Mr. Speaker, Sir, before I move on to lay Papers, allow me, on a point of order, to draw the attention of the Chair that during the tenure of this Second Senate, the first Senator to die while we are in session is former Senator Julius Muthamia, the first Senator for Meru County. He was also an Assistant Minister. I do not know whether the Chair will allow us to respect him by according him a minute of silence before we transact business.
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. The practice of this House is to discourage ambushes. This may be a very sad ambush. I can only act when I have verified the veracity of your assertions.
He is in the obituaries!
You also know that newspapers are not reliable sources of information.
Indeed, Mr. Speaker, Sir. However, just as you have correctly said about ambushes, death really ambushes people. We have been very busy both in the normal media and in social media communicating with Hon. Gitobu Imanyara and all the prominent leaders from Meru County. We have been sending condolences to the family. However, I stand guided.
You are so guided. Proceed on with the matter before us. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate today, Thursday, 8th October, 2015:- Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Operations of Kilifi County Assembly for the year ended 30th June 2014; Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of County Government of Taita Taveta for the sixteen (16) months period ended 30th June 2014. Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of County Government of Bomet for the sixteen (16) months period ended 30th June 2014.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Thursday, 8th October, 2015. Report of the Inter-Parliamentary Union’s Advisory Mission to Kenya in July 2015 on a Framework to implement the Constitutional provision of the two-thirds gender rule.
Is Sen. Nabwala here? Chairperson of the Committee on Delegated Legislation? Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, which Papers did you lay on the Table?
I have laid the one on Taita-Taveta---
Use the nomenclature as listed on the Order Paper.
I have laid the Papers listed under item “c”, “d” and “e”.
Okay. Proceed, Sen. Kagwe. REPORT ON THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON INFORMATION AND TECHNOLOGY ON THE COUNTY OVERSIGHT AND NETWORKING ENGAGEMENTS IN VARIOUS COUNTIES
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate today, Thursday, 8th October, 2015. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today Thursday, 8th October, 2015. Address by His Excellency (Dr.) Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete, the President of the Republic of Tanzania to the Parliament of the Republic of Kenya.
Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.25(3), the Thanks of the Senate be recorded for the address to Parliament by the President of the United Republic of Tanzania delivered on Tuesday, 6th October, 2015.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, yesterday, I informed the House that due to the fact that there were a lot of pending and unanswered statements, we were to call the Cabinet Secretary for Health today morning. I now report that the Cabinet Secretary (CS) was here this morning and we had a very lengthy two and a half hour deliberations. According to me and my Committee, it The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Kuti. This is a House of procedures. Under what order are you giving that information?
Under Statements. Mr. Speaker, Sir. I was just briefing the House but I also have statements to give. There are several of them. I wanted to give as preamble to the fact that I have several pending statements from previous requests by the House and not just one.
Then you will have to wait for the listed ones to be exhausted because we must also allocate time. It is not just a matter of your own presence. You may wish to learn to delegate. Majority Leader, proceed to Statement “a”. BUSINESS FOR THE WEEK COMMENCING TUESDAY,13TH OCTOBER, 2015
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise under Standing Order No.45 to issue the Statement on the business for next week commencing Tuesday, 13th October, 2015. On Tuesday, Mr. Speaker, Sir, we shall have a meeting of the Rules and Business Committee (RBC) at 12 noon on 13th October, 2015 to schedule the business of the week. Subject to that meeting, the Senate is expected to debate Bills which are in Second Reading and Committee stage including the following Bills: 1. The Climate Change Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 1 of 2014). 2. The Tobacco Control Regulations. 3. The County Early Childhood Education Bill (Senate Bill No. 32 of 2014). 4. The Universities (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No. 3 of 2014). 5. The Public Appointments County Assembly Approval Bill (Senate Bill No. 20 of 2014). 6. The County Assembly Services Bill (Senate Bill No. 27 of 2014). 7. The Parliamentary Powers and Privileges Bill (Senate Bill No. 15 of 2014). On Wednesday, 14th October, 2015, the Senate will continue with the business that will not be concluded during Tuesday’s sitting, especially in giving priority to the Bills in the Second Reading and Committee of the Whole. Any other business will be as directed and approved by the RBC. On Thursday, 15th October, 2015, the Senate will consider Bills that will be scheduled by the RBC. As I end, for the last two weeks, we have been requesting hon. Members to give the Senate a bit of attention especially because we have a backlog of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Let us deal with the first one, first.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I do not know how the order of priority or the listing of this is concerned because yesterday, the next Bill which should have been discussed during Second Reading at conclusion yesterday was the County Attorney Bill. I expected that when the Leader of Majority was giving a report on what is to be done next week, the County Attorney Bill, having been the next yesterday, would feature somewhere at the top so that we begin debating it on Tuesday. This Bill has been pending for quite some time but as it is now, it is not even mentioned in the Senate Majority Leader’s Statement. Yesterday, when we completed The HIV and AIDS Prevention Control and Management (Amendment) Bill, the Bill was next. If the proceedings had continued for another five minutes, I would have began moving that Bill yesterday. But now for next week ---
Order, Senator. You have put your case and I am sure the Majority Leader and other Members of the RBC have heard you. We will definitely prioritize.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Leader of the Majority made an appeal to Senators to pay greater attention to the business of the House. Yesterday, the Chairman of the Health Committee, Dr. Kuti, gave notice of a meeting with the Cabinet Secretary (CS) of Health this morning. That was a very important meeting because Members of this House have expressed concerns about the management of the health sector. This was a tremendous opportunity for them to interrogate the CS. I attended that meeting and it was very disappointing that even Members of the Committee on Health did not attend the meeting. Only a few did. I appeal to fellow Senators that this is important, particularly the health sector which is one of the sectors that has been extensively devolved. It is one of the sectors that we oversight directly. I want to support the appeal made by the Senate Majority Leader that it is our duty to attend to the business of the Senate. Let us try as much as possible to pay greater The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
I am sure, Members, you have heard. What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to seek guidance from the Chair in my capacity as the Chairperson of the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (CPAIC)---
Order! I will come to you if it is on that matter.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is not that one; it is a different one. The one I saw you over is different from the one I am prosecuting.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as my colleagues, Senators, would have noticed, I have painstakingly been attempting to ensure that all the Reports of CPAIC come before this House timeously so that we can look at them. It has come as a great shock to me that while coming from the bank---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was saying that I have been under a lot of pressure from colleague Senators; they want to see the reports of the Auditor-General concerning their counties tabled in this House. I have used a lot of energy and effort to have those reports pushed to come before the House. I was shocked today on my way from the Cooperative Bank, Parliament Road, when I was confronted by a member of the public who told me that he did not wish to disclose his name but he said that he comes from Machakos County. He gave me two copies:- First, the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the County Government of Machakos that was signed by the Auditor-General on 8th July, 2015. Secondly, he also gave me a copy of the Auditor-General on the Financial operations of Machakos County Executive that was signed by the Auditor-General, Mr. Edward Ouko, on 19th May, 2015. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the only way these documents can go to the public domain is after we have tabled them here. I have been under a lot of pressure from many Senators and I am at a loss to explain how a document that was signed way back in May has not been brought for tabling and is now in the hands of members of the public. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Members! Just bring those documents. Even as I check on the authenticity of the documents, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I will not be of much help to you. It is not the business of the Chairpersons of this House to be plucking things from thin air, the streets and from encounters of back transactions. Therefore, this is inadmissible especially when we have such a close constitutional relationship with that office. What you need to do is to summon the Auditor-General so that he can give you an explanation. From the interaction with him, you can advise the House. You are better placed than anybody else in this House to do so. Those are my directives.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am so guided.
As far as I am concerned, these are just pieces of paper you have collected on the streets. Let us proceed with Statement (b).
Order, Professor! You are not on Statement (b). It was sought by Sen. Wetangula and the response should be from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations.
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
There is a reason why we publish a document known as the Order Paper. DEMONSTRATIONS ALONG HARAMBEE AVENUE AND PARLIAMENT ROAD
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am not able to issue Statement (b) this afternoon. However, as I said earlier, we have summoned the Cabinet Secretary to appear before the Whole House on Tuesday. I have asked him to address all outstanding issues that have been raised in this House. I hope that Members will take this opportunity to do so.
Which Cabinet Secretary?
The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and Coordination of National Government. I only deal with internal security.
Let us proceed with Statement (c). What is it, Sen. Wetangula? I hoped you would do so but you are reluctant. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. If the distinguished Senator for Garissa wants the Cabinet Secretary to come here, it would be a good idea for the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations to pull out all requested Statements relating to security and apprise Members who have requested for them and those who have had a rider on them so that we can all interrogate the Cabinet Secretary on those pending statements.
What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Did you hear Sen. Haji say that he is only concerned with matters of internal security? Could the Chairperson be guided to know that his mandate also covers foreign affairs and defence?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, that Statement required from me deals with the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and Coordination of National Government. It does not deal with any other Ministry. So, that answers him very well. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, Sir, ---
Indeed, I agree with the Chairperson.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. To answer the Leader of Minority, when I responded, I said that all the Statements that are outstanding with the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and Coordination of National Government will be answered by him on Tuesday. Hon. Members, please, be aware and avail yourself on that day.
Tuesday at what time?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the morning at 9.00 a.m. or 10 a.m.
Let us agree that the meeting will commence on Tuesday at 10.00 a.m.
Obliged, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Many people use traffic as an excuse for being late in meetings. So, we shall do it at 10.00 a.m.
Order, Senator! They still use traffic to come early. Let us proceed with Statement (c). ACCESS TO FINANCES BY THE YOUTH, WOMEN AND PWDS TO EXECUTE TENDERS WON
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have a response to a Statement that was sought by Sen. Chelule. I have discussed with her and she is comfortable with me going through the response despite the fact that the material is quite bulky. I have promised her that I will have them photocopied and make sure that she has the documents by Tuesday. Therefore, if there are any queries then maybe she can come up with them much later. With your confirmation, I will proceed.
Proceed to deliver the Statement?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, to deal with the Statement---
What about the bulky document?
I will give it to her---
Order! We will not act in vain. The Chair should approach me and not the Member. Use the weekend and photocopy. Let the Member and other Members have the document. The Statement is very important; it is about access to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
The Chairperson or the Vice Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Energy to respond to the Statement (d) on the frequent power blackouts in West Pokot County. FREQUENT POWER BLACKOUTS IN WEST POKOT COUNTY
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on 28th July, 2014, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo had requested for a Statement on the frequent power blackouts in West Pokot County. In this Statement, he wanted to know the following:- 1. The plans the Ministry has put in place to mitigate this problem. 2. When constant power supply will be experienced in West Pokot County. In an effort to make the network supporting supply to this county more robust, flexible and with alternative supplies, the Kenya Power carried out planned outages during the month of August, 2015. The first one was undertaken on 4th August,2015 which lasted eight and a half hours between Kapenguria and Kainuk to replace rotten wooden poles with concrete poles. The Second outage happened on 7th August, 2015 which lasted nine and a half hours between Turkwel and Kainuk to replace 72 wooden rotten poles with concrete ones. The third outage happened on 8th August, 2015 and lasted more than ten hours between Turkwel and Kainuk to create new feeder lines. The fourth outage happened in Kapenguria Town and lasted four hours, and it was to install new transformers to address those overloaded. The fifth outage happened on 11th August, 2015 and lasted eight and a half hours between Turkwel and Kainuk to interconnect with new line to create flexibility. The sixth outage happened on 13th August, 2015 and lasted seven hours between Turkwel and Kainuk to replace wooden poles with concrete ones. The seventh outage happened between Eldoret and Kitale interconnection line on 14th August, 2015 for 11 hours to replace wooden poles on the 33 kV line. The eighth one in Kapenguria Town happened on 17th August, 2015 and lasted for nine hours and 50 minutes to install new transformers and protection switch gears. The ninth outage happened on 22nd August on Kitale-Eldoret line and lasted for 14 hours. This was to service the breakers and the main transformer. The last outage happened on 24th August on the Webuye- Kitale line and lasted for 13 hours to replace rotten poles. This happened to make sure that we improve the supply of power to West Pokot County. After these activities were undertaken, supply has improved. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Chairman for the detailed answers to the queries that I raised in this House. I want to remind the Chairman that this question was raised on 28th July, 2015. He is addressing answers from August, 2015. My greatest concern was that West Pokot County has been experiencing frequent power blackouts until 28th July, 2015. The table he has given us addresses the situation from 4th to 24th August 2015. It shows that West Pokot County has experienced power blackouts during that period. I raised my request before that period. For as long as I can remember, up to 28th July, 2015, there were blackouts in my county. He needs to clarify this. When the Chairman talks about rotten poles being replaced with concrete poles, could he clarify who is supplying the concrete poles? There is a serious misconception in the villages where Members of the National Assembly are in every village, particularly in Turkana and West Pokot counties, pretending to be the ones supplying those concrete poles. I want the Chair to tell us who is manufacturing the concrete poles and which Member of Parliament (MP) claims to be supplying them. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also want the Chairman to clarify because after he talked about future plans, he gave us future plans and replacement of wooden poles from Makutano- Alale up to item number seven. He said that all the above projects will guarantee alternative and reliable sources with inbuilt flexibility for the county. I want a specific date when they will be ready. As at now, the whole sub-county of Pokot North and Kacheliba Constituency does not have power since the world was born and the poles have been in existence. Some have been eaten by termites as the Chairman has confessed.
Order, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo. What were the wooden poles doing if not supplying electricity?
They have been exhibits for as long as I can remember. There are poles but no lines. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Do we have other Members seeking clarifications?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the instability of power supply, particularly in the western parts of this country from Busia, Siaya, Kakamega, Bungoma, Trans Nzoia, West Pokot to Turkana is very frequent. Sometimes, we get blackouts for as long as ten hours or a whole day and these have caused a lot of havoc to businesses and home appliances and inconveniences to schools. Since they were connected to the grid, they gave away their generators and rely on grid power for students to study and do their laboratory tests and so on. In his response, the distinguished Senator from Taita-Taveta said they are replacing wooden poles with concrete poles. Could he tell this House whether a replacement of wooden poles with concrete poles on its own can strengthen and create reliability in power supply? Those are just transmission mechanisms. There cannot be a scientific reason for telling the House that, that will give stability to power. But more importantly, could he tell the House when all schools and institutions of learning will be connected to the national grid in all these areas that I have cited and indeed, the rest of the country? More importantly, what clear measures are being taken to stabilize power supply so that the blackouts that we get so regularly become a thing of the past?
Order, Senators! Since I see a lot of interest, I will allow each of you to seek one clarification. So, prioritise whatever clarifications you have. I will follow the order as I see here.
Mr. Speaker Sir, a very young boy told me the other day that the only issue he finds in Kenya is that where he comes from when you switch on the lights, you actually expect that they will go on. In Kenya, you pray that the lights will go on. That is a very bad reputation for an emerging economy. I will follow up on what Sen. Wetangula has just asked. How will we ensure that we have power that we can rely on for all sorts of things? In line with that, as we head towards the El Nino rains, there is a tendency during the rainy seasons for power blackouts to become worse. What preparation is the Kenya Power undertaking to ensure that they remove trees near power lines, so that at the advent of the El Nino rains, we do not have a permanent blackout across the city and indeed, the country?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think the counties that are the source of power, as the Senator for West Pokot said, should not actually be suffering in the manner that the Senator has explained. For a country that is now considering among other things nuclear The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order! You have made your case.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is true that power outages are very common in the western region. Trans Nzoia too is very affected and the situation is worse during the harvest season. It causes a lot of losses to farmers in terms drying maize seed and commercial maize. The National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB) and the Kenya Seed Company (KSC) cannot dry the maize. Could the Chairman confirm that in this season of El Nino, there will be no power outages or rationing of power shall be limited in Trans Nzoia for the purpose of food security?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, first, I want to give credit to the Kenya Power Company because wherever you go in the rural areas you find some work going on. I think it is good to give credit where it is due.
Order, Senator! But they are saying that even where there are power lines, there is no power. How do you give credit there?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, even taking the lines there is an effort which we must acknowledge. Having said that, in Kitui County, it is normal that we run without power for a very long time. Every Thursday of the week, we do not have power. I do not know what happens. In fact, I thought that it is only in Kitui that we have blackouts. I am so encouraged to hear that other areas are like Kitui County. When will the Kenya Power Company ensure that Kenya as a whole is connected to the national grid? Secondly, when will they ensure that this power is real, because at the moment, it is not real? There are places without wires and no power. In Kitui, we have blackouts every Thursday and whenever the power goes off at night, we are sure to get it back the following day.
Order! Sen. Musila, I hear you and by virtual of your age, I can understand. But I want to make it absolutely clear that we are not here to seek favors from state agencies. We are here to demand services to be given to the people of the Republic of Kenya. So, we cannot reward efforts that yield nothing and you cannot get encouraged because your situation is worse than others.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I believe in acknowledging the work of anybody. I think that even taking wires is work done. If you go to the remotest parts of Kitui County, you will find wires even if they are not working. That is an effort.
What are those wires for?
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I disagree with what my senior, Sen. Musila, has said. The wires that he is talking about are meant to benefit the contractor and the officer who is giving it. I am saying this because deals from--- In the former Hulugho District, only five kilometres from the Kenya-Somali border, we have the military, police, Deputy County Commissioner and all Government offices. A huge power house was The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I do not know what has become of the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations. He has just made very devastatingly incorrect statements here. I am sure even the Leader of the Minority will not support it. I do not think it is right for a Senator – I do not even think that it is honourable in my view – to say that the Government is lying. That statement is exaggerated. May be there could be factors which have not been presented appropriately. However, to say that the Government is lying is an attack on Government. I do not think it should go unchallenged.
What is it, Sen. Haji, former Minister?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is no power in this place ---
Order, Sen. Haji! Just assume your seat. Relax and now enjoy the microphone.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we cannot be gagged for saying the truth. It is daytime and the Government is lying in broad daylight by giving that statement. I want an explanation as to why 10 years down the road, there is no electricity in Hulugho, and yet a huge power house was constructed and poles laid.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the distinguished Senator for Tharaka-Nithi to purport to gag an honourable Senator, first and foremost, as a representative of Garissa County Government and its people and not as the Chairperson as a Committee? That is just an addendum to his portfolio in this House. Is it in order for the Senate Majority Leader to purport to superintend and police Members of this House in representing their constituencies and airing views that help their people?
Order, Senators! I heard the Members very clearly. The Senate Majority Leader qualified his statement by saying, “in his view”. That view has been disapproved by the House. It is not anywhere near the majoritarian view, neither is it minority. It is the minority of the minority. I think the mood of the House and the country is such that these are people’s representatives and so they come here and describe the situation that obtains on the ground. The minimum that the Senate Majority Leader would do for us is to promise to do something about it, particularly when these issues are The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. Haji senior, who happens to be with Sen. Musila, has conceded that he has seen the wires, just like Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo who was Minister in the former Ministry of Roads and Public Works has seen the wooden poles. The Senate Minority Leader has confirmed that even if you change the wooden poles to concrete ones and they are conveying nothing, it is of no consequence. The Government policy is well stated that all primary schools should be connected with electricity, whether on grid or off grid. The Senate Majority Leader and I represent counties that need that electricity like yesterday. So, this is a very important issue. Let the Vice Chairperson give us a firm undertaking. Secondly, remember that as we increase electricity production, we will bring down the cost of electricity which makes our country more competitive and attracts investments. I think all of us agree that we need it like yesterday.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank Members for the interest that they have shown in this subject. I might not have all the answers now. I will deliver the ones that I have, seek appropriate answers for those that I do not have and deliver them to the House at the appropriate time. Let me start with the clarification from Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo who said that he asked the question on 28th July, 2015 and that I gave the breakdown on 28th August, 2015. As I said after I gave the details, these interventions have improved the stability of power supply. I have not contradicted myself by saying there are no interruptions. All I said is that since this question was asked, they have undertaken some activities in the month of August that have stabilized power supply. I went further to say the programmes that they have and even gave the time limits because he had asked, when. I think I said that they are doing one in December, 2017, another one this month and the other in March, 2016. I gave the dates in terms of the future undertakings. Mr. Speaker, Sir, in terms of who is the supplier of the concrete poles, I do not have the answer now, but I seek to get the answer and supply to the House later. I would be lying to say that I know who is supplying them. There could be several suppliers. I do not know. I will furnish the House with the details.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The word “lie” has been used several times when Sen. Haji was contributing and now the Vice Chairperson of the Committee on Energy. Is it now accepted to be parliamentary?
It is not. Use the word “mislead”.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. All I said is that, if I give any answer, I will be misleading the House. So, I said I will find out who the suppliers are.
On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, Sir. You just saw how clear we are about this matter because it is very serious. The issue of lying or not lying seems to be prevailing in the argument. Would I be in order to say that instead of saying the Government is lying, we say the Government is failing to complete the projects?
Hon. Ethuro): You are completely out of order. Those are two different things. Proceed, Chairman. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. In terms of the future power supply stability in West Pokot County, I have given elaborate programmes that will stabilize the power supply. I would request the distinguished Senator that if in future the power supply is not stabilized, then I am more than willing to talk to the Kenya Power and the Ministry of Energy and Petroleum to make sure that power supply, not only to West Pokot but the entire country is stabilized in terms of supply. The Senate Minority Leader had stated that power supply in Western Kenya is unstable. I would want to go to the Ministry to be able to give a more detailed answer to this because it is a new question. Therefore, I need some time to do that. In terms of reliability of power especially when he said the wooden poles and the concrete ones will not improve supply of power, what happens with the wooden poles is that when termites eat the poles, they fall and interfere with the power supply. In terms of the schools being supplied with power, the Government’s undertaking was that by the end of this financial year, all schools will be connected and the ones off the grid will be supplied with solar panels to make sure all learning institutions are supplied with power. From my own county and the ones I have visited, about 80 per cent to 90 per cent of schools that are on the grid have been connected. It is only the ones who are off the grid that the Government is yet to do that. Sen. Kagwe had asked that the Government had an ambitious plan of producing 5,000 megawatts so that it can improve the reliability of power supply. I think the programme is on course. As they stated, they have been able to put 370 megawatts to the national grid which has improved the reliability of power supply. There are ongoing plans to ensure Olkaria I and II and other initiatives to improve, especially the Lamu Coal Plant which has delayed due to some other problems, but the Government is on plan and in 40 months, they were to give us 5,000 megawatts. You have seen some improvement and we need them to do more but we are seeing some gradual improvement when it comes to reliability.
Hon. Ethuro): Order! Sen. Kagwe talked about the preparedness for the El Nino rains which I think is extremely crucial.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is very important. Apart from them undertaking planned outages to make sure that they have planned well in advance in terms of the forthcoming El Nino rains, it is important is that also the users should help Kenya Power reporting any incidents. For example, if I have a tree which is almost falling on a line, I should be report to Kenya Power so that they can cut it because it is during the rains that many trees fall on the lines and, therefore, interrupt power supply. One of the biggest problems in Kenya is that most of our power supply redistribution is overhead lines. They are now undertaking underground power supply which will greatly improve the liability and supply. They have plans to start with the major towns. When that happens, I will be able to give that information to the House. Sen. Ndiema’s question is almost the same on the issue of the rainy season, the preparedness of the power and lighting in terms of giving stability to power supply. This is the same question as what Sen. Kagwe had asked. I will report back to them when they give me more information on the preparedness on the forthcoming El Nino rains. I will make that information available to the Members. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to seek your guidance. I had approached you, if you could use your discretion to allow me a few minutes to make a very short Statement under Standing Order No. 45 (2) (a), on an issue of general topical concern namely; the demise of the Hon. Sen. Julius Muthamia, former Senator for Meru county.
Hon. Ethuro): Proceed.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the night of Tuesday, 6th October, 2015, the people of Meru County, the larger Ameru Community and the nation of Kenya lost one of the most illustrious sons of this country in the early years of Independence. Sen. Julius Muthamia passed away quietly in his sleep on Tuesday night. The news has come at a time when this Senate and the country is redefining itself and trying to appreciate the role of the Senate in a devolved system of government. Sen. Julius Muthamia was known to me personally. He remained very active in public life, even after the first Senate was dissolved. He was the Chairman of Meru Central Njuri Ncheke leadership, but he was also part of the Meru leaders’ forum, an informal group of leaders that used to support the politics and the socio-economic development issues not only in Meru County but also the larger Ameru Community. Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. Muthamia was a unifier, and even at the time of his demise, he was busy putting together different political camps that were emerging within Meru County. He was very moderate and a Godly man. In fact, during the recess, he had The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had asked to be allowed to request for a statement under Standing Order No.45(2)(a). Pursuant to Standing Order No.45(2)(b), I rise to seek a statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Roads and Transportation regarding the status of the construction of the Kakamega-Kaburengu- Webuye Road. In the Statement, the Chairperson should tell us the following:- 1. When the construction works on this section of the road were officially started and when the project was supposed to be completed? 2. What percentage of the works has so far been completed to date and how much money the contractor has so far been paid? 3. What the original budgetary cost of the project was? 4. The reason for the delay in the completion of the project and indicate when the project will be completed. Mr. Speaker, Sir, before I do the next one, maybe you want to ask the Chairperson to indicate when he will issue it.
Where is the Chairperson of the Committee on Roads and Transportation? What is it, Sen. Wetangula?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I enjoin the distinguished Senator for Kakamega and ride on that request. In answering, could the Chairperson tell us whether it is, in fact, true that the contractor who was contracted to construct this critical road that is part of the Isebania-Migori-Kisii- Kisumu-Kakamega-Kitale-Pokot-Lodwar-South Sudan Highway has abandoned the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not the Chairperson, but I will raise this matter with the Chairperson of the Committee and report back in two weeks because the issues at hand are weighty.
What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise under Standing Order No.45---
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! I will allow you to speak afterwards, let me first make one communication.
Hon. Senators, I have a Message from the Kiambu County Assembly on the County Library Services Bill (Senate Bill No.6 of 2015). I wish to report to the Senate that pursuant to Standing Order No.42(1), (3) and (4), I received the following Message from the Speaker of Kiambu County Assembly regarding proposed amendments to the County Library Services Bill (Senate Bill No.6 of 2015). Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.52 of the Kiambu County Assembly Standing Orders, I hereby convey the following Message to the Senate:- Whereas the County Library Services Bill (Senate Bill No.6 of 2015), a Bill concerning county governments was introduced in the Senate on Tuesday 30th June, 2015 subsequent to which by way of a letter, the Senate sought the views of the county assemblies on the said Bill. And whereas the Kiambu County Assembly having deliberated on the contents of the Bill as published by way of a resolution, led on Wednesday 6th September, 2015, adopted a position on the Bill for which a detailed memorandum is herein included. Now therefore, in accordance with the provisions of Articles 96(1) and 118(1)(b) of the Constitution and Standing Order No.52 of the Kiambu County Assembly Standing Orders, I hereby convey the said decision of the assembly, the effect of which is to beseech the Senate to reflect on the views of the assembly in its consideration and passage of the Bill. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise under Standing Order No.45(2)(a) which provides that a Senator may make a brief statement on a matter of general topic. Corruption in this country is a major concern, not only to the leadership, but the entire country. Therefore, it comes as great news for the world to learn that in Senegal, President Macky Sall has upon receiving directions from the Judiciary, allowed that auctioning of properties belonging to Karim Wade, the son of the former President of Senegal, which include luxury cars, hotels, jewels held in banks and the family home in the City of Dakar. This, the son of the former President has been committed to jail for six years.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, over and above, this President being desirous to deepening and widening good governance in his country, he has also offered that the law of that land be changed so that the presidential term that runs two terms of seven years each, be reduced to two terms of five years each. I laud President Macky Sall and hope that the leadership of this country, especially the Senate and the Council of Governors (CoG) who will produce the future presidents of this county, are watching. I hope they will do the same when the time comes and not go the route of President Nkurunziza, President Museveni and others. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the personal statement that the Senator for Kakamega has given with regards to the action of the Senegalese President is appropriate. We, as Africa, need to share the good policies and celebrate when some of the countries in this continent take actions that are desirous of good governance. Good governance has been the biggest challenge in Africa. When we see leaders in many parts of this continent taking action in a manner with which the Senegalese President has done, I find that The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you gave notice of that statement during a transition process; the Speaker was going out and I was taking over. Under what Standing Order did you stand?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stood under Standing Orders No.45(2)(a) which says that:- “During Statement Hour - (a) a Senator may make a statement on a county issue or on an issue of general topical concern; ” Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, before I spoke, I approached the Speaker, Hon. Ethuro, who gave me a go ahead.
Did the Speaker give you oral authority?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. He did not ask for a written notice.
That cannot be possible because Standing Order No.45(3) says that:- “A Senator who wishes to seek leave to raise a matter under paragraph (2) (a) or (b) shall, before 1.00 p.m., on the day on which the Statement is proposed to be made, hand to the Speaker a written notification of the matter, but the Speaker may refuse to allow the request unless satisfied that the matter may properly be discussed in the Senate.” Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, do you have a written notification?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I cannot contradict the Speaker, Hon. Ethuro.
Order, Senator! This House is guided by rules which are the Standing Orders. Therefore, it does not matter. I am not blaming or doubting you. However, if you wish to proceed under Standing Order No.45(2)(a), that must comply with 45(3) which talks about a written request. As I said, you were on your feet when the Chair was transiting.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you consult the HANSARD, you will find that what precedes the Statement that has been answered by the Chairperson of the Committee on Land and Natural Resources where the Speaker says: “On that matter which you had seen me on, I will give you an opportunity later.”
I heard that, I was here.
That is my case, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, it may be a fait
situation because you have already given your personal statement. Therefore, what I say will not reverse the fact that you have already said whatever you wanted. My point is that it is not procedural. The Speaker cannot have allowed you without having a written request.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have a written document here which I gave him before 1.00 p.m. The only thing I did not do is give him to approve. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Then that is a different situation. When I asked you, you said that you had talked to him orally. The HANSARD will bear me out.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just did not want to give the impression that the Speaker read a statement from me and then signed and okayed because I will be misrepresenting facts. I, therefore, chose to state matters the exact same way they transpired.
The main reason I asked you that is because when you were giving the statement, you mentioned Presidents of two friendly countries. If you check Standing Order No.90, you should not have mentioned names of those two Presidents.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand guided. In accordance with that Standing Order, I wish to recall the names of those two Presidents of friendly countries and rephrase as follows. “I hope the Senators and members of the CoG who when the time come for them to become presidents of this country, they will not learn from the behaviour of some leaders of certain African countries.”
Hon. Senator, could you withdraw the statement that you made earlier.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I withdraw the mention of those two Presidents who on the HANSARD read President Nkurunziza and President Museveni and replace them with the words that I have just said.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to join the two distinguished Senators; Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and Sen. Billow in lauding the conduct of Macky Sall. He is a distinguished young head of State who came to power through a very contested rapturous election, but he is leading the way. Under the African Peer Review Mechanism (APRM), African heads of States should learn a little bit from such shining examples. Unless and until Africa makes it painful for people who consume and perpetuate corruption, this continent will not move. When you look around the continent, we record very handsome Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growths. However, when you go to countries with those GDPs, you see a few billionaires, but the rest of the people are stuck in poverty.
What is your point of order, Sen. (Prof.) Lesan?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I stand under Standing Order No.46, which provides that when a Senator makes a personal statement – like the one that has been made by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale – there should be no debate because no Motion that has been moved in House. Is he, therefore, in order to continue debating this issue?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not debating anything, but joining---
Order, Sen. Wetangula!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I can help you. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order! I have not sought your help yet. Proceed, Sen. Wetangula.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Indeed, the distinguished professor read the wrong Standing Order. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me finish by saying that Africa will be better off if we make corruption difficult and painful. Those who embrace it must pay for it like it has happened in Senegal. Closer home, the other day, every Kenyan read the obscene headlines about the sharing of the late Koinange’s Estate. A proper functioning Government should have quickly moved to inquire how such a massive cache of wealth was acquired in this country because everybody knows---
Order! Sen. Wetangula! We have to end this debate because you are taking advantage and bringing extraneous issues which have nothing to do with the debate. The Koinange Estate should not come in because that is an active matter in court. On what basis can you possible bring in the Koinange Estate into the House? How will you allow the family members to defend themselves if those issues are there? I will not allow that.
Allow me to finish, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
I allow you one minute to conclude.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, obscenities in primitive accumulation of wealth through corruption must be fought from every direction and front. We should not shy away from talking about it when it happens. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I join in lauding the Senegalese President.
Finally, Sen. Kagwe.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Before Sen. Kagwe speaks, I would like the Chair to guide me a little bit. According to how I understand the Standing Orders, the Chair’s attention to the breach of rules by Sen. Wetangula should have been drawn by a Senator. When the Chair – without being invited to note that a wrong has been committed – goes ahead and does what he might attempt to do, it might amount to him participating in debate. You are supposed to control debate.
What are you referring to exactly?
I am referring to when you found that Sen. Wetangula was out of order to veer into---
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, are you suggesting that when, for instance, you breach Standing Order No.90, I should just sit here and watch and not talk about it? Are you suggesting that the Speaker does not listen to debates and what goes on? Otherwise, how do I guard Standing Orders if I do not listen?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, because we are both here, I would like to be guided---
Order! Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. What exactly do you mean when you say that I am participating in the debate? I am sitting here overseeing the debate going on in the House. The purpose of doing that inter alia is to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is not in my habit to disagree or qualify what the Chair has said. However, we need some guidance. Matters of public notoriety or where anybody sitting anywhere can see that something is questionable or wrong cannot be gagged from being aired here. However, I thank you because when you directed that I stop going towards that direction, you did not require me to withdraw or order that the statement be expunged from the record. Given your wide experience in law, I am sure you know that I had not breached any Standing Order.
The point I am making and this will end the debate at the risk of repeating myself is this---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order! I am talking now. The point I am making – it is good to remember that I said this – is that the reason we have due process is to ensure that everybody finds that justice has been done to them; the rich and the poor, those sitting in the Senate and those outside as Kenyan citizens going about their businesses. We talk about corruption. It is a very important issue that we are discussing and most of us abhor it. However, before you claim that somebody is corrupt or they have done something corruptly, it is important that they too are heard. There is a family dispute going on. It has been going on for many years and that is in common knowledge. It is neither for me nor you to decide whether the property was acquired corruptly or not because, then, there will be no due process. When you will be caught in the same situation, you will want the protection of this Chair, so that you are not discussed by people who think that your notoriety is common knowledge. That is why we have due process. I will guard that as jealously as I can because that is the right of every citizen.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Not on the same issue. Sen. Kagwe, proceed.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I laud the new President and caution him. As we praise the action he took, we hope and pray that, at the end of the five years, we will be praising him exactly the same way we are doing now. It is important for the word The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
That is the end of that matter. Next Order.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I wanted to come and see you, but you were kept very busy. So, I did not give you a notice of the matter I wanted to raise. Standing Order 39(2) says: “Business shall be disposed of in the sequence in which it appears in the Order Paper or in such other sequence as the Speaker may, for the convenience of the Senate, direct.” On the basis of that Standing Order, I request the Chair that Order No.11 be deferred. If you see the proceedings of the House Business Committee (RBC), I had requested the RBC to have this Motion discussed without there being too much business in the House to the extent that the Mover of the Motion will now move this important Motion to an empty House. This Motion is about the Constitution. We are seeking the approval of the Senate that we proceed with the amendment of the Kenyan Constitution as promulgated in 2010. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I had been informed that last Tuesday that the Senate had blocked Thursday afternoon for two reasons. One, that all Members can have the opportunity to follow the proceedings of the Committee. Secondly, the members of public can follow through live coverage. Unfortunately, today because of the business, we have spent the time on other businesses. I hope that the Members will be given sufficient notice to understand that this is a very important item to the House so that they prepare, not only to come make their contributions, but will also be present. I do not want to imagine that the fire that we had last time when we formed this Committee is going down. I hope the Senators are still vibrant, focused and committed to ensuring that we take on this process of strengthening devolution, the Senate and Parliament for that matter. I pray that if you will schedule another day, those considerations will be put in place. Otherwise, one will interpret that the faith has gone down. Thank you.
Sen. Orengo, the trouble is that you have opened up a fresh debate which will take another long period.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Chair and I, are very anxious about this Report for many reasons, but we have been preparing to present it. However, I agree with Sen. Orengo who has raised the concerns although this Motion has been on the Order Paper since yesterday. I have yet another concern that Sen. Wako raised which I think has been forgotten. He proposed that this Report be discussed with the Senators before we present it so that we can take them through it and build a consensus. I would hate for us to lose this moment because the ignition is getting more politically charged. This is something we are going to lose in the process of taking long to present the Report to this House. Therefore, other than the concerns raised by Sen. Orengo, I have another concern the Members, even if we move this Motion, have very little knowledge of what it is we are trying to build consensus on their behalf.
So, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., you are also supporting the position taken by Sen. Wako?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Chair of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights was of the view that we, as the Members of the Committee, need to take the Senate through this process so that we can speak by one voice when we come on live television. That is the position we agreed.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Indeed, this is a weighty matter because:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, what Sen. Wako is proposing is basically what we have already done. During our meeting at the Stanley Hotel we went through the whole document and agreed. Nothing much changed after that. We also had a meeting here which was poorly attended. It was the final Kamukunji before the tabling of the Report. Nothing had changed, except the percentage of the resources that will go to the counties. This was also achieved by consensus. I have no fear at all that bipartisanism has not been achieved, because the meeting at the Stanley Hotel was well attended. There were almost 40 Senators and nobody raised a contrary opinion. We have moved to a place where all other views that will be said here during the debate can only enhance the strengthening of the Bill. Should some people have ideas beyond the Stanley Hotel meeting that will be welcome, because you will realize, when we move this Motion that it is not going to the public as a Bill, but as a general suggestion. So, we have room to make amendments ultimately even after collecting signatures. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, what I wanted to allude to is what Sen. Murkomen has said. I do not think it serves any particular purpose for us to have subsidiary meetings, where only 10 or 15 of us will show up. However, I would suggest that we give this debate sufficient time and notice, so that anybody who wants to make a contribution to this Report exhaustively discusses it. I support the recommendation by Sen. Orengo.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me a chance to say something about this issue. I also wish to congratulate those who participated in the preparation of the proposed amendments to our Constitution. I wish to state that I did not attend the meeting that was held at the Stanley Hotel because I was away. Again, when we had a meeting here that was chaired by the Speaker very few Members turned up and we had to adjourn it. We agreed that there would be no need for another meeting before the report is tabled. As far as I know, there are always political parties’ decisions regarding any matter. I am not so sure whether our political party was consulted or even called for that matter. We are going wrong by coming up with issues here and forgetting that there are other factors and important areas of consultation that we need to consider. A Member could bring a Motion that is very good and popular, but he does not go very far with it.
Order, Sen. G.G. Kariuki! I would not normally stop you from debating in this Chamber, but now you are going to the merits of the Motion; whether it is a good Motion or a bad one. We have not reached there. We will get there sooner than later, when finally it is moved by Sen. Murkomen or anybody else from that Select Committee. This would not be the correct forum or time to ventilate on the pros and cons of the Motion. What we are debating right is whether or not it should be moved now or at a future date.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I apologise if I went out of the rail. However, I agree with those who think that we should postpone the Motion. It is very important for all of us to agree on the next stage. Therefore, I support the idea of waiting a little while so that further consultations can be done. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order, Senators! I have listened to the point of order raised by Sen. Orengo. It has raised a lot of interest in the House. I concede that this matter should be taken back to RBC for reallocation. With due consideration, particularly to whether or not, it should be listed alone after the normal preliminaries of the House on any given day or it should come down again, like it is today, on the Order Paper. There is a lot of merit in what you have said. I, therefore, direct that the Order be dropped from the Order Paper for this afternoon. I am doing so also having consulted and listened to Sen. Murkomen who was supposed to move the Motion. He also concedes that maybe that would be the best way to proceed in the circumstances. It is so ordered.
The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Why are people running away?
Order, Sen. Adan! Before we proceed, I have a very short communication to make. You may take your seat.
Hon. Members, I would like to acknowledge the presence in the Public Gallery this afternoon of a visiting delegation of county assembly staff from Turkana County Assembly. The county assembly staffers are here on a one week attachment programme at the parliamentary library and human resources department. Since they are in the Public Gallery, I will not ask them to stand and be recognised because they were not able to be in the Speaker’s Gallery for reasons that are known to them. I hope that the delegation has had a fruitful programme. On behalf of the Senate and my own behalf, I welcome them to the Senate and wish them well for the remainder of their stay and that they will learn from the Senate which is continuing to render its services of human resource development in the counties. I thank you. What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank you for declining to read their names. However, on the same yard stick, the Speaker is not able to see visitors who are in the Public Gallery. He can only see visitors who are in the Speaker’s Gallery. I would you’re your guidance on this. Are we changing tradition? Traditionally, the people who you see are the ones in your Gallery.
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! You know that in this particular case, they ought to have been in the Speaker’s Gallery, but the reason I did not call their names out is because I cannot see them. The Speaker has not yet stopped from recognizing people in the Public Gallery like we always recognise students from various schools when they are in the Public Gallery. What is your point of order, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have been through this road before and I do not think we have learnt much. You were on the Chair last time when this happened. We are just pleading with you that you restore the dignity of the Senate of treating our guests accordingly. This is because we have people who you can see and who you have not recognised. We do not know who they are, but there are people who are supposed to be here. We do not want them to take a message back to their counties that the Chair failed to recognise them when they were here. I plead with you--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order. If you had approached the Deputy Speaker, I would have told you why they are not in the Speaker’s Gallery and you could have understood why. So, I do not think you need to take issue on this matter. It has nothing to do with what transpired last week. As I have told you, these are interns who are already working in the Senate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, but we even recognise interns who work in our Committees. These are future leaders of this Republic and we need to recognise them. Thank you for your understanding.
You are raising pertinent issues and we should discuss them openly and dispassionately. Unless you are saying that nobody in the Public Gallery should be recognised. That would be wrong because when pupils and students come they go to the Public Gallery, partly because they cannot fit in the Speaker’s Gallery. Sometimes it is more than one school which visits us. So, they cannot fit there. They come to learn, we recognise, appreciate and encourage them to learn and go back to their schools and do well. That is the outstanding tradition of this Senate. However, as I said last week, it is not obligatory to recognise people in the Public Gallery because many times, we do not even know that they are there. Therefore, if you go to the Public Gallery and want to be recognised, we have to know that you are there because you cannot see the Public Gallery from where I am sitting. However, to be on the Speaker’s Gallery, you have also to be dressed formally in the same dress code that also pertains to the Chamber. If you are not dressed formally, you cannot be allowed to go there. That is why I said if you had approached the Deputy Speaker, you would have learnt what is going on without anticipating the situation. Again, it must be a learning curve for the staffers from Turkana County who are sitting in the Public Gallery because they know they cannot sit in the Speaker’s Gallery for the reasons that have been explained to them. That is the position.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You have addressed the issue. However, my point of order was whether the hon. Members were in order to raise issues about the same when in your communication you clearly indicated it is for reasons known to them. This debate was unnecessary.
Maybe they were not listening and we must give everybody a chance to speak. You do not want to appear like you are gagging them. Before you came in, we had a debate about gagging Members from saying what they want to say. I do not want to be accused of gagging anybody from doing what they are supposed to do but I have heard you. Proceed, Sen. Adan. SELECT COMMITTEE TO INQUIRE INTO THE POLICY AND LEGISLATION PERTAINING TO THE TREATMENT OF DETAINED PERSONS AND STATE OF CORRECTIONAL INSTITUTIONS IN KENYA
Mr. Deputy Speaker, I wish to move:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Sen. Adan. Are you going to move the Motion?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Move the Motion then.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Let me move the Motion with the following points. First let me say that this Motion is quite overdue in the sense that we have had---
Sen. Adan, you have to move the Motion. You have to start that, you want to move the following Motion which is now this one, and then you have to read it.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not getting you because I was trying to go through the Motion and you stopped me.
I did not stop you. You were not reading the Motion; you were giving some preliminary information and other things.
Sorry, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I beg to move the following Motion:- WHEREAS Article 51 of the Constitution of Kenya protects the rights of detained persons, persons held in custody and other imprisoned persons under the law, and requires Parliament to enact legislation to provide for the humane treatment of such persons with due regard to the relevant international human rights instruments; OBSERVING that international instruments, including the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the Convention Against Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment and the United Nations Basic Principles for the Treatment of Prisoners set standards on the treatment of persons, including the right to be treated with respect; protection from discrimination on the grounds of race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status; AWARE of the deplorable state of correctional services throughout the country including poor living conditions in the institutions of both officers and prisoners, the poor state of sanitation and nutrition, overcrowding, lack of proper medical attention, frequent outbreak of communicable diseases and frequent reports of deaths of inmates leading The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank Sen. Dullo for this great Motion. This demonstrates her commitment to human rights. For the purpose of this House, Sen. Dullo and I served in the Kenya National Commission on Human Rights (KNCHR), where she was in charge of penal reforms. This is an extremely important Motion for this Senate, so that we can start to interrogate the aspirations of our Constitution, particularly, when it comes to Chapter Four, which is the Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights ensures that all persons are accorded a certain standard of treatment. Those we jail and those who are free must ascribe to a certain standard of treatment. I remember the words of Mirugi Kariuki, the late Assistant Minister for Internal Security and Provincial Administration and who also served as the Nakuru Town Member of Parliament. He once said that a society is best judged not by how it treats the highest and mightiest of its citizens but how it treats its most undesirable citizens. Therefore, how we treat those in our correctional facilities tells the type of society that we are in. This is a country that likes to condemn those people just on mere allegations. That is why I said the media, Parliament and every institution has what I call social responsibility to ensure that rights and issues pertaining to the dignity of humans and certain aspersions that are cast on them are treated with caution to avoid what I call irreparable damage of image. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I commend former commissioner and distinguished Senator, Sen. Adan, for not only moving this Motion, but also giving me an opportunity to serve in this Committee. I believe I am going to add value for two reasons. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, when you use abbreviations like MOH, you assume that everybody knows. However, in drafting, normally you should say, Medical Officer of Health (MOH) and that goes correctly in reporting.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, you have put it perfectly correct. I believe the experiences I had were crazy experiences on one incident, I could not believe what happened to me and I used to examine them at the dispensary at Shikusa in Kakamega. I drove into the dispensary and I found as usual a queue and there was no separation between patients from the village and the prisoners. They used to sit on the same queue. So, there is this old woman, obviously poor, who was seated next to a prisoner, a teenager of around 19 years. That boy was coming to be declared fit by myself. At that time, the Kshs10 coin had just come out. They had replaced the green bill of Kshs10 that we used to have. So, this mama came, greeted me and when I received the greetings, I felt something cold, and it was the Kshs10 coin she had given me. Because I usually have a lot of time for people in the lower social class, I asked her what the problem was. She told me not to allow her child to be whipped. I realized she was greasing my hand so that I help her. When I went to examine the boy, even before I examined, the general impression was that the boy was long overdue for whipping. The boy was fit and he would run after any bull anytime and overpower it. I looked at the old woman and told her I was giving her Kshs100 and ensure the child respected the law. There were many other experiences that we had there. I, therefore, want to thank Sen. Adan, and promise that, unless the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee makes it otherwise, I will attend each sitting of this Committee. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is my conviction that in their present form, Kenyan prisons are more of punishment centres than correctional or rehabilitative centres as one would expect. The only thing or experience a prisoner gets after they have been in prison for having drunk changaa or sold busaa, is the punishment. There is no rehabilitation whatsoever of a man who is serving six months because he was found drinking changaa. When he comes back from prison, the only thing he remembers is how he was punished. Sen. Hassan might think that there is a lot of progress in terms of corporal punishment, but the so called corporal punishment where people are whipped by the warders might have gone down. That punishment has been converted to manual labour. If you go to the homes of Provincial Police Officers (PPOs), homes of Prison Officers and even some former District Commissioners (DCs), you find that there are prisoners there giving free service. As they clean the compounds, they feed the zero grazing units of cows belonging to the DC; nobody gives them even a glass of water. They are not paid anything whereas the same officer earns a salary and can hire somebody who can do those manual jobs in their homes. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Order! Address the Chair. I do not know even who you are addressing but it appears like you are addressing an individual Senator.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This is a University where retired President Kibaki holds very dear. Every time I remind him that there is a graduation day as I will remind him this year, he asks why they are not speeding up. Tell the National Lands Commission and President Uhuru to speed up, we want to grow. We also want to expand the Kakamega Airstrip. We want to lengthen the runway, and because it is adjacent to Shikusa, we want to move villagers around the Airstrip so that we convert our Airstrip into an Airport. Less than 10 per cent of the people on Kenya Airways and Fly 540 who land in Kisumu, even those who will land today, will spend the night in Kisumu. The rest of the people who land at the airport in Kisumu are forced to drive all the way to Busia, Mumias, Bungoma and other areas because we lack our own airport. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my time is up but I would like to conclude by speaking to something that is very dear to me. At the moment, the Constitution of Kenya provides for death penalty. The last president to effect that law was President Moi. President Kibaki left office without ever effecting that law. President Uhuru took oath to uphold the Constitution of Kenya. Knowing very well that law exists, our judges and magistrates pronounce death penalty from time to time and it is unfortunate that it is only President Moi who, unfortunately, for political considerations allowed death penalty to take effect. I ask President Uhuru to relieve the congestion in prisons. All the people on death penalty should pay as the judges found them guilty. What are they still doing there? These are the same people who break out of prison and go to rape our women and children. I support that this be done because it requires a strong man to be a president. When one swears to be the president and you cannot uphold the provision of death penalty in our Constitution--- The other considerations should only be in church. However, when it comes to the hot seat, you must ensure that the prisoners who are on death penalty, serve as an example to those who are thinking of committing similar crimes. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as law makers, we made a very big mistake when we provided that hardcore criminals can be released on bond. It is now so common to find that a person has committed murder in Kakamega and when he is released on bond, he goes back to the village and because the people he had targeted were two and he had succeeded in knocking out one, the person comes to Kawangware in Nairobi where Luhya’s like living and then takes a night bus, arrives at Kakamega at 3.00a.m., kills somebody and then comes back to Nairobi. This is all because of the so called bail. I have an ongoing case where a Form Four boy, the son of Ignatius Likolokoli Mabia, a student at Lirhembe Academy, was last week hacked by a hardcore from Kawangware, called Martin. This was---
Your time is up but I give you one minute to conclude that sentence.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want it to go on record that this was a mistake. We were misled by the lawyers. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
What is your point of order Sen. Hassan? I will hold your minute Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale in order to say that the President needs to uphold the Constitution and on the other side say that the Constitution being upheld by the court is a travesty? Is he in order to speak from both sides of his mouth?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I meant that particular Article and not the whole Constitution. The Form Four student was cut right in the middle of the head and the criminal, Martin Kashindi is just in Kawangware. What is more painful is that, these are people who come from my family. It is very frustrating. We must not mislead the country. Lawyers who agree with me should create a majority and abolish bail for capital offences. I beg to support.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank Sen. Adan, who is also a former Commissioner of the Kenya Human Rights Commission (KHRC). During her time at the KHRC, she advocated for women who had been raped. I thank Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and Sen. Hassan for the contributions they have made. I also thank our former Vice-President, Hon. Moody Awori who made sure that the plight of prisoners in our country was understood. It was during his tenure that people started having more outreach programmes to prisons. Looking at prisons today, there is need to restructure the whole sector. We are currently doing police reforms but we have never thought of the inmates, the prison warders, and how to deal with petty offenders and hardcore criminals. When you visit prisons today, you will find that the petty offenders are put together with the hardcore criminals and that is why many Kenyans have ended up conned by inmates through the phone. Our mothers and grandmothers have sent Mpesa to those inmates unknowingly. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the fundamental issue that has been brought out by Sen. Adan is that we need to look at the issue of sanitation, nutrition and overcrowding in prisons. However, I think that until we look into the welfare of the warders, the issue of corruption will not end. Prison warderns are corrupt because their pay is low and their welfare is pathetic thus the need for them to look for alternative sources to make money. Article 10 of the Constitution is about national values and principles of governance. We should, therefore, treat the inmates with dignity while they serve their time in correctional facilities. There was time when we had good juvenile facilities while today, we do not even know where the juvenile courts are or where to take juveniles who have been sentenced. It is very unfortunate that our youth are facing critical challenges today. They end up in hardcore gangs because when they are arrested and remanded at Industrial Area Remand Prison, they meet hardcore criminals who have committed serious crimes and they end up worse people than when they went in. When we talk about a correctional institution, how do we ensure that a young person who was imprisoned comes out reformed and ready to work with the community? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I support this Motion. It is important that we enforce Article 51 and comply with Article 2(5) to conform to international law and conventions which we have ratified on human rights, detention and imprisonment of persons. Since you have practiced criminal law like me, you know what I mean. If you have not been to a Government of Kenya (GK) remand or The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
You are challenging, Sen. G.G. Kariuki?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am challenging him to read The Brethren by Grisham.
Then refer to him by his correct title.
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Sen. G.G. Kariuki. I apologise; no ill will. I support this Motion and hope that we can do this before we go on recess although we are overwhelmed by these select committees but we will do our level best.
Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I join my colleagues in lauding and congratulating Sen. Adan for ably bringing this Motion to the Senate. The people who are in the prisons today are none other than the people who are in our counties. These are people who need correction because of the evil mistakes that they have done. This Motion proposes something to be done to correct some of the deplorable state of conditions in Kenya’s prisons. In 1911, the British introduced correctional centres in Kenya. At that time, they managed to gather 331 warders to look after the criminals who were over 6,000. As late as 2010, when the new Constitution came into effect, we had almost 100 correctional centres and over 50,000 inmates. We had a substantial number of staff who were working in these centres. A number of us have visited relatives or friends who have been taken to these correctional centres. I have visited Kapenguria Prison and I am surprised at the way these centres have remained from 1911. I visited Kepenguria when it was being built in the 1940s during the Second World War. The houses that the first prisoners slept in are the same ones that the current, the present and the future will be in. Another amazing thing that we found is that the warders are being paid a salary which is very miserable because it starts from Kshs18,000. They work to become constables which is after 20 years and they end up getting around Kshs30,000. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Is it Saiwa or Saikwa? We must not distort history.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is Saikwa Chemonges. Since then, West Pokot County has had the privilege and honour to hold the post of Prison Commissioner. The late Saikwa was the first, then Mzee Lopokoiyit followed by Mr. Kamakil and now Mr. Osugo. When I asked the retired officers, Mr. Lopokoiyit and Mr. Kamakil, why there were no reforms, they said that they tried to propose the reforms but it looked like no Kenyan ever imagines that you can put money and reform a prisoner. So, the proposals that they laid on the table were not followed and are now in the archives of the parent Ministry. May be we would have seen a change in this department if there was what has just taken place in the Ministry of Education where we have public schools. About 15 years ago, we introduced private schools where nobody wanted to take their children. What does it cost if Kenya also allows some entrepreneur to come up with a private prison or correctional centre? When retired President Mwai Kibaki came into power, he introduced free primary education. It was because the ones in private schools had an upper hand and so the Government had to introduce an amount of money to get more facilities and equipment into schools as opposed to before. This is the way that we can trigger some of the changes there. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand to support this Motion. I also congratulate my dear friend, Sen. Adan, for bringing it to the Senate and choosing a very competent list of hon. Members to be in the Select Committee. I want to speak specifically about police cells. I will only speak of my experience in one prison, because I was once imprisoned at Luzira Maximum Security Prison in Uganda in 1969. I have been put in police cells in the following police stations in Kenya: The Criminal Investigation Department (CID) Police Station near the Integrity Centre, Kabete Police Station, Kileleshwa Police Station, the Central Police Station, the Police Station near the “Machakos Airport” on the way to Shauri Moyo, which I cannot quite remember its name, the Muthaiga Police Station, the Kisumu Police Station, the Traffic Headquarters Police Station near Kenyatta National Hospital (KNH) and finally, Nyayo House where I spent about 30 days. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was in prison at the Luzira Maximum Security Prison for a couple of days. During those days, prison conditions in Kenya and Uganda were more or less the same. I remember very well the lack of human rights and the indignity of being in a prison cell. You had a bowl for your toilet and you were responsible for looking after it. You had only a few hours in the morning to see daylight when you were cutting grass. You would spend the rest of your days in the prison cell. I was taken to prison because being a student leader – the President of the students’ guild at Makerere University – we had organised a demonstration against the British Government to protest against their sale of arms to the Apartheid Regime in South Africa. The Uganda Government did not take that kindly. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, of all the police stations where I was held for a couple of days waiting to be taken to court, I remember, in particular, the police station near the Machakos Bus Stop where I found 40 people crowded in a place not bigger than, I would say, 10 by 10 feet. Since I was a Member of Parliament (MP), the person in charge was kind enough to order those people out of that small room so that I could stay there alone. I felt very bad because I knew that those 40 people would experience an even worse situation whereas I would enjoy a room to myself. There was a trench with dudus within the prison cell, along which the sewage moved. The smell was terrible. You can image the smell and the 40 people who were there. I was alone but I could not stand it. However, since I had been held the whole night without sleeping, I actually fell asleep under those circumstances. Had it not been for my lawyers – a whole team of lawyers from Parliament including Sen. Murungi who came in the afternoon with a habeas corpus – my experience in that place would have been horrible. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to talk about the other police stations that I have mentioned. Although they were a little bit neater than the one near the Machakos Bus Stop, nonetheless, they were equally inhuman. I was held in and my shoes were taken away from me. They also took my belt because, I think, they suspected that I could hang myself using it. You were kept in a police cell for many days without brushing your The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of order, I wish to remind my friend Hon. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o that the Minister of State in charge of Internal Security does not detain anyone. Even today, this job is supposed to be done by another minister. Not the minister of state. If it were me, may be, the story would have been different but I did not. I need to correct you.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand corrected. We shall share our jokes later with Sen. G.G. Kariuki. I was saying that, what is most inhuman, especially, at Nyayo House which is now history, is that, it is better to be taken to Kamiti Maximum Prison where at least the laws are clear on what happens to a prisoner. It is worse to be at the Nyayo House torture chambers. Apparently, that was never safeguarded by any law. Anything can happen to you. One of the things is that you do not have any right in the dungeon there. You go there on the 1st of May fully dressed. Your shoes and belt are removed. You stay with those clothes for a whole month without changing. Secondly, you are allowed to take a shower but without soap. You just take a cold shower and hope that you will be clean. When you leave the shower room, you go to your cell without a towel. I used to run around the cell until I am dry.
However, it was good exercise. In that cell there was no mat to sleep on. You would sleep on the cold floor. Fortunately, I made friends with my guards there who brought me a sisal mat, not the papyrus one, to sleep on for the time I was there. Still, you do not have a toothbrush or a comb so you do not brush your teeth for the long you are there. Mine time was a month. One day, I attempted brushing my teeth with some Omo that I found in the shower. I showered with it and said; “if this thing can clean me, it can also clean my teeth.” Not realizing that after that, I would not have any taste buds, I could not even feel the taste of water. These are the kind of things that detainees go through. Sen. Adan’s Committee should look into them. I am willing to be the first witness in this committee and give a much more detailed testimony. The other thing, which is very important is, we should have a records for the history of those who were detained in the Nyayo Police cells. I understand from the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’- Nyong’o. When debate on this Motion resumes, Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o will have five minutes balance to continue with his contribution.
Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30 p.m., time to interrupt the business of the Senate. Therefore, the Senate stands adjourned until Tuesday, 13th October, 2015 at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.