Can we have the Quorum Bell rung?
Ring the Quorum Bell for five more minutes.
Hon. Members, we can now transact business.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to present this public Petition by the concerned residents of Kathiani Constituency on non-completion of the Mumbuni-Kathiani Road.
I, the undersigned, on behalf of the concerned residents of Kathiani Constituency, draw the attention of the House to the following:-
THAT, an elaborate and well maintained road network is an essential infrastructural establishment for facilitating access to social amenities, spurring socio-economic development and opening up regions for investment;
THAT, the Mumbuni-Kathiani Road, a key road link in Kathiani Constituency, has been in a dilapidated state that has adversely affected socio-economic activities;
THAT, a contract for rehabilitation of the said road was awarded in 2012 and construction works commenced thereafter;
THAT, the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructure undertook to rehabilitate the road and complete it by December 2014 and yet almost four years later, works on the said road have stalled;
THAT, the contractor has since moved construction equipment and machinery from the site of construction, thus dashing residents’ hopes of the said road ever being completed; The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
THAT, the inordinate delay in rehabilitating the road has exposed the incomplete section to erosion while the already tarmacked section has developed potholes, thereby making the project a waste of public resources;
THAT, efforts to resolve the matter with the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructure has not borne any fruit; and,
THAT, the matter in respect of which this Petition is raised is not pending before any court of law or constitutional body.
Therefore, your humble petitioners pray that the National Assembly, through the Departmental Committee on Transport, Public Works and Housing:- (i) investigates the reason for the inordinate delays in the completion of the said road; (ii) establishes when the works will resume and the timeline within which the said rehabilitation shall be concluded to ease transportation and enhance safety and make any other order or direction that it may deem fit in the circumstances of the plight of the petitioners. And your petitioners will forever pray.
Hon. Kathuri Murungi, do you want to support the Petition?
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I want to support my brother and colleague, Hon. Mbui, on his Petition on the Mumbuni-Kathiani Road. This is one of several roads in the country which were started some years back, but which are yet to be completed. When the Departmental Committee on Transport, Public Works and Housing sits to look into this issue, and summon the Ministry concerned, they should look across the country because there are so many roads in respect of which contracts were given in 2012, 2013 and 2014, but which are still incomplete. We are constructing new roads while other roads are still pending.
I will table a similar matter tomorrow on a road in my constituency, called Nkubu- Mikumbune Road, in respect of which contract was given, but is still not completed. The road is being eroded. With those remarks, I beg to support the Petition and thank the petitioners for raising this matter in the House.
Hon. Wamunyinyi, do you want to contribute?
I do not want to contribute to this Petition.
Okay, let us have Hon. F. K. Wanyonyi.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, as I wait for the real Motion to come, I want to support the Petition by my colleague. Something is happening to local contractors. He is not the first one. We have other cases. I do not know whether the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructure is vetting contractors properly. A road in my constituency was given to a local contractor who is taking too long to complete it. He abandons the road and leaves the equipment there to rot. Sometimes he removes the equipment from the site. This particular case is not unique. The Ministry should come out clearly on who should monitor road construction projects. If local contractors are unable to handle the volume of work given, vetting should be done, so that the right contractors get the jobs. I find it hard to accept the fact that there is a problem. We just have to take the bull by the horns. I support.
Hon. Sunjeev, is your contribution on this one?
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to support my fellow Member’s Petition. Just yesterday, the Committee on Implementation was following up a Petition I had The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
submitted to the Departmental Committee on Transport, Public Works and Housing over one year-and-a-half ago on a similar matter on the Maasai Road ABC in Industrial Areas in Nairobi. To cut the long story short, there are many problems, corruption and unanswered questions that lie underneath the truth of the matter of petitions like this.
Even as the Petition is responded to, the real reason why the road has not been completed must be reviewed. Money that has not been transferred to the relevant Ministries must be accounted for.
That Petition should then be forwarded to the Departmental Committee on Transport, Public Works and Housing. Hon. Injendi, what is your intervention?
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I wish to raise something on the Floor of the House that I consider to be of national importance. In April this year, the Cabinet Secretary (CS) for Land, Housing and Urban Development dissolved all land control boards countrywide. As you are aware, many people rely on land transacting businesses in terms of sale and purchase, but cannot now earn their livelihood. The CS did a memorandum to sub-county commissioners to nominate persons to the land control boards about two months ago, but these boards have not been constituted.
I am wondering what the CS is doing in terms of constituting these land control boards to ensure that persons who rely on land business continue to earn their livelihoods and take their children to school.
Thank you, Hon. Injendi. The only issue is that I do not think that is a Statement. It is more of a question that could be directed to the CS. We have a method to do that. If you can quickly formulate your Question and hand it to the Leader of the Majority Party, he can find a way of making the CS of Land, Housing and Urban Development come and address the very grave issues you have raised in the House today.
No one was on the Floor.
On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker.
I can see Hon. Gumbo has a point of order. What is your point of order?
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I appreciate this Motion before the House as it is being debated. Benefiting from memory and having been here in the last Parliament, there was a time when this House, in its wisdom, formed a Select Committee headed by the then Member for Marakwet West, Hon. Boaz Kaino. I was a Member of that Committee. We went throughout the country looking at the issue of cattle rustling. We came up with a report, which in my view, captured almost all the issues we are about to tackle in this Motion. I was just wondering because this again goes to the heart of the problems we are having with Motions that we bring here. That Report was adopted and it tackled all these issues even the ways and what to do to deal with the menace of cattle rustling. We even engaged international experts on this issue. I was just wondering whether if a report has been adapted by the House and it captures the same things that we are talking about, what will become of this good Motion that Hon. Cheptumo has brought? Will it not start to look like Motions, even the good ones that we bring to this House---
I do not know why you are not very audible, Engineer? Is it because you are too tall for the microphone?
I slept late and I did not eat well, Hon. Deputy Speaker.
I was saying, in a nutshell, that this matter was covered in a more comprehensive way in the 10th Parliament. That report is available in the archives of Parliament. Would it not be better, before we go ahead to discuss this Motion, to be told what happened to the implementation of the recommendations of that Select Committee? I was in that Committee and we went around. We even went to Garissa County. We engaged the community there for whatever it was worth. I do not know why we were there. We went to Garissa, Tana River, Marakwet, Turkana, Pokot and Kuria. The issues that were covered are the issues that are being talked about here. So, what happens when we seem not to implement resolutions of this House and we keep going to the same matters that this House has pronounced itself on?
The Leader of the Majority Party.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I totally agree with Hon. Gumbo. But Garissa is not an area prone to cattle rustling. The only two communities among the pastoralists that do not engage any more in cattle rustling are the Maasais and the Somalis because we have realised that we have better things to do including increasing our numbers in Parliament and to be part of the Government.
I agree that the terms of reference of this Motion are different. The Motion in the 10th Parliament never spoke about declaring cattle rustling a national disaster. That Motion that established the Select Committee never spoke of creating a special fund for internally displaced persons. In context, this Motion by Hon. Cheptumo is fundamentally different from that of the The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Select Committee. I am sure, as Hon. Gumbo said, once we pass this one, we can condense it with that of the 10th Parliament and see how to implement both reports.
That is a good way forward. The other thing, of course, is to ask our Members how much they research on their Motions before they decide on which ones to bring. Is it the responsibility of the Member or is it the responsibility of the staff to guide the Member on issues they bring before them whether or not it is one which has been dealt with and that they could just go to the archives and pick the documents and inform themselves on what they need to do? There seems to be a mismatch. We need to look properly at the people who propose these legislative proposals and the ones that are charged with ensuring that we do not repeat ourselves or do it for the sake of it.
As the Leader of the Majority Party has said, maybe, there is a special twist to this. But I also urge Hon. Cheptumo to study the Report. You may have been part of the original Select Committee because you were also in the 10th Parliament. Nonetheless, for the benefit of those who were not in the 10th Parliament and who may not have read that Report, we can allow Members to debate the Motion.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I hope the Leader of the Majority Party would allow me to inform the House.
Yes, just inform the House.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, it is true there is no cattle rustling in Garissa. We went to Garissa to see how the elders and the communities there have resolved inter-clan conflicts. That aspect of our visit to Garissa was very useful because we saw how elders were able to come together. We were trying to use it because part of the reason why we have a cattle rustling menace in this country is because of hostilities between communities. Garissa was used as a model of how elders and communities have come together. I want to inform Hon. Duale that we met members of the village peace committees. We saw how we can replicate those village peace committees in the whole country. We did not go there to look at cattle rustling per se, but to find solutions on how to tackle the cattle rustling menace.
Can we allow Members to contribute? I can see some interventions by Hon. Kangongo and Hon. Nakara. Do you want to contribute? If you do, you have to let the other Members who requested to contribute much earlier than you did to do so. Are you intervening on a different matter? Do you just want to contribute? Then you will have to wait as there are Members who had put in requests before you. Hon. Wafula Wamunyinyi was the first one on my list.
Thank you very much, Hon. Deputy Speaker for giving me a chance to contribute on this Motion. I note the comment by my colleague, Hon. Gumbo, and the response by the Leader of the Majority Party. This House is mandated to legislate. Hon. Cheptumo is quite in order in bringing this Motion. This House urges the Government to declare cattle rustling a national disaster and establish a special fund to be used in mitigating the losses suffered by and compensating all the victims of cattle rustling and resettle all IDPs across the country created by the menace. Cattle rustling has a huge impact on the people. They not only suffer injuries in the course of the attacks, but also lose lives. When mature members of the community, particularly the middle-aged, who provide security, lose their lives, there are others who are affected such as wives and children. A lot of suffering is recognised by Hon. Cheptumo in bringing this Motion. There is also the aspect of destruction caused by attacks. Police stations and institutions are The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
destroyed. Sometimes schools are burned down. Many negative effects arise from cattle rustling. We should have necessary plans and mechanisms in place to deal with the menace. One of the things that I wanted to talk about, which also ought to be given serious consideration, is the aspect of security. We have had difficulties in our country, particularly in the Rift Valley. You remember the recent case of Baragoi which is still fresh in our minds. Many people were killed including security officers, policemen and normal citizens. Losses were suffered in the attack. It is important that the Government takes measures to improve security in those areas by having more police stations and more specialised personnel to deal with this issue including the Anti-Stock Theft Unit (ASTU) personnel. Importantly, specialised personnel is not adequate in our country. We only have a few ASTU police officers in the areas that are prone to cattle rustling. The Government needs to enhance security measures in those areas by establishing more police stations, providing more specialised personnel and increasing surveillance. Recently, the Government acquired some helicopters which are used for surveillance at night. This equipment should be used in those areas to ensure that this menace is stopped. Hon. Gumbo referred to some areas in our country where the elders-system is still working. In Baringo, we encourage elders from the different communities that engage in cattle rustling to sit down and talk to each other, so that this menace is eradicated. It is a shame that we are still talking about cattle rustling in this era. This is something which ought to have been stopped. As we move forward, we should improve our lives. People are getting educated. We are engaging in farming and different activities in our country to move a step forward in development. Going back to rustling, which is something that took place many years ago, is a shame. We have a responsibility, as the leadership of this country to stop this practice. One of the things that we should recommend, apart from establishing a fund and declaring this a national disaster, is for communities to establish mechanisms to abolish this menace. Elders of different communities should talk to each other to ensure that they narrow down their differences. People should be encouraged to engage in other businesses. They should not think about cattle alone. Those guys wanted to move to Bungoma and take our cows. They were claiming that it is mboga . This is not mboga . When our neighbours, the Pokots, stole cattle in Trans Nzoia, they said they were going for mboga. This is something which must be checked. I congratulate Hon. Cheptumo for pushing forward this Motion. People suffer trauma like I said earlier. The attacks are normally serious. After the raiders leave, the victims do not normally believe what happened. It is just like terror attacks. As we enhance the war on terror, we must also deal with the cattle rustling menace. I support this Motion and commend Hon. Cheptumo and ask my colleagues to support the Motion. The only issue I wanted to raise is the fact that this is an ordinary Motion. It only urges the Government. I am not sure how we want to move forward to ensure that this is implemented. It is a very good Motion and it should go a long way in helping our people. With those few remarks, I support the Motion.
Let us have Hon. Florence Kajuju.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the Motion be amended by inserting the following words:- (a) “Meru County” immediately after the phrase “North Rift regions”; and, (b) “defiled/rape victims” immediately after the phrase “orphaned children”. Hon. Deputy Speaker, the reason for seeking to make this amendment, with your approval is that Meru County, on the eastern of Mount Kenya, has suffered a lot of cattle rustling The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
in five out of its nine constituencies. This is because of its neighbourhood. It is important that this is reflected. As we sit, there is a petition before the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security on issues of insecurity in Meru. For this Motion to be more comprehensive and inclusive, it is important that women are heard. They are the ones who suffer when there is cattle rustling. I have had instances in Meru where women are raped and children defiled. It is of concern that gender is not factored in this Motion. When we speak about cattle rustling, we cannot just speak about loss of life or destruction of property without looking at other victims of cattle rustling, namely women and children. They suffer a lot of mental torture, anguish and pain. In the course of setting up a special fund, it is important we specifically mention and indicate that women and children are victims of cattle rustling. The amendment does not change the substance of the Motion. I pray that Hon. Sunjeev Birdi seconds its. Of course, I have the support of my leader and boss, the handsome Hon. Aden Duale.
On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker.
Yes, Leader of the Majority Party.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, did you hear what Hon. (Ms.) Kajuju said? She has said that she has the support of the handsome Leader of the Majority Party. We are in the Holy Month. Some of these things are not supposed to be said during this time because they will affect my fast. Can you order that statement to be expunged from the HANSARD? Hon. Kajuju can say those things after the 7th of July 2016, when Ramadan is over. For now, I take it as very offensive.
I am sure it was said with a light touch. Hon. (Ms.) Kajuju, do you have a seconder?
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I second. Let me reiterate that it is a historical fact that children and women are affected.
On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker.
What is it, Hon. Tiyah?
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. It would be very sad for us to personalise issues of cattle rustling to Meru County only. Cattle rustling is a national disaster. It affects all counties across the country.
Can you wait for the Motion to be seconded, so that you can make your comments?
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I understand that there is a lot of interest in this Motion. I just second by saying that it is historically proven that children and women are the most vulnerable people in war incidences. I understand why Hon. Kajuju has brought up this matter. I second.
Leader of the Majority Party, let us give a chance to Hon. Tiyah. She had started contributing. Hon. (Ms.) T.G. Ali, only address yourself to the amendment.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I stand to oppose the amendment. This amendment is targeting Meru County only. Cattle rustling is a national disaster The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
because it affects people all over the country. It is important we look at it nationally instead of dealing with it as if it affects only one county. My county neighbours Meru County. While I support the issue of gender, it should have a national outlook. I oppose.
Hon. Marcus Muluvi, what do you have to say?
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I thank you very much for the opportunity. I oppose the amendment. What Hon. Cheptumo had done had included other regions. The reason I did not bring an amendment is because I thought Kitui County and other regions are captured. To single out Meru County and leave out counties like Tana River and Kitui is being selfish. It is unacceptable. I oppose.
Leader of the Majority Party, do you want to comment on the amendment?
Yes, Hon. Deputy Speaker.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I oppose. Every community in Kenya is known for something. The Ameru are known for cultivating miraa . The people of western Kenya are known for sugarcane farming. The people of the lake are known for fishing while those in the Rift Valley are known for dairy, maize and tea farming, together with their friends from central Kenya. The people of the coastal region are known for dealing in mnazi and fishing. The people I represent are known for livestock keeping and cattle rustling. The word “cattle” in “cattle rustling” refers to those who keep cattle. If you grow miraa, how do you do cattle rustling?
Hon. Leader of the Majority Party, you are going to raffle feathers. I can see the Ameru are up in arms. Tamper your comment.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, allow me to speak because everybody was heard. Before you do cattle rustling, you must rear cattle, camels, goats and sheep in large scale. I agree with Major Muluvi. I understand him because he neighbours pastoralists. There is serious rustling going on in Kitui and Turkana counties and in Baringo County, where Hon. Cheptumo comes from. This Motion is specific and important. To my knowledge, cattle rustling is historical and a bit cultural. It is part of the initiation process of boys into manhood in some communities. In such communities, one is not complete unless he goes and steals cattle. That is why different communities have different traits. These traits may be height and even physique. This matter, as it is being dealt with in this Motion in as far as setting up a special fund and making it a national disaster is concerned, is peculiar to certain regions and communities. I live in Kiambu County where there is no rustling. You will agree there is serious cattle rustling if you live in Isiolo among the Borana, the Samburu and the Turkana people. If you go to the Pokot, the Turkana and the Karamojong, you will find this practice. This practice is regional. There are communities in Ethiopia which engage in cattle rustling.
The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
In this Motion, we are saying that it is now important for national security apparatus and the Government to see this as a national issue. Hon. Cheptumo is saying that this should be discussed at a higher level. He is up-scaling this insecurity issue to a level of national security. Secondly, he is saying that we should let the National Assembly appropriate certain funds like we have done for IDPs, so that when Hon. Munuve from Kitui County has cattle rustling issues with his neighbours Hon. Wario, Hon. Dukicha and myself, this can be dealt with. When it rains a lot, pastoralists misbehave. If you read the history of pastoralists, when it rains, their animals increase and fatten. That is when they do their weddings and boys feel they have reached manhood. So they go and apply the art of cattle rustling, for example, to their neighbours in Kitui County and create destruction. Internally displaced persons are created and people are killed. That is why we are saying that we need a fund. In fact, somebody should amend this Motion and remove the word ‘urge’ and say this House resolves. When we say “urge”, it is just a talk show. Hon. Kajuju should have written “resolved”. She has brought miraa to my good friends and neighbours. They produce miraa and we consume and so, we are partners. When the British stopped buying miraa, it is us who are helping the Merus. If today we banned the chewing of
in our community, the Meru’s will have a serious problem. In fact, they should be talking to us because we might also decide not to chew miraa just like the British did and the Merus will suffer. However, we are neighbours, friends and fellow Kenyans and we will keep on chewing
. The Merus produce and we consume. I will ask one of the Members to amend the issue of “urge” and replace it with “resolve”. This House resolves to do two things, first, to make cattle rustling a national disaster so that our security apparatus can pick it up. We have lost many security men and women to the menace and it is no longer business as usual.
Leader of the Majority Party, why not do that and let us prosecute it as an amendment?
I just wanted to explain. You have seen Kapedo, Baragoi and many areas where many of our security men have died and many people have been displaced. It is a serious matter. Hon. Deputy Speaker, I can do that.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to move an amendment---
No! Leader of Majority Party, can we, please, be procedural. Let us finish with Hon. Kajuju’s amendment first.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I am finishing. I thought you know one of Hon. Kajuju’s amendments has already collapsed.
No! It has not. We have to do it procedurally.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to oppose, but support the original Motion. I ask Hon. Kajuju to forgive me today. She has started on a wrong footing this morning and I oppose.
Hon. Members, so that we do not get confused, we are only addressing the amendments by Hon. Kajuju. All of you are only talking about the first amendment. She had two amendments. Hon. Korei.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise to oppose the amendment. The Motion clearly states:- The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
“THAT, aware that cattle rustling is a major menace and security threat in the South and North Rift regions and other regions in this country---” It also states clearly “other regions”. So, bringing the issue of Meru County is selfish from my sister. I totally oppose the amendments that have been moved.
We do not want to continue for too long on the amendments. We should move to contributions on the amended Motion. I will, therefore, put the amendments to Question and then we can dispense them of and move to the Motion as amended.
( Question, that the words to be added in (a) be added,
Hon. Members, we can now proceed and debate the Motion as amended, meaning with the addition of “defiled and rape victims”. In my list, the next Member to contribute is Hon. David Kangongo.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I support the Motion by Hon. Cheptumo as amended. Let me say that cases of cattle rustling have become a big menace especially for us who come from pastoralist areas. Cattle rustling has left irreparable and negative socio-economic issues among many communities. As I speak, in Marakwet East, we are waiting to bury two people this weekend as a result of cattle rustling which happened two days ago. It is a very serious issue. We should not talk about cattle rustling casually like the Leader of the Majority Party who has said that these are young boys who go to get cows because they want to marry. Cattle rustling must be treated as robbery with violence. If someone comes to your home, takes away your animals, kills your wife, husband or children, that is robbery with violence. We should not look at it like these are young boys who are from initiation and want to get cows to pay dowry. For the last three months in Marakwet East Constituency, we have lost eight people. We still have 18 others in hospital and over 1,000 animals were taken away to Hon. Kamama’s constituency. It is very ironical that Hon. Kamama is the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security and together with his people of Tiaty Constituency, they have become a cause of insecurity across the entire North Rift.
Order, Hon. Kangongo!
What is out of order? This is very serious.
We have talked and said several times in this House and it is even under the Standing Order No.90 on declaration of interest. Hon. Kamama is the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security and Member for Tiaty Constituency and he is not cooperative on national security matters.
No! You cannot name a Member without substantiating. Hon. Kangongo, can you withdraw?
Let me substantiate, I am ready. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Order, Members! Hon. Kangongo, you cannot name a Member without substantiating what you are saying. You need to give us evidence of the claim that you are making.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I am giving evidence now. The day before yesterday, we went to the Deputy President’s Office after I lost two people on Wednesday. The Deputy President called for a meeting, which was to be attended by Senator Kipchumba Murkomen, myself and other Members, including the Member for Sigor. We were supposed to go there yesterday with the Deputy Inspector-General, Mr. Kitili. By 7.00 a.m. in the morning, we were at Wilson Airport, but we left at 12.00 p.m. When we reached Nakuru the weather was bad and, therefore, we were forced to come back. Hon. Kamama was nowhere to be seen. Even his mobile phone was off. We were supposed to have a meeting with him in his constituency because the animals were driven---
This is not a court of law. Is that enough evidence for you to make the claim?
Hon. Deputy Speaker, What I am trying to say---
Order, Hon. Kangogo! You may be having issues in your region amongst yourselves, but you cannot come here and name a Member without substantiating. The evidence you claim to have does not tell us anything. We do not know what happened to Hon. Kamama. We do not know why he did not come for that meeting. Can you just withdraw and go and sort out your issues? Please, withdraw it and go and sort it out in your region.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, I withdraw.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, what I am trying to say is that it is good for us, as we try to sort out those issues---
Hon. Members, you can see that some of those issues are very emotive for people who have serious problems with cattle rustling and the insecurity that it causes. Let us be rational and sober in our discussions.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, it has become very serious. Several schools in my constituency are closed. Children are not going to school. All primary and secondary schools are closed. If you go to those schools, you will find people who have sought refuge, effectively displacing pupils and students. You will find cows in classrooms.
Order, Hon. Members! The consultations are too high. Reduce the levels of consultations.
As we speak, the schools are closed. It is also unfortunate that this House appropriates huge amounts of money to the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government. We are not feeling that money on the ground. Most of the police stations in my constituency of Marakwet East have been built using the National Government Constituencies Development Fund ((NGCDF), but they are empty. They do not have officers. A sum of Kshs140 billion has been allocated to the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government, but you still find officers without proper equipment to tackle cattle rustlers. It is a The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
very serious concern. We are not realising any development on the ground, including security roads, which are under the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government. The Ministry is supposed to provide security roads so that the officers who patrol the area can be able to curb the cattle rustling menace. We want the Government to be serious about the issue of the cattle rustling. As I said, we need not only declare it as a national disaster, but also as robbery with violence. To stop those people from engaging in cattle rustling, there is need for the Government to open up roads in those areas. The Government must build roads and also create water points. Let them build schools so that the young people engaging in cattle rustling can go to school and engage in other meaningful development activities. If there are roads, they can engage in the
business and other businesses. We have lost a lot of money in the Office of the President (OP) in the name of procuring security equipment – with one being the Anglo Leasing scandal. In the Anglo Leasing scandal, money was lost in the name of procuring security equipment. We are not seeing any security equipment reaching the grassroots to assist our people to tackle security issues. Disarming pastoralists requires that we start from Ethiopia and go all the way to South Africa. That is because you cannot talk of disarming the Turkana, Pokot and Marakwet people when there are the Toposa in South Sudan who are also armed. The Government needs to go to the ground and make sure that there is security to those people. The reason why people are arming themselves is lack of Government presence to provide them with security in their areas. Going forward, the Motion by Hon. Cheptumo must be put together with that of Hon. Boaz Kaino, who was the Member of Parliament for Marakwet West during the 10th Parliament. This Motion has to be implemented to the letter so that the people of Marakwet East and Marakwet in general, as well as the people of Baringo, Pokot, Turkana and all the pastoralist communities in the country, can engage in other meaningful development activities, instead of engaging in activities which result in loss of lives every day. As I said, my constituency has widows and orphans because of the cattle rusting menace. With those many remarks, I support Hon. Cheptumo, who is my neighbour, and say that this Motion has to be implemented.
I give the Floor to Hon. Aghostinho Neto.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I am happy that I am speaking after Hon. Kangogo Bowen because those are the people who feel the effect of cattle rusting. My opinion is that the practice of cattle rustling is a criminal offence and it should be treated in that particular manner. There is no way you can glorify a criminal offence. I respect very much the Motion by Hon. Cheptumo, who is my Committee Chair. The things he is raising in this particular Motion are salient and strong. They need to be dealt with in a manner that goes past this particular Motion.
Hon. Neto, allow me to interrupt you for a minute to recognise the presence of Nyabisawa Girls’ Secondary School from Suna East Constituency, Migori County. You are welcome. They are in the Speaker’s Gallery. I also recognise Lwak Girls Boarding Primary School from Rarieda Constituency, Siaya County. You are welcome. We also have Angels of Mercy from Ruiru Constituency, Kiambu County and Ngelani Boys High School from Machakos Town Constituency, Machakos County. You are all welcome to the National Assembly. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
I also recognise the Members of Kitui County Assembly. They are John Mung’uye, Stephen Kithuka, Bonface Maundu Katumbi and Kennedy Mwendwa. You are all welcome to the National Assembly. Hon. Neto, you may continue.
Thank you very much, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I would like to welcome the students in the Speaker’s Gallery, especially Nyabisawa Girls Secondary School, where my sister schooled; and also Lwak Girls from Nyanza. I also welcome all the other people. As I said, cattle rustling is a criminal offence, and it ought to be treated as such. The loss of lives and property and the maiming and raping of women and the attendant destruction that cattle rustling causes ought to be dealt with within the precincts of the laws of Kenya. Also, security ought to be stepped up in the various regions that are always prone to cattle rustling. In this particular age, we need to deal with cattle rustling in a manner that will make it a thing of the past. We cannot discuss cattle rustling many years on end because it is a security issue that can be dealt with by the security apparatus. Let me say a couple of things. I think what Hon. Cheptumo raises in this particular Motion are things that have already been dealt with, within the meaning of various Kenyan laws. He speaks to the compensation of victims, schools and destruction of property. We already have a law called the Victims Protection Act, which creates a special fund that deals with the victims of various offences. I know of the suggestions that there needs to be a resolution to make cattle rustling a national disaster and also create a fund for the victims of the menace. Since there is already a law creating a fund, I would request Hon. Cheptumo to look at how best victims of cattle rustling, for example, can fit within the provisions of the Victim Protection Trust Fund, which is already created so that we only operationalise the fund to the extent that it is able to support victims of cattle rustling. The Victim Protection Act provides compensation and remedies for victims of offences such as cattle rustling. Having agreed, for example, that cattle rustling is a criminal offence and that those people’s houses are burnt, they are maimed and widowed, those are the people that need to be compensated as we deal with the crime of cattle rustling. There is already a law that creates a fund. So, this is something that can be dealt with very easily. The second thing is this: Cattle rustling creates IDPs. We also know for a fact that there is an IDP law in Kenya, which has been drawn from international conventions. That law already creates a fund within the meaning of the IDP Act. Whereas I think it is possible to debate and agree that cattle rustling is a national disaster, I think a resolution to create a special fund for it might not be the way to go because there are already two laws dealing with the issues of IDPs and victims of offences. So, I think that within the Kenyan law, there is a way to deal with it. Third and lastly, whereas I sympathise with the various victims of cattle rustling, the houses that are destroyed, the schools that are interfered with, the women that are constantly raped, the loss of property and life, I really think that the security apparatus of this country ought to be dealing with cattle rustling in a manner that is convenient so that we cannot be talking about dealing with effects of crime through compensation. That is because they are crimes that can be prevented. Yes, it is good that Hon. Cheptumo has raised those issues, but they can be dealt with adequately---
Order, Members! The level of consultations is too high. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
I thank you very much, Hon. Deputy Speaker. It is good Hon. Cheptumo has brought this Motion. I think it is a good Motion for the people of North and South Rift. It raises issues that can be dealt with within the meaning of various Kenyan laws. I think we just need to include cattle rustling within the meaning of offences in the Victim Protection Act. I support his aspirations. The people in the North and South Rift need to get remedies for the effects of cattle rustling. Hon. Deputy Speaker, I support. Thank you.
Hon. Chachu Ganya.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. At the outset, I strongly support this Motion by Hon. William Cheptumo on declaring cattle rustling a national disaster as well as establishing a fund for victims of cattle rustling. I represent North Horr Constituency in the northern part of Kenya where cattle rustling is still very common. For sure, as a nation, it is time for us to call cattle rustling a national disaster. As pastoralists, we have lost so many people to cattle rustling. Lives have been lost in thousands and livelihoods have been shattered. Today, we have many IDP families who have lost everything to cattle rustling and are just surviving on relief food. They have lost all their livelihoods – all their goats, sheep, cows and camels have been taken away by cattle rustlers. Sometimes, like in my case, the problem comes largely from our neighbours from the southern part of Ethiopia. It is time that, as a country, we need to deal with this issue. For a long time, our Government has treated cattle rustling as just a small problem among pastoralists – an aspect of our culture or our environment, when it is actually total destruction of lives and livelihoods. It should have been treated like any other crime or problem in this country. When Mungiki killed Kenyans in parts of Kiambu and Murang’a, it was a national disaster. Pastoralists are killed in hundreds and nobody even mentions it. It is said: “It is just their cultural habit or what they are used to do. It is part of their living.” That is not true. This is the time for Kenyans to see cattle rustling as a crisis and the Government should invest heavily in doing away with the problem of cattle rustling. A special fund for victims, for sure, is one way to go. More than that, why do we not invest heavily in terms of development among the pastoralists so that those young men who are cattle rustlers have other options in life? For instance, the National Youth Service (NYS) could go to parts of northern Kenya and hire all those young men who are cattle rustlers to do something productive with their lives. They can get some income from working in Jua Kali or any other investment from which they can make a living. I strongly think there will be very few pastoralists who will engage in cattle rustling. I will just give you one example from Marsabit. Today, as you know, the Turkana wind firm is putting up a very big power station producing about 300 megawatts of wind power in northern parts of Kenya. That firm has hired most of the
warriors along the Arapal-Lelani border. Because of that, the number of incidences that we have had with our neighbours in Laisamis has gone down tremendously. In the past, we would have one or two incidents every month. Today, we may have one, two or three in the whole year. It is simply because most of those Morans have now been engaged as security officers and are working for the wind firm in Turkana. That can be one way to go. The reality of the matter is that cattle rustling has been commercialised. We have merchants of cattle rustling – people who buy weapons for cattle rustling. They also track the livestock they have rustled in far-off markets like Nairobi, Kisumu, Eldoret or other larger towns in Kenya where they are sold. So, it is no longer just a cultural practice by young men in our communities. There are merchants of cattle rustling who invest heavily and make serious The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
financial income from cattle rustling, and from the desperation and suffering of our people. It is time the Government comes in strongly to deal with those merchants. For me, those are terrorists. They are people who are out to destroy people’s lives and livelihoods in order to make an income – an evil one in that case. The Government, through the law that we have passed in this House, is trying to now support Kenya Police Reservists (KPRs) or home guards. If they are supported, vetted, given the necessary weapons, paid some allowances, brought under the command of the Officers Commanding Police Stations (OCSs) or Officers Commanding Police Divisions (OCPDs) and they are well trained and disciplined, they will cease to be militants in their communities and be seen as officers of our Government working with the Kenya Police and the Administration Police to ensure that the perpetrators of cattle rustling are brought to book. We have already passed the law. I thank Hon. Kamama’s Committee because, again, they have put some money this financial year to support the payment of allowances, buying of uniforms and training of KPRs. If we can increase the funding support for KPRs, we can go a very long way in dealing with cattle rustling. In most of the areas where cattle rustling happens, there are no roads. Police can only follow where there are roads. They cannot walk, while those guys can walk day and night for days and days. If KPRs are locals, they can walk just like those cattle rustlers. If they are well trained and given better ammunition, I am sure the issue of cattle rustling can be reduced in our country.
Hon. Deputy Speaker, this is a very good Motion. I hope it will not gather dust in the shelves of our policy makers and the Executive arm of the Government. I hope it will be implemented. As a House, through our Committee on Implementation, we should see to it that once we pass this Motion, it is implemented. As pastoralist Members of Parliament in this National Assembly, we will take it upon ourselves to ensure that this Motion is implemented and the issue of cattle rustling is given the weight it deserves in our Republic. Thank you.
Ahsante Mhe. Naibu Spika kwa kunipa hii fursa ili niweze kuchangia Hoja hii. Kabla ya hapo, ningependa kuleta suala la kisheria mbele yako. Kama Wabunge, kifungu cha Saba cha Katiba ya Kenya kinasema kuwa lugha ya taifa ni Kiswahili. Lugha rasmi ya Kenya ni Kiswahili. Unapoangalia Kanuni za Bunge, kifungu cha 77, kinasema kuwa maongezi yote yanayoongewa hapa yaongewe kwa Kiswahili. Sisi tunaoenzi lugha hii tuna matatizo wakati tunafanya utafiti kwa Hoja ambazo zinaletwa mbele yetu. Tumeomba Bunge mara kadha wa kadha itupe Kanuni za Bunge kwa lugha ya Kiswahili ili tuchangie Hoja zinazoletwa hapa Bungeni. Kuzungumza kwa Kiswahili si ujinga. Tunaweza kuzungumza kimombo. Hoja hii ina sehemu mbili. Sehemu moja ni ya wale wanaovamia watu, kuiba na kuua. Sehemu ya pili ni wale walioathiriwa. Hoja hii inazungumzia juu ya wale walioathiriwa. Hoja hii haizungumzii juu ya hatua itakayochukuliwa dhidi ya wale wanaovamia watu. Maana ya hii Hoja ni nini basi? Maana yake ni kwamba sisi kama Bunge tuunge mkono mila ya dhuluma na ushenzi wa wafugaji. Tukitangaza wizi wa mifugo kama janga la kitaifa, Bunge linaunga mkono hatua ya wezi wa mifugo. Mimi najua athari za wizi wa mifugo. Wizi wa mifugo ni mchanganyiko wa jinai kuu zaidi ya kumi. Kuna uuaji, ubakaji, ujeruhi wa watu na wizi wa mali. Najua ni jinai aina kumi lakini kuitangaza kama janga la kitaifa na kuwapa pesa waathiriwa ni kuwaambia wezi waende kesho asubuhi kuiba ng’ombe wengine. Hoja hii haina maana. Inaunga mkono wizi wa mifugo. Ili kama Bunge tulaani hicho kitendo, hii Hoja haistahili kupitishwa. Ni hatari. Tunapoteza lengo. Najua athari. Najua vile watu wameathiriwa. Najua athari ya mtu akikosa mali yake. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Najua vile mtu aliyeuawa anasikia lakini kutangaza wizi wa mifugo janga la kitaifa, ni kupoteza njia. Ningependa kumwambia Mhe. Cheptumo aangalie Uganda iliyokuwa na matatizo kama hayo. Mhe. Museveni alituma jeshi kule. Matatizo haya mengi yamezidi katika eneo la Elemi Triangle katika Bara Afrika. Elemi Triangle inamilikiwa na jamii moja. Ikiwa ni sehemu ya Ethiopia, South Sudan au Kenya, watu wanaoishi Elemi Triangle ni jamii moja. Haya ni masuala ya mila. Mila ya kishenzi; mila ya dhuluma na mila isiyotambua mali wala maisha ya mwanadamu. Tutachukua hatua gani kama Serikali kuhakikisha mila hii ya dhuluma na ushenzi imesimamishwa? Ukisema tuitangaze na tutoe rasilimali tulinde wale watu walioathiriwa, hayo matatizo hayataisha. Kesho asubuhi yataendelea. Mimi kama Mbunge sitaunga mkono sheria yoyote inayoendeleza dhuluma ya maisha ya mwanadamu na unyang’anyaji wa mali. Ukiangalia hii sheria, upande wa pili unaendeleza wizi wa mifugo. Kwa nini Uganda imefaulu kutatua matatizo ya wizi wa mifugo katika eneo la Karamoja? Kwa nini Ethiopia imefaulu? Ni nini kama nchi hatujaweza kushugulikia ipasavyo kuitangaza janga la taifa? Je, kesho asubuhi itazuia wale wavamizi wasiende kuvamia? Hapana. Tunasema tu wale waliovamiwa wapewe pesa na kulipwa fidia lakini wale wanaoenda kudhulumu bado sheria haijachukua hatua juu yao. Kwa hivyo, mimi nimesimama kupinga Hoja hii kwa sababu inaendeleza hiyo dhuluma ya wizi wa mifugo, uuaji wa watu na ubakaji wa wanawake. Lazima tuisimamishe leo; si kesho. Ahsante.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. First of all, as part of the suffering community, I want to thank Hon. Cheptumo for bringing this Motion to reduce the menace of cattle rustling. I would also like to acknowledge that the Jubilee Government has tried to bring that menace down. Whenever we have that problem, the Jubilee Government tries to respond. Though it comes late, at least it tries. It has also given us an ear. Whenever we report that issue, the Government is ready to listen, though it is dull in responding. I want to come to the point by saying that the menace has brought a lot of destruction of property. When I was growing up in Turkana, whenever we had cattle rustling, people took only cattle and other livestock without destroying the property of the people. But the present generation has gone a bit high by destroying the properties of the victims and leaving them in a horrible situation. That is why we are saying that the penalty for that crime must be harsh to discourage those who are destroying property. We have lost many lives in North Rift region. They have very sophisticated weapons nowadays. A long time ago when I was growing up, our people used spears for fighting. The deaths were limited because you could not kill more than 10 people with one spear before you were killed. Now, weapons are available even to illiterate people who are using their guns to get economic benefit. They are killing many people by using dangerous weapons which are coming through our borders. The borders of South Sudan and Kenya, Kenya and Uganda, Kenya and Ethiopia are porous. People are bringing in all kinds of weapons because those countries are fighting. They smuggle those weapons to our people who then use them to kill each other. Another issue that we are opposing harshly is the killing of students. When I was growing up, people used to come and take livestock. But they could not cut a child or a woman. Nowadays when those guys come, they kill even a one-month old child. That is why we are The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
saying that those people must be punished harshly so that they can stop practising cattle rustling. We need to come up with some measures so that we can save North and South Rift regions. First and foremost, we must recruit the locals. Some of the security officers who are taken there are not familiar with guns and the terrain of the area. During the wars, they become helpless because they are not familiar with guns. We would like to request the Government to employ the locals who know the terrain, the language and their neighbours. Employing a Form Four leaver as a security officer to just carry a gun is misusing such a person. We need to employ Standard Eight dropouts to be security officers. Form Four leavers will later on advance their studies and become university graduates, after which they will leave their police jobs for greener pastures. If you employ a Standard Eight dropout, he will have nowhere else to go. He will remain in the security force and take the job seriously. That is a measure we need to take into consideration. Hon. Deputy Speaker, we also need to establish socio-economic infrastructure along those corridors. As my friend has said, many victims of cattle rustling are now poor. Those who had many livestock are equally poor. Some of them have gone to urban centres to beg and yet, they were once rich. Because of a single cattle rustling incident, they became poor. We would like the Government to establish socio-economic infrastructure in those areas so that those people can continue living their lives the way they were before. The other measure that needs to be taken is establishing security outposts along our border areas. We have many security officers in Nairobi, Nakuru and other areas where there is no danger at all, unless there are demonstrations. That is the only time when security personnel are used. We need to take policemen in urban centres to where people are suffering. The army in South Sudan follows the people with their livestock. In Uganda, the army looks after their livestock. But in Kenya, military personnel stay in their barracks and enjoy themselves. They are not doing anything. We need our army to be deployed to the border areas. Our people have no weapons like those that are owned by the South Sudan army. When they come for our livestock, we become helpless. Another measure that we need to put in place concerns our leadership. Leadership is a problem. Poor leadership contributes to that menace. As leaders, let us speak the truth. When you protect your community, and you do not tell people that the practice of cattle rustling is bad, it is bad leadership. If you cannot condemn such acts in public, you encourage the communities to continue killing each other. Those who lose elections also use cattle rustling as a way of bringing down those who were elected to office – to show that the elected leaders have been unable to bring the cattle rustling menace down. We need to ensure that leaders are accountable. If you speak about such thing, you must be accountable. Some people just glorify that practice in public. They say that if you do not go to raid, you are not a man. Such a person could even be an elected leader who may want to capitalize on the ignorance of the people to climb up the ladder of leadership. As leaders, we need to condemn that practice and say enough is enough. Our people, especially the pastoralists, listen to us, as their leaders. When you tell them it is bad, they agree and leave it. Finally, as my brother has said, we must make sure that victims of cattle rustling are compensated or they are helped to re-stock to enable them have livelihoods. There are some people in our communities who will never come to urban centres. They are used to their lifestyle of pastoralism. The only way they can enjoy their lifestyle is by having livestock. In those communities, even those of us who are a bit modernized, must have some livestock in order for The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
us to be called men. The Government should establish a fund to help victims of cattle rustling re- stock their livestock so that they can continue with their lives. With those few remarks, I support.
Hon. Grace Kipchoim.
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the Motion. This is a Motion we have been waiting for. First of all, I would like to thank my colleague, Hon. Cheptumo, for bringing this Motion to the House. This is the right time. When we talk about cattle rustling in our regions, blood stops flowing.
On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker.
Hold on, Hon. Grace Kipchoim. What is it, Hon. Patrick Makau King’ola?
Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I appreciate this Motion, but are you in order to continue giving chances to only Members from cattle rustling areas to speak? I am from Mavoko where, although cattle rustling is non-existent, the Kenya Meat Commission (KMC), which is a giant consumer of livestock in this country, is suffering because of cattle rustling. I request you to try and balance so that some of us can also give life to this Motion.
Order, Hon. Patrick. That is precisely what I am trying to do. Hold your horses. Your chance will come. Hon. Grace, you may continue.
Thank you, consumer of cattle rustling. Hon. Deputy Speaker, I was thanking Hon. Cheptumo for bringing this Motion to the House. This is a Motion we have been waiting for. When we talk about cattle rustling, what comes to mind is the destruction that it has brought in our constituencies, especially in the North Rift region. We have gone through untold suffering. Cattle rustling has been happening for a long time. It has left children maimed, families suffering and properties destroyed. The menace has devastated the region. We have lost so much, including closure of schools. I hope this Motion will, in the process, assist the victims. Hon. Deputy Speaker, as Hon. Wario has put it, we need to look at the measures that the Government will put in place to stop cattle rustling. Paying the victims and letting the problem to persist will not help much. The Committee on Implementation should ensure that measures are put in place to stop the menace and ensure that victims have their livelihoods restored. Hon. Deputy Speaker, as we speak, there are about seven schools which are yet to open due to the menace. I have an officer who operates an Armoured Personnel Carrier (APC) which was sent to my constituency about two days ago due to cattle rustling. The officer is nursing head injuries because of the menace. That menace has not only affected the people living in the region, but it has also affected security officers who do not know the issues behind cattle rustling. They do not own cows. They do not know anything about cattle rustling, but they are suffering because of this menace. Cattle rustling is no longer a cultural practice, but a menace that has brought a lot of problems to the people. The perpetrators of that menace should be dealt with accordingly. Punitive measures should be taken against the perpetrators. They should be considered as murderers. The law should not only compensate the victims. It should punish the perpetrators who burn houses, destroy schools and other properties. People who steal cattle and have no respect for humanity The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
should be declared to have committed offences equal to robbery with violence and murder. They should face the law. The victims have suffered so much. Children have been raped, women have been left as widows and men as widowers. Children have been orphaned and subjected to a lot of suffering. Thank you.
Very well. For the record, I will not consider any specific grouping nor fish rustlers like Hon. Millie. I will be balancing on the basis of the membership request. So, Members, you do not have to put your foot down and say we consume or we are the market. This is a National Assembly and, therefore, we will be balancing in that manner. Hon. Makau, I hope that is very clear. It is not that you are getting an opportunity now, but I will be balancing between my right and left side. The other factors will not be used at all. So, I will start with Hon. Patrick Wangamati.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity so that I can add some observations on this Motion. First, I oppose the Motion as it is. I ask Hon. William Cheptumo to use this House to draw the Government’s attention to stop that menace once and for all. This has been a culture and being Kenyans, we are aware that our brothers and sisters in West Pokot, Turkana, Baringo, Garissa and Wajir have lived with that. That is because it has been their culture. However, it is high time they stopped that primitive way of life. This culture is outdated. Let the Hon. Members and Members of the County Assemblies (MCAs) from those areas ask the Government to facilitate them to discuss with opinion leaders and elders like me. They should invite us to go there and address the matter. That is a primitive culture which must be stopped. Hon. Wario has given us a formula and stated what we have seen in other areas, and I congratulate him for that.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, much has been said. I appeal to MPs from those communities to ask the Government for help. This House can pressurize the Government to facilitate them to speak to their people. They need to educate them on the fact that, that is a primitive culture that should not be practised. If there is a problem with the police serving there, we should get our army and send it there to arrest the perpetrators. This has become a business. Those people get many cows. They bring them to our areas and sell at very cheap prices. That prevents some of us from selling cattle in our areas because of the low prices. That is criminal and the Government should stop it. I ask Hon. William not to stop at this level. The 10th Parliament had gone round those areas and had made recommendations. Let us look at those recommendations and ask the Government to follow up and stop that menace once and for all. Thank you. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Very well. I am looking out for Members who would speak that briefly. Let us have Hon. Jaldesa Banticha, the Hon. Member for Isiolo South.
Thank you. I take this opportunity to thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this chance to contribute to this Motion. I also take this opportunity to thank Hon. Cheptumo for bringing this important Motion to this House. It is the responsibility of any government to protect the lives and property of its citizens. The successive governments in Kenya have failed to provide adequate security to the people of northern Kenya and other Arid and Semi-Arid Lands (ASALs) in this country. As a result, many lives have been lost, properties worth billions of shillings destroyed and hundreds of thousands of livestock stolen by cattle rustlers in this region. The affected families have languished in extreme poverty and the Government has never intervened to help those families. The coffee and sugar-cane farmers have been compensated with billions of shillings for the losses they have incurred due to corruption and mismanagement in that sector. Why is it difficult for the Government to compensate the pastoralists who have suffered due to the failure of security agencies to protect them? Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, because of the interest that this Motion has created and many people want to contribute, I do not want to take much time. However, I urge this Government to move with speed and establish a special fund to compensate the victims of cattle rustling and also bring the perpetrators of that heinous crime to book. With those few remarks, I beg to support this Motion. Thank you.
If we go with that speed - and I must commend Hon. Banticha - many Members will have an opportunity to speak. Let us have Hon. Keter, the Member for Belgut.
Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity to air my views on this important Motion. First, we were told that there was a report this morning which was written by Members from this House in the 10th Parliament. I wish that report could have been brought earlier. I hope that something can be got out of that report. At the outset, I would like to say that we are discussing an outdated practice. I remember way back when my community was involved in cattle rustling with another community in South Nyanza. Over some years, cattle rustling is now non-existent. What brought the change? We better call a spade a spade and not a big spoon. That practice is based on education and other factors. Areas with cattle rustling faced historical injustices as a result of how colonialists applied their rule. Some years back in Thika, there was a big sign post written: “The North Eastern is protected area”. You had to get a special permit to go there. It was a marginalized area and there was no much development as a result of how the people there grew up. Instead of recognizing that menace, we should look for ways of tackling it. We should address issues such as infrastructure, roads, development and water. Have they been empowered? What about the youth? What kind of job opportunities have they been given by the Government? Once we empower those people, cattle rustling will be a thing of the past.
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I am in total agreement with Hon. Wario, who said that in this century, we should not be talking about cattle rustling. We should be talking about development. Why is there no cattle rustling in Central Province? Why do we not now have it in South Rift? People have gone into development and agriculture. We should empower their youth so that they can leave that practice.
We should look at cattle rustling in a broader way. We should think big rather than give narrow suggestions. Empowering the community and employing the youth in those areas will end that menace. Telling us to recognize them as being equal to a thief, no matter how you describe a thief, a thief is a thief. Cattle rustling is a criminal act which should be condemned in all possible ways and at no point should a respected institution like this recognize cattle rustling. The Government should stop the menace by using the laws that have been enacted by this House. I sympathize with what happens to the community, children and mothers, but we should not recognize and compensate them. We have internally displaced persons (IDPs). Why are you compensating them? You can also compensate cattle rustling victims in a way instead of bringing it here. This Motion is not worth being brought here.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I oppose.
I can see Hon. (Ms.) Chidzuga raising her support stick, but I will give the opportunity to Hon. Bishop Mutua, anyway.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. At the outset, I would like to oppose this Motion very strongly. We are approaching this problem from the wrong side. We cannot approach this issue from the victims’ side. We should tackle it from the cattle rustlers’ view. We cannot have criminals who are hurting people and destroying properties and they are not dealt with, yet we are here trying to compensate the victims. The Government cannot set up a special fund for compensating cattle rustling victims because that is tantamount to saying we have given up and that we cannot clear that menace. Are we saying that we are hopeless as far as tackling cattle rustling is concerned? There is lack of political goodwill to end that menace. I am sure we could have cleared that problem if we had political goodwill from the leadership in those regions and the Kenyan leadership. We should not compensate. Rather, we should clear those criminal activities. It is important to note that those people are looking for alternative ways of life. We should give them a better way of earning their livelihoods, but not compensate those who are already hurt. What is compensation for lost life? Will money bring back lost lives? We cannot go that way.
We need to develop and invest in that region. We should develop the infrastructure. We should also fight that old and backward culture. We should educate the youth and the public. Leaders from those regions should take the lead in saying no to cattle rustling. As it is now, they are not doing enough. Talking about the number of people who have been killed and those who have lost their properties is not enough. It is tantamount to killing those people in another way. We should set aside funds to develop the region to ensure that the youth have an alternative way of spending their time. We cannot allow them to be idle and expect them not to be misused. I am sure somebody is misusing the young people to carry out cattle rustling. We should pursue them to do the compensation. The Government should not do the compensation through a special fund. We should have stringent laws that when you are caught as a cattle rustler, you are made to compensate victims to stop you from doing it. Why should we allow people to get cattle, sell them and enjoy as we watch and other people suffer? If you are a criminal, we should give you a criminal compensation by making sure that you never dare to do The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
what you have already done. We should go that way. This Motion should be changed to be one that institutes tough measures against cattle rustlers, and not one that sets aside a fund for cattle rustling victims. This Motion indicates how hopeless we are when it comes to dealing with bad cultures in our society. I can equate it to the fight against corruption. We look at corruption and behave as if we cannot do anything about it. If we mean business, we can stop cattle rustling. Let us stop cattle rustling and corruption. Some people are caught and then they are set free. They pay their way out. We cannot stop cattle rustling by creating a special fund to dress the wounds of the victims. That is the wrong way to go. I strongly oppose the suggestion. Let us develop the region which is affected by cattle rustling. Let us put up infrastructure and enhance security personnel within those regions. The security personnel should be trustworthy, but not one which can be bribed. Some of the security personnel are not trustworthy. Let us have a vetting process so that the security personnel which goes to those regions is well compensated, enumerated and is there to make sure cattle rustling comes to an end.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Let us have the Member for Wajir East.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to contribute. It is a very unfortunate situation that today, we are supporting outdated and barbaric actions which are done by people who are well known within the communities. Declaring cattle rustling a national disaster means we have given in to any means of action which can be taken against those people. As much as I sympathise with the innocent women and children who have been victims, cattle rustling is a man-made phenomenon. It is not a disaster which is created by nature. The action has caused irreparable and negative socio-economic impacts, but it can be stopped with the help of the leaders. Cattle rustlers are well known people. They are not people who come from outside the country. This same action has been stopped in Karamojong in Uganda and Ethiopia, which are our neighbours. I do not see why we cannot stop cattle rustling in Kenya.
Most of the people who carry out cattle rustling do it with impunity. They are well known. There are people who buy them guns. They have guns and everybody knows. So, we should take action against cattle rustlers, instead of declaring cattle rustling a national disaster. It is very unfortunate that many victims are suffering because of cattle rustling. We need to help them in one way or another by creating some jobs for the youth and women. Those who are causing mayhem should be brought to book. I know that cattle rustling is partly politically instigated. Some politicians use those very actions to fundraise for their campaigns. Others are seen as heroes when they support that action. Those same leaders should also take responsibility. They should be brought to book. The Government must take action.
The areas which are affected by cattle rustling are so much undeveloped. There is a lot of unemployment of youths and imminent occurrence of drought. Many animals die and people’s livelihood is destroyed. The Government has to develop the areas which are affected by cattle rustling, and give employment to youths. It should also compensate for the droughts. When animals die of droughts, we need to give some livelihoods. We need to rebuild the livelihood of those people, and compensate them in the case of cattle rustling.
The land terrain in those areas is not accessible. The roads are in poor state. We need to develop the road network. We must also develop those areas, in terms of farming and other livelihoods. We should also ensure that there is no impunity anymore. This country has enough The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
resources and security officers. It can manage its own people. Therefore, we should not give in to cattle rustlers. They must be taken as thieves. They must be brought to book, and be made to face the consequences of their actions. Alternatively, most of those communities own illegal guns. We can register those illegal guns and legalise them. If the Government cannot defend the people, every community will defend itself. As much as we wish to compensate the people who are suffering, we should not give in by saying that cattle rustling is a national disaster. I know that there are many young children and innocent women who are suffering. We can rebuild their lives. We cannot declare cattle rustling as a disaster. We must bring the criminals to book, and they must be punished.
Member for Kathiani, Hon. Mbui.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to make my contribution to this Motion. I want to first begin by saying that we discuss many extremely important Motions in this House. When we started off the day’s session in the morning, Hon. (Eng.) Gumbo raised a very serious concern about this particular Motion, which I would like to remind the House. He said that there were a lot of discussions on cattle rustling in the last Parliament, which went all the way to public participation. The Members moved around the country and collected views. A report was prepared, tabled in this House and adopted. My concern is with our office, as the National Assembly, and how it manages those Bills and Motions.
I went to the Table Office recently to try and bring in a Motion or rather to query on a Statement to do with social assistance programme. I was told it had already been done by another Member. However, when I checked the records, they showed that what the other Member had asked about was about banking for the beneficiaries. My statement or concern was about the committee allowances. So, we need to ensure our offices are working to ensure that we do not duplicate issues.
There is also the issue of implementation. We debate every Wednesday in the morning for four hours on Motions, but how many are implemented? I remember on our first year in office, we discussed at length the construction of 20 kilometres of tarmac per year, in every constituency. Members supported it overwhelmingly. We were all so excited. It is three years down the road, and nothing has been done. We will finish our five years, and nothing will have been done. I want us to be serious about implementation of Motions, so that when we discuss them, then they do not die there.
This is a Motion that seeks to declare cattle rustling a national disaster. It also seeks to set up a special fund to ensure that the victims of that kind of crime are compensated. I have several issues with this. The first one is that insecurity in this country is a national disaster, but not when it comes to cattle rustling. We have insecurity all over. Almost everyday, when you open a newspaper or switch on your television or radio, you get reports about people who have been mugged, murdered and maimed because of different types of crimes. Why are we looking at cattle rustling as a special crime? The criminals in this country are coming in all shapes and sizes, and from all sides and all sorts of people? We should be talking about insecurity as a serious national disaster. We have terrorists, bank robbers, carjackers and all sorts of criminal elements. We cannot specify and say in this country, the criminals who are attacking people, taking their cattle and killing them are the ones we should declare a national disaster, and the rest can walk around scot free or be dealt with in other laws. So, my belief is that insecurity is a national disaster, but not just cattle rustling. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
There is also the issue of aftermath of cattle rustling, which is compensation. Why are we setting a special fund for people who are affected by cattle rustlers? What about the people who are affected by carjackers, bank robbers and all the other victims? We need to come up with a victim protection arrangement where we compensate all our victims, but not the ones of cattle rustling only. So, I believe that it is important to look at it holistically, but not just look at regions. There are Motions which specify regions. This Motion is very clear. There is also that assumption that, that problem affects certain places. My colleague from Mavoko has just said that the Kenya Meat Commission (KMC) is seriously affected by cattle rustling. I want to tell the House the reason. The reason is that the cows which have been stolen cannot be sold to the KMC. So, what has happened is that the KMC is running short of animals to buy and process. We are also suffering as a county because of cattle rustling but we are not named here. I do not think we want to call this particular issue a national disaster.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, with those few remarks, I oppose the Motion as it is framed.
Yes, the Member for North Imenti.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I support this Motion. I believe that it is time we established this special fund. I disagree with my colleague who has just spoken because of what cattle rustling does.
Last year in November, we buried five people in Igembe North, Meru County. It is a pity that Hon. Banticha is not here. I am glad that he has talked about compensation to victims. It is us, the leaders, who get cattle rustling done. There is nothing like initiation or culture in cattle rustling. When we call it a cultural practice, it is a wrong interpretation which our leaders give to the populace. The leader who spoke much earlier said that if we do not let them conduct cattle rustling, they will stop eating our miraa . We should not equate miraa with cattle rustling because that is a wrong interpretation.
We should go to the genesis of why we have cattle rustling in Kenya. We should not be having it in the first place but, because we do and the security agencies have not been able to capture the whole---
On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
What is it?
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Mine is to plead with you, as a ranking Member of this House. In the morning, one of the Members from the North Rift mentioned me in bad light. I plead with you, as the Chair of Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security of Parliament, to give me time to say something about this.
I am happy the Speaker---
Hon. Kamama, if you go the direction that somebody mentioned you, you will not go far. You should have raised a point of order at that point and probably clarified the issues that were raised.
It was dealt with by the Speaker.
If you go the direction of the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security, I will be a little more sympathetic. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
I will go that direction.
But this is what will happen, you will not get the opportunity now. You will get it towards the end of the Motion because you will be one of the people who will probably be responding to some of these things. So, I will give you a chance at that point but not the other one. So, let us proceed.
I am much obliged, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, you will have to give me an extra two minutes which Hon. Kamama has taken because there was no point of order. I would like to continue from where I left. It is not just getting the victims and compensating them. We need to get the perpetrators or the aggressors who take the cattle away. We need to know where they take the cattle, who buys it and what they do with it. We should as well take them to court. If we glorify cattle rustling as leaders, I do not think we will go very far. There are political leaders in this House and outside this House who glorify cattle rustling as initiation rites or as a cultural practice. I believe this is the wrong way to go about it. We need the security agencies to move in like they did after we buried the people. We nearly got cited for hate speech; we could have been the Meru six or the Isiolo three. We had people from both sides of the political divide talking about cattle rustling as if it was something very small but people lost their lives and many others lost their livelihoods. We have had he problem of cattle rustling in Tigania West and Tigania East. It is also in Igembe South, Igembe North and Igembe Central. We need to get the people who perpetrate these crimes. We should have them in the statutes as crimes against humanity and as armed robbery with violence. Cattle are not just for the pastoralists. This is because even we, the people from Meru, have cattle. I heard one Member say that cattle are supposed to be only for pastoralists. That is a wrong interpretation because we have cattle as well. Lastly, how do we establish this fund and who will run it? That is the important thing. Instead of saying “urges”, do we say “resolve” because many Motions are passed in this Parliament which “die”? They do not go anywhere. I had a Motion last year which has not seen the light of the day because no blood donor units have been established in the country. Nothing has come out of it but, I am happy with the establishment of the Intensive Care Units (ICUs). I support Hon. Cheptumo. This fund should be established. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
So, that we can avoid Members approaching the Speaker, this is what I am going to do; I will call out the next five names and you will prepare yourselves and be as brief as possible. The next will be Hon. Akujah followed by Hon. Tobiko, Hon. Wanyonyi, Hon. Seneta and Hon. Kubai. I am just following what is here. That is the position. That is to avoid Members having to approach the Temporary Deputy Speaker continuously. Let us go in that order. Hon. Akujah, the fewer minutes you spend the better. Do we have Hon. Akujah in the House? He is absent. So, we will go to Hon. Tobiko. Hon. Akujah loses his opportunity so, the fewer the minutes the better. After that I will give three more Members a chance and see how we will progress.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I am really grateful that I have this opportunity to speak to this Motion. This is because I come from one of the pastoralist communities. However, there is a difference between my community and the communities from the north. I come from the Maasai community which historically embraced cattle rustling as a way of life, but I am proud to say that it is a converted community; a The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
community that has embraced education. It is a community that has addressed other ways of economic empowerment and it is a community that believes in women as leaders even now. I would like to tell our brothers from the north that cattle rustling is nothing to glorify. Cattle rustling is something to be ashamed of. It is something that leaders from those areas must bring to an end. I sympathise with the victims, particularly women and children, because whenever there are such issues, the people who are affected most are women. By supporting or setting up a fund for cattle rustling victims and declaring cattle rustling a national disaster, we will be oiling the wheels of the cartels that perpetuate this menace. We are made to believe or understand that this menace is an economic crime that begins right from Nairobi to those areas. The Government must put mechanisms in place to follow and investigate the crime to its logical conclusion and know those who are perpetuating it. Most times, it is perpetuated by those who are able against those who are not able. I urge my colleagues to look at it differently as something that must be brought to an end. I would appreciate it if our colleagues, pastoralists from other areas, would talk about a fund for drought management than a fund for compensating cattle rustling victims. I also know that Government officers in other places perpetuate this crime. During the dry season, when our cattle go towards Tsavo National Park, around Chyulu Hills at a place called “Oloirien”, you find that the Kenya Wildlife Service (KWS) rangers are the ones who use guns to take cattle from the community. From there, it becomes a perpetual problem during the dry season. This is not a problem of the community but a crime. We cannot glorify it. I urge the Government to guarantee security to the victims. It is unfortunate that Kenyans continue to live in fear or in a situation of want. I urge Cabinet Secretary, Maj-Gen. (Rtd.) Nkaissery - I know he is doing a very good job - to continue handling this situation. It has normalised in a few areas. Hon. Grace Kipchoim, who is a Member of the Committee on National Cohesion and Equal Opportunity, has reported to the Committee that there is progress. If we continue in that direction, we will be able to address the issue of conflict. We will also be able to address the issue of cattle rustling and build infrastructure in those areas. We will bring those communities of this country - Kenyans who are very deserving - to the level where other communities are. Although I sympathise with the victims, we cannot help to perpetuate the crime.
Let us have Hon. Wanyonyi. You will have to take a few minutes although I know you are a man of many words of wisdom.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, people have been talking for as long as they want.
Hon. Cheboi): Hon. Wanyonyi, I am going to deny you the opportunity to speak. I am trying to help your colleagues and you cannot be selfish. I am not going to accept that.
I will be very brief.
You should be very brief.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I come from the North Rift where there has been cattle rustling. People have suffered in that area. Last weekend, I toured an area called “Navisua” at the border between Trans Nzoia and West Pokot. Hon. Janet Nangabo is here and she can attest to that fact. I found families whose children have not been going to school for some time. This is because there are no schools or dispensaries. Farming activities have been impaired because of that. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Secondly, I come from a place called “Kapkoi” in the North Rift. There are people who suffered during the clashes. Up to now those people are staying in tents at market places because they have not gone back to their farms. After listening to a number of Members who have talked in this House, I am of the opinion that rather than support this Motion, I would rather oppose it and reframe it. All is not lost. It should be reframed to read that this House resolves that the national Government declares cattle rustling a national disaster and sets up a special fund not to compensate but to assist victims of cattle rustling. This is because you cannot compensate. I have been to those places. How do you compensate someone’s life? How will you compensate somebody who moved from one place to another 20 years ago? Therefore, the funds that are supposed to be set aside should assist the families rather than compensate them. This is because compensation cannot be quantified. Hon. Janet is here. We attended funerals of two people who were killed by cattle rustlers. Because of insecurity these people are forced to stay with livestock in their houses. Cattle rustlers created a disturbance and when people came out, they were shot dead. That was their end. They took cattle and went away. We buried that man. We are helping the family to go back to normal life. However, with no National Government Constituencies Development Fund (NGCDF), I am not able to assist the families. I would rather we rephrase this Motion. We should resolve as a House that we recognise that people have suffered as a result of this primitive way of living and, therefore, set up a fund to assist rather than compensate the families of those who are internally displaced. The other problem I have had is that some of the places at the border have set up the Anti-Stock Theft Unit (ASTU) that is supposed to be dealing with cattle rustling. If you go to my place, you will find that there is a camp called “Biketi” where there are 60 officers. They are poorly equipped and when cattle rustlers, who are better equipped with machine guns engage them, they drive the livestock away. For us to clear this menace, we should equip the personnel, particularly the ASTU so that they can deal with these people as they come. Lastly, another solution is for the Government to encourage inter-tribal discussions. We have been doing that with West Pokot. We do not have that menace now because we used the churches to discuss with them. Cattle rustling has reduced. There are only isolated cases where somebody comes and drives away 10 head of cattle. Setting up a compensation fund will encourage the so-called warlords, who fund and equip the youth to raid. We should go the modern route of talking to the tribes as the Turkana and the Pokots or the Luhyas on this side of Trans Nzoia and Pokots have done it in the past. It is very peaceful now. It is better than encouraging people to fight. The moment we set up a fund like this for compensations, the warlords will engage it as a business. They will arm the youth to go and raid villages. Apart from getting cows, it will be business. We had cases where people drove cattle all the way from West Pokot to Chwele Market in Bungoma County. That is where they sold the cattle at throw-away prices. All is not lost for the Mover of this Motion. I can sit with him so that we redraft this Motion so that it makes sense in these modern times. Given that view and after listening to a number of Members here, I oppose the Motion as it is.
Okay, let us hear Hon. Seneta.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me a chance to also contribute to this Motion. Cattle rustling is a culture we should contain and not glorify. It is a backward behaviour and practice that has cost very many communities in terms of property and life. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I concur with my colleagues who have said that declaring it a national disaster is making the Government announce and affirm measures to contain it. I am also looking at a way of creating a fund which will encourage people to quit the practice. As communities, we need to think deeply about this practice. It really saddens me when I see our leaders make this practice tribal. Let us reason along this together. Let us look at measures we can put in place to prevent it and make sure that we stop it in Kenya. I am thinking about our security personnel. Our administration should put measures in place to control this menace because it is like any other crime. It is like stealing in banks and killing people through any other crime. We need to strengthen security and put measures in place to control this problem. It is also good to look for ways of empowering the affected communities so that they can have alternative livelihood. As my colleague has just said, the Maasai people in Kajiado used to practise cattle rustling like any other pastoralist community long time ago. It is because our youth have embraced education and other means of livelihood. We have seen this practice come to an end. I urge colleagues and leaders from other pastoralist communities to empower their people to look at alternatives. Let us empower them economically and educationally so that we stop this menace. I am also looking at whether we, as the Government, have put measures in place to criminalise this activity. It should be criminalised instead of creating a fund for it. A fund can be established to assist in drought management or assist the pastoralist communities in restocking rather than paying victims of cattle rustling. We can create another fund that will be like the Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) Settlement Fund. Everyone in Kenya wants to be an IDP because they want to be paid some money. If we set up the proposed fund, we must be careful not to embrace this practice. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Okay. Let us have Hon. Iringo.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this Motion as amendment. I support it because I am one of the Members of Parliament of a community which has suffered greatly due to the menace of cattle rustling. That is why I say Members who are opposing this Motion do not know the experiences people go through when they lose their animals, and when their sisters, mothers and wives are raped. These are people who are left with nothing except rats and, maybe, cats. It is a disaster. It is said that it is the shoe wearer who knows where it pinches. Members of this House who have never experienced cattle rustling – those who live in cities and towns and those who do not live in marginalised areas where communities steal animals - do not know exactly what it entails. My community borders Isiolo County. The communities in Isiolo County embraced the culture of cattle rustling from the word go. They do it with impunity every time they come to steal animals from my constituency and Meru North Constituency. They do this all the time. The stolen livestock are taken away, and security personnel pursue the raiders. You will find the leaders in those communities, who should be educating their people that cattle rustling is a bad culture which should be killed and buried as a dodo, are the ones perpetuating the same. They are the ones encouraging their people to steal cows. This is because they share them when they cross River Ewaso Nyiro. The chiefs, assistant chiefs, Members of County Assembly (MCA) and, I am The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
afraid to mention that even the area Member of Parliament, get a share of the loot. They promote this culture. The Government put in place machinery for ensuring that cattle are not stolen, or people whose cattle are stolen are compensated. The Government should use its machinery to go for those who steal and prosecute them just like a carjacker, murderer or somebody who has stolen from a bank or broken into a shop. They should be treated like criminals as per the law. Those who have been aggrieved because of the stealing culture should be compensated. We should relate cattle rustling to something like carjacking, robbery or something like that. There are cultures whose members have said “we cannot do without stealing animals.” Let it be known today that this retrogressive culture should be fought and declared a problem. The Government should fight it like we have been fighting Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) until we have stopped it. This is a culture which should be stopped. There are some communities which say that you have to kill a lion for you to be allowed to marry or to be circumcised. What happens when you have killed all the lions and those remaining are in zoos? It means those communities will never circumcise again because there are no lions to kill. It is not practical to finish lions. It also means boys who are not circumcised and have no lions to kill will never be circumcised. Therefore, if one has to steal cows so as to marry and there are no cows to steal, he will remain a bachelor. This culture should change. The other day we petitioned His Excellency the President as the Meru community. We have a document listing that we have lost cows worth Kshs400 million in the last three years to our neighbours in Isiolo County. We have demanded compensation because when there is drought and sugarcane is not doing well or there are problems with coffee, people are compensated for those losses. I thank the President because he is also compensating us for the loss of the miraa market in Britain. We also demand that those people who have lost property through cattle rustling be compensated. In essence even those who have been raped and molested one way or the other should be looked after. If the Government does not want to create this fund then for heaven’s sake put your machinery in order so that these animals are not stolen. I support.
I will give a chance to a few Members who will speak very briefly before I give a chance to the Chair of the Committee and the Leader of the Minority Party even if he is way below in the list. The commands of the Standing Orders are clear. So, I will give Hon. Lempurkel and one more Member a chance. The rest of the membership can approach the Mover.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I am a victim of cattle rustling and I come from that area. This is a serious issue. We have lost land, people and cattle. As a pastoralist, cattle is our livelihood. I want to say that people who are victims of cattle rustling should be given a chance to speak. It is very clear in the Constitution that the Government has to protect lives and property. In Laikipia North Constituency which I represent, there is a famous massacre of Kanampiu where we lost over 70 people. I also lost my brother and animals. It is very important for the Government to declare cattle rustling a national disaster and create a special fund. Why are these young men who have never gone to school having firearms? It is because there are no schools, roads and water. Again, it is important to have this fund to compensate these people. We have lost thousands of cows. We have widows and orphans who are now staying at home and cannot access anything. When we had the post election violence (PEV), people were The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
compensated and bought land. The same thing is happening because some communities are arming themselves against others. Sometimes they displace them from their land. Today, as I speak, some people in Laikipia cannot access their land because it has already been taken by others. I would like to tell Members of this House that this issue is very serious and we need to establish this fund so that these people can change their way of life. The only way of changing their way of life is by giving them education, water and roads. We have policemen who cannot access these terrains especially when cows are being taken. I want to tell Hon. Members that this Motion is important and we need to help our brothers from the pastoralist community to be compensated because we have many widows and children who are suffering. Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, with those few remarks, I support this Motion.
Let us have the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for granting me an opportunity to support this Motion. I thank my good friend and neighbour, Hon. Cheptumo for coming up with this Motion. Before, I delve into the nitty gritty of cattle rustling, causes and what the Government needs to do, I just want to put the record straight that the problem we have at the moment between the Pokot and Marakwet--- I condemn it in the strongest term possible. We have had peace since 2003 when I came to this Parliament.
Hon. Kamama, we have limited time because we have just eight minutes before we call the Mover to respond.
So, I summarise?
Summarise because I mentioned the Leader of the Minority Party. There was a Member who could have contributed but unfortunately we will see what to do later on.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, we did a lot to bring peace for 14 years in the valley, with Hon. Kilimo. I now hope Hon. Kangongo will come on board to assist me and other leaders in ensuring there is peace in that area. For somebody to think that Hon. Kamama can engage in cattle rustling--- I want to tell you in very clear terms that I am a civilised Pokot man and I cannot engage in rustling. I can only stop it and we have done it with all our neighbours. Right now, we have peace between the Turkana and Pokot; Samburu and Pokot; the people of Laikipia and Pokot; and, the people of North Baringo and Pokot. We only need to get into the bottom of what is happening between the Marakwet and the Pokot. If we have political inciters who are involved, the Government should investigate and bring those people to book. I want to thank the President and the Deputy President because for the first time we have leaders who are trying to assist in eradicating this problem. We began with what we call peace caravans by Members of Parliament from that region with the support of our two leaders. Right now, cattle rustling has reduced by about 90 percent. I want to thank those leaders for understanding our problems. I do not want to mention the Pokot of West Pokot, but I want to tell you that the Pokot of East have lost billions through cattle rustling. The cows that have been stolen by our neighbours since 1968 up to now are worth about Kshs40 billion. I support that anybody who is a victim of cattle rustling whether from Turkana, West Pokot, Laikipia, Samburu or Tugen community The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
should be compensated. This should either be through the Policy on Restorative Justice or the fund that Hon. Cheptumo is proposing. This is a very archaic, barbaric and old culture. I want to remind Members that even the Red Indians in America who used to occupy somewhere between the Gulf of Mexico and Prairies of Saskatchewan used to practise this menace in those old medieval times. The only way to stop this menace in the long-term is that we must provide education and employment opportunities to them. In the short-term, we want the Government to introduce and deploy the Kenya Police Reservists (KPRs). My Committee, through the Members that I work with, has actually set aside over Kshs400 million shillings to recruit, equip and give uniforms and stipends to the KPR. So, we are getting somewhere in the war against cattle rustling. The KPR will solve this problem because they understand the terrain and they can communicate with these crooks using their own ways.
Wind up, Hon. Kamama.
Lastly, security roads should be opened in those areas and empowerment of the youth should be done. The recommendations of the Report by Kaino, which this House is seized of, should be incorporated in this Motion. So, I totally support that this special fund be set up. Cattle rustling should be condemned in the strongest terms possible by all civilised Kenyans. I support.
Let us have the Leader of the Minority Party say a word because time is against us.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this chance. I support this Motion that we declare cattle rustling a national disaster and also compensate the victims. Many speakers before me have sort of dismissed the idea of setting up this fund. It is good for members to know that the Arid and Semi-Arid Lands (ASALs) cover the biggest portion of this country. They support 50 per cent of cattle, nearly all the herds of camels and 70 per cent of the goats and sheep in this country. Though they support a smaller population of 17 million people, these are very productive areas in terms of livestock. In the interest of time, I want to say that cattle rustling, as has been said, is barbaric, outdated and is a security threat in this country. If it is not contained now, it will bring dire consequences later on. Why do we have cattle rustling and why have we not managed to do away with it? We should consider the geography and the climatic conditions in those ASAL areas. These areas get very little rain. The only way to use the land properly is to move the herds to the grazing areas, water points and the lick salts. So, you cannot stay in one place and benefit unless you move the livestock where there are those resources. I agree with Hon. Asman Kamama that cattle rustling has reduced by nearly 80 per cent. Those people, including members in this Parliament like Hon. Kamama and the wonderful Turkana girl, Lorupe, have brought initiatives that have reduced cattle rustling. Unless we are not aware of the fact that it has reduced, we will keep talking about it. We have cattle rustling because of the climatic conditions where drought wipes out the cattle and then there is need to restock. So, the young warriors have no other opportunities and because there is no education, they have to restock by getting cattle near the places they live. This is what perpetuates the vice. We have to do an affirmative action. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Please wind up.
There has to be an economic policy to help those ASALs, especially those areas where there is cattle rustling. Let us build roads, post more teachers there, try to allocate more money, set up this fund and empower these people economically because if we do not do it now, it will later on come to haunt this country. I support.
Let us have the Mover to reply. I must apologise to Hon. Muchiri and Hon. Fathia Mahbub. Hon. Muchiri, your line went off.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Before I make my last contributions on this, I donate a minute each to Hon. Mark, Hon. Kisang, Hon. Fathia, Hon. Murgor and Hon. Nyaga. I donate a minute to each of them before I conclude.
We will go as per the request of the Mover. We will start with Hon. Mark. You have one minute.
Thank you. I rise to support this Motion because it is intended to compel the Government to act and assist the victims of cattle rustling. I disagree with my colleagues who term cattle rustling as a cultural practice. It is not. This is just a criminal activity that we must all condemn. We cannot attribute the failure by Government agencies to make it look as if it is adored by the communities. I want to inform these members that Uganda compensates victims of cattle rustling. For example, in a scenario where the military have been defeated by cattle rustlers, the Government is compelled to pay for those cows. In 1984, Pokots lost a lot of livestock.
Your minute is over. Hon. Kisang, you have the Floor.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support the Motion by Hon. Cheptumo. In this digital age, it is shameful and barbaric to have cattle rustling continue. As Marakwet, we have lost a lot. For the last three months, we have lost more than seven lives and several cows and goats to cattle rustling. I propose that we include the two counties namely, Elgeyo Marakwet and Baringo, to those that receive the Equalisation Fund. Tiaty Constituency is bigger than Elgeyo Marakwet County and it is still marginalised. If we had the Equalisation Fund, I believe we would have additional schools and we would also build roads. These areas have been marginalised for a long time. These regions in the North Rift have lagged behind because of marginalisation. If this fund is set up, it is will really assist us construct several rural roads and hospitals.
Your time is over. Let us have Hon. Mahbub.
One minute is too short!
Proceed, Hon. Mahbub.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I support this Motion by Hon. Cheptumo. Being a Member of Parliament from the pastoralist side, I know it is very important. This has become a culture and a practice. It should be avoided. I support the proposal of setting up the fund for the victims. I blame the Government and the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government. If we declare cattle rustling a national disaster, what will we call terrorism? What has happened? We really allocate a lot of money to the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government but they are not working well as expected. How will they deal with terrorism which has become the in-thing and the cancer in Kenya? I The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
support this Motion. I feel that the ministry in charge of security is not performing as par the budget allocated to it. Thank you.
Let us have Hon. Muchiri. I cannot see your card at all. Press the intervention button.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me the one minute. I support this Motion with a lot of reservations. I draw the attention of this House to the fact that, first, when you talk of cattle rustling, it is criminal. Secondly, where are chiefs and assistant chiefs?” Why do we have them in the rural areas? Those are the administration officers who can pass this information to the police and the military. Thirdly, where is the Cabinet Secretary in charge of internal and external security? Where is the Inspector-General? Where is General Mwathethe? After 50 years of Independence, we are still talking about cattle rustling. It is unfair, barbaric, evil and ungodly. I rest my case there. Thank you.
Who else? Hon. Cheptumo, you have little time left. By the way, you should be careful when donating your minutes. Many of the Members you have given your minutes have spoken and left. Let us proceed and hear Hon. Korir.
I have the microphone. I think he has donated some time to me.
Hon. Korir is the one who was given an opportunity and I will go by that. Were you also given a minute, Hon. Murgor?
Yes, he was given.
Okay. Let us hear Hon. Korir and then Hon. Murgor. The Mover will then have only one minute.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support this Motion given the fact that I come from Cherangany where I have seen people suffer a lot because of cattle rustling. First of all, I think the first part of the Motion should be to make sure that cattle rustling is regarded as robbery with violence so that those people that engage in cattle rustling are arrested and dealt with immediately. After that the victims who have suffered the consequences of cattle rustling should be compensated. It is the duty of the Government to protect people and their property, and one of their property is cattle. Many people depend on cattle for their livelihoods. Some of them sell it to take their children to school. When a cow is taken away, a family is unable to take its children to school and feed them. That family becomes poor.
Your time is over. Hon. Murgor.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me a chance to add my voice to this Motion. At the outset, I want to say that I support it. If you go to the areas where there is cattle rustling, you will find that there is a lot of suffering, particularly the children and women. I think this fund will go a long way in alleviating their suffering. Apart from the fund, a lot needs to be done to stop this menace. Education is one of them. I think all the youth in those areas should be kept in school as long as possible. There should also be provision of equipped security personnel. It is sad that if you go to some stations, you will find police officers lack equipment and transport. Thirdly, there should be improvement of communication in those areas. There is no need of having personnel with vehicles but there are no roads. That is how cattle rustlers manage to escape. I see my time is over and I support this Motion. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Yes, Hon. Cheptumo.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I think I have some few minutes.
You actually have three minutes.
I wanted to donate one minute each to Hon. Nyaga and Hon. Rotino and then I will use the remaining minute.
I will rule you out of order! I will just give Hon. Nyaga and you can use the rest of the time. I want to advise that the rule of the thumb on this is that do not give time to Members who will leave. Number two, do not give time to Members who will oppose you. Number three, do not give time only to Members from the same side. You might actually shoot yourself on the foot. You are a senior Member, only that you were an Assistant Minister in the last regime. Probably, you do not know that rule. Hon. Nyaga, you have the Floor.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity. I thank the Mover for giving me the one minute. Cattle rustling is a practice that should be highly condemned. This is a practice that has left many children homeless and without education and security. We need to talk to our Government to ensure that we have security in this country. We say that we want to grow our economy, but how can we grow it when teachers are not teaching, farmers are not doing what they are supposed to do and children are not going to school to get education? There is no way we can grow our economy when we are not doing what we are supposed to do. In my county of Tharaka Nithi, men do not sleep. They are always outside protecting their families. They sleep with livestock in the same house because the moment the livestock are left out they are taken away.
Hon. Cheptumo, just to assist you, I will give you an extra minute which I will donate to Hon. Namwamba on my own motion. I am using Standing Order No. 1.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. At the end of the day, the ultimate solution here is a grand marshal plan that can respond to the challenges bedevilling the areas that have suffered this menace since time immemorial – a marshal plan that can put all these young people through school and equip them with skills so that they can start changing their way of life. I support.
Hon. Cheptumo, you have the Floor.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, it is like you read my mind. I was to request you to give Hon. Ababu some moment. Thank you for doing that. I want to very sincerely thank my colleagues for the overwhelming support they have given to this Motion. For the last two-and-a-half hours, we have been debating this critical Motion. I would like to note the fact that we have been able, as a House, to recognise the very serious consequences that have been suffered by the victims of cattle rustling who are in thousands – the widows, widowers and orphans. Some Members said that if we declare cattle rustling a national disaster---
You do not have the luxury of time because you donated all your minutes. You cannot have your cake and eat it.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, we would like to declare cattle rustling a national disaster so that the Government will be able to give attention and allocate The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
resources to deal with the insecurity situation. The fund is going to help victims of cattle rustling. This is the Assembly of elected leaders of this country. Those of us who are victims of cattle rustling and those who practise the same should rise to the occasion and say enough is enough. I would like to appeal to my colleagues to support this Motion. Thank you for the support you have shown in your debate. Even as we go to the last stage of voting, I appeal to you to support this Motion so that victims of this menace shall be compensated and assisted. As the Government continues to provide solutions, Chapter Four of our Constitution requires the Government to guarantee the Kenyan people security for their lives and property. It is because of that failure that we are now saying it is the business of the Government to ensure those who are affected are compensated adequately for the suffering they have gone through. I beg to move and thank Hon. Members.
Let me confirm if we have the numbers to make a decision. It is confirmed that we do not have the numbers. Therefore, the Question will be put at a later date. We will move on to the next Order.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, aware that the Kamukunji grounds is undoubtedly one of the most important public spaces in Kenya’s political history; further aware that it was here that our national leaders held ground-breaking political rallies that mobilized the masses in the struggle for freedom and independence from colonial rule; cognizant of the fact that for the last 40 years, the Kamukunji grounds have continued to play a significant role in the Kenyan people’s struggle for human rights and democracy, specifically the Saba Saba Rally that brought an end to the one-party rule ushering in a new era of multi-party democracy; concerned that the historic ground has been forgotten and neglected yet the great men and women of this great nation suffered so that we could be free; this House resolves that the Government declares the Kamukunji grounds a protected national monument and a historic place of great importance and transforms it into a safe and livable public space for present and future generations.
Proceed. Do you have a problem with the microphone, Hon. Hassan? I think you are okay. It is only that you are a little tall. So, you have to bend a bit.
Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, we all know that Nairobi, being a segregated city had only one significant place where people of African origin could meet, discuss and express their political feelings. This was Kamukunji Grounds in my constituency. For many years, this has been the place that has pulled in people from all over our capital city to express their inspiration in terms of independence and freedom, to express their views in terms of the kind of nation they wanted to live in and the kind of leadership they had. It is here where they came every year to rally the Kenyan public against the repressive colonial rule that we had for very many years. During the many years of the Kenyatta regime and the one party rule of the Moi regime, Kamukunji has always been the place where Kenyans come together to express their feelings. It The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
was here that the major Saba Saba was held which changed the political direction of this country from a dictatorship one-party system to a multiparty system. Over the years, people go to those grounds as holy political place where they can express themselves. However, in recent years, Kamukunji has been neglected. It risks being grabbed. What I am urging now is for this House to make sure that these grounds are preserved, protected and made a national monument which we can all be proud of. Thousands of Kenyans have given their lives so that we can be free and thousands of Kenyans have suffered and gone to prison so that we can be free. It is here where Jomo Kenyatta, Jaramogi Oginga Odinga, Tom Mboya and many of our political icons rallied the Kenyan people. It is here the second generation of our liberators also rallied our public. So, this is a very important ground. We should make sure that it is preserved and kept for prosperity for the future generations of our country. We should make sure it becomes a place where every Saba Saba day all Kenyans can proudly go, celebrate and mark this important occasion. Thank you.
Hon. Hassan, you have 30 minutes. I am sure you know. Have you finished moving?
Yes, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.
Who is seconding you?
The Member for Chuka/Igambang’ombe.
Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I know you are looking at that time. I will make sure that I do not exceed it. I thank the Member for Kamukunji, Hon. Hassan, for the opportunity to second this Motion. Without the need to preach to the already converted, the African word “Kamukunji” is a place where informal meetings take place. It is a place where people meet to compare notes and exchange ideas.
I believe that is how that ground came into existence. There is need to realise that all historic events that have changed the political landscape of Kenya have taken place at the Kamukunji grounds. There is need to make sure that we protect those grounds beyond generations because if you look at all the milestones that we have achieved in the political landscape of Kenya, you will find that they had one or more things to do with the Kamukunji grounds. These include the famous Saba Saba political rally and the recent initiative by the Opposition to try and start the O koa Kenya initiative. There is reason why people go there. Some people believe that there is a spiritual connection. Looking at the current events, every place that contributed to the welfare of a country is in one way or another getting protected so that generations that will come after us will understand that this is our historical sites that have changed the history of the country. The famous Uhuru Gardens on Langata Road is the one that we normally remember for the Independence of Kenya. When we talk about the Union Jack going down, we all go there and we attribute Independence to the same. For the same reason, the Kamukunji grounds being the venue used by our African brothers during the colonial times--- We never used to have any meeting by our colonial masters. It is more strategic for us because it is what we associate with. For that reason, I plead with Hon. Members to endorse the Motion so that we can not only protect Kamukunji grounds but also protect our heritage. With those remarks, I beg to second.
The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor.
Hon. Members, I cannot give a chance to any other Member to speak on this Motion today because our time is over.
Hon. Members, the time being 1.00 p.m., the House stands adjourned until this afternoon, at 2.30 p.m.
House rose at 1.00 p.m.