Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Tuesday, 8th March, 2016:- Annual Report of the National Police Commission, 2014-2015
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Tuesday, 8th March, 2016:- Annual Report of the Communications Authority of Kenya 2014-2015.
Hon. Members, before we embark on the Order Statements, I have a Message from the National Assembly. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Hon. Senators, I wish to report to the Senate that on 3rd March, 2016 and pursuant to Standing Order No.40(3) and (4), I received the following Message from the Speaker of the National Assembly regarding the rejection, by the Assembly, of some of the Senate amendments to the Climate Change Bill (National Assembly Bill No.1 of 2014). I quote:- “Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.41 and 142 of the National Assembly Standing Orders, I hereby convey the following Message from the National Assembly:- THAT, by way of a resolution passed on Tuesday, 1st March, 2016, the National Assembly concurred with the Senate’s amendments to the Climate Change Bill (National Assembly Bill No.1 of 2014), save for amendments to Clauses 7(2)(g), 7(4) and 32, which were disagreed to. NOW THEREFORE, in accordance with the provisions of Article 112 of the Constitution and Standing Order No.149 of the National Assembly Standing Orders, I hereby convey the said decision of the National Assembly to the Senate and seek the appointment of Senators to the Mediation Committee to consider the said Bill in accordance with Article 113 of the Constitution.” Hon. Senators, Article 112(b) of the Constitution provides that:- “If one House passes an Ordinary Bill concerning counties and the second House passes the Bill in an amended form, it shall be referred back to the originating House for reconsideration.” Further, Article 112(2)(b) of the Constitution provides that:- “If after the originating House has reconsidered a Bill referred back to it under clause (1)(b), that House rejects the Bill as amended, the Bill shall be referred to a Mediation Committee under Article 113.” Hon. Senators, in the circumstances, I concur with the Speaker of the National Assembly to form a Mediation Committee in accordance with Articles 112(2)(b) and 113 of the Constitution. In this regard, hon. Senators, I have received communication from the National Assembly that the Speaker of the National Assembly has appointed the following Members to represent the Assembly in the Mediation Committee that will attempt to develop a version of the Bill that both Houses will pass:- (1) The Hon. Amina Abdalla, MP (2) The Hon. (Dr.) Wilbur Ottichilo, MP (3) The Hon. Chachu Ganya, MP (4) The Hon. Kathuri Murungi, MP; and, (5) The Hon. Opiyo Wandayi, MP In this regard, hon. Senators, I also hereby appoint the following Senators to represent the Senate in the Mediation Committee:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I thank you for that communication. However, I would like to bring to your attention that if there is a Public Relations Office (PRO) in the Senate, it should address this matter. The Governors of Vihiga and Kakamega counties on several occasions, including last Saturday, continued misinforming residents of their counties and Kenyans in general, that this Senate has no role whatsoever in this very exercise that you have just read out in your communication. I do not understand why the PRO of the Senate is quiet on such serious allegations by the governors who are best known for running away from accountability.
Now that you have brought it to our attention we will definitely assure that our media relations office will look into all those reports and do the needful. What is it, Sen. Wetangula?
Mr. Speaker Sir, in so doing, there must be, probably, a communication even from your office. I saw reports from these governors stating that enemies of devolution in the country are Senators. A statement made casually like that should not go unchallenged. This is not a matter for Senators to defend themselves. You are the head of this institution. When such spurious and malicious outbursts come out, it is desirable that your office takes it up in a most befitting manner to defend the institution. Definitely, everything we do here cannot be described as enmity to devolution. If anything, we are the first and last line of defence of devolution in this country.
Sen. Wetangula, those are good suggestions. However, I am afraid that there are ways in which your Speaker responds. I cannot be responding to things stated in some other fora. It must be brought to my attention by a Senator and I will give the appropriate response.
You also know, of course, that is not the format in which you expect me to respond. You are just doing your usual riding on, on a statement by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. I expect governors to be the last people not to know the role of the Senate. Let us leave it there for now. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join you in thanking my neighbours for choosing to come for benchmarking here. They work in the County Assembly of Turkana County. That county requires serious oversight just like any other county in Kenya. The staff who work there are supposed to work closely with Members of the County Assembly and guide them where they can. As they work as a team, just like we do with our clerks and officers here, we should see a better county in the near future.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to join you in welcoming the distinguished delegation from Turkana County. It is a county that has the distinction of providing the first Speaker to the second Senate of the country. More importantly, I laud devolution. Without devolution, nobody ever imagined that you could invite a delegation from a far-flung region like Turkana to visit Parliament and sit with us. Even more proud, the party I lead is the dominant party in Turkana. I am very happy to welcome the visitors. I welcome them to learn as much as they can. They are the second highest recipient of devolved funds among the 47 counties. They should learn how to put that money into good use to change the lives of people of an area that has been neglected for the last 50 years of our Independence.
Next Order. Who is ready to prosecute his statement? KILLINGS IN KITUI COUNTY
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have a Statement on the Killings in Kitui County.
You need to mention which item on the order paper.
Mr. Speaker Sir, it is listed as Statement (e) on the Order Paper. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Is it the one regarding the security situation in Kitui–Tana River border?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I must admit that this statement is overdue. It was raised in the last session. However, most of the answers that were coming were not satisfactory. I hope and pray that this one will meet the desire of my colleague and brother Sen. Musila who has been very patient. It reads as follows:- On 23rd February, 2016, Sen. Musila requested for a statement regarding killings that occurred in Kitui County on various dates in 2015. He sought to be informed on the progress that had been made in the prosecution of the alleged perpetrators of the killing of 15 people who were arrested on 17th July 2015. Also he sought to know whether the Government is considering training and arming home guards to secure the volatile Kitui-Tana River border as done in other areas. I wish to state as follows: The prosecution and conviction of the various cases is on case to case basis. However, instituting and undertaking criminal proceedings against any person before any court, except the court martial, is the mandate of the Office of the Director of Public Prosecution, which is an independent constitutional office under Article 157 of the Constitution, (2010). Conviction is the mandate of the Judiciary. The perpetrators of the killings in Kitui County in 2015 were arrested on diverse dates, not on 17th July 2015. The incidents which led to the killings were reported as follows:- On 14th May, 2015, Paul Sammy, aged 23, a motorcycle rider was hired by two unknown people to take them from Tulima to Bangale in Tana River County. The rider was later found dead in Tulima area. His motorcycle was registration number, KMDJ 380D, of SKYGO make and blue in colour. It was valued at Kshs80,000. It was stolen though recovered later. One suspect, Bashir Abdi, was arrested and charged with murder and robbery Vide Court File No.188/2015. Five witnesses have so far testified while seven more are waiting to testify. On 27th May, 2015 at about 8.00 a.m. at Kalambani sub-location in Mutha location, Mutomo Sub-county, the body of Maluki Kilungya, aged 55, was found in his cattle shed. Two suspects, Woli Abdulahi Bare alias Wili and Mohammed Mahamud Farah, have since been arrested and charged with murder vide criminal case---
What is it, Sen. Musila?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would be the last person to interrupt my brother, friend and former and present colleague on this matter. However, what the chairperson is reading has already been explained in the past. My question was progress on prosecutions. This repetition of what happened that day has already been done. I just want him to be specific on the progress of the prosecutions which he announced that time, that people had been arrested and were being prosecuted.
Quite in order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Chairman, he is even making your burden lighter. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. In the initial statement that I made, I clearly sated about the progress of prosecution. Here, the Cabinet Secretary says that these people have been arrested. He has given their case file numbers. The matter is still pending in court. However as to when the prosecution will end, that depends on both the Director of Public Prosecution as well as the courts which are handling the case. I do not remember whether the other question which he required some information on, was answered. It was about national police reservists. I mentioned something about that in the previous statement. I do not know whether he was satisfied or not. Well, I will proceed. The establishment of the security officers does not provide for recruitment of home guards. However, if the Hon. Senator meant National Police Reservists, their recruitment and administration of the maximum member is vested on the National Police Service by Section 122 of the National Police Service Act, 2011. The reservists are recruited on need basis owing to various factors such as increased incidents related to banditry and cattle rustling which may vary from one county to another. That is the end of the statement. However, I am not satisfied, particularly when they say that it depends on various factors when 15 people were killed. The Cabinet Secretary has also mentioned that cattle are being stolen. If the Hon. Member is not satisfied, I will further pursue this matter.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I know that the Chairman of my Committee is very serious and honest. Very few stand here to own up that they are not satisfied with the answer they have been given. Mr. Speaker, Sir, through you, as the Chair, I request you to urge the Chairman of my Committee, that matters of prosecution under the Constitution have absolutely nothing to do with the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and Coordination of National Government. There is an independent office that takes direction from nobody. It is called the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP). The only credible information about the status of prosecution; where it started, where it is and where it is likely to go can only come from the DPP. Therefore, I encourage the Chairman to seek further information about these prosecutions from the Office of the DPP rather than the office of the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and Coordination of National Government.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank the Chairman for making many attempts to get us satisfactory answers on this. You may recall that these killings happened early last year and we are still asking about them. Lastly, you indicated that the Cabinet Secretary should come here; respond to this and other serious issues related to security where hon. Senators had expressed concerns. We came here and waited with the Chairman until 1.00 p.m. The Cabinet Secretary did not show up. I doubt whether the Cabinet Secretary has ever communicated to you and apologised. Hon. Senators waited for that long and he never came. While taking note of what the Senator for Bungoma has said, the police arrested these people at the border after the mass killings. Therefore, it is the police who should know what they did with the culprits after arresting them. Fifteen people from my county The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree with the last statement by Sen. Musila. There is need to summon the Cabinet Secretary either to appear before the whole House or my Committee. If he appears before my Committee, I will invite Sen. Musila. Regarding Sen. Wetangula’s question on the DPP; we cannot have our cake and eat it. It is an independent office. If we call him, he will take cover under that independence. Not only that, I have handled a case which was being investigated by the Criminal Investigations Department (CID). They found that there was no case. The same file was forwarded to the DPP. I visited that office twice and up to now the complainant has not been set free. So, we have that problem. No Chairperson can do anything about it.
You will act on the basis of the Cabinet Secretary appearing before your Committee. You can invite the Member. Who is ready with another statement? Let us take the requests. Proceed, Sen. Khaniri. REGISTRATION OF PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.45(2)(b) to seek a statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare regarding registration of persons with disabilities. In the Statement, the Chairperson should explain:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Where is the Chairperson of the Committee, Vice Chairperson, Member of the Committee, Senate Majority Leader, Deputy Majority Leader or the Senate Minority Leader?
Order, Sen. Khaniri! You cannot be happy with one side and not your side. You may recall that, last week there was the issue of the Members of the Rules and Business Committee (RBC). Proceed, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo. I also saw you making some claim.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, you removed the claim that assigned myself last week. On behalf of the Senate Majority Leader, I request for two weeks to ensure that the statement is given.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Just to set the record straight; is it not my expectation that in the absence of all the people you have listed, then you would fall back to any Chairperson of a Committee, who would then pass that information to a fellow Chairperson, in the same manner as in old system where a Minister would then pass over the information to another Minister? The issue of bringing in a Member of the Rules and Business Committee (RBC) needs to be made clear.
You have a point. I would have easily asked you to practice what you have just preached, but unfortunately, you cannot. Sen. Haji, were you listening to Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I must be honest; I was not listening to him. I was looking for another statement from my documents.
Sen. Karaba, since you were listening can you give an undertaking?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale may have a point from what he has said, but had already made a communication and Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo has already given an undertaking to bring the statement in two weeks. Therefore, the matter is spent and what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has suggested can only be in the future. Otherwise, it would be a waste of time to have asked Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo to say what he said. The HANSARD shows that the statement will be given in two weeks’ time.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I sought the statement that was to be given by Sen. Madzayo and want to seek your intervention.
He is deliberately misleading the House! The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I may be misleading the House, but not deliberately. On the Order Paper, Sen. Madzayo was to issue a statement on the cash transfers. I am sorry if we are not there yet.
Order, Senators! Although the matter was spent, I want to remind the Deputy Speaker that, that was actually challenged by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and I allowed it. It made a lot of sense since Chairpersons are also Members of the Liaison Committee; they can communicate at that level. It was not wrong to assign that duty to Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, first, as a senior ranking Member in the membership of RBC. But, also, even an ordinary Member of that particular Committee would still have conveyed the message. The issue is relaying the message, but it is better when a Chairperson does it to another Chairperson. Obviously, all the other Chairpersons were not following the proceedings of the House. They were concentrating on their own statements. Let us have the statement in two weeks’ time. What is it, Sen. Okong’o? THE DOPING MENACE IN KENYA
Mr. Speaker, Sir, slightly over a month ago, I sought a statement on the doping menace. Last week, the statement was ready and available. I request that either the Chairperson or Vice Chairperson gives that statement because it is a matter of national importance. I am talking about Statement “b.”
Hon. Senator, the statement before yours went to the same Committee and you saw the wild goose chase. I do not think we can help you now.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the statement I sought places the country on the brink of huge consequences. However, considering the situation in the House, I request that it be slotted tomorrow, so that we can deal with it.
That is better. I was not disputing the importance of the statement. I think we all agree that it is extremely important to our nation. This statement will be put on the Order Paper tomorrow. I direct Sen. Haji to deliver the Chairperson or the Vice Chairperson. Sen. Wetangula has also agreed to support the Chairman of the Committee of National Security and Foreign Relations.
Sen. Sijeny. STATUS OF THE KENOL-MAKUTANO-MARUA ROAD
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to issue the following statement: On Wednesday 17th February, 2016, Sen. Daniel Karaba requested for a statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Roads and Transport on the Kenol- Makutano-Marua and Nakuru-Eldoret-Malaba roads as follows:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am satisfied by the answer that has been given by the Chairperson of the Committee on Roads and Transport. I am happy that Kenol- Makutano-Marua Road has been specified because earlier, it was Kenol-Makutano Road. However, the Chairperson mentioned ADB having interest in this road and yet it has been there for a long time. If the money is availed now, when exactly is the government commencing works?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I request for more time to find out how far the negotiations have reached and when the monies can be availed. In any event, we have issued summons against the Cabinet Secretary to appear before the Committee on 15th March, 2016. This is because he has occasionally failed to honour the invitations many times. If possible, with the indulgence of the Chair, we can have a House Committee so that he responds to all these questions. However, in a week’s time, I will answer Sen. Karaba on the exact time the funding will commence.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I appreciate Sen. Karaba for expanding his request to cover the all important A104 road from Namanga-Nairobi-Nakuru-Eldoret-Malaba. When we were contesting for leadership, the Jubilee manifesto indicated that they were going to tarmac 10,000 kilometres of road in five years. They campaigned on that platform and assured Kenyans that it was not a mirage, but a reality. Can the Vice Chairperson inform the House - since the March 2013 elections to date - how many kilometres of road have been tarmacked because we have 17 months to go? If they were to give us 10,000 kilometres, one would expect that by now, they must have done at least 8,000 kilometres of road. I do not understand why our colleagues from central Kenya wish to have another road through Makutano yet we are talking of a road to connect Kenya to markets in Ethiopia. The road is from Thika-Makutano-Nyeri-Isiolo-Merile-Marsabit to Moyale. When is the Government putting a dual carriageway on the A104 to Malaba which carries 60 per cent of our external trade? The other road is the one linking us to Ethiopia. With a population of 95 million people, the connection can change the fortunes of our economy. The road from Isebania-Kakamega-Kitale-Lodwar-Nadapal to Juba is another emerging market since South Sudan has joined the East Africa Community.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the executive is doing this aware of the expectation of the voters and that the President was elected to deliver goodies to his county and the region in general. However, at best, this is nothing but a grandiose intention by the Jubilee Government. They dare say that they are looking for a financier of a non-priority project. If they want to prioritise volume of traffic and impact on the economy, they would have started with the Mombasa-Nairobi and Nairobi-Malaba Road before going to the road in question. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! Does Nairobi-Malaba Highway include the great County of Kakamega?
Not at all.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for reminding me because my colleagues misunderstand me. During our presidency, we will not care which region or ethnic community is in which place. We will simply follow plans and priority. The Trans-African Highways will open the economy of this country, but as far as the Jubilee Government is concerned, economy will be opened if two communities are empowered. That is---
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! It is Statement Time.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I conclude by thanking you very much for provoking me because we are crying in Kakamega. Our Trans-African Highway from Isbania-Migori-Kisumu-Kakamega-Kitale-Lodwar and eventually to Juba will never be prioritised by the Jubilee Government.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thought you will congratulate me for mentioning Lodwar!
How does the Chair congratulate you for crying?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, being aware that one of the major infrastructure projects in this country is the Lamu Port South Sudan-Ethiopia Transport (LAPSSET) Corridor and having the knowledge of its masterplan, could the Vice Chairperson tell us whether the Government plans to implement the LAPSSET project between Nairobi and Isiolo? If so, what are the plans?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I laud the fact that the Chairman wants the Cabinet Secretary (CS) to appear before us. Since the CS will come and respond to a number of issues, I would like to know about the road because it seems to have been designed quite a lot time ago. A lot of circumstances have changed since then. In fact, if you travel to Isiolo or any of those places, you will realise that the stretch after the dual carriageway is impassable, especially over the weekends. Is the design the same as it was done 15 years ago or will it be redesigned? Secondly, could the Vice Chairperson indicate to us, during the open forum with the CS, what the Government intends to do in terms of policy in using private sector capital to build our roads? Day in, day out, we hear the Government talk of looking for money from this or that source. The one source that has got infinite quantities of money that we never seem to approach is the private sector. If you travel to Thailand, you know very well that you will use a private road from the main city to the airport. Therefore, you avoid the traffic jam. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am one of the persons that requested an expansion on the statement that has been sought by Sen. Karaba to include the very important road which Sen. Wetangula talked about. This is the road from Nairobi-Nakuru-Eldoret to Uganda and South Sudan. Mr. Speaker, Sir, it defeats logic - I hope the Vice Chairperson is listening - that we can waste billions – sometimes the figure goes to trillions – to entertain a standard gauge railway that will ensure goods manufactured in other nations move very fast through the Indian Ocean to the hinterland of Kenya. That is ironical because we are supposed to transport goods that have been manufactured in Thika – because we have many industries there – and Nairobi Industrial Area where our own Kenyan main products are made. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to know whether the medium-term plan of Vision 2030 which is 2012 to 2017 is still alive or dead because the road we are talking about falls under that. Currently, we have over two million transit vehicles in Kenya. Therefore, we should go slowly on the issue of the railway. The railway should end in Nairobi as we concentrate on the open market of South Sudan which will open the north rift; West Pokot and Turkana counties and so on where there is a huge potential for market. You can sell a bag of maize for over Kshs7,000.
Order, Senator! It is statements time.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, when I was a Permanent Secretary (PS), they were already talking about designs which had been done. Are they being repeated or somebody is playing with us?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank the Vice Chairperson of the Committee for the elaborate and clear answer. I am grateful that in that answer, it has become clear that the proposed road from Kenol through Murang’a Town will end up in Sagana just like the other one was to end up in Sagana. The danger of playing politics over such a serious issue is that it also misleads people. The leadership of Kirinyaga County had made it appear like Murang’a County was taking a road from them which will then start in Murang’a Town and go all the way to Marua. It is now clear that, that road is designed to go through Murang’a Town because it is the capital of Murang’a County. We have a university there, a Level 5 Hospital and it is the headquarters of the County Commissioner and County Government. Therefore, it was important that the road goes through Murang’a Town. It is now clear that the road will end up at Sagana which is in Kirinyaga County and serves Nyeri, Kirinyaga, Embu and Meru counties. Therefore, this answer is important because it reduces tensions where some leaders would like to make it appear as if a road is being taken away from them to disadvantage them when, indeed, it goes through their county.
Order, Senator! The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Speaker, Sir, just allow me one second to say that from Sagana to Karatina---
I will allow you to interrogate the statement, but not to make your own statement.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you for that. The point I was trying to make is that everybody knows about that. Almost the whole of the road from Sagana to Karatina is within Kirinyaga County because the boundary is just before Karatina. The road, as designed to pass through Murang’a Town, will open up the counties which is the intention and the main purpose of devolution. A development in one county should not be made to appear to be loss of development in another county. That is why the road to Malaba is so important because it is clearly stated here. It will be a Public-Private Partnership (PPP). Funds are being sourced; the road will be made. The fact that the road will go to Malaba does not mean that other places would not be developed simultaneously, so that we develop the whole county. That is the whole purpose of devolution. We should not mislead the people we represent as Senators. I thank you.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to a cue from what Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo said about the Eldoret-Kitale-Lodwar Road; we need an official response on when it will commence. There is talk of renovation of that road which is very important. Again, the Senator for Kakamega talked of priorities in this country. The road takes us all the way to Sudan. It is 500 kilometres less to travel through one border post in Lokichoggio than going through Malaba and Gulu which will take you to South Sudan. So, the priority is wrong. We are taking transporters and other people travelling in vehicles to those areas for 500 more kilometres. Again, this road is important because of security. I am happy to announce that Turkana and West Pokot counties enjoy peace as the result of intervention and the peace caravan.
A better tarmac road through those two counties will improve security. However, 500 kilometres less and one border post should be a priority of this country, instead of taking people through Malaba or Busia or Kampala and Gulu where you are taxed before you cross into South Sudan. I think priority should be looked at when the Chairman responds.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there were times when animals used to speak. The hyena saw a monkey with a red ass. The hyena said: “We cannot sleep day and night because we are looking for meat and others are so satisfied that they put it on their arse.” I am saying this because where I come from, in 2007, President Kibaki promised a road called Wema-Masalani, the Headquarters of Ijara. I followed up on the matter and the Head of Civil Service then, Amb. Muthaura, who wrote to the Ministry to tell them that that was the promise made by the President and that the road should be made. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Sen. Haji, I appreciate your longevity, but I am not sure you lived in the age in which animals talked.
Vice Chairperson, you can respond. You can see the interest of the House is really enormous.What Sen. Munyes did not tell you is that already there is a road from Ethiopia to Todonyang when our side is not responding appropriately. These are all connecting various regions in the continent.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My narration of this is just like the animal farm and it has been understood. There are some people who are talking about tarmac and we do not have a single murram or all-weather road in our place.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, first, let me thank the Vice Chairperson for the statement. I would really want to know whether we are seriously thinking about opening the roads for the purpose of economic development. In this particular case, why would we have a dual carriageway from Kenol-Murang’a-Marua?
For many years, we were told that the road will be opened all the way to Ethiopia. If this country is seriously thinking about economic development, business and trade and for the purpose of the welfare of Kenyans, this road should be opened all the way to Ethiopia, so that the rest of us can benefit. Secondly, has the Ministry considered the terrain through Murang’a, especially for the heavy vehicles that will use those roads?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to state here that when I rose on this issue on the road from Kenol to Makutano, I did not have any idea about Kirinyaga County. What I had was Mount Kenya and more so, mount Kenya East. Some other sections thought that the road should have made a detour towards Murang’a County. That was not my interest although I would have liked it. The issue was that the road had to start. That is why the super highway all the way to Marua had already been built by the then President.
Sen. Karaba, I was just wondering, is Kirinyaga County part of Mt. Kenya?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I wonder whether it is right for our colleagues from Mount. Kenya region to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is very easy to try and be populist on an issue like this one. I must say that I am the Senator for Murang’a County and not another. Marua Road is very important road and it will be built. The fact that it will be built does not mean that other roads should not be built. Therefore, it is dishonest for the Senator for Kirinyaga to say that he is thinking about the greater good of a region, when they are misleading people that the road does not pass through Sagana – a border town between Murang’a and Kirinyaga counties – which it does. It is a question of demographics, population and road carnage. The fact that that road will be built should not imply that other roads should not be built. The Senator for Kirinyaga County should be the last person to mislead this nation that the road bypasses Sagana or that they are doing it for the greater good. We are talking about the same region when we talk about Sagana as a hub where the road will then detour towards Marua and onwards to Isiolo because this is the Great North Road. It is important that this should be made clear.
Order, Members! I do not know why this matter is exciting passions.
If a section of the House had misunderstood the new announcement, I think that statement has clarified it. So, to me, everybody should be very happy. Sen. Musila, are you not happy?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I raised the issue of intervention quite some time back. If you allow me, I was shocked to hear of C71, C72 to be improved to dual carriageway when for the last 15 years that I have been with you in Parliament, I have been raising the issue of Road B7 – Kibwezi-Kitui. Today, that road remains undone. We even have a copy of a contract signed between the Government and a company to construct the road. A contractor was taken to the road and withdrawn. So, what are we talking about of dual carriageway of roads of category C, when category Bs and As have not been touched? It is a matter of priority. Could we ask that the Cabinet Secretary (CS) addresses the issue of prioritizing roads totally within the Republic? That way, we can see whether counties are receiving the due attention that they deserve.
Order Members! The last one on this; Sen. Ndiema! Be brief because yours must be an afterthought.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is not an afterthought but it is something that has arisen--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
You registered interest on my screen and I had exhausted all of them.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Could the Chairman clarify whether the two roads from Makutano towards Sagana will be made a dual carriageway? Can he tell us the economic rationale for that? Which is the shorter one and which one is more economical in construction? Is it the one from Makutano direct to Sagana or the one detouring through Murang’a? An expert should be able to say it.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. As I had mentioned earlier, we have issued summons against the Cabinet Secretary (CS) and within two weeks---
Is it summons or a request?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is summons because he has failed several times to appear before the Committee and we cannot keep on begging him. So, we will notify the Senate through the Speaker’s office on when he his available, then we can have a
because there are several questions which have been raised and most of them are new. However, I will check in the HANSARD and forward to see if they can be responded to but the way I have seen it, it is important he comes himself to explain.
What is it, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo?
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Did you hear the Chairperson confess that she is unable to deliver the CS here? If she is unable, then she should resign as the Chair.
Order, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo. You know some of these titles we carry must reflect on us. She did not say she is unable to deliver the CS. She has invited you to a meeting with the CS in two weeks’ time and that she has not just invited the CS but she has issued summons. Summons carry serious weight and consequences too. I allowed him because I thought he would ask for a specific date but he has now gone the opposite direction. Chair, we have completed your story. Next statement! DOPING MENACE IN KENYA
Mr. Speaker, Sir, let us do it tomorrow.
I leave it for tomorrow?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
That is correct.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My Committee wrote to the CS on this matter and as of today morning, the answer was ready but it had not been signed by the CS because he has been away. The Ministry said that they will be ready by Thursday morning. So, it is my request that this matter be deferred till Thursday.
Order, Chair! That does not add up. The CS was away and he could not sign, and that your answer was ready as at this morning. Does it take two days to append a signature?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the CS is not available until tomorrow. The information I got was that the letter will be signed and be ready the day after tomorrow.
The Statement will be on the Order Paper on Thursday afternoon.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Even that one is not too far.
Much obliged, Mr. Speaker, Sir. SHORTAGE OF TEACHERS IN WEST POKOT COUNTY
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have not received adequate Statements from the CS for the Ministry of Education. So, I ask for more time.
So what have you received?
I have not received any, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
But you have used the word “adequate”?
I have not received the answer from the CS.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, you can hear the Chairman struggling to tell us how he is not willing to respond to this Statement. I sought to know the causes of the acute shortage of teachers in West Pokot County and by extension, my neighboring counties. He seems not to be taking it seriously the way he was taking the question of the road.
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Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am very serious about Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo’s concerns. In fact, I have been to the CS to seek for this statement but the last time, he was in Kisii and, therefore, he was not available. So, I am sure by next week, everything will be ready for him.
So when are you getting the statement?
I request next week on Tuesday.
It cannot be. The two statements will be on the Order Paper on Thursday this week. The CS has a responsibility to this nation through this House. We are not seeking favours.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will be here on Thursday to---
So do not go pleading.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will even summon him.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to seek the Chair’s indulgence to make a short statement under Standing Order No. 45 (2) (a) by taking this opportunity to congratulate the electorate in Malindi Constituency for overwhelmingly voting for Hon. William Baraka Mtengo as the new Member of Parliament to represent the people of Malindi in the National Assembly following the appointment of the former MP, Hon. Dan Kazungu, to the position of Cabinet Secretary. The results of this by-election have shown - just like they did in Kajiado Central - that dangling goodies to individuals does not seem to impress the electorates. I hope that the protestation coming from the Kenya African National Union (KANU) in Kericho will be addressed and justice will come to the fore, as to whether or not the Senator-elect who was declared the winner was genuinely, validly, openly, fairly and democratically elected. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for recognizing me. Just to add a small thing on what Sen. Wetangula has said. Kenyans must use the elections in Malindi and Kericho as an eye opener. Last evening, we were shocked when we sat before our screens and saw that the results of a county were almost concluded in a record time of two hours, while the one for a constituency took almost ten hours. More shocking, as the results were coming in real time, the votes in the by-election of Kericho were changing by 5,000, 10,000 and 20,000. Was this genuine counting or pre-counted results were being released? Kenyans must know that if we do not remove the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC), it has the potential of sending our country to war. The reasons people are very passionate about elections, my dear Senators from the Jubilee side, is because the political leadership is the one responsible for appropriation of resources; the common wealth of the Republic. When those resources are in the hands of people who want to allocate them to only a particular corner of the country, as you have witnessed in the Statement on roads, it is a recipe for chaos in this country. I do not want to impute any bad motive on a colleague, but if some people on that side are---
Please, conclude, Senator.
We are protecting our children. We want them to live in peace and compete with other Kenyan children. But since their fathers are afraid and do not want to compete with us, they only want to steal elections from us. We condemn Jubilee.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, what we witnessed in Kericho was a competition of political parties that fall under the Jubilee Coalition. We thought it was a healthy competition. We sit on the same side of the Coalition and so, the statements that we heard were not correct; that KANU, my political party, is an opposition party. Those were untruths. However, two scenarios emerged yesterday evening. The IEBC staff in Malindi looked like they were from another country when you compare them to the ones that were in Kericho. The IEBC staff in Kericho either had totally different qualifications or their hands were working like super machines. This is because it took over nine hours to remit results from about 100 polling stations in the Malindi by-election. However, in Kericho, which had over 600 polling stations, the results were being transmitted very fast. In less than two hours, the final results were ready. Also, there is no single polling station in Kericho with over 5,000 voters. Recently, we had a by-election in Nyangores Ward, which had 36 polling stations. It took over eight hours – up to 1.30 a.m. – for the results to be finalized. But yesterday the results were declared just after 9.00 p.m. Since I sit on this side of the Government, we will deal with ourselves and correct one another. In order to defeat the ambitions of Sen. Wetangula and his team to form the Government next year, we must clean ourselves on this side. I agree with Sen. Wetangula that we should address the issue of IEBC now more than ever before. We are ready even to disband it and employ other people, so that we do not experience the type of stealing that we saw. It appears as if looting has moved from The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Order, Senator! Sen. Kanainza, be brief.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also want to add my voice on the same.
It might be your maiden speech after---
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir; being a wife and mother. I want to congratulate our candidate in the Malindi Constituency by-election, hon. Mtengo. I also want to congratulate the Members of Parliament, both from the Senate and the National Assembly, for what they did. What we witnessed in Kericho is a bad culture that is being transferred to the young people. Likewise, in Malindi, there was a lot of bribing. Some people even travelled from Kiambu and Kirinyaga counties to bribe voters. I appreciate the people of Malindi because they took the money, because it belongs to them, but never compromised their constitutional right. This issue needs to be dealt with. At the same time, I condemn the County Commissioner and the police for arresting our Director of Communications, Mr. Philip Etale. What has come out is that the Coalition for Reforms and Democracy (CORD) is powerful in this country. We are watching what the Jubilee Government is doing and we will take power in 2017.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute. I really commend Kenyans, especially in Malindi and Kericho, for being patient despite all the drama that we witnessed. I would like to remind the CORD side that it was a plus for the Jubilee Coalition in the Malindi by-elections compared to the 2013 elections. However, the time has come when we all need to keep an eye on the IEBC because of the complaints that we are getting. I am a victim of the IEBC misdeeds. It took me about six months to come to the Senate because my position had been given to another person after the 2013 General Election. This organisation is led by human beings and it should be held accountable to the people. I do not have any doubt with what happened in Kericho. I think this is the right time to make Kenyans feel that they can count on them on upcoming elections. These complaints are too much, starting from myself because they wasted a lot of time after the general election. It is true that IEBC is not an institution to rely on.
Order, Senators. Before we move to the next Order, we are going to defer Orders No.9, 10 and 11. We will move to Order No.8 and then jump to Order No.12.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It has been stated that the Bill has gone through the First Reading but could you clarify if there is any connection between this Bill and a similar Bill which I moved in this House and which was debated, voted on and passed? It was taken to the National Assembly as a message and was never acted on. The National Assembly, on its part, plagiarized the same and came up with a similar Bill, brought here as a message and we have never acted on it. Is there any relationship?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, indeed this is a worrisome matter. The distinguished Senator for Kakamega brought a Bill and I have looked at it and realised that it is the same. We passed it and messaged it to the National Assembly. Within no time, a Member of the National Assembly plagiarized it, printed and tabled a similar Bill and it was debated. Now the Senate Majority Leader has brought a similar Bill. Where is fidelity to our Members in what they are doing, if this is the case? Before you move to the next Order, I would like you to step down the First Reading of this Bill so that we clarify these issues before we put it on the tread mill. It defeats logic for a Member to painstakingly work on a Bill, bring it, get it debated and then it starts doing rounds through different names and titles. This is not good faith.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to comment on the same. I appreciate the point of order raised on this Bill. This Bill and the one from Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, are indeed very important because they set out the place of the Senate. There is a process being carried out by the Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SCR) regarding job evaluation to determine their place in terms of their status. I think it would make a lot of sense to discuss this Bill and at the Committee stage, bring in amendments to ensure concurrence with that the Senator for Kakamega brought so that we do not lose out on this opportunity by the SRC which is commencing next week, to the best of my knowledge. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
I honestly do not know what you are discussing because if you think about it, it has already gone through the First Reading. The point of order from Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale came after it has been read but I think he is making an extremely important point, which needs to be considered because it has not gone to Second Reading. Therefore, a determination can be made at this point in time. Contrary to what Sen. Kerrow is saying, the issue being raised by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale--- I think he put it a negative way. He wanted to know whether it is the same Bill. It is important to determine whether it is the same Bill and whether we are doing double work. We need to determine that point before we do to the Second Reading. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you cannot stop it now because it has already been read the First Time.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Thank you for the direction you have given. It is important that we look at interference of intellectual property law. What is being articulated in this Bill is the same as what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, my Senator, brought here yet somebody has cooked it and brought it here.
We have already gone through that. The point Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has made is of paramount importance. It is not right that a Senator or any legislator works so hard to create a Bill and somebody takes it over, runs away with it and makes it his or her own. That is a situation that the Speaker’s Office is going to look at and come up with a position on it.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, how many of our Bills have met the same fate? I remember there is one that I generated on Kenya Police Reservists (KPR) and I am told it has---
Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, I think it is important that we do not open up this debate because it is going to be very wide. We all know that it has happened before. Right now, we are discussing this particular Bill. I do not want to open up that debate at the moment because it would be too wide. My view is that we should deal with Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale’s point of order before going to the Second Reading. Let there be a determination by the Rules and Business Committee so that we get proper direction on how we are going to deal with this Bill and similar Bills like the one Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo is bringing into play.
I agree with you but it was just to enrich it; to say that there could be similar Bills that have undergone the same fate. I think we can audit them and look at them before they are brought to the Floor of the House. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Thank you, Senator. Maybe we need to do an audit on all those types of Bills and then deal with them as appropriate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, taking cue from Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale’s point of order, you remember we passed The Persons with Disabilities (Amendment) Bill here. However, it is now more than a year since we passed it and we have not heard from the National Assembly. The other day we saw a similar Bill brought here from the National Assembly for us to discuss it. It seems as if they disregarded the Bill we passed here and introduced a similar one so as to appear as if they are the ones who come up with the best Bills to benefit Kenyans. As a matter of urgency, they need to discuss and pass The Persons with Disabilities (Amendment) Bill which was passed by this House.
My direction is that the Rules and Business Committee (RBC) should give a way forward on that issue of Order No.8 which has been read a First Time before it goes on Second Reading. It is not possible for us to deal with Order Nos.12 and 13 because we do not have the requisite number. Therefore, let us move on to Order No.14.
Sen. Sijeny, please, proceed. You have five minutes left.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I had actually finished my contribution. All I have to say now is I beg to support.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to contribute to this Bill which was brought here by my sister and Member of my delegation. She is also a cereals grower. The Constitution has largely devolved the function of agriculture. This Bill is meant to operationalize this devolved function. We need to devolve the role of the National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB) to the counties. Cereals are important to the economy of any country. When we talk about food sufficiency and security, what comes to mind are cereals; that is, ugali, bread and rice that we consume every day. To ensure that there is adequate food in this country, that sector should be well managed. We must make sure we do not have food shortages in this The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Sen. Ndiema, your time is up. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, would you add me some time?
You have two minutes.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I was saying that the research sector has been neglected. Unless we introduce the youth and recruit them into our research institutions, there is no future for research in this country. I support.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also join my colleagues in congratulating Sen. Kittony, who is a large scale-farmer in Trans-Nzoia, for reading the Constitution of Kenya, 2010 properly. The Fourth Schedule of the Constitution enumerates the functions of the national and county governments. The first function, which has been devolved, is agriculture. There are a total of 14 functions under the county governments. In the national government functions, agriculture is number 29 out of 35. It strictly talks about agriculture. However, the activities and functions of agriculture, which is the mainstay of the economy of Kenya – our GDP relies heavily on agriculture – were devolved to the county governments. The key instruments that enable agriculture to be what it is were maintained at the national level. It is supposed to be strictly policy. One of the institutions that are supposed to work seriously is the National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB). The law was supposed to be amended immediately to enable the devolved functions to be executed in the counties. Although the Bill has come three years later, it will give us a major boost in implementing this Constitution and guarantee that we have food in our country. One of the key functions of the NCPB as indicated here is to guarantee food security. Should there be food scarcity in Kenya, the NCPB would provide food. In the 1970s and 1980s, many silos and stores were built across the country, including areas where most cereals were not grown. This is because the people of Kenya depend mainly on cereals for food. If you visit Turkana, in all the six constituencies, there is one large NCPB. It is a store where Government buys cereals and stores them. From there, the local people can easily access food to buy or get relief food. It is accessible. In most of our counties we have them, including Nairobi County which has many poor people. However, when we promulgated the new Constitution, we did not devolve the NCPB to the counties. The hon. Senator who brought this Bill has talked about counties which produce food. I propose that at the Committee of the Whole, we should amend this to include all the 47 counties. All of them must have the County Cereals and Produce Committee. The Committees will advise the governor and county residents. Having looked at the production level of food, they can have their own silos. Then, you can easily engage counties that produce cereals, buy and store them. It defeats logic that year in, year out, we go to the Port of Mombasa and wait for foodstuffs, mainly wheat and maize to be brought and sold here. Cartels have a habit of messing up the internal mechanisms used to boost our agricultural sector so that they quickly go to the port of Mombasa, import food and sell it at exorbitant price. I thank the promoter of the Bill because she has gone further and listed the kind of people who are required to sit in this Committee. She has cited six or seven people. Regarding the first one; a person with knowledge and experience in matters related to agriculture and will be appointed by the county governor---. This is true. However, all the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, today is a special day for the women of this country because we are celebrating the International Women’s Day. Therefore, I join my fellow Senators to celebrate the women in this House. I congratulate Sen. Kittony for working on the Bill. I understand agriculture is a devolved function of the county government. It is important that this function is adequately funded. The county assemblies in turn will legislate in order to safeguard agriculture. Kenya is endowed with good soil, climate and rainfall but it is unfortunate that the law is not applied resulting in starvation and deaths. If these boards are established, it will be a milestone. Trans Nzoia County is the food basket of Kenya but it is going down. If cereals boards are devolved to the 47 counties, we shall achieve the economic development and food security of this country. I support.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support this Amendment Bill. I have been reminded by Sen. Kanainza that today is their day. However, it does not appear in our Constitution and, therefore, I am not sure if it is a matter that should be admitted in this House. If the women have adopted a day for themselves, I---
Order, Sen. M. Kajwang. Today is the International Women’s Day. It does not matter if it is provided for in the Constitution or not. There is absolutely nothing wrong in my estimation for Sen. Kanainza to celebrate her colleagues like Sen. Kittony on such an important day.
Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. If it is an international day, it applies to Kenya. We need to be reminded constantly of some of these international dates and the obligations upon us. It is a good day that this amendment Bill is before this House by Sen. Kittony who has been a stalwart in the women’s movement. I see no better way of celebrating the contributions that she has made to this nation. After many years, she still has the energy and stamina to think through legislation. I remember during my early days, I supported a The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Thank you, Senator. Sen. Kittony, would you like to reply now?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to reply and sincerely thank those who have contributed to this Bill. I have taken note of all the suggestions that have been made. I want to say that the Bill was properly researched. We will deal with the amendments at the Committee of the Whole. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have taken note of major cereal producing counties. Listening to my colleagues’ contributions, they proposed that counties like Kirinyaga, Nyandarua and Kericho be added to the list. So, I would like to specially thank those who have contributed to this Bill in a special way. The Bill will help our county governments especially because we have seen what happens. Farmers have suffered in the hands of middlemen. Therefore, if these committees are put in place at the county level, it will alleviate a lot of problems that farmers face. We will also be assured of good storage if county governments establish better storage for grain.That way, we can be sure that this country will go for many years without facing hunger or food being wasted. I appreciate all the comments and contributions that have been put into the Bill. I would like to thank my colleagues for the support given to this Bill. For those who have time tomorrow, we will have a public hearing at the Kenyatta International Convention Centre (KICC), 2nd floor. Therefore, it will be another level of getting more contributions and it has created a lot of interest. I can assure you that I think Kenyans have been waiting for this. Since we are in a devolved system, it would be best to devolve the National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB) so that farmers get the necessary assistance that they require for their grain. In conclusion, I would like to request that pursuant to Standing order No. 54(3), you defer putting of the question on this Bill until tomorrow.
Thank you, Sen. Kittony. So, ordered.
Honourable Senators, let me reorganize the Order Paper again. Let us go back to Order No. 12.
Hon. Senators, we are on the Water Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 27 of 2014).
There is no amendment on Clauses 3 and 4. Can I put the question at the end because it will require a Division?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir. There were some amendments which are listed on the Order Paper which need to be cleared first before we go to Division. I was expecting the Report of the Committee which was suspended two weeks ago by the Speaker because we were supposed to bring in a second memorandum from the Council of Governors (CoG) which has already been done. We were now just to go through the amendments which start from Clause 8. After that, we can defer ---
Order, Senator! I had said that for putting of the question that Clauses 3 and 4 be part of the Bill will come towards the end. You can request for deferment at that time. As of now, I defer putting of the question. So, we move on.
I will put the question at the end.
I will put the question at the end.
I will put the question at the end.
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Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT,Clause 8B be amended in sub-clause (5) by deleting the word “three” appearing immediatelyafter the word “resource strategy” and substituting therefore with the word “five”. This means that strategic studies will be done every five years which coincides with the life of a Parliament.
I will put the question at the end.
Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 19 of the Bill be amended in sub clause (1) by inserting the words “geo referenced” immediately after the words “monitoring and”.
Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 24 of the Bill be amended in sub clause (1) (b) by inserting the words “appointed by the appointing authority after approval by the county assembly” immediately after the words “the basin”. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 25 of the Bill be amended by inserting the words “and county governments” immediately after the word “Authority” appearing on the second line. Chair, this will allow county governments to be involved in the implementation of this law..
Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THATclause 30 of the Bill be amended in sub clause (1)(d) by inserting the words “and rules and regulations” immediately after the words “harvesting policy”. Chair, this will allow the Cabinet Secretary to make rules and regulations in tandem with other legislations. Thank you.
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Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 63 be amended in the head note appearing immediately before the clause by deleting the word “Boards” and substituting therefore the word “Agencies”.
Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 64 be amended in sub Clause 1 (b) by inserting the words “from the respective counties” immediately after the words “the Cabinet Secretary”. Chair, this will allow the counties affected in a water basin to be part of the process of the law.
Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 72 (a) of the Bill be amended- (a) In the marginal note by deleting the word “accreditation” and substituting therefor the word “licensing”; and (b) In sub clause (3) by deleting the word “accreditation” appearing immediately after the words “applicant meets the” and substituting therefor the word “licensing”. Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, there will be many areas in this Bill where this amendment will come wherever we have accreditation and it is supposed to be replaced with the word “licensing” because we are talking of licensing and not accrediting.
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Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 73 of the Bill be amended:- (1) In sub clause (1)- (a) In the marginal note by deleting the word “accredited” and substituting therefor the word “licensed”; (b) By deleting the word “accredited” appearing immediately after the words “register of all” in the introductory phrase and substituting therefor the word “licensed”; and (c) In paragraph (c) by deleting the word “accredited” appearing immediately after the words “providers are” and substituting therefor the word “licensed”; and (d) In paragraph (d) by deleting the word “accreditation” appearing immediately after the words “to their” and substituting therefor the word “licence”; (2) In sub clause (2) by deleting the word “accredited” appearing immediately after the words “register of the” and substituting therefor the word “licensed”; and (3) In sub clause (4) by deleing the word “accredited” appearing immediately after the words “conduct of” and substituting therefore the word “licensed”.
Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 74 of the Bill be amended- (1) In the marginal note by deleting the word “accreditation” and substituting therefor the words “a license”; (2) In sub clause (1)- (a) by deleting the word “accreditation” appearing immediately after the words “revoke the” and substituting therefore the word “license”; (b) in paragraph (a) by deleting the word “accreditation” appearing immediately after the words “Board that the” and substituting therefor the word “licensing”; (c) in paragaraph (b) by deleting the word “accreditation” appearing immediately after the words “criteria for” and substituting therefore the word “license”; (d) in paragraph (c) by deleting the word “accredited” appearing immediately after the words “they were” and substituting therefor the word “licensed”; (e) in paragraph (e) by deleting the word “accreditation” appearing immediately after the words “conditions for” and substituting therefore the word “licensing”; (3) in sub clause (2) by deleting the word “accreditation” appearing immediately after the words “revocation of” and substituting therefor the word “license”; and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Chairman, Sir, this amendment was from Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. When the Speaker gave us the option to go and re-look at our Committee Report, we took the report from the Council of Governors and also the request from Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., to insert an amendment and we combined his amendment. So, what we have here is the request from Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. which we consented to.
Are you suggesting that whatever Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. had indicated as an amendment before should be dropped?
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, it is exactly what is in Clause 75.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, there was also the thinking and contribution from the Council of Governors. Now that the Mover has indicated that this was the thinking of Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., could you confirm what the position of the governors was?
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, my brother, the Senator for Kakamega made some comments two weeks ago when this matter came up. We had a 76- page request from the Council of Governors last year and we sat with them together with their lawyers. I submitted that last time. We got another requisition from the Council of Governors, and apparently, it was a cut and paste of last year’s requisition, except on four points. We sat as a Committee last week and deliberated on the extra four points and the extra requisition from Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, that is why in the amendments that we have already moved we are actually adding words like “with the approval of the county assembly” and “shall include county governments.” To answer what the Senator is asking, all the requests from the Council of Governors have been fully addressed, including the extra requisition from the Senator for Makueni County. In that case Chair, I allow me to make that amendment.
You will now be carrying the amendment which has been proposed by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. You can go on.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, my Committee took over the amendment requested by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. He called me and we agreed to take it up. It is the one on Clause 75. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT clause 75 of the Bill be amended by deleting sub clause 1 and substituting therefor the following new sub clause — (1)Each county government shall establish a water services provider. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
In your amendment you are proposing to have one water service provider per county. What about those counties with many currently?
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I do not think there is a county with many. In most counties, we had many districts before.
Kajiado is one of them.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, if they have one then there is no problem. For example, Embu County has sub-locations that have water services companies, which do not function well. Some of them are rip-offs. We create a law to enable counties administer the water services as counties and not as small segregated bodies.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I want to applaud the Committee. This was an area that called for a lot of active participation by the Council of Governors and many Senators. I do not know whether the Committee thought about it, but the amendment, as it is now, sufficiently gives that one body the power to preside over all other smaller entities. In some instances, we have an entity that serves one or two sub-locations and they have been collecting some little money here and there. Are you telling us that the way you have made it, it has given this one county institution the power to preside over all the smaller ones? If you could clarify, I would be satisfied and happy.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, the clarification sought is good and valid. Our understanding as a Committee is that we have a national resource called water, which may be traversing several counties. Therefore, the national Government will take this resource; get the water and give it to counties. You cannot go to a county and supply it to every small Tom, Dick and Harry. There must be a body within the county that is mandated in law to receive the water. If this body within the county decides that they can supply water to so many other agencies within the county that would be decided by the county.
That is a good clarification. I know where Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is coming from. We used to have the district water offices, which manned the water sector throughout the former old districts, including collecting bills, but they were not effective. Forming the county service water providers The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
The Temporary Chairman, Sir, the point is taken. I believe the county governments will also have subsidiary legislation at county levels on how to deal with the smaller water providers within each county. This law is not cast in stone. If the Senate feels that there is something that needs to be addressed within the county, we are within the mandate as the overseer of county business.
I will put the question at the end.
There are no amendments to these Clauses. Therefore, we will vote on them at the end
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 102 of the Bill be amended by deleting sub clause (1) and substituting therefor the following new sub clause- “A water user may enter into an agreement with any person with respect to the execution and maintenance by any party to the agreement of such works as the water user considers necessary or as the conditions of the water user may require for the purposes of protecting the catchment areas, drainage of land; carrying out conservation measures and control of the vegetation or effectively collecting, conveying or preserving the purity and quantity of water which the water user is for the time being authorised to take”. Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, this is an obvious wording of the Clause so that the water catchment areas conservation is not left to some big authorities somewhere, but there is more public participation in the water conservation arena.
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There are no amendments to these Clauses. Therefore, we will vote on them at the end
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 107 of the Bill be deleted. This was dealing with the sewerage levy while this Bill is mainly on water.
There will not be any levy if one is connected to the sewer system?
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, this Bill in all sections is dealing with water resources, management and delivery. It is not dealing with waste water management.
There is no amendment to this Clause. Therefore, we will vote on it at the end
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 109 of the Bill be amended in sub clause (1) by inserting the words“georeferenced” immediately after the words “monitoring and”. We had said this earlier on. When we talk of a geodatabase, if it is not georeferenced, it may not give location of where the services are being rendered. That is why we wanted to add the word georeferenced
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. I am sorry for dragging the proceedings. However, for purposes of records, it is important for the Chairperson of the Committee to be clear. Is there a separate provision for sewerage since he is categorically saying that this Bill is deleting Clause 107 which was referring The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, when we talk of waste water and disposal and how it is treated, that will be a completely different topic which will touch on environment and other regulations which are not just for water. If you remember in the beginning, we put an amendment to add water for domestic use; portable water. We would like to treat the resource and the water usage in this Bill as it is not talking of irrigation or sewerage and waste water management. Those aspects may be taken care of in another Bill. Otherwise, we would have expanded the Bill to be too wide and lose sight of the core subject. If you look at what everybody thinks about in Kenya; it is how to get water from the source to the mwananchi . I hope that gives Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale some good insight.
I believe that the worries of Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale have been taken care of. In this Bill, we will be taking the water to
Therefore, whatever will come out as waste will be taken care of by another Bill. Does that mean that you will create other agencies to take care of that?
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, it is good for me to mention that when we think of water management and expand beyond what water is defined as in the Constitution, and at the beginning of the Bill, we have defined “water” as it is in the Constitution. If we divulge more than that, we shall enter into the realm of environment and we may end up not addressing water per se . We may end up addressing many other aspects of human habitation. If you ask any Kenyan about sewerage, they do not see it as water. They see it as something else, say, treatment of shit and waste.
My concern is similar to that of Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. The residents of Kiserian went to court and won a case simply because they argued that they take water, but after they use it, where do they take the waste? As a result, the water provider was forced by the court to provide sewerage. I can happily report that we currently have a project coming up to cater for that.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I do not want to go into a very big argument. The same can come out of the word drainage. If people went to court that you have brought water to them and it erodes their gardens as a result of erosion, you must compensate them. We can also talk about management of water. In this city, we have a lot of problem of storm water drainage. If one went to court that somebody was swept away by water, the Ministry of Water and Natural Resources would be liable because it has to manage even the storm water. Therefore, if we start to talk about water, waste water, erosion, environment and many other aspects of water, I believe that we may not be addressing what is being addressed in this Bill which is mainly the issue of management of water resources from country to county level.
I request you to read for us Clause 107; the one you are deleting.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, the best way forward would be to refer to our Committee notes. It was not the decision of one person who said, “let us The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Are you saying that the issue of sewerage is not covered?
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, not only sewerage but even levies for water; we have not fixed collection of levies and how much they would be in this Bill. All that will come in the regulations.
Okay. Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, in the Second Reading of the Bill, most of the Senators who contributed had no problem with Clause 107. However, it looks like after the Committee retreated, on further consultations, they were persuaded. This is the time for the reasons that were advanced by the other stakeholders to find their way to the Floor of this House so that you persuade us to agree with the Committee in its agreement with the stakeholders. Is it that those notes are too much? Will it not take less than three or five minutes?
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I have no specific reason against Clause 107 but the truth of the matter is that, after the Second Reading, we went for public hearings. After public hearings, we took the comments and then, after that we felt that public hearings were inadequate because the Council of Governors (CoG) sent us a very long list. I decided that we should hold another seminar which should not only include the CoG but also all parastatals that deal with water, including the Ministry. We had that seminar in Naivasha for three days. That is the time we went clause by clause. We took the comments from each and every stakeholder. After that, among the amendments which I have introduced today, there is somewhere where we have introduced that regulations to this Act would be made. Those regulations will take care of all levies not only for sewerage but also for water. As we know, from our common knowledge of other Acts, we do not mix the regulations in the main Act because this one changes from time to time. I believe and can tell you for sure that this will not make this Act any less. When the regulations are instituted, we shall make sure that any aspect of water management that needs to be regulated ought to be The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, are you convinced?
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, when I apply my mind to this Bill further, I am persuaded that Clause 107 should remain. Its effect is that the regulatory board may impose. It does not say, “shall” impose. So, one of the reasons that the Chairman has advanced is that the issue of sewerage is being removed from this Bill but when you look at Clause 106, that is not true. Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, if you have the Bill before you, Clause 106 talks about effluent. The moment you go into effluent, you are no longer talking about water; you are talking about sewerage. I would rather that unless the Chairman really pleads, in view of the thinking advanced in the House now, it is dangerous for amendment to Clause 107 to carry. It is not compulsory for the Committee. It talks about “may.” Therefore, you can still get what you want through the regulations when you are making them.
Chairman, can you consider to suspend that amendment?
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, in life, there is always give and take. Since I do not see any harm even if it is retained - I was just going through it - whether it is there or not, the Bill would not be adversely affected.
Can you pronounce yourself that you withdraw that amendment?
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, following the intervention of my colleague Senator on Clause 107, I propose to drop that amendment.
Thank you. You have also made my day.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 114 of the Bill be amended in sub clause (1) by deleting paragraph (g) and substituting therefor the following new paragraph- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 115 be amended in sub clause (1) by deleting paragraphs (b) and (c).
Mr. Chairman, Sir, can we allow the Chairman to explain more because I can see the Chair is dropping critical provisions. In Clause 115, you are dropping amongst others sub-clause (b) which states:- “the monies of the funds shall consist of monies provided to the fund from the Equalisation Fund.” Since the money from the Equalisation Fund is constitutional, are you dropping in anticipation of its unavailability or what do you imply? Paragraph (c) states- “(c) any money provided to the fund by a county government” We expect the county government in its Appropriation Bill each year to consider giving money to this. Kindly clarify so that we see the wisdom of dropping those provisions.
Mr. Chairman, Sir, he has already given me one answer because I remember we debated this and there is no way we can expect the National Water Trust Fund to be receiving money from the Equalisation Fund. It cannot work. If money is shared to the counties, we cannot expect money from the counties to be given to the National Trust Fund. Therefore, we are removing (b) and (c).
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 117 of the Bill be amended by deleting the words “which shall be a subordinate court” as provided under Article 169(1) (d) of the Constitution”. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 130 of the Bill be amended by inserting the words “conservation and” immediately after the words “for the”. Mr. Chairman, when we say levies will be managed for the management of the water resources, we should also include conservation.
I will put the question at the end.
Since there are no amendments, I will put the question at the end.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 139 of the Bill be amended by inserting the words “a county government” immediately after the words “Cabinet Secretary”. Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, we need to entrench the involvement of county governments in this Bill.
I will put the question at the end. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 140 of the Bill be amended in— (a) sub clause (2)(a) by deleting the word “commission” appearing immediately after the words “Authority, the” and substituting therefor the word “Board”; and (b) sub clause (2)(h) by inserting the words “or the Board” immediately after the word “Authority”. Mr. Temporary Chairman, this is just rewording of the Clauses.
I will put the question at the end.
There are no amendments. So, I will put the question at the end.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 154 of the Bill be amended in sub clause 5 by deleting the word “Board” appearing immediately after the words “event that the” and substituting therefor the word “Authority”. Mr. Temporary Chairman, This is rewording of the sentences to make better sense.
I will put the question at the end.
There are no amendments. So, I will put the question at the end. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
There are no amendments. So, I will put the question at the end.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 2 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new definition in its proper alphabetical order – “Wetland” means an area where plants and animals have become adapted to temporary or permanent flooding by saline, brackish or fresh water”. Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, whoever drafted this Bill had forgotten to add the word “wetland.” We felt it was a very important aspect of this when we talk about water resources. For that reason, we had to get a definition which is proper. This came from some of members of the public who turned up for public participation.
I need to understand the difference between wetlands and water towers.
Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I do not remember which areas are wetlands. The word “wetland” was in the body of the Bill but it was not defined. So, the question arose about the meaning of the word “wetland”. This is because the areas to be conserved were riverine. Wetlands was not defined in the Bill. So, we had to define it.
I will put the question at the end.
I will put the question at the end. I now call the Mover to report progress of the Committee.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. Pursuant to Standing Order No. 139, I beg to move that the Committee do report progress and its consideration of the Water Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 7 of 2014) and seek leave to sit again tomorrow.
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Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to report progress; that the Committee of the whole has considered The Water Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 7 of 2014) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report.
Hon. Senators, the next order is again a Committee of the Whole and we will require more minutes than the remaining minutes that the House is supposed to sit. We should defer Order No. 3. We had disposed of Order No. 14 so we move to the next Order.
On a point of order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. This is with regard to the Universities (Amendment) Bill. We are only amending three clauses and 15 minutes would be enough; could we finalize and dispose of that matter? Thank you. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
I order that it should be among the first Orders of the House Business tomorrow. Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, we are on the debate on the County Library Services Bill (Senate Bill No. 6 of 2015).
Thank you Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I first want to congratulate Sen. Mohamud for coming up with this Bill. If there is a Bill that is going to assist our people to---
Did you say you are congratulating Sen. Mohamud?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thought this is Sen. Mohamud’s Bill.
This is Sen. Gwendo’s Bill.
They resemble one another Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
Maybe you need to describe what you mean.
The Bill is by Sen. Gwendo.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to congratulate Sen. Gwendo through her sister, Sen. Abdille. This Bill is important because it talks about the establishment of libraries in every county. There are some counties like Kisumu and Nairobi that already have these services but they need to be established even at the sub-county level. As indicated here, this Bill is supposed to establish county libraries in each county. It also proposes to establish a county library development committee in each county that will run these libraries. I hope that this Bill, among other Senate Bills, will see the light of day and be enacted into law. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we cannot be proud to have a population that is not literate. In Europe and some of the developed countries almost every town, city or village has a library which is well stocked with old and latest books. They now have the digital versions that are stored in their computers. Some of the people who never went to school are now undertaking distant learning and adult education. When I was in England, I was impressed by the way people take reading as a culture. Every afternoon you would find many people crowded in a library in a small town. Some of them are over 60 years old and you would wonder why they were reading. Since knowledge empowers, this is something that we need to encourage, particularly now that we have a devolved system, where counties govern themselves. There is a lot of historical data that is meant to enrich people in terms of clans, tribes and even the history of this nation. There is need for people, especially from Nyeri, Kiambu and other counties to learn how we got our Independence. Most of the people in those counties suffered during the Mau Mau war. The data relating to how people died and our nation was redeemed can only be found and stored in libraries and not in the museum. That is why it is a pity that The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Order, Senator! You will have five minutes to conclude your contribution when this debate resumes.
Hon. Senators, it is now time to interrupt the business of the Senate. Therefore, the Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, 9th March, 2016 at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes