Hon. Senators, as you are aware, the Annual Devolution Conference is an event which brings together all implementers of devolved governance including representatives from both levels of Government, independent commissions, academia, policy practitioners, civil society and the media. The Conference presents an opportunity for the participants to celebrate the gains that have been made in devolution, to deliberate on how to optimize on the emerging opportunities presented by devolution and to identify challenges that can be addressed collaboratively amongst stakeholders for the welfare of our country. The inaugural Devolution Conference was held in Kwale County in April, 2014 and the second was held in Kisumu County in April, 2015. The Third Annual Devolution Conference is now set to be hosted in Meru County from 19th to 23rd April, 2016 at the Meru Technical Training Institute. Hon. Senators, the overall theme of this year’s Devolution Conference is
while the guiding theme is: “The Promise of Devolution:Consolidating the Gains After Transition and Looking into the Future.” A total of ten sub-themes have been selected to guide deliberations over the three- day period. These themes are as follows:- (1) Strengthening county governments, competence and capacity for sustainability of devolution; (2) Civic education and its role in effective public participation; (3) ICT as an enabler for economic growth and development; (4) Localization of Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs); (5) Regional cooperation for sustained economic development; (6) Conflict management and mitigation; The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Thank you for that Communication. However, as we look forward to the Third Devolution Conference, we must reflect on how the previous conference in Kisumu was managed. Many of us closed our offices to go to Kisumu for the Conference and we found that the Senate had absolutely no role in the Conference. As a matter of fact, the Senate looked like a nuisance hovering around the Conference. When we went there, our colleague, the host Senator was not even acknowledged at the official opening. It turned out to be an event between governors and the Executive. Article 96 is very clear on how we are an important pillar to devolution and in the protection of devolved units, their governments and their people. In preparation for this Conference, we want your office, representing the importance and dignity of the Senate, to be involved and to have a Kamukunji prior to the Conference so that we are told when we go there what, for example, the role of my brother the Senate Majority Leader, the various committee chairpersons and that of Senators will be. Madam Temporary Speaker, from the word go we can see that Senators are being asked that those who are interested in attending the Conference can enroll at the Clerk’s office. That determines already that our role is peripheral. It is important that we be told clearly what we are going to do at this Conference.
Madam Temporary Speaker, Sir, we are all aware about the Devolution Conferences that have taken place in the past in Kwale and Kisumu counties. The experience that the Senate has is as has been mentioned by the Senate Minority Leader. It was unpleasant. As the new Chairperson of the Committee on Devolved Government, we are getting engaged in the preparation of the current Conference. In fact, Sen. (Dr.) Zani and myself have been nominated by the Speaker to sit in the steering committee, which will be meeting tomorrow in Meru, to plan for the participation of Members, including Members of the Senate. In fact, from the tentative programme which I have seen, quite a number of Senators have a role to play in this Conference in that there will be topical issues. The issues which are very relevant to Senators are included in the programme. It will be fair and appropriate that we, as Senators, participate in this Conference because the role we will play will be more significant than it has ever been in the last two Conferences. As a Member of the steering Committee, I want to urge my colleagues that we The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, I want to thank my brother, the Leader of the Minority for raising this point of order. I also thank you for the Communication. I am of the opinion that time has come for this House to stamp its authority. This Conference, for the last two or so years, has pretended to be a celebration of governors. This is a celebration of devolution. It is not a celebration of governors or county governments. We are demanding an equivocal commitment from the organizers that there is a role for this House and its leadership. That commitment must be in writing. It is not enough to invite governors---
Hon. Senators, consult quietly.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Indeed, Madam Temporary Speaker, this is very important. All of us should make it very clear that what has failed us in the past is lack of a firm and united position when the Senate is intimidated as it has been done in this scenario. I saw last year my brother, Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o, looking like a stranger in Kisumu County.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Some busy bodies were trying to market themselves because nobody knows them other than in the village where they roam. I want to go on record that I will be urging my colleagues to give this Conference a wide berth until and unless there is a written commitment from the leadership of the Council of Governors (CoG) that recognizes the role, place and prestige of the Senate, not just the leadership, but the entire membership of this House. Otherwise, we are just auctioning our dignity to people who are very quick to support us when we are arguing their case but eternally they are demeaning us and marauding the country trying to show how useless this House is. Finally, I would like to ask the Chair to assure us that there will be no formal Communication on our position on this matter until and unless that commitment and clarity has been provided.
Thank you, Majority Leader. Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I want to thank the Leader of the Minority abundantly for this point of order and for you allowing him, I want to use this opportunity to send Sen. (Prof.) Lesan to Meru where they seem to be going to decide on how the conference will be arranged. Please go and remind them that the two previous conferences have been funded by taxpayers’ money. I am disappointed by how a decision was made on how the conference will be carried out. You are going all the way to Meru Hotel to go and burn the taxpayers money, but we will forgive you. We will The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, let us listen to Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.
Thank you. I have followed sections of that symposium and I could see the Cabinet Secretary for Roads, for example, bragging about one of the flagship projects of Vision 2030 of constructing a decker road. That they have certainly found a spark of thought and they are going to do decker road from the airport to Rironi. May I clarify, for the sake of history of this country, that when Parliament approved this project, we never talked about Rironi. It was from Machakos Junction to Westlands. Some people in this country seem to be on a spree of taking superhighways to certain villages and leaving out the villages of Kakamega, Bungoma, Wajir, Mandera and so on. What is so special about the villages of--- We are the House of equity and we must tell the President to steer the Republic of Kenya. He is now steering a region of Kenya. He is breaching the Constitution of Kenya. One day, we will pass a vote of no confidence in him.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I was one of the committee members in the last conference. As the Chair of the Committee on Devolved Government then and Sen. Kerrow Billow, the Chairman of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget, we were lied to that we could have a situation where the programme is going to accommodate Senators and all actors in matters of devolution. While in Kisumu, I suspected that it was not going to go that way because having interacted with the governors, I know their ego is bigger than this country. I realised that the conference was about massaging the ego of governors and lying to each other. The conference lacked a clear objective. They knew that if you give a person like Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale a chance, in his lucid moment, he is likely to say things that governors may not be so happy to the extent that---
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Did you hear the distinguished Senator for Elgeyo-Marakwet calling Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, in fact, a lunatic? It is only a lunatic who can enjoy a lucid moment and this is a serious improper motive. He said “Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale in his lucid moment”. Only a deranged person gets a lucid moment once in a while. Is that proper? Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is a distinguished, respected and admired Member of this The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Hon. Senator, I heard you very well and I think this is a House where we must maintain use of parliamentary language. Therefore, before you proceed, you must apologize and withdraw. Sen. Murkomen, please apologize and withdraw before you proceed.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I did not say that the Senator of Kakamega is insane. It is only the Minority Leader who has said so. What I said is that when Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is in a lucid moment---
What exactly does that mean?
Let me complete and explain. I did not use the world lucid in the sense of Banks versus Goodfellow, which the Minority Leader is talking about.
Order, Sen. Murkomen. You will have to withdraw and apologize. By implication, the use of that word implies that the person who is in that state is somebody who is mentally deranged. So, apologize, withdraw and proceed. It is as simple as that. Let me give Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, the opportunity because he has been mentioned adversely.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I look at the distinguished Senator for Elgeyo-Marakwet and I really sympathize with him because; consistent with people who have never proved themselves in politics, when they reach a particular stage in their political life, they become bloated in attitude, bloated in the sense of “I am who, I am not”. May I confirm to the young Senator that I, Dr. Khalwale, I am a doctor of medicine. That means that at every level from nursery school up to the medical school, I did not only pass exams but I did so with distinction. If you think that you can hide in the English language, please go and google Dr. Boni Khalwale, 1978. I achieved Distinction 1 in English. I know English and I speak it very well, maybe, better than you. Madam Temporary Speaker, because the young man has chosen to insult me, I want to tell you, young man, that when we came here---
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, please make your point.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I cannot be insulted and then the same young man who does that thinks that he can control my airtime. I will only be controlled by the Chair. Madam Temporary Speaker, may I inform you that where you are today, we were there 17 years ago. We have been leaders not just in this House---
Order, Senators. He is on a point order. Allow him to conclude then you proceed. Conclude your contribution, Senator.
We have not only proved ourselves as leaders, not just in The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Did you hear Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale saying that he is intending to fight me physically?
Order, Senators! Please take your seat. I beseech you to allow sanity to reign. Let us have some decorum in the Senate. That is actually enough intervention on that. Sen. Murkomen, I will simply ask you to apologize, withdraw and proceed. Let us allow sanity to reign in the Senate.
Madam Temporary Speaker, it cannot be that when I am insulted, I am the only one going to apologize. Let us start by putting facts where they belong. In law, what makes people to have lucid moments---
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Leaders in this House need to demonstrate respect. The Chair has made a ruling that Sen. Murkomen should apologize and withdraw the remarks he made. That is the ruling of the Chair, we cannot go beyond that. The position now is that the Senator should apologize and withdraw the remarks, if not, the necessary steps must be taken. The orderlies are ready and they must be dutiful.
He should not continue with his contribution from that point.
You have made your point, Senator. Sen. Kerrow, you have one intervention. There is somebody on a point of order.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. My concern is the definition of lucid moments in English. We are not in a court of law. English is very simple. It does not contain all those stories we have been told. I want you not to accept some legalistic definitions used in courts. The issue about lucid is somebody who is unintelligible or who is--- I do not quite understand when somebody says it is an insult. It is not an insult. In a situation where both of them have exchanged words; because what the Senator has told Sen. Murkomen is far worse that what you are asking him to withdraw.
In order of precedence, we would still follow up on anybody else who made any parliamentary remarks. To allow sanity to reign, sometimes, it is important to have the humility to apologize, withdraw and we proceed.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I want first to know that you are telling me to apologize for using an English word, which means in the dictionary - I want this to go on record so that, in future, we will be apologizing for using correct English The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Can we have a dictionary for quick reference?
Madam Temporary Speaker, if the Senate Minority Leader understands it in the legal sense then it is the definition achieved in Banks versesGoodfellow, that is a different thing all together. In English words---
Hon. Senator, you can only refer to somebody in a word that they are comfortable with. Even if it is a positive term that is not comfortable with the Hon. Senator and he demands an apology, why would you not just apologize and withdraw?
Madam Temporary Speaker, we only apologize for unparliamentary language. If the word “lucid” has become unparliamentary then you declare so and I will apologize.
Madam Temporary Speaker, you have made a ruling. What is happening right now is that your ruling is being undermined. You have to assert the authority of the Chair. This is because whenever you are held to be in contempt by anybody who is excising legitimate authority, that contempt must be purged before you can proceed to try and rationalize what the Senator is trying to say. In any case, if the Senator had used the word “lucid” only, it would be understandable. However, he has used it conjunctively with the word “moment.” This is something else. When he is referring to the dictionary, he is just looking at the meaning of the word “lucid.” However, the moment he uses the two words conjunctively, it cannot suggest anything other than that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale normally has moments where he is not lucid and others where he is lucid. Therefore, you should assert the authority of the Chair and let the Senator apologize; then we can deal with any other matter.
Hon. Senators, I will not express myself again on that matter. The manner in which you used the word is what gives that implication that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale suffers from mental derailment at times. I have already ruled that you should apologize and withdraw before you proceed. Had you used the word correctly, it would have been positive. However, if my memory serves me right, you used the word ‘illucid’ which is not even an English word. The word “lucid” is a positive in this context. However, the way you used it, it was not positive. Do you want us to have the benefit of going back to the HANSARD? Meanwhile, I would like you to apologize, withdraw and proceed.
Madam Temporary Speaker, to the extent that I have been misunderstood, I apologize and withdraw.
Sen. Wako has a point of order.
Madam Temporary Speaker, Sen. Murkomen is out of order in what he says, particularly if you take into account that the definition of “lucid moment” in the Oxford Dictionary means “during a period of illness or confusion.” That means that when he says “a lucid moment”, he is actually saying that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is in a period of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Madam Temporary Speaker, it looks terrible because I can read here that the meaning of lucid moments is fluctuating awareness and dementia, coping with emotional moments. In fact, it sounds worse than the way it was said. If he is a gentle man, he should just apologize so we can move forward.
Sen. Murkomen, kindly apologize and withdraw.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I have said that to the extent that I have been misunderstood, I withdraw and apologize. I am hoping that what follows is that the same Senator will apologize for the unprintable insults that he directed to my direction.
Madam Temporary Speaker, it is unfortunate that we are getting this far. When the Chair asks a Member to withdraw and apologize, it should be unconditional. He cannot say that "to the extent that he has been misunderstood" which actually adds insult to injury; that we are incapable of understanding and that is why he is apologizing. If you are as widely read as some of us, you will find the writings of V.I. Lenin when he was telling the Russians to be eternally vigilant. He said that even when a madman speaks, listen to him; it may be his lucid moment. Therefore, he is saying that a person who enjoys lucidity is a mad man. Sen. Murkomen, given the rank that has been bestowed upon by your side recently, I hope that your level of responsibility and dignity will also rise. At every time, when the Chair tells you to withdraw and apologise, you set an example to the flock that you lead. That is what we do this side. Simply withdraw and apologise.
Order! Sen. Murkomen, I allowed that intervention because it is according to the rules. Please withdraw and proceed.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I cannot apologise three times. I have done it twice.
Order, Sen. Murkomen! Instead of proceeding, you keep interjecting and giving people an opportunity to still contribute more. Proceed and I apologise or I will have you withdraw from this House.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I hope that at a particular time, you will also ask the Senators who have insulted me to apologise.
I have not heard any insults directed to you.
Madam Temporary Speaker, what do you mean?
make reference to that particular insult.
Madam Temporary Speaker, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has insulted The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Hon. Senators, this House will not be turned into a market place. If you feel that you have been insulted, you have the Floor and your microphone. Could you be specific and accurate and tell us the words that he used to insult you. You cannot stand in your place and keep pointing at Hon. Senators insisting that they insulted you. This is a House of reason. You have to follow the procedure that was followed by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. He made reference to a particular word that you used. You have the Floor. Why can you not take use that opportunity in your contribution to pinpoint to the particular word that he used in insulting you, then, the Chair will act appropriately. However, we cannot turn this House into a market scenario where everybody points to the other person yet we are live on television. You have the Floor; make your contributions or sentiments.
Order, Senators! Can we listen to Sen. Murkomen? Let him contribute and if he has any issue to raise, let him do it appropriately.
Madam Temporary Speaker, if you did not hear any insult on me, I will let it pass.
You can bring it to my attention. That is why you have the microphone.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I will let it pass. Let me make my contributions.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.
Why do you not allow Sen. Murkomen to contribute? Okay, proceed, Sen. Sang.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. When you directed Sen. Murkomen to apologise and withdraw, you made it clear that you were starting with him because he started whatever it is that he said. However, you made a commitment that after Sen. Murkomen does the same, you would ask the other Senator. Which other Senator were you referring to? Madam Temporary Speaker, you seem to have changed your mind.
Sen. Sang, we are all reading from the same script. That is why I have given Sen. Murkomen the Floor. I am keenly listening to him to bring it to my attention. That is why he has the Floor. I do not know why everybody does not want to give him that opportunity. He is free to bring to my attention any unparliamentary word that was used against him. Proceed, Sen. Billow.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Any Member of Parliament can stand on a point of order. It is not necessarily the party. That is whey Sen. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sanity is now reigning. That is what I have been waiting for. We have to follow the procedure. I said that I will deal with this one because it was the first instance, and that was raised. Then, I thought by giving Sen. Murkomen the Floor, he would go straight to point out that fact; which you have done. We now come to that because it is true that while Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale was responding and raising the reference used by Sen. Murkomen, he also used the word “boy.” I heard it. It is now time to ask Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale for the use of the word “boy” in reference to Sen. Murkomen, that it would only be honourable and in order for him to also apologise and withdraw. There is no boy or girl in the Senate. We only have hon. Senators and Members. I heard the use of the word “boy” and that is what I am referring to. So, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, simply and honourably withdraw and apologise for referring to Sen. Murkomen as a boy.
Madam Temporary Speaker, thank you for that opportunity - because we respect the Standing Orders, we will continue leading in respecting the Standing Orders. May it be forever clear for the record that I said that his bloated behaviour of bigness is consistent with the behaviour of a boy.
Which is wrong; so, apologise.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I am concluding. It is consistent with the behaviour of a boy. It is up to him to raise his stature to be above the stature of boys.
Hon. Senator, I have already given my ruling.
Madam Temporary Speaker, for that reason---
No! Hon. Senator, simply apologise and withdraw. That is unparliamentary. I want to bring this to a close. Apologise and withdraw.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I therefore, with those words, withdraw and apologise.
Hon. Senators, we bring this to a close. I want us to revert to what was on the Floor of the House. In your contribution, please, do not make any further reference to what has taken place. Sen. Murkomen, proceed with your contribution.
Madam Temporary Speaker, if a bright Senator will be given a chance, those governors - I will not refer to anybody anymore---
Hon. Senators, can we have some The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Madam Temporary Speaker, as I was saying, many governors know that if you get a bright Senator like Sen. Billow to make a presentation in that conference, they are likely to point out the real issues that are affecting devolution. Most of them are uncomfortable with facts, truth and the fact that we will point out matters particularly related to oversight. Therefore, it is not possible for us to continue going to a conference where the objective is basically to add to the numbers so that people can use us for either fundraising or colouring their conference. It is also important to inform the Chairman of the Committee on Devolved Government, that the fact that one member of the organizing committee of the conference is dragging all of them to Meru – Meru is not a bad place, it is a wonderful county – is already an indication of who calls the shots. It is important if this conference as was suggested last year will be considered to be equal for all of us, there should be a committee working on the functions of county assemblies, another one on the issues that deputy governors want to raise, another one on issues of the Senate and another one for governors. Already, even the adverts in the newspapers are already pointing to the fact that it is a conference of governors. Madam Temporary Speaker, unless that is restored; that we are discussing devolution, not individuals – if you saw what happened in Kisumu, bill boards were erected bearing names of governors and pamphlets praising individuals were distributed - we are going in the wrong direction on matters of devolution. So, I agree with the Senate Majority and Minority leaders that until sanity is restored in the process – we own the process not just the product – so that when we reach that conference, there is an equal status that is enjoyed by county assemblies, Senators, deputy governors and governors so that no one of them will be lording it over the others. It is only then that we can say it is a devolution conference; particularly when we are talking about the third year where the Constitution referred to the transition period being three years. This is the true year for us to look back and ask ourselves, “in the three years of transition, what have we done on matters of devolution?” What is the contribution of which sector and institution? We need to make that a conference that is worthy.
Thank you. Proceed, Sen. Hassan.
Madam Temporary Speaker, my Chairperson of the Committee on Devolved Government, Sen. (Prof.) Lesan is quite optimistic. We have tried this in the last two conferences, sat in those committees with optimism. In fact, I remember that in the first devolution conference, we threatened not to participate before some of our concerns were taken on board. So, these are some of the challenges. We do not want to simply go and glorify people; and that conference is managed in such a manner that it tries to glorify and not necessarily give a very objective critique of devolution and even take up issues that governors do in this country; which must be noted by everybody. Madam Temporary Speaker, I would like to advise Sen. (Prof.) Lesan; as we go there - the last time I was in that conference, I was put in a panel of nine people; four governors – in other words even your view will be in a minority. Everybody is told to go round and speak fast. That is all about public relations. I have never seen a conference The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I need protection from the Chair. The Senator is harassing me.
Proceed because you are safe.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I was a bit taken aback by what Sen. (Prof.) Lesan was saying on this matter because he seemed excited about an invitation to go to Meru.
I thought I would be more excited to go to Meru than him because of the political reasons that the Sen. Hassan knows. In this Constitution, if you look at the hierarchy of institutions and State organs, it is the people first, Parliament, Executive and then the Judiciary. We should not forget the order in which State organs are set up in the Constitution is not by accident. That order is very deliberate. In the old Constitution, the order was the Executive, the Judiciary and then, finally, Parliament. However, this was changed totally. It is not only in the provision of Article 1, but if you go through the Constitution, Parliament always comes first. Madam Temporary Speaker, what I would urge the Speaker of the Senate is that when the Senate is invited as an institution or as a State organ, it should confer with the leadership of the House. This is because the Chairperson should not make a decision without consulting the leadership. This meeting is out of consultation by the CoGs. They sat and decided to hold this meeting in Meru. In this one, the Speaker has ordered the Senator for Bomet to go to Meru. I urge him that before he gets excited about it, he needs to find out first. A lot of times, you will realise that "meetings are made before they are held". Decisions are made before meetings are held. He may be walking in a place like Kisumu--- when I saw the banners about the conference that was held there, I decided not to appear there because I knew I did not belong there. The leadership of the side opposite side may not agree with me. I am directing this to the Senate Majority Leader, Sen. (Prof) Kindiki) because he is the one who can protect this House since he has a nexus with the Executive. This idea of the Speakers of the National Assembly and the Senate taking Bills to be assented to by the President and they stand as the President sits, is a mockery of democracy. Even in a monarchy, it does not happen that way. These two institutions are co-equal in the legislation process. By that fact, we are undermining the Parliament. We should think through this properly so that in the competition for power and authority, we should never undermine the authority of Parliament, irrespective of the parties we belong to. Madam Temporary Speaker, I urge the Speaker to summon Sen. (Prof.) Lesan and put a caveat so that he does not go to Meru until further consultations about the process are carried out with the leadership of the House.
Hon. Senators, there is still a lot of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I echo the sentiments of Sen. Hassan on the reports of the first two conferences. Secondly, the Senator for Bomet does not have to go there. He can even write a protest note. We have seen conferences being held whereby the nerve of the devolution units are Senators. I have never seen Senators given their rightful place in those conferences. We have conferred with my colleague, Sen. Ndiema. He told me that yesterday he went to his county for a conference. However, when he realised he does not belong there, he left in a huff. This conference is a way of wasting taxpayers’ money. This money can be spent on provision of essential services to our people. I feel that Sen. (Prof.) Lesan should not go to Meru.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. In my view, unless such a conference is organized by the Senate, it makes no sense to go there. This is because there has never been a conference with the Governors that has ended with any form of respectable protocol. We have always come out disappointed. During the devolution conference in Kisumu we were lumped together with the Members of the County Assemblies (MCAs). The MCAs were even openly challenging the Senators and cheering for the people they are supposed to be oversighting. We were treated as strangers and subjected to ridicule. Even the investment conferences are turning out to be campaign forums for the sitting governors. In fact, those investment conferences are named after the governors. The governors invite their fellow governors and the Senators are not given an opportunity to also invite their colleagues, yet they represent the counties. Therefore, our place must be considered.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I support all the Senators who have spoken before me in urging the Chair of the Committee on Devolved Government that the Senate should not participate in that forum. We need to ask ourselves what came out of the first conference and how much was spent. What happened in Kisumu was more of a show of might by the governors. The Senate Minority Leader was there and could not even be recognized. In fact, there was no seat reserved for him and other Senators. The governors chest-thump yet we are the people who protect and provide for them. Instead of them organizing a forum where they can explain to us the challenges they are going through, they try to show how powerful they are. Last year our President was in Meru and there was a major showdown regarding who is powerful in Meru. Of course, everybody knows how powerful Sen. Kiraitu is there. Now that Chair of the Council of Governors is inviting all governors and Senators to Meru, I want to believe that this will be a forum for the governors to campaign for the Governor of Meru and show the Senators how powerful they are. They are using the money that we allocated them to campaign for re-election. The Chairman of the Committee on Devolved Government needs to tell us how much was used by the governors in the last forum. We also need to know where those funds came from. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I start from the premise that every institution involved in devolution has a right to organize a workshop or an annual meeting on devolution to assess the achievements of that devolution from their perspective, taking into account their mandate under the Constitution. If you start from that premise, then the governors have the right to organize their devolution conference, which will assess the achievements of devolution, taking into account their mandate under the Constitution. The Senators also have the right to organize such a conference, taking into account our mandate under the Constitution. The county speakers have a similar right and so on. Part of the problem has been that we have taken the governors’ devolution conferences to be ones that assess everything on devolution. During the first conference there were issues of protocol and most of us did not appear. In fact, only Sen. Gideon Moi appeared at that first conference. In Kisumu, similar issues arose, but we have to take into account that, that is their conference. Should we not also organize a devolution conference to assess ourselves and the achievements that we have made under the Constitution? Can we not also invite the Council of Governors or whoever wants to come to join us? Can the county speakers also not do a similar thing? If we can do that, we will get somewhere. The way forward, taking into account that next year is the fifth year---
Senator, I will give you one more minute.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. Taking into account that there will be the last such conference next year, I would like the leadership of the Senate, Council of Governors and county speakers to come together and organize a devolution conference to assess the achievements over the five-year period. Let next year’s conference be organized by all of us – the Senators, governors, county speakers and the national Government – so that we can have a proper assessment on the success of devolution during the period that we have been Senators. Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I have been a Senator for the last three years and was in this House when the first and second conferences were organized. The Chair of the Council of Governors then was my governor. Those meetings were chest-thumping forums for the governors. I have listened to the sentiments of the Senators, including senior Members of this House and have no reason not to take their concerns seriously. During the last conference the Parliamentary Service Commission spent Kshs10 million. I am sure that the Senate is not excited about this year’s conference and not even a cent has been allocated for it. Therefore, the expressions by the Senators are valid. I am already worried about this meeting as I go to Meru, in that it has taken a new dimension. One of the things we are going to discuss already involves the Nchuri Ncheke . We will meet them tomorrow. Even the conference itself is known as “The Governors’ Devolution Conference.” It certainly has---
I will allow on intervention by Sen. Omar. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Did you hear Sen. (Prof.) Lesan escalating this situation further by stating that they will have a meeting with the Njuri Ncheke? As he concludes, could he give us a synopsis of how the Njuri Ncheke connects to the Devolution Conference?
Senator, could you clarify that point before we bring this to a close?
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Could he also confirm which faction of Njuri Ncheke and whether the Kalenjin Council of Elders and all the other councils of elders within this country are also part and parcel of this?
Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, make that clarification to the Senate.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I have no reason to disobey the instructions given to me by my Speaker. I got a letter requesting me to join two other governors in the steering committee. We will deliberate on the programmes of devolution. The letter at the end indicates that there will be a meeting with the business community in Meru. The business community includes and, in fact, it is organised by the Njuri Ncheke. The letter did not specify which of the functions of the many Njuri Nchekes in Meru, but that is what it says. Madam Temporary Speaker, as to my own plan of visiting Meru, I have already excluded being part of what the Njuri Ncheke will discuss with governors in the conference. That is as per the instructions given to me. However, it is very unfortunate that this Senate has been left out of a very important discussion that we need to have with the rest of the Members of the Committee on Devolved Government. During the discussion with the Speaker, it was noted by the Speaker that we ought to organise our own conference where the Senate will be the prime mover of the conference. I thought that is an idea that needs to be solidified or held very firmly by this Senate so that we can do that. In the meantime, it will be nice to have first-hand information delivered to this Senate, so that we can make a very firm decision as to whether we should or not participate in the conference. I am at the disposal of the House. Members of my Community on Devolved Government are senior Members of this House. I am sure we can deliberate at the committee stage and report to this House whether we should participate or not. Thank you.
Thank you, Senator. However, you have taken note because you listened to the Senators very well. Your Committee has been put on notice by all Senators. They said that they have no intention of being in attendance if a clear function or role is not indicated in the programme or if they are not recognised or do not have a role to play. So, I believe that you will see how to juggle around that in your proceedings. Hon. Senators, we have to move to the next Order.
The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. Gwendo, are you ready with the paper you were supposed to lay?
Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. REPORT OF THE COMMONWEALTH WOMEN PARLIAMENTARIANS’ REGIONAL CAPACITY BUILDING WORKSHOP
Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Thursday, 17th March, 2016:- The Report of Commonwealth Women Parliamentarians’ Regional Capacity Building Workshop held in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania from 20th to 23rd January, 2016. Thank you.
Thank you, Sen. Gwendo. You may take your seat. Let us proceed. Sen. Khaniri. THE ANNUAL REPORT OF THE NLC FOR THE YEAR 2014/2015
Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Thursday, 17th March, 2016; The Annual Report of the National Land Commission for the Year 2014/2015. Thank you.
Let us proceed. Next Order.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, pursuant to Standing Order No.177(3) and 179(1), the Senate approves the following Senators nominated by the Rules and Business Committee (RBC) to be The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, the Senate notes the Report of the Commonwealth Women Parliamentarians’ Regional Capacity Building Workshop held in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, from 20th to 23rd January,2016, laid on the Table of the House today, Thursday, 17th March, 2016. Thank you.
Thank you Senator. Let us proceed to the next Order.
The Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget, Sen. Billow, is not in the House. So, that will be skipped.
The Chairperson of the Committee on Education, Sen. Karaba, is also not in the House. Therefore, we shall also skip the Statement.
Let us move to the next statement which was directed to the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Energy. The Statement was requested by Sen. Adan and she is in the House. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to reply. On 4th March, 2016, Sen. Adan requested a statement on the provision of electricity to Oldonyiro Trading Centre. She wanted to know why the trading centre has no electricity while it is 41 kilometres away from the supply point. The response is as follows. The Government, through the Rural Electrification Authority (REA), has been focusing on electrification of public facilities including trading centres, secondary schools, health centres and water supply systems. However, in the past three years from 2013 to 2016, the focus has been electrification of public primary schools in preparation for digital learning. Currently, it is estimated that 87,864 public facilities are in the county countrywide. Out of that, 59,604 have been connected with electricity making it 68 per cent. The remaining 32 per cent, which is 28,261 including Oldonyiro Trading Centre, are yet to be connected. The second question was: When will the Government connect the trading centre and its surrounding facilities with electricity taking into consideration that the area is prone to insecurity? The Government will embark on electrification in the remaining public facilities in the next two years, by June 2018. However, after I got this response, the Government has confirmed that they will supply electricity in the next Financial Year, 2016/2017. Thank you.
Madam Temporary Speaker, first let me take this opportunity to thank the Chairperson of the Committee. However, my question was specific on the connection of electricity to Oldonyiro. Unfortunately, the Chairperson is giving me what the department has been doing in Isiolo County. So, I would request him to be specific in terms of the urgency of this matter especially given that this is a matter that concerns that county in terms of security. Connecting electricity from Laikipia to Oldonyiro is not far. I would urge the Chairperson to give me a specific period within which electricity will be connected. He is talking about 2016/2017 and 2018 but 2018 is very far. Rural electrification is taking place in the country. Could he, please, connect the people of Oldonyiro with electricity as urgently as possible?
Madam Temporary Speaker, I said, specifically, they will be connected in the next Financial Year, 2016/2017 which is about three months away starting from July 2016. So, it is budgeted for and it will be connected in the next financial year.
Sen. Adan, are you satisfied?
Madam Temporary Speaker, I think it is in order if it is the next financial year.
Thank you, Senators. Let us move to the next Statement sought by Sen. Adan from the Chairperson of the Committee on Information and Technology. POOR MOBILE TELEPHONE NETWORK COVERAGE IN OLDONYIRO WARD The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Madam Temporary Speaker, In March 2016, Sen. Adan requested a Statement from the Chairperson. In that Statement, she wanted to know:- 1. Whether the Chairperson is aware that mobile telephony network coverage in Oldonyiro Ward and its environs in Isiolo County is weak, making people walk more than 20 kilometers to make mobile phone calls including calls for emergency medical assistance. 2. The causes of poor network. 3. When strong and reliable mobile telephone network coverage will be availed to the ward and its environs bearing in mind that the areas is prone to insecurity. I beg to reply. One, yes, we are aware that there is poor network coverage in Oldonyiro Ward and its environs in Isiolo County. Two, the poor coverage has been mainly due to the challenging geographical terain and commercial viability of mobile telephone business in the area. Three, to address the poor network coverage in the area, the Government, through the Communications Authority of Kenya (CAK), in its licensing obligations to mobile telephone services providers – Safaricom Ltd and Airtel – has made it mandatory for the two operators to extend their infrastructure coverage to Lonkopito and Kipsang sub- locations of the ward by 2018. In addition, the Ngoruma Sub-location is considered marginal for smart subsidy as it provides for only 14 per cent of viability ratio. Therefore, the Authority has considered it for Universal Service Fund Support in the FY 2016/2017. Four, further, the Ministry has written to the mobile network operators through the Communications Authority of Kenya (CA) to provide clear actions being taken on the service quality within 14 days. Failure to which the Ministry of Information, Communications and Technology shall provide other measures to ensure service quality is improved. Thank you.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I appreciate the response given by the Member of the Committee on behalf of the Chairperson. I have no further clarification on the same. I hope the department will take action on that matter come FY 2016/2017.
Thank you.Let us move on to the next statement---
Madam Temporary Speaker, I have a request.
Sen. Khaniri, do you have a request? Okay, I had not seen it.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I know the questioner says that she is satisfied with the answer. However, let me make it clear that the Chairperson says that the Government has made it mandatory for Safaricom Ltd and Airtel to extend their services to those areas. Safaricom Ltd and Airtel are business enterprises and the reason they are not extending service to that area even if you force them, is because it is not profitable. That is why when I was at the Ministry, we established the Universal Service Fund which the Government controls so that they can assist such areas where it is not profitable for a company or service provider to take service.We access money from the Fund to give them services. I do not think Safaricom Ltd and Airtel will extend services there because it is not The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
I hope the Member of the Committee on Information, Communications and Technology has taken note of that critical input.
Madam Temporary Speaker, yes, I have.
Madam Temporary Speaker, just to inform Sen. Khaniri, Safaricom Ltd is a public entity largely owned by Kenyans – taxpayers. As much as their interest is making profit, I think some of those profits can be diverted to ensure that these services get to some of these areas as catalysts for growth. If you want to grow these areas, you must provide them with electricity, communication and build infrastructure. Just because an area has been marginalized, it does not mean that in the scheme of business particularly of public entities like Safaricom Ltd, they should marginalize these areas further because they cannot maximize on profit. I think these are some of the areas in which commerce and things like basic needs should take root. We have gotten to a point in our lives today where mobile telephony andWi-Fi are almost becoming a basic right because it allows you access to very many other rights. You will find that you are asked to register online or go online to get forms. So, to access many other rights, it means that we must reach out to our brothers and sisters in areas that have been hitherto marginalized. Therefore, I think it is important for that directive to be effected with immediate effect.
That is very useful information and observation, there. Let us move on to the next Statement. Where is the Chairperson of the Legal Affairs and Human Rights? Sen. Wako was in the chamber, I think he has stepped out.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I had requested to speak.
I am not seeing any request. Ok, proceed but nothing is reflecting here.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I want to join Sen. Adan. It is not only part of Isiolo which is having this problem. My county which is just next to Nairobi City County, in fact, an area like Mosiro and some parts of Magadi, we do not have networks. What is much worrying is that any time you see the Safaricom adverts; you will see them using a very handsome Maasai man with their regalias receiving phone calls. Other than that, I do not think the network within Nairobi is good. Any time you receive calls, you will not be sure that you are going to finish the conversation without the drops. So, I think there is a major problem with Safaricom because we cannot be assured that any time you are on a call that you will manage to finish without the drop.
Madam Temporary Speaker, could the Chairman also tell us why Safaricom services are deteriorating day by day? Even when they advertise that they cover the entire highway from Mombasa to Malaba, there is hardly any coverage. The system is so erratic that when you are on phone, another call comes in and terminates the call on which you are. This happens continuously. Can he tell us why Safaricom has deviated from the work of providing mobile telephony to Kenyans to being a partner in provision of security services and conniving in rigging of elections in this country? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you Madam Temporary Speaker. From the request made by the Minority Leader, this is a new request; I do not have adequate information as to why they are interfering with elections. If I get a new request, I will be able to deal with that but for now, I can only pass the sentiments of this House to Safaricom and to the other providers to ensure that the quality is improved. This Universal Service Fund was set up because of the areas which are not covered like Kajiado,and it is going to be used to ensure that the entire country is covered and the services are improved. That is why the fund was set up by the Government.
We move to the next statement. ONGOING VOTER REGISTRATION BY IEBC The Chairperson of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights is not in the House and the person who asked the question is also not in the House. So, we move to the next.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I wish to make a Ministerial response to a statement request on the operationalization of the County Wildlife Conservation and Compensation Committee. Pursuant to the provision of Standing Order No. 45 (2), at the sitting of the Senate held on Thursday 3rd March, 2016, Sen. Adan requested for a statement from our committee. In the statement, the Senator sought the following information:- 1. Whether I am aware that the Kenya Wildlife Conservation and Management Act establishes the County Wildlife Conservation and Compensation Committee. 2. Whether the Government has set up County Wildlife Conservation and Compensation committees in all the 47 counties. 3. Whether all committees from the 47 counties are operational and if not, state the reasons why they are not. 4. Indicate the amount of money allocated to the County Wildlife Conservation and Compensation committees in the financial year 2015/2016 budget. 5. Explain the immediate measures that the Government is taking to ensure that the committees become operational so as to execute the mandate as per the Kenya Wildlife Conservation and Management Act. Madam Temporary Speaker, in response to question one, I am aware that the Wildlife Conservation and Management Act calls for the establishment of the County Wildlife Conservation and Compensation committees. This is clearly stated in part 11 Section 7 (c) of the Wildlife Conservation and Management Act, 2013. That calls for the setting up of the County Wildlife Conservation and Compensation Committee in respect The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Hon. Senators, consult in low tones to allow the Senator to proceed.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, Sir. (c) The estimated budget to fully operationalize the 47 Committees has been prepared. In conclusion, the Ministry requests to be accorded support by the Senate, in the provision of a comprehensive budget, on human wildlife compensation.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I thank the Chairperson of the Committee for the response. The reason why these committees are supposed to be operationalized is for the purpose of compensation for victims of the wildlife and human conflict. There is so much violation of human rights by wildlife in this country. In question 3, in Isiolo County, we have a lot of backlog in terms of the cases that are before the Committee. Unfortunately, apart from establishing the Committee, they have not been operational. That is the true picture because they do not have budgetary allocations. Secondly, they were not given honoraria to start working on those cases that are before them. With regard to question four, Ksh8,901,200 was allocated to 35 counties. This money will not be enough to deal with matters that are before the Committees of 35 counties. The Ministry should be serious enough and allocate enough funds and compensate those individuals whose rights are violated as quickly as possible.
Sen. Adan, in essence, you are not completely satisfied with the answer given?
Madam Temporary Speaker, I am not satisfied because that is not the true picture of what is on the ground.
Chairperson, in view of that, when will you bring a satisfactory answer that can be convincing to Sen. Adan and other Senators?
Madam Temporary Speaker, I do not think there can be any other satisfactory answer than this. Sen. Adan has said that we do not have money. In both comments, on the Isiolo County backlog, she said that there has not been any budget. In her other comment she said that the allocation of Ksh8,901,200 is little which is true. In my answer, we are requesting that the forward budget supports the Ministry to make these committees operational. Even if we seek another Statement, we will just be asking for more money. I do not think there is anything else that we can do at this moment other than to get money in the forward budget. This particular request is contained in my last Statement.
Senate Majority Chief Whip, do you have an intervention on the same? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Madam Temporary Speaker, while the Chairperson is really lobbying for the Ministry to get more resources, I do not understand why the Ministry has not taken the initiative of mobilising business men and women who would wish to help in the crocodile industry. They have had a lot of challenges especially in Tana River, where a businesswoman wishes to take wildlife crocodiles and then give incentives back to the community. The same Ministry has ignored her letters and denied her to do the business. While they look for incentives, they are also leaving out good incentives. They would have worked together with communities to ensure that they have the monies to compensate the affected people.
Madam Temporary Speaker, it is sad that the Ministry has not managed to get funds to give to the committees or to make them functional. In my county, we have more than a thousand cases of compensation claims from people living within Loitoktok area. The marauding elephants have been killing people and destroyed their farm inputs. The latest issues of elephants conflict with the people was last week. We lost some children and other people last year. There seem not to be mitigation measures which Kenya Wildlife Service (KWS) or the relevant authorities have put in place to make sure that the conflict is eradicated. It is saddening when we are told that these Committees cannot function because of funds and because of that, our people cannot be compensated. The Chairperson should tell the relevant Ministry to make sure that we get funds so that those Committees can function.
Madam Temporary Speaker, it is not in order for the Chairperson of the Committee to tell us that he is satisfied with the answer but the person who sought the Statement is not satisfied. Is it in order for the Committee Chairperson to tell us that he is very satisfied, with the answer, while the person who sought the request is not? Wildlife conservation in this country is a national matter. There are people who are willing to partner with the Government of Kenya to conserve wildlife. These county units which have been created are very vocal for this kind of conservation. I request the Committee Chairperson to call the Cabinet Secretary (CS) to come and explain. Maybe the CS is sleeping on the job and does not understand what he is doing. One does not have to ask for taxpayers’ money from the Government. There are other partners who are willing to assist us conserve our wildlife.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is a travesty for the Committee Chair to say that this answer is very satisfactory. There is a demand that more money should be allocated to these compensation committees and that they should be operationalized. It must be noted that most of these conservancies are in some of the most marginalized and under-developed parts of Kenya. It is important that the Government commits its resources to shield some of these most vulnerable societies. These wildlife conservancies bring this country enormous revenue in terms of tourism. Therefore, it is only prudent and right for us to commit some monies back in The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order, Sen. Hassan! I am not a madam.
Sorry. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I hope there is a day in this country that we can use words majestically. Where ‘he’ can connote ‘she’ and ‘she’ can connote ‘he’. That way, people would not feel offended. That when I reer to you as madam Mositet, madam, can also mean mister in a majestic way. However, I take note.
Sen. Hassan, I will never be proud of that. No! You must know where I come from.
Okay, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We should interrogate whether these compensations that KWS gives families upon death and injuries are reasonable and proper. When a life is lost, the compensation is just about Kshs100,000. This is not enough. It is so immoral as a country, that we can expose our own citizens to harm by failing in our responsibility to protect them in areas that are of wildlife nature. The fact that when a life is lost, the compensation is Kshs100,000 is the reason we do not do much to protect our people. If today the Government of Kenya knew that for every life, they will pay Kshs10,000,000, no life will be lost. One can easily part with Kshs100,000. Most of us here, a sum of Kshs100,000 is a cup of tea. Most of us spend Kshs100,000 for very mundane activities here and there, once in a while. These families are poor. These areas are poor. Therefore by paying Kshs100,000, we relegate them to further poverty.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this wildlife conservation issue is very important and must be taken seriously. We have two Government systems. Every level of Government must be empowered and must nurture this issue. There was a time in Kenya, tourism was the highest earner of Government resources. We took that for granted. We have relaxed. Even Tanzania is doing better now. Many people are going for tourism business elsewhere because we have not taken good care of our wildlife. Animals are dying and migrating as forests are being cleared. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the other day, residents of Langata were being terrorized by wild animals. This is because someone somewhere has done something wrongly. We ought to take this seriously. Had those animals killed the residents of Langata, how would they be compensated? Was the Government able and ready? Why should we wait for that? The Committee Chair should look into this matter. Serious steps need to be taken on this. We should protect the residents of Langata and Kenyans at large.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I agree with some of the sentiments The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker. Sir. The Committee Chair is speaking as if he is the CS. The Senator who asked for the question is not satisfied. He has told us about policy issues at the Ministry. Many donors in this country are interested to conserve our wildlife. Ours was to request the Committee Chair to sermon the CS here to explain those policy issues. We can then advise him on where to get the money. Is he in order to start explaining policy issues from the Ministry to us?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this issue of wildlife is a very sensitive issue. It is really unfair for the chairperson to tell us that he can only carry out compensation when the money will be available. This is a constitutional provision. It is really important for the families who have lost their dear ones to be compensated or otherwise. We have a lot of issue concerning KWS. I request the chairperson to sermon the CS so that all the counties that are affected by the issue of KWS can have a one-on-one with the CS when he appears before the Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I wish to give a Statement on behalf of the Senator for Kajiado.
Order, Senator! We have not reached there, please. Mr. chairperson, before you respond, the Senators are in order to tell you that you should not talk like the CS. We have a CS whom you can bring to the Senate to address the Committee of the Whole. If you feel powerless, then through the Chair, I am ordering The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you have rightly put it. I am also wearing the same shoe. I feel the same pinch. Therefore, I will write to the CS to appear in this House as requested by the two Senators. At that moment, I may also ask a few questions.
The Senator for Machakos says that there was a statement which was supposed to be issued by Sen. Dullo. However, it is not in the Order Paper. I cannot see it. One cannot say that the temporary Speaker allowed it yet she never communicated to me.
Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): This is a statement on the business of the House. BUSINESS FOR THE WEEK COMMENCING TUESDAY 22ND, MARCH, 2016
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is to present the Business of the Senate for next week. Ordinarily, on Tuesday, we will have the Rules and Business Committee (RBC) meeting to schedule the business for the next week. However, subject to that meeting, we expect the Senate, on Wednesday, to discuss the following Bills, among others:- 1. The Kenya National Examinations Council (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.7 of 2015). 2. The Office of the County Attorney Bill (Senate Bill No.37 of 2014). 3. The Office of the County Printer Bill (Senate Bill No. 42 of 2014). 4. The Water Bill (National Assembly Bill No.7 of 2014). 5. The Universities (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.31 of 2014). 6. The County Assemblies Services Bill (Senate Bill No.27 of 2014). 7. The County Hall of Fame Bill (Senate Bill No.33 of 2014). On Thursday, any Business that will not have been concluded on Wednesday will continue, including deliberations on various Bills that are on Second Reading, deliberation of Motions and any other Business that will be rescheduled by the RBC. I request colleagues to show up so that we can deal with it, especially with the voting which has been problematic this week. Hopefully, next week we can dispense with a number of Bills that require division. I thank you. I now lay this Statement on the Table of the Senate.
What is your point of order, Sen. Orengo?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir. The Senate Majority Leader does well in giving us a Statement every Thursday about the Business of the House in the following week. However, he does not do the converse which is equally The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, that is straightforward. Do you want to respond to that now or will you do it next week when you will be issuing the statement?
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Standing Order No.45(2)(c) is the relevant Standing Order for the matter that has been raised by my senior, Senator for Siaya County, Sen. Orengo. In brief, it talks about what the Senate Majority Leader or other leaders listed there may do, on Thursday. That is to present and lay on the Table, a statement informing the Senate of the Business coming before the Senate, in the following week. Therefore, it is very clear what that Statement is supposed to contain. There is no harm in using that time to also comment on where we are in terms of progress. There is nothing purely unlawful in even reviewing the past week. Most of this is discussed at the RBC. If the feeling of the RBC, which Sen. Orengo is Member, is that, that should also be discussed in the plenary, I have no objection. SHOOTING OF INNOCENT CITIZENS BY ADMINISTRATION POLICE IN UGUNJA TOWN AND ITS SURROUNDINGS
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to request the following Statement from the chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations. She is not here. However, there are Members of that Committee here who could give me an indication as to when the Statement requested will be responded to. The request is; 1. Will the Chairman confirm whether the Government is aware that there have been numerous instances of members of the public being fatally shot or injured by gun fire from the police; particularly, the Administration Police in UgunjaTownship and the surrounding areas in Siaya County. 2. Is the Government aware that there have been police-related acts of robbery in the same area for nearly two years? This has caused anger, animosity and despondency from the members of public against the police. 3. What was the number of deaths caused by the use of arms or fire by the police on the 11th and 12th March, 2016? That is just last week. 4. How many killings or acts of homicide have taken place in the period between and including 1st December, 2015 to 14th January, 2016 arising from the use of fire arms by the police in Siaya County? 5. Will the Government consider change of police personnel in Siaya County and Ugunja Police Division as well as the arrest and prosecution of officers involved in the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Is the Chairperson or any Member of that Committee in the House?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am a Member of that Committee. I will inform her to issue the Statement. However, I had also wanted to ride on it as well. Could you allow me to ride on it?
It is alright. Go ahead.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, she will read the HANSARD as she prepare her response. In answering the concerns of the distinguished Senator for Siaya County, the House will also be interested in knowing from the Chairperson relaying the message from the Cabinet Secretary, why we have increased misuse of firearms by, not just the police, but armed public servants, particularly Kenya Wildlife Services (KWS) officers who have been shooting helpless unarmed villagers every time they encounter them in conservation areas? The law is very clear that a lawfully armed police officer or any other public servant can only use his arm against an unarmed civilian when there is imminent danger and the use of the firearm should be to disarm and not to kill the citizen. I will inform the Chairperson whom I think will give a response in two weeks’ time.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in addition to that, I would like to know what effort the Government is taking, including reference of some of the shooting to the Independent Policing Oversight Authority (IPOA), to determine the circumstances of the shooting. In other countries, whenever a police officer uses a fire arm, there is an inquiry as to the circumstances of the shooting. In fact, to be precise, Kenya has adopted international standards on the use of firearm. One can only use a firearm when your life or the life of another is under threat and no other time. Therefore, I would like to know whether any action was taken to investigate the circumstance of the shooting. EXPENDITURE OF KSHS15 BILLION SET ASIDE FOR EL NINO
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am not riding on the same, but I am rising in regard to Statement No.(a). We expected that this statement would be issued today because it was on the Order Paper yesterday. The Chairperson was here, ready with the answer, but we requested for time to interrogate the written reply and that it be issued today. The Chairperson has been here and immediately we came to the Order of Statements, he disappeared. This was very deliberate and in contempt of this House. He should be reprimanded or some sanctions be taken against him because he is taking the House for a ride.
I can see some Members of that Committee; Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and the Senate Minority Leader are Members of that Committee and the Statement is on the Table. Could I ask one of them to respond?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
I order that all Chairpersons of Committees to be serious with their responses to statements.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I stand because the Chair had already directed that the statement be made today. Therefore, it is not a matter of pushing the issue back to the Committee. The Speaker should order that particular Chairperson to be ready with the statement at the next sitting which will be on Tuesday together with an explanation as to why he walked out without excusing himself.
I order that the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget be in the House on Tuesday, next week, to issue that Statement. THE KILLING OF TWO PEOPLE IN KAJIADO COUNTY BY MARAUDING ELEPHANTS
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have a request for a statement on behalf of the Senator for Kajiado County. Pursuant to Standing Order No.45(2)(b), I rise to seek a statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Land and Natural Resources regarding the killing of two people in Kajiado County by marauding elephants. In the Statement, the Chairperson should:- (1) Explain the circumstances leading to the death of Mr. Saitoti Santamo ole Ku and three year old Ntompo Ntoipo Nchaiyo within Kajiado East Constituency, Kajiado County on 2nd February and 6th March 2016, respectively. (2) Explain the status of compensation claims for the two victims and measures taken by the KWS to keep watch over wildlife and ensure that they do not pose danger to people living around wildlife conservancies, game reserves and national parks. KILLING OF TWO PEOPLE IN KAJIADO COUNTY BY SUSPECTED KWS RANGERS Pursuant to Standing Order No.45(2)(b), I rise to seek a statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations regarding the killing of two people in Kajiado County by suspected KWS rangers. In the statement, the Chairperson should:- (1) Explain the circumstances leading to the death Mr. Ntere Ntaki and Mr. Mpiti Kenkune on 2nd April, 2016 at Musire in Kajiado West Constituency in Kajiado County. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
The first Statement was directed to the Chairperson of Lands and Natural Resources and we are privileged to have him in the House to tell us when he get us the response.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have to write to the Ministries who have to get details from the source, I request for two weeks.
The second statement was directed to the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations. Is the Chairperson or any Member of that Committee present in the House?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will inform the Chairperson. I hope that he can bring a response in two weeks.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, pursuant to Standing Order Nos. 177(3) and 179(1), the Senate approves the following Senators nominated by the Rules and Business Committee, to be members of the Sessional Committee on County Public Accounts and Investments - 1. Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’ Nyong'o 2. Sen. George Khaniri 3. Sen. Henry Ole Ndiema 4. Sen. Kennedy Okong’o Mong’are Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in the last few weeks, there have been some developments in relation to the Committee on County Public Accounts and Investments (CPAIC), a very critical Committee in this House; not that other committees are not critical but given that our principal function as the institution that oversights the use of public funds within county governments, then this Committee becomes so critical. It helps this House to do that oversight. I do not want to belabour the developments because that is now history behind us. There were small political issues and they have been addressed. We have had to engage with my brother, the Senate Minority Leader, on how to proceed. Therefore, we have these four names because – if Members may want to know – of what had happened, some of the colleagues resigned from the Committee because of the disagreement, but now they have accepted to serve once more. I appeal for compromise because this list is a result of political compromise that has been done on both sides. I can point out just one The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to second the Motion. The brief history narrated by my brother, the Senate Majority Leader, is absolutely factual and true. We move and second this Motion---
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is misconduct.
Order, Sen. Chiaba. We understand that he is excited.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the distinguished Senator for Lamu and I entered Parliament the same day in 1993. We have been here for quite some time. He is a good friend. He got overawed by the presence of a person young enough to be his son. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this Motion is designed to get the CPAIC back to the rails to do its work. I salute the outgoing CPAIC under the stewardship of Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, the distinguished Senator for Kakamega, for putting the oversight activity and role of the Senate firmly on the national map. They did a sterling job. It was well received by the public and well publicized. Every single Senator who leads a delegation The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank the Senate Majority and Minority Leaders because they have brought the House in order after they consulted. I am sure the Committee will now do its work. As the Senate Minority Leader said, we will be going to a very serious campaign in 2017. With these billboards, governors have already started campaigning for themselves. However, we need to sensitise Kenyans to understand what has been happening in the counties. As we celebrate the third year of devolution, this Committee will have an opportunity to analyse reports from the counties. I hope Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale will support them. This committee is critical in the Senate, especially when the term of the Transition Authority (TA) has come to an end. We need to see them taking care of counties' assets and identify where they are. The Auditor General must ensure that every county has an inventory of their assets and liabilities. The other time we saw governors pushing for more resources to be develoved to counties. They were even calling for a referendum. When they put a lot of pressure on the national Government over this, issue we got worried. They know well that it is the Office of the Controller of Budget that determines the money to be allocated to each county and not them. I beg to support.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank you. I also beg to support this Motion on the membership of the CPAIC. I congratulate the membership of the Committee. I thank the RBC together with the leadership of this House because the mood in this House is better than what prevailed when this matter first came up. This is evidence that when we sleep over matters, we are always in a position to resolve and that this House is a serious House as Kenyans expect. The delay in the proper constitution of this Committee has meant that reports from the CPAIC of the last session cannot be considered. When we started this session, there was a Notice of Motion requiring the House to adopt the Report of CPAIC on the affairs of Homa Bay County. The people of Homa Bay have been waiting for it to come before the House so that they establish whether the money that was given to the county has been used properly. At the same time, there are some vultures and hyenas that rotate around the county governments. They have been happy that there has been a vacuum in CPAIC, and therefore, nobody would hold them to account. The reputation of the Senate has taken a beating. You must have seen some editorials talking about the confusion and delay in setting up of the CPAIC. Therefore, it has been a matter of national concern. I congratulate and thank the leadership of the House for getting to a position where we have clarity. As we proceed to elect the Chairperson of the Committee, I urge that democracy prevail because, at the end of the day, all Members of this Senate are qualified. Therefore, I pray that we will not have another circus where there is a reversal of the decision that the Committee has come up with. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have a lot of respect for the CPAIC because it is one of the strongest tolls we have for oversight. I can cite an example that when the CPAIC visited Homa Bay County and for the first time, the county government had to sit face to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Asante sana Bw. Spika wa Muda kunipa fursa hii kuunga mkono Hoja iliyoko mbele yetu. Kwanza kabisa, natoa shukrani za dhati kwa Kiongozi wa Wengi katika Seneti na vile vile Kiongozi wa Wachache katika Seneti kushirikiana pamoja kuunda hii Kamati ambayo ni umuhimu sana. Viongozi wengine kama magavana wamepewa madaraka makubwa. Wametoka katika mipaka ya kuangalia haki na usawa katika kaunti zote za Kenya. Nasema hivyo kwa sababu nikiziangitia Kaunti ya Lamu, shida nyingi zilizoko kwa sasa zinasababishwa na Gavana wetu kwa sababu zamani, ardhi ya Kaunti yetu ilikuwa ya Serikali. Miradi mikubwa mikubwa iliyofanywa na serikali zilizopita ilikuwa halali. Hivi sasa, Gavana wetu anawachochea watu kuingia kwenye mashamba usiku The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Nidhamu, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Nimekuwa nikimsikiliza Seneta wa Lamu ambaye ametoa shutuma katika maongezi yake. Hili ni Jumba la itifaki na lazima uwe na ithibati kwa kila jambo unalosema. Amesema kwamba Gavana wa Lamu alichochea maskwota na kuwaambia wafanye vitu fulani. Ni shutuma kubwa kusema kuwa Gavana anaporomosha maendeleo. Sisi hapa, katika Sheria zetu za Seneti, tunasema kuwa huwezi ukataja mtu kwa namna mbaya bila ya kutoa ushahidi ua kuthibitisha kile unachosema. Kwa hivyo, ningependa ndugu yangu ambaye ni mzee wetu na sote wapwani tunamheshimu, akithibitishe shutuma hizo ama aziondolee mbali. Nimefundishwa Kiswahili na Kiongozi wetu, Sen. Wetangula.
Asante sana Seneta. Ninakushukuru na kukuheshimu vile vile. Mimi najua yale yanayofanyika Lamu kushinda wewe. Hiyo ni thibitisho kamili. Kisha tena---
Nidhamu, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Hata mimi ninaweza kuja hapa na kukuambia kuwa hiki na kile kinafanyika kule Mombasa na gavana anafanya hivi na vile halafu niseme kuwa kwa vile mimi natoka Mombasa na nayajua zaidi kukuliko, hakuna haja kufafanua zaidi. Hizi shutuma kuhusu gavana, zitawekwa kwenye kumbukumbu tunazoita the HANSARD. Huenda zikatumiwa na mtafiti kusema kuwa hili jambo liliongelewa katika Seneti na likathibitishwa. Kwa hivyo, kuna dharura kwa sisi kuthibitisha hizo shutuma ama ziondolewe mbali.
Namshukuru tena. Nataka kumjulisha kwamba kuna mahali panaitwa Manda Settlement Scheme iliyoundwa na serikali zilizopita; kuanzia serikali za marais wastaafu Daniel Arap Moi na Mwai Kibaki. Walipeana hekari kumi kumi na ishirini ishirini kwa watu wengine. Hivi sasa, Gavana wetu amekuwa akibadilisha hiyo na kuanza kuwapa watu robo hekari. Hiyo itachochea watu kupigana. Vile vile, jambo jingine linalofanyika ni kuwa kuna settlement---
Sen. Hassan alitaka kujua ikiwa una thibitisho ama vitu kama vile cheti cha kuonyesha kuwa Gavana alimpa mtu fulani ardhi.
Bw. Spika wa Muda, thibitisho ni yale ambayo ninasema kwa sababu mimi ni Seneta wa Lamu. Ninajua zaidi yale yanayofanyika Lamu kushinda Sen. Hassan wa Mombasa. Sitaki niingile mambo mengi sana lakini nakuhakikishia kuwa imeshawahi kufanyika mara moja. Mabilioni ya pesa imelipwa na Serikali asubuhi na kupotea jioni.
Sisi sote tunajua kuwa wewe ni Seneta wa Lamu. Ili kuthibitisha yale unayosema, unafaa kutuletea ushahidi ama cheti ambacho kitaonyesha kwamba mtu fulani alipewa cheti fulani na Gavana. Hiyo itakuwa thibitisho tosha ya kwamba Gavana alienda kinyume na mkataba. Kama hauna, kulingana na The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Bw. Spika wa Muda, nina uthibitisho kamili. Wiki iliyopita, watu walikuwa na maandamano nami niliunga mkono kuwa maandamano hayo yalikuwa ya haki kwa sababu hawafai kupokonywa kitu ambacho walipewa miaka 15 iliyopita. Vile vile, niliwachukuwa na kuwapeleka kwa Kamishna wa Kaunti. Yeye mwenyewe alithibitisha kuwa karatasi zenyewe zilikuwa wakati wa serikali hiyo.
Je, unazo karatasi unazosema zilipatikana kwa Kamishna wa Kaunti? Kama huna au kama ziko nyumbani, ni lazima kwanza ukubaliane nasi kwamba hujathibitisha hilo kulingana na Sheria zetu. Kwa hivyo, huwezi kumtaja bila thibitisho.
Asante sana, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Nakuheshimu na kukujulisha kuwa nitakuwa hapa miaka karibu 25. Hakuna siku hata moja---
Order, Senator! I will not allow you to go on like that. You should either substantiate or withdraw. You could repeat the same remarks on the day you can substantiate that. As of now, you have to withdraw.
Point of information, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Let me inform the distinguished Senator for Lamu that the rules of the House require you, if you do not have the substantiation on the spot, to promise the House to substantiate at the next sitting which is next week on Tuesday.
Asante, Senate Minority Leader na nitaleta uthibitisho kamili wiki ijayo. La zaidi ni kwamba, Gavana wetu hasaidii kaunti yetu.
wameuliza sehemu ya kujenga kambi yao ili kulinda watu wetu na kudumisha amani katika nchi yetu. Kila mtu anataka amani lakini imepotea siku hizi. Jambo la kushangaza ni kwamba Gavana wetu ameandika barua kukataa ombi hilo kutoka kwa KDF . Nitaleta huo uthibitisho ambao pia umezungumziwa na taifa nzima. Kwa hayo machache, ninaunga mkono Hoja hii.
Ninakubaliana na wewe kwamba kikao kingine ambacho ni wiki ijayo, Jumanne, saa 2.30 p.m. uje na thibitisho zote.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. From the outset, I state that it is regrettable that we are in this stalemate in terms of setting up this Committee. One of the greatest Committees in this House, especially in this period moving towards the elections is this Committee on County Public Accounts and Investments. We ask the team in this Committee that they need to take their mandate more seriously and ensure that they hold many governors and county governments accountable. You will notice that we want to congratulate this Committee. Initially, Members of the County Executive (CECs) and governors refused to appear in this Committee. It took the intervention of this House to go all the way to court to obtain orders favourable to the Committee.Now, it is a settled fact that this Committee can summon governors and anybody to appear before it. We ask them to take their responsibilities seriously The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. I thank the Senate Majority and Senate Minority leaders for having created a middle ground that has enabled us to move forward. As I thank them, I am even more glad to note that Sen. Okong’o is a proposed Member of the reconstituted Committee. To my mind, this removes any hard feelings that our colleague might have had for initially having missed out on the Committee. I just have two comments. The first one is to my colleagues in the Committee – I am still sitting on it – and the second one is to the leaders of political parties. To Members of the Committee, you never know. There can be a temptation that because of whatever consideration like friendship and what have you, you help a certain governor who might have fallen short of glory. As you consider that, the best check is for you to know that sooner or later, your own county will come. So, would you also want a deal to be cut so that your own county is shortchanged by just one individual at the expense of millions of people? It is a very important self-checking tool that one can apply. My final comment is to five leaders of this country namely, His Excellency President Uhuru who leads The National Alliance (TNA), His Excellency Deputy President, William Ruto who leads the United Republican Party (URP); former Hon. Prime Minister who leads ODM; His Excellency former Vice President, Kalonzo Musyoka who leads Wiper Democratic Party and the distinguished Senator for Bungoma, Sen. Wetangula, who leads FORD-Kenya. Why do I state these particular distinctions? It is because they all have governors and because we are approaching the next election, the intention is the mother hen instinct – protectionism. You want to say: “Let me be seen as a strong party leader to protect my governors who found their way into office through my party, FORD-Kenya,” or whatever other party. The temptation might be, because you are very close to us you can easily intimidate us. The Senate Minority Leader is now my party leader. He can very easily want to intimidate me and make it difficult for me to be independent while in that Committee. Please, party leaders, keep out of the Committee on County Public Accounts and Investments for it to be felt and be effective. I support.
That is very good advice.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, let me also take this opportunity to support this Motion from the outset. Even though there was a democratic mishap, the leadership has now come to a consensus on the constitution of this Committee. Secondly, I request that the leadership of this House must consider everybody for the membership of this Committee. Maybe, Members of this Committee should be relieved from all the other Committees so that they can serve this particular Committee because of time. We are running out of time considering that the reports that we have been looking at were of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Sen. Muthama, nafasi ni yako.
Bw. Spika, ninashukuru sana kwa nafasi hii niweze kuunga mkono majina ya waheshimiwa waliopendekezwa kuhudumu katika Kamati hii ya maana sana. Ninamshukuru sana Mheshimiwa (Dr.) Khalwale kwa kazi tangulizi aliyofanya wakati alikuwa Mwenyekiti. Alifanya kazi yake bila uoga wala shauku. Alitumikia taifa na kuleta Miswada hapa Bungeni kuangalia kwamba mali ya umma inatumika vizuri. Sote tunaamini kwamba uzembe na kuharibu mambo katika taifa letu umeenea katika sekta zote. Wakati Rais Uhuru Kenyatta alipozuru nchi ya Uyahudi, alisimama na kuongea na Wakenya huko. Badala ya kuwapa salamu na kuwaeleza jinsi Wakenya tunavyoishi--- hakuweza kupata matamshi hayo. Hayo maneno hakuyapata katika fikira zake. Alienda moja kwa moja na kusema kwamba taifa letu ni kama limebarikiwa kwa baraka za jinsi ya kuiba. Bw. Spika wa Muda, wanaoharibu na kuiba sio wageni kutoka nje. Ni watoto wetu wanaosomeshwa na mali ya umma, wazazi wao ni mali ya umma, wanawasomesha lakini mwisho inakuwa ni patashika. Kwa hivyo, ni matumaini yangu kama kiranja wa bunge ambaye nimesimama hapa, na niliweza kuchangia kuleta majina ya watu watakahudumu katika kamati hii, kwamba watakaokuja watafuata nyayo za Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale kwa sababu sisi hapa tunaweza kupiga kura moja kwamba kuna waliojaribu kumhonga Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale asiweze kuwakashifu lakini alikataa na huo ushaidi upo. Kwa hivyo, wanaoingia sasa waangalie, watunze na wafanye kazi ya wananchi. Bw. Spika wa Muda, kazi na hesabu ya kaunti, ni ya kaunti ya kila mtu hapa. Jambo la kushangaza ni kwamba, nimetembea katika sehemu mbalimbali ya taifa letu na nilianzia kwangu Machakos na nilifikiria gavana wangu ndiye tu akifanya mradi hata kama ni nusu au robo, anabandika kibao na picha yake hapo. Katika hesabu ya pesa za umma zilizotolewa kuenda katika kaunti, hakuna maksio ya kwamba gavana aweke kibao. Magavana wamekosa heshima kwa sababu wantatumia pesa wanazopewa kutumia kwa wananchi kutengeneza vibao kwa zaidi ya Ksh200,000. Hiyo pesa inatumika kufanya siasa zao pia. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
I am told Sen (Prof.) Anyang’- Nyong’o had 14 minutes remaining. If he wishes to continue, we can allow him. In the mean time, let us have the Senate Minority Leader.
Thank you Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Fisheries in this country has been a critical department since independence. Fish farming, fishing and fisheries have always been a peripheral agenda for successive governments. It is now that for the first time, we are having a comprehensive Bill to guide the country on how to manage our fisheries. In the past, we have had very active fishing activities as it is expected along our coastline where we have very strong fishing The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Order! Senator, which appointments are those? Could you substantiate?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, these are appointments of people like Hon. Franklin Bett. It is public knowledge.
You mentioned that seven appointments were made; four from one community and the other three from another community. Could you table the list to confirm the same?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, I can bring the list at the next sitting because it is public knowledge. In fact, it was followed by a further appointment of Mr. Eric Kiraithe, the police officer, to make five appointments from the President’s community. I will bring it on Tuesday. The Standing Order No.94(2) requires that if I am challenged to substantiate, I must produce evidence. What I am wondering is whether the Chair is challenging me or a Member has risen on a point of order to ask me to substantiate?
Just bring the evidence on Tuesday, next week.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I want us to remember procedure that the Speaker does not see. The Speaker is prompted to see. I am worried. Who prompted the Speaker for him to demand that Sen. Wetangula substantiates his claim that appointments were made of seven officers. Five of them were given to one community and another two to another community? The Chair’s demand is fair, but who demanded for that substantiation? If that is the case, do you think that your directive that Sen. Wetangula comes with that list next week still holds?
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, what Standing Order are you referring to?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have not bothered to go through the Standing Orders. However, Standing Order No.1, speaks to traditions, customs and usages. That has been our tradition and custom in this House. It is important The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Indeed, since I entered Parliament in 1993, this is the first time the Chair is requiring me to substantiate. Normally, it is just like when the Chair is seated, he is completely oblivious to matters of quorum unless somebody brings to the attention of the Chair that there is an issue of quorum in the House.
So, we still proceed under Standing Order No.94. You had already made a commitment that you will do that. Standing Order No.92(1) states:- “A Senator shall be responsible for the accuracy of any facts that the Senator alleges to be true and may be required to substantiate any such facts instantly.”
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will do that but I do not know if you seriously want to go that route. I will do that.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, but I will bring much more damaging information than what you are probably seeking to protect. We have the facts.
Order, Senator! The Senator is not protecting. I have just requested you, according to that Standing Order, to proceed and on Tuesday provide that information.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will not only bring the five names, I will bring many more names.
I order you to provide what is required here.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it may probably make the Chair very uncomfortable.
Order, Senator! The Chair is giving directions. So you will provide evidence---
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in any case, there is---
Order, Senator! I am giving you directions.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in Parliament in the 1970s, hon. Jean Marie Seroney, one of the most respected legislators and parliamentarians this country has ever produced, was sitting in the Chair. One of the most distinguished debaters in our history, the late hon. Martin Shikuku, made a statement to the effect that the Government of the day was trying to kill Parliament the way they had killed KANU. A Member challenged him to substantiate. I invite you to go to the annals of history and remember the words of hon. Jean Marie Seroney who happens to come from the county you represent. He ruled that under conventions, precedence, rules of debate and rules of procedure, a Member cannot be required to substantiate the obvious. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, even as I am willing to comply, as a lawyer you know what we call judicial notice, matters of public notoriety and matters of public The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
What is it, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki?
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I have just been notified by Kenyans who are watching the Senate proceedings that something totally peculiar is happening. When I entered the Chamber, I had the privilege to listen to my brother. Is he in order to mislead this country? Is he in order to take advantage of a very solemn responsibility of debating the Fisheries Management and Development Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 18 of 2014) to politically attack communities and people who are not here to defend themselves? In particular, I would request the Chair to direct the Senate Minority Leader either to substantiate that all appointments in Kenya are shared between two communities; which is not true, not even in the last set of appointments he is talking about. Could he substantiate? If he does not, could he withdraw? He is the Senate Minority Leader. The Senate Minority Leader is the leader of Opposition, but that does not mean he should use the privilege on the Floor to politic and mislead Kenyans instead of debating the proposed Fisheries Management and Development Bill. This Bill is trying to correct the anomalies that his colleagues caused this country when they were heading the Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the danger of jumping into a fray without knowing where it started is that, you can end up being bruised badly. I said there is a Board proposed in this Bill. I went further to say in composing such a Board, I want us to move away from what we have seen happening. On Friday and Saturday morning, appointments were carried widely in the media
On a point of information, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. It will help the Senate Majority Leader to note that he stepped in when we were almost at the end of this point of order. It has been well calculated, debated and directions have been issued by the Chair that substantiations are to be made on Tuesday, next week. However, when the Senate Minority Leader rose, he said that since there is a Board to be established by the Bill, he hopes that the new membership will be based on the face of Kenya. Therefore, the Senate Minority Leader need not wait for Tuesday, next week, because there is an example of a Board that was formed called National Oil Board. The members are all qualified. They come from two communities. The first community has The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. I do not think the Chair requires me to bring more information on Tuesday. However, I will comply with the order.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the information by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has just confirmed my hypothesis. I agree with the Senate Minority Leader that because I was not here when the discussion was starting, I stood a big risk of---
Of being bruised!
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, not really of being bruised. We are rarely bruised. We are told long time ago, the chicken used to eat the mongoose and the assumption was that the chicken had teeth. So, what happened is that, one cockerel was late and that he was not there when the decision was made that when they go to the meeting, they should not laugh. So, since it was not there, it ended up crowing. When it crowed. the mongoose discovered that the chicken did not have teeth; that is how the reverse happened. I stood a big risk of doing the wrong thing. However, what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has said in the pretext of providing information has confirmed that, what the Senate Minority Leader and the opposition is trying to do, is to mislead the people of Kenya that by getting a list of either seven Kenyans of a particular Board, then there is diversity. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Constitution and the law - for purposes of record - is clear that the issue of national diversity should be looked at in the context of an entire organisation or arm of government. It does not say every time you release two names, then national diversity would be there. How do you make sure the face is reflected in two names? Therefore, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, is the Senate Minority Leader in order to be assisted by the Senator for Kakamega to mislead Kenyans that by isolating one committee, you can prove that the face of Kenya has not been adhered to? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you have already directed that evidence be provided and this is important because we are also Kenyans. We will want the right thing done by the Government because governments come and go but the country remains. The issue of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, our understanding during this debate was that the Senator for Tharaka-Nithi stood to challenge the information I had given Sen. Wetangula. If he rose to challenge that information, he should have told us what is wrong or that there is a lie in this list of the board of directors of the National Oil Board, and that we are misleading the nation. I have read out actual names of qualified Kenyans from only two communities. What is wrong with it? You should rule him out of order because he has not sufficiently---
We have to make progress on this one. Lastly, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I think I have not been understood by my brother. I was not trying to challenge what he has provided. Of course, he has the list in his mobile phone and I do not know where it is from. However, assuming the list is correct, the National Oil Board is not the only board in the parastatals of Kenya because there are hundreds of parastatals in this country. If you want to talk about the diversity of Kenya, you should take all the over 300 parastatals and look at the constitution of the boards. In totality, you could say that these counties or regions have not been reflected in the appointment. You cannot take one board and use it as a basis of arguing about national diversity. It is in the context of the entire appointments among the parastatals. The same applies to the Judiciary. You could have more women or people from one region in certain offices of ranks. However, the totality of all staff in the Judiciary, for instance, must reflect national diversity, gender and other considerations that are in the Constitution and the law.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, a writer called Molière said most patients do not die from the diseases they suffer from but from complications arising out of the treatment of the diseases they suffer from. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you directed me to confirm appointments that were made on Friday, carried on Saturday and loaded on the appointment of Mr. Kiraithe and I will do that. If it is the desire of my distinguished colleague and the Senate Majority Leader that I bring the totality of appointments, I am very happy to do that. My brother is a professor of law. The National Cohesion and Integration Act says that no single community shall occupy more than one third of any appointments in any particular entity but not the totality of Government. No single community should take more than one-third of any appointments and leadership in any entity. In what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has read here, one community has taken 70 per cent and the other one has taken 30 per cent. We can isolate and bring the list right from the Cabinet Secretaries (CSs) and Principal Secretaries (PSs) down to everywhere. If that is the route that you want to go, we are quite happy to do that.We are ready to let the chips lie where they fall. I can assure you that it will be like the case of a doctor who went to amputate a cancerous leg of a patient and locked himself in the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
Thank you, Leader of Minority.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I am glad that, finally, the Leader of Majority has seen the wisdom of sitting in the Chamber, but unfortunately, my pleasure is quickly eroded by his own confession that he did not come to listen to the debate but because he was provoked by a Kenyan that there was an interesting debate going on in the House. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, may I inform him under parliamentary practice the meaning of “May the mover respond”, means that the mover, throughout the report has been listening to the contributions, now he is responding--- Sisi tukiwafundisha hii vituhamtaki kusikia.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I know the bullfighter Senator for Kakamega is unhappy that I have come back. I was just taking tea in the lounge. Is he in order to mislead Kenyans further by suggesting that we have not followed the debate? In any case, the office of the majority Leader is an institution. This Bill was moved by the Deputy Leader of Majority but we have been taking turns to listen to the debate and follow it. Is he in order to mislead Kenyans that there is a gap in terms of following up the debates of this House and is he in order to pretend that he sits here daily from 2.30 p.m. to 6.30 p.m?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I did not intend to impute any improper motive on the Leader of the Majority who is my leader in this House. But I wanted to remind him that there is meaning to that phrase “May the mover respond”. One of the best leaders of the majority in the history of this country was Martha Karua when she was the leader of Government Business. She painstakingly did her work so much that she ended up having a condition called lumbago. They had to create a special sit for her because she had sat in the Chamber for too long. But that is not important. What is important is that there is a new young Member here, the distinguished Senator from Kericho. Please, do not learn their manners. They have bad manners.
I, therefore, want to support this Bill. I can see I do not have much time, so let me The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
On a point of information, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
Inform me, my able Leader of the Minority.
That point is so important. In the UK, they have a Ministry called the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. Fisheries, is given a critical distinct component in the structure of Government.
Thank you for making me richer in knowledge. If you visit the head office of the State in Boston (USA), you will find that in the office of the governor, they have a big symbol of a fish to demonstrate the seriousness of fish in the lives of the people that are governed by the governor. I support this Motion because there is a deliberate attempt to align the governance of our fishing industry to regional and international instruments. The importance of this alignment is as follows; the regional instrument in the East African Community (EAC), you will find that the easiest thing a Luo, Kuria or Luhya fishermen fishing in Lake Victoria can expect is to be harassed. In Migingo Island, that harassment climaxes into what the Leader of Minority said. What a shame? President Museveni said Migingo is in Kenya but when you drop in the water---
Order Senators. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you will have nine minutes to contribute to this Bill the next time it appears on the Order Paper. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.
It is now 6. 30 p.m, time to interrupt the business of the Senate. The Senate stands adjourned until Tuesday, 22nd March, 2016 at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate.