Hon. Senators, let us move to statements. Yes, Prof. John Lonyangapuo? ARREST OF YOUTH OVER ALLEGED MISMANAGEMENT OF FUNDS IN WEST POKOT COUNTY
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to request for a statement on a county issue under the provisions of Standing Order No.45(2)(a). This matter appertains to the arrest of several youth in West Pokot County after raising integrity issues over management of funds allocated to the county. The four youths arrested so far are; (1) Bruno Lomweno (2) Allan Pkite Rengete (3) Elijah Lokori Kaseuseu; and, (4) Malik Kassachoon. These youth raised concern over the inflated cost of construction of nurses’ houses at some dispensaries across the county. However, instead of the matter being investigated by the county authorities, the youth are being harassed by the police and Criminal Investigations Department (CID) officers at the behest of those accused of impropriety. I take this opportunity to appeal to the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC) to intervene in the matter and to request the Director of CID to inquire into the circumstances under which the above youth were arrested. He should investigate the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, hon. Senator. Stop speculating. You have made your statement. Senator (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, you may want to conclude because you said you were making a statement under Standing Order No.45(2)(a).
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was saying that county assemblies should also be checking their executives. It is not only the Senate that should do oversight. Even the civilians in the county have power and ability to check whether things are going right. It is on this strength that I am raising this issue so that Government arms that are supposed to do investigations and deal with security matters do their work. They should not delegate their work to county officials who have messed up to the extent I have mentioned. Lastly, county assembly members in some counties like mine have neglected their duty. Instead of doing oversight and checking on the county executives, they now work for the county executive. It is for that reason that these young people have taken to the social media to point out these things. The county government officials who have been mentioned should take it upon themselves to investigate what things have gone wrong rather than try to block and silence criticism in the county. HAZARDS POSED BY NAIROBI DAM
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You may recall that last week, I explained to the House my predicament in trying to obtain this statement from the Nairobi County Government. I told the House that I had invoked Article 125 of the Constitution. I am glad to report that the Nairobi County Government has now responded. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
It is so ordered. Let us move to statement 2(b) which should be responded to by Sen. Karaba.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had a statement to issue to the Senate but the person who requested for it is not here. Could I go ahead?
Order, Sen. Karaba. Please, resume your seat. Hon. Senators, we had agreed that we need to manage our time better. Therefore, if there are consultations that we have already agreed upon, let the Chair be privy to them. We do not have to revisit that matter in the plenary. Let us move to statement 2(c) on Status of Cash Transfer Programme. Where is the Chairperson for Labour and Social Welfare Committee? Where is the Vice Chairperson? Is there any Member available? We will revisit it at the end of statement hour. This will also apply to “2d” on Killings in Kitui County. Unless a Member has a response, we will revisit it later. This will also apply to “e” on Criteria for Appointment/Regional Distribution of Appointment to Parastatals and “f” and “g” on Utilization of CDF in Tana River County During the 2012/2013 Financial Year and Health Status of Children Mishandled by Medical Staff in Busia County respectively. With regard to statement “f”, the Senator is not here. We will move it to tomorrow whether he is present or not. Yes, Sen
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am a Member of the Labour and Social Welfare Committee. I am informed by the Secretariat of the Committee that we are yet to receive the statement. I undertake, on behalf of the Committee, that we report progress on Thursday this week.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I believe the Member is not properly informed. We were not expecting a response to a statement. We were expecting the Cabinet Secretary to come. This was a matter of the date of when the Cabinet Secretary would come to complete the work that she did not complete when we met in this Chamber---
Correct, I remember. Sen. Halima, you need to look for your Chairperson, wherever he is so that you give us a proper undertaking before the end of statement time. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations. The Statement is in relation to the killing of police officers in Lokichogio. In the Statement, I would like the Chairperson to address the following pertinent issues:- (a) confirm if the Government is aware of the killings that took place on 18th July, 2015, where an Officer Commanding Police Station (OCS) Lokichogio and National Police Reservists were killed by Toposa cattle rustlers from the Eastern Equatorial State of South Sudan; (b) explain the action the Government will take to arrest the raiders; and, (c) state what further steps the Government will undertake to guarantee the security of the residents living along our border with South Sudan. Thank you very much.
Is the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations here? Is any Member of the Committee present to respond to that Statement? In whatever the case, we expect the response in two weeks time. The Senate Majority Leader will deliver the message on the directive of the Chair.
Order, the Senate Majority Leader. It is not up to you to respond; I have given a directive. Please proceed, Sen. Musila KILLINGS IN KITUI COUNTY
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I stand in connection with Statement No.(d) on the Order Paper on the issue of killings between Kitui and Tana River borders particularly the killings that are happening to my people in Kitui County. The issue has gone on for a long time and every time the Chairperson of the Committee reports that they will come with a Statement. The last time they responded, the Statement was inadequate and you ordered that a further Statement be given immediately. This is a matter of life and death. We are sitting here waiting for the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations to come whenever he or she wants yet we are getting nowhere. I seek your guidance on this matter because it has gone unconcluded as my people continue to die at the hands of the herders from another county. The Government is not taking any action. We were to receive a comprehensive response from the Chairperson or his Vice-Chairperson of the Committee, yet nothing is forthcoming. I do not see any of them here. Kindly guide us on this matter. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
I sympathize with you, Sen. Musila. However, without the benefit of what the Committee has done, it is a bit difficult for me to give direction. Sen. Ongoro, do you have something to contribute on this matter?
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to undertake on behalf of the Committee that in view of the fact that it is a matter that it is already being handled by the Committee, we will give a comprehensive answer on Thursday this week.
So ordered. Please give the response with finality because the Member is obviously frustrated. Please proceed, Sen. (Prof.) Lesan. SEIZURE OF KENYAN IVORY IN THAILAND
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Sometime back, I raised an issue to the Chairperson of the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries regarding the tea sector. The response was good because we had a conference on tea but up to date, I have not received an answer from the Cabinet Secretary or a report from the Committee. I seek your indulgence to ask the Chairperson of the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries to give us a way forward on what transpired in the Conference that we had to do with tea sector at Safari Park Hotel. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Chairperson of the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries, please respond to that question.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank Sen. (Prof.) Lesan for this request. We participated in a stakeholders’ conference where the issues that the Senator had raised before the House were addressed by the Cabinet Secretary in the same conference. It was resolved at the conference that the Cabinet Secretary would set up a task force to implement the various recommendations that were made by all the stakeholders at the conference. I know that preparation was underway to appoint the task force but unfortunately, before the task force was gazetted, the Cabinet Secretary had to step aside. We are waiting for the developments at the Ministry for us to follow up, as soon as the Cabinet Secretary is reappointed.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am grateful for the action that the Chairperson of the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries has taken and appreciate the answer that he has given this afternoon. However, there is an acting Cabinet Secretary and Principal Secretary in office. I believe that despite the fact that the substantive Cabinet Secretary for the Ministry of Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries, is out of office, the acting Cabinet Secretary can still carry out the functions of the office so that some work goes on. Farmers are waiting and this should be done speedily so that we The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Chairperson of the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries, I suppose that when somebody steps aside from a public office, he or she does not carry the office with him or her.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Cabinet Secretary who stepped aside was very familiar with the issues that the task force was to deal with, because he was part of the discussion from the beginning. He himself had taken very personal interest in that matter and we thought it wise – especially because he was cleared by the EACC – to wait for him because his reappointment could be any time before we rush with this matter. I, therefore, plead with my colleague to give Mr. Kosgei, the Cabinet Secretary, a little more time to see if he will come back to continue with this project.
Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, I think the Chairperson has made his case. It is worth giving him the benefit of the doubt. Sen. Okong’o, what is it?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have just received a card from the Ambassador of the United States of America (USA) inviting me to listen to President Obama’s speech. I am surprised that we are receiving this invitation which I think is supposed to come from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Trade or yourself. I do not know what is happening.
Order, Sen. Okong’o. I do not think you have communicated to the Chair what you intended to. I will not even allow you to proceed. I have said time and again that you do not ambush the Chair. I thought it was a matter related to the business before the House. Approach the Chair and then we will see how to assist you, especially when you make remarks like those. You have confused yourself; you do not know. May be if you approach the Chair, he may make you know. TERMS OF OPERATION/ENGAGEMENT FOR COUNTY SECURITY AND ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS
Mr. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.45(2)(b), I seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Devolved Government regarding capacity building for county officials who perform specific security and enforcement functions. In the Statement, the Chairperson should highlight the following concerns, among others. (1) What are the defined operations and terms and conditions of service for county security and enforcement officers? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to raise an important issue on this very important matter. It looks like there is some unwritten agreement among governors that they form this particular force. Could the Chairperson also tell us under what law they are forming this police force, when we know that it is only Parliament that has the power to form a police service away from the one in the Constitution?
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Allow me to also ride on the Statement which has been sought. I would like to know whether these security apparatus that are being formed by governors in counties will be armed. If so, what is the chain of command for these security apparatus?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to congratulate Sen. Khaniri before I say how many days I will require to bring a response. That is a question that is disturbing many Kenyans because there is a gang which we are told are security people every time we go for a public function in the county. Apparently, they report to the governor and sometimes they supervise booing of other leaders except the ones they have allegiance to. This is a very serious issue and if possible, may be, my Committee – now that the Statement is directed to us – should have an actual feel of the same by not only getting an answer from the Council of Governors but also visiting a few counties to get direct answers on the legality of this issue. If Sen. Khaniri can permit, he and any other Senator who is interested can join us when we make those visits because we will do it urgently. Therefore, I beg his permission that you give us one month since the recess might come in the next one week. After that, we can then come up with a more comprehensive response that this House can use to give direction to the country.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank Sen. Khaniri for raising the issue. I would also want the Chairperson of the Committee to clearly – in fact, before bringing the actual Statement – give an interim Statement and directions that apart from the police force which is recognised in the Constitution, this Senate passed a Motion only to allow the Nairobi County Government to have a metropolitan police force. No other county has any authority in law or fact to entertain recruitment, training and management of a militia which is being paid for by public funds. What goes on out there is embarrassing and shocking. You will see this militia carrying chairs for governors to sit on at funerals; transporting chairs for 10 to 20 kilometres for the governor to sit on at a funeral and all manner of strange things. This is an abuse of public resources. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Are you implying. by any chance, that governors should not be sitting at funerals?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, when the distinguished Senator for Bungoma goes to a funeral, he either stands if there is no seat or sits on the ground or any seat available and given to him by anybody at the funeral. You do not engage in the extravagance and obscenity of transporting a chair on a pick-up for 20 kilometres to go and sit on it. Finally, I would expect the Chair to also direct the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget to inquire into how much has been budgeted for in each county for the management and payment of this militia, illegal as it is.
Hon. Ndiema, you seem to be having a burning question.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would also like to seek further clarification on that Statement. Even before we go to the counties, we should get a response as to how many persons have been recruited in each county to perform that function and whether the County Public Service Boards have been involved in the recruitment.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, you are on record telling the Senate Minority Leader that nobody is supposed to substantiate the obvious. In this case we should state it clearly; we are inquiring into an illegality, we should also pronounce ourselves that whatever is happening in the counties is illegal and the Chairman ought to say so as he is investigating so that from the deliberations here, we will ask Sen. Murkomen to go and investigate an illegality because the only way you can form this police force or any other force is under Article 247. Since the Senate or the National Assembly has not passed any law for the creation of other police services, we must state it clearly that the Chairman is going to investigate an illegality.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, further to that question raised by the distinguished Senator for Vihiga, I seek further clarification. Could the Chairman in that Statement ask the governors to give a tabulation of the so-called security who I believe are militia? Which clans or wards do they come from?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the reason why we have these questions and why I congratulated Sen. Khaniri for bringing it is because from the face of it, it looks like an illegality. However, that is why it has been committed to the Committee to find out whether it is an illegality and secondly as to whether that illegality is there at the moment. My responsibility is to request the House, that considering the comprehensive nature of this Statement and considering that this is not the kind of Statement you simply take to the Cabinet Secretary in charge of devolution; it is a Statement that is very involving. Perhaps, the Committee will have to write to all the county governments to respond individually and perhaps a few hearings in a few counties. We might have--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Do you notice when we are receiving a very important response to a very critical issue, the Senate Majority Leader is laughing away the afternoon with two distinguished Senators and disrupting the proceedings of the House?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Senate Minority Leader for raising that point of order so that all of us can listen to this. At the same time, I am happy that the Senate Majority Leader was laughing and not crying.
I also thought so. When the Senate Majority Leader laughs, you have only extended the laughter to the House.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the reason why I am asking for the indulgence of hon. Senators is because we need a comprehensive and conclusive answer on this Statement - and I have invited Sen. Khaniri and all the other Senators - that we might need as a Committee to write to all the counties to respond, but also visit a few counties as the Committee will decide so that then we can use that answer and maybe invite the Council of Governors. This is really critical because there were certain counties that had county councils whose askaris had specific responsibilities to enforce specific legislations of that county council. So, what does the law say about transition on the same issue and how do you then extend that to what I saw in one of the counties that I do not want to mention so as not to prejudice the process, where in a village never before had they seen county council
, but you find the governors security team? Who hires them and who pays them? I hear now governors have in their offices something called “confidential accounts” that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale’s committee is pursuing. At the moment, for the benefit of all us, we should avoid an interim answer. You should give us one month and hopefully if the House goes on recess next week, it will mean that by the time we come back, we will have a very comprehensive answer on such an important issue.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, while agreeing with the Chairman of the Committee on Devolution that we need a comprehensive answer and we want to give him the one month that he has requested for, I want to bring it to the attention of this House and the nation at large the provisions of our Constitution. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. alluded to it, but I want to read the provisions of the Constitution so that it is very clear and explicit that—
Order! I will not allow you to read them; just mention them and then people can read them for themselves.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is just for emphasis. Article 247 is just two lines. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Proceed, Sen. Khaniri.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Article 247 of the Constitution provides:- “Parliament may enact legislation establishing other police services under the supervision of the National Police Service and the command of the Inspector-General of this Service”. It is only this House and maybe the National Assembly that has powers to establish a police force. So, the governors must be advised that if they need police forces in the counties, then ultimately they have to come to this House.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is a practical issue that is addressing the disruption of normal business by small business traders. Giving the example of Kakamega County, there are running battles every day between this militia and members of the public. Could the Chair direct that since the Senate serves to protect the interests of counties, until after this report is brought by Sen. Murkomen, there should be no further harassment of wananchi by these militia until it is clear that there is need for them to be there? Otherwise, people in Kakamega are going to kill these militia people. Yesterday, Perepetua wa Khatiala who sells oranges outside the Yako Market, her fruits were thrown all over the place and the boda boda boys had to attack these fellows. So, it is not a joke. Issue an order and direct, I beg you!
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Did you hear the distinguished Senator for Kakamega mumbling some words that are not English or Swahili? Is he in order to mumble words whose meaning we do not understand?
Sen. Ong’era, your own name is not an English word. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale made references to some villages and other names. It was a name.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Senator for Kakamega County – who has announced publicly that he also wants the type of seats where people sit and they are carried around – in order to say that there are militias? In fact, those are public servants employed as law enforcement officers similar to the Inspectorate Department of Nairobi County just like any other. Is he in order to refer to them as militia? That is a dangerous term to use. He should withdraw.
Order, Sen. Billow! The word “militia” had been used before Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale used it. Where were you all this time? That is his thinking. These are issues being brought before the Committee. The Chairman of the Committee has put it that he will determine legality or otherwise. One Member said that the group might be illegal. The Committee will also determine whether it is a militia group or part of the inspectorate officers you are talking about.
Order, Senators! Let us bring this matter to a close now. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Chairman is in the House. We briefed each other regarding the Status of Cash Transfer Programme and he is in the right position to talk about it.
You have delivered him.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, with regards to the Statement concerning the status of the Cash Transfer Programme, the Cabinet Secretary (CS) for the Ministry of Labour, Social Security and Services will come to this House on Wednesday, 20th August at exactly 2.30 p.m. I am seeking your indulgence over Sen. Musila’s request.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, 20th August is a month away from today. I do not think we are in a position, at the moment, to determine on the date. Could the Chairman tell us whether he means 20th of August, September or July?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I meant 20th July, 2015. So, it is only next week.
Order, Mr. Chairman! Today is 21st July.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sorry. Maybe, I woke up on the wrong side of the bed. I meant 25th July, 2015. That will be Wednesday, next week.
Order! Sen. Madzayo, 25th July will be Saturday this week.
I will give you a chance to recollect your thoughts. Then, you can come back after two minutes. Please, verify your dates. CRITERIA FOR APPOINTMENT/REGIONAL DISTRIBUTION OF APPOINTMENT TO PARASTATALS
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was trying to catch your eye with respect to Statement (e) on the Order Paper before the Senator who is the Vice Chairperson of the Committee walked out. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I requested for the Statement sometime in April, but it is still pending.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to inquire about Statement (e) on the Order Paper. I requested for it sometime in April, but it is still pending. Could the Chair give some direction on it because I have waited for it for too long? I saw the Chairman walk out but I do not know how long he will take. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
The Vice Chairperson of that Committee is not the Chairman. Is it Sen. Lesuuda or which one are you talking about?
He has just walked in.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am tracing the answer to the Statement. It is with the Clerk to the Committee. That is why I walked out to see if I could get. I do not have it here with me.
What is it, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the reply to the Statement is with the Clerk to the Committee. That is why I walked out to see whether I could get it from him. I do not have the reply.
Is the reply ready?
Yes, but it is with the Clerk to the Committee. It has not yet reached me.
Shall we do that tomorrow afternoon?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
So ordered. Senator Justice Madzayo. STATUS OF CASH TRANSFER PROGRAMME
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am very sorry about the confusion I had concerning dates. I want to explain to the House that 29th would be on Wednesday next week. That is when the CS will be in the House. However, after consulting Sen. Musila who sought for the Statement, I got it from him that he will not be in the House on 29th July, 2015. Therefore, it is up to him to explain about that. All I am saying is that we could do that after the recess.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I confirm that I had a discussion with the Chairman. Since we are scheduled to be on recess from 30th July, 2015, I thought it would be reasonable for us to give the CS more time so that we deal with the matter after the recess.
So ordered. That brings us to end of Statement Time. We had done very well on that until the Statement requested by Sen. Khaniri came. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Hon. Senators, I have a communication to make regarding the appointment of the Chairperson, Governor and Deputy Governor of the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK). Hon. Senators, on Thursday, 25th June, 2015, the Senator for Kakamega County, (Dr.) Khalwale, while on a point of order, sought the Chair’s directions on the vetting process of the nominees for appointment as the Governor and Deputy Governor of the CBK. He drew the attention of the Chair to the provisions of Sections 13 and 13(b) of the CBK Act, Cap 491 which require the approval of Parliament before the nominees are appointed to office. I wish to apologise for the delay in the response. Specifically, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale stated that the National Assembly had undertaken and concluded the vetting process and approved the nominees and the Senate was not involved in the vetting and approval of the nominees as required by the CBK Act. He reminded the House that in a similar provision of another statute, a precedent had been set where the Inspector General of Police was vetted by a joint vetting committee of both Houses. The Senator sought guidance from the Chair on what intervention the Senate would undertake to ensure the appointment of the Governor and Deputy Governor of the Central Bank of Kenya was done through due process. The matter was also canvassed by the Senate Minority Leader who further sought to know the implications of an appointment without vetting by the Senate as required by the law. Hon. Senators, Article 231 of the Constitution establishes the Central Bank of Kenya and mandates Parliament to enact legislation to provide for the composition, powers, functions and operations of the Central Bank of Kenya. The legislation contemplated by this Article is the Central Bank of Kenya Act, CAP 491 of the Laws of Kenya. Section 11 of the Central Bank of Kenya Act provides for the composition of the Board of Directors of the Bank as follows- (a) the Chairperson, (b) the Governor, (c) the Permanent Secretary to the Treasury or his representative who shall be a non-voting member; and, (d) five other non-executive directors (who shall be appointed by the President with the approval of Parliament). Further, Sections 13 and 13B of the same Act establish the offices of the Governor and two Deputy Governors who shall be appointed by the President with the approval of Parliament. For the benefit of Senators, Article 93(1) of the Constitution provides as follows- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank you for that excellent Communication. May I point out that the appointment of Dr. Patrick Njoroge, whose qualifications we have only heard about and Mrs. Sheila M’Mbijiwe is contrary to the law. If you read Article 145(1) of the Constitution, it provides that:- “A Member of the National Assembly, supported by at least a third of all Members, may move a Motion for the impeachment of the President- (a) on the ground of gross violation of a provision of this Constitution or any other law.” Mr. Speaker, Sir, the President has breached the Constitution and the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) Act. “(c) for gross misconduct.” I would like to remind you that when this matter was brought to your attention, the approval and, therefore, the need to appoint these two Kenyans had not been gazettted. But after this matter was brought to your attention and you communicated to all those offices, the Office of the President went ahead to appoint, gazette and arrange for handing over between the outgoing and incoming Governor of CBK. In so doing, the President engaged himself in gross misconduct. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the second avenue that I am seeing in my mind is for a member of the public to move to the High Court and persuade the courts to find that the appointment of these two officers was unlawful and, therefore, should be declared null and void. In view of these two limbs that I have referred to, I would like you to advise me, as the Speaker of the Senate of Kenya, on what I should do to protect the Constitution of Kenya and constitutionalism and kill the culture of impunity by the President of the Republic of Kenya. Please, advise me.
Sen. Khalwale, you sought a Statement from the Chair and I have communicated to you the facts as they are according to the Constitution and law. I cannot advise you any further than that. The fact that you are a Senator, you ought to know what options are available to you. I have discharged by obligations to you and the nation.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you for that “Solomonic” ruling. It is a shame that the Jubilee Government continues to perpetuate acts of impunity without regard to this distinguished House. It is no wonder that we have a myriad of problems in The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Sen. Ong’era! The Senator for Kakamega read to you Article 145(1). I am afraid that your suggestion to him will not work. It did not refer to the Senate. It referred elsewhere. Proceed, Sen. Orengo.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you for your ruling and for not failing at every instance to express the position of your Chair and the Senate. What you have said is good enough for purposes of record. It could have been worse if events like these occurred and there was no record to show that there was concern by the Senate. It came through the question raised by the Senator for Kakamega, more importantly, by the Chair. One of the foundational principles of this Constitution is the rule of law. In fact, Article 2(2) states:- “No person may claim or exercise State authority except as authorised under this Constitution.” I am getting worried. When things started going wrong after 1963, it was through what, probably, then were little violations of this or that law. However, taken in aggregate, they developed into a situation where people had no faith in the law and the constitutional governance of the land. Your ruling in itself may not go very far because you have even gone to the courts. However, I would ask the Senator for Kakamega to bring a Motion before this House so that we can discuss this matter substantially, express ourselves on it and urge everybody as a Senator, irrespective of whether he or she is from the CORD or Jubilee coalition. There are those in CORD who sometimes transgress the law and the Constitution. If we can express ourselves as a House and join you in the ruling that you have given, as a matter of record, we would be good enough. More importantly, the beginning of bad governance starts with the Executive. That is why in the chapter dealing with the Executive, the President is required to obey, defend and protect the Constitution. That is a matter which is clearly geared towards making sure that governance flows from the Constitution.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to add my voice to the pronouncement you have just made. I thank you for bringing to this House an answer that is in The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join my colleagues in thanking you for that ruling. On several occasions in this House, when you have made such an important ruling, it is published for public consumption in our dailies. I request that we have that Communication put on the newspapers so that everybody knows the position of this House on this issue.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you for the Communication which I would describe as “Solomonic” in its essence. You have stood firmly for the protection and in defence of this Constitution. Since the illegal appointment of the Governor of the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) - that is what it is going by your Communication - certain very important decisions have been made. In the month of July, the Monetary Policy Committee of the CBK that is chaired by the Governor raised the CBK rate from 10 per cent to 15 per cent and the Kenya banks benchmark rate from 8.5 per cent to 9.87 per cent. It would be important that this House, therefore, declares that these decisions chaired by an illegal Governor, are, therefore, illegal, null and void.
I would request your indulgence and guidance that the principal advisor to the President who is the Attorney General and the Chief of Staff who is Mr. Kinyua be invited to a Committee of the Whole House to explain to this House why such a clear provision in the law was disregarded to ensure that some people were appointed in office illegally. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, first, I thank you for that Communication. I ask the Members of the Senate from the CORD side to appreciate that this is not a Jubilee issue. The law has been infringed; whether you are in Jubilee or CORD, we want procedures to be followed.
The Senate is not a police force to act and remove particular gentlemen or ladies from office; we should do the least that can be done. I hope the media will pick it up. Perhaps, for whatever it is worth, the Speaker does a reminder.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, when this matter came to the Floor, I was one of those who rose after Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. I congratulate you. You have demonstrated that you do not fear to speak and you do not speak in fear. That is the Speaker we want and that is the Speaker we have; the Speaker who has the ability and courage to defend and uphold the Constitution. Over and above that, your ruling should not be in vain. This House has been sidestepped, ignored and by-passed. I have no doubt that the President is not a foolish person because I have worked with him in many capacities. It is his advisors that are sending him astray every day. The President is not a lawyer; he does not spend his time ploughing through the law and the Constitution. He has people around him who must constantly tell him that the dotted line in which he is signing is according to the law and the Constitution or not. The day the advisors behave like the proverbial foolish wise men who told the king that he was wearing a fantastic suit when he was naked are the wrong people. There is the Attorney-General; there is an excited young man called Abdikadir; there is a man called Njee Muturi who knows very little law and a few others. If the President wants to protect his legacy, even as a one term President, he must do the right thing. Mr. Speaker, Sir, having made that ruling, this Senate should take the next step because jurisdiction is not given on a plate, it is fought for, protected and guaranteed by us under the law. Our next stop is that even if the new Governor will get his job, the process must be legal and constitutional. Looking at his credentials, he is qualified. My only quarrel is that the President and his Deputy constantly continue to appoint people from the same community. This is wrong but the man is qualified. I urge that we take the next step and go to court to challenge the constitutionality and legality of that appointment so that in future, every time the President wants to assent to any law or make any appointment, he will be constrained to ask whether it is in conformity with the law and the Constitution. I have no doubt that sooner or later, he will ignore Attorney-General Githu Muigai, Njee and Abdikadir and look for better lawyers like Sen. Sang to ask them for an opinion. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I congratulate you.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for reaffirming the position of the law. The Senators have lauded you for being Solomonic. In the case of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is nobody who is disagreeing with your ruling. It is characteristic of you to give rulings which uphold the Constitution and the dignity of this House. It is quite clear not only from what has happened regarding the appointment of the Governor but even when the Inspector-General of Police was being appointed, there was a struggle for the Senate to be recognized as a House of Parliament and to participate in the vetting of the Inspector-General of Police. The lesson was quickly forgotten. It appears that there are some forces who are constantly denying that the Senate is part of Parliament. It appears as if there are forces in the Government who do not recognize this House as a House of Parliament. These are the mistakes that are leading to what you are seeing today. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are also to blame because the Governor we are talking about is a good man and a good Catholic. He is not an ostentatious person. I understand that he is introducing very good policies at the Central Bank of Kenya; he does not travel with the battery of the militia that other governors are walking around with. We do not have a quarrel with the personality of the person who is sitting as the Governor of the Central Bank of Kenya today. It is the process which ignores the Senate that we have a quarrel with. The question we should ask ourselves is what we can do about that process because it was fraudulent, unconstitutional and illegal so that we can correct the procedural mistakes which were made in the appointment of the Governor. We should be exploring opportunities for us to vet the Governor again as a Senate to find out whether what the National Assembly found is what we will find regarding him. The substantive point is what Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. pointed out; that there should be an Act of Parliament to provide for the composition, powers, functions and operation of the Central Bank of Kenya. This is not a money Bill. I would recommend that the Senate introduces an Act of Parliament which sets out the functions and powers as per Article 231 (5) of the Constitution for substantive debate in this House, so that we do not cry all the time and take some proactive action as a House of Parliament which represents the sovereignty of the people of Kenya. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Asante sana, Bw. Spika. Nachukua nafasi hii kukupongeza kwa uongozi na uwazi katika uamuzi wako ambao sisi tunaweza kusema pengine ulitekelezwa wakati wa Mfalme Solomoni. Tunausifu uongozi huo kama Maseneta. Kulingana na Katiba yetu ya Kenya, Kipengele cha Kwanza, uongozi wa nchi hii ni jukumu la Bunge. Jukumu hilo linatekelezwa na viongozi waliochaguliwa. Sio mara ya kwanza au ya pili kwetu Maseneta kuona kwamba Rais amechukua mwelekeo usiolingana na Katiba.Tukizingatia zaidi ile Miswada ambayo imetoka katika Bunge la Kitaifa ikipuuza Bunge la Seneti. Hili ni jambo hatari na jukumu hili liko katika mikono yake Rais wa Nchi hii. Yeye kama Rais ana uwezo wa kukataa kutia sahihi na kukuuliza hisia zako kulingana na Mswada unaopelekwa kwake kutiwa sahihi, haswa ikiwa tumejadiliana hapa Seneti na uamuzi wetu ni wa aina gani. Bw. Spika, ikiwa Rais atapuuza msimamo au mkondo kama huo ambao unalingana na Katiba, hii ina maana kwamba Rais wa nchi hii anavunja sheria ndani ya Katiba. Ikiwa kitendo kama hiki kitaendelea, sisi kama Seneti tuna mamlaka, kulingana na Kipengele cha Katiba Nambari 96 kinachosema kwamba Bunge la Seneti lina uwezo wa kumuachisha kazi Rais. Maoni yangu ni kama yale ya ndugu yangu, Seneta wa Kakamega ambaye amesema, kwamba kulikuwa na upuuzi na Bunge la Seneti halikuhusishwa katika uamuzi kuhusu uteuzi wa Gavana wa Benki Kuu ya Kenya. Hata kama ni mzuri wa aina gani, kwa maoni yangu, ikiwa uteuzi huo ulifanywa bila kuambatana na sheria, ni bora waambiwe wakae kando ili Bunge la Seneti lijadiliane na kukubaliana ili sisi nasi tupeleke maoni yetu kwa Rais. La sivyo, ni vizuri Seneta wa Kakamega atengeneze Hoja itakayokuja hapa Seneti, tujadiliane na kuweke historia katika Bunge hili. Asante sana, Bw. Spika.
Sen. Okongo will speak first then Sen. Kagwe and then Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, in that order.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for your informed ruling on the question by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. What we are tackling here is mind boggling. If there are no laws governing the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) as I speak today, then the information that we are getting is that for all the transactions that have been done for the last three years are a nulity. I appeal to the CBK management; the Governor, the Chairman, who is an eminent lawyer and the legal team to “have all systems go” - because that is the main body governing financial transactions in this country. They must urgently go and consult the Constitution and advice. A few months ago, the Attorney General of Kenya told Kenyans that he is a “mortician” and by saying that word, he has abdicated his role of advising the Government of Kenya. These are issues that need to be addressed. The beauty of it all is that this House has the tyranny of brains against the tyranny of numbers that we have seen in other places. Kenyans are watching and when history is written, this House, under your leadership, will be on the right part of history. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I applaud your ruling today and say that a person of integrity such as you would have no choice but make the kind of ruling that you did, because it is the correct one. Having said that, I think that it is important for us to not just look at this particular case, but go back into the history of the relationship between the two Houses and look at the laws that have been made in similar version. This is because, if we are going to correct this situation, it is important for us to do an audit of what else has been passed without the authority of this House; that should have been passed with the authority of this House. I totally agree with Sen. Orengo that it is not a matter for the Opposition or Government. It is a matter of law, procedure and principles. I think that it would be wrong for us to sit here today and say that what was done was correct while it was wrong. Mr. Speaker, Sir, further, I think that there is no point of using a bazooka in a situation that a bullet is required. This is not an issue to call for the impeachment of a President, notwithstanding the fact that, that is actually a matter for the “Lower House”. My view is that a name was proposed by the President of the Republic of Kenya and a House that is part of Parliament proceeded to embarrass not just the nominee who was sitting pretty in a nice job without all the politics. The leadership of the “Lower House” proceeded to embarrass the nominee, the President and this House as well. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the enemy within is worse than the enemy without. The problem that we have, as a Senate, is one within Parliament and not outside it. This is because the name of the nominee was given to Parliament by the President. In fact, he went out of his way to advertise the name, in a manner that was not even necessary. After having done that, the name was sent to Parliament. You would imagine an individual of utmost good faith, thinking properly and according to the law, would then avoid embarrassing the President in any way by ensuring that the name is sent to both Houses. If there is a person who has embarrassed the President – it is nice to be candid and call a spade a spade and not a big spoon – it is actually the “Lower House”. The Speaker, Sir, of the “Lower House” – he is a good friend of mine – should surely have put consideration and put the interests of the President before any complexes that one carries with himself and pass the name to the Senate in a manner that does not create the kind of problem that we now have. Going forward, my view is that according to the law, Parliament is supposed to communicate to the President that they have vetted and approved the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) Governor. Clearly, Parliament has not vetted and approved the Governor in a manner that is very clear within the Constitution. Therefore, I think it behooves this House to communicate with the President and let him know that part of the procedure for approval of the Governor was not followed and, therefore, the name must be brought back for us to go through the procedure. Otherwise, it is not according to the law. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in supporting what you have ruled, we do so with pain. The people who were making those rulings and passing the names back to the Government are Jubilee themselves, just like I am Jubilee. It is Jubilee and not the Opposition which is embarrassing Jubilee. It is those within who can do this that we should punish. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join my colleagues in thanking you for the wise Statement that you have given regarding what was sought by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale which has surprised this House and Kenyans. The Constitution talks about its supremacy in Article 2 (1)(2)(3). Article 2(1) says:- “This Constitution is the supreme law of the Republic and binds all persons and state organs at both levels of Government.” It means that we are supposed to walk and live by this Constitution. Somehow, some of us in Parliament particularly the “Lower House” are operating as if they do not have this Constitution. It, therefore, means that they wrongly interpret Article 93 of the Constitution which talks about Parliament. They read it as National Assembly, which is wrong. Article 2(2) says:- “No person may claim or exercise State authority except as authorised under this Constitution.” Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Constitution has authorised existence of two Houses of Parliament. Some are reading one House and that is why they ignore what was required in the particular case of the employment of the Governor of CBK. Article 2(3) says:- “The validity or legality of this Constitution is not subject to challenge by or before any court or other State organ.” The action of our colleagues in the “Lower House” to quickly rush some of the Bills for assent without regard to the law is tantamount to challenging the legality of this Constitution. What has just happened is a reminder of what has been happening for the last two years. Mr. Speaker, Sir, you will recall that since inception, this House has generated 20 Bills, out of which only four have been taken for assent. Of the four, three are the normal revenue allocation Bills which by law nobody should block, except one that was generated by Sen. Sang, the rest, 16, were stopped. It means, out of that, nearly 20 per cent of the Bills that we have done have gone through the “Lower House”, taken for assent and mandatory three of them are normally the usual ones which must pass. Lastly, this House has received 16 Bills from the “Lower House”, out of which the Senate has passed 12 which is an equivalent of 75 per cent passed. The rest are under different stages. That means that we are the House that follows the law unlike what we hear in the media to the contrary that the “Lower House” leaders sometimes blame the Senate for not passing Bills. Look at the 20 per cent that they have entertained in our case while 80 per cent is not done. I am told they are claiming that these are money Bills. What does not involve money in this world? We have now done what we have. This is not to do with which side of the House but with what the law says, which is, this Constitution is supreme and there is no question about it. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
That is the end of that particular one. Next order!
This is resumption of debate. Sen. Obure had a balance of 11 minutes. You may proceed if you so wish.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. As I was saying before I was interrupted at the close of business last Wednesday, the Universities (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No. 31 of 2014) initiated by Sen. Abdille actually wants to establish strong links between university institutions and counties. Of course, it is the desire of everybody to see a university established in each county. If we succeed in doing that, we expect universities in the counties to promote learning and enhance knowledge, research and innovation. Such institutions could even be vehicles or catalysts for introducing appropriate technologies in certain sectors of the county economies. For example, in the area of agriculture, universities could introduce appropriate technology for value addition for agricultural produce available within the county. I believe that with proper mechanisms in place for collaboration, universities could be instrumental in helping counties ---
Order, Senators! I do not wish to interrupt Sen. Obure but I see most of you still maintain your previous requests. Please undo them if you do not intend to contribute to this. The Chair is a very fair man. I had already announced that the last three contributors appearing on my screen would be given the opportunities in that order. That is exactly what I did and anybody who came after the screen had been cleared, it was too bad.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we know you as very fair and objective. I was just saying that with proper mechanisms in place for collaboration, university institutions The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir I rise to support this amendment Bill and to thank Sen. Halima Abdille for bringing it. When this Senate was constituted two years ago, one of the Motions that were brought to the House, discussed and passed was the one compelling the National Government to liaise with the county The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Your time is up!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also stand to support this Bill. If you look at the amendments that are proposed in this Bill, you will realize that the Bill is advocating for the creation of an enhanced coordination and liaison between the CUE and the county governments. In view of the fact that most counties are now advocating for the creation of universities and bearing in mind that we have already passed a Bill here, it is only proper that we should support this amendment to create some order and sanity in the manner in which these institutions will be managed in this country. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this amendment Bill. Currently, there are 22 public universities in this country. According to this Bill, the county governments will facilitate universities to acquire land to put up infrastructure. When building a university, there are many amenities that are required to ensure that students learn in a conducive environment. Apart from infrastructure, we must provide them with security. Lack of these facilities will lead to a crisis like the one we are facing now in Garissa County after the terror attack on Garissa University. Many of the students came from other counties while few students came from Garissa County. The institution is well structured with all the facilities, but with no students because of lack of security. As we debate this amendment, we must condemn violence in our universities. For example, Moi University has been a peaceful public university. However, in recent times, it has become embroiled in ethnic challenges and conflicts. If the county governments could effectively deal with these issues, strikes and other challenges may be sorted out amicably. While we appreciate that the county governments must be brought on board in management of universities, they should not go overboard and assume responsibility of running universities. That is where we should be very clear as we amend the law to safeguard the institutions of high learning so that we also do not find ourselves in a conflict. When the amendment is brought, it will be very clear that there will be a liaison which will assist in the infrastructure development of those institutions. It does not devolve education. Again, we should not be in a situation where we find ourselves having challenges of lecturers in those universities. We must be very careful. We have a very good example of Moi University where the Vice Chancellor is being rejected because of ethnic inclinations. As we debate this Bill, we must protect these institutions. I thank Halima and her team for visiting Moi University. She understands the challenges--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. Elachi, you said you want to thank who?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Halima, Senator.
She is Sen. Halima.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am sorry. I thank Sen. Halima for the work she did. She understands challenges facing Moi University. As you bring these amendments, I believe that it is one of those recommendations---
What is your point of order, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is a point of information.
Who do you want to inform?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform, Sen. Elachi.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, he was a professor at Moi University; let him inform me.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform my colleague that the problems that Moi University had last week are normal. Small strikes are normal. Do not overemphasize this. These problems are part and parcel of life and have been sorted out.
Is the information that you have been given helpful?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is not. What I am talking about is not what happened the other day. I am referring to the serious crisis the Senator and her colleagues of the Committee on Education faced when they went there to try to reconcile them.
Sen. Ongoro, what is your point of order?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is the hon. Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo in order to mislead this House and Kenyans---
It is too late now. We have moved on. Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo sat down long ago. Proceed, Sen. Elachi.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the most important thing is that we will have a legal framework in which the universities will liaise with the counties, and more importantly, to understand their roles in the counties. I would like to give an example of Garissa County.
What is it, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo? Do you want to give more information?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would like to inform my colleague further.
You cannot inform somebody by force. You should seek her consent to be informed. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform her that what she is referring to is University of Eldoret which is different from Moi University. She is referring to the problems which have been on-going in the University of Eldoret and not Moi University.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that should be the last information of misleading Kenyans from the professor. Moi University is in Eldoret. I am not talking about any university in Eldoret; I am talking about Moi University. Again, I want to thank Sen. Halima and her Committee for visiting Moi University.
Eldoret ni gani na Moi ni gani ?
Order! What is the point of order, Sen. Karaba? I must remind you, like I have done many times, that you must always carry your card when you crisscross the House. When you are making a point of order, you are supposed to make an intervention; not raise your hand.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was visiting Sen. Halima when I heard the misleading---
You are visiting who?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sen. Halima. I was consulting her over that Bill only to hear some misleading information. My card is on the other side.
Proceed, Sen. Karaba.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have two universities.
Are you giving information or a point of order.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, I am on a point of order; whether it is proper for somebody to mislead this House that University of Eldoret is the same as Moi University. They are not. We have University of Eldoret campus and Moi University, Eldoret. It is important to note that. I am speaking as the Chairperson of the Committee on Education in this matter.
Sen. Billow, what is your point of order. Sen. Karaba, was he using your card? Sen. Elachi, you have been corrected twice.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have understood.
It is not a question of understanding. You either correct the position or assert that the information that he has given you is wrong. There are only those two options. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, it is correct, but we know very well that the mother of all those universities was Moi University. Others are constituent universities of Moi University. I know that each has a Vice Chancellor, but the country knows that the mother of all those constituent universities was Moi University.
Order, Sen. Elachi! You are getting into a very dangerous ground now. It is like saying that the University of Nairobi was the mother of all universities. Every university with a charter is a university in its own right. Therefore, you must give it its actual distinction. It is not an idle or simple thing that is being discussed. You need to make the correct the statement. So, make the correction if they are right.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, they are right. I have made that correction. We need to be very careful because while we build up these institutions, we must also look at the different challenges that every county has. There are counties which do not have a university because of lack of students, for example, Garissa University. After what we saw in Garrisa, many parents might fear to send their children very far away. We have to ensure that while we deal with the issue of land, we always protect our institutions of higher learning. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I support.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for this opportunity. I rise to support the amendments by Sen. Mohamud. Education is a guaranteed right. Part of guaranteeing that right to education is to ensure accessibility and affordability of quality education to all Kenyans. Part of marginalization in this country was largely a consequence of the alienation when it came to matters of education. Therefore, the Constitution came to redress part of the transgressions of their past policies and framework to ensure that every Kenyan is given equal access to affordable quality education. There is no better way to guarantee a complete development of any young person than to ensure that you are able to offer that person a chance of, not only free primary education or secondary education, but equally for university education. Lately, we live in a world that an undergraduate degree is becoming common. Sooner or later, Masters degree will be a requirement of employment. I have a number of classmates who had the benefit to proceed with their education uninterrupted who are now defending their PhDs or are PhD holders. The most critical component in the transformation that we are looking for in our counties, when counties have institutions of higher learning is that they will be part of the agents of transformation. I visited a lot of countries in my professional life at the KNCHR and even right now as a Senator and, particularly countries in the west have interested me in terms of collaborative actions that universities or faculties of universities or departments have. You will find that there is a school of Government or a certain university that partner with a county or the government to research and improve on part of the cutting edge of flagship projects or governance model and values. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I thank the Mover of this Bill, Sen. Halima. I am beneficiary of education myself. Some of us would not have made it to this House were it not for the chance to go to school. Sen. Halima, having conquered all the odds from Wajir County to get a university education, I know that she has the interest of the students at heart. I would like to, first of all, note that the role of the CUE has been clearly stipulated in terms of being a regulatory body in the accreditation of universities in this country. We have come a long way as a country in that we have established so many universities. In places where do not have universities, we have resident campuses in many towns in this country. One can go to Maralal, Garissa or Wajir counties today and find satellite campus of Mt. Kenya University and others. People there used to travel to Nairobi to get university education. So, we have made great strides in this sector, but we must also not lose focus in terms of admission to universities. It has come to my attention that just the other day, there was a debate going on in social media about a letter that was written by the Chairman of Students Organisation of Nairobi University (SONU). People are really complaining about even the poor grammar that has been used to address the President. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we must not lose focus on the quality and what we are supposed to do in the universities. We should have minimum requirements and adhere to them. This is because we have seen what universities can do. An area like Njoro in Nakuru County has really benefitted by having a university there. This is because we have serious research going on there. Universities are able to do research on the soil and tell how acidic it is and whether fertilizer is needed and the right breed of animals to be reared in a certain area. Therefore, the advantages of having a university in any of the counties should go a long way. In terms of regulation, it is good to incorporate the counties without losing focus on the role of the national Government as stipulated in the Fourth Schedule in terms of standardization or keeping very homogenous standards in terms of admission to universities. We must not decentralize and lose focus in terms of admission to universities. That said, the minimum entry requirements should not be compromised. In 2013, in the run up to the General Elections, many people were turned down because they were told that the degrees they hold are not from accredited universities. I have checked the CUE and found that it has tried to keep up with ICT in terms of posting on their website on the universities which are accredited in the country. However, I would want to urge that as we debate this Bill, the CUE should be more proactive to ensure that this information is available any time and not just for local universities, but even foreign ones. That way, just at the click of a button, somebody will know that the university he or she is joining in India, United Kingdom (UK) or USA is accredited or acceptable to CUE. We will then avoid a scenario of unlawful degrees as it happened with the Presbyterian University just the other day. Some students went through a four year engineering course, but then they were told that it was not recognised. That means that The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. While contributing, Sen. Wangari said in her Statement that she wants to “second” the Bill. She is not seconding, but supporting for the record purposes.
Sen. Wangari, you actually said, you want to second. Could you make the correction for the HANSARD purposes? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not remember saying “second”. For the record, I am not seconding, but supporting this Bill that has been moved by Sen. Halima. I hope that this House will see it fit to be passed into law.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is very exciting to see what two years can do to a young Senator. When I first met my young daughter, Sen. Mohamud, the best we could exchange during debate were her stories of how girls coming from her place ---
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! Nobody is older than the other in this Senate. Let us start from that point. You either put it differently, but you cannot talk about what two years can do to a Senator. All of us have been here for two years.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I did not mean age of being in this House, but chronological age. At that time, it was very exciting when I would talk with her and she could tell me how a girl coming from Wajir was coming to Nairobi looking for a live zebra. She had seen zebra crossings in little books which they had read back home and she thought she would actually see zebras as she crossed the road. You can now see that she has graduated into an excellent legislator. We must congratulate her deep down from our hearts. If one wants to understand the depth of thought in this Amendment Bill, they should recall what happens in the USA presidential debate. One of the cardinal points that was usually put to the candidates was the understanding and planning for the country on matters of research and technology. Depending on how a candidate responds to this, he starts capturing the imagination of the country that he has what it takes to move USA beyond the cutting age of technology. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, universities are the seats of research, innovation and technology. Therefore, I laud the Member because today we are creating a legal structure that can then create the interface between county governments and CUE. This has been so loudly absent to the extent that even where it was obvious that county governments should work in support with either a university college or an existing university, decisions made had no legal basis. The second arm to what she is trying to do is to deliberately create a responsibility for CUE by ensuring that they report to Parliament for the purposes of oversight. I further congratulate the Member by reminding her that if she recalls in 2013, I moved a Motion that was intended to establish a university in every county. To show her that she is moving to the right direction, allow me to remind her that by virtue of that Motion, I received a national award for that wave of thought. I believe this year she will be the recipient of the national award for exemplary legislation. I, therefore, take my Motion as a precursor to this great idea. I believe we will move this matter even further. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is befitting at this time for me to share with this House the story of success of the university city of Kakamega. Around 13 years ago, Kakamega was a little provincial headquarters, a forgotten market that had no economic basis. As soon as the university landed there, it has spurred the economic potential of Kakamega The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to, first, presume that I am a messenger of the President of Kenya? Secondly, is the Senator aware that there is an established mode of communication in this country and if he has a message to His Excellency the President, I am sure he can do so? Recently the President was in Kakamega County to bail out Mumias Sugar Factory and I saw the Senator receiving the cheque and smiling. He should have conveyed that message to the President in person.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I hope you are holding my time.
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you only have two minutes. I will hold your time.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am sorry if I sounded sarcastic in any way, but that is what I meant. However, now that the good Senator has invited me on camera---
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! You are completely out of order. Sen. Wamatangi has told you that you cannot possibly use him as a messenger. Since he is your colleague Senator, I rule that you are completely out of order. Could you proceed with the two minutes that I have allowed you? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will pursue that further, but I have accepted the invitation. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wanted to thank the Governor for having supported the university in putting up hostels. I urge him that in his budget, he should spend – now that the structure is being established – more money at the university. Finally, I urge Kakamega County Government to quickly establish a university at Lugari by converting Lugari Boys High School into a constituent college. We will know what to do to the rest of the boys there. Another university should be established at Mumias by converting Booker Academy into a constituent college. Finally, another university should be established at Ikolomani by converting Eregi Teachers Training College into a constituent college. That will make it easy for children of the poor who cannot travel all the way from Likuyani to Kakamega and all the way from Yala to Kakamega because the distances are vast. Therefore, we need to spread universities that will be branches of Masinde Muliro University of Science and Technology (MMUST) so that our children have access to quality education. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with all these words, I thank you and beg to support.
Thank you, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. Sen. Karaba appears not to be ready. Yes, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir,---
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first, I thank Sen. Mohamud for bringing this Bill. During the passing of the Universities Act in 2012, the Senate was not in place. At the signing of the Universities Act, counties were not in place. Therefore, the proposal to synchronise the functions of the CUE with the counties and the Senate which were not in existence as they are today is laudable. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I was perusing the Universities Act and I realised that the person who was responsible for this particular Act was the last Minister for Education before the last election. That was the late Sen. Mutula Kilonzo. Therefore, there is wisdom in having Clause 26 which Sen. Mohamud seeks to amend in the proposed Bill and I will highlight it. There is a good reason Sen. Mohamud proposed this. Some Senators might have been under the impression that universities that we want to set up under the law will be in every county. I want to read the Clause so that we can understand where Sen. Mohamud is coming from. It states that:- “The commission shall ensure the establishment of public universities in each of the counties giving priority to counties that do not have universities immediately after following the coming into force of this Act.” Therefore, counties like Wajir where Sen. Mohamud hails from have been given priority under Clause 26 in terms of setting up universities.
The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker, for allowing me to also contribute in support of this Bill, which has been moved by none other than my Vice-Chair, Sen. Halima, who is very competent in these affairs. She came up with this Amendment Bill when we realized that there was need to have universities spread out in the country. We felt that this necessity was going to lead to the establishment of, at least, one university in every county, so that we can make university education accessible to the majority of the intelligent boys and girls in our country. Madam Temporary Speaker, it is important to note that universities all over the country and world are elite centres or centres of intellectuals, where students meet, study and do research. They come up with very many things which are inconsistent with the systems in the world. It is in the universities where several researches are done, which can even lead to desertification or cloud seeding, particularly if the university is in a dry area. They also do research related to medicine, vehicles, highways and so on. So, this is the last level of any academic structure in a country. By having some counties without the universities it, therefore, means that we are trying to marginalize or prevent them from advancement. To me, this is a crime in society. We should, therefore, encourage the establishment of the standard universities per
The class system starts when most of us go to the universities. We talk about haves and and have not. It is the universities who set that structure. Those who go to the university and study various courses will end up being employees of companies and hence achieve self enhancement and advancement. It is, therefore, important that we stress particularly university education in our country. During my time at the university, the University of Nairobi was the only one in the 1970s. Since then we have had mushrooming of quite a number of universities. We now have more than 70 universities in the country. We would not only like to have more than 70 universities, but also well distributed universities in the country. We should have universities in Garissa, Wajir, Mandera and even Turkana. What is important to note is that the infrastructure should be established in those areas to attract investors. When that happens, people can move to those universities as students. As they do so, they will also be seen as labour force in the neighbourhood of that university. What we are trying to discuss in this Bill, therefore, is an initiative where every other region in this country will claim to have a university which will be training its cadre of human beings, which is intelligent and can be used by the society to develop the ideas in that locality. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
You have 50 seconds.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to support.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to support this Bill and congratulate Sen. Halima for bringing up this amendment which promotes the youth of this country who she represents. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. Karaba, what is your intervention or it is a mistake? You have logged in for an intervention.
Madam Temporary Speaker, it is a mistake.
Okay, proceed Sen. Ndiema.
Madam Temporary Speaker, education is no longer a luxury because for most employment opportunities right now, the minimum qualification is a degree. It is no longer a Form Four certificate as it used to be. Even to be a teller in the bank, that is issuing money and counting money, you must have a degree. I do not agree with it because I do not understand why someone who is issuing money should have a degree. Establishment of a university in a particular location does, not only confer education opportunities to the citizens in that area, but from the experience we have seen, where it has been established, it has other spillover effects. It has the effect of creating employment at all levels for the residents of that area and also from outside. It has the effect of spurring economic growth in terms of markets for goods and services. In addition, it is also a way of providing training for public servants as they enter the job and even those who are already employed. Madam Temporary Speaker, today, there is a lot of resistance by public servants to be deployed to the areas where there are no universities. This is because most of them want to advance their education because advancements in their schemes of service is a requirement. They must have a higher qualification than the one they entered with. Most civil servants who are posted to those areas are disadvantaged because they cannot progress in the job because of lack of educational facilities to upgrade their skills and knowledge. I like this Bill because it seeks to involve counties in higher education decisions. While higher education under the Fourth Schedule is still a function of the national Government, the Constitution also provides for collaboration in certain areas. There are certain facilities or functions within sub-functions that can best be performed by the county government. I have in mind the issue of land; most land that is available in our counties is owned by the county governments and not the national Government. Therefore, involving the county governments will make it easier for them to get land to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. Ndiema, you have three minutes.
Madam Temporary Speaker, we should also have collaboration between our universities and other world class universities elsewhere. The CUE is not doing much in this area. We want degrees from our universities to be recognized not only here, but elsewhere, so that our youth can be trained elsewhere. We have had so many engagements with contractors in this country like the railway, oil drilling and so forth. What technology are they transferring to our people? I would imagine that as we sign The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Your time is up, Senator!
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.
Please proceed, Sen. Ong’era.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to make contribution to this Bill. From the outset, like my fellow Senators, I would like to thank Sen. Halima for bringing this timely and important Bill that tries to devolve higher learning education to the counties. We are aware that under the Fourth Schedule, education is one of the areas that were not to the county governments. Therefore, there has been a disconnection in how to improve education facilities in the counties. As we know now, the world has advanced and we are in the new age. Because of the improvement in technology, science, economics and advancement in socioeconomic issues, university education has become a very important tool in our lives. It is no longer a tool that is for the benefit of the rich or the middle class. University education is very important in the roles of many office bearers, including political offices. I believe that even the Members of the County Assemblies (MCAs) and the Members of Parliament should now have university degrees. They are able to use it in interrogating issues that come up on the floor of the House. Therefore, having universities in all the counties will be a big benefit for this nation. However, I hope that as we support this Bill, we are not going to introduce an aspect of tribalism in the universities. As Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. said earlier, as we establish university in every county, we must safeguard against ethnic based universities. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Senators! This Bill has generated a lot of interest. I presume that it will be in the Order Paper tomorrow for those who have not gotten an opportunity to contribute.
I have the following communication to make:- As you may recall, the issue of the closure of Garissa TTC has generated a lot of interest in this House, with numerous concerns being raised on the education crisis in Garissa, Wajir and Mandera counties. Hon. Senators, you may also recall that arising from the numerous concerns, on 1st July, 2015, I directed that the Cabinet Secretaries (CSs) in the Ministries of Education, Science and Technology and Interior and Coordination of National Government be invited to come and address the various concerns at the meeting of the standing Committee of Education, where all Senators were invited. Consequently and upon invitation, the two Cabinet Secretaries (CSs) have confirmed that they will attend a consultative meeting organized by the standing Committee on Education to discuss the closure of Garissa TTC and the education and security crisis in the north eastern region. This meeting has been confirmed for tomorrow, Wednesday, 22nd July, 2015 at 10 a.m. in this Chamber. I would like to urge all of you to plan to attend the consultative meeting to deliberate on this very important matter.
Hon. Senators, it is now 6:30 p.m. and we must interrupt the business and proceedings of the House. The House is hereby adjourned until tomorrow, 22nd July, 2015 at 2:30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6:30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.