Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Thursday, 4th December, 2014:- Science, Technology and Innovation Regulations 2014.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate today, Thursday, 4th December, 2014:- First Quarter National Budget Implementation Review Report for the for the Year 2014/2015 REPORT OF THE AUDITOR GENERAL ON THE FINANCIAL OPERATIONS OF THE COUNTY GOVERNMENT OF TURKANA Report of the Auditor General on the financial operations of the County Government of Turkana and its defunct local authorities for the period 1st January to 30th June 2013
The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
What is it Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I have heard the Senator for Kericho laying on the Table Papers concerning the audited accounts by the Auditor General. That is the function of our Committee, the Committee on County Public Accounts and Investments Committee, and he is not a Member of our Committee. Can we know what the clerk is up to; lest the people of this country think that we have been fired or have resigned?
I am doing it on behalf of the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget, Sen. Billow. They are signed by him and not me, the Senate Deputy Majority Leader. I am doing it on behalf of my colleague.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, audited accounts from the office of the Auditor General do not go to the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget.
These are specific; the county---
Order, Sen. Keter! Just because you have the microphone does not mean that you must respond. Let me have a look at the documents.
Ideally the two Papers; Report of the Auditor General on the Financial Operations of the County Government of Turkana and its defunct local authorities for the period 1st January to 30th June 2013 should have come from Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, while the Report of First Quarter National Budget Implementation Review Report for the Year 2014/2015, should have come from Sen. Billow. However, the Senator for Kericho was acting in his capacity as the Senate Deputy Majority Leader. REPORTS OF THE IMPLEMENTATION COMMITTEE ON ITS STUDY VISITS TO SPAIN AND FRANCE
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Further, on behalf of the Chairperson, Sessional Committee on Implementation, Sen. Orengo, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate today, Thursday, 4th December, 2014:- Reports of the Sessional Committee on Implementation on its study visits to the Kingdom of Spain, between 24th and 28th March, 2014 and France between 22nd and 26th September 2014.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Next order please.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to give feedback regarding a Statement that has been listed on the Order Paper today that was sought by Sen. Wetangula who is not in the House. I want to just give the feedback that we have received from the Ministry of Education, Science and Technology. They require time because they need to engage with other stake holders to get the answers. Therefore, they have requested that they will give us the feedback by Tuesday, 9th December, 2014. With your permission, when they give us that feedback then, we will be able to give it back to the House. CRITERIA USED FOR SELECTION OF CONSTITUENCIES FOR CONSTRUCTION OF TECHNICAL TRAINING INSTITUTES
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to respond to a Statement that had been sought by Sen. Kittony, who had requested to know the rationale that was used in the distribution of specific constituencies within which the construction of technical training institutes had been done. We have been able to receive feedback from the Ministry of Education, Science and Technology. They have given a rationale for the first 60 constituencies that they have picked; on the basis that they decided that, first of all, they will build in each of the constituencies, a technical training institute, which makes 47. Then, on priority basis and especially based on constituencies which were completely lacking in terms of having technical training institutes, they will give priority to those and that would make a total of 13. So, the 47 plus 13 would give a total of the 60 constituencies that they have selected for the building of the set of technical training institutes to begin with. They have also indicated that in the long run, it is going to be possible to have a technical training institute in each of the 290 constituencies within a five year period. So, as much as they are saying they have started with these 60 constituencies, they are prioritizing to ensure that in the long run, all the 290 constituencies have technical training institutes. They have estimated that each project will cost about Kshs50 The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It has been a long wait but at last, I am happy that the response is here with us. I am happy to note that all the constituencies of Kenya are represented in this. However, I will look for other questions because I think there are quite a number of other issues that relate to the finances and so on. I am grateful for the response.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise on a different issue. May I proceed?
Yes, please, proceed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, you had made an order that---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I thought that you were going to give us a few more chances to interrogate that Statement before we go to a different matter.
Order Sen. Khalwale! The owner of the Statement is very pleased. So, let us proceed. INVASION OF ELEPHANTS IN MAKUENI COUNTY
Mr. Speaker, Sir, last week, you made an order that the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget, chaired by Sen. Billow, answers a question about the invasion of Jumbos otherwise known as elephants in the County of Makueni. We have a crisis. One person is dead and we are worried. The Statement is not listed and I thought that I should raise it.
Yesterday, there was grave concern regarding the Statements that are yet to be responded to. We mandated the Senate Deputy Majority Leader, in the absence of the Senate Majority Leader, to go wherever he needs to go and come with a response. So, at this stage, I should maybe invite Sen. Keter to give us an update.
Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir. Pursuant to your ruling yesterday, Sen Kindiki, the Senate Majority Leader and I, had a meeting with the Executive on the way forward. We had a list of about 63 Statements some of which have been answered, others which are in the pipeline and others are still within the respective Ministries. We came out with a way forward that because it was late at night, with 63 Statements and we could not ascertain which ones, the Executive gave us an assurance that from today henceforth they would abide by that ruling. I will seek your indulgence. Since it was late at night, by next week Tuesday, there will not be any pending Statements. Unless otherwise, the one which, my colleague, Sen. Mutula Jnr. is asking, I personally talked to the Cabinet Secretary (CS) of the Ministry of Environment, Water and Natural Resources, Prof. Judith Wakhungu, this morning. She said that they had The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I take this opportunity to congratulate Sen. Keter for the efforts that they have made. However, I want him to confirm that, indeed, they talked to the other Ministers including the Attorney-General. As the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, we have had challenges getting responses from the Attorney- General. Some of the Statements that we sought almost six months ago are still pending up to now. The same office has the habit of directing us to other offices. You seek a Statement from the Attorney-General’s Office and they direct you to a commission or the Director of Public Prosecution’s (DPP) office. Therefore, we have had challenges dealing with that particular office. Could he confirm that he actually reached out to the Attorney- General?
Do I take these interventions, Mr. Deputy Majority Leader? Sen. Ndiema, if you have a Statement, direct it to the Deputy Majority Leader. Yes, Sen. (Dr.) Zani, for the Deputy Majority Leader.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On behalf of the Chairman, Committee on Education, I would like to respond to a Statement that had been sought by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale---
Order! Order! Just assume your seat. You must have been very busy where you were seated. Sen. Keter, you may respond to Sen. Sang.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, indeed, in our meeting, the Attorney-General was also present and all the Ministries ---
Order, Chair. If there are Statements you wish to respond to, I need to clear them before you contribute now.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to assure this House that all the Statements from various Ministries and the Attorney-General’s Office will be responded to without any delay. I give that assurance.
Sen. (Dr.) Zani, how many Statements do you have? Sen Hargura, I am also seeing you indicating? Sen. Hargura will take the first shot.
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I sought a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Energy and he promised to issue it today.
I guess we will assume your Statement will fall under the fate that has been described to be available next. STATUS OF THE RECRUITMENT AND DISTRIBUTION OF TEACHERS BY THE TSC
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I have a Statement that is ready to be given to Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. He had requested to know about the recruitment and distribution of teachers by the TSC. We have information from the TSC that gives a breakdown of the recruitment of additional teachers and recruitment of replacement The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Yesterday, we said the Committee on Education had a lot of pending Statements. That confirms, at least, the Senate Majority Leader and his deputy have done their home work.
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like you to indulge me so that you give me an opportunity to interrogate that big document showing how teachers were spread during the recruitment and replacement. I also request to make further clarification next week.
It is so granted.
We are still under Statements.
Mr. Speaker Sir, I want to give a Statement.
Proceed. CLOSURE OF NCPB SILOS IN UASIN GISHU AND MIGORI COUNTIES
This is on a Statement sought by the Senator for Uasin Gishu, Sen. Melly. He had requested for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries, regarding the closure of the National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB) silos in Uasin Gishu. In the Statement, the Senator sought to know when the NCPB silos will be opened to allow farmers to deliver and sell their maize to the Board. Secondly, he wanted to know the prices at which the Board will purchase the produce from farmers. Before I read the Statement, this is also a matter of concern for the Sen. of Trans- Nzoia, yours truly. The response is as follows: With regard to when the NCPB silos will be opened to allow maize farmers to deliver and sell their maize to the NCPB, the Government is currently preparing for maize purchases from farmers. To facilitate this, maize transfer in depots and silos within the major maize growing regions have to be undertaken. This will decongest the silos and depots and create room for new purchases. The targeted transfers are as follows:- 1. 480,200 bags from Moi’s Bridge, Eldoret and Kitale; 2. 459,250 bags in other cereals board depots; and other preparations are ongoing. 3. Purchasing bags for re-bagging maize in the silos. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
What is it, Sen. Keter?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, those are just concerns of the Committee ---
Order! Order, Sen. Ndiema!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thought my colleague, Sen. Ndiema, was responding to a question. However, he seems to also be asking questions and engaging himself in a debate.
So, I am wondering. He was supposed to respond and all of a sudden, he is also asking a lot of questions.
) We are lost on what to ask---
Sen. Keter, you cannot engage in a debate by yourself. You are the one who was trying to engage Sen. Ndiema. However, on the aspect of the Chairman asking more questions than the answers, there is a concern there.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Statement I have read is from the Ministry concerned. There is a Committee also of this House which has to give additional information. I believe that perhaps you will guide the House. Would I be in order also to give the views of Committee because this is the concern of the Committee? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
You may wish to recall that the Chairman had already declared his interest in the matter. So, I am not sure whether it is now the Committee making those additional remarks or they are his own. Yes, Sen. Melly.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Regarding the answer to the question as to when the NCPB silos will be opened and the prices that farmers will sale their maize, as I said last time, this issue was urgent because of the rains in these areas. I feel that the Chairman of the Committee should still seek further answers. Regarding the second question on how much a bag of maize would cost, even if we had these depots that are storing maize temporarily, they are not enough. As we talk today, almost half of the maize has been destroyed by rains. You know about the losses. These counties depend on maize for their livelihoods. It is their source of living and the earlier we address this issue, the better for our farmers. They depend on maize farming to improve and develop their economic lives. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise on a point of order. The Statement sought two things. One; when will farmers start selling their maize to the NCPB? The Chairman has not told us when they will start selling maize to the Board. Secondly; when they start selling maize to the Board, what will be the price? In my view, the Chairman, therefore, has not answered the question. We should request him to g o back and bring an answer. This is because we have information that some mandarins in Government have imported cheap maize from Uganda. They now want to frustrate local farmers in Lugari, Uasin Gishu, Bungoma and Trans-Nzoia, so that their maize can rot and then they sell their own. Could he go back and bring us a proper answer?
You know that when you seek a point of order, you use the intervention. I can see your name but you have also verbalised it. Yes, Sen. (Dr) Machage.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, when Sen. Melly asked this questions, I also raised an addendum on the same and sought information on the situation of maize piled in the stores of Migori County. For more than three seasons, the stores are excessively full and maize has not been transferred. It is reliably stored there by the Department of Special Programmes. I enquired when this maize was going to be removed from the stores to create space for farmers to put their maize. I have not had a response on that. Would I also be in order to request that the Chairman goes back and seeks for answers to the questions we asked?
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to echo what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has said; that listening to the Chairman of this Committee, it is clear that even he, himself, is not convinced by the answer that the Committee received. So, it is prudent that they go and get us specific answers to those specific questions. An additional question would be; what is the cost of the farmers to have their maize right now in those temporary silos? We know that some of those temporary silos The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Yes, Sen. Gwendo.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, mine is with regard to a different Statement, not this one.
Okay. Sen. Sang.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is really unfortunate that despite the Chairman of the Committee indicating to us very clearly that he has an interest in this matter, he went ahead to release a Statement that does not address the two key issues that were raised. In his response, we get the indication that the Government is unable to buy the grains from our farmers because the silos are full. Some parts of this country have experienced shortage of food, especially the northern part of this country. Is the Government telling us that they are unable to release some of these grains that are in our silos to some of these areas that are experiencing hunger to ensure that the silos are available for uptake of the maize?
Order, Sen. Sang. You are making a submission. You are supposed to be brief.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am just about to finalise. The other issue that I was hoping the Chairman would address is: The Government buys maize from farmers in 90- Kg bags. The standard bag for any other commodity is 50-Kg. Moving forward, can the Government give a commitment that they will be shifting from a 90-Kg bag to a 50-Kg bag to ensure that our farmers are able to reap from the sweat and the toil in their farms?
Finally and very briefly, Sen. (Prof.) Lesan.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have raised this issue in the House before, that the South Rift had a serious problem with the Lethal Maize Disease. At the moment, the National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB) storage facilities in the South Rift in Kericho and Bomet counties are actually empty. Perhaps these are issues which the Chairman may probably respond to and see whether these facilities can be used. Secondly, there is also need to streamline the business of buying and selling maize which is at the moment being conducted haphazardly by small traders who are inflating the prices for the people in the area. If the Government can transfer this food to these areas, constructive trade in maize can be carried out easily and, finally, we should have definite prices for the maize.
Sen. Ndiema, my directive would be, do not respond to anything. You have heard the Members. Food security is a major issue. Get back to the Cabinet Secretary because you also have concerns, as a Committee, so that you get this matter addressed comprehensively. Sen. Ndiema, you look surprised.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand guided. This is because of the issue of time.
I have directed that you deal with the issue. I also would like the Majority Leader to assist you. This is a serious matter about food security in the Republic of Kenya. It must be given its priority basis. That matter must be resolved next week. The Majority Leader is listening and he is nodding in affirmation. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Indeed, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have resumed my position with thanks to the Deputy Majority Leader who did a good job between yesterday and today. I had even handed over the limousine. Let me proceed to give the Statement. BUSINESS FOR THE WEEK COMMENCING TUESDAY, 9TH DECEMBER, 2014
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.45, this is to present the business for the coming week. As Senators will note in the Order Paper at Order No.14, I will be moving a Motion of Adjournment of the Senate in accordance with Standing Order No.28(3) and as per the Senate Calendar, for the House to adjourn until commencement of the Third Regular Session on the second Tuesday of February, 2015, as provided by Standing Order No.27. I take this opportunity to thank and sincerely commend all Senators for their diligence and commitment to the performance of the constitutional mandate of the Senate particularly as the guardian angels of devolution in Kenya that culminated in the passage of 11 Bills, 68 Motions and presentation of 8 petitions and 104 Statements relating to various issues that affect our counties and our country.
Hon. Senators, as you are aware, the Senate is faced with various challenges particularly around facilitation of Senators to effectively perform their constitutional functions as leaders in their respective counties. It is also clear that we, as Senators, are facing tremendous challenges in terms of the smooth operation of our legislative mandate. That notwithstanding, I am happy to report that the Senate leadership is constantly engaging the relevant arms of Government, constitutional organs and agencies to ensure that the mandate of the Senate is not hindered by any person or institution and to ensure that we deliver to the people of Kenya, our counties and ourselves. Just this morning, there was a very successful breakfast meeting between the Senate leadership and the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC). We have received positive assurances. The Speaker and his brother Speaker from the National Assembly, the Senate Minority Leader, Commissioner Musila, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., Sen. Sang, Sen. Murkomen and other colleagues were present during that breakfast meeting. We are convinced, beyond para adventure that if we can build on the spirit of that meeting, and it is possible to do so, when we resume early next year, we will have a better environment to operate from because nobody is interested in fighting other institutions or colleagues in the other House. We have no interest in fighting anybody. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Senators. We have enough numbers for voting. I would really encourage that we remain in the House. Proceed, Majority Leader.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am about to finish so that we do not interfere with numbers. I was just thanking those who attended today’s leadership meeting between the leadership of the Senate and the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC). I was saying I was very happy to see the spirit of consultation and some of the discussions that went on this morning can help us resolve some of the issues that have been bedeviling this House for a long time and help us build synergies and relationships with the National Assembly and other institutions of governance. I hope, therefore, as we come back next year, we will have an environment that is better than we have had. Having said that, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to take this opportunity to wish the Senators well and a Merry Christmas and a prosperous 2015. I also wish my fellow Kenyans happy holidays and a prosperous 2015. In spite of the national challenges that we are facing, Kenya is still a beautiful country. We want to rededicate and recommit ourselves to love, protect, nurture and defend our nation. I will now lay the Statement on the Table of the House.
Hon. Members, because we have the numbers for voting, we will move to Item No.10 on the Order Paper. That Bill is just for the Mover to reply, if he can do it very briefly and then we move to the Committee of the Whole, then we can proceed with the rest of the business. We are at Order No.10 now.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am here to reply. I will take not more than two minutes because, again, we do not want to interfere with the numbers we have. I have followed the debate and generally---
What is wrong? The idea of regulating the fertilizer sector is not in dispute. The idea of creating incentives and compelling the Government to come up with a programme that supports farmers to access affordable fertiliser is not in question. However, I must point out one major issue that I have observed especially in yesterday’s session of debate. The idea of creating a new board when we are streamlining the number of parastatals is something that many of those who spoke had an issue with. My appeal is, let us not throw out the baby with the bath water. If the major problem is the formation of yet another bureaucratic entity, it is possible to proceed with this Bill, remove the issue of establishing a board and the policy guidelines that we want to turn into legislation can actually be pursued through a department or directorate of the State Ministry for Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries. If the idea is about multiplicity of institutions, and I agree we have too many institutions, it is possible to turn the policy details of this legislation into legislative directives to be carried out by a directorate or department of the Ministry of Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries, so that we do not create another body. Mr. Speaker, Sir, having said that, I now beg to move that the Fertilisers and Animal Foodstuffs (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.36 of 2013 be read a second time.
Order, Senators. I will ask the Clerk-at-the-Table to read out the Order and then I will get the Majority Leader just to say “I beg to move” We skipped that step.
Order, Majority Leader. You did not use the microphone.
You are not on HANSARD.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move.
Hon. Senators, I, therefore, wish to put the question that the Fertilisers and Animal Foodstuffs (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.36 of 2013) be read a second time. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order! Order! Close the door and draw the Bar.
Order Senators! The results of the Division are as follows:-
Next Order! The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order! Order, hon. Senators! We are now in the Committee of the Whole to consider The National Police Service (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.29 of 2014).
Order! Order, Members! We need the numbers. We will not waste any time. In not more than ten minutes, we will have voted again. I hope that you can see a Supplementary Order Paper on your table. It has two amendments.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 2:- of the Bill be amended- (a) “by deleting paragraph (a) and substituting therefor the following new paragraph- (b) by deleting subsection (1) and substituting therefor the following new subsection- (1) The National Police Reserve (hereinafter referred to as “the Reserve”) shall consist of such persons resident in Kenya (other than serving members of the Kenya disciplined services) who shall – (a) be at least thirty years and not more than sixty years of age; (b) be persons of good conduct and have no criminal record; (c) be medically and physically fit; and (d) have the ability to read and write. (c) by deleting paragraph (b); (d) by deleting paragraph (c); and (e) by deleting paragraph (d).” The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Chairman. What are you reading now? Or are you explaining?
I am explaining.
By deleting paragraph (d), the rationale for deleting is, this amendment same as the earlier proposed amendment seeks to delete the proposal, which has already been incorporated at section 41(c) of the National Police Service (Amendment) Act, 2014 which was assented to on 26th June, 2014. Should I continue with Clause 3 or we dispose this amendment?
No, Chairman, we are only dealing with Clause 2 now. We will come to Clause 3.
Order, Sen. Hargura. Wait!
Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, the amendment which you have proposed to Clause 2, some of them may not be possible to meet like saying that a police reservist should be able to read and write. These are people who work within communities who are illiterate; 80 per cent illiteracy levels. They are actually taking this responsibility for their own security. Most of them have not gone to school, they are just herdsmen. So, this clause will not apply. So, we are putting in a law which will not be implementable on the ground. Even the age of 30 years age, may be---. Initially it said age 18 years; 18 years of age might be on the lower side. Maybe from 25 years of age onwards would be more appropriate because we know their age. Most of those herdsmen are young men. In fact, we normally have some age-set system, whereby, once you marry, you kind of leave that service of taking care of the community, security-wise. I would like it to be from 25 years of age because from 30 years, that would be a bit late. The reading and writing requirements should be removed because we will not be able to implement that law. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Sen. Bule. Why are you standing? Can you ask your neighbor how to go about it?
. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir. I think what is intended to do, is to really ensure that members of the public participate in security. Putting so many requirements, as if again we are recruiting another police force, is not necessary because those who are now there doing it, some of them are even beyond 50 years of age. I believe Patrick Shaw was not so young. He continued being a police reservist. So, the issue of age and qualification in terms of education should not be brought in. It should be dropped; it should be just somebody who is physically able. Some of them may not even be physically able but they are able to gather a lot of intelligence. So, let this recruitment be left to the discretion of those who will recruit them. Some of them may be disabled but they are very useful.
Chairman, you will wait so that you react to all of them.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, on the same lines, I think the importance of this amendment is to look at the working structure as it is right now. I do not think it is something totally new. We have the police reservists in some of our counties. We understand, just as Sen. Hargura has said, that we know how it works. We know that the majority of the people who have offered themselves to work for the community and to protect the communities or to deal with the security of the communities, most of them do not know how to read and write. Probably, those who know how to read and write will go and look for other jobs and not necessarily do the work of a reservist. So, this whole issue of having the ability to read and write, I want to echo that it is something we need to look at. Probably, it should not be there. Even putting the limit of 60 years of age, there are people who are 60 years of age and they are doing the reservist work even now. So, what are we saying; that they go on retirement when they are the people who understand the whole terrain? The age issue and the ability to read and write is something that we need to re-look at. I would propose that it actually be deleted and done away with.
Sen. Bule, listen, Order! You need to talk to Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., to tell you how to go about it. You need your card to be on. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. will assist you. I see there is a lot of interest in this matter. I will give you two minutes at most.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir. I want to share and express my views as regards one specific item here which is the ability to read and write. We should not remove this requirement because of the very nature of how things are going on at the moment. We should not delete the requirement for reading and writing because the times are not static. We should include this as some of these people who are The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, my understanding of the objective of this Bill is that we are giving them some recognition. They are going to be benefitting out of public funds. While I may appreciate the need to remove the age requirement, I do not understand why we should remove a basic requirement that the person should be of good conduct and have no criminal record. Why do you want to remove something like that? The man should be medically and physically fit. What kind of people are we envisaging? I would like some explanation on that.
From whom? The issues that you are contesting were raised by your colleagues opposing the Bill. It is not part of the Bill.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, if I understood the spirit of this amendment sought by Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo in so far as this is concerned, the purpose was to ensure that the persons who are recruited are not volunteers. Then the persons recruited will be trained by the National Police Service. The persons who will be recruited will also be given uniform and facilitated. Most importantly, these persons will be given a salary. Therefore, to insert a clause that they should be at least 30 years and not more than 60 years, this would be the first clause I have seen in recruitment law that proposes to set an age bracket. First and foremost, we will be violating employment laws and we will be creating discrimination. There are people in this country who are 18 years old and would qualify for this. If this Senate would make an amendment proposing that they should be at least 30 years, we would be violating our own standards. Therefore, I am concerned that this would in itself be discrimination of people below the age of 18 years. From the standards proposed in the Bill in terms of training, the question of age would not limit anything because these people would be trained and through that, they could sieve people who are competent to work as police reservists. Regarding the ability to read and write, the requirement for recruitment of the police, the army and any other disciplined force is not reading or writing. It is either you have a Kenya Certificate of Primary Education (KCPE) or a Kenya Certificate of Secondary Education (KSCE). When you suggest that they should be able to read and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Your time is over.
I oppose the requirement on the ability of the reservists to read and write.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, the issue of security in Kenya is very paramount and it needs a lot of consideration. What we are discussing concerns police reservists who are locals. These people are supposed to deal with terrorists, bandits and criminals. Therefore, the issue of age is not applicable here. We have elders and youth who are illiterate but can do a good job. The issue of education cannot hinder security operations. We have employed men and women who are educated but they just go to class---
Sen. Bule, you are opposed to the issue of limiting education and age?
