Hon. Senators, I wish to recognize the presence of visiting Members and staff of the Zimbabwe Parliamentary Committee on Legal Affairs who are seated at the Speaker’s Gallery. They are as follows:- Hon. Innocence Gonese - The Leader of the Delegation The Hon. Ziyambi Ziyambi - Member Hon. Fortune Chasi - Member Hon. Fungayi Jesse Majome - Member Mrs. Gladys Pise - Parliamentary Counsel Mrs. Nosizi Khumalo - Committee Clerk In our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to our Parliament, I send a warm welcome to them. On your behalf and on my own behalf, I wish them a fruitful visit to our Senate.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Permit me to extend a warm welcome to the delegation from Zimbabwe. We are happy you came to visit us. Zimbabwe and Kenya have enjoyed very friendly relations for a long time. Both countries share a lot of similarities as they pursue development. It is in order for us to meet, interact and exchange ideas. Feel at home and enjoy yourselves as you eat our version of “sadza” which is ugali.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also wish to join in extending the warm welcome to my learned friends from Zimbabwe. We have had a very good interactive session. We learnt a lot from them and they have also learnt a lot from us. They are gender sensitive. The Affirmative Action Bill or Gender Role Bill that is in the Order Paper today is already being practiced in Zimbabwe as from the year 2013. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Together with my colleagues, I would also like to welcome the delegation from Zimbabwe. The reason I rose to speak and congratulate them is because through an effort of one of the Members who was then in the Opposition, Zimbabwe was able to sign into law something we call the Arms Trade Treaty (ATT) which this country has not managed to do. I learnt through the Parliamentary Global Action that there is an opportunity for legislators to use what we call the soft approach even when in the Opposition, to enable a country do something as important as the ATT as we commonly refer to it. Just to echo the sentiments of Sen. Sijeny that those efforts emphasize the idea that there is more room for ladies in parliamentary action.
Order, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.! Your Speaker was very instrumental in that ATT. What are you going to do for your Parliament? Food for thought! Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Machage.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The mention of Zimbabwe for those of us who are old enough reminds us of the struggle for Independence and, indeed, Kenya also had its history on the same. We are proud of the statesmanship the leader of your country. We tend to read a lot of small extracts in this country of words of wisdom from the President of Zimbabwe. We are happy to receive a delegation from that country. Feel welcome in Kenya.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to join you in welcoming this wonderful delegation. We, as a Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights hosted them. One of the interesting things to learn from this particular Committee is that this is a constitutional Committee. It is a Committee that is constituted according to their new Constitution whose mandate mirrors the mandate of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. We learnt a few things from them. One of the things that I know for sure, they will learn from our situation in Kenya as they are in the process of trying to set up devolution in their country. This is one of those institutions in this country mandated to protect, preserve and advise the quest for devolution. I ask them to learn and to see how the Senate is working to entrench devolution in this country.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, kindly allow me to table some Papers on behalf of a number of Committees. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Did you notice that Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, the Chairman of Devolution crossed to the other side of the House and comfortably walked back smiling as if he was transacting business in Nyangores Ward?
Order, Sen. Sang! Firstly, I did not notice. Secondly, where is Nyangores Ward? Could you confirm, Sen. (Prof.) Lesan?
Mr. Speaker Sir, indeed, I was at the Dispatch Box area in the House, but I did not cross the Floor of the House. I am glad that you have mentioned that you did not see me do so.
Order! That happiness is displaced. I do not need to see you. That is why I asked you to confirm. I was just confirming that I had not seen you. That does not mean that it did not happen. That is why Sen. Sang was pointing it out. In this place, we do not act because you are not being seen. You act on what is supposed to be done.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I actually went to the Dispatch Box area. Unfortunately, as my colleague was resuming his seat, he thought I obstructed his direct view of the Chair. I do apologize for not showing respect to the Chair.
Order, Senator! I do not understand. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, indeed, as I said, I actually crossed the Floor. However, I did not realise that I had entirely crossed the Floor. Indeed, I crossed and that is why I am apologizing.
Order. The form of the apology is that after the apology there is a remedy. The remedy is to retrace your steps and do the necessary.
Order, Members! Are there any requests? We will take the requests first. If not, we will proceed on the Statements to be issued. The Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations to issue a Statement on the security situation in the Republic of South Sudan. What is it, Sen. (Prof.) Lesan? INDUSTRIAL ACTION BY MEMBERS OF THE KENYA PLANTATION WORKERS UNION
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I made a request for a Statement from the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Services regarding the industrial strike that was going on within the County of Bomet among the tea workers. It was due last week on Thursday.
What happened on Thursday last week?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it was not issued on Thursday. However, I did not press for it.
Our tracker centre here shows that the Statement regarding industrial action by members of the Kenya Plantation Workers Union was requested on 6th July, 2016, and was to be issued on 20th July and then was postponed by another one week to 27th July. It is supposed to be on the Order Paper tomorrow.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Much obliged.
Sen. Dullo! VOLATILE SITUATION IN SOUTH SUDAN
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to respond to a request for a Statement which was sought by Sen. Wetangula. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Chairperson, you should be concluding.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is a long one.
But he has a copy.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in conclusion, question No.6 is how prepared the Government is in dealing with the influx of refugees from South Sudan. Most of the questions are exhaustively responded to unless the Senator would like to seek clarification in one or two issues. The issue of refugees is primarily one of international concern. The Government will work closely with the relevant international agency should there be an influx of refugees.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank the distinguished Senator for that long answer on the issue of South Sudan. Could the Chairperson tell the House and the country why – this is on page 3 of her statement – while Uganda sent troops into South Sudan up to Juba to not only protect its nationals but carry out some evacuations, our country was seeking assurances of safety of Kenyans from the Government of South Sudan? In a situation such as it appertains in Juba, you cannot possibly seek assurances from a Government that is dysfunctional and running two standing armies in Juba. Could the Chairperson tell us what concrete steps are being taken? From the whole rigmarole that we have been subjected to, there is no indication of any concrete plan by the Government either to send escorted buses or trucks to bring back people from South Sudan even the 1,000 that you say are marooned at the Embassy. I know the Embassy compound; it is a very tiny little place. It probably cannot even accommodate 300 people. How are Kenyans being catered for knowing that the population of Kenyans in South Sudan is in excess of 35,000? We are told that 4,000 are registered with the Embassy. Obviously somebody who is at the border at Nadapal or Nimule will not have money to go to Juba to register at the Embassy. What are we doing to save our people? In addition, how many refugees have fled to Kenya so far? It may be an international responsibility but the first port of call and contact is the Government of the Republic of Kenya or whichever Government is proximate to the exit of refugees. How many refugees have come into Kenya so far since this conflict started? Lastly, what is the Government doing as the regional leader to help bring normalcy into Sudan? President Salvar Kiir is now playing the usual tactics that we see in this country of poaching and purchasing opposition members to join him and others to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the latest announcements by the Government on the policy on refugees is that Kenya intends to close refugee camps. We now have a crisis in South Sudan. Have you revised that policy? If so, how many refugees do you intend to allow into Kenya? Secondly, you have said that you only airlifted 800 out of the 4,000 registered refugees in South Sudan. You have also said you want to use road transport in a war ravaged country. What informs your thought on using road transport to bring refugees instead of continuing with the airlifts?
Sen. (Dr.) Machage, are you referring to refugees or Kenyans in South Sudan?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, sorry. I am referring to Kenyans.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we just heard from the Statement that for Kenyans in South Sudan who do not have travel documents, the Government has put in place an arrangement to issue travel certificates. This programme was going on until yesterday, Monday, 25th July, 2016. Could consideration be given to continue with this programme to ensure that any Kenyan in South Sudan who wishes to travel back home is guaranteed travel documents and security escort until they arrive?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Chairperson tell us what arrangements have been made in Turkana County to secure Kenyans? Given the fact that the last time there was an influx from Sudan - you know very well about the situation in Lokichoggio and other places - what are we doing to ensure that Kenyans will remain secure inspite of the influx of those refugees? What are we doing to bring together the warring factions? As opposed to popular opinion expressed by one of the Senators who spoke earlier; opposition members can migrate willingly and comfortably without being bribed or given any money. So, is it not possible to merge this people as---?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, please protect me from the Senator for Mandera who is claiming that members of the opposition are moving to Government willingly.
Order, Sen. Kagwe. How can you be protected from your invitation? Sen. Billow is your guest. You invited him.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. Billow is an active player in the Jubilee Administration and perhaps, one of the people who can even acquire people from the Opposition side. The issue here is how we can bring these people to Nairobi to discuss this matter, as they have done in the past. They will never make peace sitting in the Republic of South Sudan on their own. If Kenya was to engage them, it is possible for us The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as matter of policy, I want to know from the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations what the Government’s policy is with regard to Kenyans working in conflict situations like South Sudan? This is because there seems to be a challenge where often, in South Sudan, this matter has been covered extensively in our media. Kenyans have been suffering in South Sudan even before this conflict. Many have been killed while others including pilots have been in detention for a long time. The Foreign Affairs Ministry does not seem to have a policy for assisting Kenyans when there are problems in those countries even without these conflicts.
Sen. M. Kajwang.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the past, the Government has appointed certain individuals as special envoys or advisors in situations like these where there is conflict. The last time conflict broke up in South Sudan, Kenya appointed Hon. Dalmas Otieno as a special envoy. Could the Chairperson confirm whether the Hon. Dalmas Otieno still acts as the special envoy of Kenya to South Sudan, under what terms he is holding that position and whether Kenya intends to continue using his services in the future in the light of the fresh outbreak of violence?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, recently Kenya agreed to repatriate the Somali refugees from Kenya to their country. Now that we are foreseeing a situation where Sudanese refugees will come to Kenya, are we practicing double standards by sending away the Somalis while opening up camps for Sudanese refugees in Kenya? What kind of reconciliation can we provide?
Sen. (Prof.) Lesan.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I reiterate that in the past, Kenya has appointed some personnel to handle the issue in Sudan. Since this was a military issue, General Sumbeiywo was the arbitrator on the ground. I believe he did a wonderful job during the crisis at that time. Could the Chairperson state whether the Government is considering reinforcing this office of General Sumbeiywo in Sudan in order to deal with the problem? Secondly, I wish to know what Kenya is doing to prepare, with the help of any residual government in South Sudan, to handle refugees inside Sudan who might be Kenyans.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I confess to this House that I might not be able to give most of the information and clarifications sought. It is outside what was initially requested by Sen. Wetangula. I need to go back to the Ministry and confirm what position they are taking especially on the issue of the buses that escorted and transported Kenyans from South Sudan. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Chairperson has accepted that the magnitude of the questions is too wide for her to tackle now. Is she in order to continue revisiting the HANSARD, when we could save time and accept that she brings the answer at an appropriate time, instead of repeating the questions?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issues are captured in the HANSARD and I may not be able to answer most of the clarifications sought by the Members. I will be able to clarify from the Ministry in a week’s time.
Order, Members. Sen. (Dr.) Machage, my understanding was that the Chairperson was basically revisiting the clarifications being sought and disposing each one of them either by giving some response or by saying that she does not have a response, which means that she will seek more information. That is the only way to assure the Members who had sought those clarifications that she was seized of the issues. What is it, Sen. Wetangula? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I seek your permission to have a second go because I had too many issues and I did not want to go on and on. If you give me an opportunity, I have got three other issues.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. When the United Nations (UN) and the African Union (AU) decided to send additional troops to South Sudan, the Government in South Sudan flatly rejected the gesture and said that was tantamount to turning their country into a colony. That meant that the peace situation shall continue remaining volatile and the distinguished Vice Chair did not even bother to answer that. If our neighbour Uganda has sent a contingent of their troops into Juba to protect their nationals and evacuate them, what is so difficult with Kenya doing the same? Why have we not done that knowing that we have more Kenyans in South Sudan than even Uganda that is taking extraordinary measures of security for its nationals? Secondly, most of these warring parties in South Sudan live in this country and their families are here. In trying to bring them to order, has the Government considered imposing sanctions on those who are unwilling or flatly rejecting any gesture of sitting down to talk about peace in their country so that they do not set their country on fire and run to Nairobi to live in the rich suburbs of our city in Karen, Lavington, Runda and everywhere when the small ordinary person in their country is feeling the full weight of their misconduct as their politicians? Mr. Speaker, Sir, lastly, could the Chair, while looking for more information, inform us as a House and the country whether Kenya as the team leader of the process that led to the comprehensive peace agreement and the only African guarantor to peace in South Sudan, will move quickly to the African Peace and Security Council in the AU and the UN to call for a reconstitution of an international mechanism to bring order in South Sudan, the youngest county in the world, which is unable to hold together because of what I can call “the extreme views and selfishness of the leaders” where each does not want to be any lesser than the other?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we will bring additional responses to the questions asked after recess. That is if we will go on recess this Thursday.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are talking about a matter over which Kenyans are very anxious. We know a lot of the information is readily available at the Ministry. Could the Chairperson make every effort possible to come back with answers on Thursday before we go for recess?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the media reports on what is happening in South Sudan is worrying. We saw images of hundreds of Kenyans stranded at the airport but no nationals of other countries could be traced there. That means that Kenyans were abandoned by the Government and we cannot allow that kind of a situation. Could the Vice Chair undertake to respond to these issues by Thursday so that in case we go on recess, we are assured of the lives of the many Kenyans who are in South Sudan because this is a serious matter? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we all notice that this is a very serious issue and we are being made to understand that the answers are available somewhere. Could the Chair undertake to bring the Cabinet Secretary (CS) concerned to this House so that we address the issue because this is urgent and serious?
Finally, Sen. Karaba.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am imagining how Kenyans are feeling in South Sudan and more so, in Juba. It is like a river which has marooned a village and there is no hope, not even from the sky, and there are no signs that this situation will end soon; that is the feeling they have. Could the Government take the quickest means or methods of transport possible, including using parachutes, to go and evacuate those people who are marooned because it is very serious? We are talking about people who are about to die literally and they are saying that we wait until after recess.
Order, Sen. Karaba, do you want Kenyans to be parachuted from Juba to Nairobi?
Exactly, we need to use the quickest possible way even if it means doing it today.
Order, Members. Vice Chair, saying that you will give a response after recess is anticipating debate and so it is not acceptable. More importantly, all the Members have demonstrated to you, in a very significant manner, the importance and the sensitivity of this particular issue and the need to secure and protect the lives of Kenyans in that particular country. The Chair directs that you bring a response on Thursday afternoon. In any case, you are building on an existing response. So, whoever prepares the response is already seized of the matters and you just need to deal with the issues that have arisen.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, much obliged.
Let us go to the next Statement. STATE OF MOGONGA-KENYENYA-NYANSIEMBE ROAD
The Chair is not here. Sen. Sijeny, do you have the response?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not have a response right now. I have informed Sen. Obure that the CS for Transport and Infrastructure will come to our Committee tomorrow. So, we shall get those clarifications.
Order, Members. I have previously advised that when we have no response, let the Chair and the Member know, so that we do not canvas the issues in the Plenary if there is an agreement unless there is a disagreement.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Chairperson spoke to me about that and we reached some understanding on that. I have no objections whatsoever and I will wait until the CS gives us the response. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Let us go to Statement (c) although I cannot see the Member here. FINANCING OF JARAMOGI-OGINGA-ODINGA TEACHING AND REFERRAL HOSPITAL
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am ready to execute the Statement but the Member is not here. So, I seek the indulgence of the Speaker to defer it because he was very keen on it.
Order, Mr. Chairman. I cannot see a copy of the Statement with you.
Okay, I believe you. We will wait until the time Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o will be around. For purposes of reorganisation of business, that Statement is deferred to Thursday. I think this is the second time we are deferring it. For those who have a bit of care and the neighbourhood of Kisumu County, you need to tell the Senator that it will be his last chance.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it Sen. Wetangula in your capacity as the Leader of that side?
On a point of order Mr. Speaker, Sir. I do recall Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’ Nyong’o informing me that he was travelling to Poland. So, Thursday may not be appropriate. I think it may be put off to after recess.
Order Sen. Wetangula!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am quite sure he told me that he was going to Poland and I am told he was not even available to Chair the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (CPAIC).
Order, Senator. I am just appreciating your initial statement. You do not need to add more. What is it Sen. Wangari?
On a point of order Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to seek your guidance on an issue that I had requested a statement on regarding Kenya Airways.
Order, Senator. From where I sit, I saw you were following the proceedings actively and engaging, even if not in the whole Plenary but in your neighborhood, then all of a sudden you spring a surprise on us. We are disposing of statement (c). What is it Sen. (Dr.) Machage? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order Mr. Speaker, Sir. If you heard Sen. Wetangula humbly requesting for the Statement to be delivered after recess, the fact that a Member has travelled to a far country is no indication that he may not be here tomorrow.
He is gone for a week.
That is the information you did not give us. If that is the information, then I am satisfied but just because he went to Poland, it does not mean that he will not arrive here tomorrow.
Order Members. The Minority Leader is engaging us in speculation. In fact, his eloquence deserted him and you could tell he was busy trying to confirm from other scenarios. I also know for a fact that he has written to me on another matter and given very clear directions implying his absence. But on this particular matter, he made no commentary. Under the circumstances, the Statement will be on the Order Paper on Thursday. It is the responsibility of the Member to request deferment or otherwise. This House cannot purport to be acting on his behalf without the necessary prayers being sought. I agree with Sen. (Dr.) Machage that this is now a property of the House but we are always sympathetic to the Member when he seeks alternative prayers. For now, the Chair is not aware of any.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am patiently waiting for my statement under Statement (f) but apparently a number of Senators are just rising on points of orders and requesting for their statements and yet they are not on the schedule.
I cannot agree more. The practice is that we exhaust what is on the Order Paper before you can raise the other concerns. I hope Sen. Cheruiyot and Sen. Wamatangi are with us. Let us move to Statement (d); Chairperson on Health to issue a statement on free maternity care by Government hospitals. Sen. (Prof.) Lesan!
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order Senator! We are not on your committees.
My apologies, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Today Senator, you might need to visit a doctor. IMPLEMENTATION OF GOVERNMENT POLICY ON FREE MATERNITY SERVICES
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not have an answer to this Statement on behalf of my Chair but I am informed that we have made two attempts to try and get an answer for this and we have not succeeded. I have informed the Senator who requested this answer about the situation. We have made a third attempt to try and get the answer and we believe that if we are given a day or two, we can try and present an answer on Thursday to the House.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is truly very unfortunate because I sought for this Statement on 16th June, 2016. To date, there is no indication. In fact, the Vice Chair then told me that the statement will be ready within a week. These are very serious issues. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
I recall vividly that last week, there was an attempt to sort out this matter. I allowed the Committee to deal with the matter today. So, I think you are abusing the generosity of the Chair. What is the exact problem, Sen. (Prof.) Lesan?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have made strenuous attempts to get an answer from the Cabinet Secretary in charge of health but unfortunately, there has not been a response in the last two times. Now, we have made it a third time to see whether we can get an answer. We understand the urgency and the seriousness about the mothers and the children crises in the maternity and we are trying our best to get the answer. If we are not able to get it through this way, then we have no recourse other than to ask the Cabinet Secretary to come and deliver the answer himself.
When do you expect the response a third time?
As I mentioned, Mr. Speaker, Sir, this effort has been going in the last two days and I hope that by Thursday we should be able to report to this House whether we have succeeded or not.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Sometimes when committees have challenges in obtaining responses, the majority leadership has always been ready to support. This is a serious matter. Would I be in order to request that you direct the Senate Majority Leader, in this case, being a hard working former teacher at the University of Nairobi to ensure that this answer is delivered by Thursday?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am a Member of the Committee on Health but for sometimes we have been having challenges because our Chair is---
Order, Sen. Nabwala! There is already a designated respondent. If you have any additional information you should have talked to the professor. We are not going to do committee business in the House. What is it Sen. (Prof.) Lesan?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. If you so direct that the Majority Leader assists the committee to get this answer, we would kindly accept the assistance to access the Cabinet Secretary so that he gives us an answer.
Order Sen. (Prof.) Lesan! My directives are not subject to your acceptance; they are orders. Sen. Sang has correctly observed that when the committees have difficulties, they always seek refuge and assistance from the Senate Majority Leader. You have not told us if you sought that assistance. So, we will provide that assistance. The Senate Majority Leader, you are ordered to get this statement that is outstanding to the House tomorrow afternoon. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): I beg the Chair to give me one extra day so that I am certain to get it so that tomorrow, I can look for the Cabinet Secretary---
Order, Senators. The Senate Majority Leader, time on matters does not begin by the time you assist on the matter. Time started running by the time the Statement was being sought and so by the time it reaches you, it is actually time barred. I am giving you 24 hours so that you at least come tomorrow and tell the House what you have done, your difficulties, your expectations and then you can ask for more time. On what basis are you asking for additional time?
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I fully agree with you, but just for guidance on when time starts running, in the case of the Senate Majority Leader; I thought it should run from now. But time for the Committee has been running, just specifically with due respect.
In fact, that is the point that I was clarifying to you that time does not run with the Senate Majority Leader being seized of the matter. In fact, by the time the Majority Leader is seized of the matter, time has expired. So it comes to you as an SoS; an emergency. When you have an emergency, you do not ask for more time, you deal with the situation. That is the concept.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to support him, on that decision. Sometimes, I get the impression that we are not sensitive enough to some of the issues being raised in this House. For example, the issue of free maternity care is an important matter. This issue has been on the Order Paper so many times and yet you get the feeling that even the relevant Committee is not taking the matter seriously. On the issue, for example, of the disappearance of children in one of our counties, in Nandi County---
Order! You need to be relevant to the statement. We have not yet reached there, so that is sufficient for the current one. But, indeed, I want to agree with Sen. Obure, and that is why the Senate Majority Leader might be thinking otherwise. There are some key core policy statements by the State at the highest level and you expect the Cabinet Secretary to be seized of that kind of matter. It is not just a matter of the State, this is an international committee meaning that the State has committed itself. So, when a few years down the road you are still struggling, what statement are we making to the citizens of the Republic? That is why it must be taken seriously because it is a key policy statement by the State from the highest office of the land. So, it should have systems in place for the information to be available. That is what it is guiding my directive. So, bring the answer tomorrow afternoon.
Let us go to Statement (e), by Sen. Dullo. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, taarifa ambayo nililiuza ilikuwa wazi kabisa. Haikuwa na pingamizi. Niko tayari kupokea jibu kutoka kwa dada yangu na sio lazima kwamba tujadiliane kwanza kabla hajaisoma. Niko tayari kupokea jibu hilo ili nitafakari zaidi. Kwa hivyo, niko tayari alisome.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Statement (f) is also mine. So, I am kindly requesting Sen. Madzayo to give me until Thursday because I do not know whether the Statement is properly answered. If he is okay with that, I can go ahead and read the response but I have not satisfied myself that it is properly answered or not.
Bwana Spika, sawa.
Thursday. Proceed to Statement (f) and assume you have a response. DISAPPEARANCE AND BRUTAL MURDER OF CHILDREN IN CHESUE VILLAGE, NANDI HILLS
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not have a response but I have a letter from the Ministry. I have tried pushing for this Statement to be given to me today but I have an official communication from the Ministry which I can read to the House. Unfortunately, I have gone personally to the Ministry to meet the Cabinet Secretary on this matter but according to this letter, it is addressed to the Clerk of the Senate. “Request for response to statement regarding the increased disappearances and murder of children aged eight and 16 years in Chesuwe Village, Nandi Hills, Nandi County. Reference is made to your letter Ref. No. Sen/NSF/R/OR/04320/16 dated 14th July 2016 on the above subject matter. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is where you find yourself in an awkward situation as a Senator when you seek Statements on the issues that are sensitive and urgent. In this particular matter, we are talking about disappearances of five children; two were found murdered and three are still missing. This is the third week and the Ministry insists that they need two more weeks when we are talking about the whereabouts of three missing children. This is where the Ministry and its officers need to take the lives of Kenyans seriously. The casual manner with which this Ministry and the Cabinet Secretary is taking this matter as raised in this House is upon the Chair. The fate of the three children who are missing to date is on whether the government agencies at the ground have not shared any information as to their whereabouts or the information as to the progress. In terms of investigation the Cabinet Secretary is telling us that they require two more weeks to prepare the response. I think this Ministry is not taking the lives of Kenyans seriously. The Cabinet Secretary is busy issuing warnings and orders of taking people to court instead of concentrating on giving us answers to serious issues like these. We do not have the luxury of two weeks. I request that you direct that the Senate Majority Leader has to step in because this is a serious matter.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, under the doctrine of social contract, the cardinal responsibility of the Government is to protect the lives and properties of its citizens. I can feel the pain the distinguished Senator for Nandi is feeling. Children disappeared from a village and two were found dead. The presumption is that the three may also be dead. We cannot be told that information is being sought when the Government has agencies and agents everywhere in the country; starting from the village elders, the assistant chiefs, chiefs and everybody else, not to mention the police. This is a matter where this House -as the protector of counties, their Governments and consequently their people - must demand cogent and urgent answers on a matter where innocent children have disappeared and two found dead. This is a matter that I would have expected the Chair of the Committee not to procrastinate in the manner we are seeing, but to demand even the Cabinet Secretary who has been generous in dishing out warnings to Opposition leaders on how he will arrest, wash and teargas us, to tell us the fate of this children.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, listening to the delays that we have from the Ministry, especially on such matters, we need to come up with a time limit on the answers, reasonably even within four days. If a Ministry is well organized, it can have specific officials who are thoroughly following up and ready to act on the questions coming from Parliament. The data is already there; it is a question of just systematically putting them through. From the response, I fear that there is no definiteness about the two weeks. It looks like even after two weeks we might still not have an answer. Somebody The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to add my voice, fully aware that I am a Member of that Committee. In all honesty, we are talking about the lives of our children. A line Ministry that has a full mandate, with a budgetary allocation, personnel and all the organs and institutions, should give Kenyans the answer. Two weeks down the line, five lives have been lost. We are talking about a matter that infringes on Article 26 of the Constitution, under the Bill of Rights. Everybody has a right to life. It is a pity that we are now being told that an entire Ministry cannot give this House, on behalf of Kenyans, an answer as to what is happening to our own children. In all honesty, we cannot wait one day, two days or one week. The Cabinet Secretary in charge should be summoned to this House, to tell Kenyans what is happening to our children, in not any other lesser words. To be honest, I am lost for words to even sit here and listen that an entire Cabinet Secretary, his Principal Secretary (PS) and all the officers in that Ministry cannot tell us that they have even a preliminary report on what they have gathered from the ground about what is happening to these children. It is completely unacceptable.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this statement has been pending here for some time. You gave a directive as late as last week that it should be answered. These children are neither goats nor sheep; they are not cows that are stolen or a car that is lost in a normal robbery. These are lives of small innocent Kenyans aged 8 to 16. It begs the question: What is so particular about the 8 to 16-year-olds that are being kidnapped and killed in this village? To have a Cabinet Secretary who earns a salary and allowances every month, including 24-hour protection, asking for two more weeks starting today is untenable and uncalled for. The said Cabinet Secretary and the PS must resign. No single soul, whatsoever, should be taken for granted.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a serious matter. One of the reasons I have risen to add my voice on this issue is that Chesumei, the village from where these children disappeared is next to my county. The following week after the children disappeared, similar cases have been reported in areas like Bureti and parts of my county. When I observe the casual nature in which this matter is being handled and the response that we are receiving - being told that we should give the Ministry two more weeks – we realize that there is a problem. We have a Cabinet Secretary who is in charge. What is his job if he cannot at the very primary level protect the lives of children who are totally defenseless? For a long time, we have been saying that we need strategic minds to head our security functions. We need to move away from being told that since so-and-so is a retired General and so on, he is fit to head a Ministry. We are living in the digital age. If you scan a particular area at a particular time, you are able to tell the individuals that are active. I am not a trained security mind, but I know the basic things like where I would start my assessment from. We have a Cabinet Secretary whose only interest is to drive around Harambee Avenue with his chase cars pushing us off the way. I agree with Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo that if the job is too heavy for him he should resign. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, my younger brother, Sen. Cheruiyot, pre- empted what I wanted to say. I am glad that with the powers and privileges that we have as Members of Parliament (MPs), no teargas shall be unleashed on him for asking for the resignation of the concerned Cabinet Secretary. There is an element of cluelessness on the part of the government. When citizens disappear and the Government cannot offer a reasonable explanation and they still need time to find out whether the children disappeared, it shows that the Government is clueless. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the extent of cluelessness grows beyond Chesue Village in Nandi County. There is a situation where children are burning schools and the same Cabinet Secretary expected to give a response is still clueless. He is sitting in a Committee and we expect miracles and magic from him? I join those who are saying that the Cabinet Secretary involved is showing strains of incompetence. If he cannot present himself to this House, then he should not only resign, but also the Senator for Nandi County should join this side of the House where there are Members who have a clue on what is going on in this nation; the Senator for Kericho County as well.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also condemn the disappearance of the five children and the two who were found dead. The Cabinet Secretary and the PrincipalSecretary are sleeping on the job. They are very active when it comes to chasing people who are demonstrating about IEBC which is a serious matter affecting our people. However, when it comes to the disappearance of a person, it comes later, long after the person is found dead. I am afraid that the three children might also have been killed.The legislators want an explanation because we are the representatives of the people. Therefore, we must see how we can protect our children.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I share the sentiments which have been expressed already. In fact, what I wanted to say has been captured. However, I feel that this raises a fundamental issue. The casual manner in which matters raised in this House are handled by the respective Ministries, shows that something ought to be done. Imagining that you are the parent of a missing child, in this case five children and two of them are found murdered, yet there is someone employed by the Government right from Chesue in Nandi County to the Cabinet Secretary himself, it is very sad. This issue has been appearing in our Order Paper several times without any response. We should demand that the Cabinet Secretary responsible resigns and the disciplinary action is taken against officers down the line. This is to demonstrate that the government cares for the lives of its citizens.
The Senate Majority Leader, I know you did not ask, but I want to hear your views.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join my colleagues in condemning any lethargy or delay by any State officer, in this particular The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Members! I cannot agree more with what the Members have expressed. I order that the Chair of the Committee writes to the Cabinet Secretary. We need that Statement on Thursday. Failure to do so, this House will take the necessary sanctions against the responsible Cabinet Secretary. That is true too for the Statement sought from the Cabinet Secretary of the Ministry of Health. In the meantime, the Senate Majority Leader must also take his responsibility of dealing with such kind of Cabinet Secretaries who are embarrassing the Government. He should make necessary presentations to the relevant offices. Our children are now protected in our Constitution because they are vulnerable. We have been told that two have been confirmed dead. So, you can imagine the fear that the presumption on the remaining ones is the same. Time is of the essence. If there is one Ministry that has its tentacles all over the country, then it is this one in question. How can it fail to deliver on such basic information? The public officers must do their jobs and be accountable to the Kenyan people. The business of Parliament is to ensure that accountability is done. Those are my directions. There will be subsequent ones if they persistently fail to deliver on their mandate. Hon. Members, as we conclude the Statements for today and revisiting other issues, may I make a Communication.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I requested for a statement from the Implementation Committee on 19th June on the resolutions of the Senate on the state of affairs in Kenya Airways Limited. Although that Statement is not due yet, it is a matter of national importance. In fact, it is only last week that the company posted very serious losses. I request for the Chairperson to be directed to issue the Statement on Thursday instead of Tuesday, next week.
The Statement is due on 2nd August 2016. However, I agree with you that given the issues around it, it should be delivered on Thursday, this week. POOR STATE OF ROADS AND BRIDGES IN WEST POKOT COUNTY
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Last month, I sought three Statements, but none of them has been responded to even after you directed The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
I direct that the urgent statement on the collapsing bridge should appear on tomorrow’s Order Paper while the others appear on Thursday, this week.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to comment on the statement that was raised by Sen. Wangari. I am the Vice-Chairperson of the Committee. Therefore, I will make sure that is done.
Sen. Kanainza, do you mean that you will respond to that statement on Thursday?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will take up the matter with my Committee so that we give response before we break for recess.
Order, Sen. Kanainza! I would like to know whether it is your Chairperson we will receive the response from. However, since you have undertaken that task, you will be the one to responsible for that statement.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Committee on Roads and Transport in which I sit, has previously summoned the Cabinet Secretary to respond to that specific issue. I do not know whether it will be proper for the Committee to bring the response because the Cabinet Secretary appeared before us and came with a written statement. I do not know whether it would be proper for us to hand that statement to the Committee on Implementation or bring it to the House to avoid a situation where we call the Cabinet Secretary to respond to the same matter on two occasions.
We always encourage Committees to work together. Therefore, I cannot be of help. The Statement is with the Implementation Committee because the House resolved on that particular matter. However, you can work together as Committees so that the implementation Committee can give the information. Let us proceed to the other orders. Looking at the Order Paper, there are a lot of Divisions. However, we do not have the requisite numbers. Therefore, we will skip Order Nos.8, 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Please, proceed, Sen. Wetangula. You have 56 minutes.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. As Sen. Wetangula was contributing, just before the rise of the House, he made a statement that at certain periods, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Zani! We only transfer a balance of time. We do not transfer statements.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I said no to such thing. I said that we should not abuse nomination by ignoring a woman in El Molo or another in the fringes of Turkana County in favour of women who are able to hobnob in hotels with the---
Order, the Senate Minority Leader! I disallowed that point of order. Why are you attempting to respond to it?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you. Since I had only spoken for just three minutes before we adjourned, I would like to start by affirming my absolute commitment to affirmative action. I would also like to affirm my commitment as a leader in the House, a party and a presidential candidate to the cause of our women who have been disadvantaged in many respects and who have been disenfranchised in many electoral processes. Mr. Speaker, Sir, when we go to elections, the distinguished Senator for Tharaka- Nithi County vies in the village where he was born and grew up; a place where he made friends and enemies in equal measure, sometimes. The people who go to vote for him are those that know him very well. However, our daughters and sisters who are married in the neigbouring counties, have identity problems. The people of that county would like one of their own. They will ask about her parents and all manner of things. Therefore, it takes a milestone to get distinguished persons like former Cabinet Secretary, hon. Charity Ngilu, born in Mbooni and married in Kitui to be repeatedly elected with landslide victory. They are very few of such situations. Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are also women in a minority who have stood, competed and defeated men such as hon. Cecily Mbarire, hon. Millie Odhiambo and a distinguished MCA in my county who has been elected three times. There is every indication that she will be elected again in the next election. However, a majority of the women cannot stand the rough tumble of competitive politics. A monopoly of hooligans surround them that intimidate women candidates to the extent where campaigning on an even ground becomes very difficult. That is why it is important that affirmative action be entrenched, supported and implemented to give women an opportunity to join in this electoral and post-electoral arrangement. Even in this House, we have persons like yourself, elected in your own right previously, but now nominated to this House and performing your duties with total distinction. I can say this of very many of our ladies in this House. Last week when I was concluding my speech for the day that appeared to make the sponsor of the Bill both uncomfortable and unhappy, I said, and I say this without any apologies that, first, affirmative action is not open-ended. It always has some sunset. It is a therapy, a measure that is meted to improve situations. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is the Senate Minority Leader in order to make fun of such a brutal attack that took place against a lady on Kenyan soil? I am talking of the case involving Mr. Kofi Olomide, the musician. Time has come for this country to make a very strong statement that we do not condone violence against women, not the least in public. Is he in order, given that he aspires to be President, to joke around with a serious issue of an attack against women on Kenyan soil?
The Senate Minority Leader, please, take your seat. I will allow two more points of order. Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Zani.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Let me start by commending Kenyans who reacted very quickly. Therefore, is Sen. Wetangula in order to dilute the whole statement that Kenyans have made clearly? People are listening to him. He is our leader. What he says is critical, but could he correct that assertion about Kofi Olomide because battering is battering. There is nothing like extending a leg or anything to anybody. There is nothing that will be extended with force and we call it extension. If you hit somebody, you have hit him or her. People are hit in private. This one had the audacity to do it in public. It will not happen again. We do not want that sort of thing.
Proceed, Sen. Nabwala. Are you on a point of order? Have you retracted?
Proceed, Sen. Hassan.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is the Senate Majority Leader in order to say that the musician only extended a leg to a dancer when The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
The Senate Minority Leader, you were giving a very elaborate point before all these points of order. You have to clear the air because what we are making reference to is very serious. It is not about extending a leg. Do you accept a point of information from the Senate Majority Leader?
Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker, Sir.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, this is just for information. We, as leaders, do not want to trivialize this matter. The reason the Government of Kenya deported the accused person is because the complainant refused to give evidence and retracted while what happened was in the glare of the whole world. That is the only reason we found that it would be untenable to host Mr. Olomide in this country after what he did. The complainant who was the sole witness on the scene retracted. I think she was confused. She started saying how Mr. Kofi Olomide loves her and did not intend to kick her. At no time did she talk about the leg being extended to her.
The Senate Minority Leader, please, clear the air.
Madam Temporary Speaker, if my colleagues did not jump on points of order, I would have finished my point. I was talking of the manner in which the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and Coordination of National Government has been acting in serious contradictions of our expectations. When I talked about Mr. Kofi Olomide, in fact, Sen. Hassan literally took words out of my mouth. The distinguished Senator for Tharaka-Nithi is a professor of law. He knows that in all cases of grievous assault like what we saw, the complainant is not an individual. It is the State. If you commit a homicide, the complainant is the State, the Republic of Kenya. It is the Republic versus the murderer, the Republic versus the assailant, the Republic versus the robber or the Republic versus the thief. It is never distinguished Sen. Ongoro versus me as an assailant, for instance. It is the case of the Republic versus so and so, because the complainant is the Republic that is the custodian of everybody’s peace and security. With the footage that we saw, if it was true, it was sufficient to take this Congolese man to court and charge him with assault, behaving in a manner likely to cause a breach of peace and all manner of coinages of crime that the State is so good at doing in collaboration with the policemen. In fact, in the footage, there was a Kenyan woman who said, “ Sasa wanapigana wenyewe kwa wenyewe ? The complainant did not have to say she was beaten. She was seen being beaten. There were witnesses. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is the Senate Minority Leader in order to belittle the process he himself championed very hard before 2010 when he was among the front runners in the “Yes” camp, campaigning to pass the Constitution that created small regions called counties? If he was of the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Madam Temporary Speaker, the distinguished Senator was in the “No” camp and they were running around with Hon. William Ruto with red cards. The only point they were talking about was homosexuality which was fraudulent and false because it was not in the Constitution. They never talked about the issue that I am talking about. In any case, only fools have got minds that Lenin said are like concrete, all mixed up and permanently set. However, if you are not a fool, you have the right to change your mind any time. Besides, when we went to the referendum, there was the group with red cards that was saying; Rekebisha tupitishe and there was a group of us who said; Pitisha turekebishe . So, each one of us agreed that there was something in the Constitution that needed to be changed. Rekebisha tupitishe and Pitisha turekebishe were the competing philosophies about the Constitution. I was among those who were saying; pitisha turekebishe . This is the time for us to start thinking of kurekebisha . Although he is a professor of Mathematics, I believe that along his readings, he has read some philosophy, law and basics. Every new Constitution the world over is subjected to a public audit after five years to see whether all the contents work for the people and if they are sustainable or not. That is why I am surprised that every time we say let us look at the Constitution, Jubilee Members start saying that tunataka nusu mkateama sijui nini, but we are not interested in being part of this corrupt Government. We want a good Constitution to help run the country. This can only be done in a bi-partisan manner.
On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.
Professor, I will give you the last point of order, so that we allow the Senate Minority Leader to conclude.
He has very many minutes and I have to assist him use some of them. Madam Temporary Speaker, is the Senate Minority Leader in order to say this Government is corrupt? I know his daughter and other people’s children are employed by this Government. Is he in order to say all civil servants working in this Government are corrupt? He should withdraw that statement and apologise.
Hon. Senator, I find nothing out of order. If you have contrary statements, please, present them. He has made his points and you will get your time to present a contrary position. Therefore, he is not out of order.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I do not even need to respond, but the distinguished Senator knows that if he goes to his county and says this Government is not corrupt, he will be shown the door. I have talked to him and he knows what we have talked.
Do not disclose what you have talked with him, but stick to your contribution on the Bill.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I want to rush so that I give room to my colleagues. I was dealing with Clause 5 where the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Hon. Senator, you have had enough points of order. I would give this chance to Sen. Bule; proceed you have the Floor. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Is it my point of order or my statement, Madam Temporary Speaker?
It is a point of order.
Madam Temporary Speaker, my point of order is that the Constitution is very clear and it has allowed women. We are equally elected---
Hon. Senator, what is out of order? You are on a point of order so direct us to what is out of order.
Madam Temporary Speaker, my point of order is that we do not have to create a new constituency for women while we have 47 women who are elected.
Hon. Senator, you are out of order because what you are giving is a contribution on this. You are not pointing out what was out of order. Hon. Senator, proceed.
Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I thought the distinguished Senator was offended by my assertion that women sit in this House longer than the men. He then pursued a completely different trajectory that was irrelevant to what I was saying, but we forgive him. Madam Temporary Speaker, I want to conclude by encouraging Sen. Sijeny, the Senator sponsoring this Bill, that we do not want to throw out the baby with the bath water. This House is unlikely to find favour with the Clause allowing nominations in perpetuity. This House is unlikely to find favour with Clause 4(1)(a) and (b). She should find a way of giving us a firm commitment that she will change the Bill then we will vote overwhelmingly for it. If that remains the same, she has my qualified support. I noticed that many Senators had similar thinking; that we want the revolving door to give room for as many women as possible. Sen. Wangari is here; she will run and next time her daughter should follow or somebody else other than entrenching Sen. Wangari here for over 15 years as if there are no other people out there. Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to support to the extent that I have said and I hope that at the Committee stage, we will see something restructured, recast and meeting our expectations as we support firmly the one-third gender rule and affirmative action for our women.
Madam Temporary Speaker, when Kenyans spoke as we promulgated the Constitution in 2010, it was very clear that not more than two-thirds of the same gender should hold a particular position. Sometimes we refer to it as the two- thirds rule and sometimes as one-third gender rule because gender is a social construct. It is not men or women, it is not sex. Gender is a social construct, but because that social construct in a patriarchal society like Kenya has tended towards discrimination for women, when we talk about the one third, we are talking about the affirmation for this one third to be able to come up. Kenyans made that decision. When we started this debate, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale raised a point of order to question the whole idea of the Bill being properly before the House. In my understanding, that provision and principle is already in place. What is not in place and what we are trying to do now is to come up with a legislative framework for us to achieve that. It is interesting because without that sort anchoring, it becomes difficult for women to move to leadership positions. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of information, Madam Temporary Speaker.
Sen. (Dr.) Zani, do you wish to be informed by Sen. (Prof.)Lonyangapuo?
Madam Temporary Speaker, I would like to be informed.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I want to inform Sen. (Dr.) Zani that as far AS we know, the strongest candidates in a nomination are delivered by their own individual parties. Likewise, the respective Senators are elected in their counties. For that reason, our nominated colleagues are here strongly to safeguard the interests of the institutions that we stand for. Therefore, any other person that may purport to imagine that people come here through a different process is really misled.
Thank you, Senator. Conclude, Professor.
Madam Temporary Speaker, ‘professor’ sounds good as well. I hope it will come true in the next few years. This is exactly the tone that we need to set. We have professions and other things that we need to move on to do in different spheres of life. It is important for that tag; some people are bothered by it and some are not. It reflects negatively when a society The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Kindly, conclude Senator.
Madam Temporary Speaker, thank you for giving me the two minutes to conclude. It is important to support all the women of Kenya because they are the future women leaders. I support.
Madam Temporary Speaker, may I commend the Mover of this Bill on the amendment of the two-thirds gender principle. She is putting a lot of effort to move this Bill. I support this Bill because it is about the Constitution which was voted overwhelmingly by the people of Kenya. When Kenyans voted for Articles 97 and 98on the composition of the Senate and the National Assembly, they knew they were voting about the numbers which would affect the wage bill. Madam Temporary Speaker, in my view, we have seen many women making effort and in 2017, there will be many women vying. We may be talking about a lesser number of women being nominated because I am hoping there will be more women who will come through the elective position. This Bill proposes that political parties should embrace women and work closely with them. It is through the political parties that we will enable women to get to elective positions. Therefore, we need our party leaders to be positive because they are the ones who will give the nominations. If they do not, then I do not see us going far in actualizing the affirmative action of the Bill. Madam Temporary Speaker, I am a Member of the International Parliamentary Union in Geneva where we meet twice a year. We have 168 countries who have subscribed to the Union. One of the sustainable development goals number five is about gender parity. We normally give progress of what each member state is doing to actualise the position. Rwanda is the leading country because it has more women in elective and The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. Nabwala, kindly stick to the point.
Madam Temporary Speaker, the clause about having a chance for a second nomination is to curb the nomination being given four or five times. If for the second time, I stood for an elective post and garnered 30 000 votes, I have added the votes to my presidential candidate. Therefore, he or she should recognise the effort that I have made. We also spend money when campaigning because it is not a free undertaking. We know that campaigns in Kenya are expensive. So, on that basis, women should be given a second opportunity for our nomination if we can prove that we did a good job. However, if we do not, then we miss the nomination and another is granted the opportunity where she will continue building capacity. Madam Temporary Speaker, the gender parity is not about women. It is a signal that I am giving to the men. In the next 10 years, men will be crying to us wanting to have the affirmative action. That time, we shall be smart enough and we will know how to deal with them. Thank you. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Thank you, Senator. I do not see any further requests to contribute on this. So, before I give the Chair of the Kenya Women Senators Association (KEWOSA) who is the sponsor of the Bill to respond, may I give two minutes to Sen. Bule to seek a Statement.
Thank you Madam Temporary Speaker. I pray to seek a Statement.
Madam Temporary Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order No. 45 (2) (b), I rise to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relation regarding the dismissal from service of Private Abdirrahman Omar Mathei, an infantry man at the Third Battalion of Kenya Rifle, Kenya Army, Service No. 55662. In the Statement, the Chairperson should:- (i) State whether he is aware that Private Omar was discharged from the service of Kenya Army for completion of colour service vide a discharge authority dated 24th September, 2008. (ii) Explain the circumstances that led to the dismissal of the said officer by authority of the dismissal date indicated as 14th April 2009. (iii) Explain the circumstances under which the officer who had a distinguished service for 25 years was dismissed even after he had been honourably discharged from service and given a 90 days terminal leave. (iv) Indicate when the dues of the said officer will be paid to him for the 25 years service that he rendered to this country. Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.
Sen. Sijeny, kindly undertake to relay information to the Chairperson of the Committee on the on National Security and Foreign Relations.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I undertake to relay the information sought to the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations.
You further undertake to relay the information after how many weeks?
Madam Temporary Speaker, the practice is two weeks. I request for two weeks to respond.
We will be on recess by that time, but I hope that we will get the response the first week after we resume. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Madam Temporary Speaker, perhaps I am coming in a bit late, but I would like to support the statement that has been sought by Sen. Bule because he raised a burning issue across the board. In addition to that, I would like to add that the Chair should highlight why there is such delay so that we understand what is happening because that is an issue that touches on quite a number of officers. It is only fair that after they have served their country diligently for long, they need to be given their dues in good time.
Sen. Sijeny, kindly factor in that when you relay the information. You can now proceed to give your response to the Bill.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity. I wish to thank all the Senators who have contributed to this Bill. I do not take it for granted. I know that they have taken their time. Some researched well, listened and came up with very good ideas. First and foremost, I wish to respond and say that before this Bill was tabled, or sponsored at the Senate, there was very wide consultation. We consulted widely and I wish to record that it is the Attorney-General who was the convener of the meeting where all stakeholders who deal with women issues came, discussed and researched widely. We know the tremendous efforts by the National Gender and Equality Commission (NGEC), especially the Chairperson, Madam Winfred Lichuma, who has given all her time and put her best foot forward to ensure that this Bill comes to reality. Madam Temporary Speaker, I wish to inform my colleagues that many formulas were discussed and debated. This was the best option out of all the ones that were suggested by the various Non-Governmental Organizations (NGOs), the Law Society of Kenya (LSK) and many others. It was exposed to a lot of public participation. Therefore, what is in the Bill is well thought out. This affirmative action is not only a Kenyan initiative. It is a global initiative because many countries internationally and within the region have embraced this affirmative action. Zimbabwe, for instance, started implementing affirmative action in the year 2013 after their elections and they have complied. What we are bringing here is something similar. I was sent to Rwanda on Thursday to represent the Senate in the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association Conference which dealt with Commonwealth women parliamentary issues. What came out is that what we have put in this Bill is what all the Commonwealth countries are urging their member states to ensure that they have constitutional, legislative and political ways of ensuring and encouraging women participation. Madam Temporary Speaker, by coming up with this Bill, it should not be seen that it is us who have been nominated that are looking for a second chance of nomination. It is our role as the women of Kenya and the world to ensure that we improve and increase women participation. That is why we are enshrined in the Constitution. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
The Senate Majority Leader, please, do not harass Sen. Sijeny as she replies to this important Bill. Please, take your time, Sen. Sijeny.
Madam Temporary Speaker, the Senate Majority Leader was not here on Thursday when my colleagues were devouring and being unkind to me. I have the HANSARD here to prove it. However, two wrongs do not make a right. As a woman and leader, I must show that we can rise above pettiness and focus on the main issues. I also wish Sen. Wetangula was here. We, as Kenya Women Parliamentarians Association (KEWOPA) and Kenya Women Senators Association (KEWOSA), have mentored so many women so far. You all know that we do not have a financial kitty that supports our activities. We, as Senators, use our minimal resources to reach out to other women, both professional and non-professional. We have mentored many young professionals even in the villages. We go everywhere because our mandate is not restricted to counties even though we are The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Are you requesting that we put the question at a later date?
Madam Temporary Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order No.54(3), I beg to move that you defer putting of the question to a later date.
It is accepted. The question will be put tomorrow. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Just to jog our minds, debate on this Bill was adjourned under Standing Order No.99 to allow for consultations. I think you have consulted. So, debate can resume. Therefore, the Floor is open. Proceed, Senate Majority Leader (Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki).
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, what you have said is the correct position. However, we need your guidance whether it should be moved afresh. It was first stepped down for consultations. Or is it that the debate should continue?
No, it should not be moved afresh. The Floor is now open for anyone wishing to contribute. I believe you have now consulted enough. That is as per Standing Order No.99. We do not have to move it afresh. Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Zani.
Madam Temporary Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this Bill. From the outset, I support this Bill. This is an amendment Bill that seeks to align it with the Constitution. It is very clear in the Fourth Schedule. The distribution of functions between the national and county governments has been clearly stipulated. I refer to county government’s specificity in terms of what they are meant to do. They have a function as far as county health services are concerned, specifically county health facilities. They have a jurisdiction for the functions across county health facilities, pharmacies and promotion of primary healthcare. From the outset, this Bill has to be well anchored in a devolved system. There is no way that can be done without creating new structures and giving those structures responsibilities that make it possible for this organ to be well entrenched in the Constitution, the counties and have synchrony between the two. That is why the aspect of introducing an authority is important. This is the apex. This authority will have a national mandate linking directly with the counties. Therefore, that amendment at Clause 2 where we are adding an authority to run the specific responsibilities is important. Madam Temporary Speaker, at Clause 3, specific additional definitions are put in so that we anchor this Bill clearly within a devolved system. These terminologies and definitions were not there in the principal Act. We have definitions about the council which in this case is referring to a council of county governors. We have definitions The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
There being no further requests, I call upon the mover to reply.
Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move and request that you defer the putting of the question to a later date under Standing Order No. 54(3).
Request is granted. We will cluster it with the others for tomorrow.
Since Sen. Wangari is not in the House, Second Reading of the Bill is deferred.
The Senate Majority Leader.
Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move:- THAT the Parliamentary Powers and Privileges Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 35 of 2014) be read a Second Time. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Is it six or eight other Members?
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, the Speaker is the Chairperson of the Committee. For the National Assembly, it is 14 other Members and for the Senate it is six. That is something we can confirm but the Bill that I have from the Government Printer talks about six. Madam Temporary Speaker, allow me to say the work of this Committee is to help in the enforcement part so that you do not have security officers dealing with the enforcement of professional issues. As much as possible, security officers should not be used to deal with political disputes and matters that arise out of the transaction of politics. So, it is a very powerful committee and important in terms of dealing with some of the issues of discipline. Allow me to highlight some of the things that they may enforce; issues of assault, obstruction of members of staff and Members of Parliament. No one may assault, obstruct or harass them, no one shall cause disturbance whether it is in plenary or committee and including issues of members of the public. If they are given instructions by the security officers on how and when to access or not to access certain places in Parliament, they should comply. If they do not comply, then that matter will be taken up. There is a whole section of enforcement and in case of infringement of the immunities and privileges. There are enough penalties provided for so that members do not use immunities and privileges to cause disturbance, chaos, violence, assault to other members, intimidate, threaten or injure visitors to Parliament or people who appear before parliamentary committees and so on. Madam Temporary Speaker, I do not want to belabor the importance of this Bill but to say that this Bill will help us realize that Kenya is now a bicameral Parliament and that way, some of the provisions apply to the Senate and the National Assembly separately. For example, the Powers and Privileges Committees; we have one for the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to second this very important Bill; The Parliamentary Powers and Privileges Bill, 2014 whose objective is very clear. The Mover stated very clearly that the National Assembly Powers and Privileges Act, Cap 6 which is the current law on this subject did not envisage a bicameral parliament. Therefore, this Bill is moved today so that we can debate on the various clauses that the Mover talked about. The main objective of the Parliamentary Powers and Privileges Bill, 2014 is to give effect to Article 117 of the Constitution. We know that Article 117 (1) of the Constitution talks about freedom of speech and debate in Parliament. Parliament may for the purpose of orderly and effective discharge of the business of Parliament provide for the powers, privileges, immunities of Parliament, its committees, the leader of the majority party, the leader of the minority party, the chairpersons of committees and members. Madam Temporary Speaker, the Mover has touched on all these items and I would like to support the Bill because it is important particularly to legislators because when we stand here to speak, we sometimes speak about matters that are sensitive. The Bill seeks to protect us from legal suits and give us powers, privileges and immunity.This Bill sets out the code of conduct within Parliament. It also protects the precincts of Parliament. The Al Shabaab have bombed supermarkets in the past because of laxity in security checks. The Bill gives impetus to our security arrangements within Parliament. I support this Bill on that basis. Some Members of Parliamenthave been harassed for not conducting themselves in a proper manner. For example, we saw what happened in the National Assembly when the President was delivering his Speech during the Joint Sitting of Parliament early this year . Hon. Opiyo Wandayi was ordered out of Parliament by the Speaker. We will have a Committee that will listen to contentious and conflicting matters. We have also had cases where governors appear before the Senate and are confronted by some Members. We do not want governors to be mishandled and thrown out of the Committee rooms by the orderlies. If we have a Committee in place to handle such matters, we shall have a better way of conducting our business without disruption. The Mover also talked about two joint committees that will be formed by the National Assembly and the Senate. Both committees will be headed by the Speakers. These committees will be important because they will bring together the two Houses and promote the bicameral system. We are supposed to work together so as to serve the public better. Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to second the Bill and thank the Mover. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Madam Temporary Speaker, I stand to support this Bill. We have key organs in this country; the Judiciary, Legislature and Executive. The legislative body is incubated by Parliament, which by all means, is a symbolic and key organ in terms of ensuring that the legislative arm is catered for. A lot of things happen in Parliament. Members of Parliament are recognized and acknowledged to have a lot to offer within their societies in coming up with the right legislation. This Bill is titled ‘The Parliamentary Powers and Privileges Bill (National Assembly Bill No.35 of 2014).’ It includes both the National Assembly and the Senate. Madam Temporary Speaker, I think all aspects of the operations of what happens within Parliament are well catered for. The Bill is extensive and it gives details. It does not leave anything to chance because every aspect has been well tackled. The Bill provides for the precincts of Parliament by giving geographical position. It also provides for the privileges and immunities of Members and the Committee Members both at the Senate and the National Assembly. The membership of the proposed Committee will be the Speaker of the National Assembly Chairing the six Members and 14 Members drawn from the Senate and the National Assembly respectively. It also gives the provision of summoning of the witnesses when required. Further, it gives clear provisions about publications and broadcasting and especially how the material that is used from publication and broadcasting can be used so that it is not abused. Madam Temporary Speaker, in the Fourth Schedule, it clearly gives a code of conduct that is meant to help Members of Parliament in their day to day business. As usual, we do not rely on media reports as evidence. That has been confirmed too. The issue about carrying guns is also addressed. Parliament is a House of decorum and Members are expected to dialogue and not fight or utter adverse words against each other. The precincts of Parliament have been well defined. In sub-clause (2), the definition becomes key. Where Parliament sits outside the precincts of Parliament, such a place shall be deemed to be the precincts of Parliament precincts. This is key for the Senate because we may have a sitting in counties. Our sitting in a county will therefore be deemed a Senate House. Madam Temporary Speaker, we have protection from debt, civil and criminal suits, freedom of speech and that no proceedings or decisions of Parliament can be questioned by any court of law. It gives an allowance from freedom of expression. There is also protection of the members of stafftaking minutes. The information of the Committee should not be shared beyond the Committee sitting. Where there is a contravening situation, there is a provision on how to address it. There are penalties that have been given to curb such practice. It has been said right from the beginning that the threshold for these penalties needs to be clear. Therefore, from the onset of a committee meeting,it is important to sort out the issue of threshold on the punishment that can be meted out on what has been committed. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
There being no other interests. I call upon the Mover to reply.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to reply. However, given that we do not have the requisite numbers to vote, I beg to move that you direct that putting of the Question be deferred to a later date.
Your request is granted. We cluster it with those that will be put on Thursday.
(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Madam Temporary Speaker, looking at the time, and considering that the Bill has to be moved and seconded, I request that you defer Order No.18 as well as the next one on assisted reproductive technology to tomorrow so that we can have ample time to debate. I do not think that I can move it in four minutes and have it seconded.
Your request is granted. We defer Order Nos.18 and 19
The Chairperson of the Sessional Committee on County Public Accounts and Investments is not in the House. Therefore, that Order is deferred.
Next order! NOTING OF REPORT OF THE COMMONWEALTH WOMEN PARLIAMENTARIANS REGIONAL CAPACITY BUILDING WORKSHOP
THAT, the Senate notes the Report of the Commonwealth Women Parliamentarians Regional Capacity Building Workshop held in Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania on 20th – 23rd January, 2016 laid on the Table of the House on Thursday, March 17, 2016.
Sen. Gwendo is not in the House. Therefore, that Motion is deferred.
Next order! COUNTRYWIDE AUDIT ON THE DISTRIBUTION OF TEACHERS IN ALL PUBLIC SCHOOLS WHEREAS Article 43(1)(f) and 53(1)(b) of the Constitution guarantees every citizen a right to education and every child a right to free and compulsory basic education, respectively; The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. Khaniri is also not in the House. Therefore, that Motion is deferred.
Hon. Senators, there being no other business, the Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, 28th July, 2016 at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate