Hon. Senators, I have two petitions to present. The first one is a Petition by Mr. David O. Gesicho for enactment of legislation to confine the National and county governments to the exclusive use of interest free Islamic bonds, Sukuk, in borrowing from the domestic and international financial markets. Hon. Senators, pursuant to Standing Orders No.220(1) (a) and 225(2) (b), I hereby report to the Senate that a petition has been submitted, through the Clerk, by Mr. David O. Gesicho, a resident of Kakamega County, proposing the enactment of legislation to confine the National and county governments to the exclusive use of interest free Islamic bonds known as Sukuk in borrowing from the domestic and international financial markets. In summary, the petitioner states:- (a) That, Kenya has over the years been operating an unbalanced annual budget, which has resulted in a budget deficit that keeps growing; (b) That, the National Treasury has been borrowing from the domestic and international financial markets to plug these deficits, and this has had an unhealthy effect of increasing and sustaining high interest rates in the domestic financial markets; (c) That, Islamic banking is also known as interest free banking system, as the Sharia disallows the acceptance of riba or interest for the acceptance of and lending of money; (d) That, one of the ways of taming the high interest rates in the country is by way of sovereign borrowing from the domestic and international financial markets using instruments that adhere to the Islamic Sharia known as Sukuk; and, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to contribute to the last petition. Is that in order or should I do so based on how you have read them?
Pick your preference.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I prefer that I speak on the issue of the ECDE teachers from Laikipia County. The Committee on Education has already proposed and discussed a Bill on this issue. According to the Bill, the ECDE teachers will be paid by the Teachers Service Commission (TSC). In our deliberations, we realized that a teacher is defined as somebody who discharges the teaching activity in a classroom. Since the ECDE pupils are seated in a classroom designed for teaching purposes, the person who teaches, therefore, is referred to as a teacher. That is one of the mandates of the TSC, to make sure that all those teaching in the country are employed. The TSC is supposed to recruit and define remuneration. In this case, therefore, the petitioner should wait for the Bill to see what will happen after it is assented to. After that, the TSC will be mandated to pay the ECDE teachers. Likewise, Mr. Speaker, Sir, the definition of a classroom, which is the infrastructure that the petitioner is complaining about is also well defined in the Bill. The Bill states that a classroom should be the best classroom model in a public school. We have stated that the moment you get to any school, the best classroom that you should get to see is the ECDE class. I am, therefore, imploring on the county governments to make sure that they come up with the best classrooms which will accommodate the ECDE pupils. My Committee has toured several number of counties and we have seen that effort has been made---
Order, Senator. Can you conclude?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I conclude by saying that this issue is well defined in the Bill. We should wait to see what is contained ---
Order, Senator. You are being repetitive. I see interest in this issue is quite immense. I will allow a maximum of two minutes per contribution.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, make it four minutes because we have two petitions. That is my request.
Life is a matter of priorities. Speak on the one you think you need to.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will make quick comments on the two starting with the petition by Mr. Gesicho.
Maybe in appreciation of your new role of being the Deputy Majority Leader, three minutes shall be granted.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On the petition on prudence on financial management and particularly on borrowing, the message the petitioner is trying to pass, and I know the Committee will have to look at it is prudence in terms of borrowing. I do not want us to look at the details at this point in time in terms of whether we will use Islamic or non-Islamic ways of borrowing. However, as a country, we need to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Thank you for keeping within your time with a balance of 12 seconds.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, mine is to comment on the petition from Laikipia County. When I was serving in ICT and the Committee on Education, we visited Laikipia County. The Governor of Laikipia and his Executive Committee Member (CEC) in charge of education looked very ambitious. They took us to places and there was a lot of preparedness. As it were, we created a concept and a policy of the best classroom policy whereby the kindergarten should be the best class. As I have said earlier in this House, the role of assemblies, especially committees of assemblies, which are supposed to pick up policies that we have passed here, seems not to have taken root. Therefore, it will be interesting for me to watch and then critic that. County assemblies also need to follow up from the mother House, the policies we pass here to interrogate the work of the county governments. That is the only interest I had on that. We will look at it further.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also wish to add on the two minutes of each of the Senators. I will save some time.
Order, Senator! I granted Sen. Murkomen three minutes and I qualified my action. However, you are nowhere nearer.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I oblige. I was not in Kericho. I did not manage to do what my brother did. He deserved three minutes. I will only take two minutes in that case. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you. On the borrowing, I encourage the Committee that will look at the petition to engineer a change in the law and the Constitution. This is for the reason that while the National Assembly approves external borrowing by the National Government, the Senate should be mandated to approve the borrowing by the county governments. That is our primary responsibility. We should protect counties and their governments, including their interests. The second is on ECD classrooms. When the Constitution was crafted, something must have been omitted. To just have moved pre-primary education to counties without taking care of standardization, curriculum development and so on, was wrong. The petition should also be given attention by the Standing Committee on Education and the Bill that the Chairman of the Committee on Education talked about though it is yet to reach in this House. This will ensure that when we deal we ECD infrastructure, the counties can build the basic infrastructure, say, classrooms and so on. However, teachers remain teachers. They must be teachers hired for, disciplined, prompted and paid for by the TSC. This should include teachers of villager polytechnics. It is part of education. That way, we can maintain national standards across the country. Otherwise, some counties which have been marginalized and oppressed since Independence will be hiring standard seven pupils, who are not even trained to teach ECD classrooms and others will hire surplus- trained teachers to teach ECD classrooms. That way, we will distort the standards. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Order, Sen. Bule! If you wanted to confirm that you kept away, you do not do it by approaching the microphone on your own Motion. Proceed, Sen. Wangari!
Asante sana, Bw. Spika
Maseneta waheshimiwa, kama hatujawahi kutambua Lugha ya Kiswahili, tuitambue leo. Pongezi sana, Sen. Wangari, kwa ufasaha wako wa lugha hii ya taifa.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I cannot attempt to speak in Kiswahili Language like Sen. Wangari.
What is it, Sen. Bule?
Jambo la nidhamu, Bw. Spika. Yangu ni kuhusu leader ya wadogo---
Yaani kiongozi wa wachache ambaye hakunitambua nikiwa Malindi. Ninamhakikishia kwamba nilileta kura 3,000 kutoka kwa muungano wa CORD na kujiunga na muungano wa Jubilee. Kwa hivyo, wanachama wa CORD wanafaa kujua kwamba huko si kwao tena. Ninawapongeza kwa kunishinda kwanza. Lakini, wajue kwamba tunakula kwa sahani moja. Wametushinda leo, kesho tutawashinda. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Speaker, Sir, you will appreciate that the proceedings of this Senate are covered live. In fact, some times in the Gallery, we have students like we do now. We cannot send the message that a point of order can be permissible against a Member who left the Floor and paved way for another Member to proceed articulating his own business. The point of order came belatedly. Is the Member in order to raise a point of order against a Member who spoke two Members away from the time he is asking? Is this the message we want to send to the country?
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! That is a good observation. However, you will appreciate the Member for Tana River, after being mentioned by your leader, decided to make a contribution out of turn. I had to instruct him on the right procedure. The fact that he followed the right procedure was a good opportunity for him to start learning and acquire the good practices of the House. The particular matter had not been concluded. If we were out of that particular order, then you would be perfectly in order. However, for the benefit of all of you, what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has mentioned is the proper procedure. You should make your interventions during that particular time. Although Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you will also appreciate that that was the parting shot of your leader. Therefore, you can only do it after him. Proceed, Sen. Lesuuda!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I add my voice on then petition from Laikipia County. The ECDs were devolved, but not for the sake of it. The first formative years of children are very important, especially on education matters. Having listened to the Chairperson of the Committee on Education, even as we wait for the Bill that is before the National Assembly, some of the issues raised here are pertinent. The Committee can look at them before the Bill comes to the Senate. It is also important for county governments to focus on the functions devolved to them. We are aware of counties which are going ahead to build primary, secondary schools or police posts while they have not exhausted their functions like Early Childhood Development and Education (ECDE). I believe that the Committee can look at the issues of Laikipia even as we wait for the Bill. Regarding the issue of borrowing and interest rates, this is a concern for all Kenyans. Our counties should not find themselves at crossroads where they have borrowed heavily in a way that cannot be sustainable. This could definitely weigh on the counties and they would not deliver on the functions they have.
Hon. Senators, time is expiring, so I will allow one minute each because I see the interest is quite huge.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also want to add my voice. My major concern is on the petition concerning ECDE. I sit in the Committee onEducation and we have met the County Executive Committee Members (CECs) from all the 47 counties and other stakeholders in charge of education. We have deliberated on a number of issues thereby enabling us to generate the ECDE Bill. The Senate dealt with it and it is now with the National Assembly. I urge the leadership of the Senate to look into it so that it can be fast-tracked. In the Bill, we are dealing with setting of standards that touches on infrastructure. The Kenya Curriculum Development, which replaced the KIE, has dealt The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Order, Senator. Your time is up.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issue of ECDE is so important and I am happy it has been brought to the Senate. ECDE is the foundation of education. This is the time when children are so impressionable that if they are not interested in education because the facilities are not good or that they are not getting good teaching, they lose interest in education for the rest of their lives. We appreciate those counties which have taken ECDE very seriously. My view is that since ECDE is important, that is where the child should commence being taught the values of nationalism, the national anthem, the importance of a nation and so on. This is to enable them appreciate what it means to be a citizen of this great country.
Order. Your time is up.
There must be a mistake.
Sen. Kembi-Gitura, there is no mistake. If you want additional time, do not minimize the one you have used. I will allow you another minute.
In my very considered opinion, the kindergarten or ECDEs classes are so important. Therefore, the basics of the Constitution and the importance of having a nation should be taught so that they grow appreciating what it is to be a citizen of a country as great as this one.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding the petition concerning ECDEs, we appreciate that counties have invested in construction of classrooms for ECDEs but unfortunately, there are no standards. In my county now, every ward has two new classrooms. I have toured some wards where classrooms have been completed, but there are no desks and sanitary provisions. Regarding the issue of teachers, I think counties should be allowed to play some part in the recruitment of ECD teachers. I think that the teachers who have been there before---
Your time is up.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to say that the residents of Laikipia have done well to bring this petition. This is a replica of what is taking place in most counties, but they forgot to read what is devolved as function No.9. Pre-primary education, village polytechnics, home craft and childcare facilities are fully devolved. The governors and the CECs have concentrated on a wrong function. They are dealing with primary schools because they have many parents and also secondary schools which The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is very sad that while all the students sit the same exam nationally, some students are given a solid foundation while others encounter what you can refer to as real learning in class three or four. This is a very important petition from Laikipia County that I believe speaks for all Kenyans from all counties. The rough example of Nairobi is that a child in Lavington will have the benefit of getting proper ECDE but a child in Korogocho, Mathare or elsewhere, will not even know what a library or a textbook look like. These two children will be expected to sit for the same examination in Class Eight or Form Four. This is a good petition that if we consider appropriately, it is going to help many Kenyans especially from poor backgrounds and rural areas.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the narrative we have heard about Laikipia is happening in almost all the 47 counties. We have the same problem in Vihiga. It has been said that ECDE is the foundation and it is of paramount importance that we build strong foundation for our children. I want to fully support the idea of placing the ECDE tutors under TSC. When you refer this petition to the relevant committee, I want them to make very strong recommendation that ECDE teachers must be paid by TSC. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have been pushing for a Bill where I wanted us to give extra responsibilities to the county governments, for example, infrastructure development in schools.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to talk about the petition by David Gesicho on the issue of Sukuk and Islamic bonds. It is very painful to pay interest on a loan that has been used improperly. We need to look at the depth and root of this petition. If as a country or a county, you borrow US$1 billion which cannot be traced or Kshs791 million is traced to the political class, it becomes very painful to repay that interest. I pray that the Committee will use the Eurobond as a case study of how Government borrowing should not be done. I also hope that the Committee will come up with solid and very actionable proposals on how money borrowed by the governments should be used properly and not on amorphous items like we saw in the Ministry for Devolut9ion.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for this opportunity. Let me add my voice by raising some concerns. As we wait for the ECDE Bill, I would like the Committee to look into the issues of accessibility of ECDE centres that are being developed by county governments. Secondly, they should look into the employment of special ECDE teachers. When county governments employ ECD teachers, they should also employ special needs ECD teachers. They should also look into the issue of programming and having special needs curriculum that will take care of early childhood with special needs. I commend my county, Kakamega. I have been moving from ward to ward and I have seen the standard of ECDE that have been ---
Order, Senator! Your time is up. That is the end of that particular Order. Hon. Senators, pursuant to Standing Order No. 227(1), the petition for enactment of legislation to confine the national and county governments to the exclusive use of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Point of order.
What is it about?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wanted to welcome the school from Kitui County on behalf of my Chairman, Sen. Musila. Unfortunately, the school is not in the Gallery. So, this is the first time that we are going to acknowledge people who are not here.
Acknowledge for the record and then you can share with them.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, okay. For the record, on behalf of Sen. Musila, my Chairman, I would like to acknowledge the school from Kitui and wish them a fruitful stay at the Senate.
Bw. Speaker, ningependa kukaribisha Kamati ya Energy iliyotoka Kaunti ya Kilifi. Kama unavyojua, Kaunti ya Kilifi ndiko kuna mji wa Malindi. Sina haja ya kusema sana lakini unajua jinsi mambo ya Malindi yalivyokuwa. Kwa hivyo, nina furaha sana kuwakaribisha hapa. Ningependa kuwaambia watakaporudi huko, waendelee kama walivyofanya.
Asante, Bw. Spika, kwa kuwakaribisha wenzangu kutoka huko nyumbani, Kaunti ya Kilifi. Ninafikiri katika matembezi yao hapa, watajifunza mengi kuhusiana na jinsi ambavyo sisi tunaendelea hapa katika Bunge la Seneti na hasa katika Kamati yao ya Energy.
Bw. Spika, ninashukuru sana. Nami pia ninachukua nafasi hii kuwakaribisha ndugu zetu kutoka Kaunti ya Kilifi. Wamekuja kujumuika na Bunge la Seneti ili kusoma yale tunayofanya hapa. La muhimu The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Sen. Wetangula, ninajua unajaribu kuzungumza kile Kiswahili cha Sen. Wangari.
Bw. Spika, langu nikupongeza ndugu na jirani zangu wa Kaunti ya Kilifi. Ninawakaribisha hapa na ninawapongeza kwa kufanya uchaguzi wa maana wa kuunga Serikali mkono na kuchagua kiongozi mliyependa. Ninafikiri mlichagua kiongozi mliyependa. Hata hivyo, kuvurugana sio tabia yetu watu wa Kaunti ya Kilifi au watu wa Pwani. Kwa hivyo, mmechagua Serikali na pia yule tuliyependa. Kilichobaki ni kwamba ninawakaribisha kwa Serikali, muunge Serikali mkono mkirudi nyumbani.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the table of the Senate today, 10th March, 2016:- Report of the Joint Parliamentary Committee on Broadcasting and Library on the Proposed Amendments to the Standing Orders of Parliament to regulate media related activities within the precincts of Parliament.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to give a statement that was requested about one month ago regarding the position of the Government on the status of internally displaced persons (IDPs). This statement was requested by the Senate Minority Leader but a few other Senators asked for supplementary information to accompany the response. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise regarding the Statement that is being issued by the Senate Majority Leader and I am seeking direction because I remember when this issue came to the Floor, we deliberated on it in terms of if it is in the Standing Orders that you can seek a Statement from the Leader of Majority and he took it because the Sessional Committee on Devolved Government had not been constituted. As Standing Order No. 45 (2) reads, you ask from a chairperson of a committee. Is it in order for the Senate Majority Leader to issue this Statement? We are a House of records, will it go on record that it is proper now to get a statement from the Senate Majority Leader? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Hon. Ethuro): Order, Sen. Wangari! I want to appreciate that particular intervention and for your consistency, nobody should take that away from you. But as we said last time, the Senate Majority Leader in this House has always acted as an agent of necessity. So, in that capacity, we assigned him this Statement. It is only fair that we let him proceed with it and he represents the totality of Government in the House.
(Sen. (Prof) Kindiki): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. There was a question regarding the number of Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) who opted not to stay in camps and went to stay with their relatives and what the Government is doing to resettle them. The official number of profiled integrated IDPS as at 31st December, 2008 was 170,416 households. These IDPs opted not to stay in camps and stayed with their relatives and friends. Out of this, 95,000 households have been paid Kshs10,000 each. The remaining 75,118 households are yet to be assisted because of shortage of funds. Through the “Operation Rudi Nyumbani” 74,847 households were successfully persuaded to voluntarily return to their previous farms. All of them were paid a start-up capital of Kshs10,000. Another 37,843 households among them were paid Kshs25,000 to reconstruct their partially damaged houses, while a total of 71,473 low-cost houses were constructed for those whose houses were totally destroyed. Regarding the issue of land resettlement, in total 8,754 IDPs’ households, including 2,593 IDPs from Turkana County and 1,437 forest evictees’ households including 613 host communities, were settled on Government procured land measuring 20,631 acres and 4,741 acres respectively. Each household was provided with 2.25 acres and a low-cost house. The other intervention has been through cash payments. A total of 8,409 households were resettled through cash payments of Kshs400,000 each in cash, in Phase One, in 2013. They included IDPs from Gilgil, Mai Mahiu, 934; Mau Forest evictees, 1,896; Kieni Forest evictees, 805; Teldet Forest evictees, 392; Embobut Forest evictees 2,874; Kipkurere Forest evictees, 1,192 and Mau additional evictees, 316. In addition, the National Consultative Coordination Committee (NCCC) on IDPs repatriated 246 Kenyan IDPs that were living in Uganda as refugees. Each was paid between Kshs100,000 and Kshs150,000, depending on family size. In the second phase of cash payments, there were 5,387 IDPs and forest evictees. Each was paid Kshs200,000 in lieu of land. This included 2,127 Nandi Forest evictees, 425 Konoin Forest evictees, 357 Sambalat landslide victims, 1,077 Mauche Forest evictees and 1,401 IDPs from 26 various camps. A total of Kshs1.077 billion was used in this exercise. In Phase Three of the cash payment, 5,261 IDPs and forest evictees were covered, as shown in the table in Annex 1, which will be tabled together with this Statement. Each of these will get Kshs200,000, as proposed. Regarding the integrated IDPs, there were a total of 170,416 households categorized as integrated IDPs living among the various communities in the country. The integrated IDPs were all to be paid Kshs10,000 as start-up capital. To date, 95,298 The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I wish my colleague and brother had furnished me with a copy of the statement before he read it so that we can interrogate it properly. Be that as it may, if you followed the statement carefully, you will find several things. First, that the Government has not been fair in handling the issues of IDPs. Some IDPs have been paid Kshs200,000, others Kshs400,000, others a paltry Kshs10,000 and others nothing. Even the idea of classifying the IDPs as integrated, so that they do not benefit from Government support is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for being generous to me. This is a very emotive issue.
When I sit here and listen to my brother saying that in 1993---
Order, Senator. There is something called anticipating debate.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, forgive me because I am not going that direction. When Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki read the victims of 1992/1997 violence, he did not mention the Kiliku Report of the National Assembly or Parliament which identified that the highest victims of that time were from Trans Nzoia, Kipkaren, Bungoma and Lugari. He did not mention any one of those areas. This is a selective application that is not good. Mr. Speaker, Sir, finally, Kshs22 billion, that has led to Sen. Khaniri’s request that was said to have been paid to Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs). This House will be interested in knowing who the beneficiaries were and at what quantum.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this issue is of such paramount importance because it is completely bipartisan. It touches on everybody in all the 47 counties. I am happy to hear the Senate Majority Leader singling out Murang’a County which has several pages in Annex No.3 (a) showing how many people were affected and how much they were paid. However, I do not know what somebody who had a farm with his own dairy cows can do with Kshs10,000 as startup capital. To say the least, it is ridiculous. This matter is very important to us. Maybe subject to your guidance, it is not a matter we should be debating off the cuff having listened to what the Senate Majority The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Who sought the statement?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order, Sen. Wetangula! The Deputy Speaker is, in fact, agreeing with your initial proposal. You put me in serious trouble because both of you put the request and then went ahead to interrogate the statement. Therefore, which is which? The Senate Majority Leader, please, speak to the point of deferment.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to assist in the thought being offered by both the Senate Minority Leader and the Deputy Speaker. The issue of IDPs is so critical in this country. It is very emotive. It has been with us for many years. Therefore, I support a situation where we handle this issue comprehensively. If there is one thing that the Senate can help this country heal and move forward, it is to address this issue comprehensively. I am more than happy to even engage the Ministry further. The Cabinet Secretary has been very cooperative, especially with the clarification sought on how much money has been spent in total and who has benefitted and where they come from. However, a comprehensive position of the Government on how to deal with the IDPs from whatever time to eternity is critical so that we deal with this problem once and for all. Therefore, more time is encouraged. I beg to support.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, before you make a ruling on whether to step down this matter in accordance to the request, allow us to raise one or two issues that will enrich the statement. This is obviously a good answer, but it could have been better-- - The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
(Hon. Ethuro); Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! Let us decide on whether we need time to raise those issues or proceed. That is what is before us now.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I support the request that the matter be stood down. However, it will help us if before we interrogate the statement, you will have given us in advance the full list of all the integrated IDPs in the same manner that you have done for Murang’a County. It is also important that you give us the list of the pieces of land which the IDPs left and are now being compensated for. It should also be indicating who the current occupants of the said land are. Leaving this issue unaddressed means that we are allowing somebody to occupy another Kenyan’s property for nothing. We also want that list to inform Kenyans whether the continuous payment of billions upon billions in every financial year is being given to bona fide IDPs or people who had small hawking business at the market places and when hell broke loose, they went to camps and started claiming that they lost their land. That must be documented because we need to know. Finally, we need to insist that a Kenyan IDP is an IDP irrespective of what caused them to be displaced. To focus on IDPs of post-election violence and leave out the IDPs of post-tribal clashes of 1992 and 1997 is not fair. Which other Government do we expect to settle those clash victims? Give us the full set of all IDPs in Kenya so that we settle the matter once and for all.
That was helpful intervention, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am persuaded by comments from the Deputy Speaker and the Senate Minority Leader that we suspend this statement until we have enough information. However, I request that on the issue of shelter and construction of houses, we need to know how many have been occupied and the various stages that they are at; whether they have been completed or not. I say this because in Turkana County, half of those houses have not been completed. The statement might imply that we have secured houses and people have occupied them yet I know that half of those houses have not been completed. So, he should issue a statement to show the various stages; whether you are starting them, how many have been completed and how many have been occupied. That might help.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, while I support the Senator for Murang’a that we stand this matter down until we get an opportunity to look at it comprehensively, this House needs to record the fact that the whole issue of IDPs has been handled poorly and unsatisfactorily. While some IDPs in certain regions have been assisted, others including those from Kisii have so far been totally neglected. The Senate Majority Leader acknowledges that there are up to 75,000 households which have so far not received any support whatsoever. How does the Government expect these people to live and support their families all this period; eight years after the violence erupted? Precisely, when will they receive assistance from the national Government? More importantly, we need to register our dissatisfaction with the manner in which this matter has been handled. This is a House of records. That should go on record even as I support the proposal by the Senator for Murang’a, the Deputy Speaker, to have this matter debated more comprehensively at an appropriate time. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Let us have the last contribution before I dispose the matter. Proceed, Sen. Wamatangi.
i: Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I also support the request by the Senator for Murang’a, our Deputy Speaker, just as a follow up to what the Senator for Kakamega has said, which is good and important. When the decision was made to compensate IDPs with monetary value against what they lost in land, it is also true that all the assets that the IDPs lost was not only land. With your permission, I could just give an example of amongst many, one IDP whom I knew personally. He was a resident and a wholesaler in Kakamega. His name was Mr. Stanley Mungai. He was killed in Kakamega and his five lorries burnt. His wife was evicted and now she lives in a “10x 10” room in Rongai. Although such an IDP lost the land they had, they also lost all their life time investment entirely to the extent that somebody who was a wholesaler now is a peasant and a beggar in Rongai Town. As we address this question, how will we consider the true value of the loss of the IDPs as we talk about resettlement and compensation? It is important for this question to be answered in line with the other questions.
Proceed, Sen. Okong’o. You have one minute.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a time bomb for the nation. All leaders must rise and engage. In Nyamira, there are over 10,000 integrated IDPs who left behind their property. They were given a meagre Kshs10,000. I, therefore, support the proposal by the Deputy Speaker that we stand down this response then we interrogate it extensively. This matter affects the nation of Kenya.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the request by the Deputy Speaker for this matter to be deferred so that it can be addressed in a more comprehensive manner. I was in Sirisia in 1992 with hon. Musikari Kombo, hon. (Dr.) Kituyi and others and we visited an IDP camp that was occasioned by political violence of those days. We have never heard about compensation for those IDPs yet they were many. The focus of compensation for post-election violence victims seems to be almost exclusively focused on the 2007/2008 victims. However, that violence has been in this country for some time. We have many integrated IDPs in Meru but since they did not go to any camp, they have not been considered and compensated. As we go back, let all those other areas where integrated IDPs have not been identified or chronicled be looked at. The Senate Majority Leader has not spoken about it but we had some political violence and 3,000 people from Tharaka-Nithi were displaced during hon. Kalweo’s time.
He is defending the Government!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, time has come for those ones to be compensated. We are calling for the areas which have not been included in Government records, even if it means taking another two or three months, it is important to consider them so that this issue is dealt with once and for all in a just manner.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I listened keenly to the response given by the Senate Majority Leader. I support the direction which has been suggested by The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in Rongai there is portion of land that is very controversial. It was supposedly purchased by the Government to resettle the Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs.) However, only a few people were settled on that land. This issue has been very controversial for the people who have farms around the area, because the IDPs are cultivating other people’s land. How much land did the Government buy, if at all? How many people were supposed to be settled and are currently on that piece of land next to Gicheha Farm in Rongai?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in Kenya’s post-independence history, all human rights bodies are in concurrence that there has never been a massacre or crimes against humanity that were committed blatantly like those in northern Kenya. In fact, it is our only modern-day genocide; the Wagalla and others. This occasioned massive suffering in northern Kenya. In fact, the issue of IDPs in northern Kenya has been there since the time I was in the Kenya National Commission for Human Rights (KNCHR). While I appreciate the personal thought of the Coast region, I also wanted to broaden it so that we include the whole of Kenya rather than be very specific to four or five areas. We need to know what consultations usually take place in the processes of integration. I had to travel to Taita-Taveta because there was belief at that time that some of the IDPs would be settled there and the Taita community was up in arms. Therefore, even in terms of settlement strategies, the Government needs to inform us what broad mechanisms they engage with local stakeholders to ensure that they cool down the embers of ethnicity, because part of these conflicts were created largely due to the ethnic character of our country. Communities need to be reassured that even as people are being resettled, they will not pose any particular ethnic animosity. The counties of northern Kenya have equally been hit very hard and it will be important for us to also determine the status of resettlement of those IDPs. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Order, Senators. I wonder which words to use. How do I step down what has already been stepped up? Every Senator has stood to say: “I wish to support the deferment,” and then goes ahead to contribute. Be that as it may, I order that this Statement comes one week from today, that is, on Thursday. It shall be the only Statement on that day. I have allowed seven days so that the Senate Majority Leader can use the intervening period to look for the additional information that the Senators have sought. What is it, Sen. Kembi-Gitura?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I humbly request that you grant us a little bit more time, say, two weeks. I am lucky in the sense that there are Annexes 3 and 3 (a), which has to do with only Murang’a. I do not know about the other places. I would like to do a little bit of verification from Murang’a office, so that I find out whether it tallies with truth on the ground. Since one week may be too short a time, I kindly request you to grant us even three weeks, if it is possible. One Member even said that a month would be better so that they can look at all these issues. That is my humble request.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, in light of what Sen. Kembi-Gitura has said, this matter is very complex and important for our national cohesion and going forward together as a country. The reason Murang’a was isolated is because the Senator for Murang’a had asked specific questions. The reason West Pokot was not included is because the Senator for West Pokot was not here on that day and so, there was no particular question on West Pokot. We could now address the matter if possible, county by county. My own county, Tharaka-Nithi, has cases of over 3,000 IDPs and I requested my brother to ask about it on my behalf. However, he did not say so and instead, talked as if I am ignorant of the matter. I am a good lawyer and Sen. Wetangula and Sen. Murungi will tell you that no man can be a judge in his own course. Since I was issuing the Statement, I could not have raised the Tharaka-Nithi issue. I plead with you that we give this matter time - three weeks is good time - so that I can get all the information possible. On that day we should set aside all other statements, so that we give it one or two hours and come up with a comprehensive way forward. If after that it will be necessary, we can even ask the Cabinet Secretary and his team to come and engage with the Senate, so that we can have a framework for addressing this issue once and for all.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Listening to the Senate Majority Leader, the Deputy Speaker and all other presenters, am in order to even go further and request that prior to re-issuing this Statement on the Floor of the House an open session, we usually call Kamukunji, or an official session be convened by the relevant Committee inviting all the Senators and Cabinet Secretary? Each one of us can then ask all those questions and then we return the statement to the Floor of the House, considering what the Cabinet Secretary will have said. On the Floor of the House we will then make decisions as to whether it might be necessary to escalate it to the position of having an inquiry across the country. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the reason I did not rise up to ask a supplementary question is because I have a Motion on the same that is listed on the Order Paper. My Motion seeks to establish a select committee to comprehensively look into this issue. In view of the developments now, I seek your guidance. Should we proceed with the Motion first or wait until the statement is dealt with before we can set up the select committee, if the House will so resolve? I need your guidance on that.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, first I want to thank the Senate Majority Leader for the candour that he has displayed in dealing with this matter. More importantly, I thank colleagues for showing tremendous interest in a matter of grave national importance, touching virtually on every county. Mr. Speaker, Sir, my suggestion to the House is that it is unlikely that each one of us will have the opportunity to pick the materials from our respective counties in good time and bring it to the House. If this Motion under Order No. 18 goes through and a select committee is set up - given the opportunity to visit every county - to assess the situation and bring a comprehensive report that will finally address this matter, it will be helpful. I stand guided by the Chair but it is a matter that needs serious in-depth approach and a select committee will be the only choice.
Order Senators. The issue before me is time to interrogate the statement. I directed that it should be done in one week. Sen. Kembi- Gitura petitioned that we need more time and a Special Sitting or a Kamukunji to consider it. We may also need the CSs presence. Sen. Khaniri brought to the attention of the House that there is a proposal for a Select Committee. Now, which one do you want to come first? My directive is that we interrogate the matter before us because by interrogating, we will find a way of disposing the Motion. I am sure if it will be satisfactory, there might be no need for a Select Committee. If we find it otherwise, then a case for a Select Committee will be established. The issue that is in contention is the period that I will allow the Report to be brought to the House. Three weeks seems to be adequate. It is so ordered.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise under Standing Order No. 45 to present the Business of the Senate for the coming week as follows:- On Tuesday, there shall be a Rules and Business Committee (RBC) meeting at noon to schedule the business of the week and will the direct the business that will be on the Order Paper that day. On Wednesday, the Senate is expected to continue with Business that will not be concluded on Tuesday especially the following Bills which are at the Second Reading and at the Committee stage:- 1. The Kenya National Examinations (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No. 7 of 2015). 2. The Office of the County Attorney Bill (Senate Bill No.37 of 2014). 3. The Office of the County Printer Bill (Senate Bill No. 42 of 2014). 4. The Water Bill (National Assembly Bill No.7 of 2014). 5. The Universities (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.31 of 2014). 6. The County Assembly Services Bill (Senate Bill No.27 of 2014). 7. The County Hall of Fame Bill (Senate Bill No.27 of 2014). On Thursday, the Senate will continue with business that will not be concluded on Wednesday especially the Bills. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am raising a matter under Standing Order No. 45 (2) (a). It is a matter on an issue of topical concern and it is touching on a county. We have seen newsflashes that the Government has withdrawn the security detail of the Governor of Mombasa County, one, Ali Hassan Joho. His bodyguards and residential guards have been withdrawn. This does not augur well for the politics of this country. Everybody knows that we just came from a bruising by-election contest in Malindi where Governor Hassan Joho was the team leader of the Coalition for Reforms and Democracy (CORD) troops. In the process, he received several threats from the Coast Regional Commissioner, a Mr. Nelson Marwa.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, coming as it does, immediately after the by-election and with all that we have seen around Governor Hassan Joho, his family business was closed and the police raided his business, I stand here on behalf of CORD fraternity and state as follows:- 1. That we will hold the Government and its security organs liable and responsible if anything happens to Governor Ali Hassan Joho. 2. Secondly, we demand that the provision of security to a governor for his personal safety and security and his residence is not a privilege, it is a right. A governor is the political head of a county. 3. Thirdly, that, the security detail of Governor Joho be restored and reinstated forthwith unconditionally. The dark days when people were punished because of the political positions they took are long gone. We are in a new dispensation. The Government of Jubilee must learn how to be tolerant and appreciative of different shapes of opinions. We do not want to get to a situation where the Government is driving citizens to start thinking of alternative The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Order, Members! I will allow the points of order that you seek. Sen. Wetangula I have confirmed from the Speaker that he allowed you to raise that point of order under Standing Order 45(2)(a) and I have listened to you. However, I want to make one caution even as you raise the point of order. Sen. Wetangula at the beginning said that we have all seen from the newsflashes and newspapers. The Senate and Parliament does not ordinarily rely on newspaper reports. I caution Members to observe the limits. You have nothing to lay on the Table of the Senate because Sen, Wetangula did not. There are a few points of order coming. Is anyone using Sen. Lesuuda’s card? I can see her name on the intervention list, but I cannot see her in the House. Maybe that seat has become so accustomed to her that it reads her name.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank the Senate Minority Leader for bringing this issue. It will be absolutely wrong for this Senate to start debating about Governor Joho’s security when we know very well that the deputy governor for Mombasa’s security was withdrawn and her vehicle taken away, yet we never made it an issue. We want to defend the same governor now. I have a video here. I have given it to Citizen TV and the IEBC observers. A female Member of the County Assembly (MCA) was stripped naked. The police were there, the governor stood there, but did nothing. At the same time, he went ahead and pointed at a police woman in uniform and insulted her. Today, this Senate is saying that we have someone who is very important in this country and we have women who are not important. Not in this political dispensation. He must, first of all, be ashamed to bring such an issue here. Anyway, the Governor has always said that he does not need security. That they are nothing and do not need to be in his county. Why does he want security personnel now and yet he said he does not need them?
Order, Sen. Elachi! Order Members! All of us must show respect for each other. Sen. Elachi, two wrongs do not make a right.
I am not passing judgement. I am not saying that anybody is right or wrong. However, we must always remember that.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am the Senator of Mombasa County. Therefore, the Governor is a constituent of Mombasa County. I take great reservations with what Sen. Elachi has said. However, our security is provided by virtue of our positions. Every Senator, every Governor and every public official of a certain position is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
In the statement made by Sen. Wetangula, he was not seeking any remedy. He was making a statement of fact. Whether or not he can stand with it under Standing Order No.94 is a different thing. Therefore, we are not going to protract this matter too much.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I plead with my younger sister Sen. Elachi to kindly pay attention to Article 96(1) which says:- “The Senate represents the counties and serves to protect the interests of the counties and their Governments.” The head of a county Government is called a governor. Therefore, if according to her it is right to remove the security of the head of a county Government, you should also advance the misguided theory that it would also be right to remove the security of the head of the Government of Kenya. That is how contradictory you are. The Inspector- General (IG) or the deputy IG, whoever is in charge of the former Provincial Administration should know that they are breaching this Constitution, particularly Article 96(1). Secondly, we insist that Governor Joho be given full security, in fact, enhanced security at this rate. Kenyans witnessed a few weeks ago, when the family business was being closed. Maybe Kenyans got confused---
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! I warned you, did I not? Sen. Wetangula talked about security. That is the issue. Kindly stick to the issue.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, what I intended to say in bold is that this is harassment and intimidation. This is coming shortly after a few weeks ago when the same Governor had his own businesses being closed. Kenyans will be forgiven if through propaganda, they thought that that closure was justified. For the information of Kenyans, a CFS means Container Freight Station at the port. There are many such CFSs and its work is to handle loading and offloading ---
You will stick to the statement that Sen. Wetangula gave or I will stop you. It is a very small margin because this is Statement Time and I will not allow you to introduce new issues that were not in the statement that Sen. Wetangula issued under Standing Order No. 45(2)(a).
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will not go further than that. The point that I also wanted to make was that even that closure was illegal and intimidation. Therefore, this intimidation should stop at this stage. If the intention of withdrawing security is to make us in the Opposition submissive, we are not going to be. We will The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale!
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I said I appreciated what the Senate Minority Leader has done. I think it will be very wrong for this Senate to discuss about security when the Deputy Governor of Mombasa County underwent the same with the same Governor. How come we did not make it an issue? She is a governor and in a position that she should be protected. She was intimidated and told that she is a mole campaigning for another party and that is why they did that to her. So, today, the Governor becomes superior to his own deputy governor. They are together. It is one office. That is why I am disputing on this Floor.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Just allow me to react a little bit to what the Government Whip has said. The position is that the deputy governor of Mombasa County is working very well with the governor. We were with her during the campaign, sat with her at a venue and had a meal together with my leader here. What you have been seeing in the media is nothing but a figment of your imagination. She is a lady that I have known for a very long time and had no basis to lie to me. If you recall, whenever national leaders have had their security withdrawn wittingly or unwittingly, something always happens. Sen. Wetangula and I were involved in the trial and inquiries around the murder and disappearance of the late Dr. Robert Ouko. The first thing that happened was that his security was withdrawn. Subsequently, everybody knows what happened. When the late Mr. Tom Mboya was assassinated on the streets of Nairobi, he wittingly or unwittingly did not have his bodyguards. In fact, one of them was left crying around the then New Stanley Hotel. The rest is history.One can go on and on. If you look at the circumstances surrounding the assassination of Mr. J.M. Kariuki, the first thing that disappeared around him was security. So, this is not a light matter. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the second issue why this matter is serious is that it is not just Governor Joho but other Government leaders have been killed, including very senior police officers particularly in the Criminal Investigations Department (CID) and religious leaders. To have a person the calibre of a governor without security for whatever reason is something that the Government should try to look into as quickly as possible. In any case, I believe that that is not happening by accident or coincidence. There is a whole political project around it to try and intimidate Governor Joho. Let me finish by saying that this is something which should be of concern to us. We have lost so many leaders in this country and it is not just those three people that I talked about. Even the very first time that I came to Parliament, we lost Members of Parliament (MPs).That is why when President Kibaki came to power - more than any other President, he had been there for a long time - everybody was opposed to MPs having security, he came out openly and said that, yes, he supports the idea of MPs having their security. As Senators, we are even luckier because we get more security as compared to other MPs in the NationalAssembly. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Whatever the name. I sat next to her in the counting hall. She showed me those videos on her phone about that lady that you are talking about. We had a good conversation about it but I think now to link that to Governor Joho is most unfortunate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Sen. Wetangula came up with a Statement here relating to a very serious matter. When security is withdrawn, we have to take it seriously and address it as such. My leader, Sen. Elachi, has also mentioned a case where the deputy governor is purported to have suffered the same fate. Whether it is true or not, Sen. Wetangula and Sen. Elachi, you better stop what you are doing here. This is a serious matter. If you have that issue, raise it appropriately. I think the Speaker will assist in that because we should not lose track of what we are asking. We want to address what has come up. Indeed, any governor of any political side in this Republic qualifies for protection and indicated here and we need to address this matter. The only place to address it is here. As the Senator of West Pokot, anything touching on my governor, whether we are in agreement politically or not, by law, I am supposed to represent him and that county government. So, I support that we need to address this and raise our concerns that as the Senate, we do not want to believe. The Speaker has put it correctly that whatever we have seen, whether it is true or not, then we need to condemn that behaviour. The Governor did not pick those people from the bush. He was given by the Inspector-General (IG) and that office as such. So, we demand that he and any other person who has suffered the same fate should also be given back his or her security. We do not want to relate it to the just ended politics of Malindi. If it has anything to do with that, then we condemn it. If not, we need to investigate and say that he should be given back his security.
Sen. Elachi, what is your point of order?
On a point of order Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I do not want us to lose my line of thought. There is no way in the institution of the Senate we can come here and say that within a county, where we have a governor and a deputy governor, one can have better privileges over the other. When somebody stands and says it was on the media, even this was directly on the media. So, my bone of contention is that we cannot look at what women are doing and say because it is female gender,--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Order Senator. What is your point of order, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The other side of the House is empty. Are we properly constituted now as we are or we have to send some of us across?
You are completely out of order. The House is properly constituted.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Senate must be fair to both persons. My bone of contention is that you cannot bring one mistake and say the other one was not a mistake, since it was in the media and yet you have just told us that the issue was breaking news in the media. Even the other news was in the media and the Senator for Siaya cannot tell us that we have policemen who have been killed because of issues they have seen. People will also say the bodyguard of Sen. Mbuvi was killed. Was it because of the issues of the Kshs200 million or because of taking other people to the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC)? Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we cannot use that on the Floor of the Senate. It will be wrong. Let us treat both as issues that the Government must look at. If they are returning the bodyguards for Governor Joho, let them also bring back the bodyguards of the deputy governor. Thank you.
Thank you, but like I had noted, coming from your own contribution Sen. Elachi, it looks like there is an admission on your part that the guards were removed from both the governor and his deputy. That is I was saying that we cannot have an argument which makes it appear like two wrongs make a right because they do not. At least, that is not, in my view. I think that is the end of that matter and we must move on to the next order. There were two Statements that have not been dealt with. What is it Sen. Mositet? You had not sought the Floor?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I had indicated that I wanted to---
You had not sought the Floor. Your name has just come on now and then went out.
No, it was there.
Well, I am the one in control of this screen, you can say that you had pressed the button and it was not showing here. What can I do for you?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wanted to also contribute on the same.
Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have listened to both the Senate Majority Whip and also from the Senate Minority Leader, and I think leaders need to sober up and cool their tempers. Just as you had advised, two wrongs cannot make a right. I think whatever Sen. Elachi is trying to prove, maybe to the other side, does not The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Thank you. The only other statement I can see is the one for Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo and the Chairman of the Committee, Sen. Karaba is here. Where does Sen. (Prof.) Lesan come in?
On Statement (c) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
That is Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo’s. Sen. (Prof.) Lesan are you ready?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Then you can issue Statement (c). ALLOWANCES AND FACILITIES PROVIDED TO NOMINATED MCAS
Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I wish to issue a Statement requested by my colleague; Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo. This was a request for a Statement on the allowances and the facilities provided for the nominated Members of the County Assemblies (MCAs). I have a letter from the Secretary, Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SRC). Pursuant to its mandate under Article 230 of the Constitution 2010, the Commission advised on the remuneration and benefits of MCAs following a job evaluation and a copy of a circular attached. In sending mileage for nominated MCAs, the Commission limited their mileage allowances to Kshs39, 528 per month. This decision was informed by the fact that nominated MCAs represent a defined populace like minorities and special interest groups whose geographical representation is not defined unlike that of elected MCAs whose areas of representation is distinct. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the purpose of of this letter is to convey the Commission’s clarifications on your request. Attached to this answer is a circular that was issued on 27th November, 2013 to all county governors and it is about the review, remuneration and benefits for MCAs. I do not know whether I should read the whole of this circular but I think I can just mention with your permission that this circular indicates the various benefits The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am satisfied with the response from my able colleague. I want to congratulate him because this was his first assignment and duty as the new Chair. However, my further request is that the Clerk or the responsible office should send this circular to every county assembly. You will be surprised that even in your own county, nominated MCAs do not qualify for mileage, yet it is indicated here. In West Pokot County none of them gets their dully accepted rate of Kshs39,528 per month. My request is that they should get this money, backdated to the date when they started duty. I also wonder why the speakers and clerks disregard circulars that are even copied to high offices in Kenya, including the Principal Secretary, National Treasury, Mr. Kamau Thugge; the Controller of Budget, Mrs. Agnes Odhiambo and Auditor-General, Mr. Edward Ouko.
What are you asking me to do? Are you satisfied with the answer?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am satisfied with the answer, but asking for your directive.
The circular is copied to all speakers of the county assemblies and all county clerks. Do you want to burden the Clerk here by doing the same job?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want you to give a directive and write to them that we have the document that they have ignored. Article 96 of the Constitution states that we represent the interests of the people. We have noted that there is some discrimination in some counties where some members are denied their opportunities to benefit from their positions.
Do you have the document with you? Can you see that it is copied to all the people that you want it be copied to? It is copied to the speakers of the county assemblies and all county clerks. What you need to do is to confirm with the assembly - through which you raised the issue - that they have received their copy. When we were studying law, we were taught that the law assists the vigilant. This thing has a monetary value to it. If any clerk sits on the rights of his members then how do you assist the vigilant? The point I am making is that copies are in all the 47 county assemblies.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. According to what I have heard from the Chairman of Committee on Devolved Government - whom I The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, do you have the authority to make that commitment?
No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to point out that this circular was born of a complaint that was made earlier on when the county assemblies were set up. A job evaluation was done and a circular to address the same issue was released on 27th November, 2013. In fact, this circular states clearly that it will be effective on a date which they have indicated, that is, 1st December, 2013. This directive has been there for a fairly long time and it addressed an issue that was raised earlier on.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we represent the people and some officers have disobeyed orders. This issue has found its way to the Floor of the House and we have been told that there is a circular. What decree can we give having discovered that this is true? I thought that the Committee could give a decree to force them to read the circular or summon them to come here. Particularly, the speaker and clerk of West Pokot should be summoned here and we read to them this circular. It looks like they do not know how to read and write or they close their eyes when it comes to reading some of these documents.
We have an answer. Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, the circular is dated 27th November, 2013. It is a public document and that is the point I was trying to make. Now that everybody knows - everybody is assumed or presumed to know the law - it is now up to the affected MCAs to follow up. If they need the assistance of the relevant Committee of the Senate, they will make a specific request to the Committee. The Committee will then follow-up with the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) and determine how to go on with the matter. It is not in the place of the Senate to order. A Statement has been issued and it is up to the affected parties to follow it up. It is good that the information has come out because it will help many nominated MCAs who have not benefited from their mileage claims. The Senate cannot decree and make an order to that effect, when there is no Motion before it. At least a statement has been delivered and tabled. We can only deliberate on it for what it is worth. If you want to bring a Motion, it has to be specific to those assemblies that have not complied with the circular of 27th November, 2013.
Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, unless you want to argue, I am sure you know that what I am saying is the correct position in terms of procedure. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Now that we have discovered this is the true position, procedurally, what is the next step? I expect that the Chair will formally write to every Senator indicating that this document exists and they can liaise with their respective counties to confirm whether they got it. That is what I expected to hear from you.
The point I made to you was that the circular is copied to everybody that matters. It is copied to Mr. Kinuthia Wamwangi, the Chairman of Transitional Authority (TA) all speakers of the county assemblies and all county clerks. It is not that they did not know unless they want to say that they did not receive the circular. It is not a question of them having not known that the circular existed, but a question of either not having followed it up or their relevant assemblies defying the circular and not paying. I am sure you know that in as much as you have this committee in the Senate, there is a relevant committee in the county assemblies that should enforce an issue like this one. It is like when the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC) does not pay us allowances when we attend meetings or even our mileage claims. How will you do it? I believe it is the same manner that county assemblies can enforce their legal rights to mileage claims.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. If you followed the discussion seriously, you find that there is a mislink somewhere between the Council of Governors (CoG), the Ministry of Devolution and Planning and the Chairman of the Committee in the Senate. There is something wrong because the Chairman here should have told us that the information he has, has already been relayed to the county governments. We do not know whether these people have been paid. If they have not been paid and the circular backdates to 2013, surely, what went wrong between 2013 and today? There must have been something sinister. That is what my friend, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, is trying to attest. We ask the Chairman to come out clear on this and tell us what might have gone wrong. If something went wrong, who is to blame because this is the year of laying blames to others, especially, when it comes to scandals?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the circular which has been issued here is self-explanatory, especially, the footnotes which have been given. Unless West Pokot County is different from all the other counties, the question that was asked by my colleague Senator here applies to West Pokot only because we have not received any other similar complaint. The third footnote on the circular says:- “The funding of the reviewed remuneration to be accommodated with the County Budgetary Provision of 2013/2014 Financial Year---
What are you reading?
I am reading the circular.
The very last page. It states exactly when this should be implemented. There are four bullets there, but I am reading the third bullet. It states exactly when this should have been done and I believe it has been done.
Is that on page three? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Yes. There are four bullets there, but I am reading the third one.
It says: “The review shall be implemented as follows;” Is that where you are reading?
Yes. They have given four factors there. The third factor is very relevant as whether this has been implemented or not. If the county did the County Budgetary Provision; if they did their budget for 2013 and it is stated here very clearly that this is where funding will come from, then I am sure every county has this circular and has done that.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. One point that comes out clearly here, using the case of my county, is that there are some officers in authority who ignore every law given to them to the extent that some of the things that are supposed to have been done under a certain law have been ignored. It is a point that has come out clearly. I do not know how many such circulars from the national Government touch on the activity and the life of Kenyans in the law structures have been ignored. So, it is a point that I find very heavy because I do not know how many others fall in the same category.
Very well. You have done your job well. The answer is satisfactory in the sense that it sets out the circular. The failing in the relevant county assembly can only be visited upon that specific county assembly for its failure to follow-up what is clearly set out in the law. Maybe you may wish to follow it up at that level. Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, do you have another statement to issue or is that all?
Sen. Karaba is not here. Therefore, call out the next Order.
Sen. Karaba is here.
Sen. Karaba, are you ready to give the statement?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. SHORTAGE OF TEACHERS IN WEST POKOT COUNTY
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo wanted to know whether the Teachers Service Commission (TSC) is aware that schools in West Pokot County have a shortage of 2,023 teachers in primary schools, which translates to a shortage of 46 per cent of the required number and 532 teachers in secondary schools, translating to a shortage of 48 per cent of the required number. The answer is as follows:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank my colleague, Sen. Karaba, the Chairperson of the Committee on Education. From his figures, there is a confession by the TSC and by extension the national Government, that there is a staggering shortage of 87,000 teachers in the whole Republic. Out of which, 39,000 are in the primary section while 47,000 in the post-primary institutions. In fact, there is an acute shortage of teachers in secondary schools because we have few secondary schools than primary schools in Kenya. The TSC needs to tell us the truth. According to these figures, there is a good staffing level for the primary schools. Is this staffing evenly deployed throughout the country? Secondly, the figures that the Chairperson has given as data on West Pokot County has revealed a lot. He said that as at March, there was a shortage of 1,654 teachers in primary schools and 523 in post-primary schools. That is not the true position. The TSC does not update their data. No wonder they do not know how many teachers they need to employ. The Director of TSC in West Pokot County, Mr. Lesewa, has this information. Primary schools teachers on duty are 2,961--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Order, Sen.(Prof.) Lonyangapuo! Where are you getting the figures? Is it on Google ?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have the data on my fingertips.
That is contentious. Do you have something to table? If you are relying on your data as you say---
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I gave you the information that the TSC is ignoring. The real shortage is 2,961 teachers and not 1,600. Can I proceed?
You can proceed, but do not rely on data which we do not have?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you have it---
Order, Sen.(Prof.) Lonyangapuo! You can argue your case as you are doing now, but do not refer me or Sen. Karaba to data that he does not have. He has read data from the TSC.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my question was very clear. I wrote that there is a shortage of 2,230. However, the Chairperson has given me response with a very low figure to what I asked. That clearly shows that the data at the TSC is not updated. No wonder I am complaining that we have a shortage of teachers.
What is your point of order, Sen. Sang?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Am I in order to ask Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo to give us the source of the information that he reading from? The TSC which is the official body has given the figures, but he keeps on quoting some figures that we have no idea of their source. What is the source of the information that he is sharing with us?
I am not asking Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo not to refer to his figures. He can say that he does not agree with Sen. Karaba, but if he has figures that he wants to table on the Table of the Senate, he can do so. However, if he is relying on his phone of which I have no control over, it is very difficult for me to deal with that situation.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my question was very clear. I am a teacher by profession. There is a TSC office in my county that gave me the right data. However, at the national level, the TSC has different data. That may also be reflected in your various counties. The fact that I have discovered there are some discrepancies of these figures from county level and the national level, could assist the TSC to come up with the right figures. As a result, there is a gap because the two files are not tallying. Secondly, the TSC has talked about the medium term plan of term two 2013-2017 where there will be an additional 5,000 teachers. There is contention because the plan says that we should have sufficient teachers so that every child of Kenya is taught. We need a better figure than the 5,000 that we have been given to address the shortage of teachers in this county. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Order, Sen.(Prof.) Lonyangapuo! You were seeking a clarification.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my clarification is that there are schools with many teachers while others are understaffed in this county. For example, Chewoiyet High School has 1,400 students against 38 teachers while Alliance Girls has 1,400 students with 84 teachers employed by the TSC. My argument is that we can balance the existing number of teachers even as we continue to sort out the issue of shortage. I know that is not an issue of West Pokot alone, it could be reflected in other counties.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, to add to what Sen.(Prof.) Lonyangapuo has said, it is not only in West Pokot County that there is shortage of teachers. We have several people in this county who have trained as teachers, but have no jobs. However, if you go to TSC to seek clarification on whether they can be employed, you meet problems on that end. As the Chairperson is answering these clarifications, he should tell us whether it is possible to include trained teachers who have registered with them but are not employed. Do they have that data? Could they be taken to counties like West Pokot and others that have shortage of teachers?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the challenge of shortage of teachers in schools is nationwide. However, what is more problematic is a situation as has been raised by Sen.(Prof.) Lonyangapuo where you have one school or schools in particular regions which are overstaffed while others schools in other parts of this country are greatly understaffed. What is the Government doing to ensure that they narrow down the gap to ensure that there is equity? If a school has 1,400 students with an average number of 50 teachers, that should be reflected across the country. What is the Ministry doing in terms of addressing this disparity? Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, part of the shortage of teachers as indicated by the Chairperson in his response is the expansion and opening up of new schools. What is the Governments’ policy with regard to opening up of new schools? You will find that, in one school, in a class there are 40 students and in another one, a class has 12 or 13 students. What is the Government’s position with regard to opening of new schools? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first of all, regarding the case in West Pokot, in my statement, I said that the shortage is not only in West Pokot, it is in the entire country. It stands at 87,000 teachers. The problem is shortage. The key word is “shortage.” So, if the shortage were to be generalized, it would affect West Pokot, Murang’a and everywhere else because we do not have enough teachers. Concerning the disparity in figures, it could be as a result of different matrix systems and the time when they are received at the TSC. If professor has a different figure from what I have, I am sure what I have should be upheld as true because I am reading a statement form the TSC. So, anything else can be included or excluded as time goes by. On the issue of shortage of secondary schools, Sen. Sang has answered Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo. When new secondary schools are opened, information between the county offices and the TSC might take some time. So, at the county level, there are some new schools and that information has not been relayed to the TSC because it has to go through the Ministry of Education in Jogoo House. In that case, you may find that there is a disparity between the number of teachers who are to be posted to post-primary institutions and the figures that we might have in the county offices. However, we are asking the County Director of Education, the TSC and the Ministry of Education to make sure that new schools - and this is what is happening today - they have already regularized the registration of schools such that if a school is opened in a county, that information is relayed to the TSC immediately. It is not like before where some secondary schools were opened through the Ministry of Education and it took too long for TSC to note. That has already been rectified. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, concerning the 5,000 additional teachers, this is the policy. The other day, my Committee had asked the Cabinet Secretary for Education to state whether that figure is enough. He stated that, that was the figure the Government would provide. It is on the lower side, but it is according to the Medium Term Plan II. That is the system. So, in this case, we had requested more than 20,000 teachers to be employed, but the Cabinet Secretary stated that 5,000 were to be recruited. The other thing is about rationalization. It is true that there is a big problem in some schools. They even continued adding classes. Some schools are registered to have two streams, but within short time they increase them to three, four or five streams. That is due to more students joining the schools. In such a situation, head teachers have to inform the TSC immediately that they have new streams, which takes time. So, by the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
That brings us to the end.
Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, do you want to reopen the issue? This cannot go on forever.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Chairperson has said that there is a shortage of 87,000 teachers in the whole nation; of which 39,000 concerns secondary schools. In order to understand the scenario I am referring to, he should kindly pick a county in the Nyanza region, give us the total number of teachers for the primary and secondary schools; take another one in western region; about four or five in total; then you will understand my worry when you convert the figures to percentage. Then, this House may appreciate what I am referring to. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will appreciate that for the first time, people who have never gone to school are discovering it is time to do so. Other Kenyans will not understand that these fellows have been fighting and stealing cows. Even grown-ups as old as I am are now deciding to go to school. So, the Ministry has understood and waived the policy for the sake of opening a class for those ones. Therefore, I request the Chairperson to give us the data for comparison, as a supplementary.
Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, the trouble with your final intervention is that your request for the statement was very specific. In fact, it was precise. In the first one, you asked whether they are aware that there is a shortage and the exact figures. I noticed that you disputed them. If you want the Ministry to give you the whole data - I heard you mention Nyanza and other counties - it will be a completely new statement that you will be seeking. That is why I said that it cannot go ad infinitum. This must come to an end at some point. If you want to have a nationwide situation, you will have to be specific and seek a statement specific to that. Otherwise, it will go on forever. That is my direction in the circumstances. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I beg to move that the County Statutory Instruments Bill (Senate Bill No. 10 of 2015) be read a Second Time. This is a Committee Bill drafted by the Sessional Committee on Delegated Legislation. I am happy that two Members of the Committee, namely, Sen. Gwendo and Sen. Karaba are present. The Bill makes provision for the procedure of the consideration of statutory instruments by the county assemblies. At the national level, there is an Act of Parliament that guides and provides the procedure for consideration of statutory instruments. The Act was enacted about four years ago. The counties are developing legislations which must be supported by subsidiary legislations or otherwise regulations. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, currently, the county assemblies are applying the provisions of The Statutory Instruments Act with modifications. Therefore, it is important to enact this legislation. The Sessional Committee had deliberations with the county assembly counterparts. In the last two sessions, over 20 counterparts were invited. The Committee also visited 16 county assemblies. Our responsibilities include mentoring them and that is why the Committee reached out to them in order to enhance their capacities. Some of the common mistakes in the counties are the confusions with regard to the mandate of the Committee on Delegated Legislation and the Committee on Legal Affairs and Foreign Relations. Almost all the Members of the county assemblies in Kenya are not lawyers. Therefore, the technical matters are complex and, therefore, they The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I stand to second the Bill. First, I want to thank my Chairman of the Committee on Delegated Legislation for coming up with this idea. This is an idea that we mooted as a Committee as a whole. We agreed that it is necessary that we come up with a Bill and, at long last, we have now seen the Bill on the Floor of this Senate. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a Bill which will guide of all policies, announcements and regulations from the counties. What we have heard from the Chairman is true that going by what we have seen in the field and what we hear from the Commission on Implementation Committee (CIC) when they come to us and even to an extent of them coming to meet us here in the assembly, tells you that there is a lot of misinformation flowing to the county government. This misinformation is not to the thought of these committee Members. It is just because according to what the Chairman has said, this is a very technical Committee in the sense that it stipulates what kind of subsidiary legislation is to be applied, what kind of statutes to be involved when drafting some opinion issues and it is a technicality for that matter. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when this comes out as a Bill, we feel that Members will be making it as a referral point that they will be able to read and they will be guided by the contents of the same. This will be seen like something which will guide, not only the Members of the assembly, but even the governors. You also noted that when it comes to who the executive in the county assemblies is there are many Members who might not The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
.: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first, the Mover of this Bill, Sen. Sang, hardly surprises me because he is very hardworking. This is an important Bill in terms of the work of county governments. This Senate has come up with innovative Bills to strengthen the work of county governments. Unfortunately, only two amendment Bills have been signed into law. As I make my contribution, I hope this will not end up in the litany of Bills which Senators have put in so much work, yet somebody somewhere down the line does not wish to concur, thinks it is not important and ignores it. As a result, perpetuates the notion that the Senate of this Republic is not important. For the avoidance of doubt, Article 185 of Constitution is very clear on the work of the county assemblies. If we have to preach this gospel to the county assemblies of Kenya, we must continue to do so every day we sit here. I have seen disputes in counties about the Ward Development Fund. I have not seen disputes in counties about Bills because there is a confusion perpetuated by the old mentality of the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) that all leaders are elected to build roads, put up sanitary facilities or any other infrastructural development. We must continue to state into the next general elections that the work of county assemblies is primarily to legislate. For the record, Article 185 is clear that the legislative authority of a county is vested in and exercised by its county assembly. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Was it Kakamega or Bungoma?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it was Bungoma. Then, as we go back to our counties, we will arm the public with these Bills and tell them, “elect the person who understands what the County Statutory Instruments Bill is.” Otherwise, you will elect people who will not understand paragraph one, two, the end of this or the memorandum on objects. Therefore, the effort of this Senate would be lost. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I support this Bill and the efforts made by Sen. Sang in ensuring that we have crossed the dotted eyes and ensure that, come 2017/2018 all ducks in terms of law would be in a row.
Thank you, Senator. Proceed, Sen. Gwendo.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first, I congratulate my Chairman for taking the effort to bring this Bill after the experience we went through as Members of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support this Bill and I join my colleagues in congratulating Sen. Sang and the entire membership of the Committee on Delegated Legislation for coming up with this brilliant Bill to assist in the procedure of enactment of subsidiary legislations. There are many things that are happening in the county assemblies. The level of education of some of the MCAs is so low that they do not understand the process of legislation. Some did not go to school, but because they are village politicians with an art The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes
Order, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, you will have 12 minutes to finalize your contribution when debate on this Bill resumes.
Hon. Senators, it is time to interrupt the Business of the Senate. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until Tuesday, 15th March, 2016 at 2.30p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes