(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Hon. Senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence, in the Speaker’s Gallery this afternoon, of visiting Hansard officers of Kilifi County Assembly who are here on a study tour. I request each member of staff to stand when called out so that they may be acknowledged in the Senate tradition. They are:- 1. Mr. George Kumbatha 2. Ms. Matilda Mwendwa 3. Ms. Peris Kache 4. Mr. Raphael Rimba 5. Mr. Samuel Mwadziwe On behalf of the Senate and on my own behalf, I welcome them to the Senate and wish them well for the remainder of their stay. Thank you.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Yes, you can go ahead but be brief. Please use the microphone.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to encourage more delegations to come and see what we do because more often than not we are mistaken for being a sleeping giant yet we do a lot of work particularly in the counties. These could be our ambassadors out there to tell others that the Senate is comprised of very serious people who are all geared towards uplifting the name of this Republic. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Karaba. I have no eyes at the back of my head.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am just reminding you. As the Chairperson of the Committee on Education, I can see students behind you.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The Chairperson of the Committee on Education, my friend, Sen. Karaba, has drawn your attention to the presence in the gallery behind you of students from St. Elizabeth Bar Korwa Girls’ Primary School in Kisumu County, who are visiting the National Assembly and the Senate today. I had already communicated to the Clerk to the extent that we should give due recognition to these 70 pupils from St. Elizabeth Bar Korwa Girls’ Primary School.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Maybe, you are a bit impatient, but I appreciate your enthusiasm.
Asante Bw. Spika wa Muda kwa nafasi hii. Kama unavyojua, mwamba ngoma huvutia kwake. Naomba pia kukaribisha wageni wa Kaunti ya Kilifi ambao wamekuja hapa kujionea na kusoma zaidi ili wanaporudi nyumbani wawe wata tenda ipasavyo.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I also would like to join the rest of my colleagues in welcoming the Kilifi County Assembly delegation. We have been to Kilifi County twice. I am happy that they have come to the Senate to learn and see how we are operating. I wish them a good stay in Nairobi and safe journey when they go back home.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I have appreciated the presence of our visitors on behalf of everybody else. Let us move on to the next Order. We have a lot of work to do today.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, yesterday you made a ruling that we must get a response from the Chairperson of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights concerning the Petition by Kirinyaga residents on the issue of the Mihiriga Kenda . I do not know whether this is the appropriate time for me to interject or this can come up later?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Chairperson, Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, Sen. Wako, you must always pay attention. Please look at the HANSARD; there is an issue raised by Sen. Karaba and you will reply later. I want to know whether you are ready over the issue or not. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if it is the issue that was raised yesterday, I have gone through it. The report is yet to be finalized, but I will ask them to do so quickly because the Committee has finalized that issue.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. We can accommodate that. When the report is ready, it will be tabled. Next Order!
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Karaba. You do not speak before I give you permission. Proceed.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if you heard the Chairperson, that is the same story he gave yesterday. I thought the report would be tabled today. That is why I thought he was here this early.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): To my knowledge I do not think there was any story being given. I thought they were facts. Next Order!
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Wednesday, 2nd December, 2015:- Report on the Basic Education Regulations, 2015.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Wako, I thought you had a report to lay on the Table of the House today. What is going on? This is on the extension of the mandate of the Commission for the Implementation of the Constitution (CIC). You have to lay the paper on the table first.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I apologise for the confusion. REPORT ON THE EXTENSION OF THE MANDATE OF THE CIC I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Wednesday, 2nd December, 2015:- Report on the extension of the mandate of the Commission for the Implementation of the Constitution (CIC) by a term of not less than two years.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. That is how it is done. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, pursuant to Standing Order No.30(3)(b), the Senate resolves to sit on Thursday, 3rd December, 2015 from 9.00 a.m. to 1.00 p.m. ADOPTION OF REPORT ON EXTENSION OF MANDATE OF THE CIC
Mr. Temporary Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, this House adopts the report of the Standing Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights on the extension of the mandate of the Commission for the Implementation of the Constitution (CIC) laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 2nd December, 2015.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to give notice of the following Motions. ADOPTION OF THE CPAIC REPORT ON THE INQUIRY INTO THE FINANCIAL OPERATIONS OF HOMA BAY COUNTY EXECUTIVE THAT, this House adopts the report of the Sessional Committee on the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (CPAIC) into the inquiry of the financial operations of Homa Bay County Executive for the Financial Year 2013/2014 that was laid on the Table of this House on Wednesday, 4th November, 2015. RESOLUTION OF THE HOUSE TO GRANT LEAVE TO SENATE STAFF TO RECORD STATEMENTS REGARDING THE FAILURE BY THE GOVERNOR FOR KAKAMEGA TO APPEAR BEFORE THE CPAIC WHEREAS, Article 125 of the Constitution empowers any House of Parliament and any of its committees to summon any person to appear before it for purposes of giving evidence or providing information; The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): The Secretariat should treat that matter as urgent. Next order!
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise under the Standing Order No.45(2)(a) to bring to the attention of this august Senate a matter of serious concern with inmmense consequences to the health sector in Busia County. Health services is a devolved function and this Senate, as a guarantor of Devolution representing and protecting---
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I hope that you know you have not more than 10 minutes.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as I stand here before you, 63 health facilities in Busia County comprising of one county referral hospital, seven sub county hospitals and 55 health centres and dispensaries have been closed. Whereas we have witnessed in many counties health workers going on strike, these strikes have been settled within a week or at most 10 days. Busia County health workers’ strike has been on for the last three weeks with no sign of being settled soon. On that note, I have some good news to report. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the strike has caused immense loss of lives and meant that the people of Busia County can die if there get snake bites, Malaria, Typhoid, Dysentery, food poising or complicated birth. The matter is, therefore, urgent. In any civilized society, no life should be lost or a right to life violated on account of lack of access to health care services or medical treatment. This matter deserves immediate and urgent attention. I must say that I have been in discussions at the local level. I have just received information on my iPad gadget that common sense has now prevailed and an agreement on return to work formula reached for the health workers to end the strike at 4 p.m today. I, therefore, wish to congratulate the health workers led by their two unions; the Kenya National Union of Nurses and the Kenya Medical Practitioners, Pharmacists and Dentists’ Union (KMPDU). I congratulate the county government’s officials who were involved in the actual negotiation; the county secretary, acting chief officer of health and the acting chief officer of public service and also the Ministry of Labour who were involved in this exercise as well as some Members of the county assembly. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I have one correction, Sen. Wako. I advised you to make that Statement under Standing Order No 45(2)(a), but you quoted a different section. For purposes of the HANSARD, can you make that clarification?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that is true. In fact, in my remarks, I mentioned that the correct the Standing Order No.45(2)(a).
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You all know the regulations on that the Standing Order number, I, therefore, do not expect any further comments on the issue of Sen. Wako. What is it, Sen. Khaniri.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am not challenging your ruling, but I would just like to bring to your attention that Sen. Wako made this Statement under the Standing Order No.45(2)(a). If it was Standing Order No.46, you would not have allowed us to make comments.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Please, proceed, you are right. However, you should be brief because he says that the problem has already been resolved.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, allow me to hail my elder brother, the Senator for Busia County for coming up with this Statement. I would like to state that health service is one of the most important functions or roles that have been bestowed on the county governments. It is important that county governments carry out this role diligently because the success of devolution will be judged according to the way they perform this particular role. I encourage governors to embrace dialogue with the health staff. The strikes that we are hearing about from various counties like the recent one in Vihiga County are not very encouraging. I encourage them to embrace staff so that we The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would also like to appreciate Sen.Wako’s comments on the Busia County case. I would like to point out that this is not only a problem in Busia County, but a national problem. Many counties are facing a similar problem. They have either solved them temporarily or not at all. I will appreciate if the Committee on Health can do a nationwide visit to counties to establish the status of health worker, especially the nurses.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I laud the statement by the Senator for Busia County. It reminds me that in my other life, when I was in charge of the Association for Family Planning of Kenya, as the medical in charge, I used to operate in Busia District Hospital.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): How many lives have you lived?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have lived several lives, including the one of bull fighting. It saddens me that just a few years ago, when I was working at that hospital, it was the preferred hospital not only to the people of Busia but to even Ugandans. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, today when the health docket is being managed by the governor together with Dr. Maurice Simiyu, a highly qualified doctor, it is sad that this county government of Busia is unable to work with medical personnel. It reminds us of how in this same county, 20 children were paralyzed because of questionable vaccines used at the health facility. This House should take this matter seriously so that we send two clear messages to all governors of Kenya that if health fails in any or all counties, devolution will have failed because health is one of the basic things that devolution was expected to fix. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, secondly, I want to differ with my colleagues who are appealing to the county governor to work with medical personnel. I want to differ with them to this extent that county governors should not think that they can be bossy around doctors of medicine. It is their privilege that such highly talented and qualified people are working under their tutelage. They should, therefore, cultivate a working relationship that recognizes that doctors are not subservient to governors - some of them whose qualifications we are not too sure. Thank you.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I would like to caution the House about the advice that it is giving to the Committee on Health on this issue. I think it will be foolhardy to expect the Health Committee to go around every county and find out what the health problems are. They will spend the rest of their time in this Senate just doing that. My advice, having been Minister for Medical Services is that these doctors, nurses and pharmacists have their associations and unions who are based in Nairobi who really know the problems. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, to begin with, the Committee should meet with the Ministry, the Chairperson of the health docket among the governors and these unions and associations; some of which are the Kenya Medical Association, Kenya Association of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I would like to hail the people of Busia who are very patriotic and have made a resolve to sort out their problems. Our Committee – I must say that we are the majority in the Chamber this afternoon – had planned to have a meeting with the four stakeholders; the Council of Governors, the Ministry of Health and the Dentists and Medical Practitioners Board and it is in the pipeline. Very soon, we are going to meet and look at health problems in the whole country. Our Committee has been very active and we are concerned with what is happening. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, what the Senator and the people of Busia have done this afternoon is commendable and the others should emulate them. This is because health is a necessity for every Kenyan to have the right to good health and good facilities. We thank you and appreciate the people of Busia. We as the four stakeholders are going to have a meeting very soon to look at the health problems in the country. Thank you.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I do not want to gag anybody but be brief. I have only two more on this issue.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for the opportunity. In my assessment on where governors are going wrong, this is undeniably the biggest function that has been devolved. If this is the biggest function that has been devolved, it only follows that this should constitute the highest bulk of their budgets. Most of them are not able to draw that correlation. You look into many of the county budgets and hardly do you see that health reflects the highest expenditure. I think they are setting themselves up for a crisis when they do not give commensurate allocations of their county budgets to health. Generally, we cannot deny that there is a problem and we need to fix it and the only institution that can fix it is this Senate.
Mr. Temporary speaker, Sir, as we talk about health, we should note that staff at most of the counties’ facilities had downed their tools. We have heard quite a lot of strikes in various counties including Kirinyaga where doctors and nurses were even threatened with the sack. That looks like it is the only language these people hear before they get to work. I think there should be a better formula of addressing this problem because, to me, it is a national problem. Mr. Temporary speaker, Sir, we are having quite a number of counties taking up the issue on medical services. Since this is a devolved function, and it is one of the largest functions yet to be devolved to the county level, and they still want other functions to be transferred, we need to find out whether there is a problem between the national Government which should have also devolved funds accompanying the function before The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Karaba, you know what the Constitution says about devolving functions. There is a timeline for each and you cannot interfere unless the concerned county goes into negotiation with the national Government. So, just read your Constitution properly. Now, I take the sentiments of Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’ Nyong’o quite seriously on this issue. It will not be possible for the Committee on Health to begin making trips to all the 47 counties but I advice the Committee to be on the lookout and take action as early as possible whenever such a situation threatens to arise.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'- Nyong'o, could you make your remark again?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to thank you for officially welcoming St. Elizabeth Bar Korwa Girls Primary School from my county, which is prosperous and does well. They have been in the National Assembly for three days and we expect to be with them for the whole week. I welcome and thank them.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Let us continue with Statements. Statement (a) was sought by Sen. Wetangula, but I do not see him here. Let us to go to Statement (b). Committee on Education, are you ready? NON-PAYMENT OF SEPTEMBER SALARIES TO TEACHERS
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as you might be aware, there was a reshuffle involving the Cabinet Secretary for Education. The answer which was signed earlier had to be vetted again by the new Cabinet Secretary. It has not been possible to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. This is a very sad day. I want to inform the Chairperson that the Ministry is not about individuals but structures. I requested for this Statement on 19th October, 2015, which is about two months ago. Payment of teachers is a matter of national interest. It is very clear that this Government has no plan or intention to settle this matter or dispute with the teachers. Is he in order to tell us that there have been changes in the Ministry and that is why the Statement is not ready, when I requested for this Statement on 19th of October; an issue that should have been taken as a matter of national importance and given priority?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): He is completely out of order. But the Chairperson has said that he has the Statement with him now.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have it but it is not signed by the present Cabinet Secretary.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! Are you ready to present it now or not?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. This issue relates to policy and not individuals and changes which take place within Government. He has the information which we need. Could you allow him to give us the information?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Karaba, you are completely out of order. I now order you to give the Statement.
Here is the Statement of the non-payment of teacher’s September salaries ---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. This is the Senate of the Republic of Kenya. The Statement has not been supplied to me or the clerks, as it is our tradition, to ascertain its authenticity. We cannot just take any statement. Since we have many other Statements, could the Chairperson take this opportunity to share the Statement with the Clerk-at-the-Table and I, so as to ascertain the authenticity and for me to acquaint myself with the Statement for further interrogation?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. In the Bible it is said that you should not remove a speck from your neighbour’s eye if you have one in your eyes. Even workers in our offices have not been paid for three months. Why are we more concerned about salaries of other people, when workers in our offices are suffering? We are about to go on Christmas and they have had no salaries for three months.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'- Nyong'o! Whereas you have raised a very legitimate issue, it completely negates the demand of Sen. Khaniri, which is legitimate on the Floor of this House. I order that---
Order Sen. Khaniri. Can you listen? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): If it is on the same issue I have already ordered. What is it, Sen. Hassan?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, since you acknowledged that what Sen.(Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o has raised is a legitimate point and it is a matter that concerns all of us and our morality today is challenged because our staff have not been paid for two to five months, is there a way that, through our Standing Orders, he can prosecute that matter, so that we can compel the authorities to pay our people? It is unfair, wrong and immoral.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o is a seasoned politician and he understands our Standing Orders very well. He knows that there are opportunities to do that using our Standing Orders. I believe he will do it since he has raised it. Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o, could you raise that Motion in a proper way and I will set time for that?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We all know that the newly appointed Cabinet Secretaries have not taken office and the old ones are still in office. Is it in order for Sen. Karaba to say that there is no Cabinet Secretary in that Ministry?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Actually, it is you who is out of order because you are raising the issue when I have already ruled on it.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, not on this particular one.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order. Have a seat, please. The next Statement is from the Senate Majority Leader on the issue raised by Sen. Khaniri. CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THE DEATH OF MR. ALEX MADAGA
(Sen. (Prof) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it was agreed yesterday that the Vice Chairperson of Committee on Health will issue the Statement. She is ready.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Zipporah, I hope you have a summary of the Statement.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am Sen. Kittony and not Zipporah.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): My apologies, Sen. Zipporah Kittony.
I have the Statement as requested by Sen. Khaniri on the Circumstances surrounding the death of Mr. Alex Madaga. The questions were:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. I hope the intervention will be brief and to the point. Sen. Kittony, please, listen keenly because questions are being directed to you.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, could I even be allowed to take water? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Take water, sen. Kittony.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, listening to this answer, you even totally get discouraged asking any supplementary questions because it looks like nothing good can come from this particular Government. The story of Alex Madaga is a very sad story; a story of a young man with a promising future and a sole bread winner who lost his life through some negligence of some hospitals that she has named here. It is even more sad that after the incident happened the Government showed no remorse. There was no Government support, no representative at the burial, not even a message of condolences from the official of the Government. It is as if nothing has happened. I guess it is because of where Alex Madaga comes from in this country. To this Government, some people are more important than others. It is very sad, indeed. It is a big shame to this Government. However, let me just ask two supplementary. Now that the Chairperson has admitted that the preliminary inquiry Committee found the hospitals involved culpable, or blameworthy and she says the matter has been referred to the Professional Conduct Committee for action to be taken, we want her to give an undertaking to this House that she will come and report back to us what action was taken against the two hospitals that she has named that were culpable. They clearly contravened Article 43(2) of the Constitution, denying a person emergency medical treatment. We, as a Senate, want to know what action will be taken because you have told us that action will be taken. Secondly, I was very specific; we wanted to know what kind of support the Government will give to this family. This is a very poor family. The young man was a sole breadwinner and he left a young son in high school. We wanted the Government to give some assurance that they will even give support as we await the outcome, for the young man to go to school in January. What support will this Government give to the young family of the late Alex Madaga who lost his life through negligence?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Take more questions.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I want to ask a specific question. The late Alex Madaga, lost his life several months ago. Listening to the Chairperson of the Committee she says a charge sheet was being prepared against the two hospitals which were found culpable. When does the 21 days commence and when does she expect them to end?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, whereas, I have no issues on the fact that the Constitution says Bills concerning counties can originate from the Senate, and any Bill can originate from the National Assembly, I listened with dismay. I want the Chair to advise the Cabinet secretary (CS) in charge of Health, that where substances of functions are devolved, it is only prudent that those Bills are brought for the determination of this House first. When I hear her say that the proposed Health law is currently under review in the National Assembly whereas we know the bulk of the function of Health is devolved, it is her Minister who does not know the place of the Constitution and functions in this country.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! Let us limit our comments to the matter before the House. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. First, it is sad that we are discussing the life of Alex Madaga. Indeed, this is not animal farm where some animals are more equal than others; and that a person who dies in such hands as explained by the Senator can be from any community and any circle. It is good for us to give this person who died due respect by not diverting from the main issue. With all due respect to my brother Sen. Khaniri and my condolences to his constituents, what is the policy framework that can be put into place to ensure that this does not happen to anybody? Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I am only concerned that you are not finding Sen. Khaniri’s concern or his constituent to be important or serious.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Sorry. Perhaps, I did not express myself sufficiently. The first thing I did was to condole with the family of Alex Madaga and, indeed, sympathized with my brother, Sen. Khaniri.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I had risen on a point of order, but you did not catch my eye. I want to inform my brother Sen. Khaniri that there is no provision in the Standing Orders that obligates the Government to compensate all the patients who die in public hospitals. However, the Government can take disciplinary action against all those public officers who were involved in this case.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We represent people here and as I talk, I know what I am talking about. I was very specific, I said and I believe that Madaga’s family was not assisted because of where he comes from. We saw this during the Garissa attack, where victims were treated differently while the victims from another community were given full support during the funerals.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is not in order?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Sen. Sonko says the Government supports some people and not others. It is clear that some animals are more equal than others.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! I know it is a sensitive issue, but let us be concerned and not distort facts.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! Cool down. Sen. Khaniri, let us have some decorum even if you are very much affected, order must be maintained at all cost. However, I might be forced to invoke some sections of the Standing Orders to your own detriment. I do not want to do so because this is an emotive issue.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! I am talking and I am on my feet. Please, choose your words carefully; we are all adult Senators. So, let us behave so. Sen. Mbuvi, are you through? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, can the Chair clarify – in concurrence to Sen. Kagwe’s clarifications - the measures the Ministry is taking to ensure that such an occurrence does not recur in future, considering that we have limited Intensive Care Unit (ICU) facilities in our public hospitals countrywide?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): We can take two more questions.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I was worried earlier when the questions were raised. I do not think there is any single Senator in this House who takes this matter lightly whether he or she is a Member of CORD or Jubilee.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Sen. Lesuuda! Ask your question because I have already ruled on that. Do not revisit it because it will raise emotions.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I hope that both sides of the House take this matter seriously. The issue of the late Alex Madaga is one that all of us were aware of. We want to know the timelines of some of the things that were asked by Sen. Khaniri and what measures will be put in place to deter professionals from taking such matters lightly. I also agree with Sen. Mbuvi on the need to know the measures that the Ministry is taking to have more ICU facilities in our referral hospitals. The excuse in Madaga’s case was the unavailability of ICU facilities.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, sorry I do not want to contribute on that. I am sorry.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Well, be careful with your dispatch box. When you press the button, the Chair is called to attention.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in as much as we condemn the actions taken by the hospital, there are many hospitals in Kenya where as you get to the casualty, the first thing they want to know is whether the patient has money even before they know the name of the patient. They want to know whether the patient has enough money and also the nature of the insurance cover, if any. They will not admit a patient before a deposit is paid. We need a clear-cut policy from the Ministry of Health on whether it is after the deposit is paid that a patient will receive medical attention or that one can be treated and allowed to pay later.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on a point of order. I hope the Senate listens to me carefully on this issue. Is the Vice Chairperson of the Committee on Health aware that before I left the Ministry, we had developed a policy and a Bill on the National Ambulatory and Emergency Services which will address the questions that Senators Kagwe and Mbuvi have raised? If so, why is it that we are trying to reinvent the wheel when there is already a comprehensive National Ambulatory and Emergency Services Bill and policy that the Ministry should be implementing? Further, this Committee should know that without implementing a comprehensive social health insurance scheme, the problems we are experiencing with emergency will continue to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): If you listened, Sen. Kittony, Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o has answered 50 per cent of your questions. I hope you were listening.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. It is quite evident that many hospitals are turning away patients at will while the Constitution requires that we give medical services to those in need. What measures is the Government putting in place to ensure that no citizen is denied emergency medical attention in all hospitals?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I hope everyone listens when everybody raises his or her concerns on the Statement. There is the rule of repetition and you have to be careful not to repeat what has been said before because of the irrelevancy that it depicts. I allow Sen. Kittony to answer those ones first and we will go to round two, if your concerns have not been addressed.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I sympathize with the whole situation. When we read the Report in the Committee, it was clear that there was negligence and it was not satisfactory. I appreciate the mood of the House and, therefore, we will go back and seek further clarifications and more information so that we get a satisfactory answer. It is a right of every citizen to get medical attention in this country under the Constitution. On the issue raised by Sen. Hassan, it is the prerogative of the Cabinet Secretary or the executive to commit the Bill to either House. We will endeavour to ensure that more information is provided to you. The questions that you have all raised are valid and the Committee will go back and bring more information in the next sitting. There is no mention of the deceased’s family and, therefore, we will inquire what happened to the hospitals; the compensation, among others. We have noted everything. Thank you.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): There are two more pressing questions. Although you have said that you will seek answers, it is better that you receive more questions from two other Members.
Asante, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Tumeambiwa kwamba hatimaye Bw. Madaga alilazwa kwenye hospitali ya Rufaa ya Kenyatta. Je, ni daktari wangapi ambao walimhudumia marehemu Madaga? Hakuna hata mmoja ambaye ametajwa kwenye hii Ripoti. Ni kina nani ambao walimhudumia marehemu Madaga akiwa hali mahututi?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this Statement is signed by the Cabinet Secretary (CS), James Macharia. He was in this Chamber fielding questions from Senators. I recall that we raised the issue of the Kshs38 billion that was used by the Jubilee Government and the President announced that specialised medical equipment had been acquired. Amongst the equipment were beds for the Intensive Care Unit (ICU). I request that you direct further that the Committee does not seek for answers, but we forward these questions to the CS to come and face us squarely. When he comes, I would like him to tell us how many ICU beds have since been purchased as a result of the Kshs38 billion that was spent. We know that out of the Kshs38 billion only Kshs20 The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you have made your point.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I stand by it.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale!
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is my Senator really in order to say that Kshs18 billion was siphoned? It is important for facts to be brought forward. Since the CS is being summoned, it would be very important for the Member to table facts about the Kshs18 billion and say why and who siphoned the money, so that the people responsible can be dealt with by the Ethics and Anti- Corruption Commission (EACC).
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! This is not a kangaroo court. Please, take your seat.
As far as I am concerned, you have not been asked to substantiate to this House, as per our Standing Order No.94. So, hold your peace. However, you have been challenged that on the day – subject to my ruling which I am about to do – the CS comes here, you should have information to challenge him on the Kshs18 billion.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! I rule that the Committee on Health should invite the CS for Health as soon as possible for a full House Committee, to answer all the questions that have been raised on the Floor of the House today and many more that might be of challenge on the case of Mr. Madaga. What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale? I hope you will not revisit the issue, because I am going to throw you out.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We have spoken strongly on issues of corruption before. I want to assure Sen. Elachi that when the CS comes, I will face him and prove that the money was siphoned.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, please, respect the Chair totally. That is enough time on that issue. I will defer all the other statements because we have spent a lot of time and it is now 4.00 p.m. Our Standing Orders stipulates that the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Because of the numbers, I will also defer Order Nos. 8, 9 and 10. I also step down Order No.11, which will follow Order No.12.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Is the Senate Majority Leader or his representative here?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was to hold brief for the Senate Majority Leader.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is it, Sen. Murungi?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on behalf of the Senate Majority Leader, I beg to move the following Motion: THAT, pursuant to Standing Order No.30 (3) (b), the Senate resolves to meet on Thursday, 3rd December, 2015, from 9.00 a.m. to 1.00 p.m. The purpose of this Motion is to enable us dispose of some urgent and important business before we go on recess. Among the business that we intent to dispose of, especially tomorrow morning, is the Report on the Kenya Airways, which Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o and his Committee worked very hard to produce. The very able Senator for Mombasa, Sen. Hassan, was also a Member of the Committee. It is in the interest of the country and, indeed, this House to know the findings of the Committee before we go on recess. There is also the Report on the extension of the tenure of the Commission for the Implementation of the Constitution (CIC), which constitutionally comes to an end at the close of this year. That has been a very important Commission and we would like to know what the thinking of the Senate is regarding whether or not the mandate of the Commission should be extended in view of the various challenges that this country has experienced in implementation of the new Constitution. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is also the issue that has been raised by the “bullfighter” Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, which is allowing the Senate staff to record some statements with the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP). It is a matter which he alluded to and it is good for us to--- There is also the issue that was raised by Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o as to whether or not our staff will be paid. They are also entitled to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. Wangari, I see your intervention. What is the matter?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I think the lawyers talk about something called res ipsa loquitur: that there are some things which speak for themselves. In view of the importance of the agenda items before us, I think it is only fair that we create a session tomorrow morning so that these issues can be canvassed and determined by the Senate. With those few remarks, I beg to move. I request the Senate Majority Leader to second.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to second this Motion. This Motion was discussed between the Senate Minority Leader and I yesterday and it was agreed that it is important for us – given that we will be proceeding for recess tomorrow – to have a morning session to discuss, among other things, the report of the ad hoc Committee of the Kenya Airways. As Members know, Kenya Airways has not been doing very well. There were reports as recently as two days ago that the airline is even unable to pay workers. The Senate ad hoc Committee that was chaired by Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o did a wonderful job. They had extensive recommendations which we will be happy to hear when they table their Report. The other thing that is time bound is the proposed extension of the time of the Commission for Implementation of the Constitution (CIC). As Members are aware, the Commission’s term ends in December this year. Therefore, it is important for the Senate to pronounce itself on that matter before we proceed on recess. For those reasons as well as the ones advanced by the Mover of the Motion, I urge hon. Senators to support this resolution. I second.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): This is not a Motion affecting counties. Therefore, I will put the question.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I again, have the permission of the Senate Majority Leader to move the following Motion which is No. 13 on the Order Paper. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion: AWARE that Regulations for the County Monitoring, Evaluation and Impact Assessment Fund are in the process of being gazetted; Further aware that the Regulations provide for a Senate Select Committee to administer the Fund; Now, therefore, the Senate resolves to appoint the following Senators to the Senate Sessional Committee on County Monitoring, Evaluation and Impact Assessment Fund:- 1. Sen. Kiraitu Murungi 2. Sen. (Prof.) John Lonyangapuo 3. Sen. Stephen Sang 4. Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki Karue 5. Sen. Adan Fatuma Dullo 6. Sen. George Khaniri 7. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior 8. Sen. Boy Juma Boy 9. Sen. (Dr.) Agnes Zani Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first, in moving the Motion, I would like to remind my colleagues, that you are all aware that we have been involved in a long and difficult struggle to try to raise some resources to enable the Senate perform some functions under Article 96 of the Constitution, basically oversighting the funds allocated to county governments from the national resources. We sought an initial fund of Kshs1 billion to be allocated to the Senate for the purposes of monitoring, evaluation and impact assessment of the funds that have been allocated to various counties. This exercise is very important because there has been massive looting, theft and wastage of funds at the county level under the supervision of some of our governors, giving us what is now popularly known as “devolution of corruption”. For this country to play its rightful role in safeguarding the interest of our counties, it is very important that this fund is set aside for us to enable us know what is happening in our counties. To cut the long story short, I would like to inform Senators that finally there is some light at the end of the tunnel. The Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC) is meeting on Friday this week. From the report that I have heard, it has been agreed in principle that the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC) will do an internal reallocation of its funds, to give us some of these money so that we can start the monitoring and evaluation exercises within our counties. The Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC) is only waiting for approval of this request from the Treasury. They have already written a letter to the Cabinet Secretary (CS) – Treasury. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like my colleagues to join me in thanking the leadership of the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC) Chairman, Justin Muturi, and the Members of the Parliamentary Service Commission, including our very able The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will not take too long in seconding this Motion. Simple as it appears, it is one of the most important Motions that this House will ever pass to alter in some way the status of the Senate and strengthen its role, which is oversight. As you are aware, up to now, Senators do not have any funds to exercise their role of oversight throughout the counties. Our terms as it relates to offices and so on, are just the same as Members of the National Assembly and yet we have to oversee, for example, in my county, seven constituencies. If you have seven constituencies to oversight, how do you do it from one office like a Member of the National Assembly? Therefore, I commend the Mover of this Motion. This has more or less been his brain child. He has tried a number of initiatives which I hope will see the light of the day, particularly during the referendum on having our own commission. This is very innovative; if one door closes, another door opens. He has found a way in which we can access the funds through this. So, I wish to commend him for the initiative he has taken, particularly he has had a single minded purpose on this issue. I also wish to commend our Members on the PSC, who without them, however noble the ideas we might have had, they would not have seen the light of day and to come to a situation where the PSC, chaired by the Speaker of the National Assembly now agrees. That agreement could only have been pressurized by our Members sitting in the Commission; Sen. Mugo, her good friend and Sen. Musila who is not here. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! It is procedural. Can you say the right words? Say: “I beg to second.”
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to second this Motion as requested by the Mover, none other than the King of Meru. He has graciously asked me to second this Motion.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order! Can you have a seat? Now that you broke the law, you freeze there as I talk so that you may remember not to do that again. The other Member should freeze; stand and freeze.
Very well. It makes me happy that way. Both of you can sit.
I am still standing. Please, sit quickly. Very well, I now wish to propose the question.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I also wish to take this opportunity to support this Motion. It has been born out of our very bitter experience as we, Senators, watch the wastage of resources that we have allocated to our counties. This is the best thing that could happen to this House for it to have some muscle and position in which we can monitor the usage of the resources that this House votes and allocates to the counties. The passage of this Motion and its support is very important. It is important we do it urgently because the wastage and the misuse of resources in the counties is an ongoing process. This is because every minute that we delay on this, there is further wastage of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I stand to support this Motion and congratulate the Mover and the Committee Members who were involved. I hope that what they have told us will be true after 4th December 2015. We have had these intentions for a long time. Now that it has come to fruition, we are grateful that we can at least see what the King of Meru told us that there is light at the end of the tunnel. We are observing keenly and hope that it will bear fruits. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have had a lot of problems, particularity with embarrassment. We have been isolated and as lawmakers of the highest order, the Senate, we looked helpless when we saw people waste resources, but we did not have the muscle, power and office to tell them off. This is an indication that the Senate will do its assignments which is to provide oversight. However, we cannot do so without what has already been passed. I thank the Committee. I hope as we go on recess, what will be done in that period will be translated from what we will receive at the end of the day.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I congratulate the Senators who came up with this idea which will benefit our country and the Senate. It has not been easy getting this. We have fought for the last two years. I, therefore, thank the Chairman of the Parliamentary Service Commission and all the commissioners because we lobbied for quite some time until they understood the role of the Senate in the new dispensation of the Constitution. I would like this Motion to be passed without delay and the Ad hoc Committee to hit the road fast because this Thursday or Friday, it will be gazetted. I hope that the money will be provided before the end of the year.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would also like to add my voice in congratulating the Chairperson and all Committee Members. I would also like to thank the Chairperson of PSC and all the commissioners who were very supportive. There was no doubt that this fund is needed and the Commission appreciated the work of the Senators. I feel that this will enhance the Senator’s mandate. It will also help the Senate to achieve her mandate. The commissioners were very much concerned with the small percentage that is allocated to the nominated Senators. It was their feeling that the Senate will review that issue and add more resources to the nominated Senators because they also have a big constituency to oversee. I believe that my colleagues are listening keenly and that they will be sensitive to that issue.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I support this Motion and thank all those who have been involved up to this stage, particularly our representatives in the PSC. Looking at the list, I can see Sen. Murungi’s name; he has been on the forefront and I thank him for steering this matter ably. This fund will go a long way in ensuring that we deliver on our mandate of oversighting counties and being full representatives of our counties and county governments. This fund is not there to fund Senators for any other thing other than ensuring that there are better services for the people who elected us. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion noting that, initially, we kind of had a false start in the creation of this fund. However, now that the PSC has deemed it fit to make sure that there are funds for it, then it is only fair to have a Committee to oversight this. If we are now all handling the funds, we must have a committee within the Senate which will be over sighting the implementation of this Fund. I am sure that it is a welcome idea because we now have some means of effecting our role of oversight which we did not have initially. I support this Motion because it is a step in the right direction.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to echo my sentiments and say that this is an idea whose time has come and congratulate all Senators who are in this Sessional Committee. We, as a Senate, believe in them and the work that they are going to do. It is about time that the Senate was also able to execute its mandate and their presence felt at the county level. We hope that this facilitation will enable us to do that. I also hope that this Committee will find it fit to review what we had agreed in this House and what we had also discussed at the Kamukunji; to review what the nominated Senators were going to get from this Fund. I hope that this Committee will look into all the issues we had raised so that we can all continue to execute our mandate as constituted in the Constitution and for our presence to also be felt in different parts of the country.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Listening to the debate that has been going on in the last few minutes, it is clear that the House has converged. Could I request that you call upon the Mover to respond?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. I call upon the Mover to reply.
Thank you Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Since this is not a County Motion, I will put the question.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I beg to move the following Motion: THAT, the Senate adopts the Report of the Standing Committee on Health on the circumstances that led to the disappearance of twin babies who were delivered at Pumwani Maternity Hospital on 6th January, 2015, laid on the Table of the Senate on Tuesday, 15th September, 2015. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on 19th February, 2015, Sen. Mugo requested a Statement in the House on the circumstances that led to the disappearance of twin babies The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Sang. Go back up to the Bar and bow. You have to learn the right procedure.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The Vice Chairperson is doing very well, but since this is an inquisitorial matter, it is not just a question of us joining in debates. We would like to hear more. She says that Dr. Ayisi confirmed to them that he was not given the results of the DNA, and it is that DNA that will determine who the parents of these babies are. Could she go further and tell us what stopped Parliament from obtaining the DNA results?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. It is assumed that you, as an active Member of this Senate, looked at the detailed report after it was tabled on the Floor of this House; it is assumed that you have read it. There was enough time given to you before the Motion was moved. Therefore, do not interfere with Sen. Kittony. Let her finish moving the Motion the way she knows. You want her to move it your way, but she is not you.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for saving me. Let him allow me to finish, then he can ask me questions.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you will have your time to contribute.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, doctors should write notes whenever they review a patient as per their training. To absolve itself from blame, the hospital should allow at least one relative of the patient to be presented during delivery or immediately after. The hospital should improve its records management from admission, birth, death or discharge. The hospital should find a better system of tagging a mother to her child. The hospital should develop a well-maintained and secured cold room for storing the dead. Still born babies should not be placed in the bed with their mothers after delivery. The issue of shortage of staff, especially nurses and doctors, should be addressed. The hospital should institute internal disciplinary measures for staff that have been found to be negligent of their duties. Medical ethics should be strictly observed in the hospital from admission of patients to discharge. The City Mortuary should streamline their record-keeping processes, in particular, the receiving of bodies. The Committee acknowledged receipt of the letter written to the Speaker from the Kenya National Union The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Who is seconding? Sen. Kittony, you have to tell us who is seconding the Motion.
Sen. (Prof.) Lesan will second the Motion.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The Mover has moved the Motion and the intention of the Senate being involved in this matter was that we wanted to get to the bottom of the fact that the parenthood of these children is in doubt. The turning point is the DNA. They have not told us what the laboratory said. They only reached---
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. The Senator has presented the report the way she knows how. It is for this House to either adopt it or refuse to adopt it. This is your third term as a legislator and you know that. You cannot fix your thinking of a medical doctor to another Senator who may have a different training. You have the opportunity to reject the Report in your contribution, if you think that way. This is the second time I am ruling you out of order on this, and I am legitimate in doing so.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first, I want to condole and sympathize with the parents of the twins that were born and lost in Pumwani Maternity Hospital. I was a Member of the Committee that investigated the report and it exposed a lot of weaknesses in terms of security in hospitals, and more particularly, in children hospitals, with a specific and particular reference to Pumwani Maternity Hospital. The loss of a newborn is a very traumatic experience, particularly to the parents. This was exemplified from the presentation of the parents that we saw. They were really traumatized and we could see from their reports and records what they have gone through. It is apparent from the investigations that we have done that the Pumwani Maternity Hospital case is not the only one that has occurred. It looks like it is the occurrence in most children’s hospitals. As we investigated this case, we found that there was a cartel or syndicate that is involved in whisking away newborns, particularly from mothers who are in distress and going through the turbulence of giving birth and not aware of their environment. It is at this time that they lose their newborns. This is perhaps what happened. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I want to start by acknowledging the distinguished, Sen. Mugo, who brought this matter to the Floor. This is a matter that has been very emotive. Parents losing children has been a regular occurrence in our big hospitals. You remember the notorious case of Mrs. Deya and the miracle babies, how she used to traffic new babies to London for sale, pretending that she was carrying miracle pregnancies for two to three months and delivering healthy babies. This could very well be a similar case where we have had cases where children born in hospitals are swooped maliciously and criminally. One can understand if there is an accidental swoop. There have been cases of criminal swooping of children between parents, couples but this Pumwani one is very bizarre. However, when the Committee says in recommendation one that only two parties had an interest in the lost twins; the hospital and the parents, that is not true. There are The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I am sure that it is contained somewhere in the report that extensive DNA was done on several people. This includes the two parents of the twins; that is, the father and the mother, and seven other dead bodies that were retrieved from the same ward at the same time. Therefore, there was extensive DNA testing that was done in these cases.
Indeed, if you listened carefully to the Mover, she mentioned about those DNA tests.
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale said it was not done. If it was done, then the distinguished Senator, they did not bring out that point very strongly because that is where the cracks lies. We have recommendations of a criminal inquiry, we would been happy to find out from the Report whether this criminal inquiry had been done and what were the conclusions. If a criminal inquiry is carried out and there is somebody culpable, whether it is a doctor in Pumwani or anybody else, action should have been taken. The trafficking of children is a very complicated international syndicate. It runs from doctors, nurses and hospital managers. It is a very complicated criminal web where a hospital is given an order by somebody sitting in Los Angeles or London, that they want a child male or female of this type from this kind of parent. The doctors start watching the woman gestation with that criminal intent, then at the end, when children disappear like this, they start faking deaths and faking disappearances and you end up with cases such as this. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, good as it is, the Report does not bring the saga of the twins to a conclusion we can live with. At the end of the day, Jacinta and her family have not been told whether the dead twins were her children or not. She does not believe they were. The State has not conducted an inquiry into the disappearance and, or possible death. Nobody knows whether the newborns died and no one can confirm that the twins died. I am sure the distinguished Sen. (Prof.) Lesan agrees with me that some children died because there were some bodies but there is no conclusive evidence that they were Jacinta’s. In a hospital with a turnover of many births and with cases where young irresponsible expectant mothers deliver and disappear, sometimes children die and are The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I support this Report and I thank Sen. Mugo who requested this important Statement. Before going to the details of my comments, from what we see on the recommendations, it is not in depth enough on what was to be done on this issue. There are good observations and recommendations put forth by the Committee out of their visit to Pumwani Maternity Hospital and listening to various officers at the hospital. However, some of these recommendations are well The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, from the outset, I support this Motion. It is a sad moment because if Jacinta and Dedan, especially the sister of Dedan, did not have access to social media, the whole incident would not have come out. The way the report has been handled – in terms of how the information has been given – it is in such a way that when you look at the documentation, there seems to be a very well planned or orchestrated motive by the health officers who gave this report in terms of explaining what happened. I am looking at the report by the Medical Superintendent, Dr. Akumba. The mother insisted that the babies were the right ones, but the father said that they were not. When Sen. Kittony moved this Motion, she talked about three very key issues that are very critical in hospitals; the internal reporting, the systems of handover and how it should be done, the filing system and how that should be followed through. That seems to be the basis of the problem. I concur with Sen. Lesuuda that the work of this Committee should not stop at this. In fact, the Committee needs to even extend and look at other cases that have come up and see how solutions were found for those specific cases. First, such cases have become rampant. Secondly, Jacinta was a victim. She became a victim in the first instance since she did not do an ultrasound. Therefore, she did not know whether the babies were dead or alive. Therefore, she was very easy to convince. What percentage of women can access the ultrasound and go for prenatal care, so that by the time they get their babies they know what is happening? It is really sad because there are two twins growing up somewhere, completely detached from their families. The belief is that the twins are alive somewhere else and not where they are meant to be.
The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
It is big money!
Sen. Wetangula says it is big money. I hope they rot using that money. I hope they are not even able to use it successfully. It is just the whole story. I sympathise with this Committee. Sen. Kittony, it must have been a lot of hard work for this Committee because the contradictions are just enormous. I think I like the way you have put your Committee observations reflecting the level of confusion that was there. There is need to move forward so that they can move on with what they need to do. The parents agreed with the hospital to dispose their babies and yet they had said that the babies were not theirs. So, how did they agree? When finally the DNA was done, the father agreed that those were the babies but the mother disagreed. Finally, the Report is not even clear. Was the DNA finally done? What was the result of that DNA? It is because in one of the paragraphs, I read that the DNA was finally done but then the spurious bit is that a DNA is being done on probably the wrong victims –if we may call them that. You are doing a DNA on the wrong bodies. So, obviously you will not find concurrence between those bodies and those specific parents because the foul play has already been done. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I think the base recommendation is that the hospital should institute internal disciplinary measures for staff that have been found to be negligent. It should not be the general warnings that we hear every day because nobody responds to them. It would be good for somebody who is culpable for this situation to be answerable for this specific case. I think it would be foolhardy for such a case to reach the height of the Senate and then end up wishy-washy; neither here nor there. We should not end this case. If we have to spend more time, we need to get that time, get into the details of this case and find the culprits. This is because if it comes to the Senate and we are wishy- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this Motion. On the onset, I thank the Chairperson and the Members of the Committee because I have witnessed how many hours and how hard they really worked to put together this report. It was a very difficult assignment as there were even contradictions between the mortuary and hospital staff. It was not easy. I congratulate the Committee. I also thank the Committee for putting so many hours into this in trying to answer the difficult questions. As it is now and as has been said, the babies have not been found yet. Somebody somewhere has to find these children so that we can put a stop to this. I think that is what the Committee has tried to recommend. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I note that on bullet 14, the Kenya National Union of Nurses (KNUN) were asking what my interest is in this issue, purporting that I had a hidden agenda. I would like to indicate from the very start that I did not even know these parents. I have never met them and I do not know the family. I saw the story in the DailyNation and it was a very sad one. The parents were asking who could help them with DNA. They knew those were not their babies but they could not afford to pay for DNA. The parents are quite poor. The father is jobless. I do not like to use the word poor but they are jobless and did not have any income whatsoever. I got their number from the
newspaper reporter who had reported on the case. That is how I got to call them and offered to pay for the DNA. It is the same way that I have in the past paid for medical cases even when I was in the Ministry of Health. I cared. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to add that part of our job as legislators and Senators is representation, legislation and oversight. This is part of representation. So, I was just doing my work. Luckily, when I called the Director of Medical Services, he said that they would do the DNA free of charge. They said it is part of their social responsibility. In fact, it is the PrincipalSecretary (PS), the lady, who confirmed that even in the press. I also thank the Ministry for taking that interest. The other question from the KNUN is where I got the results. They were also given to the County Medical Officer. I thank him because he was very cooperative and, in fact, called me to ask me to send the parents to his office, which is what we did. His The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Before I give Sen. Muthama an opportunity, who is Temporary three?
Okay, you will get an opportunity later. So, it is the Whips from both sides. Proceed, Sen. Muthama.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with a lot of pain, I rise to contribute to this Motion. Sen. Mugo narrated very clearly what necessitated her to seek this Statement. This matter affects Kenyans. I congratulate you, Sen. Mugo, for being concerned about a poor Kenyan who had no capacity even to come and approach you. This is a poor mother who was pregnant, had labour pains and went to the best maternity hospital in this country expecting to give birth to her twins, bring them up to add to the population of this country and to bring up Kenyans who might have changed the lives of many people. I do not know whether I will abstain, reject or support this Motion. I do not know what position I will take at the end of my contribution. The reason is that what Sen. Mugo sought was not about the bodies of the twins, but about the disappearance of new born twins. There is nowhere that she has quoted through her request for that Statement that there is a possibility that the twins died. It is the disappearance of two children. It pains me when Ms. Jacinta says to Sen. Mugo, “I gave birth to live children and I heard them cry and that was the end.” She could not breast feed her children. She was left with the pain of giving birth and the pain of losing her children. When I look at the forward of the Report, on page three, the second paragraph from the bottom, it says:- “The Committee recognises the complexities of this subject. We acknowledge the need for a long term approach in ensuring that this situation does not occur again.” Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is a life of a human being, whether they were two hours or 30 minutes old when they disappeared. That life before the eyes of the creator is the same as the life of Sen. Muthama, Sen. (Prof.) Leshan, Sen. Lesuuda and everybody here. But a tedious investigation by this Committee was done. What we are not seeing here – and what would have been the highlight of this Report – is that children were born, they died or disappeared. It is between disappearing of the children being alive and a box being taken to City Mortuary wrapped and the situation remains there. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we are turning out to be a society that will need Jesus Christ to come and close Kenya once and for all as he did at Noah’s time and bring a new generation that will do things in a different way. We are stealing land. We started by stealing money and we found it was not enough. We went to land and we found it was The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. My friend Sen. Muthama has made a very serious allegation about the presence of a University for stealing in this country. This is very serious and it affects the reputation of all Kenyans, Senators included. I think this is a point that we must deny or otherwise ask the Senator to clarify or give evidence to the fact that there exists such a school in this country. Otherwise, we should all start to deny that because our reputations are at stake. Thank you.
I think more importantly Sen. Muthama, is whether the President of Zimbabwe said it or it is part of those parody The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will try to be careful but the truth of the matter is that the allegations were made against Kenyans and that is how we were quoted. I can go further and say that even when the Pope was here, he told us that we take care of corruption and protect it like sugar.
Sen. Muthama, I want to dispose of the most straightforward issue; whether the President of Zimbabwe said what you said or whether there was evidence to that effect. If there is none, you can withdraw that statement. You do not need to apologize because the President of Zimbabwe is not here. You can always withdraw but now proceed with the Pope’s version.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Three weeks ago, it was on BBC, The Mail, The New YorkTimes and in the South African media. This is what Mugabe said:- “The people of Zimbabwe, be careful of the people of Kenya. When you go to Kenya, everybody in Kenya is a thief. They steal everything, they will infect you with bad manners and I think their universities offer a course called Bachelor of stealing.” Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am surprised you missed it. My friends from Zimbabwe confirmed that he said it.
I saw it but from a parody account.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I would want Sen. Muthama to substantiate the allegation that there is a university in Kenya. Whereas I am the Chairman of the Senate Standing Committee on Education in Kenya, I would like to be appraised of this university and its location so that I can put it in the record because I do not have that one in my list of universities. I think that is too bad.
Hold on Sen. Muthama. I think so that we proceed – I know you are going to respond – of course you know newspapers are not referred to in this House, and the Speaker sitting here has also had an occasion to witness in the social media those kind of things, but further interrogation has shown that it is parody accounts, whether for Donald Trump or for the President of Zimbabwe, there has never been clear allegations that it was a true excerpt for creation in the social media. You must be careful about the Standing Orders and substantiation of issues. If you have no evidence which can be substantiated, you withdraw but you can substitute with the Pope because he was here.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, what I said was in the media. It was on Cable News Network (CNN), British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) and in the newspapers. It is not a joke. I am not saying that Kenyans steal or have a school which offers degrees in stealing. It was said and even when the Pope was in the country---
We need to close that issue. Sen. (Prof.) Lesan!
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have no doubt that the President of Zimbabwe said that kind of thing. But we are best placed to know whether or The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, more often, we have been told that we should not depend on hearsay, reports from newspapers, Twitter or text messages. What kind of ruling will you give against my friend Sen. Muthama, because he is going against a ruling that was done some time back? He is getting us further---
That is okay, Sen. Karaba. I have heard you.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it will be out of order for the Senate to discuss about universities and tell our young people that we have a university for thieves. It would be good if the Senator of Machakos withdrew those remarks, because the young students will wonder whether Senators are serious about their education. Let us not take that route.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we need clarity. What is written in the newspapers is a reality of what is happening. Sen. Muthama said that “the newspapers have said.” Whether or not it will be verified is totally a different process. As a society, we can have that discourse. There is a lot that is happening and people are questioning. Some people are questioning the way certificates are attained. Some of them are fake and have been attained from other institutions. These are the realities. We have been in academia and we have dealt with this. We need to deal with it stringently to ensure that we come back to the glory that Kenya had in terms of qualifications.
What is your point of order?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the point of order is that, he is reporting what the media has said. He has not said that there is such a university. Therefore, he can not substantiate by having to name it.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, is it in order for all of us collectively to try to truncate debate and free speech by disallowing examples? What Sen. Muthama said was not that there is any university in this country that offers thievery as a course. He simply cited somebody who said this and said that he hopes our country will not go in that direction. Surely, that cannot be offensive to anybody. When we are debating, we should be allowed to think as freely as Romans and as figuratively as we can, so that we enrich debate.
Sen. Muthama, the ruling of the Chair on this is that if you have said that the reports attributed to this and that, I think to that extent, it is alleged by those people that there is that university that does that. That is acceptable to that extent.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, let me use the words “it was alleged.” However, corruption in this country is coming to this level. The President has confessed that corruption in this country is beyond repair and he needs Kenyans to assist him. We should not just criticize the action of stealing children and not shout about losing Kshs200 million. If those children had a chance to grow up in this country, maybe they The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
You have one minute to conclude.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as I said from the beginning, I do not know whether I will support, reject or abstain from voting on this Report. I hope that those who will be given this Report to implement will give us a true report at the end of the day. Those who are involved should not only be jailed but hanged.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first, I thank Sen. Mugo and the Committee. I pray to God that Ms Jacinta Wanjiku will move on from this tragedy. This is not the first time we are losing children. We need to pray to God that after serving Kenyans for many years, we will hand over to a generation that will change this country. It is unfortunate that leaders who have been in institutions of power are the same ones who are lamenting. What will happen to the young ones who have come in and need encouragement to move this country forward? It is important for the institution of the Senate to understand that we want to see a new breath and that is why we have a new dispensation of the Constitution. From the Report, there is a family that is crying somewhere. Likewise, a few days ago a patient was killed at the Kenya National Hospital (KNH). There are many questions that arise. It was a general ward and he was not the only patient. This is the same as when Ms Jacinta woke up and was told that she had a stillbirth, and that the babies were dead. She was taken through a painful process as a mother, of doing a DNA test and later being told that the babies are not hers. What is happening? What are the challenges? What do we feel as human beings when we do some of these things? Pumwani Maternity Hospital was one of the best hospitals in Kenya. Many people in this country were born in this hospital. It was among the best in East Africa in terms of midwifery. When you look at recommendations of the Committee, you wonder what is happening with our doctors. Doctors have left everything to be done by students. Corruption in this country has many faces. Doctors in many of our health facilities are taking advantage of students. They report in the morning and go to their private clinics. We have seen this happening in all our hospitals. The doctors will just walk around and sign everything that has been done by those young students. At the end of the day, the student will be blamed because he or she has no choice. However, we should not be blaming students, but the doctors. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we need to monitor our institutions. It is a pity that when these issues are raised by the media, we start the blame game. We need to monitor and see to it that our institutions are working in order to deliver services to our people. Once something has been messed up, no amount of investigation will remedy the situation. It is no wonder that doctors and nurses who were involved in the disappearance of these twins are still on duty. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for this opportunity. I also take this early opportunity to thank Sen. Mugo for having brought this matter to the Senate. I also appreciate the extensive work that has been done by the Committee. I join those who spoke before me to say that as Senate, we need to shorten the duration upon which we process such types of complaints or statements. This Statement was sought sometime in January and we are finally concluding the report in December. We need to improve our systems to ensure that we are more efficient in terms of coming up with such types of reports. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
What is it, Sen. Mugo?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is the Senator in order to keep on saying that this Report only states, “investigate” while the reason for this Report is so that we can also enrich it because there is still room for amendment to propose what would make it more forceful? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on that account, I stand guided. However, I believe that we have gotten to the limits of our capacity. This Senate is incapable of a criminal investigation. Therefore, that recommendation is reasonable to that extent but my concern is; how swiftly we will act on it? This is because there are limits to the capacity of this Senate. It has many limits. Most of the time, we make recommendations to other agencies to carry out investigations. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, nonetheless, I thank my senior, the one and only
in the House at this point in time, Sen. Kittony, who with her team have come up with this Report which, as much as we are outraged, gives us a basis for debate because it becomes a valid document for public discourse. I thank them and as I said, as we go on as a country, we must become more and more audacious. I saw Sen. (Dr.) Zani acknowledging the fact that we need to start using public facilities for us to start giving our time and effort to these public utilities. Otherwise we will never deal with this situation but nonetheless, thanks for this expose and Sen. Mugo for bringing it. I believe that something will happen and some action will be taken and somebody will start to have faith in us as their representatives. With those remarks, I beg to support.
I call upon the Mover to reply.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I take this opportunity to thank all the Senators for their contributions. I read the mood of the House that this is, indeed, a touchy issue and needs our contribution. There is no other place to put things right other than this Senate. This Report has room for improvement. We have heard all what you have said and the Committee acknowledges it with a lot of humility. This Committee did a lot of work. The report that we got was rather chilling and traumatizing. Indeed, we were privileged that we had a team of doctors in the Committee. We were able to get some gist of what we were looking for. I also want to say that we even went as far as seeing those dead bodies in the mortuary although we were not supposed to do so, but we had to do it.
Order, Sen. Kittony! It is now time for interruption of our business, but if you assure the Chair that you would conclude in five minutes we will give you the five minutes. If not, we can postpone until tomorrow.
I will, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. As I was saying, the work of the Committee was traumatizing and chilling and we even went to the mortuary and saw dead bodies. That was not our work, but we had to. We have strongly recommended that the Criminal Investigation Department (CID) do their work because none of us has expertise in this. If this Report is handed over to the right department, the truth of this matter will come out. In the Committee, we have a number of doctors who are in the House. We did not have Members with expertise in criminal activities. We have recommended this Report be forwarded to the CID and with all the support we have noted here, this report may help Kenyans who may be victims of such circumstances. There is no other place to do things right other that this august House. Finally, I want to thank all the Senators who have contributed to this Motion. I beg to Move. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
First, before I put the Question, this is not a matter concerning counties, therefore, we will vote in the usual manner. ( Question put and agreed to)