Hon. Senators, let us begin with the statement listed as 2(a). BUSINESS FOR THE WEEK COMMENCING TUESDAY, 3RD NOVEMBER, 2015
Mr. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.45, I rise to present the business of the Senate for the coming week. The Rules and Business Committee will meet on Tuesday, 3rd November, 2015 at 12 noon to schedule business of the Senate for the week. Subject to further directions by the Rules and Business Committee, the Senate will continue with business that will not be concluded in today’s Order Paper focusing on debate on Bills at the Second Reading stage and Committee of the Whole. In addition, the following Bills will be scheduled for Second Reading and Committee of the Whole:-
Let us move on to Statement 2(b) by Sen. Omondi. SECURITY OF PERSONS LIVING WITH ALBINISM IN THE COUNTRY
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to seek a statement. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.45 2(b) to seek a statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations regarding the security of persons living with albinism in the country. In the Statement, the Chairperson should state whether:- (1) He is aware that the Government of the Republic of Kenya had promised to protect all persons living with disability in the country. (2) State whether he is aware that one Mr. Enock Jameya, a 56 year old Kenyan living with albinism, who was viciously attacked on 10th September, 2015, succumbed to the injuries five days after he was discharged from hospital. (3) Explain the circumstances under which the victim was attacked and the steps the Government is taking to ensure the perpetrators of the attack are brought to book. (4) Explain what steps the Government is taking to ensure that persons with disability are protected particularly in the light of perceived growing demand for body parts of persons with albinism in the neighbouring county of Tanzania.
Chair of the Committee?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we will make an endeavor to issue this Statement in the next two weeks.
Let us get the response in the next two weeks. DEATH OF MR. ALEX MADAGA FOLLOWING A ROAD ACCIDENT Hon. Senators, this Statement has been deferred to Tuesday, next week. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have just received the Statement although it was never directed to the right place. We did it within last night and we have an answer. I will just read it and Members may seek clarifications. This is the Statement on the preparedness on the forecasted El Nino rains. It is a very long statement. Do I have to read the whole of it?
Order, Deputy Majority Leader. You may familiarise yourself with it as we move on to the next ones and then I will call you.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
We are now at the Statement listed as 2(e). Chairperson Committee on Roads and Transportation, you can proceed. STATUS OF ROAD CONSTRUCTION IN URBAN CENTRES BY KENYA URBAN ROADS AUTHORITY
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on behalf of the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Roads and Transportation, I wish to respond to the various questions raised by Sen. Ndiema, the Senator for Trans Nzoia County. His request is in six parts: (a) I wish to respond that a list of new roads designed and constructed by KURA since its inception in the Financial Year 2010/2011 is indicated in Appendix B, which I will table at the end of my answer. (b) Again, I want to respond that the list of roads which have been repaired by KURA is contained in Appendix B, which, again, I will table after my answer. (c) In construction of new roads, KURA conducts feasibility studies in various urban centres. From these studies, it is able to establish the status of the roads that require intervention. This is also guided by the traffic volumes, the capacity of the towns and areas that require to be decongested. Designs are then carried out on a priority basis and request for funding made to the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructure, after which procurement for construction work is done based on the budget ceilings received from the Treasury. (d) KURA has repaired several roads within Kitale Municipality including rehabilitation with asphalt concrete overlay as per the brief attached in Appendix 3 which I will be tabling. (e) This Financial Year, 2015/2016, KURA has advertised for routine and periodic maintenance of road projects to be undertaken. Again, I attach Appendix 4 which indicates which roads these are. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, first, I want to thank Sen. Obure for the response and the Ministry for being frank and giving a detailed report on what they have done since inception. They have given the details as requested. However, we can deduce from the report that KURA has not been fair in allocation of resources and roads. KURA is not alive to devolution. I want to seek the following clarifications. Why has KURA allocated a lot of resources and constructed roads mainly in Nairobi, as if Nairobi is the only urban centre? They have also constructed roads in a few townships or municipalities around Nairobi. The Municipality of Kitale, if you are to look at the details, has been poorly funded hence it is no surprise that the roads in Kitale are dilapidated. Even those which were tarmacked in the early years of Independence have never been revisited or repaired. On the issue of whether KURA involves the counties, it is quite clear that KURA has not been involving the counties. When will the function of urban roads maintenance and construction be devolved? Since inception of KURA, no new road has been constructed or tarmacked in Kitale Municipality. Even the road to Milimani, which is a very important area and Matisi with a high population, have not been tarmacked. No wonder the residents recently planted bananas on the Milimani Road. This is a low density area. We would want to pride ourselves that we are a town. I need those clarifications and I wish that other Senators look at this report in detail because it clearly shows that KURA is discriminative in the manner it is allocating resources. It is also selective. The principle of equality is not being considered.
Sen. Obure, you may now respond.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. Ndiema is clearly raising concerns about the basis or criteria which Kenya Urban Roads Authority (KURA) applies in allocating resources. To a large extent, I am personally quite sympathetic with the concerns Sen. Ndiema is raising. I request the Committee, in our next meeting, to invite the KURA, draw their attention to this concern and request them to review the criteria for resource allocation. In respect to the question on devolution, this is a fairly grey area up to now. We have been waiting for a review of the Roads Act which will define new roles for the road authorities and county governments. When it is finally here, we will be able to sort out the question of which functions are devolved and which are retained by the road agencies. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree with the proposal by the Chairperson that the Cabinet Secretary (CS) in charge of roads as well as KURA be invited to the Committee so that this Senate can further interrogate this report to ensure fairness. I am happy that the chairperson---
Order, Senator! You are being repetitive. Let us move on to the next Statement listed as 2(f). ISSUANCE OF TITLE DEEDS IN MERU COUNTY The Member is not here. Let us move on to Statement listed as 2(g). Proceed, Chair of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My Statement has been skipped. It has been put on the Order Paper twice---
Order! Which one is it?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is listed as 2(d) on the Order Paper.
Order, Senator. Just consult your neighbours, they will advice you. Proceed, Chairperson National Security and Foreign Relations. KILLINGS IN KITUI COUNTY
Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. David Musila requested for a Statement on the security situation along the Kitui/Tana River County border. I wish to state as follows; The Kamba, Somali and Orma communities live along that border. Generally, the security situation is currently satisfactory in the area. It is important to know that Kamba tribesmen are generally farmers while Somalis and Ormas are nomadic pastoralists. The causes of conflict among the members of the different communities residing in the area include; i. Competition for resources Pasture and water are the main causes of conflict between the farmers and pastoralists, especially between the months of August and November when the dry spell is severe. Some of the Kamba tribesmen have leased out water points to pastoralists against the wishes of the larger Kamba Community and advice of the peace committees. Twamboei Earth Dam in Mutito Sub County and Sasumua Dam in Mwingi East Sub- County are the most affected by the conflict due to the leasing. ii. Boundary dispute between Kitui and Tana River counties. The Somalis and Ormas have settled in Kalalani and Enyali areas of Kitui respectively which is detested by Kitui County leaders who view this as an act of aggression, trespass into and occupation of their county land. Galole Constituency Development Fund has aggravated the situation through building of schools, sinking of boreholes and grading of Waldema-Mutha Road. In Mwingi East Sub-County, Somalis have occupied Mwanzele area which is 16 kilometers inside Kitui County. Again, Bura Constituency Development Fund has developed permanent structures in the area. iii. Banditry The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
What is it, Sen. Musila?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the distinguished Chairperson, Sen. Haji, is reading a Statement that I asked for in May. From this week’s ruling, the Cabinet Secretary (CS) was coming. He is reading the same statement he read then. Is he in order to read a statement when we are expecting the CS on Tuesday? I think the Senator is out of order.
Chairperson National Security and Foreign Relations.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I hate to argue with my brother, Sen. Musila.
Who is senior to the other?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, he is senior to me. However, there was a time I was senior to him.
It appears in the Order Paper and I do not have any other option other than reading. I wish he would have raised that at the beginning. Yes, we have summoned the CS to appear on Tuesday. The Senator should opt between me reading the statement and him pursuing with the CS, when he comes. Optionally, I could leave it and he will handle it when the CS is here
Those are the options you should have given the House and the Member. We will go by the Member’s option.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have no problem.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a Statement regarding alleged discrimination in issuance of national identity cards in Isiolo County. On Thursday, 15th October, 2015, Sen. Fatuma Dullo requested for a Statement on the same. I will go straight to the Statement. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to appreciate the answer given by the Chair and also the struggle he has gone through to try and answer some of the issues I raised. Let me registrar my dissatisfaction. The answer given by the registrar and the Ministry is not practical on the ground. We are being given false information and I would request this House to summon the registrar along with the Cabinet Secretary on Tuesday to answer some of the questions that were raised by the members previously including the issue affecting Isiolo County. Finally, I want to request the Chair to consider this; there is a lot of discrimination taking place in Isiolo County. The foreigners are the ones who have the right to identity cards in Isiolo County. It is important for the registrar to remove the deputy registrar in Isiolo County with immediate effect. There is a lot of corruption taking place in that county.
Hon. Senators, we need to make a decision again. If the Cabinet Secretary is coming on Tuesday, whatever is remaining can come to the Floor. We complain about Statements taking a lot of time so if there is that window, let The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, upon receiving this question from my friend, Sen. Khaniri, I had to summon the Teachers Service Commission (TSC) yesterday. I met them for quite some time and they confessed to us that it is not possible to release the Statement until the court so orders; which is going to be done today. Therefore, by next week, they will release information about salaries.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. We all know how the law of
applies in this House. If you critically look at the Statement and the issues I have asked, they have nothing to do with the issues being deliberated in court. Is the Chairman in order to run away from answering this question?
That is not running away from the question. I am giving you information as I got from the source, which is TSC. I will give the answer next week when the case has been heard.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This matter is of grave national importance and the distinguished Chairman of the Committee should read the full content of Article 41 of the Constitution and understand that the question of paying teachers of this country their salaries cannot be hidden under the smoke-screen of the rule of sub judice . The teachers deserve their salaries and must be paid their salaries. Anything less is a violation of the Constitution and their rights under Articles 37, 39 and 41 which the Chairman should have an opportunity to read and advise the Teachers Service Commission (TSC) accordingly. Could he tell us, sub judice or not, when are the teachers going to get their salaries for September? These are parents like you, they have children---
Order, Sen. Wetangula!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sure the Chairman appreciates that this is a matter of grave concern when we talk about the predicament of teachers. Teachers are Kenyans who have personal obligations, they pay rent, buy food for their families and so on. Is it in order, even after a court ruling has been made to the effect that the teachers be paid, they have not been paid and the Chairman still wants to postpone the issue of payment of teachers to another week? Are we really being considerate?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Chairman should be fair to this nation. The issue before the court is not the payment of salaries; it is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think we should not be very hard on the Chairman. He has tried his best and; anyway, who told these teachers to go on strike? If they were not working, how can they be paid and they did not work? They should go and demand money from Sossion.
Order, Sen. Haji!
Order, Members! Sen. Haji, you are completely out of order. When you rise on such occasions, it is meant to seek a clarification: That was not a clarification, neither did you rise on a point of order. I am sure your plate is full, as the Chairman of the Committee National Security and Foreign Relations. Let Sen. Karaba carry his baby. Sen. Leshore, is it a point of order?
No, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think I gave my Statement and it is clear as it was yesterday. The reason why I called TSC to a Committee meeting was for the same purpose. They confessed to us that they were going to release information to us by the end of today. There is a court process and I am willing to give information about teachers’ salaries next Tuesday. If there is anybody who is affected more, it is the Chairman of the Committee on Education who has been once a teacher. I know what it means to be in that position
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I guess we have no choice. We will have to wait for next week. I hope when the Chairman comes, he will address all the issues that I raised in the statement exhaustively.
Sen. Karaba, bring your statement next week. Also take into account all the issues that Members have raised. Indeed, there is a difference between a salary and a contest for a salary hike. There is also a difference between a matter being sub judice and to what extent are the matters being canvassed. You need to demonstrate part of that particular thing to the House; failure to do so, you will have no choice. Next Statement! Sen. Haji, you were so quick to spring to the defence of Sen. Karaba; now deal with him. KILLING OF MR. ELIUD WACHAIRA GACHOKI
Mr. Speaker, Sir, unfortunately, I have not received the Statement yet. We will still pursue the Ministry to give us maybe next week; and not only that, since the Cabinet Secretary is appearing before the whole House on Tuesday, Sen. Karaba, can pursue it with the Cabinet Secretary. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, some of these statements will require a lot of time because it is a matter of going to the police stations, going through files and coming up with a statement. This incident occurred three months ago, and I am sure this information is already lying in the police stations. So, I do not know why it is not possible for it to be done today, but if he is suggesting that we wait further---
I will go by the wishes of the Chairman.
Statements sought by Sen. Murungi will be pushed by one week to next Thursday. ISSUANCE OF TITLE DEEDS IN MERU COUNTY STATUS OF LAND CONTROL BOARDS IN MERU COUNTY
Now, let us revisit Statement 2(d). Proceed, Senate Deputy Majority Leader.
Sen. Nabwala, you will wait for the response. You are not the one to respond to your Statement. THE GOVERNMENT’S PREPAREDNESS IN MITIGATING EFFECTS OF THE IMPENDING EL NINO RAINS
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am ready to give the Statement, but as I told you, it is long. I will try to shorten it and then I will get a clarification in case of anything. After what transpired yesterday, this is the work that has been done overnight. However, I will read the major issues. The Kenya Meteorological Department issued an alert stating parts of the country which will receive enhanced rainfall during the short rains season of October to December leading to El Nino. As a result, in view of the above, the Government moved with speed to put in place measures that will address the impact of the El Nino rains in various sectors of the economy. It was clear that the rains will impact positively in some areas and negatively in others. Adequate preparation was initiated so that the country could avoid the negative impacts which may be caused by heavy rains. As a result, a Cabinet sub-Committee chaired by the Deputy President was formed to deal with El Nino disaster preparedness and response. The Government then put in place a multi-sectoral task force under the Presidency which brought together a technical team from the various Ministries to address the various intervention measures required to address the issues exhaustively. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sorry; the Statement was not given to me in advance to enable me to interrogate it. However, I would have liked to have the costs which the Government has spent per county so that, we, as legislators, can also see what is happening on the ground---
Order, Sen. Nabwala! You also owe the House and the Chair an apology because you came late and we deferred the Statement because of you. Now when you came you are accusing us of skipping the Statement. Order! Give Sen. Nabwala the microphone.
Thank you very much Mr. Speaker, Sir. First, I apologise for coming late; it was due to traffic but I am here. I must also appreciate the efforts by the Deputy Majority Leader for giving us the information. My complaint had been that the Statement had been postponed twice when it appeared on the Order Paper. I wonder if there is El Nino or not. Mr. Speaker, Sir, what I wanted to talk about is the cost incurred by the Government to prepare for the El Nino rains. We would like to have the cost per county. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I think we are not very sure about what the Deputy Majority Leader was telling us about El Nino . He should have told us the meaning of El Nino, because the meaning was not captured properly. What is happening today is the normal rainfall pattern being followed, going by the meteorological department. The intensity of rain distribution and reliability is what will make us understand that there is El Nino, which has not started. There are some areas which have not received rains. What is going to happen with those counties which have received money and there is no El Nino?
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I just needed a little clarification. The first one has to do with the degree of confidence. Can the Chairman tell us, with what degree of confidence can we operate on the information given vis a vis the
, because various regions are supposedly going to get El Nino ? In some places, it has not rained even for three years and they are supposed to be getting El Nino . People are spending huge sums of money in preparation for these things. So, is there any degree of confidence? Can he tell us that there will be a 10 percent chance in Kyeni and may be 100 percent in Turkana, so that we know how to prepare for those areas? Secondly Mr. Speaker, Sir, this has to do with the way in which we are preparing for El Nino . We hear that money is being allocated, but when you look at the activities on the ground, for instance, we raised a matter in this House of the trees that are hanging on power lines. You do not see any activity going on, cutting trees near power lines. So, could he clarify to us the various activities that are taking place on the ground in preparation for El Nino ?
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to thank Sen. Nabwala for raising this very important issue. We want the Deputy Majority Leader to tell us - and not to lose his fuse like yesterday- where the authority for this country to believe that there will be an El Nino came from. Where did it come from? Is it scientific? Every morning, when you listen to the Meteorological Department’s forecast, it is the usual showers and nothing else. When will the so called El Nino rains start because we were told it was going to start around the first week of October? October is now over. Mr. Speaker, Sir, he has said that Kshs5 billion has been earmarked for the programme. We have also heard Cabinet Secretaries saying on national televisions that the amount designated for mitigating El Nino effects is Kshs30 billion. Now, we are being told it is Kshs5 billion. And like I said yesterday, I just hope that this is not another conspiratorial arrangement to loot from public coffers. Like the distinguished Senator for Nyeri has said, there are different effects of El Nino to different places. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order! Senator, please distinguish a general debate from interrogating a Statement.
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am seeking a clarification. In the El Nino of 1997, the Government knows that people lost lives because they were living on river embankments in Nairobi. I have not seen anybody being moved away from river embankments within the crowded areas of Nairobi. What are we preparing for? We are told they are vaccinating animals. We do not need an ElNino to vaccinate an animal, surely, unless we are doing things at the wrong time in the wrong place.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The effects of El Nino, if at all will be there, will be felt in the area of agriculture and the area of food production. How much has been allocated to agriculture especially in purchase of maize which is now going to waste in Trans Nzoia and other counties? Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have heard of situations like Turkana where the county government has spent a lot of money advertising in the press, full page and giving hotlines to Turkanas on what lines to ring in the event of El Nino . Is that what they really need? I would imagine that in Turkana, they would need---
Order! Senator, do not imagine; interrogate the real Statement, your time is over.
Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir. Indeed, I think there are El Nino effects in some parts of the country. In Mandera County last week in a sub-county called Elwak, there was unusual rain which had the effects of flooding. In fact, one person died and dozens of people have been displaced and they are now living in make shift camps in Elwak. Could the Chairman explain what help, if any, as we speak, has been given to the people of Mandera who have been affected by what can be categorized, based on the definition that he gave, as El Nino?.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I think the last time El Nino came; we did not know it was El Nino until it was declared as El Nino . This time, I think we are over-excited to receive the El Nino and I believe this is not something which was to happen throughout the country, at the same time. In Central Province, we saw a report that there was a house which collapsed because of the effects of El Nino . Mr. Speaker, Sir, the other question I am asking myself ---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, further to all the questions that have been asked, I am interested in knowing how much of the amount that has been set aside to mitigate ElNino will be used towards harvesting the water knowing that 70 per cent of this country experiences arid and semi arid conditions perennially. Now that we know El Nino is coming, how much of the billions of shillings have been set aside to harvest the water so that we help counties like Mandera and other dry counties? Secondly, what mitigation and cushioning measures have been put in place to assist Kenyans living in informal settlements, especially in urban areas like Nairobi; riparian areas like Kibera and Mathare? How much and how prepared is the Government- --
Your time is up, Sen. Ongoro! The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. I would like to know whether our people are aware of this El Nino phenomenon because it is important. As Sen. Billow said, the rains have come and caused damage. In future, we also need to trust our Metrological Department. What measures have been put in place to create awareness so that there is preparedness in case of disaster? I also need to know how much has been set aside in preparedness because we have witnessed the effects of ElNino in the past
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to seek clarification on the estimates. Are there any estimates from the Government Ministries? In case of the Kshs5 billion contingency fund, we need to get the breakdown per sector or county, if possible. In terms of the mitigating measures, the positive ones like water catchment were supposed to have been put up before the rains. Are there any preparations that are ongoing in terms of the mitigating measures?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, what legal or disciplinary action will be taken against the department in case the El Nino is not felt or received? It is assumed that all parts of the country will receive El Nino rains. In areas where it will not happen, and money has been used, what action will the Government take against those officers who will have misled our people? Secondly, how prepared is the Government to handle people with disabilities? How will the Government evacuate them if El Nino affects them? What feeding programmes and treatment will be put in place?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not want to say that El Nino rains has started, but some areas in this country are facing heavy rainfall. Last week in Baragoi, we lost over 70 goats after two days of heavy rainfall. In 1997/1998, we suffered very many diseases in Kenya, especially in the former Rift Valley Province where we had the Rift Valley Fever. In North Eastern and parts of the former Eastern Provinces, we had the Blue Tongue disease which killed many livestock. I would like to get a response from the Chairperson on how the Government will mitigate against those diseases.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the clarification I would like to seek from the Senate Deputy Majority Leader is whether the coordinating team is working with the counties. We have seen in the media many counties allocating huge amounts of money. For example, one county has set aside Kshs300 million. Is there a mechanism of ensuring that there is proper coordination so that we do not have certain officials within the county and national Government misusing this money instead of ensuring that our people are helped with the challenges that they face?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, my concerns have been alluded to by Sen. Leshore. However, I would like to ask the Chairperson to give us an assurance that there will be adequate vaccine against the Rift Valley Fever which killed many people and livestock in northern Kenya.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like know how much of the total amount set aside to mitigate the effects of El Nino has been earmarked to deal with the destruction to infrastructure, in particular, the Mai Mahiu-Narok Road which is prone to destruction in such events. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know whether we are experiencing La
in my county because my people are suffering from starvation. I expected that the money earmarked for El Nino should be used to cater for the people who are suffering already. We have lost many animals in my county due to drought. People’s lives are at risk. I am shocked to see the level of mobilization in preparation for the El Nino by the national and county governments instead of directing their energies to the needy people. Looking at the infrastructures that were taken over by the county government, there are bridges that were swept away by water last year, but have not been repaired until now. We are talking about El Nino now, yet there is infrastructure which was destroyed about one or two years ago and has not been repaired.
Order Senator. Your time is up. It is now time for clarification, not time to air views.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, my people are suffering. Why can that money not be directed to cater for the immediate problems?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are so many clarifications that have been sought. Although I just got the response this afternoon, I will endeavor to respond to the ones I can. The ones I am unable, I will give the response next week. I would also like to remind the Senate Minority Leader that my fuse is okay, it is his that needs to be checked. This is a multi-sectoral agency. It involves all the Ministries and county governments which I mentioned earlier. We have heard that even the county governments are signing or re-allocating some funds as provided for in the Constitution, in the Fourth Schedule; which gives the county governments the authority on what to be done by the National and county government. I want to say that I do not have the details of every county, and I think it is prudent. I will get the details of the amount as signed per county and those which have been used. It is good to apportion those that have been used because they are ongoing activities. In some of the counties, there are no activities. I will give a detailed breakdown on the cost next week. The Kshs5 billion is from the National Treasury. There are also some Ministries that have set aside some of the funding. For example; like Ministry of Water and Irrigation is providing plastics, water dams and pans in some of the areas. So, they are using the funds within the Ministry. I will get all the details about the monies which have been used by various Ministries and also the county governments, so that we can exactly come up with the figure and say we have spent Kshs20 billion or Kshs30 billion earmarked for El Nino . The detailed document will provide that. On the issue of infrastructure, that also depends on how much of this kitty had, if it is Kshs5 billion which had been earmarked for its re-allocation, like what Sen. Elizabeth asked. On the relocation of the people living along the river banks, I will give the details of how much has been earmarked and what activities are ongoing now and even in terms of the infrastructure. I have seen that there is a weekly, report or brief to the Committee, which is being done always. It shows every county like in Vihiga, there is a school which was flooded and collapsed, I will give those details. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order. Mr. Speaker Sir. You must have heard our Chairman say that they are going to provide fertilizer. Is he telling us that fertilizer is going to be used before El Nino rains so that it will be washed away?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, In some of the areas where they are harvesting now like in Trans-Nzoia, the situation is different while in others where they have already harvested, they need to plant. I said the El Nino impacts positively and negatively. So where it impacts positively, we will provide seedling and everything for farmers to use. However, it impacts negatively in some of the areas by destroying roads, displacing people and causing havoc everywhere.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, in his answer the Deputy Majority Leader, should specifically touch on the seed maize farmers in Trans-Nzoia. There is a lot of rain, and the maize is still in the field. The Kenya Seed Company is not helping the farmers and they are likely to incur huge losses.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I am getting you right, you mean the seeds planted by the farmers? Pertaining to the maize seeds, I do not have an answer to that but I will include it on Thursday when I come up with the comprehensive statement. I will also consider even those which are due for harvest.
Order, Members. So when do we get the detailed one, Deputy Majority Leader?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have requested for one week. I will issue the Statement on Thursday next week.
It is so directed. That is the end of Statements. We should now move to the next order. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Hon. Senators, we are now in Committee of the Whole. I hope that the Senate Majority Leader is ready.
Mr. Chairman, Sir, for purposes of clarification to the House, there are two Bills; the Public Procurement and Asset Disposal Bill and the Public Audit Bill. Which one are we starting with?
But we are on Order No. 8 which is the Public Procurement and Asset Disposal Bill.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Sir.
On a Point of Order, Mr. Chairman, Sir. My matter relates to Order Nos.8 and 9, but I will stick to Order No. 8. With utmost humility, looking at the Memorandum from the President of the Republic of Kenya and the proposed amendments, I find the proposition that the Memorandum which has been received in the House and subject to Order No.8 is unconstitutional. The language used by the President in this Memorandum is the language of the former Constitution and not the current Constitution. The distinction is that under Section 30 of the old Constitution the President was part and parcel of Parliament. In fact, the President was the first component of the Parliament by virtue of Section 30. Parliament of Kenya consisted of the President and the National Assembly. The President was throughout an active Member of Parliament. However, the current Constitution providing for complete separation of powers, forbids the President without the authority of Parliament from being a legislator. It is important that we look at this carefully. I am doing this with utmost humility. Mr. Chairman, Sir, I have taken the liberty to bring along a copy of the old Constitution. Where the President refuses to assent to a Bill under the old Constitution, Section 46(2) reads as follows:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, hon. Members! There are very many requests and, therefore, you have to be patient. Let us listen to each one of them. I have them here. Therefore, you do not have to rise.
Mr. Chairman, Sir, I have heard what the distinguished Sen. Orengo has said. However, I just want to seek clarification. Yesterday in the afternoon, the Speaker spoke about this matter and made various rulings on it. Given what the Speaker said yesterday regarding whether this matter is properly before the House or not and what Sen. Orengo has said, I just want to find out if there is any contradiction between what the Speaker ruled and the present question on the Floor of the House.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Sorry, Mr. Chairman, Sir.
Could you decide what you want to call me?
You are the Chairman. However, you are our Deputy Speaker. Therefore, we are tempted to look at your bigger picture rather than the smaller one in which you are now. Mr. Chairman, Sir, Sen. Orengo has raised a very fundamental point. I want us to look at it in a very rational manner. Many of us have been in this Parliament for a very long time. In many cases, when the President sends back a memorandum to the House – unless it is a serious transgression – Parliament has often accommodated the views of the President. When these Memoranda from the President came on the two Orders, they were, as it is required under the Standing Orders and Constitution, referred to Joint Committees. The Joint Committees did their work and reached a deadlock. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order! Sen. Wetangula. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
I am sorry, Mr. Chairman, Sir, I withdraw that word. However, I urge you to give serious consideration to this matter. As Sen. Orengo, Sen. G.G. Kariuki and other older Members here can tell us, this Parliament has walked through valleys and hills in this country to get where it is. The Clerk of Parliament was always a junior officer from the Office of the President until the amendments came. This Parliament now enjoys an equal authority, if not superior authority, to the Executive and the Judiciary. That is why it is Parliament that approves the appointment of the head of the Judiciary and it can impeach the head of the Executive. Nobody in the other Arms of Government can impeach Parliament. I want to submit as I end, that if we take any partisan position or a position of political convenience, arguing against what is on the Floor now, has nothing to do with who is the President. It has everything to do with what is right for the country and for the future. I want us to take a non-partisan position on this. I want us to secure the institution of Parliament from encroachment by other arms of government.
He is on a point of order.
I am on a point of order.
Sen. Wetangula, you must now wind up.
Mr. Chairman, Sir, just a minute. I am winding up. We are trying to create a precedence for the future that will help generations to come. Because when we are not here tomorrow, confronted by a similar situation, the Third and Fourth Senate will look at what the distinguished Senator for Murang’a, seating as the Deputy Speaker of the House, wrote and delivered for guidance. That is why we fall back to our Standing Order No.1. We are guided by usage, precedence and everything else that helps us build a chronological future for the orderly running of our Houses of Parliament. I urge you to find these Memoranda incompetent to the extent that they does not comply with either our Standing Orders or the Constitution and step them down so that we can go to the next order that has got no constitutional Standing Order or legal challenges.
Order, Senator! I get your point. What is your point of order, Sen. Leshore?
Mr. Chairman, Sir, my point of order is that my two colleagues who are very senior lawyers in this country, are misleading this Senate and the nation by saying that the President has no role in bringing Bills to this House. Bills originate from the Executive, then they are brought here for discussion. Apart from private Members’ Bills, what other Bills do we discuss here? In the Constitution, the President is given the power of assent. Why are they misleading us?
Order, Senator! There is a lot of interest in this matter. Normally, it is not in my place to curtail debate. This is very serious as Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. said. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
You have, Mr. Chairman, Sir.
On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, Sir. Sometimes it is good to hear the non-lawyers also.
Order, Sen. Billow! You know---
Mr. Chairman, Sir, I know you are one of them---
Just before we went on recess three months ago the Speaker gave a very lengthy Communication on this matter, here. Pursuant to that, he set up a Mediation Committee of both Houses. I happen to have been the Chairperson of that Mediation Committee that looked at both Memoranda. I have also heard what the Speaker said in his ruling yesterday. I was not in the House, but I was listening. I understand that yesterday he did not allow interventions. He said that interventions could be made today. That was his ruling. The reasons are very clear because based on his ruling yesterday, that consequential amendments can come in as new clauses. What we have in this memorandum is that some of them are not even consequential; you find a completely new clause. So, we will look at that. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Proceed, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. Sen. Wetangula, you have bitten the cherry, let us listen to Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.
Mr. Chairman, Sir, in fact, I raised this issue yesterday and the Speaker, in his considered view, thought that any objections to this matter, being in the Order Paper today should be raised today. That is in response to what Sen. Kagwe said. I raised an intervention yesterday because I was concerned that what appeared to be legislation in some form that I would call back door—
Now that I am on my feet, I would like you to lend me your ear. It is not a coincidence that you are seated there; it is because you are a lawyer of high distinction. So, this is a “Marende” moment for you. History will judge you harshly; and I am not being rude.
You could judge me harshly, but do what---
Mr. Chairman, Sir, history will judge you harshly if you do not do the right thing. My understanding of this Constitution is that under Article 259, the interpretation of this Constitution shall be construed according to the doctrine of interpretation that the law is always speaking and amongst other things, a function or power conferred by this Constitution on an office may be performed or exercised as occasion requires by a person holding office and continues as such. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. Keter, do you have a point of order?
Mr. Chairman, Sir, I am not a lawyer, but I understand one or two things.
But you are a law maker.
Mr. Chairman, Sir, yesterday, the Speaker made a ruling on whether the new clauses have an impact on the memorandum. Where you are as a chairman, you may not make proper decisions - there are two alternatives, either at this Committee Stage now, we move and if that amendment is unconstitutional, we vote on it so that The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Sir. I think we have to use all the wisdom available in this House today, because I think the matter is getting out of hand. The question I want to ask is whether we are debating or we are talking about the ruling by the Speaker, and now the House wants you to rescind the ruling of the Speaker. If we have to do away with the Speaker’s ruling, I do not think we are in order as we sit now, unless somebody brings a substantive Motion to request that the Speaker rescinds his decision. I do not know what we expect you to do. The Speaker said that the Memorandum is at the right place and it is acceptable. Do we want you to say that the Speaker made a mistake or we want you to say we proceed without even mentioning the name of the Speaker? Mr. Chairman, Sir, my recommendation here, if you allow me, is to, perhaps, adjourn this House for a few minutes, for you to consult with the Speaker; if he stands by what he said, we shall have to continue. Thank you.
Order, Members! As I said, I have a list here and I will give everybody an equal chance, except Sen. Omar Hassan who has just come and wants to jump the queue. He will be the last person to talk on this issue.
Thank you Mr. Chairman, Sir. I will be very brief. The issues that have been raised here are very weighty and have a lot of implications, not only on Parliament, but also as a way of setting precedents for the county assemblies and the governors. Mr. Chairman, Sir, I want to agree that we do not rush this matter. We need to consult widely and deeply and come up with the best interpretation that is in the interests of the people of Kenya because the sovereign power belongs to the people of Kenya, instead of rushing and, later on, we cause a problem.
On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, Sir. I want to add my voice, and I have listened to the arguments and I am just wondering because I know that learned lawyers sometimes do twist words. They bring new meanings. If you put 10 lawyers in a room, there will be five different interpretations of the law. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order Mr. Chairman, Sir. These arguments are really confusing. But all the same, as many of the people who stood before me said, we are being confused by the lawyers here. However, going by the ruling of the Speaker, we are putting the Chairman in a very difficult predicament and a very awkward position to expect him to rule otherwise. All the same, we are being told that under Article 115(2)(a) of the Constitution, when something is referred to the President for assent, it says:- “Amend the Bill in light of the President’s reservations.” Mr. Chairman, Sir, the question of reservation has been raised here by Sen. Orengo that instead of reservation, recommendations were made. But the two words have some similarities. They all start with “R”. Somebody came, then instead of reservation, wrote recommendation. Secondly, which takes precedence? Is it the Constitution or the Senate Standing Orders? The Constitution takes precedence over the Standing Orders. Therefore, I think the President has a right to give his reservation which is now recommended and say I do not agree with some, but propose that the Senate or the Parliament should consider this or the other. If we are not going to proceed, I then agree with what has been said by Sen. G.G Kariuki, that we proceed with whatever we can and those issues which are contentious may be dealt with at an appropriate time. People can sit together and resolve them.
Mr. Chairman, Sir, I would like to add a quiet voice of reason, having listened carefully to those who have spoken before me. Let me remind all of us The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Asante sana, Bw. Mwenyekiti. Mimi si wakili lakini kulingana na yale Maseneta waliotangulia wamesema, Spika alitoa mwelekeo wake jana lakini ukweli ni kwamba hatuwezi kuukosoa kwani Maseneta hawakupewa fursa ya kuukosoa mapema kabla ya kikao hiki. Tunajua kwamba kulikuwapo na Kamati ya Uwiyano iliyokaa chini na kuzungumza lakini hawakukubaliana. Jana, Bw. Spika alitoa mwelekeo lakini tutakayoizungumzia sasa ni ripoti ya Kamati ya Uwiyano ambayo haijaakifishwa mbele ya Seneti. Kusema ukweli Rais wetu anapewa aibu. Bw. Mwenyekiti, naomba tuihairishe Hoja hii ili Bunge la Seneti lisije likapata aibu. Ni kama tuko kwa majaribio. Kwa hivyo, nakusihi utumie hekima yako kuhairisha mjadala huu hadi tukae chini tutatue tashwishi zilizopo. Hoja hii haikuletwa kama ripoti kwa Seneti.
On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, Sir. We run the danger of making two wrongs that do not make a right. First and foremost, I do not know of a clause in our Standing Orders that challenges the Speaker’s ruling. According to the Speaker’s ruling, the matter is properly before the House. Let us accept that first. Having The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, Sir.
I am on a point of order. At least, I know that much of the law. If we do not discuss the matter, then it has to be brought in another way, but it cannot be by overruling the Speaker’s ruling.
On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, Sir.
Sen. Orengo, I will allow your point or order because you are the one who brought this issue up then I will close.
Mr. Chairman, Sir, as a way forward, I want to move an adjournment of debate on this matter on the basis of Standing Orders No.99(1). I beg to move:- THAT, the Committee of the Whole House do now adjourn and the Chairperson do report progress. Mr. Chairman, Sir, it is not unheard of that where there is controversy in Committee of the Whole stage, debate can be adjourned and the Chairperson of the Committee of the Whole reports progress. I think that the Speaker was right because this matter came as Order No.8 which could not be dealt with by the House while it was sitting as a full House. It could only be considered in the Committee of the Whole stage. It is also not right that if in the Committee, a direction given by the House is not in conformity with the law that you just go on, because a direction had been given. You can report back to the House that, when we commenced debate these issues arose to which we want to report progress. Mr. Chairman, Sir, I want to urge you, most respectively, to follow the Speaker of the National Assembly. Recently, there was a Bill before them on Powers and Privileges. At the Committee Stage, he found that this was going to be a national disaster. The The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Hon. Senators, I have listened to all of you. I have heard what you said, but one thing I would like to make it clear from where I am sitting is that I cannot overrule the Speaker’s Communication from the Chair. In fact, even if I was sitting in the main Chamber, I cannot overrule what the Speaker has said. The matter is of great importance to all of us, and we have to reach a decision on it. The Speaker gave a considered ruling or communication yesterday on the issue. It is because of that ruling that we are now here. I do not believe that it was contemplated by the Speaker when he gave the ruling that the sitting at Committee, which we are - as Sen. Orengo refers to, because we are sitting correctly at Committee. Therefore, the Speaker was right not to be here. There is nothing I can do to reverse this issue. So, there are only two things now that stand between us. We are dealing with Order Nos.8 and 9. The question is for us to decide whether or not, we are properly constituted. If we are properly constituted pursuant to the ruling of the Speaker, then we must proceed. If we are not properly constituted, then we must report progress. That would have to be done, but I cannot sit here and pretend that I am superintending the Speaker in his ruling. As the Speaker, when he made this ruling or communication, in the first instance, it was after a debate that had been instigated by the four Senators that I mentioned. He gave what Sen. Wetangula calls a considered Communication from the Chair. The only thing I can deal with now is not by way of trying to make a reversal. So, we must proceed with the two orders. Sen. Orengo has moved under our own Standing Order No.99 that the Chairperson do now report progress. However, if you look at Standing Order No.99 (1), it is clear in its terms and it does not give me a window. It only gives me a window if I consider it to be an abuse of the process of the Senate. I do not consider it to be an abuse because, as I said in my considered opinion again, this communication ought to have been debated before the Speaker, so that you could tell him like you are telling me now The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
So, the debate will proceed. Are you asking for a division?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, the Bill be amended by inserting the words “and licensed” immediately after the word “registered”.
I propose that we defer voting that so that we vote for all clauses.
Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting subclause (4) and substituting therefor the following new subclause: (4). Subject to the foregoing provisions of this section, in the evaluation of tenders by public entities, the criteria for assessing the technical and financial capability of the tenderers shall as may be prescribed by the accounting officer in the tender documents.
Mr. Chairman, Sir, I support Sen. Keter by adding that the two Clauses in respect of the Public Procurement and Disposal Bill have been discussed by The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
I cannot see any more interest. Members, I still see some names and I do not know if some Members want to speak. I will defer the putting of the Question to a later time.
That is the end regarding the Memorandum by His Excellency the President on Public Procurement and Asset Disposal Bill.
Mr. Chairman, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No. 139 I beg to move:- THAT the Committee of the Whole report progress on its consideration of the Presidential Memorandum on the Public Procurement and Asset Disposal Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 40 of 2014) and seek leave to sit again tomorrow.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report progress; that the Committee of the Whole has considered the Presidential Memorandum on the Public The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT the House do agree with the Committee in the said report.
Order, Sen. Sang. Please resume your seat.
Hon. Senators, we are now in the Committee of the Whole. We shall consider the Presidential Memorandum on the Public Audit Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 38 of 2014). Let us begin with the President’s recommendation on Clause 4.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 4 (2) of the Bill be amended by deleting the existing sub-clause and substituting therefor the following new sub-clause- (2) The Office shall comprise the Auditor –General as its statutory head and all other staff appointed by the Auditor-General as may be delegated in accordance with Article 234 (5) of the Constitution.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to second this Clause and raise the following--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Senator. Sen. Keter has moved, therefore, I will propose the Question.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, as I support this amendment, there were reservations that were raised regarding this particular Clause even in the mediation process. We raised certain reservations regarding the independence of the Auditor- General’s Office. The import and objection was as to whether the Auditor-General’s Office is being interfered with to the extent that the independence of the Auditor-General is threatened. However, in terms of an address through the Constitution, the feeling of the proposed amendment was that the Auditor-General’s office was not being reduced. Instead, the idea was that the two offices; both the Auditor-General’s office and the Public Service Commission be working together in terms of the staffing of the office of the Auditor-General. To that extent, it is necessary – as we pass this amendment through regulation – to ensure that the Auditor-General’s office remains independent. I beg to support.
Since there are no other contributors, I defer putting of the Question.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 8 of the Bill be amended by deleting paragraphs (a), (b), (c), (d), (h) and (j) and substituting therefor the following: Administrative (a) develop an organization structure and staffing Powers of the establishment for the office of the Auditor-General, Office of the subject to Article 234(5) of the Constitution; Auditor-General (b) subject to Article 234(5) of the Constitution, recruit and promote qualified and competent staff to perform the office’s functions; (c) subject to Article 234 (5) of the Constitution, exercise disciplinary control over staff; (d) subject to Article 234 (5) of the Constitution, develop human resource of the office; (h) subject to Articles 230 (4) (b) and 234 of the Constitution, determine the remuneration and benefits of each member of staff; (j) in addition to what is provided for under any other relevant law, develop and maintain a code of conduct and ethics for the office, specific to auditing, guided by the international code of practice, and code of ethics issued by the International Organization of Supreme Audit Institutions and in consultation with the Public Service Commission and the National Treasury;
Senator, just come and get some briefs. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, the argument on Clause 8 is the same. The proposed amendment is supposed to create cohesion in Government structure and in the governance of the Auditor-General’s Office and to ensure that it is properly staffed. In doing so – as we make the amendment that is necessary and crucial –the President should ensure that the Auditor-General’s Office remains independent with the support of the Public Service Commission.
Since there is no other contribution, I defer putting the Question.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, a new clause be inserted immediately after Clause 11 of the Bill as follows:- Acting Auditor- General 11 A. (1) Where: (a) the office of the Auditor- General becomes vacant; (b) the Auditor-General has been suspended in accordance with the Constitution (c) the appointment of a person as Auditor-General is pending; or (d) the Auditor – General is, for any reason unable to perform the function of his or her office, then, until a person is appointed to and has assumed the functions of that office in accordance with Section 11 above, or until the Auditor-General has resumed the performance of those functions, the Public Service Commission shall recommend the most senior officer in the office of the Auditor-General to the President to designate such a person as the acting Auditor –General (2) A person designated under subsection (1) shall meet the minimum qualifications for appointment to the office of the Auditor-General and shall serve for a period not exceeding ninety days. (3) When acting in terms of subsection (1), the acting Auditor-General shall have all the powers of the Auditor-General.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, it seems everyone agrees with what we are doing. The little I can say is that we expect the Auditor-General’s Office to be protected by both the Public Service Commission and the Executive. Therefore, I beg to support.
I defer putting of the Question. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 16 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (1) by inserting the expression “and 234 (5)” immediately after expression “230”
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to support.
I defer putting of the Question.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 19 (2) of the Bill be amended by: (a) inserting the words “review and” immediately after the words “year for”; and (b) deleting the words “with the Cabinet Secretary’s comments”
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to support.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to support.
I defer putting of the Question.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT a new Clause be inserted immediately after Clause 40 of the Bill to read as follows: Auditor-General not to question Government policy objective 40A. Notwithstanding the provisions of this Act, in an examination under this Act, the Auditor-General shall not question the merits of a policy objective of the national The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to support.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to support.
I defer putting of the Question.
Mr. Temporary, Chairperson, Sir, I beg move:- THAT, Clause 66 of the Bill be amended by deleting the words “Auditor- General” immediately after the word “The” and substitute therefor the words “Cabinet Secretary responsible for matters relating to finance”.
Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, it is necessary for us to understand this Clause because it is a good clause. It has to do with the fact that the Cabinet Secretary responsible for matters relating to finance is responsible for making regulations and that it should not be inconsistent with the Act in respect of this matter. Therefore, matters related to finance, whether they are being dealt with by the Attorney-General or anybody else, must be done in consultation with the Cabinet Secretary responsible for finance.
I defer putting the Question and ask the Mover to report the progress.
Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.139, I beg to move that the Committee of the Whole reports progress on its consideration of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
I ask the Chairperson to report.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to report progress; that the Committee of the Whole has considered the Presidential Memorandum on the Public Audit Bill (National Assembly Bill No.38 of 2014) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.
I ask the Mover to move.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report. I request Sen. Haji to second.
I can see one request. Proceed, Sen. Kagwe.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I know that we want to dispose of the matter, but the manner in which we have dealt with it is that we have taken the matter seriously and there is nothing we have taken lightly. It is in the spirit of the Constitution and strengthening our offices that we have supported the President’s Memorandum.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, apart from what my colleague here said, my reservation is in terms of management of what we intend to do or what the Bill will do; it is highly political. I expect that it will be straight forward. It shall not be misused to do anything that will not be in the interest of the public. We are here for the people and the people are there for us. Therefore, we are in our right mind to think that whatever we are doing is right. I agree with my friend here because everything was done constitutionally. I want the public out there to understand that there was no political pressure in this matter. It is in line with what the Constitution says. It is the intention of those in authority to see the work going on the way it is. As a party, our job is to stand with our party, the President and the Government. We support good ideas. We anticipate that things will be conducted and managed in the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Since there are no more people who are interested in contributing - mzee tried a bit. He said that the law is like a knife, after sharpening it, you just keep it in store.
We will defer this Order.
Who was on the Floor? Let us also defer that Order.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thought there are Senators who want to contribute.
No, I cannot see any request.
Where is the Mover?
Thank you Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise to support the Motion by the gracious Sen. Kittony. She came up with the Motion after realizing that many Kenyans, particularly those living in Nairobi and its environs, are going through agony because of the traffic jam, the cost it has been pushing into their pockets and also on their lives. Madam Temporary Speaker, when I looked at the Motion, I thought the Senator must have been an engineer, but only to realize that at one time she served as the Chairlady of Maendeleo ya Wanawake . I think she got a lot of experience to know what bothers the majority of us who live in urban centres and she is requesting in this Motion that, at least, roads need to be improved so that the city can be decongested. We should come up with new systems where we can have, if possible, other means of transport other than just public means and the passenger vehicles we find in Nairobi where may be the number of passenger vehicles are so many. Almost all of them are driven by single drivers without even somebody being given a lift in those vehicles. Madam Temporary Speaker, the Motion has come at the right time and I do believe what the Senator will do is to come up with a Bill so that she is able to move and make sure that the implementation part of it is done. Following the earlier plans when the City was planned by the “white” people and in the early 1960’s and 1970’s, people could really enjoy the rides in Nairobi. They could drive to see the High Rise Estate which was coming up that time, the Nairobi National Park, Uhuru Park and many other areas. But because of the traffic jam, that leisure is no longer there for anybody wanting to come to the city just for a visit. Madam Temporary Speaker, there are some cities that people go to, just to stroll around and enjoy themselves. For example, a city like Panama, at least you will go there and enjoy. Looking at what we have been going through in our city, very few people, even youngsters will want to come and watch movies like it used to be. Many other The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise to support this Motion and congratulate Sen. Kittony for her foresight in addressing this matter that is of concern to the entire nation because Nairobi is the capital city. While supporting this Motion and the regulations that have been proposed, the main cause of traffic jams on our roads in Nairobi today is indiscipline. There are things that we can legislate and those that we cannot. The issue of courtesy on our roads and general bad behavior exhibited by our drivers cannot be legislated. Some of these things relate to our culture as a people. When a society is indisciplined, the symbolism of that indiscipline is exhibited in its drivers, police officers and other people. Madam Temporary Speaker, unless we are prepared to face this issue head on, see our problems as they are and not as we would like to pretend that they are, if we know what the problem is, it is possible to resolve it. However, if we do not admit the problem, then it is very difficult for us to solve a problem that does not exist in our minds. It is good for us to admit that we are indisciplined drivers. As we expect the ElNino rains, traffic jams are bound to get worse because we are discourteous. We do not let other drivers pass even when we know that by blocking the other driver, on a T- junction, for instance, it does not help. It will not make you move faster because it will just delay the other person. It is necessary for us to invest in disciplining ourselves through legislation. When you go to western countries, for example, the United Kingdom or the United States of America (USA) and see that there is discipline, it is because the penalties for indiscipline are extremely high. I recall that Hon. Midiwo moved a Bill, in the last Parliament to create heavy penalties that would create deterrence of misuse or abuse of traffic laws. Madam Temporary Speaker, we have installed cameras that can help us in this practice. However, unless the cameras are used for serious purposes and to apprehend individuals who abuse the law, then they serve no purpose. The cameras can only serve the purpose of informing the authority of people who double park or overtake wrongly in traffic jams. This always happens. It is as if there are some people who are always in a hurry to get somewhere earlier than others, pay higher road fees than others or operate on different laws from others. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
You did not conclude by stating whether you support. I give you two seconds to make that statement.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I support.
Asante sana, Bi. Spika wa Muda kwa kunipa fursa hii, ili nami niunge mkono Hoja hii ya Sen. Kittony. Hoja hii imebobea kama mamangu, Zippora kwa sababu ni Hoja ya maana sana ambayo imechukua muda mrefu, na tujuavyo wakati ni mali. Lakini sisi hatuoni kama wakati ni mali kwa sababu muda mwingi sana tunaharibu brarabarani, muda mwingi sana hatujui tutafika salama ama vipi kwa sababu ukiangalia ule msongamano, haujui nani atakuzaba kofi au atakupiga risasi. Tulitembelea Uchina, na tulishangazwa kuona kuwa sera zao zinahimiza kila familia kuwa na mtoto mmoja. Tulijiuliza mbona hii nchi haina watu, ilhali tunasikia kwamba wamezaana sana. Tulishtuka sana tulipofika chini kuingia kwenye gari moshi zao, tuliukuta umati ambao hata hatujauona maishani, watu wengi sana. Lakini, jinsi Wakenya tulivyo, kila mtu anataka kuonekana kwamba ana gari. Magari yote lazima yaingie Mjini na pengine jamii moja ina magari matano; zote zinakuja kazini. Tukiangalia pia tunaona kwamba nidhamu imechangia sana. Unapoagangalia barabara, hazina nafasi. Hata barabara zikipanuliwa, bado msongamaono ni ule ule. Tufanye aje? Ukiona akina mama wamejifunga kibwebwe kama Sen. Kittonyi, ujue kwamba kuna mchezo, mbao anataka kucheza. Hoja hii ina maufaa sana. Msongamanao huu unasababisha vifo kwa sababu ambulensi ikitokea hujui mgonjwa yuko mahututi kiasi gani. Wagonjwa wengi hupoteza uhai barabarani. Muda pia hupotezwa. Hakuna anayetamani awe mgonjwa na apitishwe kwa barabara yenye msongamano wa magari. Kaunti nyingi zimenunua ambulensi, na kwa hivyo, barabarani ni kelele ishara ya mgonjwa mahututi. Lakini kwa sababu ya msongamano wa magari, hatapishwa. Hoja hii itasaidia wagonjwa wasife njiani bila kufikishwa hospitalini. Msongamano barabarani huchelewesha wagonjwa na wanaweza wakaishiwa na hewa kwenye vifaa vya usaidizi. Madam Spika wa Muda, kuna siku tumekaa barabarani hadi alfajiri. Ni kilomita chache lakini kulikuwa kunanyesha na pia msongamano wa magari. Ukifika nyumbani, una saa mbili pekee ya kulala. Wakati mwingi tuko barabarani hadi watoto wamesahau sura zetu kwa vile tukitoka alfajiri, tunarudi saa nne usiku. Tumepoteza muda mwingi kwa kusafiri barabarani. Wakati mwingine unatamani kutembea kwa mguu. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
I now call upon the Mover to reply.
Thank you Madam Temporary Speaker. I take this opportunity to reply and to thank all the Members who have supported this Motion. It has generated a lot of interest and contributions, given its gravity. A lot of contributions are about accidents, insecurity, scarcity of time and time wasted to reach offices and to take patients to hospitals. It has been proposed by a number of speakers that a Bill should be drafted. We will do a research and a write up on the enactment of a Bill to help alleviate the traffic problems. The enacting of legislation will support a number of issues in its environs and the paralysis we are seeing in our cities. Madam Temporary Speaker, we see quite a number of encouraging situations such as better traffic lights when we visit other cities of the world. The Nairobi County should adopt such modern systems of traffic lights. When you visit our neighbouring county Rwanda, you will find that Kigali has better facilities on roads than we have. The challenge that we have is the policies that I have mentioned. I will take the challenge and bring up a Bill to address that. In the meantime, we should enact a legislation to allow the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
We do not have the numbers. Therefore, I expected you to request that we put the Question another day.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I want to read paragraph (2) Paragraph (2): “The Speaker, may, on the request of a Senator, defer putting the question to the following day---“
Please, make reference to the particular Standing Order. Could you mention it?
Madam Temporary Speaker,
Order, Senator. For the sake of the record, I would like you to mention the specific Standing Order that you are making reference to. Just mention the specific Standing Order. For example, according to Standing Order No.---
Madam Temporary Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order No.54 (3), I request that putting of the Question be deferred.
That is quite in order. Your request is granted. We will put the question on Wednesday, next week.
Next Order! The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. Murungi is not in the House. Therefore, the Motion is also deferred.
Hon. Senators, there being no other business, the Senate stands adjourned until Tuesday, 3rd November, 2015, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.15 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.