Hon. Senators, I wish to report to the Senate that pursuant to Standing Order No.40(3) and (4), I received the following Message from the Speaker of the National Assembly regarding the passage by the Assembly, of the County Assemblies Powers and Privileges Bill (Senate Bill No.14 of 2014). “Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.41(1) of the National Assembly Standing Orders, I hereby convey the following message from the National Assembly:- WHEREAS The County Assemblies Powers and Privileges Bill (Senate Bill No.14 of 2014) was published vide Kenya Gazette Supplement No.54 of 22nd April, 2014 as a Bill concerning county governments, seeking to give effect to the provisions of Article 196(3) of the Constitution by providing for the powers, privileges and immunities of county assemblies, their committees and members and to make provisions regulating admittance to and conduct within the precincts of county assemblies; WHEREAS the said Bill was passed by the Senate on Tuesday, 2nd December, 2014 and referred to the National Assembly for consideration, and whereas the National Assembly passed the said Bill on Wednesday, 5th October, 2016 without amendments and in the form passed by the Senate; NOW THEREFORE, in accordance with the provisions of Article 110 of the Constitution and Standing Order No.41 (1) of the National Assembly Standing Orders, I hereby convey the decision of the National assembly to the Senate.” Consequently, pursuant to Article 110(5) of the Constitution, the Bill will be referred to the President for assent. I thank you. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.! The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a Bill from the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. I am happy that the National Assembly has agreed to our Bill without any amendments. At the risk of sounding mischievous, I would like to suggest that you accompany that Bill to State House and have it signed in your presence, as a sign that the Senate is working. Otherwise, we will lose the opportunity when the Bill is signed in the presence of other people.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I support Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.’s assertions. Three weeks ago I had a meeting with the Members of the National Assembly to partly interrogate the Bill that I had presented before the Senate. They were really amused that we are not working on the basis that, that was the only Bill they had of 2015. Therefore, it would be necessary for you to accompany that Bill, so that people can know that there are also Bills that emanate from the Senate and are assented to by the President upon the completion of the processes internally in Parliament.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as we celebrate about the happenings in the National Assembly, assent to a Bill does not necessarily mean that it turns into law. We have ‘the Sang Bill’ in limbo because of the court process. This process should be fast-tracked so that we see the light at the end of the tunnel of “the Sang Bill.”
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Machage! Just because different things have different fates does not stop us from working. The House needs to appreciate this kind of collaboration between the two Houses that has resulted into this one. For purposes of Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., this is our Bill. Therefore, it will only be natural that I be there.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to issue a Statement on the business of the Senate for the week commencing 18th October, 2016, pursuant to provisions of Standing Order No.45. The Senate Business Committee (SBC) will meet on Tuesday 18th October, 2016, at 12.30 p.m., to schedule business of the Senate for the week. Subject to further directions by the SBC, the Senate will continue with business that will not be concluded in today’s Order Paper, focusing on debate on Bill in the Second Reading and Committee of the Whole stages. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise under Standing Order No.45(2)(c), which provides for issuance of the statement by the Senate Majority Leader. It says:- “The Senate Majority Leader or, in his or her absence the Senate Minority Leader or, in the absence of both the Senate Majority and the Senate Minority Leader, a member of the Rules and Business Committee designated by the Senate Majority Leader for that purpose shall, every Thursday or on the last sitting day of the week, present and lay on the Table, a statement informing the Senate of the business coming before the Senate in the following week.” It is self-explanatory. Why is Sen. Murkomen flouting Standing Order No.45 (2) (c)? Was it with the leave of the Speaker or the Senate Minority Leader?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am very conscious of my role as the Deputy Majority Leader, which Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale should be aware of. The role of the Deputy Majority Leader includes deputizing the Senate Majority Leader for every responsibility. There is a relevant Standing Order which defines the Office of the Senate Majority Leader and in the same way, the Office of the Deputy Majority Leader and how they relate together, just like the President and the Deputy President.
What is it, Sen. Muthama?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. First of all, Sen. Murkomen was not a point of order because he never got clearance from the Chair. Secondly, the point of order that was raised by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale was directed to the Speaker himself, but not Sen. Murkomen. Therefore, is Sen. Murkomen in order to stand and start responding to a point of order that was raised to the Speaker? Does he understand how the House is managed here when it comes to points of order? To conclude, the Senate Minority Whip is here and the Standing Orders are clear. When you called for the Senate Majority Leader, it was upon the Senate Minority Leader to stand up in place of the Senate Majority Leader. However, his Deputy stood up and ran to come and start reading the Statement. Is he in order?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have debated this before. Just for the avoidance of doubt, the position of the Senate Minority Leader is not delegated to him by the Senate Majority Leader. Therefore, the correct interpretation of the Standing Order No.45(2)(c) is that it is only in the absence of both that another person, which includes Sen. Murkomen’s capacity as Senate Deputy Majority Leader, is designated specifically. He cannot be a shadow for purposes of this Standing Order. You have directed this before, but for better clarity, provided the Senate Minority Leader is in the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are not angling to make statements here, but we urge you to enforce the rules. The Standing Order quoted by the distinguished Senators who have spoken before me is very clear. I know that Sen. Murkomen might run to Standing Order No.45(2)(d), but it does not apply. It only applies where, for example, the Senate Majority Leader was to move a Bill. If he is not in the House, then he can ask his Deputy to move a Bill. Otherwise, Standing Order No.45(2)(c) is explicit in its entirety. It is either the Senate Majority Leader or the Senate Minority Leader and in our absence, any Member of the Senate Business Committee (SBC) which may include Sen. Ong’era, Sen. Orengo, Sen. Murungi, Sen. Mugo, Sen. Muthama and so on. Nowhere is it said that in our absence, our deputies would issue the statement. Mr. Speaker, Sir, therefore, we urge you to enforce these rules strictly for the future. It reminds me of General Alexander Haig running to a television station and saying he was totally in charge when President Reagan was shot by Hinckley.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this issue seems to be contagious because it had been discussed previously and the ruling was that the Senate Majority Leader and Senate Minority Leader, as referred in this Standing Orders, are offices. I remember we argued much about that, but the ruling was that they are offices and not individuals. So, as you make the ruling, please, make it very clear so that this is resolved henceforth.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have never been and I am not hungry for power. I have never been in the situation of Sen. Wetangula and I do not seek to be as hungry as he is. You can see how passionate he was that he is not issuing the statement. This is a very simple statement and anybody, in my own regard, can issue it. If Sen. Wetangula is really passionate that he should do it, I will gladly surrender to him.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Could you correct the Senator for Elgeyo-Marakwet because my name is not Sen. Wetangula? It is me who stood in this place and raised a point of order. How can he refer to me as Sen. Wetangula?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, yesterday, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale brought the analogy of Luhya dogs. If a dog barks, it does so on behalf of its owner. You could see the truncation and the relationship between the one who was doing and the substantive one who finally came with a lot of passion. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want us to look at Standing Order No.19 which defines the role of the Deputy Senate Majority Leader and Deputy Senate Minority Leader. I know the Senate Minority Leader would like to suffocate his deputy, but the Standing Orders already define that whenever the Senate Majority Leader is absent or unable to perform his or her functions, the Deputy Senate Majority Leader shall perform the functions of the Senate Majority Leader in an acting capacity. This Standing Order does not have an exception. It covers all the deputation of the roles of the Speaker and there is a similar provision regarding the Senate Majority Leader. There is also a similar provision for a whip and his or her deputy. As I said earlier, it is my disclaimer that I am more than happy to hand over the paper to Sen. Wetangula to read it. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I have just walked in, but I was following this live debate on radio and I heard clearly Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale ask you to rule in view of Standing Order No.45(2)(b). Sen. Murkomen is now taking advantage of that to impute improper motives on the Senate Minority Leader and we should not let this to continue. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale was very clear. He wanted to know whether Sen. Murkomen was in order in view of Standing Order No.45(2)(b). We do not want to listen to Sen. Murkomen’s opinion or views, but we would like to get the ruling of the Speaker on this particular matter.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I stand on Standing Order No.90(3). If you listened to Sen. Murkomen’s contribution in his point of order, he did refer to a Luhya saying on dogs which in this context in today’s discussion was an insult to the Senators according to me. Is he in order?
Let us conclude this matter. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is an important point. Standing Order No.19 is not applicable because in all places where there is a deputy - in the absence of the substantive chair, whether it is the Speaker, the President or a governor, then the deputy will perform functions in acting capacity. However, Sen. Murkomen wants to imply that in the absence of the President, then Deputy President becomes the Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces. That is not possible. That argument is what we call a circumlocutory argument and it is not applicable.
Order, Members! I hope mine will not be. This is a small point. Standing Order No.45(2)(c) states that:- “The Senate Majority Leader or, in his or her absence the Senate Minority Leader or, in the absence of both the Senate Majority and the Senate Minority Leader, a member of the Rules and Business Committee designated by the Senate Majority Leader for that purpose shall, every Thursday or on the last sitting day of the week, present and lay on the Table, a statement informing the Senate of the business coming before the Senate in the following week;” I am trying to interpret that together with Standing Order No.19(2) which states that:- “Whenever the Senate Majority Leader is absent or is unable to perform his or her functions; the Deputy Senate Majority Leader shall perform the functions of the office of the Senate Majority Leader in an acting capacity.” I am inclined to agree with Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. that this is in terms of other processes, but Standing Order No.45(2)(c) is very clear. The practice which must have coloured our judgment was that we have the Senate Majority Leader and his deputy working as one office. Secondly, in that particular circumstance, Sen. Murkomen is also a The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, a man who dies to read a statement and wants to be the President of Kenya--- Your guess is as good as mine. This is just a straightforward statement.
Deputy Senate Majority Leader, proceed.
Order! Senators! Sen. Murkomen, relax and take it easy. You can still read the statement like Senator Haig.
But Mr. Speaker, Sir, you have to protect me from Sen. Wetangula and his surrogates. However, I will continue reading the Statement. As I conclude, allow me to remind you that we have substantial business pending before the Senate, especially Bills as well as other oversight responsibilities that are being spearheaded by committees. As we approach the homestretch of the final lap of our term, I request Senators to put more effort to facilitate the Senate to dispose of the pending business which firmly entrench the legacy that was introduced to the Senate in the annals of our history as a country. I hereby lay the Statement. I thank you. This Statement was signed by Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, the Senate Majority Leader and read by Sen. Murkomen on his behalf.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I know that in the past you have ruled on this matter, but it is important for us to get the clarity regarding the person who signed the statement. Sen. Murkomen read it and said it was signed by the Senate Majority Leader (Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki) and Sen. Murkomen. It is important for us to know who signed it.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was trying to remind---
Order, Sen. Murkomen! You need to abide by our rules. You have to put a request. It was obvious that you were to respond, but you still need permission. You may now proceed.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. Sang has raised a very important issue which must not be ignored with regard to the direction that you gave. The statement was The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Members! Let us not fight shadows that do not exist. The point of order raised by Sen. Sang was on a straight forward matter. The statement is under the name of the Senate Majority Leader (Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki), and it is dated 13th October, 2016. Secondly, it is not signed and there is no provision for the presenter to be enjoined in it. Today, we have raised real issues and I will recommend that in future, the Standing Order No.45(2)(c) must apply just like in all other things. All statements must be signed. There has been an assumption that it is so obvious, but you have raised all those other possibilities. We are a House of rules and records.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale? I hope you do not want to address this matter because we have concluded it.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, you have introduced an entirely different aspect on our concerns when you said that the statement that has been read by Sen. Murkomen is not signed. That is not admissible under the rules of this House. With your kind permission, since the Senate Minority leader is present, he be allowed to prepare a statement, he signs it and reads it for it to be admissible. If Sen. Murkomen wants to know which Standing Order I am proceeding under, he is free to visit my office. I will be happy to teach him.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is absolutely important that we deal with this matter conclusively so that it does not recur. This is because this is the third or fourth time this matter is coming to the Floor. In view of the revelation that you have just made to the House that the statement is not signed, I request you to make a ruling on whether the statement is valid because the rules of this House are very clear. The rules state that any statement or document laid on the Table must be duly signed. Secondly, my assumption of the anticipation of Standing Order No.45(2)(c) was that the Senate Majority Leader or the Senate Minority Leader are laying these statements on behalf of the Senate Rules and Business Committee because they are the leaders of both sides. There is no seniority here. I also want you to make a ruling on what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has just raised because I believe that either of the two leaders can sign the statement.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale of the Luhya parables has made a very serious allegation. He has said that anyone who stands on a point of order can just say that they are rising on a point of order and they do not have to say under which point of order are they are rising. If someone challenges him to say under The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Members! I will dispose of this one because you decided to go this route. That is the route we shall pursue. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, it is not your privilege or an opportunity for you to be visited by a Member when you are challenged on the Standing Order you are citing. Unlike other Members, you have always asked of the same. This is your opportunity, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, now to state the Standing Order under which you raised the matter.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as a medical doctor, I understand that communication has got three aspects which are the origin of the sound, the recipient and the medium of that communication. The origin of the message was Sen. Murkomen about the Standing Order, this House was the medium and the recipient was me. In my view, I am absolutely under no obligation to understand what he has said as the source of that sound in the manner he wants me to have understood it. When I raised the point of order and from what I have heard, Sen. Murkomen was not challenging me to state under which Standing Order did I rise. He challenged me to state where in the Standing Orders do I find my allegations. If you wanted me to say which Standing Order, I would have done that. I, therefore, request that the Speaker does not wade into our debate with Sen. Murkomen. You allowed the healthy exchange to continue now and in future. Do not protect him.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise under Standing Order No.110(i). You ordered Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to state the Standing Order under which he challenged Sen. Murkomen. That was the order from the Chair. Instead, he has come up with a lot of stories. He is abusing the privileges. He is very disorderly; violating the procedure of the Senate. Is he in order? Is he not grossly showing misconduct to this House?
Order, hon. Senators! First, I would have allowed this one to die a natural death except that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale usually insist on matters of points of order. It is only natural. Secondly, you have taken it completely out of context. I can understand where it originates from and ends. As a doctor, regarding the medium, I do not see any of your professional skills applying. If anything, it belongs to physical scientists like yours truly. Having said so, Sen. Murkomen took you on specifically on the issue of which Standing Order. He made that request. You only referred to it when you had the Floor, but he said, “Which one? Therefore, your Speaker is not interfering. In fact, I have allowed so much latitude in these discussions which are not completely necessary. For you to impute improper motives that I am protecting a particular Member just because you have been challenged is wrong. However, I have made an observation. I do not want to do an over kill on a non- issue. I will leave it to your conscience, but in terms of the substantive issue Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale raised in terms of whether this statement to be laid on the Table is admissible The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I thank you for giving me this chance. It will be very bad if it remains in the records of this House that I deliberately in any way suggested that you are favouring or interfering with Sen. Murkomen. I did not mean that. Allow me to tender my apology to you and withdraw, if those words meant that to you.
Equally important, I was deliberately reminding Sen. Murkomen that at this point in time, he should know that when I proceeded, I did so under Standing Order No.1(2).
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, we are not refusing this matter. I thought in appreciation of your good discourse of the receiver, originator and medium, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving us 30 minutes to enjoy comic relief in the House. I wish to request for a statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations, a Committee I belong to. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.45(2)(b) to seek a statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations concerning the Kenyan refugees from Uganda who have been camping at the gate of the Senate since Monday, 10th October, 2016. In the statement, the Chairperson should address the following: - (1) What is the ancestral origin of these refugees? Where is their ancestral and/or acquired land in Kenya before they were displaced to Uganda during the post-election violence of 2007/2008? (2) Is it true that some Government officials visited Uganda and promised to resettle these refugees just as it did to some of the Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) on their return to Kenya from Uganda? (3) Why has the Government not honoured its promise to settle and integrate them despite the fact the refugees bear supportive documents from the Department of Refugee Affairs dated 16th May, 2015? I will avail a copy of such documents to the Chairman. (4) Why has the Government not shown concern for their plight since they started camping at the Senate Gate? I drove past the gate last night at 11.00 p.m. and they were in the cold and they are our fellow Kenyans. (5) What is the general status report of IDPs and/or Kenyan refugees and returnees in Kenya and what is the Government doing to ensure that all of them are resettled? It is important to note that early this year, this House was informed that each IDPs had been resettled and none was left anywhere in the country.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Allow me to ride on this very important requisition for a statement. I am privileged to be from the region where, originally, the IDPs who unfortunately found themselves in Uganda came from. They came from either Lwakhakha, Busia or Malaba. The Chairperson should explain and clarify to this House that since there is no record in Lwakhakha, Malaba or Busia of any property belonging to them – be it land or a shop – having been taken over by the locals, why are they finding it difficult to go back now that they have left Uganda?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to ride on the same question and request to know from the Chairperson; how many children have been left out in the streets and how many women are suffering? What measures are they taking to secure their good health because the scorching heat and cold in the night is too much and they are suffering? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, documentation of these IDPs who went to Uganda is not a secret. They are known which communities they originate from. Since that record is available to the Government, can these IDPs be given Kshs400,000 each that was favoured to the other IDPs who were in this country?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this statement will require a rigorous investigation. This is because when my colleague was speaking, he indicated that they might have come from a different part of the country. In view of that, I think the Cabinet Secretary (CS) will require not less than three weeks ---
They are carrying banners. They are from Uganda.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, they are from Uganda.If they are from Uganda, they should go back to Uganda.
We will require three weeks to do a thorough investigation and bring a response to the House.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. We are talking of women with children and no hygienic provisions. They are not allowed to enter the precincts of Parliament to use facilities like toilets or wash themselves and they have been lying at the gate from Monday. Even if a comprehensive answer will be brought later, we want a remedial measure to be taken so that these Kenyans, if they are and even if they were not, we are obligated under international law to protect any persons on our territory. In the interim, what measures can be taken to remove these women and children from the gates of Parliament and put them in some place where they can get some facilities of comfort, food and security?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I concur with him. It is not very pleasant to have these people squatting at the gate of the Parliament. We will communicate to the Cabinet Secretary (CS) concerned that there should be some interim arrangement for them to be relocated from where they are right now. VISA PROCESSING RECIPROCITY BETWEEN KENYA AND EUROPEAN NATIONS
Mr. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.45(2)(b), I rise to seek a statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations, regarding visa processing reciprocity between Kenya and European nations such as Switzerland and the United Kingdom (UK). In the statement, the Chairperson should explain the following:- (1) To what extent is visa processing for Kenyans travelling to Switzerland and Swiss nationals traveling to Kenya reciprocal? (2) Does Kenya require bank statements from Swiss nationals traveling to Kenya to, for instance, attend United Nations (UN) Habitat functions or elsewhere in Kenya? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is very straightforward State requirement. We will attempt to answer it within a week. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have a statement to make.
You will bring that statement on Wednesday, next week.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will not be here. I have written to you that I will be going---
Sen. Adan will be here.
No, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is my personal statement and not Sen. Adan’s.
Order, Sen. Haji! I am referring to the statement sought by Sen. Kagwe. It will be issued on Wednesday, 19th October, 2016. I am aware of yours and it will be done the normal way although you have not requested. Proceed, Sen. Haji.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order 45(2)(a), I rise to make a statement on an issue of a general topical concern regarding the plight of the Makonde people living in Kwale County. The Makonde people are natives of Mozambique and Tanzania where they enjoy full recognition as citizens of the two countries. Kenya hosts a significant population of the Makonde people residing in Kwale County, who first came into the country over 50 years ago as labourers. As I was coming, I saw they were demonstrating trying to reach State House. The population of Makonde has been increasing over the period to about 3,000 persons since they came to Kenya more than five decades ago. Despite the Makondes being almost as old in the country as Kenya itself, they remain unrecognized by the State and are thus Stateless. Mr. Speaker, Sir, lack of recognition of the Makonde by the State has led to their stagnation, consigned to the fringe of society and entangled them in poverty as they cannot access formal employment for they do not have national identification documents. Many of the Makonde have been born in Kenya and, therefore, as per Chapter 3 of the Constitution on Citizenship, are citizens of Kenya.Others are citizens by virtue of the time that they have spent in Kenya, which as I mentioned before, is approximately over 50 years. They can become naturalized citizens. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the matter raised by the Chairman of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs is extremely important. Just like the Tesos, we have some in Kenya and also in Uganda. We have the Masaai and Kuria in both in Kenya and Tanzania. We have Luhya in Kenya and others in Uganda. Why is the Government failing to see that the Makonde people of Tanzania are the same Makonde people of Kenya? The Constitution of Kenya at Article 15(2) reads:- “A person who has been lawfully resident in Kenya for a continuous period of at least seven years and who satisfies the conditions prescribed by an Act of Parliament may apply to be registered as a citizen.” Mr. Speaker, Sir, these people have been here for over 50 years. What are we still waiting for? In fact, I am surprised that the Office of the Registrar of Persons in this country is allowing this shame to continue, exposing the Jubilee Government for what it is; one that is not able to implement this Constitution. The Government should immediately offer registration documents to all these people who are our brothers and sisters in this country.
Order, Members! Before we proceed with that particular Business, let me recognise the presence of visiting pupils and teachers from Umaa Primary School in Makueni County. They are sitting at the Public Gallery. In our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to Parliament, I extend a warm The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I salute Sen. Haji for raising that issue. Many of our colleagues sitting in the comfort zones of Government would not wish to be associated with such issues. I salute you.
The Makonde people live along the coastline of Kenya from Likoni all the way through Vanga, Tanga, Dar es Salaam, Ruvuma and to Nambula in Mozambique. If you go to Mozambique, you find beautiful Makonde carvings---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have been a Minister of Foreign Affairs for 10 years. Do you know that?
The Makonde people are industrious and artistic people. The best carvings in Africa are from the Makonde people. The Constitution of Kenya enjoins the Government to give the Makonde people and any other people who live in this country citizenship. Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. Haji has brought the matter to the Floor. As we salute him, I urge the Chair that as a leader in your own right, and the head of this House, to take it up personally and write on behalf of the Senate to the Government of the Republic of Kenya to point out this issue and ask the Government to issue citizenship papers to these people. You can imagine these are people who have been here for up to 80 years. It means their children cannot access our schools at higher levels because if you do not have an identity card, you cannot go to a university even if they are qualified. They cannot get jobs, own land or do anything because they do not have identity cards. This is the height of folly and we urge this House to resolutely resolve that the Makonde people who live in Kenya are Kenyans and must be granted citizenship and all the benefits and rights that go with citizenship.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in applauding the statement by Sen. Haji, it would be best for this issue to be looked at wholistically and ask who the other marginalised communities or individuals suffering the same fate as Makonde people are. The issue should be addressed in addition to the ones that Sen. Haji has spoken about. There are communities of a similar nature. There are more communities like the Makonde population in this country. Am I in order to request that when the Question will The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to join Sen. Haji in bringing out the issue. The Makonde people have been around for a long time, but they have not been granted citizenship documents.They have been suffering wherever they are. We also need to check how they have been living with the communities where they reside. Apart from raising the issue, we need to have a resolution of the House which will ask the Government to immediately give these people their rights since they have lived here for over 80 years. We have been told they are industrious people and we know how important the carvings are to the tourism industry. They can contribute to the economy of our country if they are granted citizenship.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to join my colleagues in supporting the statement that was presented by Sen. Haji. Honestly, the Makonde problems have been highlighted severally in the press. However, I realise that there is no seriousness on the part of the Government. As we await the issue to be resolved, quite a number of communities that live along borders have problems. They include the Somalis who are subjected to two vetting processes. I wish all Kenyans, including the Members of the Senate knew that we have a vetting community at the local level and a national committee. There seems to be a deliberate attempt by the Government not to allow Somalis to recognise themselves as Kenyans just like what the Makondes are going through. So, the Cabinet Secretary needs to address this entirely as a matter that affects a number of genuine Kenyans and those who should have been naturalised like the Makonde people. Therefore, we expect an answer that will capture all people who are suffering across Kenya.
Bw. Spika, ninataka kumshukuru Mhe. Haji kwa taarifa aliyoileta hapa Bungeni kuhusu jamii ya Makonde. Kupitia uongozi wa Spika wa Bunge hili jamii hii itapewa vitambulisho. Walipata masaibu mengi sana jana walipotoka Kwale kuja hapa Nairobi kuwasilisha malalamiko yao katika ofisi ya Rais. Wakiwa njiani walipata shida nyingi . Walishikwa pale Voi na Kwale. Walinyaganywa funguo za magari yao na hata pesa walizokuwa nazo mifukoni. Bw. Spika, hawa ni wananchi wanateseka. Nikiendelea kuzungumzia mambo yale yamesemwa na Sen. Haji, ninaomba Wasomali wote pahali walipo wabadilishe jina lao. Ni afadhali wajulikane kama Waria. Kwa mfano, mimi nikienda Tanzania na ninataka kuishi huko nitabandikwa jina la Mkenya, lakini nitapewa kitambulisho cha Tanzania. Kwa hivyo, Wasomali wanaoishi hapa kutoka nchi ya Somalia wajiite Waria wa Kenya ili wapate vitambulisho na huduma zingine. Ukisema Msomali ni Msomali na wakutoka Somalia, basi hiyo italeta utata.
Kwa hoja ya nidhamu, Bw.Spika. Sen. Muthama, amezungumza vizuri lakini sasa anataka sisi tubadilishe jina letu kuwa Kikamba au jina gani?
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Bw. Spika, kuna shida katika taifa letu. Mtu hawezi kuja hapa akaishi miaka 80, amezaa watoto, akawalea na wengine wamezikwa hapa, lakini hapati kitambulisho. Ni lazima tuwe taifa la watu ambao wanajua wanaelekea wapi na tunaonyesha ulimwengu kwamba sisi tuko mbele ya wengine.
Bw. Spika, kwanza naomba kumpongeza kakangu, Sen. Haji. Ukweli ni kwamba mnyonge anyongwe lakini haki yake apewe. Mimi ni mzaliwa waVipingo. Jamii ya Makonde wanaishi Vipingo. Kwa hiyo, nitavaa junga niungane na jamii ya Makonde kwa sababu mimi nililelewa nao kule Vipingo. Makonde walikuwa wakikata makonge kule Vipingo. Tumekaa na wao Vipingo miaka mingi sana. Wazazi wao na babu zangu walikuwa wanafanya kazi mahali pamoja, Kwa hivyo, ni huzuni kubwa kuona mimi nimekuwa Seneta na niko hapa na watu wangu ambao tulicheza nao nikiwa mchanga hawana vitambulisho. Ningekuwa nimetoka nje, watu wangeshangaa labda imekuwaaje kwa sababu ni watu ambao tulilelewa pamoja. Kwa hivyo, lazima tuona vile ambavyo tutawachukua kama jamii yetu. Ni watu wa kufanya kazi kwa bidii sana. Jamii yetu si wafanya kazi kama watu wa jamii ya Makonde. Kwa hivyo, hawa ni ndungu zetu, watoto na wazazi wetu.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It will be in the great interest of this Senate to use this opportunity created by Sen. Haji to prepare a Motion for resolution of this House for the recognition of the Makonde Community under the Citizenship Act. That would be a resolution that this House can follow through. I am prepared to move such a Motion because then we can enforce it. The unfortunate thing about Kenya is that we recognise the people we should not recognise and the people we should recognise we ignore. Kenyans would find it easier to become Australians because in four years they are recognised and they can vote. However, people who have been in this Republic for so long are mistreated. We have made citizenship look like acquiring blood from a stone. That is the best method and I propose, while thanking Sen. Haji, that we move in that process.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the plight of the Makonde people in this country actually is a shame. Looking at our first post-Independence Constitution which was drafted by our fore fathers like Jomo Kenyatta and Hon. Martin Shikuku, it recognised this fact. It provided that all foreigners who were living in Kenya at Independence Day would automatically become Kenya citizens if they applied. That is the constitution. If you look at Article (15)(2) of the current Constitution, it is constantly abused by the Government to communities such as the Kuria, the Somalis and others. We have women who have been married to those communities from Tanzania who are in their 60s or 70s and have never been recognised up to now. We are abused because we are a community with, probably, the lowest population in this country. It is not proper. The Constitution must be followed. I support Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.’s suggestion of a Motion so that this can be discussed in details and passed as a resolution in this House.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to thank all the Senators. These are Kenyans who came to our country in 1910. It is time we recognised the Makonde people as Kenyans. It is a pity that people who came here in 1910 do not have The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
There is no other issue. Are there any requests? The Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget will answer a statement requested by Sen. Kagwe. He is entitled to ask for a statement as a Senator of Nyeri County.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Statement was requested around August and we were wondering what would happen by 1st October, 2016. We got the Statement on 9th August, 2016 when the House was on recess. Since the Statement may not serve what is currently happening, we need to take it back so that it can be updated. We have discussed this with Sen. Kagwe and he has agreed.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): It is not the issue of Sen. Kagwe. You owe the House an apology.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Statement came on 9th August, 2016.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is the date today?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, today is 13th October, 2016. We went on recess and when we came back, Sen. Kagwe was not around.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order, Sen. Mositet. How many weeks was it to 1st October, 2016 when you received the request in August? All I am requesting is a humble apology to the House because that situation has had to be this way.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I apologize for not communicating to the Senator, even though he was also not around. The Statement has been in the House since 9th August, 2016.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. It is okay now that you have apologized.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding of what Sen. Mositet has said is that he will bring an updated answer to this House because the one that was presented was overtaken by events. I just wanted him to clarify that, that is the position. Perhaps he could indicate to us when that Statement will be brought.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Do you still want 1st October as your deadline? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
No, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. In our discussion with Sen. Mositet, we talked about what would have happened by then. What he would presumably do now is to bring us a report of what transpired for the benefit of the House.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): It is so ordered.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, from the outset, I apologize to the House and my big brother, Sen. Muthama, for the delay in the issuance of this Statement which is long overdue. I want to report to the House that we got two separate statements, one from the National Land Commission (NLC) and another one from the Ministry of Lands, Housing and Urban Development. On Tuesday next week, we have scheduled for a meeting as a Committee to harmonize these two sets of replies to come up with a single Statement that we can issue to this House probably, on Wednesday or Thursday next week, if we are given the opportunity. As it is now, I have two sets of Statements, but they are very raw; I cannot issue them as they are. With your indulgence we need to prepare a proper Statement to issue to the House.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You have been given the opportunity as requested. It is ordered that you produce the Statement on Thursday next week.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I sought this Statement on 23rd February, 2016. At that time, the advert to allocate that land freely to unknown people had already been put up. As I speak, the allocation is going on despite the fact that there a lot of grievances by the residents of Machakos County. Under those circumstances, we should not keep moving this issue forward. I seek the indulgence of the Vice Chair to at least order the stoppage of the allocation of the said land to allow for serious consultations with the stakeholders who have raised issues. When the advert was put up, they wrote to the NLC and the Ministry, seeking audience so that they can explain themselves and express the way things are, but they have been denied that opportunity. The land is being given out. On Tuesday, there will be something else and Thursday is a national holiday. We will go on recess and by the time we come back, the land would have been given out. In this country land grabbing is real. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I need the indulgence of the Vice Chair.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Vice Chairman of the Committee, what do you have to say about that?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I apologized for the delay. It is true that the Statement was first sought on 1st March and not April; I have the full records. My Committee has no powers to stop the allocation of land that is continuing. As I have said, we will respond to the issues that were raised by the Senator next week. If the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The issue of fraudulent alienation of public land in this country is not a secret. In this particular case of Machakos County, we may invite the Vice Chair and the House to take judicial notice of the fact that the current Governor of Machakos County has been quoted in public media inviting people, particularly from the Middle East, to come to Machakos and be given free public land, which is held in trust for the people of Kenya in general and the people of Machakos County in particular. I would want the Chair to direct the Committee, deputized by my distinguished brother, Sen. Khaniri, to summon the Chairman of the NLC, the Minister for Lands, Housing and Urban Development, the Governor of Machakos County and put these facts to them, so that they can stop the reckless alienation of public land to persons who use it for speculation and not economic production.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Vice Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Lands and Natural Resources has said that he does not accept the report that was submitted to the Committee. This report was done on the 6th April, 2016 and has been kept. The Committee has seen it for the last 10 months yet they have not acted. The answers are very shallow and totally unacceptable, yet the Committee is not accepting. What are we waiting for, this being October? Although the Vice Chairperson says that the Committee does not have powers, it can write and say that the issues raised, and the answers you gave us do not give justification for one to continue doing what they are doing. If this is the position written by the National Land Commission (NLC) Chairman and the Cabinet Secretary (CS) for Lands Housing and Urban Development - Prof. Kaimenyi, they are coming up with issues that are not addressing what is happening on the ground. Who is going to save the people of Machakos from having their land given freely to unknown people, yet they are saying: “We have 2,500 squatters?” There is an issue with the East African Portland Cement where the lease is very clear. It was given lease to mine minerals for making cement, but they are selling the land today. The people of Machakos are asking to be given an opportunity to purchase the land. However, the reply says that the land belongs to East Africa Portland Cement and the people of Machakos cannot buy it. It is being sold to foreigners by an institution owned by the public. Where are we going in this?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well. I have heard you clearly. Sen.Muthama, can you listen. I have heard what you and the Vice Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Lands and Natural Resources have said. The conclusion I make is that you have lost confidence in the Committee in handling this matter. That being the case, it may not be prudent or wise to do what I had hitherto ordered the Chairperson, Standing Committee on Lands and Natural Resources to do. I will order that the CS, Ministry of Lands and Urban Development and his team that includes the Chairperson NLC, the Principal Secretary and all those officers that you as a Committee think are necessary should be invited to the House for a Committee of the Whole to give answers to this contentious issue as raised by the Senator for Machakos. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): What is it, Sen.Muthama?
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when should the meeting with the CS, Lands and Urban Development take place because the timing is very important?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): This is urgent because there is bureaucracy. Try to see whether you can summon the CS Lands and Urban Development within one week, but I am sure two weeks will be adequate for this. Two weeks puts us somewhere. Write to him and tell him that this is urgent. Summon him using all the powers that you have.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I could not agree more with your ruling. We will go by the instruction and write to the CS Lands and Urban Development to summon him to appear before the Committee of the Whole on Wednesday, next week. However, I am not very comfortable with the words just used by the Chair with due respect, that you have lost confidence in the Committee to handle the matter. I request that this be expunged from our records because it is the same Committee that you are asking to summon the CS Lands and Urban Development. If you lost confidence in the Committee, then you would not be asking them to summon the CS. I want to bring it to the attention of this House that answers do not come from the Committee but from the Ministry---
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Order. If you listened to me carefully- I believe you are a good listener - I did not talk about this Chair losing confidence in the Committee. I talked about the questioner who is Sen.Muthama not being happy with the Committee’s handling of the issue, and has therefore, lost confidence. That is why I have made the other decision.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not want to get into this confidence issue. This Statement was written on 6th April, 2016. Your office may wish to help the House on why a Statement written from the NLC on the 6th April, 2016, finds its way to the House on 13th, October, 2016. These are the facts that appear on the Statement. If it had come and been postponed continuously, that would be another matter. However, if it has truly taken that long, the tradition of this House is that the Chair normally directs that Statements be issued in two weeks or any extended time depending on the request of the Chair of the Committee.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Yes, Sen.Khaniri.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I agree that the Statement from the NLC came on 6th April, 2016. It is not the Chairperson Standing Committee on Lands and Natural Resources that schedules the business of this House, with all due respect. Statements are scheduled by the House Rules and Business Committee before they appear on the Order Paper. When they appear, it is now our duty to issue the Statement. However, I cannot schedule business on the Order Paper, with all due respect.
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Yes. Sen. Muthama.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You are all right; from Sen. Wetangula, Sen. Khaniri and Sen. Muthama. Even when a Statement is not listed on the Order Paper, we have a leeway where the Committee Chairperson can say: “I have a Statement and I am ready to read it to the House.” The idea of having the House Rules and Business Committee allocating time is neither here nor there, because you also have the powers to request to read the Statement. You are also correct that being an obedient observer of the laws and Order Papers of this House, then I give that leeway on your comment. All said and done, I conclude the way I have concluded. Let us have this done urgently. If Sen. Muthama or Sen. Wetangula is interested, I can ask the Secretariat to do a postmortem and give us a report on how this report has been handled by the House. So, that is ordered. Can I have that report on the Speaker’s table to give us a true report because the Chair of the Committee is fairly or unfairly accused? Let us go to the next statement from the Chairperson, Standing Committee on Education. I do not see both the Chair and the questioner. BURNING OF SECONDARY SCHOOLS IN KISII COUNTY
Chairperson, Standing Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries! I do not see the Chairperson and the questioner. INCREASE IN THE PRICE OF MAIZE FLOUR
Chairperson, Sessional Committee on Implementation! That is a question by Sen. Wangari. I do not see the questioner and the Chairperson. STATUS OF IMPLEMENTATION OF THE SENATE RESOLUTION ON THE DISAPPEARANCE OF TWINS AT PUMWANI MATERNITY HOSPITAL
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Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Indeed, this statement has been pending in the House for a very long time. Last week, the presiding Speaker directed that this statement be issued today. I still want to insist that the urgency of this matter is serious. Farmers are waiting to know the fate of what has transpired since the said banks collapsed with their money, and KTDA which is responsible for this should assist the farmers because it is the last day today when money for the farmers is disbursed. This is important. I want to urge you to direct that this answer comes to the House soon before we break for recess.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): The Speaker need not to be giving orders and repeating orders that are disobeyed, left and right. I order that the Office of the Speaker writes to the Chair of this Committee that we need this answer on Tuesday in writing and with an apology.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Indeed, earlier this week, this matter came to the House. I agree with the decision you have just taken that a letter be issued to the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries so that he can deal with this matter speedily. As you know, tea farmers all over the country have been rioting in the last few months because of the low payments that they were paid for their farming activities. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the situation is pretty bad. People are impoverished out there because the organization that is entrusted with the management of the tea farmers’ money has given out the money to collapsing banks. This is a serious matter and we cannot sit in this House, doing nothing. I agree with you and request that a strongly worded letter be done to the Chairperson, Standing Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries so that we have an answer here by Tuesday next week.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Very well for the emphasis. Next Order!
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I do not see Sen. Gwendo. So, the Motion is deferred.
What is it, Sen. Wetangula?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. As the leadership in the House, one would expect that any distinguished Senator who has business on the Order Paper is obligated to be in the House to prosecute their Motions or the Bills or whatever business. The Senate Business Committee has balloted and scheduled business on the Order Paper and the Member who is supposed to prosecute the business is not in the House, and the Chair has not informed the House he has an apology from such a Member. I think such business ought to be dropped and to appear after six months as per the rule. There are other Motions that we have put on hold to ballot these Motions on a priority basis. The day is going to be wasted because the Members are neither here nor have they told the House where they are.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Indeed, Sen. Wetangula, and that is the tradition and you have been in Parliament for a long time. I think this is your fifth term and you know this is the practice. It becomes difficult for the Speaker to rule on such an issue especially that this was an ongoing Motion. I find it difficult to allow this Motion to continue without the Mover of the Motion taking notes because at the end of it, he or she has to reply. I have taken note of your concern and request. Since she had not been warned about this, I am sure this has been on the Order Paper for quite some time. We have been seeing it in and out for quite some time. Let the Senator be told that this Motion will be on the Order Paper on Tuesday next week and that will be the last time she will be given an opportunity to conclude her Motion. Otherwise, I will have no alternative but to agree with the Members that we drop this Motion. What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I will in no way want to appear to challenge your ruling. I understand you. As you know, the tradition would be; when Order No. 8 was read out, the Speaker is not supposed to look for the Mover of the Motion. If it is resumption of debate, the Clerk advices the Speaker who had the Floor last time. Then if that person that had the Floor is not there, he forfeits that chance and allows somebody else to contribute. I am afraid that if we move otherwise, we shall be introducing a precedent which is not the case in Parliament.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): You are very right Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale in one way but what happens to a Mover of a Motion who does not want to be present when his or her Motion is moved? I have been advised by the Secretariat of the same that this is an ongoing Motion, and I have been given a list of the people who participated. I have also keenly listened to Sen. Wetangula whose contributions were also important to make matters of this House meaningful. I have decided that we defer this Motion to Tuesday when the Member will be here to move it. That is my decision. It may not be good to your ears but you cannot challenge the Chair. It is unfortunate. If you have The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): The Committee Chair is not in to move the Motion. Is there any Member of that Committee who has been mandated to move this Motion?
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I have received a request from Sen. Mositet. You need to put the request on the Floor of the House.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am ready to move the business under Order No.10 on the Order Paper. However, my seconder is not there. When I was drafting this Motion, I had discussed it intensively with the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Education, Sen. Karaba. He was supposed to be my seconder. I request that we defer it until when he will be around.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Next to you is a former Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Education, Sen. Kagwe, among many other Members. There is no Member who seems ready to second you. Very well, that is legitimate, we will defer this.
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Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion; THAT the Senate adopts the report of the Standing Committee on Information and Technology on the County Oversight and Networking Engagement (CONE) To Migori, Bomet and Narok counties, laid on the Table of the Senate on 3rd March, 2016. The Information, Communication and Technology (ICT) Committee has been visiting various counties around the country to assess how much input and attention has been given to the matters of information and technology. From the oversighting engagements that we have been to all over the country, it is very clear that those counties that are investing in ICT are doing better at revenue collection among other activities than those that are not. It is also clear to the Committee that those counties that do not invest in ICT will be left behind by the counties that do. In future, the counties that will claim marginalization will have clearly marginalized themselves because they will not have invested in the future. Examples have been given to us of counties that have invested in ICT and literally, the county revenues have gone up five times. One of the counties that have really improved in revenue collection through ICT is my own county, Nyeri. We have seen marvelous investments in ICT. In Eldoret, Uasin Gishu, we have seen implementation of video conferencing by the county government. In Kisii, the county assembly is investing heavily in ICT. In Migori, where you come from, we saw advertising via ICT billboards that are bringing in revenue. The County Government of Migori charges for the advertising billboards. Rather than simply having a billboard that is sticking around some place and being used by only one company over a very long time, that county has implemented a system of advertising by use of ICT. We were very impressed by what we saw particularly by the commitment of the county government. The Governor and the County Executive Committee Member (CEC) for ICT were there to receive us. We were sure that our engagement with them would result to a higher percentage of revenue being allocated to ICT activities. We went further to Bomet County where Sen. (Prof.) Lesan comes from. At the risk of embarrassing him, it was very clear that Bomet County was just beginning to understand what ICT was. The governor was nowhere to be seen. We met a junior ICT officer who did not understand the purpose of the visit by Senate. We were not there to see the kind of computer they were using. We were there to see, observe and engage the county government on what they can do going forward to implement ICT programmes for the future. I must confess that we were quite disappointed at what we saw. In fact, the budget for Bomet County for ICT was extremely small. If that trend were to continue, then Bomet County would be left behind. In Narok, we saw an element of commitment to ICT. This county has huge potential in tourism. The Governor was there with his entire cabinet to discuss on how The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I rise to second the adoption of this Report which has been ably moved by the Chairperson of the Committee on Information and Technology. I want to thank the Committee for the seriousness with which they have approached this work. I would like to take this chance, having been a Member of this Committee before I moved to another Committee, to thank the Chairperson of the Committee who has a vast of experience in matters of ICT, having been the former Information Minister. He has been selfless in giving all the information and the expertise he has gained over the years to this Senate Committee for it to perform. This Committee is, indeed, performing and that can be seen from the reports that they present to this House. I also want to compliment the various counties in this country which have, in the very first instance, taken it upon themselves to accept that ICT is useful and have gone ahead to embrace and use it. As a Member of this Committee, I was one of those who visited various counties. I was impressed with what Uasin Gishu, Nakuru, Nyeri and Kericho counties have done in terms of ICT. They have used ICT to the maximum benefit for the people of their counties. The counties that have embraced ICT were keen on recruiting the right personnel to man the equipment for maximum benefit and they also purchased the best available equipment. These were counties that faced challenge in revenue collection. They immediately recognized that ICT was one of the things that they could use to increase their revenue.The Committee reports that these counties that embraced ICT have demonstrated tremendous increase in their revenue collection as a result of embracing ICT. We want to The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
You have done well. You need to be closer to your county so that you can tell them not to be allergic to ICT.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank you for giving me this chance to add my voice in support of the good work that has been done by a Committee that I have come to admire so much. I do not say this because I am a proud Member. The work they do is testament. For the few months that I have been a Member of this House, I have had an opportunity to read through some of the reports that are generated. While they are a brilliant work that I can speak highly of, this report is excellent. I have taken time to internalize the things that are being suggested. As a Senate whose primary mandate is to support the establishment of devolution in this country, the question that keeps coming on and on during our discussions, debates and interactions as Members of this House is, what is it that we can do to make sure that devolution succeeds and the dreams of the drafters of our Constitution are realised through this great direction that we took as a country. I would like to speak to three key things but before I go to the crux of my argument, there are two things I have realised this afternoon. As I listened to arguments being made by the Chairperson of my Committee and the seconder, the Senator for Bomet, Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, I have realised that; first, I think ICT is a solution to all the challenges that our county governments are facing. Later on, I will expound on this and give a proper overview of why ICT stands as the single item with which if we decided to invest and put our time and money into it, it can help us leverage on and overcome some of the challenges that we keep on referring to as teething problems in this very onset of devolution in our country. Secondly, I think anyone who intends to run for the position of governor in the next elections will do very poorly if he or she lacks ICT skills and without an ICT master plan in their manifestoes. This is because more and more county residents have realised the importance of ICT. The county that has been mentioned as being allergic to matters of ICTdevelopment will serve as a very bad example. I am sure that one of the things that The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I also rise to support the adoption of the Report. I also thank the Chairperson. I think among the Chairpersons in this House, we always salute the Senator for Nyeri County in the education sector and now in ICT and many others.He has always been committed and ensures that when he takes over, he shows exemplary leadership in terms of achieving what every committee wishes to achieve. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you have seen the challenges we have faced with many Government tenders and access to information. I thank the President for ensuring that his Government is digital. That is the way to go. We have had many challenges with the technocrats who feel that for the last 20 years, they have been doing business their own way. They always have in-trays, among others. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is Sen. Elachi, the Senate Majority Whip and a senior Member of this House, in order to castigate and bring in bad light a hardworking deputy governor in this Republic? Out of hard work, he managed to have in cash Kshs3.5 Million in the evening while going home. What is the problem of having Kshs3.5 Million in cash? Does the Senator have information or she imagines that this could be county resources in one way or another like it happens in other counties? In other counties, people go home with county resources. Could she shed some light on that issue so that she does not give the impression that it is wrong to have Kshs3.5 Million?
Sen. Sang, you are completely out of order. Sen. Elachi is a Member of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget and she has interacted with the Governor of the Central Bank. With the policies from the Central Bank, one should not be carrying money throughout. So, she knows what she is saying.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. In Parliament we make laws. When one withdraws Kshs1 Million, he needs to substantiate the source. The law requires transfer to where the owner wants to use it. Therefore, he need not carry lots of money. It is a risk to the owner. This is intended to remove the risk from individuals. If we want to help our country we must first embrace ICT. It will help us to be more accountable in all that we do in this country. With ICT, our people will be able to know what is happening within and outside the country. Nobody will bother us with questions because they will have information at their fingertips. People will trust each other because they will be getting the right information. University students and even high schools will find running fun because of ICT. Nowadays everything is done online. For example, students apply to join Kenya Medical Training College (KMTC) and other colleges online. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, finally, I urge our military forces to embrace ICT. They must go digital because that is the way to go. For example, during their recruitment exercise so many deserving cases are left out. How can we help an orphan who struggles to go to school be recruited in the Kenya Defence Forces, Regular Police or Administration Police? This is a person who was educated by a good Samaritan. Their system of recruitment is so rigid that children from disadvantaged backgrounds cannot be employed. If they embraced ICT, all those interested would apply through online and probably be employed. I support this Motion and urge all institutions in our country that have not embraced ICT to do so. The security systems in this country must embrace ICT. They should not be left behind when other sectors have already moved ahead with ICT. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I beg to support and thank the Committee on ICT. I hope the recommendations as contained in this Report will be implemented by the concerned Ministry.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I wish to support this Motion that has been brought to the House by the Committee on Information, Communication and Technology that is ably led by the former Minister for Information, Communication and Technology in the Republic of Kenya. Hopefully, the Chairperson The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is the Senator for Homa Bay in order? He knows very well that, that proposal was from the CORD Coalition and we adopted it. I thank God because he is now telling Kenyans that what we told them is true; it can never happen. Is he in order to say that I am looking at him interestingly, yet it was their proposal?
I think he is in order. On the other hand, you are not in order because it was a Select Committee Report and not a CORD report. You did a good job as a Member of that Committee and you should be proud. You should ensure that connectivity is achieved in every part of the country.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I also believe they did a good job. If the fund is to do what it is supposed to, then the proposal by the Select Committee is valid. You would expect that Kshs5 billion sitting with the CAK would not be laundered by the civil servants. It would be used to expand mobile coverage across the country. In a county like Homa Bay, which people might think is fairly exposed, there are certain corners and pockets where there is no mobile network coverage. If a polling station falls within that particular pocket, the electronic election idea will not be achieved. It is important for the Senate to interrogate the Universal Service Fund (USF) and ask how the monies have been used. For example, if you gave me Kshs5 billion and I do not account for it, there is nothing that stops me from running for governor of Nairobi or governor for Homa Bay because I have a slush fund. We also need to encourage counties to embrace professionalism when it comes to technology. If an accountant has to be employed, we insist that he or she must be a member of the Institute of Certified Public Accountants of Kenya (ICPAK). An engineer must be a member of the Institute of Engineers of Kenya. A human resources professional must be a member of the Institute of Human Resource Management (IHRM). What about the people who manage information technology, yet they have passwords and access to the most confidential files? It is time we legislated and put in place a certification framework for Information Communication Technology (ICT) professionals. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have a body called the Computer Society of Kenya (CSK). I am a technology profession but I am not a member of that society. I prefer to be a member of the British Computer Society (BCS) because the CSK is a briefcase organisation. The select Committee said that we should call the CSK to sit with other stakeholders to decide on the ICT policy on elections. You will get a briefcase carrier who will pretend to carry the aspirations of professionals. For those of us who are professionals and sit in this House, we need to have a certification, validation and accreditation scheme, so that when a county employs a chief information officer, there is the assurance that, that person belongs to a professional body. The same way we will have a chief finance officer in the counties, we need to have a chief information officer who will be responsible for the digital assets of the counties. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
You can get another two minutes, since you have not finished.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for your kindness. In 2013, being digital was seen as fashionable. It was a strong campaign messaging that some people were digital and others analogue. This time round, there is no luxury in being analogue and being digital will not be fashionable; it will be imperative for every player in the political contest. I want to encourage everyone in political contestation or a position of executive authority that being digital should not be seen as an option; it The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Well done Senator. You got the extra two minutes because you are a guru in that field.
Bw. Spika wa muda, ninampa pongezi Sen. Kagwe. Unamwona ana simanzi nyingi anapotukumbusha kuhusu teknolojia. Naomba kutoa hongera kwa Serikali yetu. Kama unavyojua, akopaye deni akilipa huwa ameondoa lawama. Kwa hivyo, vile Serikali ilivyokuwa imeahidi kuwa itapaeana vipakatalishi kwa watoto wetu, hilo ni deni ambalo linaendelea kufutwa. Kama mama, ama mzazi na wale mama wengine, sote tuna raha kubwa kwa sababu watoto wetu wameondolewa ule mzigo wa vitabu waliyokuwa wanabeba hadi mwendo ukabadilika. Pia, walijipata wafupi kwa mzigo mkubwa wa vitabu, lakini teknolojia itapunguza ile bughdha ya kubeba mzigo mkubwa sana wanapoenda shule ama kurudi nyumbani. Bw. Spika wa Muda, teknolojia ni wapi haitumiwi; iwe ni sokoni, hospitalini ama shuleni. Siku hizi ni rahisi sana kuwasiliana. Kila mzazi anawezakupewa habari ya mtoto wake anavyoendelea ama akapewa ripoti ya karo ilipofikia bila kujaza mafaili tele ofisini mwetu. Hata kwenye hospitali, mambo yamekuwa rahisi hivi kwamba, si lazima uende hospitalini ndio upate tiba. Tuseme umeenda Agha Khan Kisumu, siyo lazima uende mpaka Agha Khan, Mombasa. Unaweza kutibiwa popote pale kwa sababu ya teknolojia kwa kubonyeza kidude na kila jambo kuhusiana na yule mgonjwa litaletwa pale karibu naye. Teknolojia imeturahisishia kazi. Ninaomba kutoa shukrani sana. Kongole kwa Serikali yetu kwa kutoa ile mitambo ya Kisasa. Je, tuna ujuzi na teknolojia hizi ambazo zimeletwa? Kwa hivyo, tuone ya kwamba kila kaunti lazima ivae njuga na ijue kuwa hakuna mawimbi yanayongojea mtu yeyote. Lazima mawimbi yatatubeba. Kila kaunti lazima iwe na eneo ambalo limetengewa kiteknolojia ili iwe rahisi kwa wagonjwa wetu. Nimeongea kuhusu shule na supermarkets ambako huna budi kubeba pesa taslimu kwa sababu unaweza kuvamiwa na magaidi ama walinzi wako. Ukifika ni kutoa kadi na kulipa bili yako. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Hongera, Sen. Mshenga.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. I want to start by congratulating the Committee on ICT for the wonderful work they are doing. You will realize that these county visits by this Committee are pursuant to a resolution or Motion that they brought to this House and we approved it to ensure ICT is embraced in our counties. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the role and the importance of ICT in this country cannot be gainsaid. It is important that Senators support this Committee in adopting this Report. If you look at the Report--- I will focus on only two sections of this Report - the findings and observations of the Committee and on the recommendations. The Committee has established in one of its findings that two years after the Senate passed a resolution on the county connectivity, some counties are yet to be connected. It is important to note that the role of the Senate is to protect counties. When we sit down in this Senate to deliberate on some of these issues, we are able to do this knowing that they are things that will help our counties and they need to look at them in order to ensure that they are able to operate in an efficient and effective manner. Therefore, it is important for the counties to take keen interest in what the Senate proposes because there is a reason the Senate has sat down and why this Committee has proposed some of the proposals that we see in this Report. ICT can be used to improve the provision of services in our counties. One of the greatest challenges that our counties continue to face is with regard to local revenue generation and collection. We know every time we have the Division of Revenue Bill in this House, counties continue to complain of lack of adequate resources. We know that through the Division of Revenue Bill, we The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to contribute on this Report. First, I thank the Chairman of the Committee on Information and Technology. He has articulated important issues about information to the citizens of this country both at the national Government and the county assembly. My colleague Senators have talked about collection and expenditure of resources. I wonder why people in the counties do not know what is happening in their counties. The managers of the counties do not want to embrace ICT. It is unfortunate. If a county does not want to embrace technology, it means there is something fishy going on in that county. We would like the people of this country to know what is happening in their counties and the national Government. The Chairperson of this Committee mentioned civic education. I am not talking about civic education on the Constitution only but civic education on various things that are happening in our country. For instance, resources that the Government has planned to devolve to the counties to assist orphans, old people, women and youth. In most cases, many people do not know about these funds. They do not know how they can access these funds. They lack information because they are not connected to ICT. Fifteen years ago, we used to queue at the telephone booth to make calls. People could take more than one hour, queuing to make a call. A Chief Executive Officer (CEO) could write a letter, hand it to a typist or secretary for typing who then took it back to the boss to sign and then make a day to take it to the post office and wait for another four days for any kind of reply. There is no way we can avoid technology. Neither can we say that counties should not use technology. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, let me talk about a resource center in each sub- county. If today all the 47 counties were connected with ICT, I wonder if sub-counties would know what is going on if they are not also connected to a server. So, it is my request and maybe advice to this same Committee that as much as we are talking about counties, we also need to talk about sub-counties. This is because it is the only centre where people can receive information very easily. So, it is my request that we should embrace technology and do a budget for the same because it cannot work without a The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I also rise to support this Motion and the Report of the Committee. I am glad that this evening my colleagues have made very strong presentations on pubic participation. I listened to Sen. Sang and Sen. Chelule emphasize the need for adopting the use of ICT in public participation. Beginning with this Senate, whenever we have had public participation, particularly those that we hold at the Kenya International Convention Center (KICC), the Senate mainly uses the print media to communicate to people that we will have public participation. If it goes further, it uses radio. That is the technology of the 1950s. Radios and newspapers have been there all these while. Now, we are in the era of internet and, in fact, even people in the rural areas get messages on their phones. Otherwise, they would not be buying or subscribing to all these services that Safaricom offers. I think we should encourage it, beginning with this Senate, that communication with the public is now online. There should be a Senate session online on Frequency Module (FM) stations, Twitter, WhatsApp among others so that you can communicate with the people through a medium that they have access to. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the typical way by which county governments get people into public participation is not for the governor to announce that there will be public participation on a market day in a place like Akala or Kombewa knowing that people will be at the market. The day chosen for public participation is completely wrong. This is because people have gone to the market that day for a completely different business which is commerce. Then, you want to divert the attention into public participation. You will find the lay-abouts that will pay attention and so on. In the County Governments Act, the structure of devolution went up to the village level. The village council is composed of five people one third of which must be of either The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order Sen. Mutahi Kagwe! Who gave you the permission to speak?
Sorry, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.
I call on the mover of the Motion to reply.
Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. First, I thank all the colleagues who have contributed to the Motion. I particularly thank Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o, my friend and former teacher for teaching me good manners so that I did not want to tell him anything. I just looked at the watch and he got the message. The contributions have been very effective. Clearly, there is a passion and interest in this House for ICT. We hope that we can infuse the county governments and legislatures so that the enthusiasm runs across the country. Those of us who will eventually be governors next year have a very important role to play going forward in this matter. They can centralise and make themselves the ICT ministers just like President Kagame made himself the ICT Minister in Rwanda. Only then will we see the kind of results that we would like to see. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I promise those who made contributions and suggestions that the Committee will take their views seriously. We will present all the ideas to the Committee, the Cabinet Secretary for Information, Communication and Technology and if possible, to the President. I want to thank everyone who participated and the Speaker for his patience. With those few remarks, I beg to move.
This is a Motion which does not affect counties. I will proceed and put the question.
ADOPTION OF REPORT ON STUDY VISIT TO RUSSIA THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations on the study visit to Russia laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 15th March, 2016. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Hon. Senators, there being no other business, the House stands adjourned until Tuesday, 18th October, 2016, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate