Order! Hon. Senators, we need to determine if we have a quorum. Mr. Clerk, do we have a quorum?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have 17 hon. Senators present. We have a quorum
Let us proceed.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to give notices of the following two Motions:- ESTABLISHMENT OF SENATE LIAISON COMMITTEE THAT, the Senate resolves to establish a Committee to be designated as the Liaison Committee comprising Chairpersons of all Senate Committees, excluding Joint and ad hoc Committees to co-ordinate the activities and operations of all Committees of the Senate. APPROVAL OF SEN. ELACHI AND SEN. BULE TO COMMITTEES TO REPLACE SEN. (DR.) KHALWALE THAT, pursuant to Standing Order No.135(3) and 177(3), the Senate approves the following hon. Senators nominated by the Rules and Business Committee to be members of the respective committees as indicated below, to replace Sen.(Dr.) Khalwale, who has been discharged from the respective committees pursuant to Standing Order No.178. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen.(Dr.) Khalwale?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise on a point of order to seek clarification or direction from the Chair. It is now in the public domain that there seems to be either a standoff or a misunderstanding between the Commission for Revenue Allocation (CRA) and the Treasury. The country is made to understand that there is a disagreement on how much money the Treasury intends to disburse to the devolved governments. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to refer you to Article 217 of the Constitution on Division of Revenue. If you allow me, Article 217 reads as follows:- “Once every five years, the Senate shall, by resolution, determine the basis for allocating among the counties the share of national revenue that is annually allocated to the county level of government.” Mr. Speaker, Sir, Article 217(2) (b), (c) and (d) goes on to say:- “In determining the basis of revenue sharing under clause (1), the Senate shall- (b) request and consider recommendations from the Commission on Revenue Allocation; (c) consult the county governors, the Cabinet Secretary responsible for finance and any organization of county governments; (d) invite the public, including professional bodies, to make submissions to it on the matter.” Mr. Speaker, Sir, Article 217(3) further says:- “Within ten days after the Senate adopts a resolution under clause (1), the Speaker of the Senate shall refer the resolution to the Speaker of the National Assembly.” Mr. Speaker, Sir, the reason for seeking the Chair’s direction is because I am concerned that the public is aware that we are the custodian of the interests of the devolved governments. For such an important issue to take place in the country and the Senate is quiet, the public will be forgiven if they thought that we are sleeping on the job. All the things that I have pointed out to in the Constitution have not been met by the Senate, the Treasury and the CRA. Could you direct how we should handle this very critical issue? It is being purported that the money meant to go to the county governments The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen.(Dr.) Khalwale, you have raised quite fundamental issues. Let me make that ruling after I look at your submission. I will then determine the way forward.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, aware that during the first years after independence the best equipped public schools were established in certain regions of Kenya to the exclusion of other regions, resulting in such regions having undue advantage in producing educated manpower; appreciating that the introduction of the devolved system of Government in the Constitution of Kenya, 2010, was aimed at achieving equalization of development and other opportunities, including education across the country; noting that the Government has lately embarked on establishing more public universities in the country and further concerned that the majority of the public universities are currently concentrated in a few regions of the country to the exclusion of the rest of the country; the Senate urges the Government to take urgent and immediate steps to ensure that there is equitable distribution of universities in the country and to ensure that at least one public university is established in every county in Kenya before the expiry of the term of the current Government. Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I move this Motion, I would like to request hon. Senators to recall the objectives of devolution. These objectives are spoken to at length, even by the Constitution. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg your pardon, allow me to me pick a copy of the Constitution.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the purpose of putting these objectives in the Constitution was intended to force the Executive to observe these provisions, so that never again would we live in a country which is as unequal as Kenya is today. For the interest of hon. Senators, I would like to refer them to Article 174 of the Constitution that speaks to the Objects of Devolution. Mr. Speaker, Sir, Article 174(b) of the Constitution says:- “The objects of the devolution of government are- (b) to foster national unity by recognizing diversity; The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Sen.(Dr.) Khalwale! Which President are you referring to?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the third President of the Republic of Kenya, the hon. Mwai Kibaki. Thank you for the correction. I plead that they expedite the expansion of the Faculty of Nursing at MMUST, so that it becomes a fully fledged school of medicine. In view of what the immediate former President stated when he was at Kakamega Provincial General Hospital, I would like the Government, to expedite the expansion of the hospital to a teaching and referral hospital that will be affiliated to MMUST. Mr. Speaker, Sir, before I conclude, I want to comment on the quality of education in our universities. If you saw what happened during the nomination process of the president, governors and deputy presidents in this country at the just ended election, it spoke volumes on the inefficiency of the Commission on Higher Education (CHE). The CHE should come out strongly and ensure that as we increase the number of universities, each university that is given a charter must be seen to have a sufficient number of prerequisite lecturers; and those lecturers should have the proper qualifications to teach our children. At the same time, the parallel degree program should be properly monitored to ensure that students who register for it are only those who have met the minimum qualifications to join those courses and that they are given quality education. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the quality of education in this country is something that is very attractive, and very many rich parents waste a lot of foreign exchange taking their children to universities abroad. I have done a bit of survey on the internet and I have found that there is no university in the United Kingdom (UK) which costs less than 9,000 UK Pounds per annum . This translates to around Kshs1.2 million per annum in the form of tuition. Our children at local universities, receiving quality education, only need between Kshs200,000 to Kshs400,000 per annum to study at the university. I would, therefore, like to encourage Kenyans to believe in Kenya so that the foreign exchange which we waste in paying university school fees for the children who learn out of this country can be put to good use for our economy to grow. Mr. Speaker, Sir, having said all those many things, I am privileged to have a House of men and women of letters; today I will request none other than Prof. Lonyangapuo to second the Motion. With those remarks, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I arise to support this Motion---
Remember you have ten minutes.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think this Motion has come at a right time when we are establishing the new systems of devolved government. Looking at the way the Constitution was written, it came in to correct some of the issues that had not been put right; one of them was education. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Senators; I also want to make a communication just to brief you. It will come at the time when you should be voting, but I think you need to know it from the very beginning.
Hon. Senators, I wish to draw to your attention the provisions of Standing Order No.69, which states as follows and I quote:- “(1) When the Senate is to vote on any matter other than a Bill, the Speaker shall rule on whether the matter affects or does not affect counties. (2) The Speaker’s ruling under paragraph (1) shall be made after conclusion of debate on the matter but before the question is put. (3) When the Senate votes on a matter that does not affect counties, each Senator has one vote. ” That is what you need to note. Hon. Senators, the Motion on any matter that affects counties, if the decision of the Senate on the matter, either in the affirmative or in the negative, impacts or has the prospect of impacting on the counties in a positive manner. In the present case, I rule that this Motion affects counties within the meaning of Standing Order No.69 and Article 123 of the Constitution. And accordingly, when the Question will be put, each county delegation shall have one vote to be cast on behalf of the county by the head of the county delegation. So, if the head of your county delegation is not present, you need to look for that head or in the absence of the head of delegation, by another member of the delegation designated by the head of the delegation. You cannot purport to represent your head of delegation without the head of delegation designating you as the one to vote. So, pursuant to Article 123 (4)(c), this Motion will be carried only if it is supported by a majority of all the delegations. That is by at least 24 county delegations. Under Standing Order No.73(2), I would direct that when the roll will be taken, this being an instance where the Senate is to decide on a matter that requires voting by county delegations, for the benefit of the Senators, I want to go to Standing Order No.73, which states as follows:- “(1) The Speaker shall direct a roll call vote to be taken, if a Senator claims a roll call division and – (a) the Speaker considers that there is a reasonable doubt as to the outcome of any question in an electronic vote; or (b) if, on a question other than a question of procedure, fifteen or more Senators rise in their places to support the Senator claiming the roll call division. (2) The Speaker shall direct a roll call vote to be taken in every instance where the Constitution lays down that a fixed majority is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am rising to seek a further clarification from you because when political parties were nominating senators, they were not nominating them because of the geographical area they come from; they were nominating them as their party members. Mr. Speaker, Sir, when a Senator claims to belong to a particular delegation, what is the lowest denominator that connects that senator to that delegation? Is it the certificate of birth; or is it as a registered voter? I would like that you make it clear because we have a few people who will find – and I know them and I can give examples – that they come from a different county and they are registered as voters in a different county. So, in this case, to which delegation do they belong? Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, we are looking for the exact position in the Constitution but suffice it for now that if the political parties nominated Members on any other criteria, then we are not aware of it. The one the Constitution gives us and the way we determine that you are a Member of a particular county is on the basis of where you are a registered voter. That is the law and the Chair will faithfully implement it. We have taken the trouble of finding from the Registrar of Political Parties where each Member present or each Senator is a registered voter and that is what counts. Let me just read to you the Constitution of Kenya which you used quite extensively when you were moving your Motion, Article 123(1) reads, “On election, all members of the Senate who were registered as voters in a particular county shall collectively constitute a single delegation for purposes of Clause 4 and the Member elected under Article 98(1) (a) shall be the head of the delegation.” So, the Senator who was elected is the head of delegation. Any other Senator nominated will belong to that county on the basis of being a registered voter.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think that is an important point that will be put to the test today when we are voting on this because you have ruled that this is a county Motion. The fact that the head of delegation must designate who in his or her absence will vote, I think we need to have a ruling on what that “designation” means. Is it in writing? Is it from time to time? Is it permanent or one off? Has it been deposited in the Clerk’s office? How is it done? I think that is important. I think, Mr. Speaker, Sir, you need to rule on that case because supposing your Deputy Speaker is on the Chair when the voting is done and suppose the Senator in the Speaker’s Panel is on the Chair and he is the head of the delegation, does that person have a vote or does the delegation lose the vote on that Motion? I think we need to have a ruling on that matter.
Hon. Senators, that is why I took the trouble although the Standing Orders dictate that I should have read this when we are about to vote. I have appreciated that this is the first time we are doing it differently and maybe it is also in the history of the Republic. So, I thought I should raise these issues upfront and definitely the kind of responses it has elicited are necessary. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki?
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I have two things; first, the Leader of Majority would have wanted to make a few comments with your permission before sectional chairs. The second point of clarification that I am looking for is whether the ruling that you have just made also applies to the party House leadership because we are also Senators representing counties and in some cases, there is no other member. So, it is a delegation of one.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Since the House opened, we have heard Members raise two or three points of orders. Is it a precedent being set that one Member can raise more than one point of order at a time or do we follow the precedent that was set by Parliament in the previous events?
That only one point of order will be raised at a time.
To the best of my recollection, I do not think we ever imposed a limit on the number of points of orders you can raise. Secondly, this is a new House, assuming that what you are saying is true. This is a different House and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I request that I am not misunderstood on this. What I was raising is that the Leader of Majority raised two points of orders in one instance.
The first one he was requesting whether he would be allowed to make some comments before another Member and it was really the second one that was a point of order seeking a clarification. In my view, I was disposing that point of order before I come to the other one. I think that some of these things are at the pleasure of the Chair in terms of points of order. Actually, he stood up on a point of order and raised two different issues. So, I do not think that amounts to two points of order but one. So, if you are satisfied with my ruling on the first one, then I can address the point of order. Of course, he is at liberty to make his contribution at any time during the Motion. In fact, from the Procedural Motion that we passed when we came to the House, he is allocated a definite time. It says that the Motion has a maximum of three hours with not more than 20 minutes for the Mover, 15 minutes for the Majority party official responder. So, he will respond as an official party responder. So, I decided that I want to give a chance to Sen. Kagwe. The Leader of Majority can hold his horses for now. Proceed, Sen. Kagwe!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion with a proviso on the language so described in the Motion because I prefer to support something from a positive perspective rather than from a negative one. My friend, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has very serious concerns and which I take very seriously as well, but let us put things in perspective because when you say that it is concentrated in a few regions at the exclusion of others, it connotes certain negative things. Instead of saying, it is concentrated in a few areas of the country and not in others, why do we want to split hairs? I think that the Motion is well-deserved and it is a matter of concern to Kenyans. The purpose of education is not just to bury youths in an information overload but to transform them in a manner that they can transform our societies. Therefore, if we have colleges and universities across the country, it is possible for us to take advantage of research and other conditions that exist in various parts of our country. Mr. Speaker, Sir, when we talk about specialization of universities, for example---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I was wondering whether it is in order for Sen. Wako to walk in the Chamber carrying a bag whose contents we do not know. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
He is definitely not in order but the Chair is being engaged by the Senate Minority Leader and I am wondering whether there was a conspiracy between him and the Senator for Busia so that the Chair cannot determine the size of the bag. Senator for Busia, did you have a bag? The only bags we allow are the ladies bags.
It is a ladies bag, actually!
Order, Senator for Busia! If you have a bag, then we do not allow men to bring bags in the Chamber and you cannot donate it to a lady now. You have to retrace your steps and deposit it with the Serjeant-at-arms.
Much obliged, Sir.
Proceed, Senator for Nyeri.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, even though it is gender discrimination for Sen. Wako to take away his handbag--- To continue with my contribution, and hopefully that time was noted, we can use universities in various regions of our country to provide the much needed unity that Kenya requires. In saying that, let me say that universities, irrespective of where they are located, are not for the exclusive use of those people living where the university is located. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale noted the “Nairobi University” and other universities in Nairobi. I happened to have been the Chairman of the Multi-Media University Council and I can tell you that it is a constitutional requirement that universities---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Did you hear my very distinguished friend, the Senator of Nyeri, making reference to “Nairobi University”; which university is this? I know The University of Nairobi and not Nairobi University.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I meant universities in Nairobi and they are many; not one. Even so, it is indeed the University of Nairobi where Sen. Wetangula and I went to school. Thank you very much. I was saying that the location of a college does not necessarily determine who is going to attend that college. As we well know, for example, Kimathi University in Nyeri has students from all over this country. I presume the universities that are going to be built in other areas of the country will likewise have students from all over the country because in addition to education as I had mentioned, universities can be used to unify our nation. Indeed, some of us are of the view that the more integrated a school is in terms of the various races and tribes, including at high school level, the more funding it should actually get from the Government to encourage our people to integrate as much as they can in a school environment rather than trying to integrate when their minds have already been poisoned against other regions and tribes. Mr. Speaker, Sir, however, as we plan to have these universities in the various counties, it is important that we do not sacrifice the quality of education in our nation. Not only that, but the standard of our education; the benchmark, should actually be The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, at times, it is painful to address historical injustices. At times, it is not easy for the beneficiaries to accept that that happened. This House must be explicit and we must be open not because we condemn certain communities in this country, but because we condemn what happened in the contexture of history. Of the 22 purported public universities, 14 chartered private universities and 12 universities with intention to be given authority, I do not need to go to the statistics Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has given to show where these universities are positioned. The last debater had a point; put universities where the need arises. But was this used to establish these universities? All I remember is that communities have to bow to the Head of State to have a university positioned in their place. You should pledge your loyalty. How long did it take to establish Mombasa University? Look at the changing of Western Kenya College of Arts and Applied Science (WECO) to a fully fledged university, how many years and kneeling did it take to establish that university? These are things that can be statistically proven. If you look at the list that was printed two weeks ago of people who qualified to be interviewed by the Public Service Commission for the positions of Principal Secretaries, it tells you. Migori County had only one candidate. There was no candidate from Suba, Kuria and not to mention the other six constituencies of my county. This is just an example I have given. Is it because the people from this region did not meet the threshold of the requirements? This is not true. Be that as it may, skewed the establishment of universities in this country is evident and obvious. We should accept the truth. We should have a university in every county because every county has a resource. Mr. Speaker, Sir, every former province has a resource that a university can identify itself with. We know that some of these institutions were established because of the skewed laying of the railway and the establishment of towns. So, there are more factors on the establishment of universities as a result of skewed allocation of resources, not only to schools and colleges but even to health services. If you have a mortality rate of 180 per 1,000 children dying in Homa Bay compared to 36 per 1,000 in Thika where do you expect to get professionals from when everybody dies in the first five years or the first one year of life? I will be coming up with another Motion on the establishment of Level Five Hospitals in every county because that is what is now required. It is required of us, as Senators of this country, to identify the truth and act on it. We should not be ashamed to say the truth. So, let us not hide and bury our heads in sand; that you see, you can have education from another university where you do not come from. We are not saying that those universities that will be established in the counties should only concentrate on educating the children from those counties; they will be universal. These are established to accept a certain quota of students from other regions into universities. We see these students in a very calculated move right from Independence. At Independence, I think we had the best professionals in this country from Nyanza and Western provinces. However, is that the situation now? This was a calculated move and I am worried. If you look at the trend of the Ministers whom we now call Cabinet Secretaries and where they come from, you will be worried. If this is the trend The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I come from the northern part of the country and this inequality still exists. Even though it was there during the colonial times, in our times, it still exists. This kind of a Motion will, to an extent, remedy some of that. If you look at the Northern Frontier District (NFD) which covers all the area from the Ugandan border to the coast, you will see that during the colonial times this area was closed. What we are talking about was brought about by the colonialists. They made sure that nobody had access to any education and before Independence, they only allowed in faith-based organizations like churches to come to the area. Among the jobs given to them was that they had to develop educational institutions and even health facilities. The Government did not consider that to be its duty. The colonialists took up the running of the Government. Right now if you check, you will see that the schools that are set up there are faith-based. This also applies to hospitals. You could find only one hospital in a whole county or even being used by two counties. The national schools were not also established there. There was only one national school in upper eastern and one in northern Kenya which is Garba Tulla High School. This one was allowed to die as a national school, and now it performs worse than district schools. This shows the kind of importance that the Kenyan Government attachés to education in some parts of this country. Therefore, this kind of a Motion will correct some of these irregularities in terms of access to educational facilities. You should not expect people to get educated just because an area has schools. You have to check the kind of standards there right from primary level to university level. The facilities provided by the Government to schools in northern Kenya are very minimal that a child cannot be expected to perform the same as any other child in this country. I will give an example. When pupils write their examinations, a few of them make it to the national schools. I have looked at a report form of one of the students. A school like the Alliance Boys School keeps records, up to Form Four, of the position that a student has achieved since he was admitted in comparison to the Kenya Certificate of Primary Education (KCPE) results that he got. I know of a student who was recorded as number 100 out of a class of 120 as his KCPE performance. However, he used to be among the top ten in his class. What does that mean? That means that at the primary level, access to quality education in some parts of the country caused the disparity of about 90 per cent compared to what other students from other parts of the country were getting. In terms of teachers from the Teacher Service Commission (TSC), whenever these teachers are posted to northern Kenya, they take this as a disciplinary measure. When one gets a letter posting him or her to northern Kenya, the first question that he or she will ask is; what have I done wrong? This is not taken to mean that someone will be giving service in this country. It appears like one is being sent on demotion or punishment. That is how teachers take it when they are posted to those parts of Kenya. That contributes to poor performance and inability to compete with others in getting positions in the existing national schools. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir for this opportunity to make my contribution. On the outset, I would like to say that I support the Motion. During my contribution to the Presidential Address, I dwelt on the marginalization of certain areas of this Republic especially now 50 years after Independence. We can look at what development has taken place and where. It is clear that correcting issues of marginalization must be the agenda of this Senate if we are to play the role that those who drafted the Constitution expected. In my view, that is the reason why we went into devolution. This was to try and correct developmental injustices as Senators. Therefore, I would like to implore my colleagues that we stand together whenever we point out injustices so that we do not appear defensive. Here, we are speaking facts. We must rise to the occasion and assist in correcting these injustices. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Senator for Marsabit talked about primary school education as the basis for these injustices. If you go to certain counties, Kitui County included, you will find that even in primary schools there are no teachers. If you go to other counties, you will find that the schools are overstaffed. Therefore, injustices begin right from the foundation where you have no primary school teachers. Talk about laptops being issued to these schools where 100 students are studying under a tree because they have no classrooms and have no teachers, that is an issue for another day. However, the point I am making---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, protect me from the Leader of the Minority because he does not want to allow us to contribute.
I cannot protect you from your own leader.
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Mr. Speaker, Sir, while on that Chair, you are supposed to protect all of us. I was talking about marginalization in education; right from primary education. As we talk about university education, we must also address issues of primary education and to a certain extent, secondary education because these are the institutions that produce students for the universities. I said that we will dwell, in this Senate, on talking about injustices and appealed to my colleagues to stand up and be counted so that we correct these injustices for the good of this Republic. The Senator for Migori hinted that he will be bringing a Motion on the establishment of the Level Five hospitals in the counties. I will also be bringing a Motion on the marginalization of counties as far as infrastructure is concerned. Therefore, we will have many Motions of this nature and I want to appeal to Senators who come from counties that have been favoured to support these Motions. By doing so, they will be living to the expectations of our forefathers who made this Constitution because it was made, to correct the injustices, once and for all. If you want to believe, take a stock of the student population in our public universities in Kenya today. You will, no doubt, find that the students of these institutions come from certain areas. That makes what the Chairman for the Education, Information and Technology Committee has said, that institutions can be anywhere and be of no substance. I challenge the Chair of the Committee on Education, Information and Technology to ask for statistics of the student population of our public universities and we see how many students we have from the County of Turkana, how many there are from the County of Kitui and how many come from the County of Meru among other areas. Unless we correct this, we will keep on singing the song of equal opportunities in the country. As the Senator for Migori said, in the current interviews going on, you can clearly see that some counties cannot even produce a candidate for the post of Principal Secretary, yet we claim that our education system is fair and the universities can be anywhere since they are accessible to all communities. I think that is a fallacy. Therefore, I urge, that in supporting this Motion, the Government deliberately starts immediately to establish universities in these counties, particularly counties that have no university close by so that at least, by the end of the five year term, as the Mover of the Motion envisages, we can at least count a number of new universities not concentrated on traditional areas, but concentrated or spread over the country. This way, we would be not only showing that this country has a uniform kind of development, but will also be showing that all Kenyans are equal and have equal access to facilities like education. So, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to conclude by urging that the Government follows this spirit of the Motion, but not only start at universities; let us start at primary education by ensuring that, first and foremost, there are enough teachers to teach those kids in primary schools and then move on to secondary education and make sure that there are enough teachers in secondary schools to teach those students in order to prepare them to access university education. I gave an example of my own county where I know that there are certain secondary schools in Kitui County with Form One to Form Four, but with only one teacher employed by the Teachers Service Commission (TSC). The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for your eyes actually to have captured me today. Since I came to this House, many are the times that I have really rose, but maybe because of gender or age, I have not been given a chance. I just want to take this opportunity to thank the members of my county, which is Kajiado, for electing me as their Senator. I also actually congratulate them for the way they have always lived together within our county, which is purely a cosmopolitan region. We also have an area which is purely a pastoral area. For those of you who do not know how good our county is, talk about this in this country and you will just know that it is Kajiado which you can really happily have a good home and live. For the new Senators, I congratulate you all for finding yourself here. For those who went campaigning, I know the struggle all of us went through. For those who went through the nominations, I also congratulate you; you must have contributed to the party in a bigger way. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Motion that every county deserves to have a public university. Other than just a university, may I say that universities are quite good in producing managers. I would really still go on to say that for the middle level colleges, I would want to suggest, if possible, every county should have as many middle level colleges as possible. In my county, we do not have any single teacher training college or a medical training college. I think other than the village polytechnics, which are quite few, I can just say literally that we do not have middle level colleges in our county. So, I will not really want to dwell so much on historical injustices, but I would just wish to support this Motion and say that it is good if we really talk about devolution and also devolve education into the counties. In my county, we have a lot of problems. Water is a major problem in my county. Yesterday I happened to have met the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) who is supposed to take care of my county plus the Board of Directors and managers and I was shocked that they do not even know my county. They just know Kitui, Machakos, Kibwezi, Kajiado Central and part of Ngong. When I told them about Mosiro, Magadi and Ewaso Kedong, I was talking Greek to them, and yet these are officers who are supposed to make sure that they are taking care of the people there. So, I really ask the Government to make sure that those who are supposed to make sure that the services are delivered to the people know the area properly. If they do not know, they should undergo some orientation before they take up their jobs. On the issue of roads, I think we only have two tarmac roads in my county; the road which actually comes all the way from South Africa through Namanga, Kajiado, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me the chance to contribute on this Motion. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a Motion which should have taken time before being brought to this House. To me, it looks okay, but a bit more ambitious going by the level The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, hon. Senators! Could we hold consultations in an orderly manner, please?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am trying to impress on the hon. Senators not to be so ambitious. It is important to know that some of us are products of the same universities or the famous Tom Mboya Airlift in 1950s and we are still professionals. So, you can be a professional not because you have studied in your area but you can even go to those universities which are already established and which have well-done opportunity cost. Therefore, I would expect the Mover of the Motion, much as I would support it, to introduce those amendments so that we can contain those students who can even manage to get the minimum requirement of a C plus. If most of the students from those areas cannot get a C plus, how then do they go to those universities that you have established? Some of these things can be done and if it has to happen, then we have to change our requirements for university entry as we establish universities in the marginalized areas. With those few remarks, I support with amendments.
It is Sen. Ongoro.
Sen. Ongoro, I apologize.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion in its entirety. This is a Motion that was supposed to be introduced maybe 40 years ago. I want to state that this Motion is in agreement with the Government policy of decentralization. It is in tandem with Vision 2030 and it supports the spirit of the new Constitution of devolution. We cannot talk of devolution when we want to be so hard on certain core areas like education. I believe that without education, there is no manner of development that can take place in any region, area or county. Indeed, education is the key that opens all areas of development in every sphere of life. It is also true that this injustice, that I call historical, can be traced to the pre-colonial era. When the colonialists came to our country, they had preference of certain geographical areas and to certain climatic The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first of all, I need to congratulate my friend, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, for being the first Senator to introduce a Motion in this House. All of us should follow the queue so that the public can know that we are here for a purpose. Having said that, I think we should not spend a lot of time talking about the past. We have been given the authority by the people of this country to do what we think has not been done before. We should not then appear as if we have discovered that some people have been left behind forever. It is not a discovery. Everybody knows that. My tribe is Kikuyu and I come from Laikipia. My friend, Sen. Musila might think that I am doing so well just because of that name but I think time has come when we have to forget our petty wars or simply making statements for the public to hear. We are not here to serve public ears but to do a job and to deliver services to the public and not just to talk to them and tell them what we are doing by showing that we are talking strongly against The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of information, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank my colleague Sen. G.G. Kariuki for allowing me to inform him. I want to inform him that there is a Committee on Implementation which should be following the implementation of the Motions we pass in this Senate. I understand he is a Member of that Committee.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think I know better. The honorable friend thinks that I do not know. I came to Parliament before him and I know what I am talking about.
You can have 101 Motions in the Committee, but you will be talking to “stones” that will never agree with whatever you want to say. Here we have the power to pass Motions, but do we have the money to implement? Do we have the power to take somebody to task that this thing has not been done or implemented? These are the powers we need. We want to make sure that we are well armed, so that if a Motion has been passed here, it must be implemented within a specified period. If there was a way, we should have started as the Senate to give the Ministry of Education a timeframe within which this Motion should be implemented. In my view, I think that would be a very important thing to do. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we could flood universities all over the place, but there is something more important than that. Are we capable of paying for university education? Unless we decide on how to get our young people to the university, there are a lot of other things that are needed to be fulfilled by a child before they join university. The cost of university education nowadays is very high and we know it very well. There is one thing that has been omitted in the Motion, that students from the so-called marginalized areas shall be given free university facilities. If we do so, we shall appear to be doing something. But just to have a university in every county is not enough. You will The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support the Motion. I belong to the pastoral community which has lagged behind in all aspects of life because the education system in Kenya did not favour them. About 95 per cent of the people in Tana River are pastoralists. They have lagged behind in all aspects of life due to illiteracy. There is need to share all aspects of development equally, including schools and universities. I support the Motion because it would favour us. We have been suffering for long.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I beg to support the Motion because education is the key to bridging the gap between the rich and the poor. At the time of Independence, most children from the poor families had not accessed education. As we talk about education, we need to look at it in a holistic manner. First of all, we should look at it through a gender lens so that we encourage both boys and girls to enroll in schools. We must ensure that they join universities once they complete their secondary education. Currently, many girls drop out of schools due to many reasons. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are now in a new dispensation. I want to thank the former President, His Excellency hon. Mwai Kibaki for upgrading many colleges to university status. We have many universities spread all over the country. I would also like to thank former President Moi for starting many girl’s schools. However, most of our universities are not well equipped in terms of infrastructure. We need to improve on the infrastructure so that our students get quality education. Today when students in private universities fail to pay fees in full, they are forced to pay a penalty when paying in installments. So, I think it is very important to have a university in every county. At the same time, we need to have proper infrastructure in place. We also need to do a feasibility study to see whether a university in Mandera County, for example, will attract students. There was a time we were debating whether the University of Nairobi should be relocated from Nairobi to Mandera or somewhere out of the City. That was a good idea. But today we find that all the private universities are located in this City and other major towns. This is because of physical infrastructure in those towns. So, as much as we support this Motion, we must make sure that we have proper infrastructure in place. We also need to encourage students in secondary schools to work hard and join universities. I would urge our universities to focus more on science and technology because the United States of America and other countries intend to change their Immigration Acts to attract people with skills in technology. So, I think as we advocate for more universities, we need to advocate for universities that will deal with science and technology. I beg to support the Motion. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, forgiving me the opportunity to contribute to this very important Motion. Education is a good that every Kenyan seeks right from the beginning to the end. It is the one that will make a difference in terms of social and economic mobility. In this society, you will find the poorest peasant farmer selling his piece of land to take his child to school. That is why we find parents struggling to take their children to public and private institutions to ensure that they get the best quality of education. The classification of schools is very critical in the Kenyan context because the type of school you enroll your child in will determine the kind of education he will get. We have national, provincial and district schools. Parents struggle to get their children the best schools because they will be assured of joining universities. Therefore, as much as we say that we have moved away from the historical injustices, they form the basis for that particular classification. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we all know that the best 18 national schools in this country are concentrated in Kiambu and Uasin Gishu counties. This was for a very long time until the 16 secondary schools were upgraded to national level status. There was not a single national school in the coast, eastern, western and the north eastern region.
About two per cent of the University of Nairobi student population was from those schools. So, you can imagine how many of these students will make it into the university with that sort of transition rate. So, the reasoning and the importance of this classification has to be put into place. Therefore, the basis of that marginalization is felt from the word “go”. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the coast region has consistently been second from the bottom in sending both boys and girls to the universities. I am looking at the figures of public universities rather than private universities because that has changed over time. For a long time, it has been impossible for a child who has grown up in the coast region to join a public university. Maybe it is because there have not been enough role models, especially across the gender divide. Therefore, the socio-cultural issues cannot be underplayed. The reason everybody struggles to get into a national school is because of availability of facilities. In fact, for a long time, once your child is able to get a place in the national school, you knew from the word go that he will join university. He will enjoy good facilities and be guided by very qualified teachers. They are able to do research and have access to the laboratories. That is why the competition for places in national schools is so high. If you look at schools at the Coast Province, for example, Shimo la Tewa and Star of the Sea, they would have been upgraded to national level status long time ago. It took time for the Government to upgrade them. We expected them to have produced many students to join public universities. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as we think about devolving the public universities, it is critical that we devolve even the content of the public universities at the county level. As the transition and devolution has been taking place, most of the public schools have already had some sort of devolution in place in terms of courses offered at the county level. In fact, most of the public universities that have devolved at the county level are now offering the Module II Programme. The Module II Programme is an economy The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Senator, your time is up.
I beg to support.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first of all, I would like to pay tribute to the previous speaker because of the content and the emphasis she gave to the right places. Kenya is one of the most unequal countries in the world. In fact, we are ranked third after South Africa and Brazil. In South Africa, you can understand why. This is because of apartheid. You can also understand why it is so in Brazil. This is because of the Red Indians. However, I have not quite understood why it is so in Kenya; the most unequal country in the world. It is not a joke that the new Constitution was campaigned for and promulgated. In fact, what Kenyans were doing was avoiding a revolution. If we continued being an unequal society, then the poor of the poor who have nothing to lose would have destroyed the rich. That is what has brought revolutions the world all over. This country was wiser to say: “Instead of having a very disruptive revolution, we manage the revolution.” That is how we came about with this Constitution. That is how we packaged it into something called devolution. The country is watching this House to see how it will deal with the injustices that were almost at the brink of bringing a revolution. If they watch us for five years and they do not see anything happening, we will go back to where we were. Some of us have been privileged to be in this House. I have been privileged to go to school. I am also privileged to eat three meals a day. We do not want to lose that privilege. However, we will lose it if we do not sort out the social injustice in this country. Let us not pretend that when we say that we are against this community or this tribe--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would like to take this opportunity to support this Motion. I believe that education is the backbone of every aspect of life. For everything to succeed, be it development or any other, there must be quality education. Having universities or qualified institutions in every county will make students who have been marginalized to feel they are part of Kenya. It will also help parents in various counties to appreciate various aspects of education. For example, when I completed my high school education, I applied for a course in Business Administration and Commerce (B-Com). When my father asked me what I had applied for, I told him that this was a B-Com course. He told me to explain to him what this was all about. The knowledge I got from my business class made me know that commerce meant the ability to trade. I, therefore, explained to him in our mother tongue and he told me that he could also do it. That meant that the only course they appreciated was teaching, medicine and training to become a soldier. Those are the only things that they knew. So, having various universities or institutional organizations will help parents to know the various courses offered. Also, having universities in various counties will reduce travelling costs encountered by students. This will also help their accommodation costs. When one is far from his county, he is supposed to pay for accommodation by hiring a house or a hostel. So, having various universities in counties will reduce that cost. This will also help the learning of the student. By this, I mean that if you have a university in a place like Wajir County, this will help improve the quality of education for those who are in secondary schools. The students in secondary schools will feel encouraged if they see university students around them. This will help them imitate what the university students are doing. This will improve the quality of education at the county The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Bw. Naibu Spika, ningependa kukushukuru kwa kunipa nafasi hii ili kuchangia Hoja iliyo mbele yetu. Kwanza, ningependa kuiunga mkono. Bw. Naibu Spika, Hoja hii ni nzuri kwa sababu imekuja wakati unaofaa. Huu ni wakati wa kuthibiti kaunti zetu. Wakati kama huu kuna haja ya kuboresha mambo ya kielimu katika kaunti zetu. Ikiwa ni hivyo, kile tunataka sisi ni tuwe watu wa kwanza kufaidika na mbinu za kuweza kuleta vyuo vikuu karibu na watu ili iwe ni rahisi kwa watoto kuweza kusomea katika vyuo vikuu. Tunataka kuwapa nafasi wale walioko katika shule za upili kuiga mfano wa wale ambao watakuwa wakisoma katika vyuo vikuu hivyo ili kuweza kufanya bidii na kuwa na tamaa ya kujiunga na vyuo vikuu kule mashinani. Jambo hili litasaidia katika kuimarisha uchumi wa sehemu ambazo vyuo vikuu vitakuwa. Yule atakayekuwa na mbuzi wake ataweza kuuza, mwenye mboga zake ataweza kuuza kwa sababu kutakuwa na wanafunzi na wahadhiri wengi ambao watakuza uchumi wa sehemu hiyo. Bw. Naibu Spika, kama vile wengi walivyosema, si makosa ya watu wa sehemu fulani kwamba sehemu yao imebaki nyuma kimaendeleo. Ni vizuri tujifahamishe na historia ya nchi hii. Kutoka wakati wa ukoloni, kulikuwa na mipango, ikianzia na ya reli iliyowekwa kuanzia Mombasa hadi Kisumu na Laikipia, sehemu ambao Wazungu walikua wakikaa. Kwa hivyo, ilivutia wafanyakazi wengi, hasa kutoka mikoa ya Magharibi na Nyanza, ambao walikua wakifanya kaza aidha kama wapagazi ama kwa Wazungu. Kwa hivyo, kulikuwa na nafasi ya watu kuweza kusoma wakati huo. Lakini sisi watu wa Kaskazini Mashariki, hasa ile sehemu iliyojulikana kama “ NorthernFrontier District ” (NFD) – ambayo ilijumlisha sehemu za Lodwar, Samburu, Isiolo, Garissa, Wajir, Mandera, Moyale na Marsabit – ilibaki nyuma kimaendeleo. Shule ya kwanza iliyoanzishwa na Serikali ya ukoloni ilianzishwa 1948 kule Isiolo. Baada ya hio, ikahama ikaenda Garissa katika mwaka wa 1949 na mwisho ikapelekwa Wajir. Na watoto hawa katika hizi wilaya zote, walikua wakienda Wajir kupata masomo ya shule ya upili. Sehemu zingine za nchi, wamishenari ndio walianzisha elimu – hata si Serikali ya Ukoloni. Wale ambao walikua katika dini ya Ukristo walikuwa na nafasi nzuri ya kuweza kusoma katika shule hizo. Isitoshe, Bw. Naibu Spika, hii Sessional Paper No.10 ilitengezwa na afisa wa upangaji wakati Waziri wa Mipango alikuwa Tom Mboya. Tom Mboya alitoka wapi? Yeye alitoka Mkoa wa Nyanza. Yeye alipanga kuwa nyanda za juu za Kenya ndio zitafanyiwa maendeleo zaidi kuliko zile sehemu ambazo zilisemekana sio productive kwa Kizungu; yaani hazizalishi kitu chochote ambacho kinaweza kusaidia uchumi wa nchi hii. Isitoshe, tuchukue kalamu na karatasi tuangalie Wizara ya Elimu ilikua inaongozwa na nani. Seneti hii inatakikana iwaunganishe Wakenya wote kutoka sehemu zote za nchi. Na kama kuna shida, tuizungumzie pahali ilipo bila ya sisi kuzungumza juu ya sehemu fulani ambayo inalenga kabila fulani. Hiyo haitakua vizuri kwa sisi. Ni lazima tuwe na mfano mzuri kwa wananchi wote wa Kenya. Sisi tunataka kuwaunganisha Wakenya wote ila si kuwatenga wengine kama mjadala huu unavyowalenga watu kutoka Mlima Kenya na kwingineko. Mimi sitoki Mlima Kenya, lakini ukweli lazima usemwe; watu wa sehemu The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me an opportunity to contribute to this very important Motion. I also want to thank my good friend, the bull fighter, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, for being the very first Senator to bring a Motion to this Senate. A Motion on a very important subject, that is education. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am supporting the Motion on principle. Education is no longer a privilege to be enjoyed by a few rich and powerful people. Education is a basic human right to be enjoyed by all Kenyans irrespective of their economic, social or political status. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the core business of this Senate is to make sure that all the counties in this country are developed; it is to ensure that we correct the historical injustices and ensure that there is even distribution of development in all the counties. I think that is the spirit in which this Motion is brought. It is in that spirit that we are supporting this Motion. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not want to go into history, but it is obvious that there have been both historical and geographical disparities in the distribution of institutions of higher education in this country. There have been glaring disparities in the concentration of universities and the top schools; mostly following the so-called white highlands. But, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think my friend, Dr. Khalwale, seems to be having misconceived ideas about an area called Mt. Kenya region. There is no such a region in any map of this country. Mt. Kenya is a mountain, just like Mt. Elgon. Even these regions we are talking about – Western, Nyanza and Coast provinces have all been abolished by the Constitution. We should now be talking about counties. Talk about Bungoma County, Kakamega County, Turkana County, Meru County, Laikipia County, Nyandarua County, et cetera . That way, we can understand each other. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if we unpack that broad, vague formula called Mt. Kenya, you could find out how many public universities are there in Kirinyaga County; for instance, you will find there is none. As I speak, if you go to Embu County, how many public universities are there? It is only this last weekend that Sen. Kivuti went there to organize their people, so that they can open the first university in Embu County. As for Nairobi County, of course, everybody is in Nairobi. There are more Luhyas in Nairobi than in Meru, so you cannot complain about Nairobi. Nairobi ni yetu sisi sote . So, the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following amendment to this Motion in line with Standing Order No.52. THAT, the words “and middle level technical college” be inserted immediately after the word “university” or “universities,” respectively wherever they appear in the text of the Motion. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while we all appreciate the importance of universities, middle level technical colleges are actually the reason our progress towards industrialization is slowed. It is also for the same reason that most of the roads constructed by our local engineers, due to lack of high quality clerks of works or middle level technicians that they break apart to the extent that we invite these Chinese to build our roads. It is for the same reason that we are not making our own vehicles or making our own computers. Industrialization is lagging behind because the critical mass of personnel with technical know-how other than at the university level are lacking in this country. To the detriment of what I have just said, the middle level universities are now being swallowed because they are being converted to universities. Even in the regions that have been endowed, most of those technical colleges are now universities. I would like to move so that the whole amendment reads as follows:- THAT aware that during the first years after Independence the best public schools were established in certain regions of Kenya to the exclusion of other regions resulting in such regions having undue advantage in producing educated manpower; appreciating that the introduction of the devolved system of government in the Constitution of Kenya 2010 was aimed at achieving equalization of development and other opportunities including education across the country, noting that the Government has lately embarked on establishing more public universities and middle level technical colleges in the country; concerned that the majority of public universities and middle level colleges are currently concentrated in a few regions of the country to the exclusion of the rest of the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I come here to second the Motion and the amendment to the Motion on the basis that we all realize that education plays the most critical role in terms of our development agenda. In fact, during the civil rights movement of the United States of America (USA), many believed that equality can be best be promoted through education. For me, I do not think it is just about the physical structure called the university as alluded to by some of our colleagues, hon. Senators. I do believe that the university and the middle level colleges will act as fodder for development. If you look at many countries which are developed, there is a certain college in that county or city. So, the university or middle level college acts as the engine for growth. It is the support given that leads the university to grow and make the area into an urbanized area. This is the kind of manpower that we will need to ensure that our country and devolved structures are sufficiently capacitated by the right technical expertise and the right professionals who will equip us with the right formula and human resource that will drive the engine of devolution. Therefore, university education will no longer be termed as a privilege. In fact, all over the country today, the basic minimum requirement for many positions is the university degree. Even the Senate was once taunted to set a basic minimum of a university degree. If you look at the reasons advanced by the Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SRC), is that the Senators and the Members of the National Assembly do not hold a minimum of university degree or any particular qualification. Therefore, they do not hold merit or any particular consideration in terms of professionalism. Education has grown into a right; education is a right. I know that Mombasa is not taken to be marginalized. But for all intents and purposes, the local communities in Mombasa have been marginalized. That is why we see the kind of social discomfort that has led to some youths organizing or mobilizing around certain themes like marginalization and exclusion. So, these universities and tertiary institutions or technical colleges that are set up in the counties must have a deliberate quota that tends to satisfy the needs of that locality. There must be programmes of affirmative action even if the standards of education do not grow at the same momentum, but there can be certain bridging courses that can be instituted to facilitate admission to these universities. It would defeat the purpose to have a university in Mandera, Garissa or any other part of the country, but the local communities are unable to gain admission. Therefore, there must be a proviso in the law that allows the local community to have a certain quota that is guaranteed through scholarships and financing of the central government and county governments to ensure that everybody receives quality education that can satisfy the goal of devolution. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rose to second this Motion because I know the critical and central nature of education. Many of us remain marginalized because of the lack of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, hon. Senators! I am proceeding under Standing Order No.53(2) and I want to propose the Question.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me the opportunity to support that amendment. I do support the main Motion of establishing a university in every county. However, if you see the trend in our country in the last five or ten years, there has been a move, I do not know whether it is by the Government or all of us, to actually kill the technical colleges. When you look at what used to be Kenya Polytechnic, it is now a university. What used to be called Mombasa Polytechnic is gone. We had colleges of science and technology in Murang’a, Kiambu, Western and so on, but they are now gone. When you look at it, the net effect of killing these middle level technical colleges is that the professionals, for example, in engineering, it is becoming easier to get a graduate in engineering than to get a holder of a diploma or a higher national diploma. Yet these are people who do the actual work in construction and design. These people are slowly getting finished in our country. The reason we shall continue looking for technicians from China is because we seem to have missed the point. Everyone is now going for a degree, but when you go to other countries like in the United Kingdom which we are supposed to copy from, they still value their diplomas and higher national diplomas. They still have programmes of people who did their diplomas moving to the higher national diploma and then degrees after years of technical experience in the industry. What we are doing in our country is that we are killing the support technology which is supposed to work hand in hand with the so called professionals at the top. If you look at the quality of degrees that we have now, I only have an ordinary degree that is Bachelor of Science (BSc). But when I talk to people who did BSc and went ahead to MBA and we talk about engineering in terms of improving our production, with all due respect to everybody concerned, very often you will find that you are not getting the difference. That person who did MBA---
As you are aware, this Motion is supposed to go for three hours, but we have an amendment in place. Again, as you are aware we have to vote on the amendment first before we conclude the main Motion. So, I am constrained by time and I have to put the Question. Hon. Senators, as you recall at the commencement of this debate the Speaker made a ruling that this is a Motion that affects counties. In that case, the voting will be by delegations and there will have to be a roll call. So, at this time on this Motion, I order that the Division Bell be rung so that we can take a roll call on the voting of the amendment to the Motion.
The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This is just a question of procedure. Do I understand that we are proceeding to vote on the Motion before the Mover has been called upon to reply?
On the amendment.
Right now we are only dealing with the amendment.
Okay. Sorry, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Ring the Division Bell!
Order, hon. Senators! The Division Bell has been rung. I now direct that the doors to the Chamber be locked and the Bars drawn. If we do not have Bars, then the door should be locked. The tellers are Sen. Hassan for the CORD Coalition and Sen. Sang for the Jubilee Coalition. Please, take your positions.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This Senate is now building its own practice and traditions. You just said that you have named tellers for the Jubilee Coalition and for the CORD Coalition. Probably, you want to think about this. Some of us think that you are referring to the tellers for the Majority and the tellers for the Minority. Traditionally, in Parliament, we do not vote using parties.
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, however you look at it, the end will be the same. We have two tellers. Whatever you call them, they are the ones who will conduct the voting. I understand and hear you and, perhaps, in the future, we will look at it differently. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I consulted Sen. Kanainza and she asked me to vote yes.
Sen. Khaniri, Vihiga County.
You will take note that the next would have been Makueni County. So, I will move on to Kiambu County. Sen. Njoroge, Kiambu County; Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, Tharaka Nithi County; Sen. Mbuvi, Nairobi County; Sen. Kivuti, Embu County; Sen. Munyes, Turkana County; Sen. Dr. Kuti Isiolo County; Sen. Lesang, Bomet County; Sen. Leshore, Samburu County; Lonyangapuo, West Pokot County; Sen. Dr. Machage, Migori County; Sen. Madzayo, Kilifi County; Sen. Melly, Uasin Gishu County; Sen. Moi, Baringo County; Sen. Mositet, Kajiado County; Sen. Mungai, Nakuru County; Sen. Muriuki, Nyandarua County; Sen. Murkomen, Elgeyo Marakwet; Sen. Murungi, Meru County; Sen.Musila, Kitui County; Sen. Kagwe, Nyeri County; Sen. Muthama, Machakos County; Sen. Mwakulegwa, Taita Taveta County; Sen. Ndiema, Trans Nzoia County; Sen. Ntutu, Narok County; Sen. (Prof) Anyang’-Nyong’o, Kisumu County; Sen. Obure, Kisii County; Sen. Okongo, Nyamira County; Sen. Orengo, Siaya County; Sen. Sang, Nandi County; Sen. Wako, Busia County; and, Sen. Wetangula, Bungoma County---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. There are some Senators who are not with us here and yet they supported the Motion. How will you handle this?
Sen. G.G. Kariuki, you have been in this House for a very long time. If a Member is not present so as to vote, you cannot give the power of an attorney to vote. The best you can do is to designate somebody to vote on your behalf. I think this has now become clearer. Some votes were lost because no designations were made as to who could vote in a delegation. If you are not in this House, you cannot vote and you have no vote. You cannot also give the power of attorney so that anybody votes on your behalf. The best you can do is to designate the head of the delegation. I had made a ruling on that issue earlier.
Hon. Senators, as you may be aware, in the earlier ruling that the Speaker made; for a Motion related to counties to pass, there must be, at least, 24 Ayes. Therefore, the Motion to amend is lost.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
The doors may be opened now. What point of order do you have, Sen. (Dr.) Machage?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you realize many hon. Senators wanted to make their contributions to this Motion. Would I be in order, therefore, to request that we do not vote today and continue debating and we do the voting tomorrow?
Three hours are over!
Order! We have voted already for the amendment.
For the main Motion?
For the main Motion, you can make that proposal.
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Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is not that I want to contradict you, but I just want to comment on Standing Order No.51. Realizing the risk we are headed to, I would like to move under Standing Order No.51(3), which I may read:- “Despite paragraph (2), the Speaker may, on the request of a Senator, defer the putting of the question to the following day in which case the Speaker shall thereupon nominate a time at which the question shall be put.” Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am rising on this point of order to request that as soon as the Leader of the Majority finishes and when the time for putting the Question is due, you apply Standing Order No.51(3) so that we vote on a different day.
I want to propose that the Leader of the Majority responds now and that can come with that so that we deal with the voting afterwards. As I said earlier, I am giving you a maximum of only five minutes.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to take this opportunity on behalf of the Government to thank Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale for bringing this Motion before this House. I also want to take this opportunity to thank all those Senators who have contributed in support of this Motion. I have not heard any of the Senators dissenting to this Motion.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the consultations are a bit loud.
Could you, please, consult quietly?
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. So, I thank those who have contributed and the Mover of this Motion as well. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also thank the determination of the Chair that this is a Motion that relates to concerns of the counties. In the coming days, we know or we believe that the Constitution or the Standing Orders will be interpreted liberally, so as to find as many matters as possible that relate to counties if the Senate is to discharge its duties of being the protector of the interests of counties and county governments. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Motion, to me, is the first salvo that has been shot; that the Senate of the Republic of Kenya has began its work in earnest. For that, we are grateful to its Mover and those who have supported it. We have began our work in matters education. I just want to quickly say that the Jubilee Coalition Government and the President of the Republic of Kenya support enhanced access to education, the relevance of that education, the quality of that education as well as the affordability of that education. This was well articulated by the Mover of this Motion as well as those as those who contributed in support of this Motion. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Your time is up!
Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my time is up. I am about to end, but allow me to---
Order, Senator! Your time is up!
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Does the Senate Minority Leader wish to contribute?
I will speak on another matter later if you will allow me.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am being nagged by my colleagues that they are not sure about your decision on the voting. Can I proceed and you will sort it out at the end of my contribution?
Order! My decision on the voting is final. I have done it and that is it.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. We have just voted and lost a very important amendment to this Motion. In doing so, I think we overlooked the provisions of Standing Order No.68. Where thresholds are set clearly in the Standing Orders or in the law, like if we had brought a constitutional Bill, we will only go to vote if the Chair and the House is satisfied that we have a requisite minimum requirement. We should have not gone to vote in the first place The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is on the same line, but with a different angle to it and to support what Sen. Wetangula has stated. We are dealing with a situation which is new to the jurisprudence of this House on matters of voting. It is my view that we should develop a rule that would require that any matter that requires voting, especially where now we know--- Because in the Lower House, even if you were eight Members, so long as somebody does not raise a quorum issue, a vote would pass and we would shout. We did not have to vote per delegation and be there physically. We would develop a culture in which we can say that debate can go on and be closed, but a date and time be set for voting. It happens like that in many jurisdictions. The debate ends and you are told, for example, on Thursday at 2.30 p.m., we are voting on this issue and you will see all Members coming to vote and then they can go and do their other business. Some people fly from abroad to come and vote and go back to their business. I wish we did that because this now makes it very important that as many Senators as possible come to the House even when it is overwhelmingly supported. Like the Motion that we have just debated can be lost and we all cry that we have lost a very good component of it. But if we go on like this we are going to lose the entire Motion and if we do, I think the public will laugh at us; that we have made rules that are hindering our own participation in national debate and development. So, like Sen. Wetangula has urged, we can finish the debate and set a date for the voting. The Clerk will then inform all Senators that we are going to vote on this Motion on this date, at this time. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. In view of the fact that we find ourselves in this quagmire, is it really in order for us to expect the Chair to play the role of Chief Whips, who should make sure that an important Motion like this one is attended to by hon. Senators when it comes to voting? Secondly, in view of the seriousness of this matter, I have a seen a letter you have written to say there will be an opportunity for us to amend the Standing Orders. Maybe this is the opportunity we should use to amend the Standing Orders so that we revert to the “yes” or “nay” type of voting instead of calling out the names.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to give another angle to the issue raised by Sen. Wetangula and Sen. Kajwang. There is a lot of jurisprudential value in what Sen. Wetangula was requesting you to make a decision on, particularly when it comes to the importance in future decisions. Considering the weighty nature of the decision we are about to make, is it in order to request you to sleep over this matter and give a more weighty ruling tomorrow?
Hon. Senators, there is nothing for me to sleep over, if you think about this issue dispassionately. At the beginning of the vote, I indicated that the vote would be by the heads of the delegation or by a duly designated member of that delegation. At the beginning of this session this afternoon, the Speaker always starts by confirming whether or not there is a quorum. It is up to hon. Senators thereafter to raise the issue of quorum if there is no quorum. But at the time that we called this matter to vote, there was and there is still quorum in the House. The Speaker has no way of knowing how you are going to vote or whether or not, you, as heads of delegations have been designated to vote in a particular manner. If you count the number of hon. Senators in the Chamber this afternoon, you will see that we are well over the threshold. Therefore, we proceeded to vote blindly expecting that we would have a “yes” or “no” or whatever other result there would be. That is the reason I say that there is really nothing to sleep over. The thing we need to sleep over on is whether or not we need to amend our Standing Orders, so that we deal with situations like this one. This is the first time we have had to deal with this situation in this House. It is important to recognize the importance of rules and regulations as drawn in the Standing Orders. I want to emphasise to, you, hon. Senators, to make sure that when important Motions like these are on the Floor of the House and you know you will not be present that you appoint an hon. member of your delegation who is present in this House. It is upon you, as the head of the delegation, to write to the Speaker and indicate who you have designated to vote on a matter in your absence. It is unfortunate that it has been lost, but we counted everybody who voted. But there were Senators in this House, who are still here who did not vote because they did not have the right to vote under the Standing Orders. Therefore, the matter must rest at that.
What is your point of order, Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Allow me to re- emphasize the point of order raised by Sen. Wetangula. With all due respect, I think the explanation you have given is slightly outside what Sen. Wetangula was saying. He says at the point where we are starting to vote as a House, is there a way or can we establish a way or should the Chair go out of his way to establish that, in the House, there is that threshold. I think that is the point; not that the numbers are not there. Even if it meant that all the delegates stay on one side of the House and the non-delegates on the other side so that, at least, before we go through that whole motion of voting, we make sure that we have enough delegations. If, in fact, it happens that there are some heads of delegation who are not here and there are some Senators who could very well have been given that mandate, but they were not given – that is a different story. We should not have proceeded, looking at the point raised, if we had counted the delegations and we saw we do not have 24, I think that is the point.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I stand to support what my colleagues have said. I have a lot of respect for the ruling you have made. But, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think we should make it a practice from now on that before such a vote takes place, it is incumbent upon the Clerk to ascertain whether that threshold of voting – not of the quorum - is there before we undertake any vote. I think this being the first time that we have taken a vote, we are all learning; it is a new Chamber. It is a new Senate and I think the Clerk will also be learning that before such a vote is taken, he must satisfy and inform the Speaker whether the threshold for voting exists before we undertake that exercise. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I plead with you that you still sleep over the matter, as my colleague Senator has said.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the rule is that when a Senator wants to delegate to another Senator for the purposes of voting, a letter is written to you. I, therefore, believe that if there was any such delegation, you had the letter. Indeed, it so appears that you had none. So, what actually you have proved is that the threshold had not been met before the voting. Would I, therefore, be in order – on the Standing Order as quoted by Sen. Wetangula and the others – to request you sincerely to set a good precedent for this House that we do not vote today? In any case, we are still learning. Please, listen to us.
On a point of order; you being an immensely experienced lawyer, I want to invite you to read three Standing Orders No.1(2), 51(3) and No.68(c). Let me read them loud for the benefit of the Chamber.
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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Standing Orders No.1(2), 51(3) and 68(3). Let me read them aloud for the benefit of the House. Standing Order No.1(2) refers to cases not provided for. The most important bit is:- “The decisions made in paragraph (1) shall be based on the Constitution of Kenya, statute law and the usages, forms, precedents, customs, procedures and traditions of the Parliament of Kenya and other jurisdictions to the extent that these are applicable in Kenya.” This falls in sync with the submission of Sen. Murkomen that you give us a reasoned ruling that will form part of our precedent for the future. Standing Order No.51(3) gives the Chair the discretion, with the advice of the Clerk or on your own Motion, you could have put off the vote by not putting the question, under that Standing Order, which on the issue of the amendment we have passed, but on the issue of the main Motion we have not. Standing Order No.68(3) is the one that gives you the threshold. So we are inviting you to combine the three Standing Orders and not give us a ruling ex tempo, but to give us a ruling that will go into the annals of our precedents for the future, for the use of this Chamber and the next Chamber on matters of this nature.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is you lawyers who say that when you read sections of the law, you should always try and stretch to read them alongside with other sections. Sen. Wetangula has left out a very important thing. I just want to augment. That is Standing Order No.1---
Sen.(Dr.) Khwalwale, you only have one minute before the rise of the House, if you expect me to make a ruling on this issue.
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, alongside what Sen. Wetangula has said, there is Standing Order No.1(1). This Standing Order was deliberately put there to continuously remind you of the immense powers that you have. I am requesting that as you rule on Sen. Wetangula’s submissions, because of the immense powers you have under Standing Order No.1(1), and in view of the importance of the amended Motion moved by Sen. (Dr.) Kuti, the Chair applies Standing 1(1), so that if we come back for a proper voting, we reconsider that law. For your information Albert Einstein went through a technical college in Germany and he became what he became. So, technical colleges are part and parcel of these universities. I beg that you consider rescinding your decision and that of the House on the earlier Motion.
Hon. Senators, I had made a ruling on this issue. But considering that there are some weighty issues that have been raised by hon. Senators, and considering the seriousness of the amendment that was proposed by Sen.(Dr.) Kuti, I shall consider the issue and give you a Considered Ruling on this matter. In the meantime, on the main Motion, and since we have not voted on it and he had requested that the voting be deferred, I also order that this debate be deferred for voting purposes, if need be pursuant to the ruling that shall be made, to tomorrow morning, after or before the Motion that is listed on the Order Paper. The Chair orders accordingly.
Order, hon. Senators! Like an hon. Senator said, we are all learning, which is a major process. We need to adjourn first.
Hon. Senators, it is now time for the adjournment of the Senate. The Senate stands adjourned to tomorrow, Wednesday, 8th May, 2013 at 9.00 a.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.