Order! Hon. Senators, could we confirm if we have a quorum?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have 15 hon. Senators in the House. We have a quorum
Let us proceed.
Senate Majority Leader! Who was contributing to this Motion when debate was interrupted?
Sen.(Prof.) Kindiki: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had moved the Motion. However, negotiations were going on.
Let us have Sen. Wetangula!
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to oppose this Motion. When we commenced business in the Senate, there was a general unwritten agreement to approach business in a bi-partisan manner. We agreed, and we have demonstrated by conduct, that in more ways than one, the interests of the Senate are supreme. We should not engage in a manner that demonstrates intolerance and one that stifles hon. Senators’ freedom of expression. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we listened to my learned friend, the Senate Majority Leader, move the Motion. He singled out one incident that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, Senator for Kakamega County, in so many words, was comforting “enemies”; that he had proposed a Senator from the opposite camp to become a chairman of a committee. We forgive our colleague because he is new to this kind of business. Practice has it that once hon. Senators are assigned committees, they go to the committees to serve the interests of the Senate, the country and for that matter the counties for which we are responsible. Perhaps, if my learned friend was advised of what happened in other committees, he may re-think the trajectory he has taken, which, in my humble view, is unhelpful, destructive and does not build bi-partisan bridges that we are looking for. It should not be lost. For example, I am a member of the Senate Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations. I lead the minority in this House yet I proposed Sen. Haji, from the Majority, to be the Chairman of the Committee. James Orengo, Senator for Siaya County seconded the appointment of Sen. Haji to be the Chairman of the Committee. I do not think we did anything wrong because we are approaching this process with the interest of the Senate, counties and the country at heart, not narrow partisan interests that are totally unhelpful. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the same committee, Sen. Haji, Senator for Garissa County seconded Nominated Senator, Sen. Ongoro, as the Vice Chair. Why is Sen. Haji not being de-whipped for doing that if what Sen.(Dr.) Khalwale did was wrong? You cannot be selective in deciding what is right and what is not. Sen. Ongoro did not win, but I know that Sen. Haji seconded her proposal to be the Vice Chair of that committee. We were all happy that it was a fair contest. It was democratic and open in the manner we conducted our business. But the vote was secret and we moved on. Mr. Speaker, Sir, if we want to build this country, the greatest enemy of our progress has always been intolerance; that because I hold a view inimical to your feelings, I am an enemy. In fact, the Mover of the Motion used very unguarded language against Sen.(Dr.) Khalwale. I want to encourage that we do not engage in this kind of conduct of business in this House. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the other committees where members of the Majority are chairing--- In fact, for this particular committee, we have not even elected the Chair. This is still pending. If yesterday I attended the Rules and Business Committee, I would have opposed the Committee approving such a misguided Motion because we are setting The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
He is out of order!
What is out of order?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. Kerrow?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, is the hon. Senator in order to talk of a Motion which is not before this House? The Motion before this House is the appointment of Sen. Elachi and Sen. Bule to two respective committees. There is no Motion before this House that the hon. Senator is debating. The Chair should protect us from this kind of a discussion.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you read this Motion, it starts by de-whipping Sen.(Dr.) Khalwale.
It does not!
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It does not!
What is to replace an hon. Senator?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, Senator for Mandera County! You raised your point of order.
I have another point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have not even responded to his point of order.
Same to you, hon. Senator for Bungoma County! The two of you cannot treat this House to an altercation between yourselves! That is why it is a House of rules. You speak and if another hon. Senator raises a point of order, you respond and then the Chair will dispose the matter. So, respond and I will allow the Senator for Mandera County to have another point of order.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am absolutely relevant. If you read this Motion, it de-whips Sen.(Dr.) Khalwale, that is why he is being replaced. For those hon. Senators who are new and who are not schooled in the language of law, to replace and de-whip are one and the same in these circumstances. That is why Sen.(Dr.) Khalwale is being replaced because he has been de-whipped. The Mover of the Motion---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
For heaven’s sake, I am responding to a point of order! The Mover of the Motion, and the HANSARD will be bear me out---
Hon. Senator for Bungoma County, you will do well when you respond and not invite more points of order. It is the manner in which you are responding that is attracting these points of order.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The HANSARD will bear me out that the Mover of the Motion mentioned Sen.(Dr.) Khalwale when he was moving the Motion. He went on to say he was now nominating the two hon. Senators to be members of these committees. Indeed, Sen. Elachi is being nominated, not to increase the numbers of the committee beyond those allowed by the law, she is being nominated to replace Sen.(Dr.) Khalwale because he conducted himself in a manner that was not tolerable by his leadership.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. Kerrow?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, with all due respect to you, we have to replace the position left by our departed brother in the different committees. To do this, we must bring a Motion to replace him with another hon. Senator. We will not bring a Motion to discuss whether or not that person is being replaced. The Motion before us clearly says that the Senate approves the following nominees. Sen.(Dr.) Khalwale has already been replaced under Standing Order No.178, which does not require to be debated in this House. The Whip, acting on Standing Order No.178, has already removed him from that committee. The issue before this House is the appointment of the two hon. Senators. Whether or not that can be considered as terror in the language that Sen. Wetangula has used, is really not acceptable. We cannot be told that appointing two distinguished hon. Senators to two committees is a terrorist act. That is not acceptable to us.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I referred to an instrument of terror. That is not terrorism.
Order, Senators! Indeed, the Motion is seeking to bring in two Members to the respective Committees. However, it is equally true, to some extent that the basis of that replacement, which is indicated in the Motion, is to replace. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise on a point of order to seek guidance from you regarding the interpretation of Standing Order No.178 which in full reads; 178(1) “A Parliamentary party that nominated a Senator to a select committee may give notice, in writing, to the Chairperson of the Rules and Business Committee that the Senator is to be discharged from a select committee.” All that is required is for the parliamentary party to give notice to you, Mr. Speaker, seated as the Chairperson of the Rules and Business Committee that a certain Senator is to be discharged from a certain committee. 178(2) “The discharge of that Senator shall not take effect until upon receipt by the Chairperson of the notice under paragraph (1).” So, the removal of my friend, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, does not require any Motion in this House. All it requires is a notice to you. Upon receipt of that notice, the man ceases to be a member of that Committee. So, the only Motion that can be before us is about what happens after that because for you to be a member of the Committee, you must be approved by the House. We seek your guidance considering that the issue of Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale cannot be brought by the Senate Minority Leader to the Floor. He can only talk about appointment of Senator Beatrice Elachi. Dr. Khalwale’s matter is finished and closed.
On a point of order!
Let me just dispose of this matter. I think it is important for us to be clear. I will entertain all your points of order including that from my good friend, Senator for Migori. Standing Order No.178 does not require any interpretation, it is self evident. You can read it for yourself. The language is clear. It is not ambiguous. That matter, in terms of discharging a Senator from a committee has been disposed off. It is only that as a consequence of that, that the same Senator must be replaced by another Senator. So, what we are dealing with is replacing the Members who have been proposed in the normal way that we constitute Committees and bring Members’ names to the Floor of the House. In all fairness, the Senate Minority Leader, whipping and replacing do not mean the same thing. You can replace and constitute for different reasons but not because of de- whipment. This happened in this particular case. So, in terms of the substance of the Motion, let us deal with this. The Standing Orders require that if you contribute to a Motion, you must be relevant. While I appreciate that you can mention other things in passing, surely, you cannot dwell, during your entire contribution, on a matter that is not before the House. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. With all due respect, what we are seeing at play now is the lack of previous experience. Is the hon. Senator for Meru in order to mislead the House about the removal of my name and why it cannot be mentioned while with the benefit of the HANSARD, the few Members who were in this House, who have had an opportunity to sit in the House Business Committee – you will remember that I have previously sat in this Committee for five years? Every time you introduce a new Member after the initial exercise has been done, it has been and it is evident in the HANSARD, in the Lower House that the person moving the Motion must account for why a change is being introduced in that particular membership of the Committee. It is for that reason that I find it perfectly in order that the Senate Minority Leader mentioned why the replacement was being done and brought up my name. Similarly, hon. Wetangula is perfectly in order to refer to it. It is not like we are hanging to a Committee. We want to follow the rule of law. Is he in order to mislead the House?
Sen. Khalwale, you are the one misleading the House. The Senator for Meru was very clear about the Standing Order that he was quoting. After saying that, the matter has already been disposed and that is a fact. The communication was made to the Chairman of the Rules and Business Committee. I can confirm that. It says that this shall not take effect until upon receipt by the Chairperson. So, once the Chairperson received the communication, then your matter was disposed of. Let us not repeat this because there is no amount of English that will clarify this matter. It is very clear in my mind that the Motion is about replacing Members. You give a reason in passing but a Member dwelling on peripheral matters cannot form the core basis of the argument. That is the point. Proceed, Sen. Wetangula.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for protecting me and saying that I was relevant. Indeed, I am relevant. I am opposing the nomination of Sen. Beatrice Elachi to the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs because it is irrational, unprocedural, dictatorial, unfair and contrary to the rules of natural justice. The removal of Dr. Khalwale to be replaced by Sen. Elachi--- I have no doubt, I am being relevant.
There you are relevant.
The removal of Dr. Khalwale, contrary to the rules of natural justice – I consulted with Dr. Khalwale and found out that they did not even ask him to explain. They did not even give him a hearing and yet we are being told that---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are being taken back to the same arguments that we went through today. You have ruled that Standing Order No.178 does not require any interpretation. Therefore, if my learned friend, Sen. Wetangula, has an issue with Sen. Elachi being in that Committee, that is a different issue and has no annexure to the fact that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has been discharged. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is no longer a member of that Committee. The sooner we realize that, the better. Therefore, the only issue outstanding now is whether or not the Senator for Tana River and nominated Senator Beatrice Elachi are competent and able to discharge their duties in those two Committees if they are appointed but their The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we will not subject you to rule on every mundane issue. That, obviously, is not a point of order. It was a point of argument.
Order, Sen. Wetangula! While I agree that I do not have to rule on every matter, neither does that confer to you the reason to give the same ruling.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, those of us with the benefit of sharing Parliament with the late hon. Martin Shikuku knows that we need to have some light moments in this House. We cannot just be serious on every issue. You will remember how Martin Shikuku used to conduct business. I have just said that I am opposing the nomination of Sen. Elachi, not because she is incompetent – I have great respect for her – but because the procedure being used to bring her to the Committee, obviously, is irrational, like I said. That is why I am opposing it. I have no difficulty with Sen. Ali Bule. But in fact I have serious difficulties with Sen. Ali Bule as well.
This is because he is also a beneficiary of the de-whipping of Dr. Khalwale. He is also a beneficiary of grave injustice. I want to urge you, Senators, that if you value the future of this House, you reject these nominations and compel the Senate Leader of the Majority to go back and reinstate the de-whipped Senator to his position. Just like I said, we want to face the work of this country, through this Senate, in a manner that takes the interest of our country first. We want to be above narrow partisan thinking. I want to urge every Member who will speak on this issue, those who are right-thinking, to support the fact that the two Senators are being nominated to these Committees to benefit from a flawed process and from an injustice. If that injustice is left to live, the future of this Senate and the conduct of our work will be at stake. I beg to oppose.
Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to oppose this Motion. I want to start by thanking the Senate Leader of the Majority for putting my name, in the first place, in these committees. For the benefit of this House and the entire country, I never, ever, approached the Senate Majority Leader so as to have my name put in this Committee. When the Senate Majority Leader was purporting to be putting my names in these committees, my names were already in those committees anyway. The Senate Leader of the Majority circulated a form where he asked Senators to complete and propose the committees that they wanted to join. Hon. Muthama did the same and I submitted by names to him. Sen. Muthama put my names on this list. That is a fact. I would like it to be abundantly clear that I hold all the Senators with immense respect and I have no doubt that anyone of them can serve in this Committee. I would be the first person to vote for Sen. Beatrice to be, not just in this Committee but in any other Committee and so would I vote for hon. Sen. Billow Kerrow. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My point of order is about relevance.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am very relevant. It is this experience that I use to persuade, beg and cajole colleague Senators to see the value of me being the Chair of the Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs Committee. I am not in any way demeaning you. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this particular one of the Committee on Implementation, if the real reason I am being replaced is because I proposed Sen. Orengo, I have no regrets because of partly what Sen. Wetangula has said and the other part is what I am about to say: In the Committee of Agriculture, Lands and Natural Resources which voted before my committee voted, Sen. Khaniri proposed Sen. Kivuti. Sen. Khaniri is a member of UDF. When Sen. Khaniri’s time came and he counted his support on Sen. Kivuti, it was not forthcoming. Secondly, in the Committee of Legal Affairs and Human Rights is where there is more drama and Senators would like to know this. Sen. Wako went unopposed. The reason why he went unopposed is one of the reasons I have refused to step down for Sen. Kerrow Billow because the Senate Majority Leader had the audacity to come and create a quid pro quo between me and Sen. Wako. Allow me to say it in Kiluhya!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to speak in Kiswahili. With due respect, allow me to mention in Kiswahili; “ Kwa sababu wewe ni Mluhya, we would like that we give Sen. Wako the committee on legal and you step down.”
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. We are listening carefully but is the hon. Senator in order to try to belittle regional balancing as a fact that should be taken in place when constituting committees?
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I think you should have hidden what the Senator for Meru told you. While I appreciate the regional depths in terms of your beloved bullfighting drama, maybe just minimize it for purposes of this Motion.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would not therefore wish to dwell further on the difference between ethnicity and regionalism. Mr. Speaker, Sir, what offended me most as a believer in democracy is that Sen. Wako in the presence of the Senate Majority Leader, Sen. Wako, called me and told me that they are in a meeting with the Senate Majority Leader and other people. So, they wanted me to step down.
Kwa Hoja ya Nidhamu. Nafikiri tuko hapa kwa haja muhimu ya kufanya shughuli muhimu ya Seneti. Hatuko hapa kusikiliza lugha nyingi.
Hon. Senators, I am not trying to waste your time.
You are not wasting time!
It is good that you see the background of this mistake that we want to create in the history of the Senate. As a result of that, Sen. Wako became the Chair. So, if it was right for the Senate Majority Leader to help Sen. Wako to become a chair of the Legal Affairs and Human Rights committee, what is wrong in me assisting The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beseech the Members of this House to listen to me. We are a House of the wise and indeed the Upper House---
I am looking at the Order, then I will respond to you.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I very much understand the matter of the Motion. The matter of the Motion is for Sen. Elachi and Sen. Ali Abdi Bule to be appointed to these committees and be approved by this House. In the Motion moved by the Senate Majority Leader, he introduced issues that cannot go undebated. We chose Sen. (Dr.) Kuti as our Chairman and we gave him all the nine votes. He is not a Member of my party but we thought he was fit for that position. We made a mistake in ignoring a very competent person who has actually served in the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs and who is very experienced in the labour movement to serve as Deputy Chairperson. I congratulate her for that. However, this House should not forget that proper leadership will give us the mileage of respect. We should not throw away experience and expertise and ability to lead to replace it with matters of parties and self-gratification. Otherwise, this House will make blunders when we go out there to the international community with a chairman who is not even fit to lead but because of party strength, he was chosen as a chairman of that parliamentary committee. You will be so ashamed.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for Sen. (Dr.) Machage to try and speculate, imagine and doubt the qualification of Sen. Billow who is, in fact, more qualified as a finance person than the other candidate who is only a doctor?
Order! First, Senator from Migori, every Senator present in this Senate qualifies for membership and to be elected to chair a committee if the other Senators decide so irrespective of all your other considerations. Second to Sen. Murkomen, I did not hear the Senator for Migori mentioning a particular name. I have been listening very carefully and he did not. On that basis, because this debate is now moving to dangerous grounds in terms of discussing other Senators which I do not think is healthy for the House, I will take what the Senator for Nyeri requested.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had not finished! The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order! I gave you the bonus out of respect, because I should have disposed off the matter much earlier and you did not carry me along the lines I expected you to pursue. So, I do not want to engage in more debates. I will put the question according to Closure of Debate Standing Order at Article 96.
Could the Senate Majority Leader reply?
Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to take this opportunity to thank all the Senators who have spoken either in support or in opposition of this Motion. The spirit of parliamentary debate requires Senators and Members to express their views. However, I want to add a rider that the freedom of debate and the freedom of expression should not be misused so that it becomes an opportunity to brag or even to try to intimidate other Senators. I am saying so because I have listened here to some of my colleagues whom I have a lot of respect for, either because of the professional interactions I have had with them in the past or even as citizens of this country. I have interacted with people like Sen. Wetangula, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and other distinguished Kenyans who have done great things for our country and we are very proud of them. However, I am not going to sit here and be intimidated by any Senator. I am the Senate Majority Leader by right and I do not want to be lectured on how the majority party should conduct its affairs. Mr. Speaker, Sir, that notwithstanding, my respect for everybody is still intact only that we should actually compete in respecting one another and not to demand respect or try to bulldoze your way into dignity. The issue as you have ruled is very simple; whether the names of distinguished Sen. Elachi and Sen. Bule of Tana River can be approved by this House to sit in the Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs Committee as well as the Implementation Committee respectively. So, I just want to urge honorable Senators to approve those names so that the Committees can proceed with their business. It is not that the committees cannot proceed with business because the rules of quorum are also there, but just to remind us that the issue at hand – as you have guided this House – is not whether my friend, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, should be de-whipped or not because that happened a long time ago in accordance to the law of our country. The Second point I want to make in that connection as a peripheral issue is that unlike what my brother and friend, Sen. Wetangula, has said, what the Jubilee is doing is to promote fidelity to the Constitution of our country and the Political Parties Act which requires every Member to stop the habit of political freelancing and abide by the rules of the parties that have brought them to this House. I want to urge Senators to consider this Motion in its context---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Sen.(Dr.) Khalwale, just relax, I think you had your field day.
Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. So, I want to urge Senators to--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know what is burning honorable colleagues. Is it really in order for an honorable Senator to use unparliamentary and unpleasant language to a colleague? I would beg that you rule that the Senate Majority Leader withdraws that language. He does not need to apologize because I do not need an apology. I am saying this because I am not freelancing; I have been elected by the United Democratic Front (UDF) party which has three Senators, one Governor, 12 Members of Parliament and 57 Members of the County Assembly and I do not have to do anything to remain a Senator for five years. Please, let him withdraw his words, and young Sen. Murkomen, I urge you, if you may consider withdrawing what you said that I am a so-called doctor, for you to go and remember how many of your classmates in your year made it to the school of medicine and which position they used to be in your school.
Leader of Majority you may withdraw the offending words to Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.
Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just used the words “freelancing politically” to demonstrate ungovernable movement politically and I do not think there is anything offensive there. But if you order that I withdraw, I will be happy to withdraw. So, we do not want to---
Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I withdraw.
Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think we should not spoil the good start this House has had. We should deal with the issue at hand. The other issues about bi-partisanship and reaching out to others are issues we will continue working on, and we are doing well if you compare us to the Lower House. So, let us just approve the nominees to these committees to enable them proceed with their work. With those remarks, I beg to move.
Order hon. Senators! Before I put the Question, I want to draw your attention to Standing Order No.69 on voting on a matter other than a Bill and wish to rule because the moment I talk about Standing Order No.69 you must all know. It reads:- 69 (3) “When the Senate votes on a matter that does not affect counties, each Senator has one vote”
Order, hon. Senators! I am informed that you have the requisite number to call for a Division. Ring the Division Bell! The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
The procedure for voting is that the Clerk will call out your names and you will indicate from where you are whether you are voting for “yes”, “no” or whether you wish to abstain. That will also be recorded. The voting is on this basis. You will vote “yes” if you are supporting the Motion and “no” if you are opposed to the Motion or abstain if you are neither supporting nor opposing. So, we can only take three of them; yes, no and abstain. We will now have names being called out, please.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. After giving your guidance and direction---
Sen. Orengo, who gave you the chance?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sorry. You were looking at me.
I did not know whether it was you or another Senator. However, now that you have confirmed that it is you by verbalizing it, proceed.
I was saying that you have gone out of your way to give us guidance and direction on how to vote. There are only three ways to vote. After an hon. Senator is called and does not vote in those three categories, would I be correct to say that is a spoilt vote and should not, therefore, be counted?
Order, hon. Senators! Fortunately, the Senate exists on rules and even the Court of Appeal is residing within the Senate through the Chair. The rules are very clear; the ones I stated. Any Senator acting to the contrary will be out of order and will have to abide with what we are saying. There is no spoilt vote as per now.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Earlier in the morning, you gave direction when we were voting. You said that the Motion we were voting on required that we vote on delegation; either as head of a delegation or as a Member who is nominated by the head of delegation in writing. However, this is another Motion, altogether, which is procedural. I do not know whether this requires our vote to be public and that everybody should know how we voted. This one requires that every Senator votes. I would have wished, in that case, that we come here and indicate how we will vote without shouting on how we are voting. You may bring many more of these de- whippings depending on how people vote here and bring about a lot of disharmony.
We are just consulting. Our Standing Orders have taken us to where we should be but of course we have started from where we are not supposed to. The voting should be electronic. That is what is provided for. Basically the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. When we started, we were advised by the Clerk and subsequently by yourself that the manner in which you are going to read out the names on the list is a reflection of our seniority but I noticed that when we voted the other time, it was all jumbled up. If it is alphabetical, it does not matter but if you have set something that you are going to follow, it is better to follow it. So, I expect that all the time Sen. G.G. Kariuki will be the first to be called and then others. That is what you told us when we started.
Order, Senators! While I appreciate that the Senator for Bungoma wants to aspire to the same level of the late hon. Martin Shikuku of being a stickler to rules and reminding the Chair consistently, on this particular one, it is alphabetical. Where you have the ranking is on the first business when you are electing the Speaker and the Deputy Speaker. In terms of parliamentary practice and democracy all over the world, there are other benefits outside this House where ranking counts. For purposes of voting, we will go in the alphabetical order.
- Sen. Adan Dulo Fatuma Sen. Billow Adan Kerrow Sen. Boy Juma Boy Sen. Ali Abdi Bule Sen. Liza Chelule Sen. Abu Mohamed Chiaba Sen. Beatrice Elachi Sen. Gertrude Emma Mbula Sen. Kembi-Gitura Sen. Joy Adhiambo Gwendo Sen. Mohamed Yusuf Haji Sen. Godana Hagura Sen. Abdirahman Ali Hassan Sen. Hassan Omar Hassan Sen. Gerald Otieno Kajwang Sen. Kanainza Nyongesa Daisy Sen. Dickson Daniel Karaba Sen. G.G. Kariuki The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Sen. Kipchumba. The wording is, I vote yes, no or abstain or any sign language.
I said no in Kiswahili.
I know it is allowed but why do you really want to be different for now?
- Sen. Zipporah Kittony Sen. Leny Kivuti Sen. John Munyes Sen. Mohamed Abdi Kuti Sen. Wilfrend Rotich Lesan Sen. Sammy Leshore Sen. Naisula Lesouda Sen. Lonyangapuo John Krop Sen. Wilfred Machage Sen. Steward Madzayo Sen. Elizabeth Ongoro Masha Sen. Isaac Kipkemboi Melly Sen. Mohamud Halima Abdile Sen. Gideon Moi Sen. Peter Mositet Sen. Beth Mugo Sen. James Mungai Sen. Muriuki Karue Sen. Kipchumba Murkomen Sen. Kiraitu Murungi Sen. David Musila Sen. Mutahi Kagwe Sen. Johnson Muthama Sen. Danson Mwazo Sen. Catherine Mukite Nobwola Sen. Henry Ndiema Sen. Stephen Ntutu.
Sen. Hassan, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, Sen. Madzayo and Sen. Musila,
Hon. Senators, because the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs has not been able to hold its elections and it lacked quorum last time according to Standing Order No.181, I, therefore, wish to direct that the Committee meets on Friday morning at 8.00 a.m.
You recall in the morning we deferred the matter on the vote on the Motion by the Senator for Kakamega, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale - the Motion on Education – to this afternoon at 3.30 p.m. According to the clock on my wall, it is now 4.14 p.m. and part of the extension was requested by the hon. Senators who had actually wanted the precise time. But I suppose for purposes of not earlier, they wanted later. I am referring to the Senator for Homa Bay and the Senator for Siaya who were in total agreement with the Chair. So, the only business, therefore, we have is to vote on this particular Motion. According to Standing Order No.69, this is a Motion for the counties and, therefore, I will direct that the Division Bell be rang for another eight minutes and this time, the voting is by county delegation.
Order, hon. Senators! Let us resume our seats. Eight minutes have elapsed. Close all the doors and draw the bar. Voting by Delegation.
Hon. Senators, I wish to announce the results as follows.
Sen. Boy Juma
I would like to revise the time for the meeting of the Committee for Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs from Friday at 8.00 a.m. Hon. Senators have petitioned me that they would prefer to be done with the House business before they proceed to the funeral and from there to their constituencies rather than come back to the House. We will, therefore, have that meeting tomorrow morning, Thursday, 9th May, at 9.00 am. We have a Motion of Adjournment on a matter of definite national importance under the provisions of Standing Order No.33, not later than 5.00 pm. The other Motion must also start at 6.00 p.m. Therefore, we have strict timelines. I will, therefore, use this opportunity to call upon the Senate Minority Leader to move it.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT the House adjourns to discuss a matter of grave national importance. I want to thank you for allocating me time to move this Motion. I want, in advance, to thank the Senate Majority Leader for taking a bi-partisan position and agreeing to second the Motion. Security in any country is very critical for the development and the well-being of the people. We have seen a spate of challenges to security in many parts of the country. We have witnessed the events of Tana River and Baragoi where we lost over 40 police officers. We have seen the events in Busia, Bungoma, Turkana and many other places. It should not be lost upon us, as Senators, that our primary duty is to be custodians of interests of the counties that we represent and this includes security. Senators cannot on their own provide security. We can only advocate, represent and call upon the national government to continue making serious efforts to secure the lives and properties of Kenyans. Mr. Speaker, Sir, what prompted me to bring this Motion are the events that have taken place in the last three weeks that have cast serious challenges to security in Bungoma and Busia counties. Three weeks ago, a gang of unknown criminals raided a The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki: Mr. Speaker, Sir, it gives me a lot of privilege to second the Motion which has been introduced to this House by my friend, the Senate Minority Leader. As we have stated before, it is a commitment that we have given to this country and the leadership of the political parties in this House. On matters that touch on the good of our country, we will stand united, firm, unapologetic and extremely robust in terms of defending the interests of the people of Kenya who sent us to this House. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issue of insecurity is a matter that is of concern to all of us. In this country, we have witnessed mind boggling cases of atrocious crimes committed by our fellow citizens. Perhaps, they who have been unable to appreciate that a country that respects itself cannot be a country where people do not live in peace, harmony and their properties are protected. Mine is to say two things: First, the Jubilee Coalition Government has committed itself to tackle the situation of insecurity head on. The Commander-in-Chief of the Kenya Defence Forces has made it extremely clear in his speech and through other avenues. The Deputy President is directly involved as well as other officials of the Government. The second point is to say that as a country and as Members contribute on how we can improve security in our country, we are looking for solutions in our country. The era of blame game and shifting blame for cheap political scores is gone. This country requires each one of us whether in the majority or minority to offer concrete solutions. Having said that, I want to say that from the majority side, we stand with the solidarity of the people of Kenya and we want to see the security situation improve in our country. With those few remarks, I beg to second.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I found it appropriate to sit on your Chair. It looks like if you sit on the Deputy Speaker’s Chair, you are likely to catch the Chair’s eye. Thank you for giving me this privilege. I want to commend the Senate Minority Leader for moving this Motion together with the Senate Majority Leader and for their firm statements which they have made on matters of security. I agree with them that this House should work together and speak The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to contribute to this matter. I listened to the Senator who spoke before me and I think the bottom line is that we are very concerned with what is happening. This matter of insecurity has persisted for too long until every one of us begins to wonder whether it is being done by criminals or by people who are supposed to protect wananchi. There is no explanation from anybody who can come forward and tell us the reason for these things happening all the years. As I speak here, in my county, a child was killed yesterday and yet we keep talking about this matter. This is a matter which has been wished away all the time. I believe with the new Government, maybe the President and the Deputy President will do something to see to it that insecurity is controlled. What one needs to ask himself is what is lacking. Is it the funds for research or lack of proper investigations, so that we cannot know the reason Kenya is in this situation? Kenya is known all over the world to have the best police officers who are very well trained. In fact, our standards are comparable to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is the hon. Senator in order to be selective in the way he is presenting his argument without being truthful? Why is he forgetting the Government before the last Government which was worse than the last Government in matters of security? He participated and we would all be in jail today.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I hope some of us are going to mature soon. It has taken Sen. Orengo a longer time to know whether he is a Senator or an ordinary Member of Parliament.
Sen. Orengo, we are debating a very serious matter. I know what I am talking about. During my time, there was no political murder.
You tell me which one?
I was not there and that is why I am saying that you are not serious.
Order, hon. Senators! Your time is up!
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. Let me, first, thank the Minority Leader for bringing this very important Motion so that we can discuss the rising insecurity in our nation and also thank the Majority Leader for seconding the Motion. It is quite unfortunate that when I look in the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. First, I want to thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this very serious Motion on the insecurity in our country. First of all, I would like to send my condolences and those of my county which is, at the moment, in apparent peace unlike in Bungoma County, to those who have lost their loved ones and their properties. I would like to lay the blame of insecurity on the Government. I say so because this country is not using intelligence-gathering to make sure that the country is at peace. This can be done if the Government is aware and sensitive to the early warnings. The early warnings would give us an indication that we will have trouble. There are some early warnings that I think - and have experienced this, in this country, occur before these things happen. The first is when there is an increased consumption of alcohol and illicit drugs in the country. Once this happens, this becomes an indication that something will not go right. This is an early warning. Secondly, you might think that this is not related, but there is increased poaching of wildlife going on in the country. Again, this you may think is unrelated, but it has always happened and, subsequently, been followed by incidences of insecurity. Of course, there is also the illegal trade in hard drugs. When you see these things happening; if the system in the country cannot detect them, then it is not paying attention to the early warnings in the country. I have been seeing those three things happening in the country. I am, therefore, not surprised that there is insecurity in the country because these things are happening. If we paid attention to the early warnings that are there all the time, then we would safeguard our citizens. Right now, we should be using the intelligence and not armed people. You could see that the people had been hurt and killed using crude weapons. These people who had gone to Bungoma are not foreigners, but people who are living among the communities there. We can only get to know them if we have intelligence on the ground. However, this should not be intelligence officers who appear in helicopters one afternoon and disappear late in the afternoon not to be seen again. The intelligence officers must be grounded. The county governments we are setting up must be given all the tools and the ability to collect information and take up early warnings, so that we can safeguard our citizens in the country. I beg to support the Motion.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand to support the Motion on the grounds that it is on the lips and the minds of every Kenyan today as to what is happening to the security of this country. There are criminal elements causing havoc all over the country. We, as leaders, cannot just stand and be spectators and merely apportion blame. It is incumbent upon every citizen of this country to decide that enough is enough and that we do everything possible to make sure that we return the security of this country to its rightful place, so that every Kenyan can go about their business without any fear. As I said, one would ask why these things are happening in many parts of this country. I do not agree that this is merely because of poverty or because of other reasons. We must find out the reasons contributing to the insecurity. When I was contributing to the Presidential Speech, I said that time has come when the Government should appoint a Judicial Commission of Inquiry to interrogate The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This is quite an opportunity for me to speak after the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations. The Senate gives us a fresh opportunity to assist the Government in rethinking its shift in terms of paradigm of insecurity. We have failed in the last 50 years in bringing proactive security in this country. We have also got it wrong when it comes to bringing reactive security. Most of you may understand that proactive security is when you capacitate the citizens to keep the peace. When His Excellency President Uhuru Kenyatta says that we are the less policed country, what does this mean? It means that we have done relatively well in proactive security. However, there is a direct correlation in terms of security and development and in terms of security and enjoyment of other fundamental rights. Security severs from the enjoyment of fundamental rights and freedoms. Therefore, there is need for this Senate to assist to shift the paradigm of security in this country. For the years I was at the Kenya Commission on Human Rights (KCHR), I always urged Government to do things differently when it came to insecurity. They are too conventional, archaic and outdated. I think that shifting paradigms of security is the democratisation of security, meaning that you have more citizens’ participation in security, but arm citizens with the confidence of the security apparatus so that they assist The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. I also want to thank my colleagues for being here to listen to me. Sometimes we tend to use a gun to kill a cockroach. Initially, we used to have administration policemen who used to go for training and they would be sent to work back home. I do not know what happened to that. This business of mixing administration police with other forces brought about problems. If you can recall, when the former late Minister for Provincial Administration and Internal Security, Mr. Michuki, was in charge of the police force, he started mixing the Administration Policemen (AP) with other policemen. This caused a problem because the wrong doers are our own children, brothers and sisters. So, when we have the AP coming back home to work with the chiefs, we end up getting the inside story regarding insecurity. I would like to suggest that AP be sent back home after their training, so that they liaise with the people at the grassroots level. This would help us know the wrong doers and those people who are behind instigation of the insecurity cases in this country.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me the opportunity. I want to thank the Senate Minority Leader for bringing this particular Motion which was triggered by what has happened in Bungoma and Busia counties. I represent Busia County in this Senate. Busia County is a cosmopolitan county which even escaped what happened in 2007/2008. It is a very peaceful county because we believe in unity in diversity. These are people who believe in peace. So, for it to happen in Busia County, is a wakeup call for the entire country to look very critically at issues of national security. Sen. Wetangula has outlined the incidences and I will not go into them. Sen. Lesuuda has spoken very well on how people are suffering. So, I will not go into that. I will just go straight into the issues of national security in this country. The right to life is the most fundamental right of them all. In fact, without this right to life, all other rights are meaningless. There are a few questions that we should ask. We have had police reforms in this country, so let them not be confined only to changing people at the leadership level when the rest is the same. Reform must take into account the issues of recruitment. In Busia County, we have had instances of police officers being involved in criminal activities. That is a warning signal. When I say criminal activities, I mean the violent crimes like robbery and so on. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when you talk about reforms, has the Criminal Investigation Department (CID) been reformed properly? That is a question that must be asked because at Independence, and I think Sen. G.G. Kariuki will confirm, our CID was almost like Scotland Yard. Nothing went wrong. Today this does not happen. What we are seeing is when police are defeated in investigating a particular crime they impute politics. If a politician has done that thing, to me, he is no longer a politician. He is a criminal who should be investigated, convicted, tried and put in. So, I do not want to hear that it is politics causing the problems. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let us talk about the National Security Intelligence Service (NSIS). What are they doing? Why can they not warn us when these gangsters want to strike? If you look at the sequence of happenings, you will see that the senior officers will go there and when they go away it happens again. When they come to Nairobi to meet with the Deputy President, again, it happens after that. Who are these The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Asante sana, Bw. Naibu Spika. Ningependa kuungana na wenzangu na Seneta aliyeleta Hoja hii ya Usalama. Usalama ni mojawapo wa haki ambazo Mkenya anatakikana apate anapokuwa katika nchi yake. Sasa imekuwa ni jambo la kawaida kutokuwa na usalama. Utasikia swala hili likizungumziwa kule Mombasa, Kwale, Bungoma na kwingineko nchini. Hata hivyo, katika Serikali kuna vyombo vinavyohusika na kuleta usalama nchini. Tuna polisi wa kawaida na majasusi ambao kazi yao muhimu ni kuchunguza kwa udani. Haya mambo tunayoyazungumzia leo hupangwa katika fikira za wanadamu kabla ya kutekelezwa. Watu hupanga mambo kabla ya kuyatenda. Tuliona katika runinga watu wakigonga madirisha na kuwalazimisha watu kuvua suruali walizokuwa wamezivaa siku iliyotangulia. Kitendo hiki kinamaanisha kwamba majambazi walikuwa na intelligence yao. Tuliona mwizi akimwamurisha mwenye nyumba kutoa suruali aliyoivaa jana. Walijua hata rangi ya suruali zilizovaliwa na wenye nyumba. Ni wazi kwamba tendo hili lilipangwa kabla ya siku hiyo. Tunasema kwamba kabla neno halijatekelezwa, kuwe na njia ambayo itahakikisha kwamba The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for according me this opportunity. Let me at the very outset join my colleagues who have spoken earlier in sending my deepest condolences to the families affected by this spate of violence. I want to thank the Mover of this Motion, Sen. Wetangula, for bringing this important Motion. I also want to thank the Senate Majority Leader for seconding the Motion. I am so elated by the unity that was displayed by the two leaders. When it comes to important national matters, we have to put our partisan interests aside and deal with it as a Senate. Indeed, the Senate should cut that image. This is; the House that cares for Kenyans and that discusses issues that affect Kenyans. Kudos to my brother, Sen. Wetangula. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the wave of violence that has been experienced in Busia and Bungoma counties is unprecedented. As Sen. Wako said, these are areas that are known to be very peaceful in this Republic. Therefore, it is very disturbing that this has occurred and it has gone on for three good weeks without the Government doing anything or stopping this violence. I want to remind the President of the Republic of Kenya and his Deputy that the first and top most responsibility of any Government is to protect the lives of its citizens and their properties. I also want to remind them that the honeymoon is now over. Let them fold their sleeves and get to work to ensure that Kenyans live peaceful wherever they are. There will be no meaningful development that will be achieved anywhere in the counties if there is no peace. Therefore, peace should be the first priority that this Government should tackle. We who live in the neighbourhood of the affected counties are getting worried. This wave started in Bungoma County. Before we knew it, we heard it had moved to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I stand here to support this Motion. It is a very important Motion because it touches on the security of our people. I have been following the story of Bungoma and Busia counties on these attacks. It is a very sad story. Children cannot go to school because parents are afraid that their children will be killed. I saw a story where the head of a family has to arm his children with
and then he tells his wife that her work is simply to scream if she sees anything, and then he goes to keep vigil outside. Is this Kenya 50 years after Independence? I want to tell my colleagues in Busia and Bungoma counties that they are not alone in this problem of insecurity. Just the other day, raiders went to Narok County and killed people. They were allegedly from Tanzania. There are many areas where bandits are raiding without those cases being reported. In my own county, every now and then at the border with Tana River, raiders are coming from that neighbouring county and killing our people. This morning I read in the newspaper that yesterday there were raiders or bandits – whatever you call them – in Nyandarua, the story is the same. There were also attacks in Kiambu. So, this is not a matter limited to distant counties. It is a nationwide problem. What annoys me is that whenever police officers are unable to arrest criminals of this magnitude, they always blame it on politicians. They say that it is politically motivated. For goodness sake, if it is politically motivated, why do they not arrest those who are responsible? They are using politicians as scapegoats when they cannot do their work. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the NIS is busy tracking politicians and doing other things that they are not supposed to do whereas this institution is a national security intelligence. The purpose for the national security intelligence is to detect and get the intelligence information on the intended areas to be attacked, but not to just follow politicians. These are people we are paying very well. They are the best paid public servants and yet they do not do their work. You have heard Sen. Boy say that even if you report to the police officers, they ask you for fuel. They tell you to go back to the place and if you see the criminals, again, you call them. Whatever is happening in the police The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Hon. Senators, you appreciate that we have to end this debate in the next 15 minutes. You can see that there is still a lot of interest in it. You know that it is a debate which we do not have to put a Question at the end. So, if you agree, we may have to reduce the time that each of you has to speak. Otherwise, only three of you are going to speak, but I can see almost seven of you on your feet. I think we are going to limit this to two minutes, so that everybody who wishes to have a word can have a chance. So mind your time.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. From the onset, I watched on one of the local televisions a family man - it was cited by Sen. Musila – who has turned himself into a police man of some sort. You look at small children looking helpless. In fact, I told myself that those children were being trained into hooliganism; the fact that they were supposed to protect themselves. So, basically, you are actually telling those children that they must take the law in their own hands. The existence of the State under the social contract theory was that all of us surrender the power of revenge and possibility of fighting to the State, so that the State can be the sole institution that can legitimately exercise violence. I really get worried when we continue having this kind of situation in every county. The main concern of this House is the interest of the counties under Article 96. If that is the interest of the Senate-- -
Order! Your time is up!
Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this chance. In support, it is very important that we address ourselves to this kind of problem in the country. It is true that our soldiers did and are doing very well in Somalia. It is also true that they have done very well in other foreign countries. However, we are doubtful whether they are capable of solving internal conflicts and problems that we are getting from the regions that we have heard here; Bungoma---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is Sen. Karaba in order to say that he doubts whether the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF) will be able to control our internal security and yet, it is not under their portfolio?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will continue by saying---
Sen. Karaba, can you address that point of order?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, certainly all these people were drawn from Kenya. There is a way that we can have them devolved in the whole country. There The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also want to support this Motion. We all know that there is insecurity in our country. As we are seated here today, as Senators, there is a problem in the line of security in our country. I do not know whether this is a problem of investigations not being done. As I talk today, I think it is our obligation, as Senators and as leaders of this country, to make sure that we come up with modalities on how to address the issues of insecurity in our country. As I stand here today, we have lost lives and yet nobody has been arrested. People are being hijacked and nobody has been arrested. I would like to request the Chairman of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations to do something about this. This is a matter of concern to all of us. I hope that he will do something. We also need to empower the DPC structures from the national level to the community level. I support the Motion.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand to support this Motion. I begin by sympathising and empathising with the families that have been affected by the spate of violence that has afflicted the western part of this country. Kiambu County happens to suffer from a similar fate for a long time. We, as a Senate, mandated by the law to take care of counties should realise that unless people are called upon in terms of accountability, then they will never solve problems. In Bungoma County, for example, we have the OCPD and PPO in charge of security. Unless these people are held accountable, the security situation will continue to deteriorate. We have a Committee, for example, as it has been mentioned by my predecessor here, on National Security and Foreign Relations and we can even go further as a Senate and demand that that team be held accountable so that it makes a report to the Committee of this Senate on the state of insecurity in that area. If we find it wanting, they should be reprimanded and adequate action recommended and taken against them. If we do not hold people accountable for the jobs they pleaded to do, then they will always apportion blame. I stand to support.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to join the Senate leaders of Majority and Minority for supporting this Motion which is very important. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, a situation in which innocent Kenyans are being attacked, killed and maimed night after night is totally unacceptable. This must be condemned. The killing of innocent children, mothers, women, peasants and ordinary villagers has no justification, whatsoever, in a modern society. To tell us that this is happening and yet the security apparatus in the country do not know who the perpetrators are is to take Kenyans and all of us for a ride. I am sure that the security apparatus know who these people are. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we must remember that the primary role of any government anywhere in the world is to take care of the lives and property of its citizens. The time has now come when the Government in place should tell us whether they have failed because they are not taking responsibility for this important security aspect involving their citizens. The question that we must ask is: When all this is happening where is the police service? Where are the criminal investigators? Where is the National Intelligence Service (NIS)? The time has come when we have to redefine the role of each of this security agencies and their relationship with the county governments.
Your time is up! Sen. Mungai, you have less than two minutes.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also take this opportunity to grief with the people of Bungoma and Busia counties. My colleague Senators have talked about those issues. It is very sad. The way I take it myself is that I have seen the way that our police force is. I have seen that our police force is lacking in equipment. When you look at the condition of the vehicles that our police have, they are not able to be where a crime is committed in time. Several times in Mai Mahiu, I had to give out my vehicle because the police vehicle that is there has a problem. So, we could be pushing the police, but The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Hon. Senators, that brings us to a close of that very important Motion. It is now 6.00 p.m. and we are supposed to debate Motion No.10. I would ask the Senate Leader of the Minority to move the Motion. Proceed, Sen. Wetangula.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, pursuant to Standing Orders No.31(1) and No.50(b), and notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order No.30; aware that the late Senator Mutula Kilonzo will be laid to rest tomorrow, Thursday, May 09, 2013, in Mbooni, Makueni County; recognizing the need for Senators to participate in giving their departed colleague a befitting send-off, the Senate resolves to adjourn until Tuesday, May 14, 2013. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, our next sitting day is tomorrow afternoon, but we also know that tomorrow is an extremely sad day for this House. This is because one of our most distinguished colleagues, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo of Makueni County will be laid to rest at his rural home in Mbooni. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, after consultations as the leadership of the House with the Speaker, my colleague in the majority, the whips and yourself, we did agree to move a Motion in the House, which I hereby do, that tomorrow be exempted from the sitting of the House of Senate to allow and enable colleagues to go and see off their departed colleague. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are new as a House; we are also relatively small and we have had very close inter-personal relationships. Some of us who have been in the previous House have worked with the late Sen. Mutula Kilonzo. We all know that we set aside an afternoon here and eulogized our departed brother; we do not need to belabour the point too much. I want to urge hon. Senators present that even those who will not be able to visit Mbooni home, I am sure your spirit will be with those who will be there. I am sure you will be condoling with those who will be there; the family, the friends and the constituents – having an opportunity to know that this can happen to anyone of us and that when it does happen, such a respectful and dignified send off is what we all desire in life. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to second this Motion. We all know and we have eulogized our departed colleague, as the Senate Minority Leader has said here. It is unfortunate, like I have said before, that we did not benefit from his wealth of knowledge as a founding Senate under the new Constitution. Therefore, it is important for all of us who will have the opportunity to travel to Mbooni to have that time tomorrow to visit and condole with the family and the people of Mbooni. We want to extend our condolences and sympathies to, not only the family, but also the people of Makueni County for the departure of their Senator. We want to basically say that we, as a family, as a Senate, are united. I think that is the message we want to pass out there. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, sometimes we may have one or two differences of opinion and position, but allow me to note one thing that unlike the Lower House, this House has demonstrated the maturity expected of the Senate. This should go on, not only on welfare matters, but also on issues of immense importance to our country. For that reason, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to second the Motion.
Before I open the Floor, let me just remind fellow Senators that we eulogized our colleague last Tuesday and many of you had occasion or chance to give eulogy befitting him; and that this time we have the next 20 minutes only to move and pass – if you find it fit – this Motion of Adjournment. Depending on the interest that will be shown, we will decide on the timelines to give, but in the meantime, five minutes for each of the persons who want to contribute. Proceed, Sen. Mositet.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I stand here to support the Motion that it is quite important for this House to adjourn because of a great son of this nation – somebody whom we really feel, as the young Senators who have just come here – could have learned from. Makueni is quite far, but I am sure all the Senators would like to go there. I do not see how we will actually move from here to Mbooni and then come back to continue with the proceedings of the House. So, for that reason, I feel that it is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I stand here to support the Motion. As you are aware, this morning we went through the burial rites in the church. I just want to stand here first as a member of the funeral committee, to thank the Senators. They rose to the occasion immediately this death was announced and they suspended all Business; they eulogized their colleague and even visited the family. This morning, I had occasion, on behalf of the family, to thank the Senate very sincerely for that action they took and for the assistance they gave. May I, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, also take this opportunity to also appraise the Senators of the programme. It runs like this: mourners depart Nairobi at 7.00 a.m. to arrive at Mbooni by 10.00 a.m. Mourners are then expected to be seated by 10.00 a.m., when the programme will begin. For those of you who are not familiar with the route, there are two ways of going to Mbooni; the first one is the Nairobi-Machakos Road where you proceed towards Kitui Road to a place called Masii. Once there, turn and go all the way to Kiima. That is the road most recommended because it is tarmacked. I think it is only two kilometres which have not been tarmacked nearer to the home, and the contractor is on site. So, that is the most recommended route; the Machakos-Kitui-Masii and then to the funeral place. We will try to signpost the road. The other alternative road is if you follow the Machakos-Wote Road, and on reaching somewhere called Kyambalasi, you turn. That will be the only path that is tarmacked. After that, you will have to travel for six kilometres on an earth road. You can only use that road if you have a four-wheel drive because it is hilly and the road is not very good. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thought this information would be useful to my colleagues who may wish to travel. Otherwise, we remain most indebted to the Senate as a whole, to both the staff and the Senators, for the support they have given and for visiting the family and for condoling them. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, once again, thank you very much for giving me this time also to pay my condolences and those of my county to our beloved Senator who has just departed. I am here because of having been a teacher; I remember that when we were in the church, Governor Kibwana was trying to say how he was going to the kitchen and getting food for whoever – and I happened to have been in that school as a teacher – and I felt very sorry that one of the old boys of Machakos High School had to leave the country when it is in great demand to have old boys from Machakos High School. I identify myself with the school and I stand solidly behind whatever is happening in it. The fact that Machakos High School has produced a man like that in the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Probably, the last word will never be said about Sen. Mutula Kilonzo, but I take it that we will continue to remember him in our thoughts, in our speeches and, as it has been suggested by other people – that those who write their memoirs, those who write the history of this country, particularly the political history and our courts – that the work of Sen. Mutula Kilonzo will be concretized in many forms and in our political life as a whole. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is appropriate to appreciate the role that Sen. Mutula Kilonzo played in ensuring that we had a Senate. I do not think there were many people who were convinced that the Senate is an important institution in a devolved system of Government. Many thought that, actually, this should be a House of chiefs or a House of Provinces. So, I think it is befitting and quite appropriate for this Senate to fully show its support to this great Kenyan who, when it came to Constitution making, he did not just take it as a matter of duty, but as a matter of commitment for the country in terms of the current generation and for the future generation. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.
Maybe last, Sen. Hassan from Mombasa.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I did not think that I will not have something to say about Sen. Mutula to essentially get us to the close of Business today. Mine is just to wish all those who are going well. I know that our Leaders of Majority and Minority will be there, so I do believe that those who will make it should represent us with the kind of gravitas that is deserved; so should our Speaker, who I believe will also be attending that event. As Sen. Orengo has said, Sen. Mutula is a man who people can write scripts and scripts of his accolades. Maybe, we might never exhaust them. Today it was very humbling also to hear the simple man that he was; I think we heard the human side of it. For too long, we just heard the intellectual part – how smart he was; how he did this, how he wrote this Constitution – but from his family, they told us how humane he was, how he used to send valentines cards, how he played with his family, how he had the culture of giving gifts and many other things. What also became very outstanding for those of us who are still in the process of building families, including yourself, Mr. Deputy Speaker, is to ensure that we follow part of his characteristics and traits so that we build the modern Kenyan family where people are encouraged to take positions and to take interests that befit their aspirations; not to force our children into whatever we think is right for them. We can give them guidance, but I think that institutionally played very well; that he had created an extremely important institution of family. If there is one The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, hon. Senators. The Leader of Minority, you can now reply.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I take the opportunity to thank all Senators who without dissent, have supported the Motion. I thank you, Sen. Murkomen, for seconding the Motion. I thank Sen. Musila for giving us direction on how to get to our brother’s home. I encourage that as many of us as possible take time to go and attend the send off and that may the good Lord rest his soul in eternal peace. I beg to move.
Hon. Senators, it is now time to adjourn the Senate. The Senate stands adjourned until Tuesday, 14th May, 2013, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.