Yes, because if you do that, you are eliminating some of us from getting this opportunity. Therefore, we still need a further amendment on this.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, Sen. Haji has wide experience on administration and matters of security. Hence the move to amend was informed. The limit on age maybe dropped because we have youth who are patriotic enough and want to serve and we have 60 year olds who look like 35 year olds. There are people who do not express their ages in appearance and they are ready to serve. So, we should drop that requirement. The issue of education should be left the way it is because the amendment does not qualify what type of ability to read and write should be considered. The ability to read and write is a relative term and the word education does not mean necessarily you went to school. You may be illiterate but you know how to read a watch or a mobile phone. I do not think it should be removed. This person should be able to make a call which means he can read his telephone set. I do not think part (d) makes a lot of change to warrant being concerned about the ability to read. He has not said that he must be of primary school standard. It just says ability to read and write. The ability to read a telephone or ability to read a watch is also an ability to read. Therefore, I do not think it should be dropped. Let us consider dropping the amendment on the issue of age.
If we listen to Sen. Haji, there will be no need to debate further because of what he has already explained to me. Proceed.
Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I am ready to withdraw the Clause 1(a) which deals with age.
Sen. Haji, for the record, could you read Clause 1(a)?
It says “at least 30 years and not more than 60 years old” I will leave it to be “at least 18 years and not more than 60 years”.
If you drop the amendment, let it be all of it. Drop the whole section.
Then I drop the whole of it. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. Anyang’-Nyong’o, I can see you want to talk again. Is it a point of order?
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, is it wrong to change your mind midway? You may have supported a Bill but at a certain stage, you become inspired and you change your mind.
Order, Sen. Sang. You can change your mind but at an opportune time. At this point, we are in the Committee discussing Clause 2. What is it, Sen. Anyang’-Nyong’o?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. I do not think that Sen. Murungi is correct. In fact, you can, by using one of the clauses bring down the whole damn thing; definitely.
Order, Sen. Anyang’-Nyong’o. That is not parliamentary language. We are not discussing the “damn thing” but a Bill.
I am sorry, I withdraw that. Let me say the following. It is not in order to say that I am out of order. I think I am quite correct to oppose the Bill noting the kind of qualities that the Bill has in particular clauses and if amended, makes it a nullity.
I am assuming that you are opposing Clause 2. Until the time we are discussing the whole Bill, the correct assumption is that you are referring to Clause 2.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I think professor is quite out of order because---
I have already ruled him out of order. We have settled that matter.
I just wanted to say, although I was in the Opposition at that time, NARC never withdrew homeguards. They are still there even now.
I heard professor very well; he said he was not sure. He thought that if we can take matters of public notoriety into account, we know that Waiganjo was there until the other day. So, I think you are right, Sen. Haji. Before we come to Sen. G.G. Kariuki, it was Sen. Okong’o who was on the Floor.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, my concern was on part (b) which talks about training. The essence of passing this Bill is to give the reservists sufficient basic training but if you delete that part, you are defeating the purpose. These reservists are supposed to be trained, given uniform and firearms.
Sen. Okong’o, we are no longer there. Part (b) was not supposed to be deleted.
It is indicated here.
Which (b)? There are two (bs). You should be specific. Just go there and read for us which (b) you are talking about.
Well guided. There is part (b) which is saying:- “by inserting the following new sub-section immediately after sub-section (ii)” It further says:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
I was saying that if we delete that, then we are killing the main purpose of the Bill. If these people cannot be trained, be given uniforms and firearms, then there is no purpose for the Bill.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I think there is some confusion here. First, I want us to appreciate the role that the reservists have already played because they are there and they are playing a good role. However, on matters of education, we are trying to improve the service. If we say that anybody can become a reservist and then we have to train them, how do we train people who cannot read and write? I am suggesting that the issue of education be left at “read and write” because it is important that when we train them, they follow the training. Secondly, I want to follow Sen. Okong’o’s argument. The idea was to improve the service by training and providing uniforms. Therefore, if this has to be deleted, then I think there is a mistake which you must address. We cannot improve the service by letting it go the way it is. We want to improve it by making sure they are literate, trained, provided with proper firearms and supervised but we cannot do that if this clause is not there.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, we are making a small job appear to be a big issue. The Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations had all the time to debate this issue in the morning. We agreed, as proposed by the Chairperson, that the discussions do not stop the House to decide on the contrary. The important thing is that as hon. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o said, he made some remarks because of the environment that he comes from. These are very important issues to some people. There are areas where you cannot find policemen or policewomen. I was under the impression, as usual, that the Third Reading did not require us to debate the entire Bill. The Third Reading requires us to make some observations on the Bill which have already been agreed upon at the Second Reading. If there are any amendments, these can also be stated. I am talking about education and this is a very complicated issue. When our policemen and policewomen joined the police force, many things started going down. There are many people who decided to become soldiers from a very early age. Those people are not dictated by their status of education but the way they perceive their work. The issue of education is important. At the same time, we should not restrict this to persons of Form Four onwards. So, unless there are amendments being proposed, I propose that since we had said 30 years and above, the idea of homeguards is the best since they are the ones who understand an area. These people are not looking out to become chief inspectors or colonels because they will not be transferred anyway. These are people who are there to defend their parents or their people when the uniformed police are not around. It is important that we do not do away with the issue of age.
Sen. G.G. Kariuki that issue has already been dispensed with. The Chairman has already withdrawn. Therefore, it is not an issue of debate. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to speak on the same issue of committees. I want to say something very briefly. It is unfortunate that Sen. (Prof.) Lesan is not here. One of the problems we are experiencing in the ASAL areas where reservists play a key role is that most young men who are causing havoc right now have no ability to read or right. However, if we recruit them and make them more useful to serve their country, this may deal with the menace we are trying to solve right now. Therefore, I think this is in order. We should absorb as many as possible. They should be useful to this country and not the reverse. When we say that we only need people who can read and write from those areas, how do we deal with those who do not know how to read and write? That is precisely why there is a menace in this country.
Thank you. The only thing guiding the House is that the Chairperson had already explained that reading and writing is climbing down from the initial requirement of “O” Level. Reading and writing are the basic minimum requirement. You could be reading one sentence and probably can only write numbers from one to ten. That ambiguity was left. The issue remained at the discretion of the recruiting officers to determine what level is required.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you are absolutely right. You will agree with us. The purpose of these homeguards in the reserve is to have people who are capable of defending their families, properties and neighbourhoods. These are also people who can communicate with them very well. In view of the issues raised by the Senator from Nyamira, I want to withdraw part “b” and “c” which is very important.
You have to read for the record so that the HANSARD can capture it. What does it say? You need to read what you are withdrawing. I am assuming that you are withdrawing the part that says; by deleting paragraph “b” and “c”. Are you withdrawing the two?
Absolutely, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir.
There being no other contributions, I will put a question at the end.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 3 of the Bill be deleted. The rationale is that this amendment is as earlier proposed. It seeks to delete the proposal which has already been incorporated at Section 47 of the National Police Service (Amendment) Act which was assented to on 26th June, 2014.
For the benefit of Senators, what does it say? The Chairman is saying that there was an amendment that provided for payments. Mr. Chairman, could you approach my desk? For the benefit of the Members, you will read the relevant sections that you are referring to. For Members who are following this, it is important for you to follow keenly what the Chairman is going to present. Proceed Chairman. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I am looking for Section 47 (c). This Section sets new --- Without prejudice to Section 2, police reserve officers shall be paid such remuneration and allowances as the Commission shall, in consultation with the Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SRC) determine. I said delete but I am now reinstating it.
Thank you, Chairman. My understanding, for the benefit of those who are following is that, somehow an amendment to this Bill which was in the National Assembly almost crossed each other probably at the end of June 2014 while this one was introduced on 2nd July, 2014 where there is a similar clause which has been read by the Chairman which already provides for remuneration of reservists. That is why they are deleting it because it is superfluous. The Chairman has already read Section 47 which says that without prejudice to that one:- “A reserved police officer shall be paid such remuneration and allowances as the Commission shall in consultation with the Salaries and Remuneration Commission determine.” That was already placed. That is why it has been deleted. Therefore, since it has been done away with, there is no debate about it.
I will put the Question at the end as well.
Since there are no amendments, we will also put the question once we determine that we have the necessary numbers to proceed. Hon. Senators we will now go to Division. We will ring the Division Bell for five minutes before I put the question so that we put the question for Clauses 2, 3, 4, the Title and Clause 1. That is why we will ring the Division Bell for five minutes before I put the question.
Whip, do we have the numbers? We do not have the numbers. Sen. Haji!
Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I beg to move that the Committee of the Whole on the National Police Service (Amendment) Bill, (Senate Bill No.29 of 2014) do report progress and seek leave to sit again tomorrow.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I can see a request for a point of order by the Senate Majority Leader.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not know whether it is appropriate. My point of order is to do with the Order Paper. I was assuming that we had finished this Order.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You are completely out of order; we have not finished. Have a seat.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Much obliged, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Chairman!
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered the National Police Service (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.29 of 2014) and has instructed me to report progress and seek leave to sit again tomorrow.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, sir, I rise on Standing Order No.39 to request the Chair if it is in order to direct that we dispense with Order No.8, the reason being that it is a very short Motion that is not controversial and I do not intend to take more than two minutes so that the other items on The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well! I order that we move to Order No. 8.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
(Sen. (Dr) Machage)
(Sen. (Prof) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, pursuant to Standing Order Nos. 177 (1) and 178, the Senate approves the nomination by the Rules and Business Committee of- a) Sen. G.G. Kariuki to the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget; b) Sen. Ben Njoroge to the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare to replace Sen. G.G. Kariuki; and, c) Sen. Hosea Onchwangi to the Sessional Committee on Implementation to replace Sen. Ben Njoroge. This Motion does two things: One, to acknowledge that, initially, the Jubilee side had nominated Sen. G.G Kariuki to sit in the Labour and Social Welfare Committee. Sen. G.G Kariuki did not take up that position because he wanted to serve in the Finance, Commerce and Budget Committee. By the time his decision not to serve that Committee was reached, we had already approved the Motion on committees. This Motion, therefore, is to allow Sen. G.G Kariuki to serve in the Finance, Commerce and Budget Committee, in which case he will be replaced in the Labour and Social Welfare Committee, as proposed in this Motion, by Sen. Njoroge. Finally, to create a balance, now that Sen. Njoroge will be in the Finance, Commerce and Budget Committee, we have decided, as the Jubilee side, that Sen. Njoroge relinquishes his position in the Committee on Implementation. We have added Sen. Hosea Onchwangi, who is not in this House.
Who is Sen. Hosea Ochwangi?
I am being asked who Sen. Hosea Onchwangi. He is the Nominated Senator for the majority side. We discovered that he is serving in only one Committee. When I interrogated him, he said that part of the reason why he does not feel very accommodated is because, unlike other Senators, he is the only Senator who is serving in one Committee. We are recommending Sen. Onchwangi to this Committee.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is it, Sen. Haji? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Is the Senate Majority Leader in order to say that he is the only one, in one Committee? I am also in one Committee, so he is one amongst others.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well, he is completely out of order.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Maybe I should have said he is the only one in one Committee who has complained. I did not know that the Chairman of the National Security and Foreign Relations Committee is also in one Committee. Sen. Onchwangi assures me, and I am now delivering this to Hon. Senators, that he would like to serve in two or three committees, so that he feels accommodated. We see no reason why we should not give him that opportunity. So, without much ado ---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is it, Sen. Murkomen?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I often see Sen. G.G Kariuki seated here. Sen. Njoroge was seated here, he just walked out. Can the said Sen. Onchwangi also show some passion in terms of wanting to join that Committee by even being here when such an important Motion is being moved? Is he aware of this movement?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Murkomen, there is no rule that dictates that a Senator must be here when he is being recommended for a certain Committee. I rule you completely out of order. Continue, Majority Leader.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. So, because this is a straight forward matter, I beg to Move. I want to request the Deputy Minority Whip, Sen. Janet Ongera, to second.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I second this Motion. I think this is a fairly straight forward matter. The Senators who have been nominated are capable and fit to be in those committees. Therefore, I do not have much to say other than to second this Motion.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Let us move to the next order.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Ladies and gentlemen, before I call for the next order, I would like to bring to your notice the following information. We have run out of time and we have an adjournment Motion. If we do not move and second the two Bills, they will die but if you will agree with my advice that I give an opportunity to move in a very short time and I will time it to not more than ten minutes, then, it is seconded by bowing, I propose the question, the House will own those Bills and they will not die. However, if you agree we do that, then, we will quickly move to the next two Motions, so that we have enough time for the important Motion of Adjournment which requires two hours and we are late.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Considering that Bills are our forte in this House - it is what we eat and breath - Am I in order to say that, although the adjournment Motion requires a maximum of two hours, that through your powers under Standing OrderNo.39, we reduce the adjournment Motion for an hour so as it starts at 5.30p.m? These are Bills and someone has prepared for a long time, we give the Mover at least 15 minutes each to submit, let them be seconded for five minutes because we are here because of Bills. Then, we shorten the adjournment. There is nothing much for us to say in terms of adjournment more than the Bills.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Yes, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki.
(Sen. (Prof) Kindiki): I rise on a further point of order to support the suggestion by the Senator for Elgeyo-Marakwet, the reason being, my understanding of the adjournment Motion under Standing Order 28 is that it should not take more than two hours. So, it can take a shorter time. Instead of taking a lot of time on an adjournment Motion, when we have Bills, I just wanted to support, if it is in order, for you to direct that we spend a little more time on the Bills.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well, you are in agreement with the proposals by Sen. Murkomen and supported by Sen. (Prof) Kithure Kindiki. I agree, the movers of the two Motions, please look at the time. I will not put the question to that because I do not want it to enter into the records. Next order!
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that The Potato Produce and Marketing Bill (Senate Bill No.22 of 2014) be now read a Second Time. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this Bill has taken a bit of time since it was filed. However, it is good that it has finally found its way on the agenda today.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): As you start, I want you to look at the clock.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will take 18 minutes. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): The suggestion was 15 minutes. I did not want this to be a contentious issue.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will determine what to leave out. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we produce in Kenya 1.8 million tonnes or thereabouts of potatoes as a crop and food item. If you compare it with maize, at 3.5 million tonnes – as per the statistics of 2012 – that places potatoes at number two staple food. Even if you compare it with other food crops like wheat, at 285,000 tonnes, and rice, at 146,000 tonnes, you will know that potatoes are very important. However, the current farming of potatoes is really discouraging to farmers. There are a lot of challenges. It would have been good to describe every one of them, but in the interest of time, I will mention them generally. Due to the perishable nature of potatoes, there are a lot of issues in it. The principal one is that the value chain time is only two or three days as compared to products like maize, which can be consumed even next year if it is harvested now. That perishable nature of potatoes poses a lot of challenges to the farmers. The Bill seeks to address most of these challenges. I would like to read the objects and purposes of this Bill as listed in Clause 3. It says:- (i) regulate production packaging, processing, marketing of potatoes and generally regulate the industry; (ii) promote the production and use by farmers of high quality seed potatoes; (iii) improve the production in terms of quality and quantity of potatoes in the country; and, (iv) improve efficiency of potato farming. There is also “induce self-regulation across the industry,” which the Committee on Agriculture had a quarrel with. I agreed that it be deleted when it comes to the amendments. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, much as the Bill has taken a bit of time, it has successfully gone through the various stages, more so, a very successful public hearing which attracted a lot of interest from potato farmers, potato farmers organizations, dealers and research people. More importantly, the Government itself did send a senior representative from the Ministry of Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries. The Committee has looked at quite a lot of issues raised during the public hearings, among them the Government’s suggestion that instead of the committee or board which we had suggested comprising 15 members, it should have nine members. The Committee has already tabled its Report which contains a number of amendments and I, as the sponsor, have agreed, in principle, to all of them. So, we are in concurrence. Due to the perishable nature of potatoes, there are few farmers or none that I am aware of who are really large-scale farmers. As a result, the farmers are prone to being played around with by all manner of middlemen. We start off with the farmland brokers, then we have the buyers and transporters. There are no standards as to the weighing of potatoes from farms. The brokers buy potatoes from farmers without them. They decide on a particular size of bag. The Government has attempted to put in place some weighing standards, but they have not been properly policed. Since there is no regulatory body at The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I hope you acknowledge the yellow light.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am just about to conclude. I have to shorten quite a lot of what I wanted to say. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order!
Sen. Murungi was lined up, but I can see there is somebody else.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Yes, Sen. Musila. He mentioned your name.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I stand to second this important Bill. It has taken over 50 years to come to this House. I want to congratulate Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki for coming up with such an important Bill. Potato is a very important food crop. If potato is farmed properly in this country, it has a potential of giving food security to the entire population of Kenya because some areas produce a lot of potatoes. A good example is Holland which has been mentioned here. However, lack of proper regulation and a body that looks after, advises farmers and even provides them with seed has made it impossible for this important crop to develop in this country. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, once upon a time, I was a farmer. I want to confirm what Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki has said. I lost a lot of money because I could not market my potatoes. I kept a mountain of potatoes waiting for buyers, but because potatoes are perishable, I incurred a lot of losses. From that day on, I said I would never farm potatoes because there is no way to regulate, provide market, grade potatoes or even provide proper seeds. You produce potatoes and put back the same potatoes to the soil. How do you expect a good crop? So, I want to appeal to the hon. Members to support this timely Bill. Mr. temporary Speaker, Sir, there is the issue of weight. When I was the Provincial Commissioner (PC) of Central Province, where potato crop is grown in abundance, I tried to plead with farmers not to increase the size of the bag. They used to put potatoes in a bag and then put sticks around it and put another half a bag. Definitely, this was not one bag. It was a bag and a half. The whole idea is to convince the buyer that this is the biggest quantity, therefore, they should buy it. Therefore, the answer here also lies with the farmers. If farmers had formed a co-operative society and insisted on the weight, then nobody would add another bag on top of the ordinary bag. I am sure we The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. From what we have heard when the Motion was being moved, there is a lot to say about this Bill. Therefore, to allow us to have more time to discuss it, I rise on Standing Order No.99, I now move that the debate be adjourned.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well, I have looked at Standing Order No.99 as raised by Sen. (Prof.) Lesan and I think it is because of the time constraints. I will now put the Question.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Natural Resources (Benefit Sharing) Bill (Senate Bill No. 34 of 2014) be read a Second Time. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you will recall that on 26th June, 2013, a Committee was put into place after a Motion was moved before this House regarding the issue of benefit sharing of natural resources. Having considered and knowing that each of the counties in this country have enormous natural resources, and given the fact that there is no system in place to ensure that there is an equitable share of those resources across both the county level and the community level, therefore, it is important to support this Bill. This Bill suggests that a possibility be put across so that we can find a format where communities and counties can actually get a very direct analysis and find a way to have the natural resources benefitting them. When the Motion came on the Floor, it had The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker. I would like to support this Bill. This is a Bill that I have a lot of passion for. This is mainly because the Mover of the Bill beat me by a week. I was about to move a similar Bill, but she went ahead of me. I was amazed that we had the same intentions and desires to make differences as far as natural resources are concerned. One of the things I wrote down in my manifesto, to the people of Elgeyo-Marakwet, was that this House should be part and parcel of a team that would pass a legislation to ensure that they benefit from natural resources. Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir, you, I, the Mover and other Senators were in Elgeyo- Marakwet and heard the sentiments of the people who are living within Fluorspar mines. For a long time in this country, we had natural resources coming to chase the local people. Most areas with natural resources turn out to be the poor areas. In most cases, people who live in such circumstances are deprived of land. I have a list of over 2,000 people who were removed from a Fluorspar area and given no compensation. They were told that natural resources are public resources and were chased away from their land. Up to now, they have no land. The other problem we have is the degradation of land or negative impact of exploitation of natural resources in areas like the ones with Fluorspar. The implications go to farmers and people who live in those areas. Many farmers have lost their livestock, for example, along Kerio Valley as a result of mining fluoride. This Bill is very personal to me. I believe that people in Turkana County where Tullow Oil Company is exploiting oil will benefit. In my county, Elgeyo-Marakwet and Baringo County, you will find that such legislative framework is key if we are to avert a situation where the locals feel left out. The problems we have in places like Kapedo are related to historical marginalization. This has made the people in those localities to feel that things are being The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. This is a very important Bill that has been moved and seconded. I believe that there are a lot of members who will want to contribute to it. However, to allow us to do it, we should schedule ourselves to have sufficient time to debate. Therefore, I rise under Standing Order No.99 and move that the Debate be adjourned on this Bill.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I have looked at Standing Order No.99 and will put the question.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. .Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, pursuant to Standing Order No.28 (3), the Senate do now adjourn until Tuesday, 10th February, 2015. Unlike in the past; the days when Parliament used to exist and function at the whims of the Executive arm of Government, those of us who are in this Parliament, are fortunate because we are serving and we are in this Parliament at a time when Parliament has control over its own destiny. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is in this context that earlier on as we began the second Session, that this Senate did consider and approve the calendar for the second Session. That calendar states that today we are supposed to adjourn and resume on February 2nd, 2015. We are adjourning as a matter of course. At the outset, I want to take this opportunity to thank colleague Senators for very hard work during the past one year. We have passed 11 Bills. Hopefully, when those Bills are assented to, this year will go on record as a much more productive year in terms of legislation than the first year, 2013. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to take this opportunity to thank all those individual Members of this House who have brought Private Members’ Bills and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order. Your time is up! Can you move?
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindire): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Who is seconding you?
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I request Sen. Ongoro to second.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I stand to second this Motion for Adjournment. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Mover has really deliberated on this exhaustively. Since the calendar of this Second Session was approved by this House, and nothing in the extreme has presented itself to force a change, it is in order that Senators get this much deserved break. Secondly, I support this Motion because Senators also require time to enable them touch base with issues affecting their various county members. It is true that we adjourn the Sittings of the House every Thursday evening and most Senators travel on Friday and come back on Monday. That is not sufficient time for those who travel. It takes some Senators even two or three days for them to get to their counties. So, they do not get enough time to interrogate issues in their counties. Considering that some counties are quite vast – Nairobi County, for example, has 17 constituencies – two-days break is not sufficient for you to even know what is happening in all corners of the county. So, we deserve this break so that we can really have quality time with the constituents in those counties. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is also true that from time to time, legislators need to interact with the end users. We have passed quite a few pieces of legislation in this House. Therefore, it is only in order that we spend time with the end users; the beneficiaries of our legislations, to evaluate the impact and consider amendments when we come back, if necessary. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Hon. Senators, as you know, this Motion gives you five minutes per individual to deliberate. It is also open-ended and I do not have to put the Question at the end of the Motion. It means, therefore, that we have exactly 35 minutes for us to discuss. It also means that seven Senators will have a chance to speak. But if we can make a saving, then all of us may be able to speak.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. Essentially, we passed this Motion when we passed the calendar of the Senate sometime back. We are just confirming what we decided when we passed our calendar. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we are going on recess when this country is burning. Insecurity is on the rise. The Senate has done the best that it could on the issue of containing the rising insecurity in the country. I am happy that the Senate approved a Motion that the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations and the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights jointly, during the recess, visit all the areas where there has been insecurity. They will hold hearings and bring a report to this House when we come back, so that we can find lasting solutions to the endemic insecurity in the country. Therefore, we are not going to sleep or rest. We will still be working even as we go on recess. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in my own Committee, which our Senate Majority Leader did not mention by name; the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries, we have done tremendous work, which has brought a lot of glory to the Senate. Soon after we were appointed, we held a high level meeting in Naivasha that brought together the Cabinet Secretary, Professors and all the institutions of agriculture, to review the policies. It is at Naivasha where we identified food security as the top priority for our Committee for the next three years. We have been very embarrassed in this country; that every year, people cry about famine in Turkana, Baringo and Marsabit. The time for talking is over. It is now time for us to act and remove this shame from our country. We shall need the support of the Senate even in the remaining years, so that we can achieve our dream of freedom from hunger in this country. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, when you see the yellow light, remember you only have one minute to go.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to speak on this Motion of Adjournment. We are adjourning according to the calendar that this House has already approved. My happiness is that progress is being made. In the first year, we were only debating Motions. However, this year, we have begun delving into legislation. As you heard, we have already passed legislations. It is my hope that next year, we shall even pass more. We have now begun receiving Bills from the “Lower House” for debate and enactment. My hope is that in the course of next year, we should pass many more Bills. My hope also is that with current constructive dialogue that we have engaged with the judiciary and with the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC), the number of issues pending concerning the welfare of Senators and our legislative work will now be looked into so that next year will be a good year. Personally, I did not know that our representatives in the PSC were working very hard. I want to tell them to continue the good effort and work on the good environment which I believe was created this morning. I hope that next year, we will begin with a bang on the various issues we discussed. We are going to adjourn, but committees will continue to work. My Committee will be having a retreat during this adjournment. The other day, we passed a very important Motion creating a joint committee to work on the issues of national security. That is a Motion that was brought to the Floor of the House by Sen. Billow. National security has become a major issue and we, as Parliamentarians, should be seen to be contributing positively to the creation of a country where there is security and peace. I hope that this joint Committee will move with speed to undertake the functions that were given to it to investigate and come up with recommendations on the various shortcomings that may have been there. It should also make recommendations on how we can improve, what legislation needs to be amended or be put in place and how we can The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I also want to add my voice to this Motion of Adjournment. We are adjourning at a very sad time in this nation on the issues of insecurity. This is something that we have deliberated on in this House. This is something that is getting out of hand, but my contribution would be that as we break, we should continue with the same messages that unite Kenyans at this very difficult time. We should not be part of those who divide this country in any manner either on ethnic lines or religious lines. We, as leaders of this respectable House, will continue to offer solutions and preach peace. For those of us who come from counties which have continued to experience this insecurity, we can use this time to go and talk to our young people so that they can see the purpose of peace and unity of this country. I know that a majority of us are committed and willing to preach peace. If we do not have peace, everything else that we have in this country is in vain. I believe that each one of us has a responsibility. Regarding the issue of Committees, there is a lot of work that we will continue to do. There is much more to do in the Committees. For example, as Sen. Ndiema said, the farmers are asking where to take their produce because the silos are full and there is a lot of rainfall. There are also some parts of this country where people are still hungry. I do hope that as we adjourn, some of the issues touching on the lives of Kenyans will be addressed at the Committee level. As Sen. Wako has said, there has been progress. During the first year, we were still trying to get our footing. However, that has changed and it can be seen with the number of Bills in the House.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Mugo, you have a point of order. What is it?
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity to contribute---
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! Are you on an intervention or a point of order. Can you press the other button so that I put you on the list? Proceed, Sen. Lesuuda. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was in the middle of saying that we have made progress as a House, looking at the number of Bills processed. Most importantly, we, as a House, have found a footing.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Mugo, you are still on the wrong button. Could you, please, press the right one? Save Sen. Lesuuda’s time.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I know that this is an issue that we have talked about in this House. This is something that we can proudly say was fruitful. We discussed our various mandates so as to be on the same page with regard to the institutions we have created. Each of these institutions has a mandate and must be respected. Although we have been experiencing challenges as we try to implement the Constitution, it is important that we, as leaders of various institutions, talk to each other and not necessarily at each other. We have seen the fruits of that. We hope that as we come back to it, we will have a much smoother time as we continue with our work and our mandate as the Senate. I would also like to thank the media for the support they have continued to give this House. We, as a Committee, need to see much more. As we go out to the counties to carry out our mandate, we hope that the media will go out of their way to highlight some of the issues that distinguished Senators will be doing at the county level during the break. Finally, to add on what the Senate Majority Leader said, as we continue to discuss, the Committee on Devolved Government and the Committee on Finance, Budget and Commerce had a meeting to discuss sharing of revenue. It is important for us, as a Senate, to continue to be vigilant on the management and use of these resources at the county level so that the aspirations of Kenyans who voted for this Constitution are achieved. One of the key things was devolution. We should continue to see to it that we keep our leaders accountable so that the lives of Kenyans are transformed.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. I join my colleagues in supporting the Motion. While the Senate Majority Leader was moving the Motion, he said that the Senate has done very well and has passed 11 Bills. My view is that we have not done very well. In today’s Order Paper, we are leaving five Bills undone. I do not understand why we could not complete these Bills so that we say that we had dealt with 16 Bills instead of 11. I hope that when we come back, we will operate in a more efficient manner and pass more Bills. It is a shame to leave Bills pending which would have benefited Kenyans. Having said, I want to applaud the leadership of the Senate. This week, we have made a lot of progress in networking with certain institutions such as the Judiciary, which we met on Monday and today, we have been consulting with the PSC. I want to confirm that the PSC is aware of the challenges facing the Senate in particular in terms of facilitation of Senators who have to cover big areas in form of their counties, but are not facilitated to move to those areas. Going by the discussions we had this morning with the PSC, Senators will see an improvement in the provision of facilities to allow them do their work more efficiently. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We have very few minutes. However, I thank you for allowing me these few minutes. First of all, I would like to thank the Leadership of the Senate because we have come from far. We had many problems before we got where we are. The current discourse between the two Houses is very commendable. That guarantees continuity and harmony of the two Houses. That is the only way we can serve our people effectively. Under the Constitution, the roles of the two Houses are well defined. I am very sure that the Senate is quite satisfied with what they have been given by the Constitution. I am sure that following that situation, we will go very far. Now that the dust has settled, there is no reason this House should not do more work than it has done. We have spent a lot of time, especially in the past two years, arguing among ourselves and asking who is bigger than the other. All this has been a waste of time. We are behaving as if we have not been in school to read the Constitution and understand it. Otherwise, we would not be talking the way we are. Some people have talked about the security of this country. It is true that we are leaving when insecurity is a big problem. The biggest question you should ask yourself is: Whether we sit here or not, will the system change? Has the tradition of our security operators changed? Unless a few things are done, regardless of the past, going by the new age of security equipment and personnel, things will not change even if we stay here for a The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to oppose this Motion. It saddens me that we would be talking about going for recess. Despite being alive to the fact that we have a calendar that we had all agreed to in the RBC, however, when we made this calendar which is almost a year ago, certain things have occurred in this country that necessitate us to stay a little bit longer before we can go for recess. We had about 39 Bills that we needed to have dealt with. Out of these Bills, we have only been able to deal with 11of them. Today you saw the undesirable manner in which we conducted Business. We did not even have enough Members to enable us pass the National Police Service (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.29 of 2014). It forced one of our distinguished Senators to adjourn debate on two very important Bills that we needed to deal with and, here we are now rushing to go for recess. It really saddens me that at a time when we are speaking about insecurity in this country, insecurity is so rampant. There are many incidents of banditry, terrorism, our women are being stripped left, right and centre, in the streets. We have not been able to resolve these issues. You noted that when we put a lot of pressure on the national Government, it is only the other day that we saw them making changes which I think were too little, too late. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have pending statements that we have raised, particularly about the welfare and the state of our maize farmers in the north Rift and other parts of this country. These statements have not been answered. As I speak, our famers’ maize is actually outside granaries. Some is even rotting because of the heavy rains in the north Rift. This is simply because they are not able to take their maize to the National Cereals Board (NCPB). We are told that some “fat cats” imported a lot of maize from Uganda and stored it in at the NCPB. It is a pity that we are going on recess without having resolved some of these issues. Even as we say that Senators, particularly the elected ones are going to their respective counties to do work, our Senators do not even have the County Development The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I understand the pain of the Senator who has just spoken, but I support the Motion. Going by the way we have been working, I doubt whether even another week will make a difference. We need to change the way we are working in this Senate with regard to Bills and Motions. We must make sure that we do not spend so much time bickering, but doing the serious work we have been appointed to do. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank the leadership of the Senate. We hope that we are gaining good experience as to the way forward. I hope we will be able to do much more work in the coming years. Recess is a time to take stock as well, evaluate what we have done and what is ahead of us.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I can see that there are only two Members who want to speak to this Motion. Therefore, I will use my powers and invoke Standing Order No.30 to extend time to allow you to contribute. Proceed, Senator.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to urge leaders to tame our utterances when we go out there. We are crying about insecurity in the country whereas some of us are responsible for fueling insecurity in this country. If we continue to talk the way we have been talking at each other and showing disunity as if there is a crisis in the country, I believe they will also react differently. I urge my colleagues and the other leaders to act maturely knowing that our youngsters and other people who are disgruntled are watching us. I would also like to add my voice to the concerns about insecurity in this country. I would like to reiterate that whereas the Government is fully in charge and responsible for security, we, as citizens, also have a stake and a role to play in ensuring security in this country. It is unfortunate that when the President said that, some people wanted to turn it around and claim that he absolved the Government from responsibility. From what I understand; whereas the Government has the bulk of responsibility, every citizen also has some responsibility. Some of these people perpetuating insecurity live with us. Others cross the border and come here to cause insecurity. I am sure there are citizens who know them and yet they do not report. Unless we cooperate with the security agencies, we will not deal effectively with insecurity in this country. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to urge the Select Committee that is looking into the cause of insecurity that they should also see whether there is a hidden hand somewhere. It is impossible to think that all this goes on and nobody here is involved in helping those people in one way or another. That will ensure that everybody is really concerned about insecurity and doing their part. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! Your time is up!
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I support this Motion. I would like to start by saying that this Senate has really grown from strength to strength, from the time we began. We need to remember that we are a new House in a new bicameral system as stipulated in the Constitution of Kenya, 2010. I think that we have put our best foot forward and worked hard. We have also found ways of getting our work better done. As has been alluded to, we have passed 11 Bills. We could have had more, but we can sit back, as we begin the Third Session, and find mechanisms to fast-track even the way we process Bills and discuss them. We have a lot of business in this House and want to transact it in such a way that by the time we finish the Fifth Session, we will have really surpassed the Bills that we would have wanted to bring to this House. In the Committee on Education where I sit, we brought two very crucial Bills to the House; the Early Childhood Development Bill and the Universities (Amendment) Bill which will really streamline the education sector in this country. I am sure that across all the Committees a lot of vibrancy has really taken off. I remember when we began, we, as the Senate, had a session where we met the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA). But this time we have been able to do it within the various Committees. The various Committees have really grown and the dynamism within them will actually enable us to get our agenda going. There was a reason people voted for devolution and a bicameral system. Therefore, it is very important that we, as the Senate, contextualize our roles in terms of being the guardian angel of the counties. The work that we need to do in this Senate must be done. We have spoken about accountability which is very critical. As much as we fight for more resources, as long as we do not get a culture in this country; that we must be accountable for what has been given to us--- In fact, I do not even think that any state organ needs to follow another one and request for accountability from that state organ. We need to move to a point where we actually come forth with the figures, calculations and expenditure and put them up for everybody to see. This is because we really must ensure that devolution has worked by the end of five years. People within the communities must feel that social economic development has come their way. We would appreciate at that point if they will attribute it to the Senate. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, now that a more cordial working relationship with the National Assembly is developing, I think it will be very quick for us to dispense of our agendas. The process of allocating Bills and determining whether or not they concern counties needs to be streamlined, so that we can have quick concurrence between the two Speakers. We are moving to a point where we also anticipate more Bills to come to this House from the National Assembly, even as we produce our own Bills within the context of the Senate. We are up to the task and we are looking forward to it as we take a rest so that we come back more re-energized and energetic. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will not take a lot of time. I will take a few minutes to support the Motion for Adjournment Motion. First, I take the opportunity to thank the leadership of the House; the Speaker’s Panel, the Senate Majority Leader, the Senate Minority Leader and all the Members of the Senate who have participated in the deliberations of this House. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we know our responsibilities of oversight over the counties. We are aware that there are some constitutional bodies that should help us to oversight. These are: The Office of the Auditor-General, the Ethics and Anti Corruption Commission (EACC), the Criminal Investigation Department (CID) and others. We demand a lot from these bodies, but we also need to support them so that they can support us. We know that the Office of the Auditor-General has just about 100 personnel who were previously serving one Government, but now, they are serving the 47 county governments, including the national Government. It is very clear from this that they are definitely over-stretched and they are, probably, not helping us much. This is shown by the fact that the Auditor-General’s reports reach us very late. In fact, in most cases, it is the case of closing the barn when the horse has already bolted. Right now, under our noses, we are now watching as resources that we devolved to the counties, being wasted by some of the busy bodies in the counties. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we need to support these bodies in our next dispensation as we deliberate on issues within the Senate so that we can truly be representative, supervise and oversight the counties that we represent. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, during this session when we have been in the House, we have witnessed the greatest number of our own Kenyans lose lives, not as a result of diseases but as a result of violence in our country. This is very worrisome. It is important that we look at that issue. When you listen to Kenyans talking nowadays, everyone of them knows what should be done in order to sort out the security problem. However, this is not being done. Therefore, we ask the Government to evolve new tactics at every turn to tackle the insecurity problem that is threatening each one of us. We listen and we have heard individuals say, you must take care of your own security. Of course, this is a very true statement; that it is upon us as citizens to be careful and take some part in our own security. However, we expect that our Government offers us the maximum security that we require to make progress in this country. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in this country, we are also being threatened with another form of insecurity. This is food insecurity. Although we have areas in our country where there is plentiful supply of food, but it is the way we manage it that can guarantee us food security or otherwise. Probably we are going to lose more lives in this country in the middle of plenty because of the way we manage and move food resources within our country. Therefore, I hope that in time, we are going to be very careful about the surplus food that is in our country so that, not only shall we consume it, but also get resources out of them and use them appropriately. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the health of Senators and all Members of Parliament is very important. It may look child-like to go to the gym, but it is not childish. I would like to request that Senators use the gym. I am sure there is no The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Orengo, you came above time. However, I will use my discretion to allow you to speak.
Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I was caught up in traffic jam. I should have been here more than an hour earlier, but I appreciate the exercise of your discretion for you to allow me to have the last word on this Motion
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! I will have the last word on this Motion.
Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir, I am talking the last word on the Floor of the House. From the seat of the Speaker, you will definitely have the last word. I had anticipated that this Motion was coming. It is my strong belief that there is a lot that is happening in the country that requires the presence of both the National Assembly and the Senate to be in session until the country overcomes the difficult situation we are in. I have never heard of a situation where a President of a country says that the country is under attack and that it is at war after which legislators choose to go on recess. That utterance by the President, that the country is at war, quickly calls into question the constitutional responsibility of the National Assembly and the Senate. It is in the Constitution that when it comes to deployment of the military internally, that is in the domain of the National Assembly. However, where the Government requires additional troops to go outside in defence of the country, the role of the Senate becomes critical. For that very important reason alone, I feel rather embarrassed that at this critical time, this Senate is going on recess. Be that as it may, upon reflection and when we are down in the county, some of us will have to explain why we decided to come. If the country feels that it is appropriate for the Senate to be away, so be it. As we contemplate what is happening in the country at the moment, it is critical that the law is applied as it is. In fact, whereas the President received a report from a group of professionals and technocrats on the situation of security in the country, there is already existing legislation. I was impressed by the late Minister for Provincial Administration and National Security, Prof. George Saitoti. The Police Service Act was being discussed in the Cabinet subcommittee requiring the Governor to play a role in the security operations of the National Police Service at the County level. That legislation requires that the Governor sits on and chairs the county security authority. I do not remember the name precisely. That legislation is in place and yet the security organs have refused to implement that legislation. We heard the Governor of Mandera crying to the national Government to provide security to that county. Obviously, it appears that in the last one month, the Governor seems to have had The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Hon. Members, it is now time to adjourn. However, before I make the pronouncement on adjournment, I would like to make the following statement. I wish all the Members of this House a happy Christmas and a prosperous New Year. I also wish to state that the Senate is not dissolved. The Senate may be called upon at any time, be it tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, next week or after the recess is over. So, be ready. If need arises, this Chair will use the powers bestowed upon it by you. The Senate is, therefore, adjourned until Tuesday, 10th February, 2015 at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.45 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.