Kenya Power Company faced a lot of problems of running overheads and it was split into Kenya Power and KenGen. Eventually, they came up with the Geothermal Company, which is a huge organization. These are the areas where we must be very vigilant and careful when it comes to appointing the Chief Executive Officers (CEOs), because they are a huge investment and must be run properly. If the make losses, the economy will lose and, therefore, Kenyans. Those are areas we need to lay a lot of emphasis on, particularly areas which we are supposed to ---
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Your time is up, hon. Chanzu. Let us hear from hon. Nyamweya.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this chance to contribute to this very important Motion. First, I want to thank hon. Members of the Public Investments Committee for making a lot of efforts in trying to bring records to date. We have experienced challenges of investigating historical information. We are now looking at the books of, 2004/2005, 2005/2006, 2006/2007, 2007/2008 and 2008/2009. On mistakes which were made at that time, as much as we are discussing them now, they are matters which are historical; they happened some time back. Some of the officers concerned have retired and some have died. But some of them are still working. I went through the Report and saw that the committee has touched on various parastatals. First, I want to talk about the Jomo Kenyatta Foundation. What was the mandate of Jomo Kenyatta Foundation? The challenge here is whether we still need to have these foundations which were formed as parastatals? This is because when you look at the history of Jomo Kenyatta Foundation, and when you look at what the Auditor General has said in terms of financial discipline and allowances for the staff, it is all negative. You wonder why we still have this organization in existence. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, we have talked about Nzoia Sugar Company in this Report. It gives very clear evidence of the plunder of public resources. What has happened all these years is a long history? A company is struggling to survive and we pretend that one day and one time, something positive is going to happen without addressing the issues. When we talk about Nzoia Sugar Company, the equipment which was bought was never installed in the factory and was never put into use. Nothing happened to those people who bought the equipment. Consultants were hired, they gave reports, they were paid and nothing happened to them. Now, with the changing technology and the old equipment, it is not able to meet the bills which were incurred. If you take a loan and you do not use that loan for the intended purpose, you will end up paying it. This is what happened in Nzoia Sugar Company. It is more than 10 years as we speak here today. If you go to Chemelil Sugar The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Company, you will get the same story. Equipment which was bought by the officers who were at Chemelil Sugar Company--- It is good that I have referred to one section here. The problem that we are having here is that they got loans from Kenya Sugar Board (KSB). KSB gives loans to factories, and it is the same organisation which is used to authorize sugar to come into the country illegally. The effect is that farmers cannot be paid; the factory incurs debts; they are not able to service the loans. Finally, the money they collect from factories is used to pay farmers. But they do not address the KSB issue, or the basic issue of stopping the importation of sugar. Right now there is a crisis in the sugar sector. If you check, the importers of sugar will tell you that they have brought this sugar to the country legally. They have got documents and it has been sanctioned, but the Cabinet Secretary (CS) says that we have got a shortage of sugar. Factories like Muhoroni, Sony Sugar, Chemelil and Western Kenya Sugar have sugar which has not been sold. The issue here is leadership and honesty in the people who are concerned. This Report is a graveyard. If you look at universities like the University of Nairobi, they begin projects, which are not properly funded. Nobody gives them extra money. If you look at NEMA, it is not properly funded. Kenyatta National Hospital (KNH) is experiencing the same problems. It is not given enough money and the little that it is given is squandered. Nothing happens to the officers who squander this money. The story continues year in, year out. The report on KNH is on pages 160 to 204; this is massive. When you read it, it talks about wrong investments. KNH gave money to the National Bank on call without interest, yet it does not have equipment and medicines to treat patients. You wonder of what benefit this was to the hospital. KNH decided to deposit mortgage funds for its staff with the bank, but no staff was given a loan. They invested Kshs101 million. This has no relevance. These things happened ten years back and the Chief Executive Officer, who was there then is not there. It is historical. I am happy that the Committee is trying to be current, so that we can deal with current issues. The Report is talking about payments to various law firms and money given to Euro Bank, which is no longer there. In every action that the hospital takes, funds are misused. The Report is talking about rehabilitation and extension of the Sisters’ Mess, Sisters’ Flats, Registrar’s Flats and Servant Quarters. When you go through the Report, you find that those houses were not completed and Kshs360 million was paid out. Consultants and lawyers were paid, but at the end of the day, procurement regulations were not followed. We only end up recommending that the Director did not follow the procurement rules. We also talk about future projects and the fact that they should follow procurement rules. The Report is also talking about renovation and extension of the hospital’s Main Casualty Department. This was in 2003 and the money was given. A contractor was given the tender to do the job, but this ended up being a criminal case and nothing has happened. I am happy that Members have made a lot of effort to look into these issues, and I believe we will adopt this Report; the only challenge is whether the investigating arm will take the necessary will to pursue the culprits. We need to know whether officers who are working in Ministries will take the necessary steps to recover the money, which was given to these institutions. The Report talks about stock held and missing when they were auditing. When you read this Report, it shows the problem that we have as a The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
country. The Report talks about the Kenya Railways, which is well covered in over 60 pages. All the Report is telling us is how the Kenya Railways land has been sold off. Those are the details in this Report. I do not know where some of the people who did this are, but some of them are there even as Accounting Officers. The Report states that the Kenya Railways has been vandalised. People have enriched themselves from the KRC. They have taken the parastatal’s land and sold it to other people. The Committee heard that the Kenya Railways took various loans and that money went to a specific project, which was never completed. So, it is very important that after we debate and pass this Report---
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Your time is up.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, thank you for giving me this chance to contribute to this important Report. From the outset, I want to say that a report is important because it is information and information is power. When information is delayed, it loses meaning. It is no longer relevant; no action can be taken because it will have been overtaken by events. However, the Committee has tried; if you look at the Report, it is a big volume but we want them to move with speed. If you look at this Report, it is for the year 2010 meaning that they still have a long way to go to bring other reports to speed. It is worrying that in this country most parastatals are running at serious losses. It is a burden to the Government because it continuously allocates funding to the parastatals whereas the idea of having parastatals is to have services rendered to the Kenyan people in a more efficient manner than how the Civil Service does. If you take an example of countries like China, parastatals are engaged in very productive activities, including building roads and bridges and moving out of their own country to go and develop other countries because they have been run professionally to the extent that they do not talk about losses. They talk about value addition to their country. I do not know when in this country parastatals will move in that direction, and when we will not be talking about very serious issues and not delaying publication of financial statements. We have several incidents in the Report of unsupported payments. Those are very simple control issues. If you look at this Report, there are many parastatals with land problems. Most of the land owned by parastatals has no title deeds. Some of them have title deeds but they have been allocated to the wrong people. It is worrying that a Report like this one comes out and names those who have made mistakes in the past. When it is recommended that action be taken against them, my question is whether this is practical? You find some people who have been listed here are already dead. Some of them are no longer officers in the Government. So, what action can you take? There is even a list here which shows some officers who were sent to monitor what the parastatals were doing – they were working in the Efficiency Monitoring Unit (EMU). They received Kshs2.3 million and their names are listed. I am not surprised that all those people may not be working right now in the Government. Therefore, when we recommend action; this is quite futile because no action can practically be taken against those people. We have seen many parastatals, including the Kenya Railways Corporation (KR) and the Kenya Wildlife Service (KWS), which have many assets and those assets are categorized as non-earning assets. They are rotting away. They may not have any use in The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
the economy because they have been left to deteriorate to the extent that they cannot add value. Late last year and early this year, the Government has recommended merging or seriously restructuring parastatals. That is actually a good way of ensuring that public resources are well utilized. We are going to support her. If they are not going to be restructured in that way, it will be very futile to bring those parastatals to a state where they are going to be useful in this country. I have wondered how assets like houses are lying on pieces of lands. We know from an accounting perspective that houses have appreciated. They are not going to lose value. That is because as the economy grows and as time goes by, the value of land and buildings will not cause any losses. If you look at parastatals like Kenya Reinsurance Corporation Limited (Kenya Re), there was a time they lost Ksh88 million through sale of houses. They should apply prudent decision-making techniques where they have a reserve value. They cannot sell below the reserve price. This is a very clear pointer of craftiness where people sell Government buildings at a loss because they have a serious conflict of interest. This Report has very serious recommendations but I had already said that my worry is whether those actions can be taken now because of the lapse of time.
There are quite a number of parastatals that have engaged in wrong allocation of land, many unrecovered advances and loans to staff. I have seen Nyayo Tea zones where some of the former District Commissioners (DCs) acquired a lot of money. You fail to understand the connection between DCs and Nyayo Tea Zones. Quite a number of Chief Executive Officers (CEOs) in the past were completely careless in running those parastatals. Some parastatals like Nyayo Tea Zones can make a lot of profit. They are operating in environments where other companies that are being run privately are making a lot of profits. Those ones were making losses and yet, they have a lot of potential. If you look at parastatals like the Kenya Medical Research Institute (KEMRI) which had a lot of money from donors, you will still find that they are actually limping. Even now, you know very well that they are not adding a lot of value to this country because they are limping on the basis of the past events where they lost a lot of money. The Government was funding them and, at the same time, they were even going for loans. There is the National Bank of Kenya which was already having a huge debt from KEMRI. They recommended disposing of land belonging to KEMRI. If we allow such parastatals to continue, you will find that, at the end of the day, the Government will lose a lot. If you look at the Report, there are issues on staff houses project which was started. They were not successful because they got stuck on the way because of lack of prudent management. This country had a lot of opportunities in the past, especially in the research stations. There were so many donors who were giving a lot of funding to them. However, they actually lacked vision because they could not see a way of investing well.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Thank you. Let us have hon. Michael Onyura of Butula.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Yes, what is your point of order, hon. Wamunyinyi? The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon.Wamunyinyi, I have three requests from Members.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Let me just confirm with hon. Susan Chebet.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Okay. Let me just confirm and let ---
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Are you okay that we move to the---
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Okay. I will put the Question.
Hon. Member, please, do not donate any time on this one. You move.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Since the next report is tied to this particular Report, then it means for those Members who did not get an opportunity to contribute to this 17th Report, I think they will get an opportunity. Therefore, I will not donate a minute. I will continue and respond to the issues raised. This was a report by the 10th Parliament, but because it is a report by the same Committee, we felt duty-bound to bring it here for debate and conclude it. This is so that it can pave way for the tabling of the 19th Report which is our product as the 11th Parliament and is almost ready. I want to take this opportunity to thank Members for their contributions and concerns. The issues raised are still in existence. Issues still persist and affect most of the quasi-government institutions, particularly the parastatals, State corporations and other Government agents. Those of you who have copies of this Report will see that in the last 10th Parliament, they dealt with about 27 parastatals. As we speak today, we have done close to over 140 parastatals. This means that, by the end of our term, we will have completed the backlog. Therefore, just like hon. Chanzu and the hon. my good friend who has just spoken has also alluded to, I think in the next Parliament, for those of us who will be privileged to be in the next Parliament, God willing, we will not be dealing with historical issues. We will be dealing with current affairs just like the indomitable hon. Bonny Khalwale did for the Public Accounts Committee in the last Parliament. That is The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
why today the Members of the Public Accounts Committee, if you look at their reports which have just been tabled, they are for 2011/2012, 2012/2013 and 2013/2014. I think in the next Parliament, we will be in the same state. Therefore, I want to take this opportunity to move and say thank you.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Hon. Members, we are going to postpone the putting of the Question until tomorrow or the next sitting. I, therefore, call upon the next Order.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts the Eighteenth Report of the Public Investments Committee on the Accounts of State Corporations, Volumes I & II, laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 19th December, 2012.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, you will remember that this Report was tabled shortly before the last Parliament adjourned sine die . Therefore, it was not possible for us to conclude debate on it. It is also fair that the hon. Members who were in that House, and those who are privileged to be Members of the Eleventh Parliament, get an opportunity to familiarise themselves with some of the issues spelt out in the Eighteenth PIC Report.
One of the mandates of PIC is to examine reports and accounts of public investments. To “examine” means to analyse and interrogate. You look at all the accounts of public investments in perspective. By definition, “public investments” are all the State institutions governed by a statute or an Act of Parliament.
The second function of PIC is examination of reports, if any, of the Auditor General on public investments. This is where the current issues arise. The PIC, as one of the two investment committees of this House, is at liberty to, at any given time, request the Office of the Auditor General to carry out an audit on any issue appertaining to any public investment. This is one of the provisions contained in the latest version of our Standing Orders – the one that we amended shortly before the last Parliament adjourned
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. In seconding this Motion, I want to make it very clear from the outset that this Report was supposed to be done by the Tenth Parliament, just as has been reported by the Chairman. For one reason or another, this work was not done and it has been the responsibility of the Public Investments Committee of the Eleventh Parliament to compile this Report. As you can see, we are dealing with outdated information and old data. The personalities and the people involved are long gone. It became very difficult for the Committee to go through the issues. All the same, I have a few observations to make. First, in all those reports, it has become common that most of the Executives, who have been charged with the responsibility of running those institutions, have just gone The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
there for one purpose; to just make money. If you go through all our recommendations, starting from the illegal acquisition of Corporation land, we are recommending that the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission takes up the matter, investigates and those found culpable be brought to book. We are looking at areas like Kisii, Naivasha, Kitale and Mtwapa where we have the same story. For how long will this continue in this country? Is it a country where parastatals or State corporations are brought up purely for certain individuals to make money, loot and get away with it? Nothing is done to them. It is very disheartening that practically in most of the institutions we have investigated and have come into our records, the trend is similar. There is looting of public land, no accounts, outstanding imprest and the story is the same. Given the fact that this Report was supposed to have been tabled by the previous Committee, I want to make a final observation that time has come for Kenyans to change their attitude. Time has come for us to look at those State corporations as institutions that are meant to develop the country. We should look at them as institutions which are geared towards opening the country apart from creating employment. This culture of hiving off State corporations’ land and stealing funds should end. The Triton case and the grabbing of the Kenya Agricultural Research Institute (KARI) land are fresh in our minds. It is my hope and desire that all those who are mentioned in those reports, once they are adopted by the House, the relevant Committees will see to it that further investigations are done and the implementation of the recommendations of this Committee are followed to the letter. With those few remarks, I beg to second the Motion.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this Motion. I happen to be a Member of this Committee where this Report has come from. I want to answer my colleague who put a question to me; he was sitting with the Members of Parliament who looted from this country. Kenyans glorified those guys by electing them to this House. As we fight corruption, the Kenyan public should understand that it is not the responsibility of an individual; it is the responsibility of all of us. The land that hon. Wamunyinyi mentioned has been grabbed in Bungoma; the owner could sell it during the next election and defeat him. It does not make sense for Kenyans to watch all those happening. We have civil servants who are earning Kshs.70,000 a month but the property that they own; you wonder why they are still at their workplace. What they earn and what they own do not match. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, if you look at what is in their banks, you wonder whether the anti-fraud agency is sleeping on its job. We have a character in our place, just a simple man, who once worked as a procurement officer. He was not at the top but I am telling you he has billions. Nobody would ask the fellow how he acquired that kind of money. When we talk about the reports that we have, they contain names of characters - directors, chairpersons and CEOs who, at one point, worked in institutions in this country. Before they left, they either went with imprest or loans that they approved for themselves. I wish the Chairman would listen carefully. We even have a CEO who once approved Kshs5 million for herself. She went and bought a building and, up to now, she is in the same building. So, as we talk about all those reports, we have so many crooks out there who are enjoying while Kenyans are suffering. The money they have is ours. It is our money and those guys should surrender. If those reports are adopted and implemented, Kenyans will learn a lesson that if you steal, you belong to jail. You do not belong to the house of the people like Parliament. I have looked at the reports many times and I have seen Kenyans who, after stealing property, get promotions. If you look at the civil servants at the top in this country, they are the biggest looters and the best they can be given is a higher promotion. Unless we change this trend, we are encouraging those looters to continue looting this The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
country. The richest thieves in this country are the guys who acted and worked in those parastatals. If their names are here, the property that they stole is here. The only alternative for them is to surrender it back to the Government and Kenyan people. We cannot have a situation where we have few billionaires and ten thousand beggars who are busy voting for us after we have stolen from them. In my view, if those reports are just meant for the shelves, then there will be no business discussing them. If the House can adopt these reports and they are implemented, I think we will have a different Kenya. We are in that process. The only guys letting us down are the Opposition who are failing to check the Government. Instead, they are also busy looting in Bungoma, Migori, Wajir and even in my own backyard. The Opposition should not look at me. Hon. Nuh should not look at me. They have let us down. It is true, whether they like it or not. Their responsibility is to check the Government. So, as I stand and support this Motion, I am urging all Kenyans to protect our country. We have seen how the Al Shabaab is busy destroying us. We cannot destroy ourselves when those guys are busy destroying us by killing us. We are here destroying ourselves financially. As I sit, I am also sending a powerful warning to the Al Shabaab that we are here to stay and we cannot be intimidated. I will not run from this country. Let them run. I know they can run but they cannot hide. One day, they will be in jail. Thank you, I support this Motion.
Thank you very much, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this chance to contribute to this Motion. Before I make the few comments that I have, just allow me to join the rest of the country in mourning the innocent lives that were very senselessly lost in Mandera as we have read and heard. I join the rest of the country in condemning those kinds of senseless killing by those cowardly terrorists. I want to start by commending the current Public Investments Committee (PIC). I was here when the Chairman was introducing and giving his speech. What I learnt is that they are actually catching up. We are likely to be current. They have, in fact, come up to the year 2012/2013. So, we have those reports now. Going by what the Chairman said, we should, by early next year, be having the Report for 2013/2014. This is important because when you are dealing with issues that are just historical, they do not carry weight. You do not feel that seriousness. The pinch gets less as you keep moving with years.
Even the evidence that could have been used against the perpetrators of all the ills that have been committed, some of them are no longer in office. Some of them have long retired. Others, perhaps, have moved on; they are no longer with us. So, it becomes difficult to prosecute those cases. Now that we are getting current with those reports, let us hope that somebody will be following up and taking action against those who are named in reports like these ones. People must be made accountable. The law says that. Normally when you read through these reports, what comes out is shocking. I am sure that even just the three Reports that are in the House, if you went through them page by page, listed and added up all the monies and properties that are listed there as having been misused, mismanaged, stolen and looted, you will be talking about billions of shillings. That is money that can serve this country very well. It can develop this country. But we just talk here – just like it has been done before - and those reports will just go into the shelves. Nothing will happen. Even personally, I cannot recollect any action that The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
has been taken. I cannot think of any case that has been followed up and has been prosecuted because of these reports from PIC and PAC. It is high time this National Assembly put its foot down to make sure that those reports are actually followed up. I differ slightly with my colleague who has said that, maybe, it is the Opposition that is not checking the Government. But you see, it is the Government that has the machinery to enforce. It controls the Ethics and Anti-corruption Commission, the Criminal Investigation Department (CID) and those who are supposed to take action against the perpetrators of those ills against Kenyans. It is the one that is supposed to investigate. All we can do is point out and adopt reports like we are doing now. We also know that PIC is chaired by the Opposition. The Committee has brought up those things and made recommendations. The Members have told us:- “These are the people who looted and those are the properties that got lost.” So, those who have the machinery should take the responsibility to ensure that the matter is followed up and those who have committed those offences are held to account. Going through the reports, the extent of corruption, wastage and looting is shocking. We need to curb this. Talking about the parastatals, my view is that the Government should get out of business. It should privatise the parastatals because they make a lot of losses. They feel that the Government should remain in those parastatals. The Government should make sure that the management and running of those parastatals is done at the highest professional levels possible. It should ensure that those who are hired to manage those organizations are the best candidates that we can find in Kenya. They should be hired based on merit and nothing more. They should not be hired on any other grounds like the regions they come from or the language that they speak. That has been one of the problems that we have in Kenya. We hire people, give them big responsibilities and a lot of money is pumped into those organizations, but there is no professional commitment in those who are running the organisations. A colleague has mentioned the case of the sugar industry. It is a shame! At one time, those factories were doing very well. They were making profits and the farmers were enjoying. With time, slowly and slowly, they started being looted. Reports have been written, even naming the people who have been doing this and the extent to which they have plundered those organizations, but nothing has been done. Mega scandals have rocked us in the past and they are even going on now. Names have been brought up. Instead, what do we see? The very people who are named in those mega scandals, like Anglo Leasing and Goldenberg, are the ones you find enjoying life. Unfortunately, they are being treated with a lot of respect even from the ordinary wananchi . Instead of shunning people like those and looking at them as criminals and thieves, we treat them with respect. Unfortunately, because of the sort of money that they have, they find their way to places like the National Assembly. If we go that route, we shall never develop as a country. I also want to mention something else that is disturbing. Capital and infrastructural projects are started and never completed. For example, a tarmac road in Butula of hardly 30 kilometres has taken over eight years to construct. Even then, it has not been done half way. I would imagine that before such projects are undertaken, money The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
is set aside and there is already a budget for it. Why should it take eight years and not get completed? We need to address those issues squarely.
(Hon. (Ms.) Shebesh): Thank you. Hon Junet, Member for Suna East.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this Motion on the 18th Report of PIC. I would like to thank the Committee for presenting this very important Report for the purposes of this House to adopt. As the Members are aware, parastatals are investments that the Government makes on behalf of Kenyans. But when you look at the trend since Independence, Chief Executive Officers, boards of directors and chairmen look for positions in those parastatals basically for looting and nothing else. Reports have been done time and again since Independence, indicting many officers and CEOs for malpractices in the parastatals that they head. It looks like no serious action has been taken that could deter those people from looting public resources. If you look at this Report, it contains bad things and gross crimes that have been committed against the Kenyan people. Their properties, money and wealth has been looted. There are cases of illegal occupation of land belonging to corporations. Those parastatals work on behalf of Kenyans. For example, the National Water Conservation and Pipeline Corporation and Kenya Agricultural and Livestock Research have lost prime parcels of land in many parts of this country. Those parcels of land have been taken by people for their selfish use and gains. If you also look at the issue of irregular disposal of property, you will remember that the Kenya National Assurance Company was one of the biggest insurance companies in East Africa, as has been said by the Chairman of PIC. It was first mismanaged, run down and later, when it went under receivership, they continued looting it. Properties of high value belonging to that Corporation in very good places like Nairobi and Mombasa were sold for a song without due regard of evaluation reports. Those properties are found in Muthaiga, Kibagare Warehouse in Loresho and Mua Park in Mombasa Road and Nyali Manager’s House in Mombasa. All those properties were sold at less their worth value. Unless action is taken against the perpetrators of this crime, this country will continue losing money even today as I speak. If somebody looted properties of Kenyans in 2011/2012 and no action was taken, what will deter a person who is working for the current institution from doing the same? He knows that the guys who looted before him went scot-free. He will say: “I am not going to get out of this institution empty-handed.” If the guy who was ahead of him got money, why would he not do the same thing, so that when he goes home, he will have something in his pocket? Unless action is taken on these reports, I do not think any solution will be found to curb corruption. The biggest problems that this country is facing at the moment are ethnicity and corruption. Most of the insecurity that you are seeing is aided by corruption. People who are in charge of handling security matters get compromised through corruption. Unless those people are prosecuted and action is taken against them, we will not find a solution to this problem. When the Kenya National Assurance Company was put under receivership, the receiver manager collected money amounting to Kshs.3 billion. He ended up giving back The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
a paltry Kshs.7 million in the year 2001, when the Kenya National Assurance Company 2001 was formed. So, the receiver managers looted Kshs3 billion and nobody has been taken to court over that matter. There are investments the Government is making on non-performing organisations. An example is the National Social Security Fund. Those are public funds; workers’ money that is being collected and somebody invests Kshs1 billion in form of securities with Discount Securities and ends up losing Kshs1.2 billion. As we speak, nobody has been held responsible for that crime. It is amazing. It can never happen in any other part of the world. It is only here in Kenya where you steal, go home to sleep and you are glorified and become a big man. That is the irony of this country. The other issue is the Kenya Pipeline Company which spent over Kshs.846 million on capacity building only. It is as if they never went to school and they were being taught what to do. They even ended up using over Kshs4 million to go for a trip to China so that they could be taught what to do. What are you learning from China for Kshs4 million that you do not know? This is wastage of public funds. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, the Triton Petroleum Company Scandal was the biggest petroleum scandal that has ever happened in the East African region, where Kshs.7 billion was lost. Nobody has been held accountable for that crime to date. Even banks almost lost their monies and the guy who was running the company ran away. The Kenya Pipeline Corporation lost a lot of money and to date, nobody has been held accountable, despite it being the biggest scandal of that year. This Report contains many irregularities that have been committed by many parastatals. Unless the Committee on Implementation does its work after the House has adopted this Report, this country will always lose money in grand corruption that takes place. It is high time Reports, especially from the Standing Committees - the Public Accounts Committee and the Public Investments Committee - are taken very seriously and implemented to the letter. This is because there are recommendations that have been made to the relevant authorities, like the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission and the Criminal Investigation Department. They should do their work with speed after the House adopts this Report. They are using taxpayers’ money to do their job. This country is suffering from institutions that have refused to function and yet, they have been given constitutional mandates. They have been funded properly through taxpayers’ money and yet, they have just refused to do their job. An institution has been charged with the responsibility of implementing the recommendations of the National Assembly, but instead of doing its job, it just puts the Report on the shelf as though nothing has happened. That encourages people who want to loot public funds. Those who steal say:- “If the people before me in 2012 stole and nothing happened, why should I also not steal?” That is the game that everybody is playing.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, institutions are really letting down this country and it is high time we put them on notice. There should be timelines on the implementation of these reports. Otherwise, taxpayers will continue losing their money and they will have no refuge other than to go down. They will have lost hope in all institutions that have been put in place. With those few remarks, I beg to support. Thank you. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Thank you. That is very well spoken. Next on my request list is the hon. Member for Limuru Constituency, hon. J.K Chege.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to support this Report. Before I give my few comments, let me take this opportunity to send condolences to the people of Mandera and, indeed, all the people who have been affected by those senseless killings of the people of Kenya. We stand with the families and friends of the victims. The enemies of this country should know that when something like this happens, Kenya gathers together and becomes much stronger to deal with the enemy. As I stand to support this Report, I would like to say that when you look at the various reports that have been done by PIC, which I am a member, there is something we have found that is consistent over the years. If you track down the theft of public funds in the parastatals, you will find that the way people steal, cover-up and use the resources to make sure that they get into other projects, is the same. When you look at some of the parastatals that have been mentioned by our colleagues, they have been having problems and they have lost money. This nation has been unable to move ahead because of some selfish individuals who think that if they enrich themselves, this country can move forward. However, we know that money cannot buy the future of this nation. It is Kenyans who have the responsibility to make sure that we have a country that has opportunities and those people who do fair work can be fairly rewarded. My colleagues have also mentioned about the theft of public land. I stand here knowing that a lot of public land was stolen in Tigoni area of Limuru. Reports were written but nothing happened. The stolen land has since been converted to other uses and some has been sold. You wonder the exact purpose of us writing reports which nobody takes action on. One way the public has lost money is through projects. Some of the projects that have been undertaken by various parastatals are designed to steal money from the public. The specifications given through the execution of those projects is designed that at the end, the public will not benefit. My colleagues have talked about the Kenya Pipeline Corporation. We know, in the capacity building project, there were installations of what was said to be pumps, which were never commissioned. Even today, we are spending a lot of money again on doing a pipeline. However, nobody speaks of what will be the purpose of those pumps that were once acquired and never commissioned. In fact, we do not know how they will be disposed off, if at all they will. There are a lot of variations on projects which, sometimes, are not necessary. However, they are all aimed at making sure that projects are expensive and that the percentage that people have to give is higher depending on the total value of the money for the project. There are a lot of projects that have stalled. Through stalling of those projects, the public ends up spending a lot of money and losing the services that are intended to be rendered from them. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I can say, for example, there is a road in my constituency and Kikuyu Constituency; the Thogoto-Gikambura-Mutarakwa Road. It is about 30 Kilometres and Kshs.1.4 billion has been spent on that project. Yet, if you go The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
there, there is nothing that has been done. That is over six years now. The losses that this country continues to incur over those kinds of projects is unacceptable. One of the things that you find is that there are those people who place people in certain positions of power in parastatals or appointments in boards with the intention of making use of them. They then deliver the stolen funds from those parastatals. My plea is that, as we go forward, those reports should be taken seriously and the implementation be done to make sure that for those people who are mentioned, action is taken. That way, people will have hope in us and, particularly, the hon. Members in this Eleventh Parliament. Even as we now look at the current issues, people will look at what has been done in the past and they can be assured that things will be better. I want to say that there have been many cases that have been mentioned of people who have been known to have stolen money. Recommendations have been made but nothing happens. You even wonder whether the monies that have been stolen are used for cover-up. Is it that those people who have stolen cannot be touched because they have money? I believe this House has the responsibility to make sure that it does not matter how important or how rich one is; the interest of this nation will always be safeguarded. With those few remarks, I support this Report.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): You support the Report. Very well spoken!
Thank you, Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this important subject on accounts of State corporations. I want to thank the Chairman and hon. Members of the Public Investments Committee (PIC) of this Parliament for tabling this Report. While thanking the Chairman of PIC, I also want to take this opportunity to thank the Chairman of Public Accounts Committee (PAC) for tabling, this afternoon, three consecutive accounts for the past three financial years. Going by what he said, and being a Member of the Committee, come March, 2015, we will be tabling the accounts for the 2013 Financial Year, which will enable revenue sharing to use the latest accounts. I want to mention that the issues that have been raised in this Report, as much as they look like old, are alive. They are alive in the sense that what we are witnessing in public investments by way of parastatals has been serious corruption going on over the years. We have realized that reports after reports that have been tabled, subsequent recommendations have never been implemented. You realise that there has been serious looting of property by way of land or by way of housing. If you look at parastatals like the Kenya National Assurance (KNA) Company which was a very big insurance company in Kenya, it had many properties spread throughout this country. But it remains a shell. Another example is the Kenya Railways Corporation. The KR has been a big institution and had a lot of assets in the past years but, as we speak, it has been privatised and it has gone through a lot of metamorphosis. It is a shell in itself. I would like to suggest that going by the reports and recommendations that have been made by various Parliamentary Committees--- We have come up with a new Constitution, trying to address the issues of corruption both at Ministries, departments and parastatals, but it seems that the new Constitution has not helped either. The Government has come up with other systems like wealth declarations where public servants are supposed to declare their wealth so that they are able to account how they got The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
their wealth. This has not helped either. The Constitution itself provides in Article 226(5) that if somebody presides over misuse of funds, the person should be held liable and should make good the laws, whether he remains in office or not. I want to thank the PIC for naming individuals; naming directors and naming Chief Executive Officers (CEOs) of those institutions which have been riddled with corruption. I recommend that institutions like the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC) and the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) should take up those recommendations by Parliamentary Committees and implement them to the letter so that we set serious precedent for those who will come later as CEOs, so that this country can continue to grow and create wealth for this nation. We have also witnessed corruption in those parastatals in the area of procurement, where prices for both goods and services have always remained high and exorbitant beyond normal market prices. We have also witnessed contract variations; variations that are not within the limits; variations that are intended to loot. I would like to conclude by saying that let this Parliament implement the recommendations given by PIC. On my own, I will be recommending that governments should not be investing in parastatals. They should actually disinvest because it is not the role of government to do business; they are supposed to be service providers. So, I recommend that we should do little business so that we only invest in areas of strategic importance. Institutions like EACC and DPP should take their work seriously; take those reports and implement them accordingly. As I conclude, I think going forward, the appointments of such CEOs and directors should be subjected to serious vetting so that we can get people with good moral standing and who are willing to drive this country forward. Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Thank you, Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this chance to contribute to this Motion in terms of the adoption of the Report of PIC. From the word go, I want to support the adoption of the Report. That is because this Report documents very important findings in terms of what is happening in our parastatals. We are all aware that parastatals provide the opportunity or the channel through which the Government invests. In an ideal situation, if we get it right in terms of investments, this country will achieve sustainable development through those institutions. Unfortunately, when you read reports, you really get concerned with the kind of findings that are coming out from the investigations.
If you look at most of these reports, there is a bit of a historical trend in terms of the findings. You can see there are a lot of common findings year in, year out. Looking at what we are discussing, these were reports of the Tenth Parliament. We are now in the 11th Parliament. The question you would want to ask yourself is: In terms of value addition and with these kinds of reports we are discussing now, will it be adding value to what is happening to the economy today? What I am saying is that we need to think seriously about a mechanism in which we can bring some of these reports up to date. I just want to make a proposal, maybe, for the future; if it can work. For example, if you call the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of Kenyatta National Hospital (KNH), why do we not just look at the latest report from the Auditor-General (A-G) in terms of that parastatal and, from the latest report, work The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
backwards with that CEO and clear all the reports? This is because when you look at the findings, they are all the same. Actually, I sympathize with our Public Investments Committee (PIC). I am worried that we may be here discussing a report of a CEO who retired about five or six years ago and because our life expectancy is not very high, that character might even have died. Then you ask yourself: Why are we discussing a recommendation saying “prosecute this character”, who is already somewhere in a grave? What do you do as the Chair? You get very frustrated. We need to seriously think of how we can make these reports add value to us as a country. I think we have some lessons to learn when we read these reports. One of the things is what happens with the budgeting process. You realize that as we award resources to those parastatals, it is just a one line item in most cases. We say a grant of Kshs.3 billion or a grant of Kshs.100 million. We really do not take time to look at how we are going to use that money in terms of investments. I think it should be very clear to Kenyans what kind of investments are going to be done using the resources we are allocating to the parastatals. In that case, we will be able to interrogate whether the investments which are going to be undertaken will actually help this country grow. Generally, if you invest, you expect to make more money or make more income in terms of what you are doing and then you grow. I do not think we are realizing that. I think we need to start by asking hard questions like: If we are giving a parastatal Kshs.100million and it is supposed to invest, how much of that money is going to recurrent expenditure? That is because if you are given Kshs.100million and you find that Kshs.90 million is going to recurrent, why should that institution not be scrapped? That is why I want to support the idea of the reforms that have just been proposed by PIC. It is now the right time to consider some of the reforms and implement them in our parastatals. That way, parastatals that are not making any contribution in terms of improving the lives of Kenyans can actually be done away with or merged. We should remain with a few parastatals that are really contributing to our economic growth. The other thing we need to realize is worshipping corruption. I think Kenyans also need to rise to the occasion because most of them believe that when you are made a CEO of a parastatal and you leave that parastatal not as excessively rich but as what I will call reasonably rich and you go to your rural area, they will start pointing at you saying: “Look at this bagger. We gave him a very good position and he has come home a poor man.” In that case, what are we telling those CEOs? We are telling them that any time you get a public appointment it is your time to “eat”. That is why you see that when those people go there, they loot the institutions and, by the time they come out, the corporations are actually collapsing. So, even as Kenyans, it is high time we started questioning how people are accumulating their wealth because that is also affecting our politics. If you come to the rural setting and you have money that you are dishing out to people every day, people will start calling you a hero. They do not ask a hard question like: How have you made your money? I am imagining Kenyans asking the hard question: “How have you made your money?” In that situation we will ask you: “Can you tell us how you accumulated your wealth because you were employed this month or year, you have worked for ten years and we can analyze your salary for the ten years and yet, you are The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
worth ten times your salary?” In that way, we will actually have started doing the right work. I also think it is high time our Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission, which is in charge of matters to do with corruption, pulls up its socks. That is because this institution has been allocated money to make sure that when a report like the one we are discussing has made recommendations they take action. That way, these reports will be seen to be important. Otherwise, Kenyans actually laugh at us when we take time to discuss these reports and they do not see anything coming out of them. We have discussed them year in, year out and the question is: For how long are we going to continue discussing these reports? Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am imagining that even for us to encourage the Chairman and the Committee to work hard and make sure that they go to the extent of producing more of these reports; we need to see action being taken so that these reports are not seen as routine. That is because immediately the reports are seen as routine, they will never be taken seriously. People will come to the parastatals, loot and then go home. Others will come and loot and go home. What happens is that once some of them go home, they will find their way round to where we are today. They are then able to defend their past because they are here and are legislating. It thus becomes a cycle and very difficult to get corruption out of our way. Since it seems like all Kenyans have agreed that corruption is a serious problem in this country, I think some of these reports should be a starting point. I am imagining if we see the senior-most guys in the parastatals being taken to court and prosecuted on matters of corruption, then we will be helping this country. As I conclude, I also want to just propose that the Chairman considers what I said earlier. Since most of these findings are common from one year to another, he could consider just dealing with one parastatal up to the current report. In that case, you can do away with the backlog and you will be up to date with the reports. That will help this country and also help us as a Parliament to do our oversight role. With those remarks, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I want to support the adoption of this important Report. Thank you.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): Thank you. I will have one more request. Of course, I have one more request from the Member from Manyatta Constituency, hon. John Nyaga. I will then call upon the Mover to reply. Proceed, hon. John Nyaga.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to add my voice. I am a member of PIC. I wish to take this opportunity to thank my able Chairman for having steered the Committee very well so far since we elected him as its Chairman. It is unfortunate that many people who have been given the responsibility to run our parastatals decide to enrich themselves by using them. You will find that after looting those parastatals, most of them wait for the general elections. They come, contest and are elected. Some of them are Members of Parliament and some of them are in high profile offices. It has, therefore, become routine that these reports are done and yet nothing is done. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I think the Committee on Implementation is not doing its work properly. You will find that there is a public company where an inquiry was conducted by the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Co- operatives in the Tenth Parliament and hon. Mututho was its Chairman. That is the Kenya Planters Co-operative Union (KPCU). Nothing has happened to those people who have looted that company up to date. Therefore, I also request that Parliament be tough with these reports. Once they are done, they should not gather dust in the shelves. If you check the wastage in parastatals, most of their money is wasted on procurement of services, vehicles and properties. If that money is recouped, it can actually be committed even to security, which all of us are crying that it is wanting. I would, therefore, request that this Parliament and the Government becomes tough on people who are mentioned when it comes to misuse of Government property. If you go to many counties including Nairobi, you will find many civil servants in high profile estates. However, if you ask them how they got that wealth, no one will be able to account. Many of them were Chief Executive Officers (CEOs) in parastatals. However, time has now come with the new Constitution that one has to account for each and every action taken when in a position of responsibility. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I rest my case here and I support this Report. Thank you.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): You support. Hon. Members, I, therefore, call upon the Mover to reply. The Mover is the Chairperson of the Public Investments Committee (PIC), hon. Keynan.
Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I note the sentiments of the Members and, in particular, what has been suggested by my good friend, hon. Makali. That is what we are doing right now as a Committee. Clearing the backlog is not an easy job. It requires a lot of sacrifice. For the last 15 months that we have been Members of this House and by extension members of this Committee, we have decided to work around the clock to make sure that those who will be privileged to be Members of the 12th Parliament and by extension, of this Committee will have less work to do, just like what hon. Khalwale did for members of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC). In the last Parliament, hon. Khalwale worked very hard and cleared the backlog. Today, what PAC is dealing with is just the years of 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014. It is achievable. This is what we are attempting to do. Secondly, for those of us who participated in drafting the new Standing Orders, there is a critical committee called the Committee on Implementation. It is supposed to pick all the reports that have been adopted by this House. One of these days, we will be asking the Committee on Implementation to share with us all the reports they have attempted to implement. There are timelines in the implementation of these reports. For instance, in this particular Report, some of these entities are supposed to report within two or three months. That is supposed to be ascertained by the implementation arm of Parliament, which is the Committee on Implementation. Our first function as a Legislature or as Members of Parliament is to safeguard public investments and properly play our oversight role. This is not possible if we exercise oversight and do nothing on wastage of public resources or incidences of The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
corruption. My fear is that we have had a number of missed opportunities over the last 50 years since we got our Independence. If we do not pull up our socks, I fear the same trend that ensured that we remained an undeveloped nation or a struggling member of the Third World will still remain rampant. These issues must be confronted. It requires courage. It is not something that somebody who wants to operate from an area of comfort can easily do. It requires courage and a lot of determination. I want to plead with Members of the House that these reports are critical. Our forefathers, in attempting to come up with these two critical investigatory committees of PIC and PAC, had an idea of what they wanted. Those ideas must still remain alive. You know positions change. I remember one of the CEOs who appeared before PIC on Thursday was a former Chairman of the Committee. The same person was a Minister and a Member of Parliament. Going through some of the things that we felt were prudent for the Committee, the CEO was somehow lost on what we expected the Committee to achieve with the interaction we were having with him. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I also want to appeal to the House Business Committee (HBC): We have two investigatory committees of PAC and PIC whose reports should be prioritized. These are the two key oversight committees that deal with audit issues. It is, therefore, only fair that their reports are prioritized. I want to plead with the House, especially the leadership of the House that we have about four Reports of PIC pending, including the one that we have tabled today. There are reports on the privatisation of Telkom Kenya and the Kenya Oil Refineries, on the Kenya Bureau of Standards (KEBS) office block, on the Tassia Project by the National Social Security Fund (NSSF) and on the procurement of consultancy services by the Kenya Railways Corporation (KRC). All those Reports address critical investment issues pertaining to those particular entities. It is my prayer that those Reports are fast-tracked so that the taxpayers can get value for their money. With those remarks, I want to take this opportunity to thank the Members. I know today was a very interesting and busy day. I want to wind up by saying thank you. I beg to move. Thank you, hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
(Hon. (Ms.) Mbalu): You beg to Move. Hon. Members, we are not in a position to put the Question. I order that the Question be put in the next sitting at the most appropriate time. Members, Order Nos. 14, 15 and 16 will stand deferred. They will be debated in the next sitting at the most appropriate time.