Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Article No.119of the Kenyan Constitution and Part XXIV of the Senate Standing Orders, concerning historical injustices suffered by the Talai Clan, I present this petition on behalf of the undersigned who are the citizens of the Republic of Kenya, residents of Nandi County and Members representing the entire Talai Clan in the greater Nandi County and parts of Kericho County in the Rift Valley region. In the Petition, I wish to draw the attention of the Senate to the following- THAT, we are the members of the Talai Clan which comprise the following sub- clans; (a) Kapturgat; (b) Kapsogon; (c) Kapmararsoi; (d) Kapchesang; and Kapsanet. THAT, the said sub-clans are residents of Kapsisiywa Location of Nandi County, an area created under the Laibons Removal Ordinance of 1934 and many other members numbering approximately 10,000 are scattered across the Rift Valley Region including Kericho, Uasin Gishu, Trans Nzoia, Baringo, Elgeyo-Marakwet and Laikipa counties. THAT, the Talai Clan suffered numerous historical injustices from back in 1905 at the hand of the colonialists and continues to suffer from the effects of such injustices. These injustices include- (a) Systematic abuse of their fundamental human rights and civil rights by way of mass murder; (b) Detention without trial; (c) Economic crimes through unfair confiscation of their property including cattle; The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
I will allow you to finish
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, other concentration areas that the clan was banished to include Mfangano and Gwassi Islands in Lake Victoria, Kericho Township and Kapsabet Township. THAT, between 1923 and 1930, another prominent Talai leader, Barserian arap Manyei was forcefully banished to Meru and was thereafter moved to Kapmartagui where he was required to report every morning to the District Commissioner until 1957/1958. He was later exiled to Mfangano Island in Lake Victoria region alongside ten other leaders of his clan namely; Kirwa arap Chepkwony, Kapnyolei Ngererpei arap Busienei, Kiptololet arap Lelimo, Kimulot arap Chepkwony, Kipng’etich arap Menei, Chepkwony arap Matutu, Kina arap Koitaleel, Koringo arap Koitaleel, Kipsaina arap The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Thank you, Sen. Sang. Hon. Senators, pursuant to Standing Order 226, I shall now allow comments, observations or clarifications in relation to the Petition for not more than 30 minutes. So, that will end at 3.20 p.m. Since the interest seems to be quite high, I might restrict the time. Please, try to be as brief as possible. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first, allow me to congratulate Sen. Sang for this elaborate Petition on historical injustices visited upon the Talai Clan in Nandi County. The history is sad, particularly where a community such as this, can seek the burial of their leaders whose head they say is believed to be hidden in the British Museums. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I moved a Motion in 2015 seeking to request or compel the National Land Commission (NLC) to submit the Historical Injustices Bill to the Senate for deliberations. Under Section 15 of the NLC Act this Bill was supposed to be in place two years after the appointment of the Commission. I am glad that Sen. Sang has brought this Petition to the attention of the Senate. One of the functions of the NLC, under Article 67 (2) (e) is to initiate investigations on complaints of present or historical injustices. While Sen. Sang has ably prosecuted this Petition, I am sad to report that the Bill that would have ensured that the NLC has the power and procedure to investigate the historical injustices was sent to the Senate more than one-and-a-half years ago. I have a letter to that effect from the Chairman of the NLC, but that Bill has never seen the light of day. Similarly, the Bill was forwarded to the National Assembly. Instead of passing the Historical Injustices Bill, the Eleventh Parliament has attempted to sneak in amendments into the Lands Act. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
We will do three minutes in the first instance, so that I can accommodate everybody for 30 minutes. I think that is fair and reasonable. Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to congratulate Sen. Sang and the Petitioners. Although the Petition and desire of the people of Talai is older than the Republic of Kenya, it would have been incumbent upon every successive government to look at some of the injustices that were meted out on some communities or clans. In the Rift Valley the Talai Clan leads, given the misplacement that we have read and heard from their history. When I was a Permanent Secretary we visited Kericho and found the Talai confined to a corner – where the Commissioner stayed – so that they could be watched. Unfortunately, we inherited that kind of oversight to date. Members of that community have been buried very close to that place. Just as the people who fought colonialists in Mt. Kenya region were compensated about four years ago, it is incumbent upon the Government to follow up so that some of these people are compensated by being given land and locating the head and burial place of Koitalel arap Samoei. Indeed, it is important for communities to know where they came from and identify their leaders. We read from history that in 1923 there was a mass exodus of the Pokots, Sabaots and Marakwets from Trans Nzoia, and they remember to date. Justice should have been done by giving some money to those communities that were displaced from their fertile land. Some justice should have been done by compensating those communities who were displaced from their lands. There should have been some kind of compensation to the affected counties so that they can resettle people who went to dry regions. I support.
Your three minutes look rather long. I hope that the timekeeping is going to be correct.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is sad that after 53 years of independence, we have to discuss such injustices in Parliament. I remember I tried to interpret the Chapter on Land of the current Constitution and specifically addressed the National Land Policy which was a Sessional Paper No.3 of 2008, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have been the Provincial Commissioner for Rift Valley, and I am quite aware of the plight of the Talai Community. It is very unfortunate that when we talk about historical injustice, we are talking about what happened from 1963 to date. Yet, we are being told from 1834 the Talai people have been segregated, killed and their property taken away simply because they stood for the interest of this country. We are also quite aware that successive governments in this country have been addressing the land issue. Many settlement schemes have been ongoing but these people have not been considered. So, we appeal that from this Government onward, the plight of these people should be addressed. I pray for Sen. Sang that he will be the Governor for Nandi.When you become the governor set aside some money and hire a lawyer for them in United Kingdom (United Kingdom) so that they can get compensation like the Mau Mau. Those people cannot hire even a local lawyer because they do not have the resources to do that. With those few remarks, I support.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I wish to congratulate Sen. Sang for bringing this weighty matter to the attention of this House. From the petition, some of the Talais were sent to my county and particularly the areas of Gwassi, Lambwe and Mfangano. The intention was to make sure that they died due to theTsetse fly menace. Consequently, it is very difficult, when you go to Gwassi, to find remnants of the Talai. Even if you go Mfangano, they are very few, if indeed they are still there. So, this is a case where there was collective condemnation of an entire community. I do not think an entire community can be guilty of certain sins. I want to also bring into focus the case of the natives of Lake Bogoria who were called the Endorois. In 2010, the African Commission on Human Rights ruled that the Government had an obligation to resettle the Endorois or to restitute or to compensate them because they have been evicted by a post-independence government. They had been evicted by a government of Africans from their land. We could learn some lessons The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this petition, from the very onset. I know where this community lives in Kericho County. If you happen to visit where they reside, you will truly sympathise with their situation especially given their history. The only mistake they committed is that its leadership was made up of brave men and women who took on the Britons. The punishment they got was seclusion by being pushed aside, their land taken away and their patriots killed. Some of them who are listed in the petition have never been buried up to date. If you wonder why perpetrators of injustice in this country continue to do it with so much vigor and earnest, it is because they find themselves in good company. If past perpetrators and people who have trampled upon the human rights of others have never been brought to book, why should they be afraid? When you read the history of this country well, you find that communities like the Talai who we are discussing this afternoon have never been compensated or even received a formal apology or even the word “sorry” from the government, then you realise that we are indeed living in difficult times. Little wonder that we no longer have heroes; men and women who stand up to injustices and negative vices in society. It is not just in terms of how you treat communities but even people who carry out little acts that saves this country. I keep on reflecting about Munyenkei who was the whistleblower on Goldenberg and how he died a very poor man despite what he had saved us as a country. It is high time we reflected as a country and questioned ourselves deeply on whether this is how we want to continue treating our heroes or we want to leave a better society. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also want to thank the Senator for Nandi and the petitioners for bringing up this long standing issue of historical injustice. Indeed, this community has suffered for many years and the suffering that was meted on the Talai continues to affect their descendants. This issue needs to be addressed urgently by the Government. It is unfortunate that 50 years after Independence, it has not been addressed. This is only one case. There are many others. There are certain communities in this country that were completely displaced. I have in mind a community like the Sabaot otherwise then known as the Elgon Maasai who were indigenous residents of Trans-Nzoia County. They were banished in the same manner, some as far as Tanzania and some to Uganda. Their descendants The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to support strongly this Petition ably prosecuted by the Senator for Nandi. The irony of this Petition is that the first body to sufficiently address the matters that are being prayed for is the Truth, Justice and Reconciliation Commission (TJRC), and they did so in their Report. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the irony is that the chairman of that body was a Nandi by the name of Bethwel Kiplagat. A further irony is that as requested by Sen. Cheruiyot, none of the successive governments have bothered to even just say they are sorry. Is it not ironical that the current Government should have been the first to do so given that the Deputy President is also a Nandi? How money corrupts people! They have completely refused to be sorry simply because they are in positions that have zoned them into comfortable zones. Therefore, because this matter affects very many people in this country, I demand that the Government of President Uhuru Kenyatta implements the recommendations of the TJRC with immediate effect. As they do so, they should remember to tell the Colonial Government that they came to Roasterman in Kakamega which is now Ikolomani, Shikusa, Malinya and Lirembe and exploited and stole all our gold. Our people must be compensated. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, because the time remaining is very short, we hope that when “Baba”, Kalonzo, Wetangula or Mudavadi take over, they will do the obvious. I support.
Order Senators! Let us have some order in the House! Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, you have the Floor.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also congratulate my colleague, Sen. Sang for bringing this Petition and the petitioners who have signed it. As a young boy, in 1959, I witnessed the implementation of the Eviction Ordinance issued by Her Majesty’s Government. That is something that keeps coming back to my mind. I can remember seeing caterpillars or bulldozers bulldozing a house full of goats and I would see blood streaming out and going towards the river when I pass by there. That happened when I was looking after the goats around the area. So, I have vivid memories of the eviction process of the people including the Talais in 1959. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is very unfortunate that up to today, we have not had anything justifiably done for the community that was displaced. Today, there are no records as to what transpired during that time. I know the remnants of the Talai people who are victims of that and they still exist. Perhaps what we can do to assist at the moment is to create proper records to allow lawyers like Sen. Sang who is here – I am The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I congratulate the Senator for Nandi for having presented this Petition on behalf of the Talai Community. The Talai Community has to be compensated. Because of the shortage of time, I just want to refer to the last prayer which is about enabling the Talai to pursue their complaints against the British Government. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is already a precedent for this. It relates to the case that was filed in London on behalf of the Mau Mau veterans. The Mau Mau veterans raised their own money and filed that case but because of the heavy lawyers’ fees involved, they went to the then Attorney-General, Sitswila Amos Wako, to find out whether the Government could take over the case particularly as it relates to the payment of the fees of that case. In consultation with the then President Kibaki and others, we took over the payment of the legal fees of those people and also appointed an advocate who is now my successor to go and observe how that case was going. We also appointed Government lawyers to go and observe not only how that case was going but also to support the petition by the Mau Mau veterans. That was a precedent and it was never thought that the Independent Government could take over the liabilities of the former Colonial Government because the acts were done by the Colonial Government. Internationally, it was quite a case and people were asking how an independent state can take over the ills perpetrated by the Colonial Government but we succeeded. So, there is a precedent. As far as that prayer is concerned, it should be implemented forthwith. In fact, the Government should be proactive in ensuring that communities such as the Talai and others who were the first generation of freedom fighters---. They fought at the time when the colonialists came. All others are second generation freedom fighters who wanted independence and began fighting for it. The first ones were those who decided to fight the Whites who were coming into our country. Therefore, they must be honoured and we must assist those communities which were brave enough to face the Whiteman. In the Government being proactive to assist them in these cases, I would plead that they implement the TJRC Report and the decision of the African Court on Human Rights as far as the people’s rights of the Talai people are concerned, without further delay. This will show that they have genuine interest in dealing with this historical injustice.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir I also rise to congratulate our colleague, Sen. Sang and the citizens of this country who have sent here the Petition regarding the injustices carried out. I agree with the previous speaker, Sen. Wako, that it should be a Government effort. Part of the mandate of an independent nation and Government is to protect its people by ensuring that anything owed to the people of the country by a The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also join my colleagues in thanking Sen. Sang and the petitioners who signed and brought the Petition to this House. The issue of land and historical injustices is critical and touchy. The Talai community needs to be compensated by the Government. These people should look up to the Government of the day. If there is any case to be taken up outside the country, it is the Government that can compensate them or hire the lawyers for them. The Talai people are poor. As we know, they are living in very difficult circumstances. That is why I would like to thank Sen. Sang for bringing up this matter. If it is left like that, people will think that everyone got a good life after independence yet we have other people who are crying out there and they do not know where to go. We have the 1992 Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) who were displaced from Mount Elgon. These people are living in centres in Trans Nzoia County. I have the list with the names of these people who are about 4000. The Government of the day does not want to compensate them. In the next century, this will also be another case of land historical injustices. It is high time that the Government takes up this issue seriously. The Committee where the Petition will be referred to should look at the TJRC Report and check what the recommendations were so that this issue is brought to a halt.
Sen. Madzayo, I will give you three minutes.
Asante Bw. Naibu Spika. Naunga mkono malalamishi yaliyoletwa na jamii ya Talai. Makosa yaliyofanyiwa jamii hii ni sawa na yale yaliyofanyiwa Wagiriama na watu wengine wa Mkoa wa Pwani. Tumeona tabia za watu kuja Pwani na kupata vyeti vya kumiliki mashamba kutoka Nairobi na kwingineko kuweka waya kuzunguka jamii ya Miji Kenda. Hatimaye, hawa watu hufurushwa kutoka mashamba yao. Huu ni ukoloni mamboleo ambao unaendelezwa kule Pwani. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. Gwendo, you have two minutes.
Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would like to congratulate Sen. Sang for bringing this Petition to the Senate. Research has shown that the Talai community is the longest suffering community in Kenya. We can only compare their suffering to that of the Jews who suffered for many years. Research has shown that during the suffering of the Talai Community, 900 people died and they also lost their leader at that time. We would appreciate if the Government of today could also raise its voice and address some of these injustices. We should appreciate the fact that they are the people who fought for the freedom and independence of this country.
Thank you Senators. Hon. Senators, pursuant to Standing Order No. 227 (1), the Petition stands committed to the relevant Standing Committee, in this case the Standing Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. In terms of Standing Order No. 227 (2), the Committee will be required in not more than 60 days from the time of reading this prayer, to respond to the Petitioner by way of a report addressed to the petitioner and laid on the Table of the House. Sen. Sang, as the Vice-Chairperson of the Committee, I hope that you are going to set a proper standard by having the petitioners answered in the period of 60 days.
Let us move on to the next Order. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., do you have any papers to lay?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today Wednesday1st of March, 2017:- The Report of the Proceeding of the 135th International Parliamentary Union (IPU) Assembly and Related Meetings. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order! Sen. Khaniri, has that Statement been approved for this afternoon?
Yes, Deputy Speaker, Sir, it was approved yesterday.
Proceed. It is just that I do not have a copy.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will supply a copy to the Clerk. I rise pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 45(2) to seek a statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare concerning Legislations at the County Level on the Retirement Package for County Government Executive and Members of the County Assembly. In the Statement, the Chairperson should:- (1) Explain if the Cabinet Secretary, National Treasury and the Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SRC) are aware of the arrangement by individual county assemblies to legislate on retirement packages; (2) Explain the National Governments Policy direction on retirement packages for elected members in the devolved governments; and (3) Explain the legality of the legislation passed by the county governments on their retirement packages.
Which Committee is that? Sen. Mutula Kilonzo jnr., are you seeking the floor on a point of order before the chairman replies? Take the floor.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, last week, there was a communication to the effect that a Bill concerning this retirement should be tabled last week. So, as the chairperson addresses this issue, that query must be answered. What happened to that Bill that was supposed to take care of County Governments Retirement Scheme?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform the House that the Bill has gone through the First Reading. Probably in the next seven or ten days, the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare will be holding a public participation to receive all the necessary information from the stakeholders. We are on course as a Senate body and the Bill is ready. It caters for all the information that is being requested by my colleague, the respected Senator for Vihiga County. Mr. Deputy Speaker, with regard to other issues he has raised, I request the House to give me one week or so, so that I respond to them accordingly. I seek your indulgence. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. Madzayo, those are two different issues. The issue raised by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. has to do with the Bill that you brought and it went the First Reading stage. However, Sen. Khaniri’s request for a statement is very specific on county governments that have passed their own laws on retirement benefits, et cetera . We do not know when the Bill that was read for the first time will be read a second time and passed. So, I want you to divorce the two issues and answer specifically the issues raised by Sen. Khaniri on the statement that he has sought. I do not want the two tied together. However, if you find it fit to deal with the issues raised by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. when you will be issuing the statement in one week’s time, so be it.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am obliged by your guidance.
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, are you seeking for a statement. Was it approved?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It was approved yesterday and I was asked to request for it today. COLLAPSE OF A SECTION OF BUKHUNGU STADIUM IN KAKAMEGA COUNTY On 8th November, 2016, I rose pursuant to Standing Order No.45(2)(b) to request for a statement from the chairperson of the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare regarding the collapse of a section of Bukhungu Stadium in Kakamega County while under renovation. The answer has never been brought. However, since we are now in a new session, I have been allowed to renew the requisition. I, therefore, request the chairperson to confirm the following: (1) Whether the National Construction Authority (NCA) approved the renovation; he should provide proof thereof. (2) Provide a list of tender advertisement for the renovation of the stadium, the corresponding firms that bid and those that were eventually awarded the tender. (3) Provide minutes of the county tender committee together with the report of the county technical tender evaluation committee on the tender. (4) Provide the particulars and profiles of the firm(s) that were awarded the said tender, including details of directors, financial statements and tax returns. (5) State if the procurement procedure as provided for in the Public Procurement and Disposal of Assets Act was followed in awarding this tender. (6) Table a schedule of payments to the firm(s) that were awarded the said tender, stating how many completion certificates have been paid for and the total amount of money so far given to the contractor(s). (7) Provide the details of the resident engineer supervising the construction and copies of his recommendations against every completion certificate paid for to date. (8) Explain what caused the collapse of a section of Bukhungu Stadium. (9) Explain the steps the County Government of Kakamega is taking to ensure that there is value for money upon completion of the project and ensure that the current contractor is removed from the project and black-listed by the NCA. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order, Mr.Deputy Speaker,Sir.
What is your point of order, Sen. Kagwe?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while I support the request by the distinguished Senator of Kakamega, I want a clarification because if it is the county government that is undertaking that responsibility, is it the responsibility of this House to deal with stadia in Kakamega and Nyeri or elsewhere, is it the job of the county assembly to deal with that issue after which time it would come to this House either through the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget or as an audit report? I am not sure. I am just asking.
Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., what is your point of order?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is a point of information. My Chairperson of the Committee on Information and Technology is not averse to information coming from his Vice Chairperson. A similar question was raised by an assembly in court as to whether it is a contradiction for the Senate to interrogate financial matters of a county yet, ideally, that matter should be interrogated by a county assembly. The High Court has held that we have what is called a concurrent jurisdiction with the county assembly on matters of this nature. So, Sen. Kagwe may not be aware. This is a matter that has been fairly well settled.
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and Sen. Okong’o, are you raising different points of order or are you pursuing the same line as Sen. Kagwe?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to ride on Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale’s statement in the same line.
Let me dispose of the points of order first, and then, you can have a joy ride if you wish. Sen. Sang, is it the same?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I share the position given by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. Is Sen. Kagwe in order to apply to contradict the Speaker’s position? All statements are approved by the Speaker before you are allowed to take them.
Sen. Kagwe is raising an important point of law. So, I do not think there is any contradiction, dispute or subverting the Speaker on the issue. It is an important point of law. I do not want to preempt what I will say later. If your problem is that the Speaker has already approved it, and then, that would not be a valid point of order for my purposes. Sen. Okong’o, what was your rider?
But this is your statement. All you want to know is whether or not it would be committed to a Committee. That should be your interest. I do not want to have an altercation on this issue. So, what was your rider? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wanted to ride on Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale’s query considering the fact that I was preparing a statement regarding the collapse of Manga Stadium in Nyamira but I was waiting to prepare for the other issues he has raised. I wanted to ride on it so that if the query is committed to a particular Committee they can also capture Manga Stadium rather than the collapse.
I find that very difficult. My attitude has mainly been--- The trouble of having people seeking to ride on other people’s statements is that, a lot of time, it tends to dilute that statement that is issued on a specific matter that has been raised. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale wants to know about Bukhungu Stadium. He has raised several specific issues on that stadium. If you talk about Manga Stadium, I do not know what issue you have with it. You would have to seek a statement so that you can get a substantive and specific answer to the issues that you may raise; but if it is a general issue of technicality, then that could be done. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has sought a very specific statement. You are already on HANSARD. So, whichever Committee we will commit this to may want to look at what you have said. But I do not wish to see a dilution of a statement sought by a Senator because of so many riders on the issue. On the point of order by Sen. Kagwe, even without asking Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to answer to it, the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare will have the capacity to look at the issue. Stadia may be a function of the county governments like you have said but we have Article 96 of the Constitution. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. has quite ably, in the information that he gave you, dealt with the issue of concurrent jurisdiction that both houses may have and there cannot possibly be anything that can stop us as a Senate, from dealing with issues to do with the counties; whether it is nursery schools, polytechnics, stadia or things that are to be found in Part B of Schedule Four of the Constitution. Therefore, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is quite in order to bring this matter before the Senate. That disposes of any point of order that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale may have wished to raise.
But you have not disposed of this one. Sen. Madzayo, when will you give an answer to this?
Bw. Naibu Spika, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale yuko mbio sana. Maswali aliyouliza Daktari Bonny Khalwale anayepigana na ng’ombe ni mengi. Yote ni tisa. Yanahitaji ukakamavu zaidi kuyajibu. Ningependa kwa wajibu wa kauli yako nipewe muda wa wiki mbili ili niweze kuyafafanua na kuyajibu sawa sawa vile inavyotakikana na daktari wa kupigana na ng’ombe.
Sen. Madzayo, I am sure I am allowed to respond to you in English although you spoke in Kiswahili. This is a renewal of a request for the statement. If I got it right, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale said that he had sought it first in September last year. Sen. Madzayo, had you received an answer to this statement when it was first sought? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
La hasha, Bw. Naibu Spika.
What was the problem? How long had you been given?
Bw. Naibu Spika, siwezi kufahamu. Nafikiri naibu wangu alikuwa katika Seneti wakati huo. Kwa uwezo wa Kanuni za Bunge, unaweza kumpa nafasi ili aendelee kujibu lakini ikiwa jibu halijapatikana, basi tunaomba ule muda nilikuwa nimesema tunahitaji ili tuweze kulijibu.
Although given in fluent Kiswahili, that kind of answer is very unsatisfactory. I am not dealing with Members of the Committee. I am dealing with the Committee. You are the Chairperson of that Committee. It is also not right for you to tell me to ask the Vice Chairperson. That is unprocedural and in my view, very unparliamentary. You are the Chairperson of that Committee. You should have information. If you do not, you should say you do not and leave it at that, but you cannot refer me to somebody else. That is wrong. You must take responsibility for the Committee that you chair. Having said that, he has sought two weeks; Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, are you satisfied with two weeks?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you got it right. We need these answers as early as next week. It is very critical. Believe it or not, the construction has commenced with total disregard to the fact that it had collapsed. So, further billions are being sunk into this project. It needs to be stopped immediately.
Sen. Madzayo, in the first instance, I would give you seven days to clarify the position. You do not seem to be clear on whether the answer had been given or not. Give us a holding answer if you cannot give a full answer to the statement. What is your point of order, Sen. Khaniri?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. While we are still on the same agenda, did you hear Sen. Madzayo refer to his colleague from Kakamega as
This is in total contravention of our Standing Order No.90 (6), which clearly stipulates how we should refer to one another officially in this House. Is he in order?
Apart from the fact that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale seems quite satisfied to be referred to as such, it is totally out of order. The way you should address your colleagues is quite clear in the Standing Orders. Sen. (Dr.) Machage, what is your point of order?
Bw. Naibu Spika, singependa kupinga uamuzi wako, lakini tunajua na ishadhihirishwa katika Seneti hii kwamba Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale hufurahia sana anapoitwa daktari anayewapiganisha ng’ombe au bullfighter.
Mimi kama Naibu Spika sina hiyo habari. What is your point of order, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It cannot be correct to state that ‘daktari wa kupiganisha ng’ombe’ can be loosely translated to ‘bullfighter.’ We should not mislead the nation. Therefore, daktari wa kupiganishang’ombe cannot even be easily translated. Kuna daktari wa kudunga ng’ombe na daktari The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I agree with Sen. Madzayo that the version he gave actually reflects bullfighting. We have referred to Sen. (Dr.) Boni Khalwale severally in this House as ‘the bullfighter.’ However, did you notice that Sen. Khaniri crossed and consulted with the Clerk-at-the-Table on our side and walked majestically back to his seat, completely in breach of the Standing Orders, yet he is actually known to be an expert of the Standing Orders? If that is not out of order, then I do not know which other rules we will follow in this House.
Sen. Khaniri, before I dispose of this issue that you raised, did you actually do what Sen. Sang says you did? Did you cross the Floor without bowing?
Absolutely not, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I know the rules. I went to consult the Clerk-at-the-Table, but never crossed to the other side of the House. I believe that, that is allowed.
So, you were consulting from your half of the House.
Order! I will take Sen. Khaniri’s words that he consulted the Clerk-at-the-Table. I want to dispose of this point of order. The point of order raised by Sen. Khaniri had nothing to do with the interpretation, translation or anything else. It is not the Swahili version of it that is important to Sen. Khaniri; it is the fact that he did not refer to him as ‘Senator’ as required by Standing Order No.90 (6). That is the only issue before the House. With regard to interpretation in Kiswahili, all of you have different understanding of it, but that is not the issue. The issue is that he referred to him as ‘daktari wakupiganisha ng’ombe’ and not as ‘Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.’ That is the only issue before the House. Sen. Madzayo, you may wish to refer to your colleague by his correct title, which is, Sen. (Dr.) Boni Khalwale.
Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika. Mheshimiwa, Seneta, Daktari Boni Khalwale.
Sen. Madzayo, rules are meant to be obeyed and that is why we have Standing Orders. If we did not have Standing Orders, it would not be possible to have this House proceed in an organized manner. None of them is trivial.
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for Sen. Madzayo, who is actually my Chairman in the Committee we sit in together, not to procedurally apologize to Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale? He just corrected his mistake, but never apologized. It is important for him to apologize.
Did anybody seek an apology?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if it was not sought, I would request that you ask Madzayo to apologize. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
We must dispose of this issue now. What is your point of order, Sen. Wangari?
On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Standing Order No.90 is very clear. Therefore, I think it is Sen. Njoroge who should apologize for calling Sen. Madzayo just ‘Madzayo.’
Sen. Njoroge, I am quite satisfied that the matter is disposed of. We do not need to revisit it. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has not sought an apology. He is quite happy that there was a retraction and he was referred to as Sen. (Dr.) Boni Khalwale. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, do you have another Statement to seek? HARASSMENT OF BODA BODA RIDERS IN KAKAMEGA COUNTY
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on 15th June, 2016 I rose under Standing Order No.45 (2) (b) to request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations regarding the harassment of bodaboda motorcyclists in Kakamega. To date the answer has not come. I want to thank you for allowing me to renew the request for the Statement. The Chairperson should clarify the following: (1) Why are boda boda motorcyclists in Kakamega being subjected by police to: (a) confiscation of their motorbikes; (b) arrests, and; (c) demand for bribes? (2) Is the Inspector General of Police aware that the matter is so grave that some of the boys have actually lost their lives through extrajudicial killings? (3) What are the reasons one such a boy, Jaconia Apwoka, a father of four children aged one to four, was shot dead in cold blood on the morning of 14th June, 2016, at Sichirai Village in Kakamega? (4) What action has been taken against Police Constable Serem of Kakamega Police Station, who shot dead the above boda boda youth? (5) Why have no arrests been made and charges preferred against the above blood-thirsty officer, who has been involved in several other such cases of extrajudicial killings before in Kakamega County?
Chairman of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations. Is that Sen. Adan? Which Committee is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I will try and get the Statement within a week if it is possible, if not two weeks. Thank you.
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, two weeks I am sure is acceptable. Sen. Adan, you had a Statement you wanted to seek. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes I have two Statements. If you can allow me to proceed on both, I will appreciate. Pursuant to Standing Order No.45 (2)(b), I wish to seek for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Education regarding the delay by the Teachers Service Commission in promoting teachers in Isiolo County and the TSC decision to suspend the promotion of others. In the Statement, the Chairperson should:- (1) State and explain the criteria the TSC uses to promote teachers who previously held certificates and diplomas but have since upgraded to a degree. (2) Explain the delay by TSC in promoting teachers from Isiolo who have upgraded to degree since January 2014 to date. (3) Indicate when TSC intends to promote the teachers in paragraph (2) above. (4) Explain the reason behind the decision by TSC not to promote teachers who scored C+ and below in the Kenya Certificate of Secondary Education (KCSE) but have since upgraded to degree through a number of expensive accredited courses. The second Statement---
Can we deal with one Statement at a time? Chairman of the Committee on Education? Sen. (Prof.) Lesan?
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. We will deal with that on behalf of the Chair ofthe Committee on Education in two weeks time.
Sen. Adan, is two weeks okay?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is okay.
Okay. You have another Statement you want to seek? CHANGE OF LAPSSET CORRIDOR ROUTE AND RELOCATION OF THE PROPOSED ISIOLO RESORT CITY
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Pursuant to Standing Order 45 (2)(b), I wish to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Roads and Transportation regarding the reported change in Lamu Port, South Sudan, Ethiopia Transport (LAPSSET) corridor route and relocation of the proposed Isiolo Resort City. In the Statement the Chairman should:- (1) Indicate whether the Government intends to change the LAPSSET corridor route. (2) Sate whether the Government intends to relocate the site for the proposed Isiolo Resort City from Kipsinga near Isiolo Town to either Igembe North Archers Post or Kulamawe. (3) Explain the rationale of the above proposed changes. (4) Explain why stakeholders in Isiolo County were not consulted on the proposed changes. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
The Chairman of the Committee.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on a point of order. Allow me to ride on that very important national issue. That is an attempt by the Government to change the seat of the anticipated Isiolo Resort City from Isiolo to Igembe. Could the Chairman confirm that the reason why the Government wants to move the city from Isiolo to Igembe is because of political considerations; where successive governments have always believed that resources of the State should be used to develop, principally, Mt. Kenya area?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is it in order for Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to insinuate that Government resources are used to develop one part of this country? It simply amounts to inferiority complex which is beneath the distinguished Senator’s image.
Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., if you have a point of order on a different issue to Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, then you have to wait. Is it on this Statement?
Then you have to wait. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, the only problem with your point of order is that you are preempting the possible outcome of the Statement because Sen. Adan has not said there is going to be a change; she wants to confirm. If you want to raise that issue, raise it when the Statement is brought before the House, but not now because you are preempting the situation. The Chairman of the Committee on Roads and Transport.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have carefully listened to the request by Sen. Adan. I appreciate it is heavily loaded but we will try and bring a response in two weeks time.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on a point of order. Would I be in order to propose that you order that the Division Bell on the Division of Revenue Bill (National Assembly Bill No.2 of 2017) be rung? We extended the voting by one day. We went beyond the 10 days. So, substantially today is the only day we have and we have numbers and we cannot allow this to go as it is. Thank you.
Thank you, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., we are going to vote within no time, but I read you. Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o, I am sorry you had a Statement. Please, that will be the last one for today. PILFERAGE OF PUBLIC FUNDS BY THE MANAGING DIRECTOR OF KIWASCO
Pursuant to Standing Order No. 45 (2)(b), allow me to seek a Statement from the Chairman of the Sessional Committee on Devolved Government on the following:- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Sen. Wamatangi and other Senators. May I request you to please wait until we are able to vote, which we shall do immediately Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o has finished with his Statement? Order, Senators! Order, Sen. Wetangula! May I request that you remain seated? As soon as Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o has finished seeking the Statement, we will suspend business and proceed to the next order so that we can vote. So, I request that Senators do not leave at this point. Sen. (Prof) Anyang’-Nyong’o, you may proceed.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, somebody was asking what KIWASCO is. It is Kisumu Water Services Company. (3) Could the Chairman further explain what the conditions and terms of service are for such positions of Government and whether the KIWASCO Managing Director is serving with respect to these conditions and terms of service? (4) Explain why there is excessive employment of casual labour in KIWASCO and under what law is that casual labour force working? (5) Could the Chairman further explain why workers in KIWASCO are frequently dismissed without observing proper labour laws and regulations? (6) Could the Chairman undertake a forensic audit of KIWASCO revenue and expenditure to assert accountability in the company to avoid continued misuse of public resources? Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank you.
I can see the Chairman of the Committee is not around. Is there any Member of the Committee around? Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o, you seem to be out of luck. Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, you are a Member of the Senate Business Committee (SBC). Can you deal with the situation as an agent of necessity? How much time would you require?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not a Member of the Committee on Devolved Government.
I know that but you are a Member of the SBC.
The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Okay, I will give a direction that the matter be referred to the Chairman of the Committee on Devolved Government and the answer will be given in two weeks’ time. So, the Clerk’s Office will refer the matter to the relevant committee for an answer to be given in two weeks’ time. Hon. Senators, I propose that we proceed to the next Order. I propose that we do one Division for Orders Nos.8 and 9.
Let the Division Bell be rung for five minutes.
Hon. Senators, I want to make a request to you in good faith. We will deal with Order Nos. 8 and 9 like I said in one Division. So, we will have the two votes. As all of you are aware, because you have read the Calendar of the Senate, we are bound to go on recess tomorrow. I want to make a specific request to you and I hope you will agree with me. If you look at Order No.10 which is Committee of the Whole, it has to do with Order No.8 on Division of Revenue Bill and there is only one amendment on Page 149 of the Order Paper which is the proposed increase. My request is that we finish with the two Orders and then go to Order No.10 which is Committee of the Whole. We should deal with it and finish since the Chair of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget is here. I am convinced this amendment will not take more than ten minutes. We will finish with it and vote. We will then deal with the Division of Revenue Bill. Is that accepted?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Thank you very much. That convinces me that nobody will go out before we finish with the Division of Revenue Bill. Could the bars be drawn and the door closed?
Let us vote when you are ready. THE DIVISION OF REVENUE BILL (NATIONAL ASSEMBLY BILL NO. 2 OF 2017)
Hon. Senators, the results of the first Division are as follows:
Hon. Senators the results of the second Division are as follows:
Undraw the Bars and open the Door. Hon. Senators, we have a pact that we will deal with the next Order No.10. It will take a very short time.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Hon. Senators, we are in the Committee of the Whole, Order No.10; the Division of Revenue Bill (National Assembly No.2 Of 2017).
There are no amendments. Division will be at the end.
Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I beg to move:- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting the schedule and substituting therefor the following new schedule-
Division will be at the end.
There are only two Divisions. Let us not move out please. So, we go to Division. Let the Division Bell be rung for one minute.
Ring it for another one minute.
Very well, end of Division Bell. Draw the Bars and close the Door. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Hon. Senators, I wish to announce the results as follows:-
Sen. Adan, Isiolo County; Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o, Kisumu County; Sen. Cheruiyot, Kericho County; Sen. Elachi, Nairobi County; Sen. (Dr.) G.G. Kariuki, Laikipia County; Sen. Hargura, Marsabit County; Sen. Kagwe, Nyeri County; Sen. Kembi-Gitura, Murang’a County; Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, Kakamega County; Sen. Khaniri, Vihiga County; Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, Bomet County; Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, West Pokot County; Sen. M. Kajwang, Homa Bay County; Sen. (Dr.) Machage, Migori County; Sen. Madzayo, Kilifi County; Sen. Mohamud, Wajir County; Sen. Mositet, Kajiado County; Sen. Musila, Kitui County; Sen. Mutula Kilinzo Jnr., Makueni County; Sen. Nabwala, Trans Nzoia County; Sen. Njoroge, Nakuru County; Sen. Obure, Kisii County; Sen. Okong’o, Nyamira County; Sen. Sang, Nandi County; Sen. Wako, Busia County; Sen. Wamatangi, Kiambu County; Sen. Wetangula, Bungoma County.
Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Hon. Senators, I wish to announce the results as follows:-
Hon. Chairman, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the House its consideration on the Division of Revenue Bill (National Assembly Bill No.2 of 2017) and its approval thereof with amendments.
Draw the Bar and open the doors. Yes, Chairperson of the Committee? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered The Division of Revenue Bill (National Assembly Bill No.2 of 2017) and its approval thereof with amendments.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report. I request Sen. Wetangula to second.
(Sen. Wetangula) seconded.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that The Division of Revenue Bill (National Assembly Bill No.2 of 2017) be now read a Third Time. I request Sen. Wetangula to second.
(Sen. Wetangula) seconded.
Hon. Senators, since none of you is interested in debating this issue, I will now put the Question, which is that The Division of Revenue Bill (National Assembly Bill No.2 of 2017) be now read a Third Time. Ring the Division Bell for one minute.
We are now ready to vote. Start voting.
Order, Senators! The results of the Division are as follows:
Draw the Bar and open the door.
Hon. Senators, I will rearrange the Order Paper, so that we deal with Order No.12 in place of Order No.11. Let us go to Order No.12.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Hon. Members, apparently we do not seem to be having the requisite numbers. May the Mover approach the Chair, please?
The Mover is not there.
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): Who will report? Let the Division Bell be rung for two minutes. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
(Sen. (Dr.) Machage): I see we do not have the requisite numbers. Let us hear from the Mover.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.139, I beg to move that the Committee do report progress on the consideration of the National Assembly Amendments to Clause 48 of the County Assemblies Services Bill (Senate Bill No. 27 of 2014) and seek leave to sit again tomorrow.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to report progress that the Committee of the Whole has considered the National Assembly Amendments to Clause 48 of the County Assembly Services Bill (Senate Bill No.27 of 2014) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.
Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said report.
Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o, please, approach the Chair.
Hon. Senators, we will defer that Motion after consultation with the Mover.
Hon. Senators, we will defer Order Nos. 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23 and 24.
Hon. Senators, there being no other business on the Order Paper, the Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow, 2nd March, 2017, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 5.15 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate