Order, hon. Senators. Let us determine if we have a quorum.
We have a quorum. Let us proceed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion to the Department of Environment, Water and Natural Resources:- THAT, aware that the country cannot solely depend on rain-fed agriculture to attain food security; acknowledging the importance of irrigation-based agriculture in improving food security status; recognizing that our rivers and lakes are the main sources of water for large-scale irrigation; appreciating the efforts by the National Government to put more land in counties within arid and semi-arid areas under crop production; concerned that continued encroachment through human settlement along riparian areas leads to pollution of the water bodies and systematic destruction of vegetation cover thereby threatening the existence of the water bodies and hampering sustainable irrigation endeavors; the Senate urges the National Government to put in place effective measures to protect watersheds and other riparian resources and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Sen. Obure. Nobody has given you a chance. You rise wherever you are and wait for recognition from the Chair. DISASTER PREPAREDNESS AND MANAGEMENT BY BOTH NATIONAL AND COUNTY GOVERNMENTS
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations on disaster management. In the Statement, I would like the Chairperson of the Committee to:- 1. Clarify which level of Government, national or county, takes primary responsibility with regards to matters relating to disaster management at the county level. 2. State what magnitude of disaster should be handled by either level of government. 3. Indicate what early warning systems have been put in place to address an imminent drought in Turkana County and other counties in Northern Kenya.
Where is the Chairman?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the fact that there is reorganization of Ministries, for me to be able to give a good and adequate answer, I will require a week from next week.
That is in order.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to report to this House of a tragic event which took place in my county last evening. This relates to a road accident in which we lost nine students and four teachers. A number of both students and teachers are also critically injured. Some are at Kisii Level Five General Hospital. A group of others have been airlifted to Nairobi for specialized treatment. The accident involved students from various schools in Marani sub-county. These students were on their way travelling from Marani to Nyamache to participate in a county sports event. The accident appears to have been as a result of the driver losing control of his vehicle, occasioning that tragic event. Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your indulgence, I want to take this opportunity to convey my personal condolences to the families of those who have been adversely affected The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. Khaniri?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to get your guidance under which Standing Order Sen. Obure rose to make this Statement. If it is under Personal Statement, then we cannot comment on it. But we ask for your indulgence so that hon. Senators can convey their condolences to the families affected by the accident.
Sen. Obure, which Standing Order did you stand on?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is not a Personal Statement.
Then what is it?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. To me, that appeared like a Personal Statement. According to our Standing Orders, we cannot make any comments. I would like to make a request that, probably, towards the end of today’s sitting, we have a Motion of Adjournment so that hon. Senators get an opportunity to convey their condolences to the affected families.
I do not know whether we can qualify this as a Personal Statement as indicated under Standing Order No.85. It says; at any time an hon. Senator can rise on a point of order to raise any matter. As you have correctly observed, the nature of this matter would be better served if Sen. Khaniri put a request and then at the end--- There is a facility that hon. Senators have not utilized, that from 6.00 p.m. you can actually deliberate this matter. Being a serious matter, I will allow debate on it from 6.00 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations arising from heightened state of insecurity witnessed in the County of Trans Nzoia in the recent past. This has led to loss of lives and injury to innocent citizens. These incidents have increased. Hon. Senators may recall that recently in a village called Moroki area in Saboti Division, criminals attacked a village killing five residents, including a businessman. They also seriously injured another five people who are now hospitalized. As I seek the Statement, I wish to condole the families who lost their relatives. I also wish quick recovery to those who are hospitalized. Mr. Speaker, Sir, similar incidents have occurred in Kiminini, Kibomet and Kachibora in Cherengany where one owner of a matatu was killed. It also occurred in Milimani area of Kitale where one Kenya Police Reservist (KPR) was killed. This has become a concern to the residents of Trans Nzoia County---
Order, Sen. Ndiema. Just ask for your Statement.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the Statement, I would like the following to be given:- 1. A list of incidents reported within the last 12 months showing places and names of persons who lost their lives and those who were injured in each incident. 2. For each incident, the Statement should show the progress made by the Government in investigating, arresting and prosecution of those responsible. 3. The established motive of the crime in each incident. 4. Efforts put in place or planned by the Government to ensure that those responsible are brought to book and that similar crimes do not occur in future. 5. Steps taken or planned by the Government to ensure effective policing in the affected areas, including the upgrading of Kiminini and Saboti police posts, to fully- fledged police stations with adequate personnel, equipment and motor vehicles.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise on the same point of order. I would like the request to be extended to include the killings that took place at Nangili Shopping Centre in Likuyani Constituency of Kakamega County and those that took place at Nalondo in Kabuchai Constituency in Bungoma County where businessmen were gunned down. KILLING OF 12 PEOPLE IN NYANYA VILLAGE, KITUI COUNTY
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. First, I would like to thank hon. Ndiema for raising this issue. I stand here to also add on that request for a statement from the Chairman of the Committee of National Security and Foreign Relations. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the seriousness and the security implications of this matter, considering that the statement requests are quite loaded, I would like to be given two weeks to answer comprehensively. REVENUE ALLOCATIONS TO COUNTIES
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I stand to seek a statement from the Chairman of the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs on the following. First; how much money was allocated to each of the 47 counties in the last 20 years for development and provision of the following facilities and services: roads, water, health and rural electrification? Secondly, I would also like to know from him whether the level of funding provided by Article 204 of the Constitution that creates the Equalisation Fund is adequate to address the glaring disparities between counties before the Fund lapses in 20 years from the effective date.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Looking at the statement that has been sought, it is important that we seek statements that can be answered to. It becomes very difficult on the Chairman of a Committee to answer a statement like this one sought by Sen. Hargura. If you look at the way the statement has been framed, you will see that he is asking how much money has been allocated to each of the 47 counties. I do not know what he expects the Chairman to say because there were no counties in the last 40 years. We have been having different units. That is not a question that is capable of being answered. Counties are a new creation that started the other day. Article 204 of the Constitution - whereas we may agree that the amount allocated is not sufficient - says that there shall be an Equalisation Fund of so much percentage. This is an act of good faith that the Government is doing to try and equalize. We know that the amount is not and cannot be sufficient. However, it is something that is moving in the right direction to sort out certain disparities that appear on the face of it to have been there in the last 20 years. I was thinking that this is not a question that can easily be dealt with. The first part cannot be answered because as you very well see, there were no counties. The counties are a new found thing.
I am not sure if you really want a debate on this. Sen. Abdirahman, let us be brief. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will be straight to the point. Constituencies and original districts constitute what we now call counties. I see no reason for any Member of the Senate or from any other quarter to evade this very important question. This will help us and the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) to determine the glaring disparities for sure. I find that to be in order. I do not think that even the hon. Senator, as much as I respect him, is in order. Technocrats are there in all Ministries. Is the Senator in order to leave out this question? I admire the way it has been set out.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I wonder why any Senator would be jittery or embarrassed with information that we already have. We have this information in our libraries, Parliament, Government institutions and in our universities. There is really nothing to hide. Marsabit has always been a district. Homa Bay was once a district. So, we have very brilliant people around here. Do not underestimate the capacity of our technical people to give us facts. Listen to the facts and get the solutions. Is he in order to hide information?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Our Deputy Speaker has a right to stand on that point of order and you cannot take that away from him. However, is he in order to attempt to do the work of the Chair of the Committee? I find him completely out of order to attempt to answer the issues raised by the Senator for Marsabit for the simple reason that he is not the Chairman. Is he afraid because he comes from Murang’a which was favoured over many years?
Indeed, as most of you have observed, that statement was approved by the Chair. Even if counties did not exist by then, there were some units that cumulatively became counties. I do not think it was the intention of the Constitution to hide things because we have created others. Let us hear from the Chairman.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a very important question. However, because it touches on a number of areas like roads and water, it is very comprehensive and we need time. We will ask for a couple of weeks. Next Thursday but one, we will give an answer. We need two weeks. I will answer it before the House adjourns. LACK OF CCTV CAMERAS IN MAJOR CITIES
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to seek a statement from the Chairman of the Committee of National Security and Foreign Relations. My statement relates to the issue of CCTV security surveillance in Nairobi. In the statement, I would like the Chairman to clarify the following: 1. Why the level of CCTV surveillance is very low and yet it should be a matter of priority for the national Government, given the high level of insecurity in the city. 2. State what action the Government is taking to install CCTV Security Surveillance Cameras in the city and other major towns. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to congratulate Sen. Halima for being a nationalist Senator. Others are asking about their homes while she is asking about something that concerns all Kenyans. This will be answered on Wednesday, next week without any delay.
Order, Mr. Chairman. While I appreciate your excitement and readiness to answer, Wednesday is not an option. You will answer it on Thursday.
Much obliged, Mr. Speaker, Sir. TARMACKING OF KAPENGURIA-KAPIPICH-KAPSAIT- KAPSANGAR-ITEN ROAD
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to seek two statements under the provisions of Standing Order No.43 (2) (c). The first request is directed to the Chairman of the Standing Committee on Energy, Roads and Transportation on the following. 1. When will the Kapenguria-Kapipich-Kapsait-Kapsangar-Iten Road be tarmacked noting that it transverses West Pokot and Elgeyo-Marakwet counties, given that over 50 per cent of the economies of these counties depend on this road? TARMACKING OF KAPENGURIA-KACHELIBA-KOLOWA-ALALE- LODWAR-LOKICHOGGIO ROAD 2. When will the Kapenguria-Kacheliba-Kolowa-Alale-Lodwar-Lokichoggio Road be tarmacked, noting that about 25 to 40 per cent of the economy of West Pokot and Turkana counties depend on livestock found in the areas covered by the proposed road and also promote the Kenya-Uganda cross border trade? I will read the second statement which is directed to the Chairman of the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Planning. IMPLEMENTATION STATUS OF VISION 2030 1. What is the status of the implementation of Vision 2030? 2. What are the gains achieved, so far, noting that the Medium Term Plan has ended? What are the plans for the future? 3. Is the Government committed to its implementation, or will it be revised?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am the Vice Chairman of the Committee on Energy, Roads and Transportation. We will answer the question relating to our Committee in a week’s time.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I remember a while ago when you directed that when the Chair of a Committee does not come from the Majority side, then he cannot give an answer. The answer and commitment can only come from the Senate Majority Leader. So, is it in order for Sen. Dan Mwazo to purport to bind the Government of Kenya to issue a statement?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am the Vice Chair of that Committee. When an answer is given, it is given by an individual on behalf of the Chair of that Committee. So, the answer will be given by the Committee Chair on behalf of the Government.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The point of order raised by the Senate Majority Leader is important. I do not know whether this is the right time, but I think this is an issue that you should apply your time and mind to, so that you give us a comprehensive answer. I am even still wondering when questions come to us, as the Chairs, whether we should just go and seek for written Statements or summon Cabinet Secretaries to come to the Committee and answer the questions. If we have to summon them, then the question that the Senate Majority Leader is raising does not arise. This is because then the Committee owns the answer and brings it to the Floor of the House. But if we allow situations where the Cabinet Secretaries are summoned, then how will we organize this issue? I want to reveal that this issue also arose in the National Assembly yesterday and was canvassed for a long time, as to what does it really mean to be in a Presidential system and be able to answer questions. For example, suppose today I come with a written Statement from the Cabinet Secretary, and then Members in the House have follow-up questions and want to get answers immediately, how will that be addressed? So, whereas the points of order were raised with regard to the Senator for Taita-Taveta, in so far as answering the question coming from the Minority, there are more fundamental issues in terms of how the operations of asking questions, now that the Cabinet Secretaries are not in the House, is concerned. So, I think that whereas there is need for a quick answer, I would like you to apply your mind more and we think through how we will be ventilating these issues again.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I do not know why we are stuck in the old Constitution. We are under the new Constitution. Prof. Kindiki knows that in a Presidential System, a Member of Parliament cannot pretend to answer a question on behalf of the Executive, irrespective of the background of that Member. It does not matter whether you come from the Government or the Minority party. For this reason, what we would be expecting is for the Chairman of the Committee to table a report of their findings during the process of interviewing the Cabinet Secretary for that particular department, to which the question has been directed. Then, if that is what is being tabled here, there is absolutely nothing wrong in the Vice-Chair, even if he comes from the Minority reading and tabling that particular Statement. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Further to that point that has been raised by Sen. Khalwale and Sen. Murkomen, my understanding is that once you are elected as a President or Deputy President, you are called President or Deputy President of the Republic of Kenya and not the republic of Jubilee or CORD. So, my general view is that the commitment and responsibility of every Cabinet Secretary is to the collective or individual who represents also the popular aspiration within the Republic of Kenya. Therefore, I do not think that matters raised here necessarily touch on matters partisan. In fact, the Senate Majority Leader scares me by saying that these questions must only be directed to Members of the Government, who we know often concoct the truth. Therefore, you might sanitize an answer---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The use of the word “concoct” is not parliamentary language. I would want to know whether Sen. Hassan Omar, a Member of the Minority, which is now purporting that it will start representing the Government of Kenya, is in order to say that those of us who come from the Government or Majority side, connive with Cabinet Secretaries to concoct the truth. Is he in order?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will look for a replacement of that particular word, “concoct”, in terms of grammar, so that we can say---
Order, Sen. Hassan!
He asked me about the word “concoct.”
Order, Sen. Hassan! Order, Senators! You are even purporting to answer me and I have not even asked you the question. First, there is even a more important issue that Sen. Kindiki has not raised, that is, imputing improper motive on other Senators. Since you have attempted to change the word, it means that you have admitted that, that word is not appropriate. Once you do so, the natural course of events is to withdraw and apologize.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it was my intention actually to withdraw that particular word, and tell all those who were offended by my statement that it was made in good faith. I, therefore, accordingly apologize for that word.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have withdrawn it. I wish the Deputy Speaker could listen. Mr. Speaker, Sir, to finish my submission on that point, I think that the responsibility of any Government Cabinet Secretary or official is to the collective of the Republic of Kenya, regardless of party or the kind of coalition side that you represent. That Government is the Government of Kenya and not a particular coalition.
We need to conclude this. I will take the five Senators who are standing. Sen. Abdirahman!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will be very brief because this is a matter that has been well ventilated by my colleagues. Whether you are from the Majority or The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is a reason governments are elected and political parties run for power. A question similar to the one asked by Sen. Lonyangapuo, as to when the Government will tarmac a road from point A to point B, can only be answered by the Government in power. It cannot be answered by the Senators of this House or by any other political party. So, I think that there are two things that we need to balance. We cannot summon a Cabinet Secretary just to get an answer to a question before a full Committee. We have to also be alive to that fact; that it really would mean that everyday the Cabinet Secretaries will be here because of questions. We have to balance that with the fact that we also cannot come here to answer on behalf of the Cabinet Secretaries, all matters which will arise from supplementary questions. This is because a Cabinet Secretary can give you a written answer; that, that road will be tarmacked in this or next financial year, but there will be supplementary questions that will come. So, if we, indeed, then allow Members of the Minority to be in a position to respond, then what would happen is that in the supplementary question I asked when the Government will also tarmac the extension from there to another one, a Member of the Minority will stand here and say: “We will tarmac it in the next financial year.” In fact, that would create the kind of situation that Sen. Hassan was complaining about; that Members would then be giving answers that may not be appropriate. So, in my view, what the Senate Majority Leader actually said, that the Vice-Chair should not really undertake to answer on behalf of the Chair, is in order.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we must agree that we are in a new dispensation and it will take us a long time to really cope with some of these new provisions. But there is no Government and Opposition in this House. There are only two things; a Majority Party and a Minority Party in Parliament, and that is the Senate. So, the Executive, which we now call the Government, is very far away from here. We evicted them from this House, and I was one of them. We were evicted from this House and sent to State House. Now, we have recently appointed Cabinet Secretaries and Principal Secretaries. So, do not pretend to be the Government in this House. It does not matter whether you eat lunch and dinner with the President or Deputy President. This House has appointed Committees to do the work that Committees do on behalf of this House. When you go out to do it, on behalf of that House, you come and report to this House. That is why when a question is asked, the Committee deals with it and reports to the House. But you cannot pretend to be a Cabinet Secretary, just because the Cabinet Secretaries were removed from the House and start asking: “How can you be a Cabinet Secretary when you are in the Minority?” It becomes an absurdity. So, Professor, look at this. You are not the Cabinet Secretary---
The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order! Address the Chair!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, just to shorten it, let us accept that we are in a new dispensation in which there is the National Assembly and the Senate, for that matter. Our job is merely to oversight and make law. That is part of oversight. A Committee may be asked: “You are the ones who met the Cabinet Secretary in your Committee. What is he doing?” You then come and report as a Committee, otherwise, we will be “killing” each other here, that a leader of any Committee must be a Member of the Majority, which would be an absurdity. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am a bit surprised because we do not want this House to be turned into a House of copying others. It was only yesterday that this issue was being discussed. Precedence had been set, where Chairmen of Committees have been answering question. I think that it is not only in this House, but it is done in other countries too. I think some Members of the two House believe that we are in a coalition. We are not in a coalition and the Government of today is the Jubilee Government. Therefore, it will be represented by Members of the party.
Order! Order! What is it Sen. Kajwang’?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think that when a senior Member of the House says that we think that we are in a coalition, I think that he is referring to the old coalition. Of course, even Jubilee is a Coalition, but look at the Presidential systems all over the world. America and Nigeria are good examples. If you go to their National Assemblies, you will find that there are no Minister there and no questions being asked. I think that we should revise what we started, because this system is still lingering on. We must cut the umbilical cord and accept that we are now in a Presidential system and this is the Senate and not Government.
I had given the chance to Prof. Kindiki as the last one.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I have listened carefully and I have seen and heard hon. Members of the Opposition who are feeling cold outside Government trying to warm their way into Government through the back door. I want to assure---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I need your protection. They had their time. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am saying I have heard the Senator for Homa Bay, Otieno Kajwang, trying to advise me, together with his brother, the Senator for Kakamega, not to pretend that I am a Minister. First of all, I have no desire of being a Cabinet Secretary in the arrangement. Even if I was appointed, I would say “No, thank you, Sir!” But in terms The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order! Order, Senators! Order! Yes, what is your point of order, Sen. Ongoro?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, is the Senate Majority Leader in order to mislead this House and Kenyans that our Constitution and the political dispensation that we are operating in has got provision for something referred to as de facto Prime Minister? Is he in order?
Conclude, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki!
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I used the word de facto and just to introduce my sister, Sen. Elizabeth Ongoro, to the terminology,
has contradicted from de jure . That suffices. For now, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to proceed and say that under our new Constitution, the Executive is not in this House. Similarly, under the new Constitution, the political leadership of the Opposition is not in this House. But both the Government and the Opposition are represented in this House; the Government Side by the Senate Majority Leader, and the Opposition side by the leader of the few---
The Opposition side is represented by the Senate Minority Leader; that is the correct term, not the leader of the few. Mr. Speaker, Sir, my submission is simple, because the Speaker has directed that we take the shortest time possible on this matter. Where you have a system as ours, it is the political leadership, whether Majority or Minority, that takes over all political issues. I cannot convince myself that the Chair or the Vice Chair, for that matter, of a Committee and a Member of the Opposition can stand here and purport to issue a Statement on behalf of the Jubilee Government. It is unconvincing. That is why there is no infrastructure whatsoever for them to do that. I think we are conflicting on two things. We are conflicting on the normal inquiry that Committees have. The normal inquiries that Committees have is different---
Order! Order, Senator! Order, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki!
Order, Senators! Order! Let me bring this matter to a close. This debate that has interested everybody – which is very good because once the House is united, at least, everybody’s mind is on it – was sparked by the Senate Majority Leader by asking whether a Member of the Minority can purport to represent the Government. He also The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
So, we will use the infrastructure that we have. The Committees of the House are at liberty to summon the Cabinet Secretaries, whether you are the Chair from the Majority side or the Chair-from the Minority side, you are the Chair of the Committee of the Senate.
So, it is not true that the Senate has no machinery or infrastructure. We have a lot of it. So, we will encourage you to use the machinery and infrastructure at your disposal, including summoning witnesses, looking for documents, and nobody will deny you all those things. So, that is the position. We expect from the Chair of the Energy, Roads and Transportation to get that report--- Did you say next week?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir, on Thursday.
Okay, Thursday, next week. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Yes, it is on the same matter, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
No, no, no! I have to caution that you will be treading on a very dangerous path, Sen. Kerrow.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I respect your ruling and I have no intention of challenging it. But I just want a clarification. For example, on the two statements that were requested from us to clarify whether you are suggesting that in respect of all these statements and questions that have been sought, do we call for a full Committee meeting in which we invite the Cabinet Secretary to come and respond and, therefore, bring a resolution that is based on decisions that have been made in consultation with others? Is that the ruling for all subsequent instances; which also means that, then, we will not be taking supplementary questions which arise on the Floor in respect of that particular matter?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree with your ruling. That has been my position. But I want to ask if we can also consider, with your final substantive ruling, if there are situations of national importance – very important situations – that the Committee of the Whole can invite the Cabinet Secretary to the House so that he can answer certain issues that, perhaps, require clarification? This suggestion is also going to the Committee that is working on the Standing Orders, so that it looks at infrastructure for dealing with such situations.
Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, is it on the same?
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): I just want to clarify, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Okay; only give clarifications. Do not attempt to respond because that is my job.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I respect your ruling. I am bound by your ruling although I disagree with it.
The trouble I see and this is why we need to give a bit of seriousness on this matter rather than just looking at it casually or how easy it is, especially considering the difference between the routine work of Committees where they can summon and inquire from Cabinet Secretaries or other State Officers, vis a vis the usual administrative, routine issues of operations of Government that happen every day--- Because almost every Thursday, you are going to have ten questions directed at the Government. Therefore, if a The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order! Order, hon. Senators! Let us not deny the Senate Majority Leader his opinions!
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): There is a reason, Mr. Speaker, Sir, because what is going to happen is that a Member of a Committee from the Opposition will stand here and casually say: “in two days’ time, you will have an answer,” especially if there is an urgent issue. They have no infrastructure. I repeat; they have no infrastructure of getting Cabinet Secretaries or getting the President. Some of these things will require---
Order, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki!
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Some of these things will require quick action.
Order, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity. I am one of those Chairmen of Committees who is from the Minority party. I do not see any conflict whatsoever because if a Question arises, it is my duty with the assistance of the Senate Majority Leader to get the appropriate answer from the Government. I will come and give that answer here to the best of my ability, but that should mean that after I have reflected on that answer correctly, I am not precluded from taking my own opinion on the matter. That is the position I have taken on this issue. An issue has arisen as to whether a Minister can be summoned to appear before the House. To me, to summon a Minister to appear before the House is to elevate the Minister to a higher role than he really is. The Minister should be summoned by the Committee which is dealing with the subject matter of which he is a Minister. The only people that can be summoned by the House is the Head of State, the President or the Deputy President, but nothing lower than that. Anything can be dealt with at that level. So, we - chairmen who are from the Minority- can perform, but all we ask and is that the Senate Majority Leader should facilitate us to get the appropriate answers from the Minister, together with all the information that is required. Consequently, I support your ruling.
On a point of clarification, Mr. Speaker, Sir!
Do you want us to spend the whole afternoon on this particular matter?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, while I respect your ruling and all the views which have been given this far, the fact is, the old sessions which we used to call Question Time are not going to be with us and I do not think the issues which are being raised here are about normal Ordinary Questions or Question Time because that is no The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not see the problem here. First of all, you cannot summon the President or the Deputy President with all due respect to the Attorney-General emeritus, so that they can come and address us at will, when they think that there is something that they want to address. We do not need the Senate Majority Leader to facilitate a chairman of a committee. The chairman of a committee is facilitated by the Speaker and can summon anybody at any time. Secondly, all of us can attend any Committee meeting when we want to. If you think there is a matter of interest to you in the Committee on Energy, Roads and Transportation and you want to listen to the Cabinet Secretary, you can go to that Committee and listen to him or her. In fact, we want to go against the Constitution. The Constitution intended that the Executive be out of this House and now you want to bring them back. The Executive must stay where they are and can only be summoned by a Committee of the House. If this House wants to turn itself into a Committee of the Whole, and I do not know which Committee that will be, because it must first be a Standing Committee, before it can summon a Minister. But if the House wants to turn itself into a Committee, maybe there can be such a resolution, but the Speaker will not be sitting where he is. I am sure the Chairman of that Committee should be the one sitting there. Please, do not bring us what we want to run away from. There were some strengths and weaknesses in it but the country decided that the Executive should be out of this House. So, do not bring them back.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, my request to you is to explore the Question I brought at the onset of the Senate because your ruling must be futuristic and must be able to stand the test of time. There can be a situation where the President or the Executive comes from the minority party while the Majority Leader in the Senate comes from a different party. This is also a possibility. Therefore, as you deliver your ruling, I will also be hoping to be advised in the event that that occurs because it also tallies with the situation at hand.
The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I seek clarification from the Leader of Majority or the “leader of many” as he prefers to call himself. I believe that he is attempting to communicate something and, probably, he is privy to some information that we are not aware of. He has stated very clearly that these chairmen, who he now refers to as opposition chairmen might not have the infrastructure to get the answers from the Ministers. Is he under any directive, has he gotten some information or have the Cabinet Secretaries been informed or instructed that if a chairman who is perceived to be coming from Opposition wants any kind of information from their respective Ministries, then they should not provide it? These Senators that he is referring to as Opposition were procedurally seconded to those Committees by their respective parties and eventually elected by all the Senators who were in that Committee coming from both the majority party and minority party. So, they are popularly elected chairmen, who got votes from both sides. They have the mandate of both the majority and minority parties. What does the Senate Majority Leader mean when he says that they do not have the infrastructure? Could he clarify?
Order, Senator! You have made your point.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have no problem with anybody looking for information from anywhere. I am just communicating a very simple fact here. I do not even think it is morally correct from a political stand point for a Senator, whether a Chair or a Vice Chair from the Opposition to stand here and read or defend a Government Statement which most likely his or her own political party disagrees with. I agree with Sen. Kajwang that the Executive is out there, but it has a representative. That representative is the Senate Majority Leader, period. The Opposition has a representative who is the Senate Minority Leader. We are not here as flower girls. We are here to do some business, but we are partisan. We have decided and we have said it before and we repeat it today, that we have no opposition. We have no issues with anybody looking for information. Before I sit down, I want to say that if my friends in the Minority side want to join the Government, they are welcome.
Order, Senators! Do not be too angry at the Senate Majority Leader to the extent that you will also get the wrath of the Speaker. When the Speaker is on his feet, you know what to do. Both of us cannot be on our feet at the same time. You should resume your seat. Let us conclude this, hon. Senators. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You will recall that on 23rd May this year, the Chairman of the Committee on Devolution read here a Statement upon my request for him to assure the House that the Department of Devolution was not created for us to control the county governments. He gave a very good answer and he went ahead and assured us that the Cabinet Secretary was going to purely serve on an advisory role. The same Cabinet Secretary that he was referring to has been reported to have directed that before the end of this week, she wants all ---
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you are on what matter?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am on a point of order where I am requesting that you give a directive because I am not seeking a Statement from the chairman, I am just on a point of order to seek for your direction. The same Cabinet Secretary is reported to have directed all the county governments to deposit, before the end of this week, their budget proposals in her office. When I look at this, it is a direct mirror image of what the defunct Ministry of Local Government used to do to local authorities. I find that this directive has no foundation in law. In fact, it is in breach of Article 6 (2) of the Constitution of Kenya. It is attempting to control county governments. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am, therefore, requesting that you direct this House how we should proceed on this new development in furthering of our role as a constitutional organ that is supposed to protect those counties and their governments. So that I am abundantly clear, because I saw the Senate Majority Leader make faces at me, Article 6 (2) clearly provides that the two levels of Government are distinct and any business taking place between them can only take place upon consultations. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. If what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale was talking about is true, then it would be unconstitutional. However, I do not believe that it is in order for him to come and seek such a very important statement in this House, when basically what he is using is hearsay. He has quoted the newspapers while we know that sometimes newspaper articles cannot be relied on because it is not a policy position. He must table the policy position before asking you for directions. He must table the policy framework or statement that would allow him to stand here and seek your direction.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am alive to the fact that the rules of debate do not allow us to refer to media reports. All that I said in plain English language was that it has been reported. If my county government has reported to me and another county government has also reported to me as a Senator of the Republic of Kenya, then it is reported.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have also received some information from Homa Bay County that the Governor, as the head of that government, has been required to submit to the Cabinet Secretary in charge of devolution, their budget. I do not know under what provision of the law that request has been made. In fact, it no longer sounds like a request, but an order. We know where budgets go. We know that the county government makes its budget and submits it to Treasury and if, of course, the Minister in charge of devolution – which as I earlier said is a mistake – decides to see that information for whatever reason, because I think they also have some money that they can grant to the counties, there is a clear communication between her and Treasury. We do not see how a Governor will be summoned by anybody because that is a separate government. In fact, they only meet the President at the Summit. That is what the Constitution provides. We are not going to start joking around in this House. Our job is to protect and defend county governments against the national Government.
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you are raising very important issues, but as the Chairman of the Committee on Devolution has observed, you do not rise on a point of order to raise such an issue. You should have sought a proper statement from the chairman of the committee and then you would be given an appropriate response. More fundamentally for me, you are now acquiring a bad habit of ambushing the Chair. You know we do not do that in this business. This is serious business; we operate on full disclosures, at least, at the level of the Chair and the responsible Senator. Since this is the first time I am responding to you on this particular one, I think it is now time we gave the punishment because you are not a new parliamentarian; you are a senior one and you know it. So, the only assumption the Chair can draw is that you want to treat the House and the Chair with a lot of contempt. I will not throw you out, you will suffer the consequences of your Statement not being answered for now. But if you formulate it in a good way, we will entertain it. For now, nobody should respond to it. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek a Statement from the chairman of the Standing Committee on Energy, Roads and Transportation on the following:- Given the importance of the Maseno-Kombewa-Akado-Asembo Bay Road; realizing that this road joins Maseno Township where Maseno University is situated to the neighbouring Siaya County; aware that there is already heavy commercial use of this road; noting that since 1984 this road has from time to time been earmarked to be bituminized without this being done, could the Chairperson inform the Senate;- 1. Whether there is allocation in the current Budget for this road to be bitumized. 2. How much money has been allocated, and; 3. When the tender will be awarded for bituminization of the road. Thank you.
Anybody Member of the Committee? Vice- Chairman!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have just come into the Chamber. I have not heard the Question, but I will go through the HANSARD to be able to give a definite date as to when we can answer that.
In two weeks’ time, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
There was also the matter of the Statement by Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo on Vision 2030. The Chairman of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs did not give an indicative date.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
No, I will not entertain it. Just sit with the Vice- Chairman and I am sure you will sort yourselves.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Just for the record. I beg your indulgence, if I remember well, if we put the reply in two weeks, there is likelihood that we shall have gone on recess. I was requesting that you allow me and the Vice-Chairman to discuss an earlier date so as not to risk the time he has given being overtaken by events.
If you had heeded to my instructions, you would have already consulted him and come up with an earlier date. That is what should be on record.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to seek the assistance of the Chair. About three weeks ago, I requested the Senate Majority Leader, who wants us to address him as the defacto Prime Minister, to give a statement on an urgent matter which has now become a national crisis; the issue of miraa. He requested for the indulgence of the Chair so that we give him up to Thursday, last week which we did. Last week, he also requested for indulgence and sought The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
In fact, Sen. Kiraitu Murungi, you do not need any assistance from the Chair. We had already agreed with the Senate Majority Leader that he has a couple of statements to dispose of. One is yours, on the Government Efforts to Support Miraa Traders, the second one by Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o on the Territorial Status of Migingo Island, Construction of the Ciakiriga-Meru-Mitunguu Road and, finally, on Provision of Security to County Assembly Speakers. Yours are due today but Sen. Anyang’-Nyongo’s is due next week. I am sure that he is very ready to demonstrate the defacto powers. GOVERNMENT EFFORTS TO SUPPORT MIRAA TRADERS
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will take that statement at face value. First and foremost, I am aware that those statements are due today. I am surprised that Sen. Murungi took the direction that he took because before I left the Chamber, shortly, I had talked to him and we agreed on how to handle this matter. However, I understand him because of the pressure he is facing from stakeholders, especially farmers of miraa . I understand why he has turned around again and said that the delays are overdue. He knows what I am saying. We have consulted extensively. The issue of miraa is extremely complex. It has international dimensions and has inconclusive scientific findings all over the world. This has been in the news and both Sen. Murungi and other Senators will appreciate that this is not a very easy matter. We have discussed with relevant Government officials at all levels and it is only this morning that we agreed on a statement which can be read in this House on behalf of the Government of Kenya, finally. What we had earlier was inconclusive and we thought would not do justice to all the interests of the stakeholders, given the complexity of this matter. I have explained these details to Sen. Kiraitu Murungi. On a light note, since I am about to ask for a comprehensive statement, for sure, to be read next week because we only agreed on it today, including the contours that the Cabinet Secretary should handle, I want to warn my colleagues from the Opposition who are clamouring for the position of answering questions on behalf of the Government of Kenya that it will be extremely tough and rough.
The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Prof. Kindiki, who is also the Senate Majority Leader, seems to be fixed on things which are gone. There is something he referred to as the Opposition in this House. He has referred to this again and again. We changed our Standing Orders. However, in those Standing Orders, we refer to the Official Opposition and the Government side.
Sen. Kajwang, are you making a point of order or debating?
Madam Temporary Speaker, this is a point of order. Is he in order to keep on talking about the Opposition in this House and some people pretending to be the Government in the House when we have no Government here?
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, I will be brief. There is Government in this House and there is the Opposition. Period! No amount of pretence or amnesia will prevent us from saying that there are two sides in this House. Of course, we have agreed to work in a bi-partisan manner on national issues. However, in terms of political parties, we come from two different parties. Period! That is why we have the Majority side and the Minority side which is another way of saying Government and the Opposition or if you like, the many and the few. Period! I do not think we should belabour this point. If my brother and sister Senators are not happy to be referred to as the Minority or the Opposition, this is simple: Defect enmass, join the Jubilee Coalition and this will be a Jubilee Senate.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I have a lot of respect for Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki who is my neighbour. Four times now, he has alluded to the fact that there could be a possibility of any Members of the CORD Coalition willing to join and be part of the Jubilee Coalition. I want to tell him, categorically, that we have no desire and do not require joining the Jubilee Coalition. We are comfortable where we are and we will give them the value that we have because we do not think that this Government is serving the interests of the people of Kenya.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker, Sir. Would I be in order to ask Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki not command us in this House? He should not ask us to defect to Jubilee. We came here in our own rights. We were elected to come here. We were not pushed to come here. Is he in order to stand here and indicate that those who are uncomfortable should join the Jubilee Coalition? Comfortable being where? We are in this House in our own rights, we represent our people. Where is the House for Jubilee?
No, no, no! Control your tone. Could we get a response from Prof. Kindiki on the three points of order that have been raised before we proceed?
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, we are going round, but this is just the same thing. We are just talking about the same thing. The problem I see is that the Opposition, the Minority or the few are in a state of denial. To contextualize why I have say so, on one hand, they are very--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. I had very specific requests. When are my three statements going to be read regarding miraa, the road and about the security of the County Assembly Speakers? These issues are being clouded and avoided by references to the Opposition, among other things. Can we cut these irrelevancies and talk strictly about miraa, the road and the security? The rest we can talk over some coffee out there.
The Senate Majority Leader, you are out of order in that respect. Could you specifically address the issues that have been requested by Sen. Murungi?
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, I will answer all the three questions on Thursday, next week with your permission. I stand my ground on everything I have said here.
Sen. Murungi, are you not satisfied with that?
Madam Temporary Speaker, the answers were supposed to be given last week. This was postponed to today. The Senate Majority Leader said that the issue of miraa is very complicated and has international and local dimensions. He also went on to say that there is inconclusive research going on as far as miraa is concerned. However, we have read a lot. Let him not confuse issues. The research on miraa has been extensive and has been concluded. The World Health Organisation (WHO) has already said that miraa is not a drug. The British Home Office has a big report that says that miraa is not a drug. Our own law, passed by Parliament by 1984 also says that miraa is not a drug. So, that avenue should not be used to delay us in receiving these answers. Could the hon. Senate Majority Leader state categorically that come rain come sunshine, we will have that statement on Thursday, next week and that will be the last indulgence we will give him? We also want statements regarding the two other requests. They were supposed to be given today. The Speakers are exposing themselves out there without any security. The road we are talking about also passes through his county. The construction has stalled. Could the Senate Majority Leader pull up his socks and move with speed?
The Senate Majority Leader, the three issues touch on security, infrastructure and the economy of the counties concerned. These are pertinent issues. I am also aware that you were supposed to have given these answers earlier. You are completely out of order to continue debating without giving a specific answer or a date which is not more than seven days from today when Sen. Murungi will get his substantive answers and statements. Stick to that issue.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, with your indulgence, I want to repeat very calmly and humbly, that all the three questions will be answered on Thursday, next week.
Sen. Murungi, are you comfortable with Thursday, next week? We are not taking further extension on that date. Are you comfortable? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I am comfortable.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Senate Majority Leader has assured us that the reason there has been a delay is because they wanted to come with a considered opinion which to me is acceptable. That being the case, could he come here with a comprehensive statement because the Senate cannot sit here and watch while the Government is sitting and killing the economy of any county? The Government of the late President Kenyatta, former President Moi, and---
Sen. Khalwale, stick to the point of order. Refer us to what is out of order.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I am rising for further information so that he can come with a more comprehensive statement. Those three Governments---
You should have risen on a point of clarification. If you rose on a point of order, you should direct our attention to what is out of order. The Senate Majority Leader, that matter has been settled. In reference to all the other matters, the Speaker already ruled on your earlier statements. That matter rests. Next Order! The Senate Majority Leader, you have not given us the business for next week. Before you leave, can you take us through that? You did not inform the Chair that you had delegated that duty to the Chief Whip. Proceed! BUSINESS FOR THE WEEK COMMENCING TUESDAY, 16TH JULY, 2013
Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki: Madam Temporary Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.43 (2), I wish to present the Senate business for the coming week commencing Tuesday, 16th July, 2013. The Rules and Business Committee will meet on Tuesday 16th July, 2013, at 12 noon to schedule business for the Senate for the week commencing Tuesday 16th July, 2013. The Senate will continue with the business in today’s Order Paper that will not be concluded. The Senate will also commence debate on a Motion by Sen. Zipporah Kittony on effective measures to protect watersheds and riparian resources, and consider any other business to be scheduled by the Rules and Business Committee. On Wednesday 17th July, 2013, morning sitting, the Senate will continue with business not concluded on Tuesday, 16th July, 2013. The Senate will also commence debate on a Motion by Sen. Naisula Lesuuda on facilitation of county governments to set up modern abattoirs and related facilities to stimulate livestock production and consider any other business scheduled by the Rules and Business Committee. During the afternoon sitting, the Senate will continue with the business not concluded on Tuesday and Wednesday morning, and consider any other business scheduled by the Rules and Business Committee. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
That is okay. Sen. (Prof) Anyang’-Nyong’o had earlier sought a Statement from the Chairman of the Committee on Energy, Roads and Transport, and he requested that he be given a few minutes to go through the HANSARD. Are you ready to proceed?
Madam Temporary Speaker, we shall give the Statement on 24th July, 2013.
That is okay. Last week, a Statement by the Committee on Devolution and Planning was deferred to today. Sen. Murkomen, are you ready with the Statement?
Madam Temporary Speaker, I think that the person who requested for the Statement is not here. But it is important to note that because of the weight of the question that he had asked and the continuous public discourse on the issue of devolution and allocation of functions and resources, the Committee decided to invite the Cabinet Secretary in charge of Devolution and Planning tomorrow, where the issues will be canvassed comprehensively and thereafter tabled in this House. Madam Temporary Speaker, I would have hoped that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale was in the House, but he is invited to attend tomorrow’s session. Thank you.
Sen. Murkomen, you did not tell us how much time you---
Madam Temporary Speaker, I have said that after tomorrow’s discussion with the--- First of all, I want to invite the Senator to the Committee meeting tomorrow for purposes of canvassing this issues, so that we can ask for clarifications. Actually, any other Senator who is here and is interested in the current discourse on the questions of allocation of resources, transfer of functions and so forth, is invited. Thereafter, next week on Tuesday we will be able to table the report.
That is okay. Next week on Tuesday! Next Order!
Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Proceed, Sen. Wamatangi.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise to second the very thoughtful and timely Motion moved by Sen. Elachi. Madam Temporary Speaker, at this time in our country, the least that can be said is about the place that the youth of this country need to be in. As we speak now, this country has a population of just over 40 million and out of that population, more than 25 million Kenyans are young people; and more than half of that number are within the bracket of the young people who are targeted by this Motion and who qualify in various aspects of their youth to join and benefit from services and training offered by the NYS. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Madam Temporary Speaker, one of the greatest challenges facing this country is unemployment and under-employment particularly among the youth. This is a worrying phenomenon. It creates hopelessness and undermines human dignity. This Motion by Sen. Elachi calls on us in this Senate and, indeed, calls upon all Kenyans to seriously reflect on the status and plight of our young people who find themselves in this situation. This is a situation in which at a very early stage in their lives, they find themselves at the dead end of the journey with no hope for the future. Madam Temporary Speaker, in 2008, 812,000 candidates sat for the Kenya Certificate of Primary Education (KCPE). Out of this, over 200,000 candidates could not find places in Form One and could not proceed to secondary schools. This happened for various reasons including poor grades, lack of money to buy uniforms to go to secondary schools and so on. At that early age, they have dropped out of school and society does not seem to care what happens to them after that. In the same year, 438,000 candidates sat for the Kenya Certificate of Secondary Examination (KCSE). Out of these, only 130,000 students attained an average grade of C+ and above. The remaining students are those who scored below C+. The large majority of them scored grade D+ or below. Therefore, with those poor grades, they cannot obtain admission to colleges and universities. The question which we should be asking ourselves is: Where do these young people go? What happens to them thereafter? What do they do with their lives? What options do they have? Madam Temporary Speaker, in trying to answer those questions, you will see the importance of the Motion which Sen. Elachi has brought here. Where do these young people go when they have dropped out of school? In Kisii County, if you are a boy at that age, after dropping out of school, you go and settle in the village with your family or parents. They are not occupied in anything meaningful at that level. So, they are largely idle and they move freely in the village. They visit the local markets frequently and after a short while, they get married. They do not pay dowry because they do not have resources. That headache is left to the parents. A little later, they demand to get a portion of the family land. Of course, in Kisii, that does not exist. This marks the beginning of family quarrels and the beginning of despair. Out of despair and frustration, the boy who has now graduated into a man drifts into drinking alcohol and possibly engaging in hard drugs. To sustain this habit or even to meet his basic needs and that of his young family, he is tempted into crime beginning with petty theft, housebreaking, then a little later, he graduates into more sophisticated crimes like robbery and drug trafficking. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Asante sana, Bi Spika wa Muda, kwa nafasi hii. Kwanza, ningependa kumpongeza Sen. Elachi kwa kuleta Hoja huu. Leo nina hakika kwamba kama kuna vijana wanaoangalia runinga, wataona kwamba kwa mara ya kwanza, Seneti imeweza kuongea masuala yanayohusiana na vijana. Ninampongeza Sen. Elachi. Hoja hii inalenga watoto maskini kule mashinani na ikiwa itapitishwa, ninaamini kwamba suala la MRC litatatuliwa. Mara nyingi kumekuwa na recruitment ya wanajeshi na vijana wetu wamekosa kuchukuliwa kwa sababu kila kitu kilikuwa kikifanyika huku juu na sio mashinani. Kama kutaanzishwa mambo kama haya kwenye kaunti, basi huenda vijana wetu watajiona wamekumbukwa na watapata kazi ya kufanya. Tukiangalia kwetu pwani, vijana wengi wakifika sekondari wanashindwa kuendelea na masomo kwa sababu hatuna ajira yoyote ya kuweza kusomesha watoto wetu. Kwa mfano, mimi sikuwa na baba, mama yangu hakuwa na title deed na sikuweza kuendelea kusoma. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. Mbura, ulianza na Kiswahili kwa hivyo utaendelea kwa Kiswahili.
Asante sana. Mama yangu hakuwa na cheti cha kumiliki ardhi ambacho pengine angepeana kwa benki na akapewa mkopo. Pengine ningesoma zaidi na nikawa kama wenzangu. Kwa hivyo, huu ni mjadala mzuri ambao kama Maseneta wengine wangekuwa hapa, leo kungekuwa na changamoto nzuri sana ya kuweza kufafanua Hoja hii zaidi. Ningetaka kusema kwamba Hoja hii itakapozaa Mswada na kuwa sheria ili NYS iweze kupelekwa kwenye kaunti, sheria zisiwe kama zile za jeshi letu wakati wanapofanya recruitment . Ningependa wazingatie umri. Mara nyingi nyingi huwa wameweka kiwango cha umri na watoto wa kwetu wa Kimijikenda wanasoma kuchelewa. Wanapofika sekondari hao huwa hata miaka 27 na wakati mwingine huwa wameoa. Ningesisitiza kwamba kusiwe na ubaguzi wa kikabila katika kufanya recruitment kwa sababu kuna Wakikuyu na Wajaluo waliozaliwa kule pwani. Inafaa masuala haya yatiliwe maanani wakati wa recruitment ya NYS. Hawa ni watu ambao kama hawachukuliwi, wataenda wapi? Wakati mwingine vijana hutakikana wasiwe na kovu, ilhali wakati wanapocheza mpira huwa wanaumia. Kijana akipatikana na kovu huwa hawachukuliwi kwenye NYS kwa sababu ya kovu. Ni lazima Serikali itilie maanani kwa sababu vijana wetu wote wanaumia wanapocheza na ni lazima watakuwa na kovu. Ninaunga mkono. Asante.
Madam Temporary Speaker, let me start by saying that I support the Motion and I want to thank Sen. Elachi for bringing this Motion. This morning, there was a radio programme in one of the FM radio stations; I think it was Radio Ramogi, and they were talking about the National Youth Service. It was a joke that really made me laugh; that when you go to the NYS, you are trained how to use the shovel; how to throw it this way and that way, and sometimes you learn how to slap your wife with it. I was quite amused. They were trying to degrade a very serious training. I want to give you a very personal story. There was a young man who is since deceased. He was my cousin and could not go to school because the father could not afford to pay the school fees. I took it upon myself to pay for his fees up to Form Four. I remember one day, he came to my office to take the last cheque when he was going to Form Four and he had not tucked in his shirt. I was so furious that I had paid the fees and he was showing me madharau . So, I told him: Kirigi, tuck in your shirt. Then he tucked in one side and left the other side hanging. So, that annoyed me even more. I remember boxing him very hard and telling him that he should not take me for granted because I do not have to pay his fees.
I pambanad with him very seriously.
Order Sen. Kajwang, you have to be consistent.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I gave him the cheque but after he left Form Four and because of the adolescence stage, he got a C+. He would have gone to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for this opportunity. This is a very important Motion that has been brought by Sen. Elachi who was once my secretary at the APK Party that brought her to this House. I stand to support the Motion. When the second liberation was going on, I tried to trace the history of this country. I also looked at the issues that used to be dealt with by the National Youth Service (NYS). One of them was the construction of the road between Thika and Kitui. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. Muthama, can you substantiate that and give us evidence?
Madam Temporary Speaker, I said that I am talking as a businessman. Before I move to invest Kshs10, the first thing I ensure is that there is profit. I am talking as a businessman. This money should be given to the NYS because they do not look at profits. When this money is given to the Chinese Government, it is taken out. They must take money where they come from. You must take your money back home where you come from. If this money was to be used by a Government institution, the 40 per cent would employ more Kenyans and the entire Kshs30 billion would be retained in this country. There is no other way of creating jobs in this country. Madam Temporary Speaker, we are now talking about irrigating one million acres, but the Government does not have structures to do the same. They intend to invite foreign and private investors. If proper measures were put in place to irrigate the one million acres, considering that we have young people who need jobs that would have created more than one million jobs. If you engage one person per acre, one million acres will create one million jobs. There will be plenty of food produced and the price of essential commodities will come down. Madam Temporary Speaker, this Motion is very important and since the Chief Whip who moved it comes from the Jubilee Government, it is my sincere hope that she will move and tell the President: “We have done this and this is what we want you to do. Commission this now and forget about spending our money on private investors and contractors. The Government contracts should be given to young people.” Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to support.
Madam Temporary Speaker, since there is nobody else who is ready to speak, I think that I should push myself to say something. Madam Temporary Speaker, we have been treated in this House to all good information by those who have spoken before, especially from Sen. Kajwang. They have talked very well about the problems facing the youth and the country as a whole. We also talk about our youth being 70 per cent of the population, but nobody has ever come out to tell us: “It is true that our youth out there are 70 per cent.” That is one question that needs to be investigated. Are we talking the right thing? It is only from there that we can now start thinking of what to do. Madam Temporary Speaker, one of the speakers talked about how other developing countries are serious with their own youth. If you go by the political history of the Far East and the Eastern Bloc, you will find that in 1917, the biggest problem which happened in Russia was because of what is confronting us today; that we have given birth to so many young men and women and just continue doing so, without asking ourselves: “Wait a minute, are we really planning for them?” Nobody is thinking about that because we have lost a very important ingredient in any nation, that is, nationalism. We have ignored nationalism and patriotism. We were trained by someone – I do not The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.
What is your point of order, Sen. Mugo?
Madam Temporary Speaker, is the Senator in order to mislead this House by saying that the Coalition Government that he was talking about as aiding women was just playing politics, when we know women who benefitted from those billions that he is talking about? It is true and I can affirm that in my constituency; I know many groups and many other areas which benefitted from this program of the Coalition Government. It was not just political talk, and I think the Senator is misleading this House. Can he prove and substantiate that there was no help going to women and even to youth, for that matter?
Sen. G.G. Kariuki, are you misleading the House? Can you elaborate your claims?
Order, Sen. Mugo! You have been heard; do not be caught out of order yourself.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I think my friend, Sen. Mugo, who just came in, maybe she did not follow the beginning of this discussion. I respect what she is saying, that “some women” benefitted; but we are not talking about some women here. We want women in general to be treated the way we are promising them; not bit by bit, because they belong here, they own this country and they do not need to be cheated for us to feel comfortable.
Madam Temporary Speaker, the youth were promised Kshs1 billion and the women were promised Kshs2 billion. I come from a county where most people live in the village; very, very few of them have benefitted, and we want them to be on the front line. Let us see them being helped all the time. Madam Temporary Speaker, with these few remarks, I thank you very much and I beg to support. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Your time is up, Sen. G.G. Kariuki! Sen. Kanainza.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity. I really appreciate Sen. Elachi for bringing this Motion that touches on the youth. It is a great pity when we look at the youth and the type of life they live out there. As the Senate, we have taken a good step to bring this Motion and discuss it. We want measures to be taken in order to deal with issues affecting the youth. Article 55 of the Constitution talks about the youth and I quote:- “The State shall take measures including affirmative action---
Order, Senators! Sen. Kanainza is on the Floor, can you consult quietly?
Madam Temporary Speaker, Article 55 of the Constitution talks about the youth and I quote:- “The State shall take measures including affirmative action programmes to ensure that the youth; (a) Access relevant education and training--- This is what we are talking about. We are talking about the National Youth Service. (b) To access employment.” Every time we talk about unemployment of the youth. This is because measures to engage them in productive work have not been put in place. Very soon, the way we see teachers on the streets demonstrating for their rights, the youths will also steps to demand for the rights that they have been denied and yet it is in the Constitution. Madam Temporary Speaker, young people who get grade A to C+ are accommodated in the society but you ask yourself what happens to the other young people who are the majority. This is the remaining group that gets C to D-. What happens to the youths who drop out at Standard Eight? If we consider the NYS, I believe they will be accommodated. The Government has not put a lot of consideration to this population; the so called dot.com generation. They have been left to live a carefree type of life. After Form Four what happens to you is none of their business. I can remember when I was growing up, after Form Four, our parents and those who were in school at that time went through this system which brought fruitful results. If this thing will be put in place, our youth are going to get knowledge through training. They are going to get skills like homecraft. Right now, we have some young people who cannot sew a button on their clothes because that skill is no longer taught in our academic system. We are going to have masonry skills in building and construction, carpentry, mechanics and electricians and skills in agriculture. If we impact this knowledge to the young people, we will encourage self-employment. So, we shall not be talking about a situation where one must get a white collar job. Secondly, we shall achieve discipline. Sen. Kajwang has just talked about the boy who saluted him. Actually, that is the discipline that our people will have and which is no more in today’s generation. Thirdly, there is the culture or manner of dressing. When we The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to support this Motion. It is a very important Motion and I want to congratulate the Mover, Sen. Elachi, because it is very timely. As we have always said, the foundation of any nation is its youth. We can never realize sustainable development unless we train and model our youths. Indeed, that is what I believe was in the mind of those who started the NYS. As we know, in many other countries, there is either service in the forces where they trained to protect their countries and in others, there is some kind of service that the young people go through. We can liken this NYS to that service. At the heart of our needs, even protection is also a big issue. There is definitely the need to feed our nation. When we look around, you will see that we have the manpower, as one of the Senators said, in these youths. We also have plans to irrigate the country and change from depending on rainfed agriculture to irrigation. We should urge the department concerned that in their plans - and this is a continuation because even irrigation has been going on in the previous Governments – they should plan in a way that will enable us to utilize our youths. I do not believe that the Government is in the business of running big corporations. That is why the Government encourages private partnerships. In this private partnership, we must make sure and encourage that our youths are taken care of. If irrigation is happening in a certain county, the youths in that county must be put to work and not to bring others from other areas. Even as we bring the machinery, we must sure make that the youths are given the opportunity to work so that some of this money is left in that county. In order for these youths to be utilized properly, we, definitely, need to instill discipline and train them and do capacity building. This is where the NYS can give a lot of support especially as the Mover of this Motion proposes, if this will be introduced in all counties. Therefore, I do support introducing this service in all counties so that we prepare the youths to understand the value of work. In the last Government when a policy was made that certain Ministries utilize the youths like the Ministry of Roads, Ministry of Environment and Mineral Resources and so on, in some areas including my former constituency Dagoretti, when they were being hired by the District Commissioners, the District Officers and the Ministry, the youths told me that such work is for their wives. For us, we are not going to do that kind of work. Therefore, there is need to educate and inform this youth that all work is dignified and good as long as it is paying and putting food on the table. The big jobs cannot be operational if the other jobs down here are not done. Therefore, everybody is important in whatever job they do. There are no small and big jobs. All work that is readily available should be done. I want to urge the youth to stop looking at these jobs as small. Even farming in their parents’ farms is a good job. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Hon. Senators, it is now 6.05 p.m. and I draw your attention to Standing Order No.33(1), (2) and (3). Sen. Obure had earlier sought leave of the House to discuss an urgent matter of national importance which in the Speaker’s opinion qualifies as such and, therefore, we shall now proceed to give Senator Obure the time.
Thank you very much Madam Temporary Speaker. It was actually Sen. Khaniri who requested the Speaker to allow a Motion of Adjournment, and I The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. On behalf of the people of Kakamega County who are distant cousins of the Abagusii people, in whose county this disaster befell, I want to register my heartfelt condolences to the parents, the entire membership of the families and to the entire leadership of the area led by the distinguished Sen. Chris Obure, hon. Jimmy Angwenyi, the local Member of Parliament and hon. Richard Onyonka, the Member of Parliament for the neighbouring constituency that was recently split. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to enable me also express my condolences to the victims of the tragic accident that occurred last night at Nyambunde in Bobasi Sub-County. Madam Temporary Speaker, may I also join the Head of our Delegation, Sen. Chris Obure, in expressing my condolences to the families of all those who lost their dear ones; the nine students and four of our teachers who tragically passed away. I hope that God will comfort and give the necessary fortitude to all these families. Madam Temporary Speaker, I also would like to thank our county government, led by our dear Governor, Jimmy Ongwae, his deputy and all his officials, for the speedy action that they took last night. In fact, when I was called, I was the first person to call them, so that they could send an ambulance to the site. I also sent a vehicle to support The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Yes, Sen. Kajwang? You have exactly five minutes.
Madam Temporary Speaker, first of all, I want to send my personal condolences and the condolences of Homa Bay County residents – who are neighbours of Kisii County – we feel the loss as neighbours and as members who come from one region. I want to send my personal condolences to the families and relatives who have suffered this loss. When we talk about young people having accidents, sometimes you do not have very good words to say. You feel pain and sometimes you do not say the right things because, really, they should not die. Most people would wish that their children buried them; most parents wish that they would live and be buried by their children and when it is the opposite, it is very, very painful, especially when it is because of human error. I think most of the accidents that we have registered in this country, especially with school children coming from music festivals or sports, have been registered at night. I want to support what Sen. Ong’era has said, that we should do something about it; that we should not allow school children to travel at the night. Of course, there are other good professionals who travel at night because they are on the road for 24 hours – these are the commercial drivers – but for school children especially to protect them--- I remember President Moi ordering at one time that children will only travel during daylight and if by 6.00 o’clock, you have not reached your destination, you should take your vehicle to the nearest police station. For a long time, we have not heard of this tragedy, but whenever it happens, it usually happens at night. Madam Temporary Speaker, There is also something which the Government should think about. There was a time when I was still a young man at the University of Nairobi, and this road from Nairobi to Thika used to have accidents almost every day The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Your time is up, Sen. Kajwang. Sen. Madzayo!
Bi. Spika wa Muda, asante sana kwa kunipa nafasi hii. Pia mimi ningependa kujumuika na Maseneta wenzangu na Wakenya wengine kuomboleza vifo vya wanafunzi vilivyotokea kule Kisii. Hawa ni baadhi ya wanafunzi ambao wamechaguliwa na wana akili sana. Kama tunavyojua, ukisomesha mwanafunzi umesomesha taifa nzima. Maisha yao yamekatizwa kwa wakati ambao haujafika. Mimi, familia yangu na watu wote wa Kilifi County ningependa kuwapatia pole sana wazazi wa watoto hawa, familia na jamii zote za watu wa Kisii haswa nikizingatia sana Gavana ambaye ni rafiki yangu, Gavana Ongwae. Ninajua ana wakati mgumu sana wakati huu. Pia ningependa kumwambia kwamba aweke juhudi zake za kuweza kusaidia familia zilizokumbwa na vifo hivi. Pia vile vile ndugu yangu Mbunge wa eneo hilo, Mhe. Jimmy Angwenyi, ili aweze kupata nguvu ya kusaidia familia. Sitamsahau pia Seneta wetu ambaye tuko na yeye hapa; Sen. Obure na dada yetu, Sen. Ongera. Najua kwamba ni watu ambao wanaangaliwa kule nyumbani. Kwa hivyo, mimi ningependa kuwatia moyo na kujua kwamba Wakenya wote wanaomboleza. Pia vile vile tumeona katika hizo harakati, Serikali imeungana pamoja na watu wote wa Kisii kuona ya kwamba kumekuwa na usaidizi wa kutosha kupeleka watoto hao katika shule. Tumesikia na tumeona kwa televisheni kwamba watoto ambao wameumia zaidi wameletwa hospitalini. Tunawaombea Mwenyezi Mungu ili wale ambao wako hai waweze kuepuka hasara hiyo. Wale wazazi ambao waliathirika na vifo hivyo tunawapa pole sana na tunaomba ya kwamba Mwenyezi Mungu aweze kuweka roho zao pahali pema peponi. Bi Spika wa Muda, la mwisho ni kwamba ni jambo la kusikitisha kuona kwamba mara nyingi hata sisi wenyewe tukiwa katika hali ya usafiri usiku tunashindana na mabasi ambayo yamejaa wanafunzi. Hii ni usiku wa maanane. Ile basi ya wanafunzi huwa inaendeshwa kwa hali ambayo,sio ya uangalifu. Tunataka, ikiwa itawezekana kuwe na hatua ambayo itazuia mabasi ambayo yamebeba watoto wa shule kutembea baada ya saa The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
We have one minute. Sen. Elachi, can you give your condolences in one minute?
Asante, Bi. Spika wa Muda. Ningependa kujiunga na wenzangu kutuma rambi rambi zangu kwa niaba pia ya akina mama, ndugu zangu kule Kisii na pia kwa niaba ya Serikali. Ningependa kushukuru Serikali na ninajua kwamba itaendelea kusaidia kama ilivyofanya jana. Jambo la muhimu ni kujiuliza ni kwa nini wakati mwingi sisi huwa tunasahau kwa haraka maswala kama haya yanapofanyika. Ukikumbuka watoto wa Loreto ambao walikuwa wanatoka kule Meru na wakapata ajali, ilibidi wengine wao wafanye mtihani bila mikono na mpaka wa leo ni walemavu. Tunajua kwamba watoto hawa watakuwa walemavu na tunajua kwamba hatuna vile tutaendelea kuwasaidia wanapougua.
Your time is up.
Asante, Bi. Spika wa Muda. Ningependa kuambia watu wa Kisii kwamba tuko pamoja nao.
Hon. Senators, it is very sad indeed to lose such young children because the future of our nation depends on them. On my own behalf and on behalf of the people of Nairobi County and entire Speaker’s Panel, I also condole with the families.
Hon. Senators, it now time for interruption of business. The House stands adjourned until Tuesday, 16th July, 2013 at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.