Hon. Senators, I wish to recognise the presence of visiting students and coordinators from Universidad Pontificia Comillas, Madrid, Spain who are in Kenya for three weeks on a programme dubbed ‘Inside Kenya’ which is hosted by Hekima Institute of Peace Studies and International Relations (HIPSIR). They are seated at the Speaker’s Gallery and they are as follows:- Mr. Carlos Martinez Coordinator Ms. Angela De Hoyos Coordinator Ms. Maria Perez Student Ms. Elena Fatou Student Ms. Ingrid Garcia Student Ms. Raquel Fernandez Student Ms. Sonia Leon Student Ms. Laura Garcia Student Ms. Macarena Mestanza Student Ms. Lucia Martin Student Ms. Laura Morillas Student Ms. Angela Sevillano Student Ms. LinseyAgai Coordinator, Kenya In our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to our Parliament, I wish to extend a warm welcome to them and, on your behalf and on my own behalf, I wish to wish them a fruitful visit. Thank you. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. May I also extend a warm welcome to the students and coordinators from Madrid in Spain. Welcome to Kenya. It is a beautiful country as you might have already found out. I think the sort of engagement you are getting into is key to us. We appreciate that you have been in touch with HIPSIR and that you are specifically targeting areas of peace studies. As you might know, we are always looking for that sort of equilibrium and working hard towards it in this country. I hope that during your interaction with the people that you are going to talk with, you will pass some information and share experiences of the two countries. Karibuni Kenya and enjoy yourselves. We appreciate that you have also come to the Senate of Kenya to see how we conduct our deliberation.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also join you and the House in welcoming the visiting students and their leader and to encourage them to feel at home in this “Upper House” of Parliament of the Republic of Kenya. Although Spain is in Europe, it is also a young democracy like us having come to democracy when my good friend Felipe Gonzalez swept to power sometime back. I appreciate the Spanish football and I am a fun of Barcelona Football Club which we cherish very much in this country. We want to see that emerging democracies in developed regions can share experiences and good practices with us to see that democracy becomes the norm rather than the exception. I also salute HIPSIR that we have been working with very closely as a Parliament. As they say in Spain, muchos gracias.
Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also wish to welcome them as you have done. I am delighted because I can see that all of them are ladies except one. I know those are very serious people and they are the future Prime Ministers and Presidents of that Republic. I wish you well and I hope you shall learn from the best that you can get. I am corrected that you do not have a President but a Kingdom but I know you will be the leaders of whichever position you have. Welcome, feel at home and I hope we shall network the next time we join you in your country.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. May I also join you in congratulating the delegation from Spain. I notice that these are young people who have come to our country to study our political democracy. I want to assure you that the democracy in Kenya is extremely vibrant. We have two major political parties namely the Jubilee Party and the Coalition for Reforms and Democracy (CORD) that are very strong coalitions. The political parties are very vibrant which is clearly seen in the exchanges in this House. In the Senate, being the “Upper House”, we take a bipartisan stand on issues which we come across, especially issues that are of national importance. I hope you are going to learn our sense of democracy and how we practice it. I also want to congratulate HIPSIR for the good work that they are doing. We want them to also ensure that they do an exchange program for our African students to other European countries so that they can also learn similar practices. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mine is to welcome the students from that one beautiful school whose name I have just forgotten because it is too difficult The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order Senator. They may not go to Sweden because they have not come from there. Your prayers have been answered ab initio.
Oh! They are from Spain. I hope that some of you will remain behind. You should also add the number of males because I can see that you only have one male around you. Thank you very much for coming. This is a very generous country.
We will finally hear from Sen. Karaba, the Chairman of the Education Committee.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for allowing the Chairman of the Education Committee to contribute and welcome my colleagues, friends and students from Spain. Spain is a very significant country in this world because without Spain we would not be talking about the partition and scramble for Africa. It is Spain which has facilitated and pioneered the struggle and the discovery of the continent. Initially, it was supposed to be one continent called Europa and it is Spain which made sure that they discovered Africa, America and so forth. Through Christopher Columbus, we salute Spain. When you get to Candice which is a Port of Spain, greet the great sailors of this world. Thank you.
I am sure you have not been to that Port but you know it through your Geography.
I know it, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Thursday, 21st July, 2016:- The Teachers’ Service Commission Strategic Plan for the period 2015-2019.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, two months ago, I sought a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Is that the same one you asked for on Tuesday?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What were my directions?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, you never gave any directions because we had a lot of business in the House.
Sen. Njoroge, we will check the particulars of the Statement and then come back to you. Let us hear Sen. Mutahi Kagwe. MEASURES TO SAFEGUARD KENYA’S DUTY FREE QUOTA ACCESS TO THE EU
Mr. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.45(2)(b) I rise to seek a statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget. In the Statement, the Chairperson should explain the following:- (1) Given that the European Union (EU) deadline of 1st October, 2016 as the date upon which the Economic Partnership Agreement (EPA) ought to have been signed and ratified, what are Kenya’s options to safeguard the duty-free quota free market access to the EU? (2) Are the discussions going on at the United National Conference on Trade and Development 2014 (UNCTAD 14) in Kenya likely to help in any way to extend the 1st October, 2016 deadline? (3) In the event of the loss of duty-free quota free market access, what would be the impact on exporters of flowers, tea, coffee and other commodities and how can we mitigate these effects? (4) What are the possible options that might be pursued by Kenya and the East African Community (EAC) in order to safeguard the duty free quota market access to the EU market and avoid trade disruptions? (5) What are we doing as a country, given the reluctance of the EAC partner States which are still trying to maintain cohesion in the region and in our customs union?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to ride on that wonderful request by the distinguished Senator for Nyeri. In responding to that Statement, the Chairperson should tell the House and the country:- (1) What are the effects and advantages or possible disadvantages arising from the BREXIT vote in the United Kingdom (UK) that is taking the UK out of the EU knowing that the UK is Kenya’s No.2 trading partner? (2) What are the effects of Kenya negotiating with the EU under the umbrella of the EAC when our partner States; Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi and Tanzania are classified as LDCs and Kenya is not. How would an eventual agreement impact on Kenya being in the same bracket with LDC countries? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Chairperson, that is a full plate for you but very significant too.
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is a very important Statement sought by the Senators. The question on the EPA has been a vexing one particularly in the context of the EAC because agreements are now supposed to be signed as East African Corporation. That has been a challenge because some of the countries like Tanzania and Burundi have not been very cooperative. Therefore, due to the importance of this, we will need a bit of time. I seek the indulgence of the Senator to respond by Thursday next week. I also urge the Clerks to expedite the dispatch of the letter so that by Thursday before the House goes on recess we can respond to it.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the urgency of this matter, we must appreciate what happened in 2014 when there was a delay in the signing of the agreement between ourselves and the EU. Famers all over the country, especially flower farmers, suffered and went through a very difficult period. Now, given the importance of this issue and the ongoing discussions on this matter, as we speak just across the road, the chairman should bring the Statement as quickly as possible, possibly on Tuesday. Alternatively he can invite the Cabinet Secretary (CS) concerned into the House as a matter of urgency so that she can respond to these issues.
Chairperson, give us your thoughts before I dispose the matter.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is one of the subjects being discussed at the UNCTAD. However, it is appropriate to get a comprehensive report which would require our committee to sit with the relevant CS and interrogate this matter properly and give a very informed response on the matter.
Order, Chairperson! We need a comprehensive response. However a comprehensive response is not equated to more time. These are maters that the Ministry has been dealing with and have been around. At the time of EAC, Kenya allowed commodities form other countries without enforcing the tariffs for five good years. It has a real direct bearing on this. You have Friday and Monday which are working days. I direct that you bring the Statement to the House on Tuesday. The country is anxious and waiting for directions. Let us move on. OPERATIONS OF THE WOMEN ENTERPRISE FUND
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.45(2)(b) to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget on the operations the Women Enterprise Fund. In the Statement, I seek the following information:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
What is it, Sen. Wetangula, Leader of the Minority?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in addition to what the distinguished Senator for Kericho has asked, will the Chairperson also tell the House and the country:- (1) How many individual women and women groups have been foreclosed in the last two years? “Foreclosure” means failing to pay the loans and being auctioned. I have received many cases of women who have been lured into borrowing money and when things fail to work, they are foreclosed all over the country. It is not limited to one place. (2) Is there any mitigation that the Government is taking to help these women? Sometimes it is not their fault. They put money in farming and the rains fail. They also put money in trade, robbers come. They put money in something else, nothing works!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, further to that very important question raised by the distinguished Senator for Kericho County, I would like to know how much money has been disbursed to Kisii County, how many groups of women were beneficiaries, were there any defaulters and what were the reasons.
Order, Sen. Ongera! You are being repetitive. Te question was per county, unless Kisii is not listed as a county in this Republic.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand corrected. I am sorry I did not hear that it was per county. If that is the case then that is in order.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, noting that we are in devolution now, where we have elected Members of the County Assemblies (MCAs), Members of the National Assembly, Women Representatives, Governors and Senators, could the Chairperson table a document that shows how these respective offices get to know how many women groups in their respective constituencies have benefitted per year?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Chairperson also explain to this House the interest rates that are charged to those loans and whether they are commercial or interest rates given strictly by the Government. If, indeed, they are lent by the banks, what percentage of the interest rates charged to the women groups is kept by the banks, which banks and how much of it is going back to the Government?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as the Chairperson responds to the statement, I would also like to seek a rider. I know that various counties have developed similar The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wonder whether from the source where the Women Fund was mooted, we can go back and moot one for men so that we can have a men fund as well. Very many men are languishing in poverty.
Order, Sen. Karaba! I am not sure of what to make of that addition. We are dealing with the Women Enterprise Fund. Therefore, anything to do with men fund is irrelevant. However, I will leave it to the Committee to consider.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also wish to request the Chair to inform the country and the House the banks that are used to disburse the funds.
Chairperson, please respond.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Women Enterprise Fund was set up by Parliament and is funded from the national revenue. A couple of the questions that have been sought are readily available on the website of the Fund. The details of the counties as well as details of some of the things that have been requested are in the annual reports that are submitted to both Houses of Parliament. Nonetheless, I will seek the indulgence of the House to give response in two weeks because of the many interventions especially on the interest rates---
Order, Chairperson! If you had asked for the two weeks immediately, I would have been sympathetic. However, given the preface, the information is readily available on the website, you do not require two weeks. I will give you one week. You will give a response on Thursday next week.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the meantime, I urge Members to look for some of the basic information which is available on the website of the Fund.
Chairperson, I hope that you will also attempt to get the response for the House.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join you in welcoming these pupils. I congratulate the school management and the head teacher for having considered bringing The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Asante sana, Bw. Spika. Ninachukua fursa hii pia kuwakaribisha wanafunzi hawa. Nilipata motisha ya kuwa Mbunge wakati nilitembelea Bunge nilipokuwa katika shule ya msingi. Wanafunzi hawa pia wanaweza kukalia viti tunavyokalia leo. Wasichana na wavulana wote wana huo uwezo. Ninawakaribisha katika Bunge la Seneti nikiwahimiza waige yale mazuri watakayoona hapa. Yale mabaya wayaache yatokomee papa hapa.
Sen. Wangari, kwani kuna mabaya yapi?
Let us proceed to the statements to be issued. However, before we move to that, there was a Statement that was requested by Sen. Njoroge. I can see the Vice- Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations present. Do you have a response to Sen. Njoroge’s request for a Statement on the police recruitment?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have the response ready. If you allow me to issue, I can do the same.
Did you get the response today?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have been having it for the last two months.
Please, proceed. INCLUSION OF RELEVANT OFFICES IN POLICE RECRUITMENT EXERCISE
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is in response to a statement by Sen. Njoroge. I believe that he went through the statement a while ago. In response, I would like to say that Article 246(3)(a) of the Constitution states that:- “(3) The Commission shall— ( a ) recruit and appoint persons to hold or act in offices in the service, confirm appointments and determine promotions and transfers within the National Police Service” Recruitment is, therefore, a function of the National Police Service Commission (NPSC). Due to the enormity and logistics that are associated with the recruitment exercise, the NPSC pursuant to Section 13(i) of the National Police Service Commission Act established the national police service recruitment committee which was chaired by a The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
What is it, Sen. M. Kajwang? Do you want to seek clarifications?
Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Let us allow Sen. Njoroge first, and then I will get back to you. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, from the statement, it is very clear that there were anomalies in the last police recruitment. There were complaints about the names which were presented to the IG after successful recruitment.
Sen. Njoroge, please seek clarification. We all heard the statement.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, for how long will we wait for the response from the Commission regarding publication of the names of the successful candidates? This was supposed to be done earlier before the candidates reported to college. That is the requirement. The excuse that money was not available is not binding. They should have waited for availability of the money then published the names. That is why we have complaints which cannot be addressed because we cannot see the names.
Order, Senator. Your clarification is very adequate. You do not need to fatten it. Proceed, Sen. M. Kajwang.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank the Chairperson for the detailed response. However, I would like to seek clarification on two issues. The Chairperson has indicated that the Commission has received complaints regarding the recruitment exercise. I would like to find out how many of the complaints relate to bribery or corruption. I have received complaints from young men and women who attempted to join the police force through this recruitment and it was clearly indicated to them that if they did not have Kshs200,000, they would not join the police force. I would also like the Chairperson to clarify to this House: Does the police service have an ombudsman, an office or centre where some of these complaints can be directed to? When they are brought to me as a Senator, all I can do is bring them to the Floor of this House. Is there an ombudsman or a point where young people who have been asked to bribe to get into the police service can be sorted out? Finally, we will look at the Recruitment Guidelines which the Chairperson has tabled. Every time recruitment to the police service or the armed forces is done, young men and women are asked to run, jump, undress, flash their teeth and do some other things that the colonial police used to do. In this modern world, at what point will be police service review their recruitment guidelines so that they recruit people on the basis of modern competencies not on the basis of the colour of their teeth? There are some young men and women who grow up in areas where the water is contaminated. As a result, their teeth get discoloured. They cannot join the police service because of archaic recruitment guidelines. When will these issues ever be addressed?
I cannot help but agree more. There are things that you can do something about while there are those that are as they are. Why should you discriminate on the basis of where I come from?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the police service in this country has been rated the most corrupt, year in year out. Whenever such issues arise, it takes long to get the grievances of individuals, including would-be, recruits to be addressed. The Chairperson has talked about publishing names, months after the recruitment. Will that help? It will not. There should be internal control mechanisms. The police talk about reforms. They have desks for complaints. Is there a shorter way in which this matter The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, over a week ago, one police man went berserk and killed his colleagues in Kapenguria Police Headquarters. It is alleged that he was an Al Shabaab sympathizer. He has served for two years in the police service. Could the Chairperson tell us what stringent criteria have been put in place to identify apriori these Kenyans that are already in these vices so that they do not find themselves in the police service? They could be more dangerous in future.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, some of the conditions to be considered before you are recruited to the police force are archaic in the sense that they do not seem to consider Africans as potential soldiers. Imagine when somebody is said to be 5 feet 8 inches tall. What happens to the Taita who are about four or five feet tall? We also recruit police long after the students have left school when they have already “tasted” so many things such as drugs. Why do we not consider recruitment to the police force immediately the students leave Form Four, by which time they will not be polluted and they will be keen and will have known what it means to be patriotic soldiers. Lastly, why do we not recruit the police from the National Youth Service as a way of commendation to those youth who have done very well in carrying out national tasks instead of having direct recruitment as it is now done?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the police force in this country is enjoying a very dirty image. The other day, the distinguished Senator for Nyeri, talked about the manner of training and the need for continuous training to keep the police force abreast with the changing circumstances under which they operate. You saw what happened in Kapenguria last week. Yesterday, there was a story of a policeman who dressed himself in a gunny bag and stood outside a police station in Langata the whole day, demanding to have audience with the Inspector-General (IG) of Police. As a policeman, I am sure he knows where the office of the IG is; it is not at the Langata Police Station. Could the chairman tell the country what we are going to do to rationalize and improve the process of recruitment into the police, including removing the bottlenecks that the distinguished Senator for Homa Bay has cited? Mr. Speaker, Sir, last year in Kisii County, Sen. Obure and Sen. Ong’era can bear me witness, a man collapsed and died because he sold land and bribed the recruitment officers with Kshs300,000, to recruit his son, but when he went to Kiganjo, he was not on the list. He sold the family possession, collapsed and died. How are we going to weed out this cutting of corners, corruption and so on? What happens is that when a family buys a position for the son to join the police, he is instructed to be corrupt in order to bring back the family land that was sold. They, therefore, think that is a way of life.
The Vice- Chairperson. Sen. Adan Adan.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Statement was ready from May, 11th, 2016. The fault, therefore, is not with the Committee or with the National Police Service The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Vice-chairperson. Why did you not process the Statement?
Mr. Speaker Sir, I have been having this Statement from 16th, May. Every time we wanted to issue it, Sen. Njoroge was not in the House. That is why it was delayed. I had the Statement from 11th May and I gave him the copy.
When you absolve the Committee and the Ministry, then you should also allocate blame somewhere. Proceed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would ask the NPSC to publish the names of those who were recruited as quickly as possible whether it is expensive or not. I do not know who will give direction in this case because I am hearing murmurs from both sides. The question is why the names have not been published. This is a matter which I will discuss with the NPSC and see a possible way of ensuring that the list has reached the public. I believe there is a complaints office---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. Njoroge?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the publishing of the names was supposed to be done before the recruits joined the college, which is procedure. It was supposed to be done in one of the dailies as a requirement. It lacks any merit for the Vice-Chairperson to say that it is late. There are those complaints which the NPSC has confirmed receiving; that some names were omitted when the recruitment was concluded after they had already succeeded at the grassroots.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, my view is that this is a very important issue that we are canvassing here. It cuts across the 47 counties. What Sen. Wetangula said is true. Those cases are there and there is rampant corruption in the recruitment. We have seen policemen being vetted and dragged through the mud and yet nothing comes out of it. Why can the relevant Committee of the Senate not summon the NPSC and the IG and whoever is responsible for recruitment to come here and tell us all those issues; why it is happening, why every time there is a recruitment people lose their lives and are misused? In the olden days, for example, in Murang’a where I come from, we had very brown teeth due to the high level of fluoride in water. If that is a reason to disqualify a person from joining the police force, it is ridiculous. We may canvass these issues here and not get the answer. The Vice-Chairperson may not have the answer. Why can the Chair not direct that the relevant government officers come here and give us the answers, once and for all?
What is it Sen. Billow? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not going to talk about the teeth. Obviously, everyone who goes to a police station and expects to see a smiling policeman--- I would think in the context of publishing 10,000 names on dailies. As a House, we need to look at alternatives like putting the names on the police website rather than---
It is not about villagers but the leaders who represent those villagers should go through the website to see whether their people are there. How many villagers access the website? I think it is relevant.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. Bule? Remember the Vice-Chair has only responded to one issue you had previously raised.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issue of security is one that needs a lot of care and looking into. The issue of police recruitment has become a matter which is not well addressed every now and then. If the police officer is recruited through corruption, is the product of discrimination and pervasiveness, there is no day we will get what we expected from the police---
Order, Sen. Bule. This is Statement Hour.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me come to the point of what I am trying to say. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are no longer in times where the police officers were handpicked or recruited through remote control from the top. We need to have a system where the locals identify the right people who fit because the communities living in the given area were not given the opportunity to say who deserved to be employed or who has the---
Order, Sen. Bule, just conclude there.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Listening to the Deputy Speaker’s proposal, I tend to think that the questions we have raised may not be sufficiently addressed by the Vice Chair. I tend to think so because publicizing their names in the dailies will not be a solution. The reason for us to raise all this is to---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could I finish?
Order, you cannot just finish the way you want.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, just allow me to finish. If, getting the entire group to be mentioned will be a solution for the future, can we go that route?
Order, Members, I really thought that the Senator for Murang’a spoke out of turn. You sought clarifications and you should let the Vice Chair respond to them then you will reach the verdict on the basis of the responses. You are now taking a dangerous path of having no faith in your own committees. That should come after the full submissions have been responded to by the Chair, then we will know what has been satisfied and what has not.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I know you have already indicated your thinking and direction but I first wish to thank Sen. Njoroge for bringing the question. However, the supplementary The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Sen. Wetangula. I have not disposed of this matter. I have not given any direction including my own thinking. I just said that; in terms of procedure a statement was made by the Vice Chair and clarifications were sought by Members. The Vice Chair has only responded to one of those clarifications sought. Why do we not allow her to respond to as many as possible, then on the basis of the responses, we can consider what the Senator for Murang’a has stated, unless we want to say that as a House, we do not even care what the committee’s thinking might be? We all care about and appreciate our committees because some of you are Members. So, let her respond and then on the basis of the response, we can determine that we need more. We have always done that and it will not be the first time. Vice Chair?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for your ruling. I think I responded to the issue of publication of names. I believe this question was asked earlier before names were out. At the moment, this has been overtaken by events. If it is really necessary for Sen. Njoroge to see the list, we can request the Ministry to publish the list of all those who have been recruited. Nevertheless, this can be an avenue that we could use in future to make sure that the names are out before they are admitted. Secondly, I am sure there is a complaints office within the National Police Service Commission (NPSC). That is why I have indicated in the Statement that they have received several complaints regarding the recruitment that took place. However, I will not be able to answer how many complaints they have received and how they have responded to. This is a matter I still have to verify with the NPSC and come back with an answer on that.
Order, Vice Chair, neither can you confirm there is a complaints office because Sen. M. Kajwang’s clarification was actually on an ombudsman which is very necessary for the police, just like the Judiciary has one.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me confirm that I am not sure there is an ombudsman with the NPSC. I know there is the Ombudsman Office which takes care of all the complaints regarding the acts of public offices and public officers in this country. That is what I can confirm but I am not sure about whether the police have an office for that. If I am not wrong, the guidelines and regulations for the recruitment were reviewed by the NPSC in March 2016 but they had also been done in 2015. This was brought to the attention of the country, including the Senate, so that people give their input in terms of how they need to change this or that. We have a guideline that is being The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
This matter is expended. Therefore, let us wait for the next course of action.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My proposal to the Vice Chair is that when Mr. Kavuludi comes, we should also discuss the matter of background checks on the recruitment process, given the set of individuals who are now threatening police forces and the possibility of even recruiting radicalised individuals.
Order Sen. Kagwe! I am afraid there is nothing new there. All you needed was to listen to your good neighbour, the Senator for West Pokot County; he said as much. He even dramatized it better given the incident of last week in his county.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Sen. Elachi, that must be very new or else I will stop you dead in your tracks.
Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mine is just to remind the Chair about a month ago, I requested for a statement to understand why, for the last two to three years, the Administration Police (AP) have not been promoted. If that is answered, it will divide the country and the conflicts that we have been seeing in between the “blue force” and the APs.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have Sen. Elachi’s answer but have we really concluded on the earlier statement? I think we have not. May be I would have to request the Inspector-General of Police and his team to come next week before we go for a recess, if that is agreeable.
That is so directed. Members, we are not doing well with time. Statement 2(a), since the Member is not here, we will push it to Tuesday next week. FINANCING OF THE JARAMOGI OGINGA ODINGA HOSPITAL
Statement 2 (b), the Member is not here as well. Statement 2(c)?
I am here Mr. Speaker, Sir. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
You need to sit where we know you are usually located. Statement (d)? Sen. Adan, this is the last time you are responding on behalf of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations.
Mine is statement (c) Mr. Speaker, Sir. Statement (b) is for the Health Committee.
What about statement (d)? I am actually at statement (d). DISAPPEARANCE AND BRUTAL MURDER OF CHILDREN IN CHESUE VILLAGE, NANDI HILLS
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not have statement (d) and I have discussed with Sen. Sang. I have spoken to the Cabinet Secretary (CS) and the Principle Secretary (PS) this morning and up to now I do not have the answer.
Order! If you have discussed with the Senator and he has no objection, we do not want to know the details. Sen. Sang, just confirm.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I cannot confirm because I just asked Sen. Adan if she had a written statement and she told me she does not have it but that she was going to give proper explanations as to why she does not have the statement on the Floor. I am expecting to hear that from her.
But you heard her say “discussed”. That does not amount a discussion.
She just mentioned to me, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is not fair for Sen. Sang to deny that I discussed with him and I had even shown him the message that I had written to the Principle Secretary telling him that I have tried my best. Nevertheless, I will request Sen. Sang to give us some time until next week so that we can respond to this statement.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, while I appreciate the predicament committee chairs find themselves in; yesterday, yourself, Sen. Adan, myself and others were attending a particular function and I saw Sen. Adan engaged with the Cabinet Secretary in-charge of Interior and National Coordination and I hoped that this being an urgent matter, she would have pointed out that there are certain standing statements.
I appreciate but I think this is an urgent matter. If you look at the question, this is about the disappearances of children aged between 8 years and 16 years. We are getting unconfirmed information that one of the girls who disappeared is somewhere that the security forces are trying to locate. We understand that she is safe but that kind of information is what we need. You can imagine the agony that families are going through. Three weeks down the line and there is no official information from the Government. The Chairperson has an opportunity to interact with the officer in charge. This is an urgent The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me confirm to the House that, first, it is very wrong for Sen. Sang to say that I had a discussion with the Cabinet Secretary yesterday. I have not even met him but I just saw him at the airport. Having said that, I know this is a very sensitive matter---
It depends on how you saw him.
I just saw him from far, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Let me confirm to him that I spoke to the Cabinet Secretary and the Permanent Secretary this morning stressing the urgency of this matter but up to now I have not received the response. I am kindly requesting Sen. Sang to give us up to next week to get this answer from the Ministry.
Order, Senators. This is a very grave matter. I direct the Committee to issue this statement on Tuesday. Failure to do so, serious sanctions will be made against the Committee and the Cabinet Secretary with a view to considering them as conspirators in the disappearing act. We are dealing with people who have already disappeared; they could have been abducted and killed. That should really worry us. What is it, Sen. Kembi-Gitura?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I agree with your sanctioned ruling but some of us are Members of the Committee and we do not know on what basis you would sanction us on the issue. I think it has to be clear that it has to be the Chairperson and not the Committee because I sit in that committee and I am not culpable. So, I think it is good to correct it for HANSARD purposes.
I was informed--- on the time of the abortive coup of 1982, that you were accused of failing to prevent the coup. Since you have put out the case, we will consider every case at that particular time on its own merit.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree with the Senator for Murang’a County. Personally, I have walked to these offices to try and get answers from relevant ministries but it is important for Members also to understand the efforts we are putting in as a Committee because we have made our efforts. Those who should be held responsible are the relevant officers. We will try our best as a Committee to answer---
Let me help you. One way to discharge your obligation is to bring a Censure Motion on the responsible officers. That way, you will confirm to the House that you did your best because we employ civil servants for purpose of delivering and some matters are very grave. They need to be attended to like yesterday. I will need to refer to Article 47 of the Constitution on Administrative Action; they must be efficient, expedient and timely. We do not want to be reading post-mortems. Let us save others if they can still be found. Order, Members! Senate Majority Leader! Before Sen. Wetangula gives the Business of the Senate for the week, let us allow Sen. Sijeny on Statement 2(b). The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I sort for this Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Health on 16th June, 2016. He had been compelled to issue the Statement today, but I neither see him nor the Vice Chairperson of the Committee. However, the Senate Majority Whip who had given the undertaking is present. This is an urgent issue.
Yes, I recall. Sen. Elachi.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I briefed the acting Chairperson of the Committee on Health, because the Chairperson has not been in the House for a while and the Vice Chairperson is also not around. I thought that Sen. (Dr.) Machage would have helped at that time, but he is also not in the House. I would like to ask Sen. Sijeny to give us up to Tuesday. It means that I will have to go for the statement myself and deliver it next Tuesday.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is a very serious matter. We are talking about the health of women. As we know, quite a number of women in these hospitals share beds. This is a serious matter and I feel that this Committee is not taking it seriously. I request you to rule on this matter, because it is not the first time that we are requesting for this Statement. Sen. Sijeny requested for it but no answer came. In fact, at that time, if you recall, there was not even one Member of that Committee in the House and that is why the Majority Whip made that undertaking. We seek your direction on this matter.
Hon. Members, let us give the Whip up to Tuesday. Sen. Ong’era, I will revisit your request on Tuesday. I would like to remind Sen. Elachi that there is something called responsibility and collective responsibility, as used to be said. You were given this mandate by the virtue of the office that you are holding. It was up to you, on behalf of the House, to ensure that the Chairperson, Vice Chairperson or any Member of the Committee delivers the Statement. For you to be reminded, it is just falling into the same problem with the ones that you are accusing of being absent. You should have been proactive. Now that you have only a weekend, we will confirm your position by Tuesday. Let us now move to the Statement on the Business of the Senate for the coming week by the Senate Minority Leader.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, before I do that, you directed very firmly that the Statement I sought on the situation in South Sudan be issued yesterday or latest today. Sen. Adan had indicated to me that she was awaiting the Statement. I do not know what direction you would give. I know that we have run dangerously out of time.
Sen. Adan, do you have the Statement?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have just received the Statement. If you can allow me to issue it, that is fine, but Sen. Wetangula has not seen it. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. Wetangula, I plead with you, in the interest of time and also for the subject to be interrogated better, that we put it on the Order Paper on Tuesday. You will have looked at the document and can do a better job.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I oblige. It will be a good idea if we start with it on Tuesday because of the interest that that matter attracted. In fact, this morning I had a meeting with the Assistant Secretary of State for the United States of America (USA) and half the time we discussed about the situation in South Sudan. BUSINESS FOR THE WEEK COMMENCING TUESDAY, 26THJULY, 2016 Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to issue the following Statement under Standing Order 45. The Senate Business Committee (SBC) will meet on Tuesday 26th July, 2016, at 12.30 p.m. to schedule the business of the Senate for the week. Subject to further directions by the SBC, the Senate will continue with the Business that will not be concluded in today’s Order Paper, focusing on Bills at the Committee of the Whole Stage. On Wednesday, the Senate will continue with the business not concluded during the Tuesday Sitting. In addition, the following Bills will be scheduled for the Committee of the Whole:- 1. The Alcoholic Drinks Control (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.5 of 2014). 2. The Persons With Disabilities (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.43 of 2013). 3. The County Statutory Instruments Bill (Senate Bill No.10 of 2015). 4. The Micro and Small Enterprise (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.12 of 2015. 5. The Persons With Disabilities (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.1 of 2015). 6. The Basic Education (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly No.38 of 2014). 7. The Agriculture, Fisheries and Food authority (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly No.17 of 2015). 8. The Medical Practitioners and Dentists (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.2 of 2016). The Senate will also consider any other business scheduled by the SBC. On Thursday, 28th July, 2016, the Senate will consider Bills at Second Reading, deliberate on Motions and any other business scheduled by the SBC. Let me take this opportunity to notify the Senate that in accordance with our Calendar, the Senate is scheduled to proceed on recess on Thursday, 28th July, 2016 until 13th September, 2016. I hereby lay the Statement on the Table.
Hon. Members, that is the end of Order No.7. We will skip Order No.8 and 9 and proceed with Order No.10 and 11, which is the Committee of the Whole. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Hon. Senators, we are in the Committee of the Whole to consider The Employment (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.1 of 2015).
Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting clause 2 and substituting therefor the following new clause- Insertion of new section 29A The principal Act is amended by inserting the following new section immediately after section 29- Preadoption leave 29A. (1) Where pursuant to section 157 of the Children Act, a child is to be placed in the continuous care and control of an applicant who is an employee under this Act- (a) the employee shall be entitled to three consecutive months pre-adoption leave with full pay from the date of the placement of the child; (b) in the case of a female employee who is married, the employee shall be entitled to three consecutive months pre-adoption leave with full pay from the date of the placement of the child; and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
The division will be at the end.
Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after clause1- Amendment to section 2 of cap. 141
Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, New Clause 1A be read a Second Time.
Sen. Wangari, you do not want to justify anything or it is okay with you?
Mr. Chairman, Sir, the essence of this first amendment is to include adoptive leave prior to the adoption process itself. The time that a mother or an adoptee requires, mostly is before the order is given. Initially, the Bill had anticipated a maternity and paternity leave after the adoption, but in the public participation, we were able to gather that the time that is required is before. We are now amending it to make The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Chairman, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.139, I beg to move that the Committee reports progress on its consideration of The Employment (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.1 of 2015) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.
Next Order. THE COUNTY LIBRARY SERVICES BILL (SENATE BILL NO. 6 OF 2015)
Sen. Gwendo: Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 2 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new definition immediately after the definition of the term “county executive committee member”- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered The Employment (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.1 of 2015) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the Senate do agree with the Committee in the said Report.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered The County Library Services Bill (Senate Bill No.6 of 2015) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the Senate do agree with the Committee in the said Report.
Who was on the Floor? Sen. Wangari, you have the Floor.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I congratulate the Mover of the Bill, Sen. Sijeny. This Bill talks to the Constitution that Kenyans voted for overwhelmingly in 2010. Under Article 81 of the Constitution on the general principles of the electoral system, there is a clear provision, under (b), on how the electoral system should be. It says:- “The electoral system shall comply with the following principles- (b) not more than two-thirds of the members of elective public bodies shall be of the same gender.” The issue of the gender parity and equality in this country in terms of leadership has come a long way. We have graduated from a moment when Parliament had only one, three or ten women. Today, we boast of improved numbers. In fact, in the National Assembly we have 68 women Members, inclusive of the 47 in the affirmative seats. In the Senate, we have 18 women out of the 67 Members. This also extends to the county assemblies. We are not lucky to have elected many women Members of the County Assemblies (MCAs). The current women membership in the county assemblies is about 4 per cent. Most of them were ‘gender top-ups,’as stipulated in Article 177 of the Constitution. This has both the good and the bad, even was we boast of these numbers. In the 10th Parliament, out of the 210 constituencies, there were 18 women Members. That was a better percentage compared to today, when we have 290 constituencies, yet we only speak of 16 elected women. Therefore we are moving two steps forward and two steps backwards; the gains are not absolute. We have had challenges as demonstrated in the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this Bill. I wish to congratulate and thank the Mover of the Bill, Sen. Sijeny. We are aware that many attempts have been made to deal with the issues that Sen. Sijeny has brought before this House. Many of them have not succeeded partly because of the jingoism that many political leaders in this country have and partly because of the attitudes that we have towards the implementation of the new Constitution. I support this Bill for two reasons; the first one is because the Constitution requires that in elective positions, not more than two-thirds shall be of one gender. When we got the Constitution we swore an oath to defend and protect it. Therefore, if the Constitution requires it, it is upon us to ensure that we give effect to it. Secondly, I support this Bill because it is the right thing to do. In a society like ours where women have always been categorized alongside children and their place considered the kitchen and other peripheral areas of the homestead, it has not been very easy for our women to rise to attain positions of leadership as opposed to men. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there are still very many cultures in this country where even for a woman to stand before men and seek political positions is still being frowned upon. In fact, many women will be called prostitutes when they are seen running around going to meetings in the night and hobnobbing with men and other normal citizens in the name of looking for votes. Therefore, it is right for us to provide the “crate” that Sen. Wangari talked about. If we want to treat everyone on equal terms in society, that means that women will definitely struggle to keep up with men. That is why there needs to be some equity. We need to provide women with some soft landing and certain advantages so that they are able to overcome the historical injustices that they have suffered in the past. In the county assemblies, we have already attempted to cure this issue. In my county, Homa Bay, only one woman was elected competitively out of the 40 wards. One out of 40 could easily be 2.5 per cent. That is very far off the mark of ensuring that not more than two thirds should be of the same gender. As a result, we have had a number of nominated women Members of the County Assembly (MCAs). At the county assembly level across all the counties, we have already rectified that anomaly. We can also see that the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. M. Kajwang, who has been misleading you? I do not believe there is anything like what you say you have been recently informed about; young, old and elderly ladies. There are elderly ladies. They are very respectable.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the older they get, the younger they want to be. So, you are safe if you do not allude to age on their part. My argument is that women should not look forward to tokenism and favours. We know that they have been left behind historically but tokens will not propel them to that level. We live with ladies. My wife is more educated and qualified professionally than I am. She has transcended that mental bondage that she is a woman. She sees herself as an individual and a human being who is capable and competent to scale the heights of success. That should be the attitude across. However, when it comes to the political field, it is a slightly different matter. I want to advance an argument. This week, in the western edition of some dailies, the headlines have been about nominations and how they will be free and fair for certain political parties. The discussion on nomination in my view is similar to the discussion between a free market and a controlled economy. When you are in a free market where it is free for all, our women will not be able to compete. If they are left to compete with men using the same devices, strategies and same amounts of cash, they will never be able to compete. Even in our nominations we must attempt to strike a balance and say that, fine, a free market, free nomination is good, that is the letter and spirit of what democracy The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I enjoyed listening to Sen. M. Kajwang. If an honorary title was to be awarded today, we would award him for supporting women vigorously. I also rise to support this Bill which is quite interesting. As my colleague Sen. M. Kajwang has said, amendments will be suggested when it moves to the next stage. I congratulate Sen. Sijeny for being bold enough to raise these issues in the Constitution, particularly Articles 81, 90, 97 and 98. They dwell majorly on nominations with regard to gender and persons living with disabilities at all levels; the county assembly, the National Assembly and the Senate. I have gone through the Bill briefly. I am impressed to note that Sen. Sijeny has suggested that concerning Article 81, we need to insert a new paragraph which is indicated in this Bill to introduce legislation, policy and other measures including the setting of standards to achieve the realisation of Clause 1(b) and Article 81(1)(b). Article 81 purely talks about the electoral system that they need to comply with in entirety. The Senator has introduced another part which states that the state shall take legislative policy and other measures including the setting up of standards to achieve the realisation of Clause 1(b). In other words, the whole of Article 81 from (a) to (e) now The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it now needs to come into the minds of Kenyans that we should not force things onto others whenever we have an idea that may be appealing to you. Do not misuse a position, particularly when you are a person in charge. Article 81 (e) says:- “Elections must be free and fair”. I suppose this is why we now have this agitation of wanting the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) to be reformed which is true because if the players and the users of the decision of the IEBC are not comfortable, then it requires that it be reformed. I thank the Senate and the National Assembly for sending a strong team that is sitting almost the whole day on a daily basis in County Hall, co-chaired by Sen.Murungi and Sen. Orengo. Kenyans desire to make this Constitution better. When we passed it in 2010, we appealed to the people who had voted “No” that there would be changes to some of the issues that were not clear. This Article guarantees anybody who has a problem to read it. Saying the elections are free and fair means that it should be by secret ballot, free from violence, no intimidation and no undue influence or corruption. In my county and some neigbouring counties, some characters are already saying: We will use thorax in 2107 election, so that we can take a candidate of our choice. I am wondering whether they have the same Constitution or there is a new one that has been produced by the people who go to the villages to mislead others. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this body is supposed to be independent and the author of the Bill has no disagreement with that. He now only says:- “That, the state shall, take legislative and other measures, including the setting of standards, to achieve realization of the Clauses set up above”. Of which part (b) says:- “Not more than two thirds of the members of elective bodies shall be of the same gender”. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
What is Sen. Okong’o?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while you were consulting with the “King of Meru” the good professor is misleading the nation by saying that the women of Kenya are forcing matters which are in the Constitution. Is he in order to mislead the nation that these rights are coming to this House in the wrong way, whereas it is a constitutional requirement that we realign our Constitution which was voted for?
Sen. Okong’o, do you not think Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo is just expressing his opinion? I noticed that you are the next on line and I am sure you will be able to disabuse that notion, if it is wrong. Everybody has a right to express their views and that is the essence of debate. When it is your turn, you will show whether that was wrong.
I am most obliged, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Thank you for reminding my neighbour that he is the next one in line. We need to remind him that I am the other small king. When you see Sen. Murungi here--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Sen. Khalwale.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the “bull fighter” is not in good sports.
Order! I did not give you that chance, did I? Continue with your debate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Clause talking about a maximum of two terms is essential. Let us not curtail people too much. It does not have to be that when you have served for two terms, you are automatically supposed to be elected. As we said, it should be competitive. Lastly, if you read the history and books, particularly where we have seen the emergence of female leaders, you will find that they are not curtailed. They just emerge and automatically find themselves performing quite well. So, we need to encourage our sisters that it is their time. I support.
Thank you Senator. Sen. Okong’o, now it is your opportunity.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I rise to contribute, there is an issue which I did not want to delve into. First, I have to congratulate the Mover of this Bill, my learned friend, Sen. Sijeny, for coming up with what she is entitled to do as a legislator. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when we passed the 2010 Constitution, we legislators are required to come up with several Acts and amendments to realign the 2010 Constitution to fall within the letter and spirit of the Constitution. That is what Sen. Sijeny has done. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am rising under Standing Order No.146 which speaks to the reintroduction of Bills after they have been rejected after the Third Reading in this House. I do not have to read that particular Standing Order because you know it. The determination I am requesting that the Chairs makes is; given the provisions of Article 112 of the Constitution which provides that a Bill like this one will have to get concurrence of the National Assembly and recalling that a similar Bill was before the National Assembly, in fact, last month and it was rejected; could you make a determination whether it is procedural for us to continue with this Bill knowing that this Bill would be seeking for concurrence in the National Assembly which already has rejected a similar Bill? Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like you to guide me and because of your unique position as a lawyer and my equally unique position as a long serving legislature in this country, this matter is unprecedented and requires clarity.
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Let me get you right Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you quoted Standing Order No. 146 on Introduction of Bills. Is there anything wrong we have done there?
Absolutely nothing, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. That is why I brought the matter together with Article 112 of the Constitution.
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): So Standing Order No. 146 is okay?
Yes, Standing Order No. 146 is super.
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Because six months have lapsed and we are in a different session, right?
Sorry, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Maybe you did not hear my opening remarks.
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): I heard you.
You heard me; thank you.
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): What did you say about Standing Order No. 146?
Standing Order No. 146, I said it should come in a different session or not earlier than six months.
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): So that one is okay? That one is complied with? These are our Standing Orders.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that one is complied with for the reason that a similar Bill has not been before this House.
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): So, Standing Order No. 146 is okay? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Yes, Standing Order No. 146 is super. When you read Article 112 of the Constitution ---
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Let us go to Article 112 of the Constitution which you have referred to. What is your issue there?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in Article 112 of the Constitution; if one House passes an ordinary Bill concerning counties and the second House rejects it, this is now contemplating a situation whereby the Bill goes to the second House. So, because Article 112 of the Constitution anticipates a Bill going to the other House and I know that this Bill will require concurrence of the other House---
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Take me to Article 112 of the Constitution. Let us go through it together.
I will read Article 112 of the Constitution?
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Yes.
It states and I quote:- “If one House passes an ordinary Bill concerning counties and the second House rejects the Bill, it shall be referred to a Mediation Committee appointed under Article 113 of the Constitution or passes the Bill in an amended Bill; it shall be referred back to the originating House for reconsideration”. Do I stop or I continue?
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Is that where your issue is?
My issue is on concurrence of the other House.
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): With the Bill that we are dealing with now?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This Bill, God willing, when we pass it, will go to the National Assembly for concurrence, but the National Assembly is in the unique position that last month, they rejected a similar Bill.
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): A different Bill and not The Constitution of Kenya (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.16 of 2015) but may be a Bill that was almost the same in its essence. My understanding is that your fear is that the National Assembly has dealt with a Bill very close to this one and has rejected it.
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): That does not stop us from debating our Bill. Would it?
Not in the least.
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Your fear is that we are working in futility because if we pass this Bill and take it to the National Assembly, it will be rejected.
Yes, that is my fear.
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): But is that not pre-emptive?
It is pre-emptive but I was forward looking and I wanted that because this is unprecedented, you make a determination not necessarily now but we can debate it.
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): My understanding Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is that if one House passes an ordinary Bill like the one we are dealing with The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): So, in this case, if for the sake of agreement we pass this Bill, what will happen is that we are going to fight with the National Assembly. Am I correct?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Then two things will happen; if the Senate passes it to the National Assembly and they reject it, then a committee on mediation will be formed. Am I right?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, so that I do not look like I am arguing with you---
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): No; I am quite happy, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, going through this Motion with you because it is important. My understanding of what you are saying is that your fear is that we are working in futility in the sense that even if we pass this Bill, it goes to the National Assembly, they will reject it.
Exactly and it may not be rejected in Plenary. The Speaker will not find it admissible for debate because the Standing Orders will tell him this matter has recently been before the House. So, it will not even be taken for debate. That is the determination I want.
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Can it go for mediation?
It cannot, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. A Bill only goes for mediation if it has been rejected. The House will not have been given an opportunity to reject.
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Then you need to show me the proper legal provision because Article 112 of the Constitution is about going to mediation. It is not a situation where the Speaker will reject it.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, before he takes, you have made an important point. Article 112 of the Constitution is not about mediation. Mediation is Article 113 of the Constitution.
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): But it flows from Article 112 of the Constitution.
Yes Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want you to understand me that the only reason why this Bill will find itself at Article 113 of the Constitution is because the National Assembly will have spoken to it and rejected it with an amendment. However---
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Why would the Speaker of the National Assembly reject the Bill before taking it to the Floor of the House?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, he will reject it because six months will not have elapsed.
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): This is not their Bill; it is a Senate Bill.
Okay; you make a determination, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): No, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. You are raising a very important legal issue and my understanding is that this is a Senate Bill and our Standing Orders guide us, as they are guided by their Standing Orders. That is why I asked you in Standing Order No. 146 and you said it is okay. If it goes to the National Assembly, it will not be their Bill that was rejected less than six months ago. They will not be dealing with that Bill but they will be dealing with our Bill and determining whether or not they can pass it. If they do not pass it, it will go to mediation. That is my understanding from where I am sitting.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, because I have raised this issue---
Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Because Standing Order No. 146 is talking to a Bill within the same House. I do not think the Speaker of the National Assembly will say we had a Bill similar to this one – it may be similar but not the same. It may be addressing a similar thing but not the same things. That is my understanding but I could be wrong. I can see Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. is asking for the Floor and Sen. M. Kajwang is also asking for the Floor. Let me just hear them out.
.: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is a serious issue there. Let me take another angle. The advisory opinion of the Supreme Court on the gender question in Article 91 gave Parliament the deadline of 27th August, 2016. So, there needs to be an element of determination of this question. I am not certain whether the Bill in the National Assembly was on principle. This is on principle or under Article 81, but I am not certain whether we are looking at the measures of ensuring that we comply with the two-thirds requirement. Any conflict on this question will fall squarely on this House in terms of the failure to comply with the deadline set by the Supreme Court. It is very dangerous if we do not determine what question the National Assembly did not agree to is. When we finish what we are doing here, we should not end up with a quarrel, at the National Assembly level about this question. There needs to be clear direction, maybe through consultation, so that we do not end up in a deadlock. We want to help, but it would be unfair for us to sit, with the knowledge and information that we have about, first, the deadline set by the Supreme Court and, two, the rejection by the National Assembly. We should not sit here and assume that all will be well, when we know it might not be. A little direction here will be useful, so that we know that once we finish this--- The issue is urgent and I have said that if we do not comply with Article 81(b) it is possible that a good Kenyan, like Mr. Omtata, will make sure that we are not sworn in, in 2017. It is a serious question.
Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., I thought you would help me on the issue of procedure; the legality of the---
.: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is the same. That is what I said. If there is a rejection on the Standing Orders.
At the National Assembly, because the Bill needs concurrence. The legal question---
Forget about the Constitutional deadlines because those are there and if they catch up with us, they do. Citizens like Mr. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
.: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is the elephant in the room. Did they reject the measure or the principle to the extent that---
The truth of the matter, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., is that from where I am sitting, I do not know. Normally, I would have a message from the National Assembly that I would have read out to the Senate and said that this is the position. What happened in their situation is that the Bill died; it was voted out twice or thrice. The “nays” had it, as it were. Are we dealing with the same thing?
.: Yes, because it is Article 81.
No, not Article 81. Are we dealing with the same Bill?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are not dealing with the same Bill.
Then, if we are not dealing with same Bill, we are dealing with the same situation. I do not know why they rejected it ---
.: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is why it is important to have a reasoned ruling. I must confess that I know that it is possible that there were other considerations of rejecting the principles that were in Article 81, because the amendments are the same. It could be a different Bill, but the National Assembly was attempting to deal with Articles 81, 97 and 98. So, if it is substantially the same ---
The big question is: If we pass this Bill here – and remember they did not pass the Bill from what we have been told – the next thing that will happen is that we shall send a message to the National Assembly. The question then that must be answered is: Will the Speaker of the National Assembly say that he will not take it to the Floor of the House because it is the same thing or will he be obliged to take the matter to the Floor of the House and then they reject our Bill and it goes to mediation? That is what Article 112 of the Constitution says. The problem that I have is that we are dealing with issues that I do not know about.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is the reason it would have been important that before we finalise whatever we are doing, we check, so that we are clear. It is a point and I am ready to contribute because where I stand, I am a special rapporteur for gender parity of the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU). I have an issue about this, but those are fundamental questions. We know what has happened before. Bills have been sent to them but they have not been listed. Instead, they have listed something else. It is fair that we confirm because we suspect that, in fact, it will not even leave the Rules and Business---
Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., the only problem I have – you may take your seat for now – from where I am sitting, and I know that Sen. Kajwang has also asked for the Floor on the same point, is that the National Assembly has its own Standing Orders. A Bill can originate from either House. Am I correct so far?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes, you are. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
They originated a Bill which died because it was voted out; the “Nays” had it. So, we do not know about it; it is a stillborn. We now have another Bill, which is not based on that Bill. It is a Bill that is now originating from the Senate. It may be dealing with similar issues; Article 81, 90, 97 and 98, but it is a different Bill for all purposes. For the sake of argument, I want us to assume that we shall vote “Yes” and pass it. If we do, we are fanctus officio that far, because we shall send a message to the National Assembly, who shall then take it to the Floor of the House. They shall debate and reject it. The only thing that will then happen; since we will have gone through the whole hog of debating and passing it, is that; it must go to mediation under Article 113. That is where it will pass or not, but we shall have done what we have to do. But we cannot pre- empt a situation and say that a similar Standing Order in the National Assembly, like our Standing Order No.146, has been breached because ours has not been breached. The Speaker of the National Assembly cannot say they had a similar Bill less than six months ago and so, they cannot put it on the Floor of the House, because it is not their Bill; this is our Bill. That is my view. Sen. Kajwang, what is your opinion?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, sometimes when you have tough subjects involving legal minds and experienced legislators like Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you need a fisherman like me who is experienced in disentangling nets. I see two things here. Is this Bill properly in the House or this is an exercise in futility? I agree with you that on the question of whether this is an exercise in futility, we are being pre-emptive.
Is the Bill in the House properly?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as to whether the Bill is in the House properly, when I look in the Constitution and Standing Orders, I see sections which oblige the Speakers of both Houses to do certain things before a Bill comes to this House. I want to assume that, that was done. Of course, the wording of the Constitution says that whether it concerns county Governments or special or ordinary Bill; I want to believe that this Bill was subjected to Article 110(3) of the Constitution. Secondly, our Standing Order No.117 talks about introduction of Bills; what must be done when a Bill is being introduced to this House. Standing Order No.117(2)(c) obliges the Speaker to refer the legislative proposal to the Clerk, who shall consider the proposal and whether it conforms to the Constitution and the law and it is in order as to format, style and in accordance with these Standing Orders--- Unless we are questioning whether the Speaker went through very vigorous process then, we would consider that this Bill is properly in the House. Just yesterday, we had a similar discussion, where a Bill came to the house and we were arguing whether the requirements of the County Governments Act on renaming of county headquarters had been fulfilled. The County Governments Act says that a county Government must make a resolution supported by two-thirds of the assembly and the resolution transmitted to Parliament. We were questioning whether that resolution had been passed. The Speaker ruled that by the time the Bill is before us, then those conditions have been met. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
What does the fisherman think about the second test?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the fisherman does not like to be presumptuous or to pre-empt things. History will judge us as a House that considered this matter and either agreed or disagreed with it. When I read the mood of the House, we are generally in support of this Bill. We cannot predict what will happen in the other House.
That is the kind of position I am taking. I take it advisedly. I am happy that Sen. M. Kajwang has brought in the issue of Article 110 (3). As far as I am concerned, I am not competent at the moment to talk about Article 110 (3). My assumption, just like yours, is that when a Bill passes through the Senate Business Committee (SBC) and comes to the Floor of the House, it has complied with all those other issues. I will not look behind it or talk about Article 110 (3). I can only talk about Article 112. As far as I am concerned, my eyes are closed; I cannot see. I do not know whether this Bill was debated anywhere else at any other time, because I have no knowledge or message on the same, and so, my hands are tied. We have a Bill in front of us and we must pass or reject it. If we pass it at the division stage, then we shall only do what we must do under Article112 (1) of the Constitution. I have no control at all of what will happen after that. I will not defer this issue for a ruling more considered than what I have given. I am only dealing with the law as I see it.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I have already made a ruling on this issue. If it is to argue on whether or not we will proceed, I have already made a decision.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to be on record. I concur with you; I cannot challenge you. There is no evidence that there is reason for us to stop or stand down the debate on this Bill. However, for the first time, we are now creating a parliamentary practice that will eventually become our tradition. Such a matter might recur in future. My thinking is that we proceed with debate - even if we pass the Second Reading today, there will be still the Third Reading waiting – but in the meantime, the Office of the Speaker should be forward-looking and do the necessary consultations, so that a ruling is made once and for all. Why do I say this? Before this message goes before the National Assembly, the Speaker will look at the Bill and say that according to the Constitution, it is admissible for debate. He then goes to the House Business Committee (HBC) in the National Assembly which ballots the Bill. If they find that the matter had already been before the House, there might be an issue that will require a declaration.
They can never find that the matter was before the House because it was never before the House. They can find that it is deceptively similar - as we used to say in law - to what was before their House, but they may not say that it is the same, because it is not the same. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I had just started.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Is it on the same issue, Sen. Sang?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I came in when you had already progressed in these discussions. Thank you, for giving the undertaking to do a considered ruling---
I will not do any other ruling. I have made my ruling.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am sure that the issues that have been raised here will still be part and parcel of the deliberations in this House. You have given us the green light and we shall proceed with the Second Reading on this Bill. However, I am sure that at one point or another, we will have to address a number of the issues that have been raised in this House. Some of the constitutional provisions with regards to Article 110 on whether or not a Bill affects counties might not necessarily apply on a constitutional amendment. The Constitution under Chapter 16 provides only two ways of amending the Constitution. Article 256 is a parliamentary initiative, which I believe---
I do not know where you are getting to, but I suspect that you want to bring in new issues. You are now talking about Article 256 and things that might happen in the future. I have made a ruling on what is before us now. We still have to go to the Third Reading and pass the Bill before it goes to the ‘lower House.’ All those things will happen. If at another stage in time something else has to be ruled upon, it will be dealt with at that time. Proceed, Sen. Gwendo.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the contrary, I would like to congratulate Sen. Sijeny for bringing this Bill.
Contrary to what?
Contrary to the point of order by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. It goes to show how---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I hope that you will not take us back. What is your point of order? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is Sen. Gwendo in order to impute that my point of order was intended to deny recognition or congratulatory remarks to Sen. Sijeny, when all I was doing was to seek clear directives from the Chair about a matter which you have concurred and you have directed me. Is she in order?
She is totally out of order.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, could she withdraw and apologize?
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you had not sought for withdrawal and apology. Proceed, Sen. Gwendo.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, unfortunately, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, did not wait for me to finish for him to understand my statement. I was congratulating Sen. Sijeny and at the same time bringing out the fact that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale’s point of order goes a long way to show the kind of fight that we have to go through as women. You are bringing out where you feel women belong. It is like insinuating that---
Order, Sen. Gwendo. Address issues without getting into areas that you may not be able to extricate yourself from.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. Sen. Gwendo, you will address the Chair. I have made a ruling that you are out of order in the first instance. You can now contribute to the debate.
Much obliged, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
What is it Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you, for giving me this opportunity to beg the distinguished Senator to withdraw those remarks, so that they are not part of the record of the House. She does not have to apologize. My children will come here when I am gone and I do not want them to think that I was ‘anti-women.’ In fact, I am on record as one of the few politicians in this country who loves our women so much that I not only have one or two wives but slightly more. What greater appreciation can a man have for women?
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I think you are the one who is now out of order. Let us continue with this important debate.
Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I congratulate Sen. Sijeny for bringing this Bill to the Senate. I just want to reiterate what Sen. M. Kajwang said; counting the achievements that we have had in the world today. The current Kenya Ports Authority Managing Director is a woman. We also have the British Prime Minister, the German Prime Minister among others. These are some of the achievements that we have managed to conquer as women. These women managed to attain these positions through their struggles. In Kenya, we have to amend the Constitution for women to get these positions. Women do not need The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. Gwendo, we are in Parliament. If you want to contribute, you must use parliamentary language. You cannot refer to Senators as ‘you people’. You must use Parliamentary language that is palatable, which can go on the HANSARD. I hope you are so directed.
Much obliged, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. As women leaders in this society, we are not asking for tokens. We are asking for the support of men and male leaders. I wish the society could be prompted to change the thinking that a woman cannot be a leader. For example, in any group a woman will many a times be given the position of an organising secretary or treasurer. They will never be chairperson, not because they not capable of handling the position, but because it is perceived that the chairperson’s position has to be taken by a man. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I urge political parties to find a way of supporting women so that when issuing nomination certificates, women pay half the nomination fees, like what some parties did during the last general election. Women should also be supported in terms of campaign materials and security. Lack of such things is what makes most women shy away from vying for positions. It is not because they are afraid or they are incapable, but because of they have seen other women go through before. There is no tool more important in development than the empowerment of women. When you empower one woman, you have empowered a whole society. When you support one woman, you have supported a generation. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I also want to thank Sen. Sijeny for bringing the amendment to the Constitution regarding a critical issue to our country. Article 261 (5) may be used against Parliament if we are unable to ensure that the two-thirds gender matter is determined. I also want to thank Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., Sen. Hassan and the Senate Minority Leader for their stand when this Bill was in the ‘lower House’. They stood firm and declared that it is time that we finish with the agenda.
On a point of order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We are several Members in this House. Is the Senator in order to isolate and discriminate against Sen. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. It is this attitude of being confrontational that is part of the reason in the National Assembly, a few male Members walked out of the House and we missed the numbers. Today, we have spent the whole day listening to the presentations as, the Select Committee, from the National Gender and Equality Commission, particularly on this agenda. Should this matter fail, we yet have another avenue, as a Committee, to give it a chance to see the light of day. Is she in order to leave me out of the list of people being given accolades?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Senator of Kakamega and the Vice Chair of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights should have waited until I finished my statement. I was just affirming. Of course, I know what my Senator and the Vice Chairperson of the Committee have done. I wish they could have waited.
I can confirm they are happy now.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, indeed, they are part of the movement and I am sure that the Vice Chair will follow up after we finish debating, so that we can ensure that even the ‘lower House’ agrees with us. I thank every Kenyan who participated and ensured that we have a new Constitution. I also thank the late Sen. Mutula Kilonzo (senior) - may his soul rest in peace - because he stood with us. Even at the National Assembly, he stood steady to ensure that 50 seats are given to women. He later joined the Eleventh Parliament and gave more support. Many would wish to see more women in representative positions and meet the two thirds gender requirement, as it happens in other East African countries and in the Commonwealth Parliaments. Looking at the object of this Bill, we need to be sure and clear as we move forward that the ‘Lower House’ will support this agenda. We know that they just lacked the numbers during the second Division. However, they all agreed on the Bill. Therefore, I plead with the principals of both sides of the coalitions that it is time to finalize this Bill so that the August deadline does not find a Kenyan with mischief who would want to see disarray not just on the affirmative action agenda but on other critical agenda as well that we must ensure Parliament passes. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we are currently dealing with the issue of Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) as well as other constitutional Bills. This Bill is one of those that under Article 261 of the Constitution that the court made a ruling on. It is important for us not to take it lightly. This is the ‘Upper House’ that can ensure Kenya goes back on track. I have realized that our brothers and sisters in the National Assembly think that this Constitution is a joke, not just on the issue of affirmative action, but on the way they manage many of the things. They forget that somebody can sabotage the whole process at The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support in principle. It is fair that we affirm the constitution. Article 260 says:- “The “affirmative action” includes any measure designed to ameliorate an inequity or the systematic denial or infringement of right or fundamental freedom”. It is disappointing that in the history of this country we know - Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale mentioned this during our Senate Select Committee - that women are 52 per cent of the population. They are the majority and yet 50 years since Independence, they continue to be marginalized. I have the privilege of being one of the two rapporteurs of the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU). I will be presenting a report in October during the General Assembly of the IPU on this question. We are investigating why it is that so many years after the Beijing Declaration, many other declarations and conventions, we are still arguing on this principle of this minimum. Kenya is at 22 per cent in terms of the gender question. This is way below the one third that is contemplated. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, under Article 91, I had the privilege of making this presentation and I will repeat it today, that this gender question is not separate from a free and fair, simple and accurate election. This is to the extent that if this question is not answered before the next general election, we are going into a constitutional crisis. It is possible that the men who are the majority in this Parliament will have to stand up to be counted. I am doing some work for the IPU and it has long been recognized that men are the ones who are occupying all the seats whether it is executive, parliamentary or parastatal. It is a structural problem in a patriarchal society. This is the theme that we in the IPU have adopted. Men and women have now come together to create a bridge, in our quest to find out how the gender parity issue is being done all over the world. In Togo, special seats are reserved for women, but they do not take them up. In India, there is an Amendment Bill No 208 passed by the Upper House and rejected by the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to strongly support any initiative, like this one, that attempts to equalize the boys and girls; the men and women of the Republic of Kenya. This is because, in His wisdom, the Lord Almighty created all of us equal. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I wish to speak to the importance of this constitutional amendment Bill and emphasize the reasons I am happy that, finally, we have an opportunity to make a pronouncement on it as a House. This matter has been before the National Assembly two times and we watched helplessly as the Bill got defeated. I want to appeal to colleagues and leaders of delegations in this House to ensure that we pass this Bill, so that we send a clear message to the country that the Senate is the “upper House;” the House of reflection that can reflect on matters when they have not been handled very well in the “lower House”. I, therefore, wish to confirm that I support this Bill, because of Article 100 of the Constitution, which provides that affirmative action should be extended to women, amongst other minority and marginalized groups, including persons living with disability. I support this Bill for the sake of my daughters. I have beautiful girls who are very brilliant. In fact, it normally gives me a lot of pleasure that so far, my girls continue to score better than my boys in all national examinations. So, I know that the real expression The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Which is immense!
Which is immense, as put by my able national party leader of FORD Kenya. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I support this Bill for the memory my late mother, Mama Paulina Shinangoi, omukhana wa Lugonzo. Finally, I want to clarify that I support all these women that I have mentioned above, I am currently teaching my daughters and I hope all the girl-children of this country are listening to me or will one day read this. We must teach our girls to learn to compete. We do not want them to think that the reason we give them affirmative action is because they are in any way inferior to their age mates who are boys. This is evident in the convergence that is soon coming in the world. In the community of nations, the three superpowers of the world; the United States of America (USA), the Republic of Germany and the United Kingdom (UK) will all be led by women by the end of November. Hopefully, these will be Hillary Clinton in the USA, Angela Merkel in Germany and, of course, Theresa May in the UK. I want to pass my congratulations to Ms. May. So, we must teach our children to compete. It is a pity that the Mover of the Motion has stepped out because I wanted her to hear this. She cannot move in the spirit of affirmative action and then provide in this Bill Clause 4(b) which says that you insert the following New Clauses immediately after Clause 1. Clause 1(a) states that a person elected under Clause 1 for a seat in Parliament or a county assembly shall be eligible for re-election under Clause 1 for two terms. No way! With all due respect, Sen. Sijeny, you are legislating for yourself, the current Members of the Senate who are nominated to this House or you are legislative in connivance with the MCAs and Members of the National Assembly who are currently nominated. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to appeal to Sen. Sijeny to demonstrate good will. I would like you to know that we are the majority in this House. She will not use us to disenfranchise the other deserving women in the Republic of Kenya. She needs to demonstrate good will by dropping this particular New Clause. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I have been listening to Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale talking and I am wondering whether he is in order to mislead us about the interpretation of Clause 1(a) which states that a person elected under Clause 1 for a seat in Parliament or a county assembly shall be eligible for re-election under Clause 1 for two terms only. That means that if they had been there and they want to be re-nominated for the third term, they will not. This Clause does not suggest that they must be nominated for two consecutive terms. That is a misunderstanding that creates a lot of unnecessary interpretation and debate, specifically for this Clause because at the end of the day, we are saying that this person should not be elected more than two terms. It does not mean that if you have been here for one term, you must again be nominated for a second term.
Sen. (Dr.) Zani, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is not out of order in his debate. Continue, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with your permission, allow me to thank you and also remind Sen. (Dr.) Zani that I understand that she is a lecturer at the University of Nairobi. If she had been one of the teachers who taught me, she would not have qualified to teach English because, apparently, I understand English better than she does. I can read this clause and understand it well. I am asking Sen. Sijeny to do the honourable thing, demonstrate good will, bring us on board and not disenfranchise other Kenyan women and drop this amendment. We want all other Kenyans to benefit. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, during the Third Reading, I will introduce a further amendment. I will provide that persons who qualify for nominations under this particular Article must, over and above the provisions of Article 99, be people who have demonstrated interest in politics. We do not want nominated people to be women who have been fished from nowhere and we end up with people’s girlfriends and wives. I know of a personal assistant of a party leader, who when given an opportunity to organize a list, nominated his two daughters to a county assembly. To stop this mischief, I will be introducing the clause, which I will beg the House to support; that for a woman to qualify for nomination, she should have vied and lost. That way, we will know that she has the appetite for politics. Finally but not least, I want to appeal to the Chairperson of the National Gender and Equality Commission, Ms, Winfred Lichuma, that this is an excellent opportunity. Instead of the time she wasted trying to lobby Members of the National Assembly, she should come and talk to our Senators. She should also call for a quick workshop of the women Senators so that they tone down on the kind of attitude demonstrated by Sen. (Dr.) Zani this afternoon. Sen. (Dr.) Zani should appreciate that she does not lead any delegation. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I therefore, conclude by assuring---
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, could you protect me?
Sen. (Dr.) Zani, I hope you do not want to debate again.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I did not want you to pre-empt want I want to do. Is Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale in order to suggest about an attitude being presented in terms of debate when we are clear about the fact that when we are debating in this House, we do so as Senators of the Senate of Kenya? When bringing our points to the fore front, let us not show the differences that we have as human beings at this particular point. As women of Kenya, we have tried to create a scenario for positions for the women. We are trying to do so with a lot of understanding between the Senators. If I speak about it, he should not interpret it as an attitude; neither should he question my credentials as a lecturer. I have taught a lot of people and they have done well.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is a good debate. I want to conclude by appealing to the Chair that the point of order I raised this afternoon was about the interpretation of the process through which this Bill is expected to move under Standing Order No. 146 and Article 112 of the Constitution. A ruling should be made over it because it is a major constitutional issue that requires determination. With those many remarks, I support.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, let me start from where Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale left. I believe that according to Sen. Sijeny, this is not her Bill but she is the conveyer belt of the use of others to this House. May I advise her for free that Clause 4(b) -before looking at the main Bill - will collapse this Bill.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is advice for free, take it from me that I am a presidential candidate and I need women votes. I have been in Parliament since 1993 and I have seen these things many times. A constitutional Bill, once it is brought to the House, passes as is or falls as is. We, as CORD, support affirmative action – and this I am telling my distinguished friends and sisters, whom I love so much. Affirmative action the world over is never extended to an individual in perpetuity. It is a one shot and when one finishes, he or she exits and somebody else comes. This is because it is a process of capacity building. We are building capacities of women. I have daughters. My first daughter is a distinguished lawyer; my second is an engineer like you the Chair. I also have others who are on the same lineage. If my first daughter who is a lawyer is given an opportunity, she must exit after the first bite to give room for her younger sisters who must also have the same opportunity. That is what affirmative action worldwide is all about. We support our women and we must have a minimum of one-third in this House. However, I am not ready to support that in a term, we have a certain group and in the next, we have the same group. That does not work and it will not work. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is a Member in the National Assembly who nowadays behaves as if she is the most elected Member in this Parliament. She even calls The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order the Senate Minority Leader. You are entitled to one hour. Therefore, when the Bill appears in the Order Paper next, you will have a balance of 56 minutes. With your power of debate, I believe you will exhaust that time.
Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30p.m., time to interrupt the business of the House. The Senate stands adjourned until Tuesday, 26th July, 2016 at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate