Mr. Speaker, Sir, on behalf of the Senate Majority Leader---
Order, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo! Your request was not granted so on what basis are you talking? Take your seat and do the proper thing. I understand the excitement of acting as the Senate Majority Leader, but you must still follow the procedures. Put a request. Does it mean that you do not have your card? Proceed, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo. You can move to the Dispatch Box. ADJOURNMENT OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO THE APPROVED CALENDAR FOR THE 2016 SESSION
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to give notice of the following Motion on behalf of the Senate Majority Leader:- THAT, pursuant to Standing Order 28(3), the Senate do adjourn until Tuesday, 13th September, 2016. RENEWAL OF MANDATE OF AD HOC COMMITTEE ON CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES
Thank you, Mr. Speaker Sir. I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, aware that the Senate resolved to establish a Select Committee comprising 11 Senators to inquire into the policy on legislation on the treatment of prisoners and detained persons in correctional facilities in Kenya on 22nd October, 2015; The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Hon. Senators, before we proceed to the next order, I wish to recognize the presence of visiting students and teachers from Kilungi ABC Primary School from Makueni County. They are seated at the Public Gallery. In our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to Parliament, I send a warm welcome to them. On behalf of the Senate, and on my own behalf, I wish them a fruitful visit. I thank you.
Allow me, Mr. Speaker, Sir, to join you and other colleagues in welcoming the delegation from Kilungi ABC Primary School. In fact, this school is next to my home. Therefore, it is my pleasure to welcome them here in the Senate. I have said this before and I want to repeat, that in the era of devolution, these student should not drive 107 kilometres to see the Senate. We must have a Senate sitting in all the 47 counties so that these pupils can have the privilege of attending a Senate session in Makueni. That will be the day devolution will be working so that they can see leadership at that level. Welcome, Kilungi ABC Primary School, to the Senate and I wish you a fruitful visit.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also wish to congratulate the students from Kilungi ABC Primary School. Welcome to Nairobi and feel at home. This is where we work and debate our issues. Kilungi ABC Primary School is one of the indigenous African churches sponsored schools in Kenya. They have also constructed universities. This is a great achievement. I urge these young people to work hard because education is the key to many things in life. With education, they can become Ministers, Prime Ministers, Presidents, Senators or anything they dream of in life. Welcome and feel at home.
Asante sana, Bw. Spika. Yangu ni kuwakaribisha hao wanafunzi katika Seneti na kuwaombea heri njema katika masomo yao. Kwanza nikisema ya kwamba wanafunzi ni baraka kwa Mungu kwa sababu wakiwa katika hiki kiwango cha miaka ya chini wanaweza kuendelea na hata wajikute wenyewe wameingia Bunge hili la The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Is there any Senator seeking a Statement?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on 28th July I sought a Statement which is appearing on the Order Paper.
Order, Senator! Next time, I will give sanctions to Senators who are not listening. Statement 3(a); by the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations. I cannot see the Member who requested it, Sen. Madzayo. ASSAULT OF A MATATU DRIVER BY A POLICE OFFICER ALONG MALINDI-KILIFI ROAD
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have the Statement. However, the Member requested me to hold it until the next sitting.
Statement 3(b); by the chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations, again. DISAPPEARANCE AND BRUTAL MURDER OF CHILDREN IN CHESUE VILLAGE, NANDI COUNTY
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I still do not have this Statement. In the last sitting we had handed over the matter to the Leader of the Majority. I still do not have the answer. I have struggled to get the answer up to now and I do not have it.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, clearly everybody can now agree that surely the Ministry of Interior and National Coordination is not taking its job seriously. I share in the frustration of the Vice Chairperson. If one is a Chairperson or a Vice-Chairperson of a committee and has a Ministry that is not responsive, there is little one can do. However, there are still avenues provided for by the Constitution. I expect the Vice Chairperson to be telling this House that they have invoked Article 125 of the Constitution or they are bringing a Motion to censure the Minister. If the Committee has not undertaken those other available options, it means that the Committee is also not taking its job seriously. Therefore, they should tell us what other steps they have taken to get the response.
Chairperson, you just told us you do not have the Statement but you never said why.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as a Committee and the vice chairperson, I have really tried to get the answer. I have tried tracing both the leadership of this particular department. When I failed, I handed over the matter to the Leader of the Majority who is not in the House today. Again, this morning, we requested the Inspector General of The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is a concern particularly in both the Standing Committees on National Security and Foreign Relations and the Committee on Health. Maybe the Committee on Health will absolve itself of blame in the next Statement. However, when children disappear from Nandi, it is a serious issue. If this Senate cannot get a Statement in seven days and the Leader of the Majority is given a task and does not respond to it, it puts to question the work of the Ministry, the Leadership of the Senate and how we treat Statements by Senators. It cannot be casual that Sen. Sang sought that Statement. There is a family somewhere in Nandi which has entrusted Sen. Sang, the Vice Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights with that obligation. If Sen. Sang cannot get the answer, the Leader of the Majority, Sen. (Prof.) Kithure Kindiki cannot get the answer and Sen. Dullo, former commissioner of the Kenya Human Rights Commission cannot get the answer, then we have a crisis in this Senate. Therefore, as we go on recess, or maybe we should even defer our recess to determine our work and whether or not the committees particularly the one on National Security and Foreign Relations ought to employ extra legal measures in order to have a sitting somewhere, like what congressmen did, so that people can understand that some of these things are very serious.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, though I appreciate the frustrations of the Vice Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations, I attended the Kamukunji in this House earlier today and we were very categorical that some of these things need to be taken more seriously. We demanded that the IG appears in person or sends his deputy because he had not done that. However, I refer the Committee to Article 125 of the Constitution:- “(1)Either House of Parliament, and any of its committees, has power to summon any person to appear before it for the purpose of giving evidence or providing information. (2) For the purposes of clause (1), a House of Parliament and any of its committees has the same powers as the High Court.” We must not push this buck to the Majority Leader in this House. I have seen the powers of summon work. Even now in the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee, we are now meeting the very stubborn governor of Kakamega through summons. The powers of the committees are much guaranteed in the Constitution. I encourage the Committee not to pass the buck because this issue is quite critical and it is not the only one. The issue of families sleeping, not knowing whether their children are alive or not is not an issue we can push and joke around with. I ask the Committee to exercise their powers as provided for in Article 125 of the Constitution. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Members, let us be brief.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is Sen. Wangari, in order to call the Kakamega Governor a stubborn governor?
Order, Sen. Omondi! Would she be in order to call him the most celebrated governor? That is a point of argument.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Can Sen. Wangari substantiate why she is calling the Governor of Kakamega, Mr. Wycliffe Ambetsa Oparanya stubborn?
That is better put.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I know Sen. Omondi and yourself know me very well. I would not make such allegations without grounds to substantiate. As a Member of the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee, we sent over three requests for him to appear before us, he defied. Then we sent summons over and again which he defied. Therefore, yes, by all measure, he is very stubborn.
Order, Sen. Omondi! Are you now satisfied?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, although she has substantiated, for me, I am not satisfied. My governor is not a stubborn governor.
Order, Sen. Omondi! You cannot be changing goal posts. You made a request for substantiation, you are satisfied it has been substantiated. In fact, from where I sit, she even used a milder word than what she should have used. Therefore, let us leave it there. Well, back to the issue of Sen. Sang, maybe Sen. Sang will have the last bite of the cherry and then we dispose the matter because there is really no matter before us. There is no debate!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if somebody is working from the comfort of his office, from the comfort of three or four bodyguards and police officers, from the comfort of a siren and a fleet of vehicles around him, they may not seem to understand the challenges that certain families go through.
I mentioned, in that Statement, that two of the children were found murdered. Part of the question was a request to the Government to compensate and even support the families with the burial. One of the families, a very humble family, could not have a decent burial for their child. They could not afford a coffin. We had to do a harambee to support them. If one looks at what families are going through and there is a public officer sitting in the office of a Cabinet Secretary, comfortable for two or three weeks and not taking time to appreciate the pain the families are going through, it is very challenging. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Asante,Bw. Spika. Nilikuweko ndani ya Jumba hili ulipotoa amri kwamba swali hili lijibiwe leo. Amri yenyewe ilitoka kwako; Spika wa Bunge hili!
Sasa, Bw. Spika leo imefika na jibu hakuna. Ina maana aliyedharauliwa ni Spika ama ni Bunge? Kwa fikira yangu, kuna nyoka anayeuma halafu kuna nyoka wa plastiki. Agutusha tu lakini haumi. Sijui kama hawa wenzetu wanatufanya sisi, Bunge la Seneti, kuwa nyoka wa plastiki ambaye haumi. Naungana na Sen. Sang kwamba itabidi nyoka aume sasa; asiwe nyoka wa plastiki.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is sad, indeed, when we have to have loud complaints on nearly all committees. Yesterday, it was the Committee on Health that was under reprimand and today it is the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations. The real issue is a constitutional issue. The system where the chairpersons have the mandate of answering on behalf of Ministries has failed and we should accept that. This is something that we saw from before, that there were lapses of the Constitution. Maybe, it is high time everybody, both in the Opposition and the Jubilee side, thought of Okoa Kenya and that is the way to go. We should change the Constitution into a parliamentary system. That is when we will have this things working.
Bw. Spika, naunga mkono wenzangu na hasa Seneta wa Nandi. Ninasikitika kwamba tutaenda kwenye likizo na kuacha jambo hili ambalo ni la huzuni bila kulisuluhisha. Si jambo la kuchukuliwa hivi hivi watoto wanapopotea na wengine kufariki katika Kaunti ya Nandi. Ni jambo ambalo tunatikiwa kuliangalia kwa makini. Ni jambo la kushangaza kwa sababu Wizara ya Masuala ya Nchi na Mipangilio ya Serikali inatakiwa kushughulika jambo hili na kuangazia jinsi mambo yanaendelea. Ni kinaya ikizingatiwa kwamba Waziri anayehusika na mambo ya usalama na pia Inspekta Jenerali Mkuu wako pamoja Kule Naivasha katika mafungo wakati kuna watoto ambao baadhi wamefariki na wengine kupotea. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Members, I am going to give the following directive, not because Sen. Boy Juma Boy has tried to intimidate the Chair, but because this House has powers under the Constitution of the Republic of Kenya. I want to start by telling Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. that the issue is not the Senate. By the time the Member for Nandi County brings this matter, it means that the civil service has already failed because that matter should have been sorted out at the local level. For the same civil service to continue disregarding the representatives of the people, it is a continuation of their failure. So, we must take these things as they are and the Committee of this House has powers. The Constitution contemplated that possibility and has given you powers. So, I direct the Committee, within seven days, to summon the Cabinet Secretary (CS), the Principal Secretary (PS) and the Inspector-General (IG) in the seventh day before the Committee. Failure to do so, the recourse is there for us. That should be sufficient enough for them to deliver the statement. Let us go to Statement (c). IMPLEMENTATION OF GOVERNMENT POLICY ON FREE MATERNITY SERVICES
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to give the Statement requested by the Senator. I am a Member of the Committee on Health and I am issuing this Statement on behalf of my Chair who is not in the House. This Statement was directed to the Senate Standing Committee on Health and it was requested by Sen. Sijeny. I will go straight to the answer which has been provided. The first question required the Chairperson to explain whether the Jubilee Government policy on free maternity is being implemented and how effective it is. The free maternity policy of the Jubilee Government is being implemented and it is very effective. On 1st June, 2013, the Government announcement the abolishment of fees payable by mothers seeking maternity services in public health facilities countrywide. To compensate the health facilities for the lost revenue, the Government provided a budgetary allocation of Kshs3.8 billion in 2013/2014 Financial Year, increasing to Kshs4 billion and Kshs4.298 billion in 2014/2015 and 2015/2016 Financial Years, respectively. The first year of implementation was marked by a sharp increase in deliveries conducted in public facilities from 461,995 deliveries in 2012/2013 to 627,487 deliveries in 2013/2014, an increase of 35 per cent. Subsequently, the number of deliveries in public The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Thank you, Senator. Sen. Sijeny, are you satisfied?
No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. If both the Cabinet Secretary and the Chair are saying that the free maternity policy of Jubilee Government is effective yet it is clear and they have not denied that women as many as five who have just delivered are sharing beds and infants are dying, it cannot be effective. Even from their statistics, they have not indicated the rate of mortality of women and children who have died and how many lives they have saved for them to show us the effectiveness. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Chairperson said that health has been devolved to the counties. The Senate has the oversight role and the Chair has not informed us the intervention he has sought to ensure that the question we are asking to protect the mothers and the children who give birth in the counties---. What measures have been taken because the statement has been there for over two months? The Cabinet Secretary for Health should have done research or intervened in the best way possible. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir---
Senator, you are seeking a clarification and not making a new Statement.
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. They should clarify the measures being taken to protect the women and new born babies because they said the new maternity wing will be ready within four months. What are the women going to do? With all this kind of money that Kisumu has received, they should tell usthe measures, even if temporary, they are taking to protect lives. He is not going to tell us that because the doors are open, you will flood in everybody and let them die. Could they tell us what precautions are being taken? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. Sang, are you on a point of order on this issue?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to take this opportunity to thank the Chairperson for that statement. However, I want to seek the following clarification; first, how much is paid for every delivery? Secondly; what is the Government doing to ensure that the facilities – you cannot talk about supporting free maternity and the facilities are not up to date. In my county, I want to ask the chairperson to indicate the steps the Government is doing to ensure that they improve maternity services within the counties and what steps they are doing to ensure that there is co-operation between the Ministry of Health and the county governments in ensuring that there is upgrade of facilities in our counties in order to ensure that we have safe deliveries.
If you want to intervene on this, press the intervention button and not the debate button so that I can distinguish.
Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am one of the culprits and I will rectify that. My interest in this question stands from the fact that the free maternity care was meant to improve maternal mortality in this country. In my county, one of the critical things---
The correct word is to reduce maternal mortality and not to improve.
To improve means to reduce.
No, to improve is to enhance.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, to reduce maternal mortality and thereby improve the number of women who survive after birth. In my county, one of the key things is prevention of mother to child transmission of HIV/AIDS. When more women deliver in hospitals, it is possible to prevent that transmission. The latest data released by the Kenya National Aids Control Council indicates that more than 2,000 children in Homa Bay County have acquired HIV/Aids through mother to child transmission. This tells you that something somewhere is not working in this Free Maternity Programme. When these mothers deliver in hospital, we are sure we are going to get the right care to prevent that transmission from mother to child. My question to the Committee is this: What measures does the Government intend to take to ensure that these funds are utilized? It is one thing to provide the funds and another to compel people to go to hospital. Sometimes, it is not an issue of compelling; it is an issue of lack of facilities. If you look at the average distance to hospital for some of the areas where we come from especially in Homa Bay County, it is five kilometers. An expectant mother will have to walk for five kilometers to go to a hospital. Sometimes, they prefer to deliver at home. When you provide funds, then you should also provide other motivations and mechanisms to ensure that these funds are utilized to generate the right results. Secondly, I want to find out what the current maternal mortality rate is because it is important for us to look at some numbers that when this programme started, it was at point x and now it is at point y. I am interested in looking at the statistics for Homa Bay and Kwale counties. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. May I state that there are questions that were not in the original statement sought. However, I will undertake to find their answers.
For instance the one on transmission but you are a doctor and you do not need to find an answer elsewhere.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, these are administrative figures. I am a clinician and these are not figures that I would have on my hands. These are figures that are changing every time. I am sure there are figures that have developed over time. The issue of the mortality rates was not asked. However, we can find the most current figures from the officers. The question on how much it cost per delivery was not asked but I am sure it is a relevant and useful question. The Cabinet Secretary has admitted that mothers in Kisumu are sharing beds. This may be the case in many other county hospitals. It has been undertaken by the Cabinet Secretary that the money allocated to the counties for free maternity healthcare will assist in expanding existing facilities. We know maternity units in most counties require some improvements and since funds are available, it is for the county governments to improve. The process is ongoing and it is exemplified by what is going on in Kisumu County where the facility will be ready in the next four months. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as regards the mother-child transmission, this is another issue that requires some statistics. This answer does not provide the statistics but there are statistics that we can obtain which are useful. We know that with the increase in the number of deliveries-particularly in an endemic area where the prevalence rate of HIV- AIDS is high like in Homa Bay County- the mother to child transmission is certainly high. This is a figure that we would like to have so that we can know whether the free maternity health care which has raised the delivery rate is the cause of mother to child transmission. I have taken note of the supplementary questions and I endeavour to get their answers sooner than was before. Thank you.
Can I have your undertaking? Actually, you have not answered any of the issues that were raised by the two Senators. What you have said is that they require further requests and more detailed answers. In virtue of all of them, you have said their statistics require more answers. Can I know when you want to answer them?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have had a rough run with the Ministry of Health in the last---
Why is it that it is only your Committee that seems to have such a serious run with the Ministry?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have had this problem but I think, given what we have experienced this afternoon, it is not only this Committee. The two Houses have challenges with the same issue. Sen. (Dr.) Machage suggested that we rescue ourselves by supporting the Okoa Kenya campaign. So, this issue is running across all the committees and lately, it has been the Committee on Health. This has made The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. Sijeny, are you okay with that?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
So, endeavour to get an answer for us. We may be on recess but we still need the answer in good time.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I join the Chair to thank and welcome the pupils from Nandi Hills Primary School. This is a wonderful school with very young children who are focused. This school neighbours the school where the five children who have been the subject of debate in the House this afternoon come from. May I tell them that this House had an occasion to discuss their welfare. The Senators had an opportunity to express themselves on the disappearances of their colleagues from Chesuwe Village, Nandi Hills sub-county and that the Senate stands with them. However, I encourage them to work hard in school. I and Sen. Cheruiyot were recently from school. Therefore, this is an encouragement to them. In about 10 or 15 years, these students will be where we are now. By then, we will have other children maybe our children will be seating at the Public Gallery as they watch the deliberations. I encourage them to work hard in school but desist from the temptation to engage in the destruction of schools which we have witnessed some of their colleagues engaging in. Kindly focus on your studies, work hard because the future is bright and that the sky is the limit.
Thank you Sen. Sang. Sen. Karaba had sought the Floor.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was overtaken by events. All the I welcome the pupils and teachers from Nandi Hills Primary School--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order Sen. Karaba! Order!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I can take that opportunity.
Like you correctly said, you were overtaken by events.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wanted to contribute about the free maternity health care but now that we have students from Nandi Hills Primary School, as the Chairman of the Committee on Education in the Senate---
Sen. Karaba, as the Chairperson of the Education Committee, I will allow you one minute.
Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am encouraging the young boys and girls from Nandi County to frequently visit this House because it is a motivation. The last time I visited this building was in 1959 when I was in Class Two and I kept on hoping that I will come to this House to represent my people.
Sen. Karaba, Sen. Sang and Sen. Cheruiyot will now think they are in the wrong place if you talk about 1959 when you were in Class Two.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, they should listen. So, I welcome them because I was once a student and visited the other House. I was motivated to be in this House until when I was elected a Member in 2002. So, you can still build that hope until when you come to Parliament. These are the people who we need in about 30 years to come. I welcome you and feel free. FINANCING OF JARAMOGI OGINGA ODINGA TEACHING AND REFERRAL HOSPITAL IN KISUMU COUNTY
Thank you, Sen. Karaba. We are now back to Statements. Since the Chair and Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’ Nyong’o are not in the House, the Statement is deferred.
Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, on a point of order. I recall that the Chair had ruled on the Statement No. (d). The order was that whatever the case, the response ought to have been brought today. I also recall that the Senate Minority Leader informed the House that the Senator who sought the Statement was out of the country but the Speaker ruled that the answer should be brought all the same.
The trouble is that I cannot see the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget. However, Sen. Mositet is present. Sen. Mositet, are you ready with an answer?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as a Committee, we were ready--- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Is this answer urgent? The Senator who sought the Statement is out of the country. I think it will make sense if the Senator who sought the Statement is present. Unless it is a question like the one we were dealing ---
Sen. Murkomen, the Standing Orders are clear. You should not stand in direct line of the Speaker and the persons on their feet, making it impossible for the Chair to follow the proceedings. Sen. Mositet, I propose that unless Sen. Kajwang has felt very strongly about it and the Statement is so urgent, I would rather we wait for Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o to be in the House if the response is ready. This is because it is a specific question on a specific institution for which I am sure he has a specific interest.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, okay.
Sen. Kajwang what is your objection to that?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I absolutely have no objection. I was just following up on the earlier ruling.
That would be my ruling. So, Sen. Mositet, please let us put it at that for now. Next Statement. Where is the Chairperson of the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries? Sen. Nabwala, that was your Statement. INCREASE IN THE PRICE OF MAIZE FLOUR
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am also raising a concern. I sought this Statement on 28th June 2016. I think one month is sufficient for us to get a response. It was touching on the National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB), where the storage of maize had gone ---
My issue is not so much on that but that the Chairperson is not here. Is there anybody here from the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries? Sen. Kajwang, are you a Member of that Committee?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes.
Do you have the response?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, unfortunately the response is not ready. We could undertake to present it on the first week when we resume from recess.
Sen. Nabwala, is that going to cause any prejudice?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think it is acceptable since the Chairperson of the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries has been busy.
Let us move to Statement (f). This is for the Committee on Roads and Transportation. Sen. Sijeny, what do you have to say? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo is not here ---
Is the response ready?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is not ready, though ---
Then, do not give Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo as the reason.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, he is more the reason because we have sought from him to be specific which particular road he is referring to. The Cabinet Secretary (CS) has also tried to reach him on phone but he has not communicated. So, unless he gives us full and better particulars, the response cannot be ready. Once he does so, it will be ready within two weeks.
Okay. In any case, like you said, he is not here. Could we have the next Statement – Committee on Implementation? Sen. Wangari, that is your Statement. IMPLEMENTATION OF SENATE RESOLUTION ON STATE OF AFFAIRS IN KENYA AIRWAYS LIMITED
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I had requested for this Statement two weeks ago from the Committee on Implementation. We had hoped that the Chairperson would be in the House. It was directed by the Chair yesterday that it be produced today because it is an urgent matter. Kenya Airways just posted billions in losses. So, it is an issue of national importance. I would like to hear from the Committee so that we get good guidance as a House on how this issue is being handled. He was also supposed to respond to the declarations that were done in the Senate and how far this has gone in terms of implementation.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am just asking for direction. Is it really the Committee on Implementation? This question has appeared before the Committee. The Cabinet Secretary (CS) and all the delegations have appeared before the Committee and we have issued statements here. I am wondering whether the Senator was not satisfied or which is which.
I do not understand. Sen. Sijeny, what have you raised?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am looking at the Statement and I am seeing it is the same issues as those that have been addressed or referred to the Committee on Roads and Transportation where the docket of Kenya Airways falls. We have summoned the Cabinet Secretary (CS) and even the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of Kenya Airways asking the same question on how far the implementation of the resolutions has gone and even the recommendations of the ad-hoc Committee which was The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, just to clarify, my request was to the Committee on Implementation regarding the enquiry by the ad hoc Committee. Its Report was tabled on 1st December, 2015 and adopted on 3rd December, 2015. My issue was; how far is the implementation of these resolutions? This had been taken to the Committee on Implementation. In fact, yesterday, Sen. Kanainza undertook to bring it to the House.
I can see she has sought the Floor.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have the response concerning the issues raised by Sen. Wangari. The Ministry reviewed the recommendations of the Report by the Select Committee that was adopted by the Senate in December, 2015. The following actions have been taken ---
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Would it be in order that the Senator first shares the response with me so that I can follow as is the practice of this House? I have not seen the response.
When did you get that response?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I received the response yesterday.
why have you not shared it with Sen. Wangari?
I am sorry that I was unable to do it on time. May I proceed?
Okay. At least you have a response. We will wait for it. Sen. Wangari, do you want time to look at the Statement?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would appreciate a few minutes and then with your discretion, we can have it back.
Take a few minutes. Let us move to Statement (h). This one is for the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget. OPERATIONS OF THE WOMEN ENTERPRISE FUND
Sen. Cheruiyot, are you following the proceedings?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes, I am.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Statement is not ready. We have not received the response yet but we are following up.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would appreciate if the Chairperson told us how long this wait will be.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, given that there is a Motion of adjournment of the Senate, I undertake that on the first week of resumption, we will have the response ready.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand on an issue which you have just ruled on; Sen. Wangari’s concern about Kenya Airways. That is more about the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. Karaba, for the sake of good order, can you let me finish with the issue of Sen. Cheruiyot?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thought that was already done.
Sen. Cheruiyot, are you satisfied?
Sen. Cheruiyot said that it is okay, I was following---
Order, Sen. Karaba. Do not pretend to do what you are not supposed to do. Do not try that because it will not work with me. Sen. Cheruyiot, is it okay with you that it will be the first week when we come back?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
We have not even come to Sen. Wangari’s issue because she is still taking time to look at her Statement. Have you received it? Sen. Kanainza, where is the Statement that you were to give to Sen. Wangari? As a matter of fact, I do not even have a copy. Sen. Karaba, let us wait for the photocopy. I want you to raise your issue at the right time because it is important. Statement (i) from the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations. SHOOTING OF ULANDA GIRLS’ SECONDARY SCHOOL STUDENT
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not have this Statement. Since you have made a ruling, we will include this as part of the agenda once we summon the Cabinet Secretary and the Permanent Secretary in the next one week.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Sen. Kanainza, should go on because it is a short response and I have gone through it.
I am talking about Statement (i), which has to do with you.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am sorry. I was going through the Statement from Sen. Kanainza. The question I had raised in the Committee---
Sen. Wangari, Sen. Dullo has said that the answer is not ready and it has to await the summoning of the Cabinet Secretary. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I sympathize with the Chair because I was in the Kamukunji . I oblige that we do it in the next one week as has been directed by the Speaker. I will raise the issue there.
Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, do you have a point of order?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity---
I have not given you an opportunity. I am wondering what your point of order is?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you called out my name.
I called it out because it is on the screen. Is it a point of order on what Sen. Wangari has said?
No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Do you want to seek a Statement?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Please wait. Let us go back to Sen. Wangari’s Statement. Sen. Kanainza, you can now proceed. STATUS OF IMPLEMENTATION OF THE SENATE RESOLUTION ON THE STATE OF AFFAIRS AT THE KENYA AIRWAYS LIMITED
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. There is a way forward that had been prepared by the Committee that led to the recommendations which were adopted. (1) The board has been reconstituted with a new chairman and the departure of the finance director in order to strengthen its policy direction and oversight roles. (2) In order to turn around Kenya Airways (KQ) the board has undertaken the following measures:- (a) Strategic turnaround concept: it has developed a five-year plan with challenge and build from McKinsey. (b) Operational turnaround concept: retained the recovery and transformation services to assist in detailed concept that was ready by end of March. The document is being fine-tuned. (c) Financial/stock balance sheet restructuring; debt advisor PJT mandated to advise on the financial restructuring concept and long-term capital plan to be developed by the end of April, which will be based on the operational turnaround plan. (2) The company has embarked on fleet resizing to homogenous new and competitive structure. They have two 787-8s sub-leased and contract signed; three 777- 300s sub-leased and in the final stage of contracting and four 777-200s are out for sale with two sold and out of the fleet in February. I believe that we have been following it up The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank Sen. Kanainza for that response. However, she seems not aware of what McKinsey is. May I seek the following clarifications:- 1. We continue to see hemorrhage losses of billions from Kenya Airways (KQ). I would like to know the measures being taken in short-term, apart from these 18 to 24 months, to mitigate the losses. When do we expect to see results? 2. It is the action of the people that has brought KQ on its knees. What legal measures have been taken by the organisation in taming this and serving as a lesson to others who mismanage public bodies? 3. How many people were targeted to lose their jobs? 4. What are the Cabinet resolutions regarding this issue as has been put here?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was a Member of the Committee that looked into this issue. It was Chaired by Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o. The question by Sen. Wangari was clear. The answer given by the Vice-Chair is doubtful. That is not the answer we expected. Sen. Wangari sought to know the status of the implementation of the Senate resolution but the Sen. Kanainza, in her answer said that the KQ changed the chair of the board and also replaced the finance director. She also read other resolutions. I know that the Committee took its time and did a thorough job. There were good resolutions but I do not remember at one point where we talked of a land to be sold. We did not resolve that only two people were to leave. One Dennis Owori mentioned, came in when the proceedings of the Committee were on. The person who left, after the resolutions, was the commercial director. Therefore, the Chair should answer what Sen. Wangari sought.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if KQ was my private business, I would have fired the CEO by now. Unfortunately, it is not. As a follow up to the recommendations of the Select Committee that this House established, there are a lot of initiatives that KQ has taken up. They have brought in McKinsey and Company Limited to look at the strategic plan. They also brought in Paul J Taubman (PJT) firm to do the balance sheet restructuring. There are also many other initiatives. The fate of the KQ is as a result of the decisions made by the board and the management. The KQ’s board has representation from the Government of Kenya. They are the National Treasury, Ministry of Transport a nd Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, among other representatives. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is an emerging trend where the directors that represent the Government of Kenya in specific boards, for instance KQ and Mumias Sugar Co. Limited, sleep on the job and Kenyans wake up to the fact that the Government partly-owned companies are in the red yet we have representatives on these boards. What actions have been taken on the directors who are sitting in the KQ board? It is not enough to change the Chair from one to another. If these people sleep on the job, there are sanctions that should be taken. Furthermore, what is the Government’s position on its representation on strategic boards? There is this issue of alternate directors. Are these officers given proper powers so that they look out for the interest of the common Mwananchi ? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. Karaba, on the issue that you raised, do you want to intervene now or later?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I can intervene now because I was also a Member of the Select Committee. My concern is the implementation level. The Report containing the recommendations was Tabled in the House. Who is supposed to follow up on the implementation? If it is the Senate let it be it. If the recommendation was that the CEO must be relieved of his duties, then the House must get the report as to whether it was done. When we talk of the recommendations, the Committee on Implementation fails to report what occurred after the Tabling and adoption of the Report.
Sen. Kanainza, this Statement that you are issuing shows that it is a Statement being issued following a Statement as requested by Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o. Are we dealing with the same issue that Sen. Wangari is seeking or this is another?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is the same concern. Sen. Wangari wanted to know about the level of implementation.
Was there another Statement sought by Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is the same Statement. The Cabinet Secretary was due to appear in the Committee of Roads and Transport yesterday. However, he did not appear before the Committee but we had other officers. I attended the Committee to seek some clarifications on the same matter.
So what we are being told is that pursuant to the Report of the Select Committee which was Chaired by Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o, this piece paper is now what is telling us how that resolution has been implemented. Is that right?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a serious matter. The nature of the response that we have received from the question raised, alludes to what the Senator for Kwale County had mentioned. He talked of people considering the House as a plastic snake that only scares but does not bite. This Committee took a lot of time. I had an opportunity to study the report and its recommendations. It is unfortunate that we are being taken round in circles when we seek information on the status of implementation. It shows that the scandal bedeviling Kenya Airways is bigger than Goldenberg and Anglo leasing. Kenya Airways is a fairly liquid business. I speak with some level of authority The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Please seek clarification.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, sometimes one gets emotional.
As a representative of the people you should never get emotional. You must deal with issues.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, “empathize” is the right word. I empathize with Kenyans whose money is being squandered in this institution. We should get a proper response to this statement.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the last financial year, Kenya Airways made a loss of Kshs25 billion. When they attended a Committee sitting, they told us about their recovery strategy. It is now one year down the line. It is significant to note that this year they made a bigger loss of Kshs26.5 billion. I wish it could be clarified to us whether this company has ways of monitoring and evaluation whether their strategy is useful in view of the fact that it is making losses. Will the strategy recover and make this company come to fruition again?
Sen. Kanainza and Sen. Wangari, I have an issue with this statement. It appears to me that Sen. Wangari sought to know whether the Senate said what they had to say in the report. Did it not? We have the report. The Senate pronounced itself. The only question that appears to be out there is not the several issues that have been raised here now; it is whether or not that report is being implemented. That is the question. We are discussing issues that we know. They were there in the Committee. They were canvased. We know about Kshs25 billion losses. Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong’o and his Committee did an intensive job on this matter. The question is not whether or not the losses are still being made but whether or not the recommendations that were made by the Senate Committee are being implemented. That is why Sen. Wangari, very cleverly went to the Committee on Implementation, not to the Committee on Roads and Transportation. She wants to know whether it is being implemented. That is the issue. It is not whether or not they are the single issues we are discussing now of this or the other person or of the chairman or the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Before you intervened, that is what was going through my mind, having been in that Committee. The exact question should be; there were certain clear, specific recommendations that were worked on by the Committee and deliberated in this House. The answers that were given are also general; touching on everything. That is why Senators are just responding to this thing. Unless Sen. Kanainza can – looking from what has been given, they should go directly to the recommendations and they tell us at what stage they are on each one of them in terms of implementation. Then later we can see whether having implemented those recommendations, we can see any impact or turnaround on Kenya Airways.
My view is exactly what Sen. Lesuuda has said. The question is; has the implementation Committee read this report, internalized and understood it? Or are we getting a statement based on what the Cabinet Secretary has said without the implementation Committee understanding itself. I say this with great respect. What were the recommendations? Are you satisfied that the Motion is being implemented? That is the question Sen. Wangari is asking. Not about truncated issues.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as the Committee on implementation, we have gone through the report. As we wrote to the Cabinet Secretary in charge we indicated all the recommendations that were made by the ad hoc Committee of the Senate. However, this is a response we got. Yesterday we had our Committee meeting. We agreed that the Clerk writes a letter to the Cabinet Secretary so that he can appear before our Committee and respond to those issues directly. I also agree with hon. Senators that the recommendations that have been pointed out in this statement are general. I have noted down other questions that have been asked by hon. Senators. I will share them with the Clerk so that they can include it in the letter. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we asked for specific recommendations from the Cabinet Secretary. This is the response we got from him.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also happen to have been the Vice Chairperson of that Committee. In terms of the recommendations for implementation that were made, a key one which was fairly urgent was the discussion regarding the code share between Kenya Airways and KLM; specifically because it was the determination of the Committee that part of the reason why Kenya Airways is making losses is because of the agreement between KLM and Kenya Airways. There were issues. The code share had issues. Therefore, as the Vice Chairperson goes to check the implementation levels, there is some urgency in the matter. We need to know whether it is under discussion. We even interviewed the KLM people. Part of the resolutions we made following the discussion with KoninklijkeLuchtvaart Maatschappij (KLM) was a reconciliation of finances between the two shareholders. I do not believe that Kenya Airways is sure how much it is owed by KLM and how much KLM owes Kenya Airways. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
I have three more requests from the floor. Sen. Mositet you have already spoken to this. Let us have Sen. Gwendo and let us be specific.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Information given by the people who are in this Committee shows clearly that the Committee on Implementation did not take enough time to go through the report even from the way Sen. Kanainza was reading. She could not read the Mckinsey and Company Limited which gave the ---
Order. This is not a semantics classroom.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, maybe in future, other Committee Chairpersons should learn from this. Before bringing the reports to this Senate or before answering questions we need to go through the report, do consultative meetings so that---
Order Senator. Stop doing my work. Let us have Sen. Sang.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it would help this House if we got fairly straight answers. The question as you have rightly pointed out is; how far are the recommendations of the Select Committee on the Kenya Airways, as adopted by the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Let us have Sen. Kanainza. You have listened to your colleagues and heard the general drift. Have you not? What you are giving us is not a report on the implementation of the resolutions of the Senate on Kenya Airways. You are giving us certain answers only, some of which may have to do with the Senate recommendations. I would expect to let the Committee look at the resolutions of the Committee and tell us that the report has been implemented and give us the reasons if it has not been implemented. Sen.Wangari took an interesting line. She could have asked the same question from the Ministry but she did not. She wants the Committee to take responsibility of implementing the resolutions of the House and so I expect that we are going to get it sequentially to know exactly what or how far that report has been implemented and the reasons, if it has not. What is your point of order Sen. Sijeny?
Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, this report was tabled in the Committee on Roads and Infrastructure where I am the Vice-chairperson. We debated it and summoned the Cabinet Secretary (CS) and the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of Kenya Airways and they responded to this. I understand what you have ruled on it, and there probably may be new issues which may have arisen. However, with your kind permission and to avoid duplication, I seek directions and clarifications if it will be in order that the Implementation Committee sits. There could be a joint committee although I do not know what the Standing Orders are---
Has your Committee reported to the Senate?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, a report was done. I am just talking about the interim stage since they are going back to the drawing board. Could there be a joint sitting between the Roads and Infrastructure Committee and the Committee on Implementation so that we look at all these issues?
As far as your Committee is concerned, have the resolutions of the Senate been implemented?
No! Have they been implemented? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. They were being implemented but I cannot remember right away.
That is correct. You and I cannot remember yet there is an issue before the Senate.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, they were being implemented.
You are going to do what I have directed. The Committee on Implementation may decide to sit with your Committee and give us an answer. This is a very important issue which we cannot afford to push under the carpet. Sen. Karaba, just hold your horses. I remember your issue. That should be it for now, Sen. Wangari.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I applaud your ruling and the direction it has taken. However, I rise because I did this to the Committee on Implementation on two issues. As a follow-up, I needed a Statement on the disappearance of twins at the Pumwani Maternity Hospital. My request to you---
Are you still on the issue of Sen. Kanainza?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is to the same Committee and that is why I am seeking your guidance because I had asked sought two issues from the Committee on Pumwani and on Kenya airways. The Kenya airways can be taken by the Committee as they do a thorough work---
Sen. Wangari, you are now confusing me. I am dealing with Statement (g) which has nothing to do with Pumwani, but it has to do everything Kenya Airways. You are confusing me now. Bring the issue about Pumwani when we get to Statement on Pumwani.
Hon. Senators, I wish to recognize the presence of visiting students and teachers from Hills View Primary School, Meru County. They are seated at the Public Gallery. In our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to Parliament, I extend a warm welcome to them. On behalf of the Senate and on my own behalf, I wish them a fruitful visit. Hon. Senators, I know that Kapsoor Primary School from Baringo County was in the Public Gallery, but they left before I had recognized their presence. I would like it to go in the HANSARD that Kapsoor Primary School from Baringo County was also here. The record should show that they too were welcomed and that we would have also wished them a happy learning experience. How soon do we expect an answer from you, Sen. Kanainza? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, we will do a thorough work and we will have the response in two weeks time.
What was the issue that you were raising, Sen. Karaba?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my issue is on the kind of ruling that I was anticipating from you. The moment we table a report from a Senate Committee or from a Committee which has been instructed by the Speaker to undertake a certain task, especially after a petition, it should be followed by the Implementation Committee. They should be able to tell us after sometime, whether the recommendations that were in the report have been forwarded and have been implemented. That is the work of the Implementation Committee. Otherwise, if you do not do so, it is like you are dumping reports here. We will not know what is happening and nothing will happen even after that. Later on, those reports will be overtaken by other Bills that will come and you will say that they have been overtaken by events. A ruling of that nature is welcome.
I agree with you, Sen. Karaba, but it does no harm if the Senator concerned raises an issue the way Sen. Wangari has done. She wants to know what the Implementation Committee has done. Otherwise, some reports would just gather dust and will not see the light of day. If you have a specific issue, my advice to you would be to raise it on the Floor of the House. We will follow it up the way we have followed up Sen. Wangari’s situation. That brings us to the end of the Statement. I know that Sen. (Prof.) Lesan wants to seek a Statement. Go on, Sen. (Prof.) Lesan. FATE OF FARMERS’ DEPOSITS IN COLLAPSED IMPERIAL AND CHASE BANKS
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to seek this Statement out of time. Pursuant to Standing Order No. 45 (2)(b), I rise to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries regarding the fate of farmers who lost tea sales money in the collapse of Imperial and Chase Bank . In the Statement, the Chairperson should address the following matters:- 1) Is the Chairperson aware that tea farmers affiliated to the Kenya Tea Development Agency Limited (KTDA) cannot access Kshs4.8 Billion deposited in Imperial and Chase Bank now under receivership. 2) Could the Central Bank of Kenya intervene to ensure that KTDA is allowed to access the entire deposits in both banks on behalf of the affiliate factories to facilitate payment of this year’s bonus to tea farmers? 3) Could the National Government prevail upon KTDA to pay farmers in excess of 75 per cent of what is due to the farmers monthly for the deliveries made in order to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Where is the Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries Committee Chairman. If he is not here, could we hear from any Committee Member?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am a Member of the Committee. I will communicate with the Chairman. However, from what the Member has requested, it is like the farmers bank through KTDA, meaning that they could have even banked with Co-operative Bank. I do not know why they went to those private banks. Maybe the best question he should have asked is how---
Order, Sen. Mositet! The Senator has sought a Statement and it has been approved by the Speaker of the Senate. You cannot then try to change that Statement by telling us how it should have been framed. Your role is to tell us when you will give an answer.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I undertake to bring the answer the first week after coming back from recess.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is the Senator in order to anticipate debate? We are in the Senate and are not aware of any recess. Is he in order? He should be able to give us timelines in terms of two weeks.
Order! The truth is that there is a Motion for Adjournment because we all know we have a calendar. He is working on the assumption that we shall follow the calendar. I, therefore, do not think that he has done anything wrong.
Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, the KTDA farmers who are the actual farmers were not involved in the transaction of that business. Where they were to transfer 4---
Are you riding on the Senator’s Statement?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir. I am riding on the same question so that whoever will be answering that question, will come with an elaborated response which will include my concern. He should tell us whether the farmers involved were made aware that the money was to be transferred to Imperial and Chase Bank and not Co- operative or any other bank of their choice. It is like a few directors decided that they were to bank that money in Imperial and Chase banks and not any other bank of the farmers’ interest.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will bring one answer---
You should take into account what Sen. Karaba has said.
Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I think Sen. Sang was completely out of order. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order! You know the rules of debate Sen. Mositet, and when I rule on an issue like I ruled on the Sen. Sang issue, I do not think it is right for you to come back to it and make your own ruling. That is the normal way to do things. End of Statement time. Nobody is seeking for a Statement?
Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I have not heard of the timelines set so that I can---
He said that he will give you a Statement on the first week after we resume from recess. That is if we are going on recess.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir.
The Leader of the Majority is not here to issue the weekly Statement. Is there anybody with that instruction? Well, let us proceed.
The last person to speak on this was Sen. Boy Juma Boy. It is open for debate. The floor is open.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to support this Motion. However, I support it with an amendment. I beg to move:- THAT, the Motion be amended by deleting ‘full stop at the end and inserting the following words; “…laid on the table of the Senate on Wednesday 27th July, 2016 and pursuant to Article 113 of the Constitution and Standing Order 155(3) of the Senate Standing Orders, approves the mediated version of the Bill.” I request Sen. Sang to second.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to second this amendment. This amendment seeks to address an issue that we discussed yesterday while discussing this Bill in the sense that what we are discussing is an adoption of the report of the Mediation Committee. Standing Order 155(3) of the Senate Standing Orders, provides that we should have a Motion to adopt the Report together with an agreed version of the Bill. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Sen. Cheruiyot! Sen. Sang’ just now, talked about you being the very ardent latest addition to the Senate.
Nobody is seeking the Floor. Mover of the Motion!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank the Senators who have contributed to this Motion. I also thank the young Senator who has amended the Motion as approved now. It is important we go on record that the Mediation Committee actually sat every day in the last two weeks because the business in front of the committee did not only include the Community Land Bill but also the Land Laws Amendment Bill. The content of the Community Land Bill and the reason it was rejected in total meant that we had to mediate on 48 Clauses including the Title and the Long Title; that adds up to 50 Clauses. To mediate on 50 Clauses of an emotive land law is not a small job. That is the reason, in the first instance, we sought the intervention of this House to have a seminar which was held at Crown Plaza Hotel so that we could, first of all, have the input of all the Senators before even the mediation could start. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Do you want to make any request under Standing Order No.54?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think I already did that but if you like I can repeat it.
No, it is not a question of liking.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.54(3), I request that you defer putting of the question until another time in view of the fact that we require the requisite numbers in the House.
Next Order! ADOPTION OF THE MEDIATION COMMITTEE REPORT ON THE LAND LAWS (AMENDMENT) BILL
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, the Senate adopts the Report of the Mediation Committee on the Land Laws (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.55 of 2015) laid on the Table of the Senate on Wednesday, 27th July, 2016 and pursuant to Article 113 of the Constitution and standing order 155 (3) of the Senate Standing Orders, approves the mediated version of the Bill. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have just concluded giving the actual analysis of what we did in the mediation of the Community Land Bill. I want to reiterate that the Mediation Committee that dealt with the Community Land Bill was the same that dealt with the Land Laws (Amendment) Bill which is the subject matter in front of the House right now. Prior to us going to mediation, we noted that during the Liaison Committee The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was a Member of the Mediation Committee on the two Bills. In the case of the Community Land Bill, our concerns have been mainly on how the community land is to be defined and registered.
Point of information. Like I said, I would like to inform my learned friend, the Senator for Marsabit, that we are on the Motion for Land Laws (Amendment) Bill but not the Community Land Bill. Apparently, we were together in the mediation on both matters. So, the seconding that I need is on Motion No.9 on the Order Paper.
Sen. Hargura, we are on Order No.9
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for that guidance and I will be brief. We had discussed, as a Mediation Committee, the Land Laws (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.55 of 2015). When we attended the Senate half-day retreat at Crown Plaza Hotel, what came out clearly was the feeling that there was a lot of movement or shift from the NLC to the CS, Lands, in terms of land issues and that is The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. Kivuti, I am reminded that this is an issue affecting counties. Just make a request under Standing Order No. 54 (3).
Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have very little to reply because no adverse arguments have been brought forth on this Motion. My reply is that I urge the House to adopt this Report because a lot of efforts have been put in it and the agreed positions are as written in the Report and they are for the interest of the entire country. Pursuant to Standing Order No. 154 (3), I do request---
It is Standing Order No. 54 (3).
I stand guided Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Pursuant to Standing Order No. 54 (3), considering we do not have the requisite number in the House, I request that the putting of the question be deferred to another time.
So ordered. Next order!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I beg to move:- THAT the Senate adopts Report of the Mediation Committee on the Water Bill (National Assembly Bill No.7 of 2014) laid on the Table of the Senate on Wednesday, 27th July, 2016 and pursuant to Article 113 of the Constitution and Standing Order No. 115 (3) of the Senate Standing Orders, approves the mediated version of the Bill. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Mediation Committee on the Water Bill did not have a lot of issues to disagree on. The Water Bill has been a subject in this House for a long time. Since 2014, we have been debating this Bill. We have had several seminars on this Bill and we have had involvement of the public on two occasions. There are five issues which brought complication after the final Report was adopted by this House and a few clauses were rejected by the National Assembly. When we met as the Mediation Committee, I was elected as the Chairman and we resolved all the issues within less than an hour. We took around 34 minutes. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, having said that, I would like to thank the members of the Committee because they were all referring to the new law, constitutionality and all the issues from a very informed point of view. Without belabouring the point, that is why The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to second.
Since there are no people willing to contribute on this, I therefore, request the Mover to reply.
Thank you Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I have previously just submitted that the issues which were the subject of mediation were very few and they were all agreed upon between the National Assembly and the Senate. They were all in accordance to the laid down procedures and they were all making the Bill very good. I, therefore, request that, pursuant to Standing Order No. 54 (3), you defer the putting of the question to another time because we do not have the requisite numbers at the moment.
I order the putting of the Question to be deferred to a time when we will have sufficient numbers.
Hon. Senators, since we do not have numbers to go for Division, I defer Order Nos. 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 and 19 to the date when we will have numbers to vote.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have the requisite authority to reply on order No. 20.
Please allow the Clerk-at-the-Table to read out the Order.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am the Chairperson of the Committee on Land and Natural Resources. My Committee has already done even the public participation and the committee stage recommendations which were laid down on the table of the senate yesterday. While The Senate Majority Leader may not be present now, all the details that were used in the moving, actually came from my committee. The issues which were discussed by the senate pursuant to this new Bill are so good. Almost every contributor yesterday was supporting the bill because physical The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Senator, are you replying?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am replying to the fact that all the contributors supported the Motion. In my reply, I request this House to approve the Bill as laid in the House. This is a matter affecting counties and, considering the fact that we do not have the numbers, I request that you defer putting the question, pursuant to Clause 54(3) of the Standing Orders, until another time.
I therefore defer putting of the question on the said Bill.
I am made aware that this Order was debated exhaustively. This is not a matter affecting counties.
NOTING OF REPORT OF THE COMMONWEALTH WOMEN PARLIAMENTARIANS REGIONAL CAPACITY BUILDING WORKSHOP THAT, the Senate notes the Report of the Commonwealth Women Parliamentarians Regional Capacity Building Workshop held in Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania on 20th – 23rd January, 2016 laid on the Table of the House on Thursday March 17, 2016.
The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
This Order was also exhaustively debated. Since it does not affect all counties, I will put the question.
AUDIT OF BASIC EDUCATION FUNDS THAT, whereas Article 53 (1)(b) of the Constitution provides that every child in Kenya has the right to free and compulsory basic education; RECOGNIZING the importance of education in the alleviation of the main challenges facing Kenya’s sovereignty identified at independence, namely; poverty, illiteracy and disease; APPRECIATING the gains made following the implementation of the free primary education program in 2003 and cognizant of the principles set out in the Basic Education Act of 2013 whose objectives include promotion and regulation of free and compulsory basic education besides providing for accreditation, registration and management of basic education institutions; NOTING the substantial resources invested by the national and county governments, parents, sponsors and development partners in the provision of basic education; FURTHER NOTING that pursuant to the Basic Education Act, the County Director of Education is vested with numerous responsibilities including facilitation of auditing of all basic educational institutions in the respective county thereby leaving fundamental gaps of governance especially in the management of the available resources; NOW THEREFORE, the House recommends to the Cabinet Secretary for Education to facilitate the creation of the office of an auditor to specifically audit the basic education institutions’ funds to enhance transparency and accountability and improve governance in the management of these institutions.
Since the Mover of the Motion is not here, we will defer it.
INSTALLATION OF CCTV CAMERAS IN POLICE STATIONS AND POSTS THAT, CONCERNED about the numerous reports of the arbitrary arrests of innocent people by the police; The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Since the Mover of that Motion, Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki, is not here, let us also defer it.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, pursuant to Standing Order No.28(3), the Senate adjourns until Tuesday 13th September, 2016.
Order, Senate Minority Leader!
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, yes.
Could you assume your official position? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
It was moved and seconded.
Order, Senate Minority Leader! You look very exhausted. So, just assume your seat. Hon, Senators, when the House adjourns, we do not put the question.
There being no other business, the Senate stands adjourned until Tuesday 13th September, 2016 at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 5.10 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate