Hon. Senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence in the Speaker’s Gallery this afternoon of vising staff from Nyamira County Assembly. The staff members are here on a five-day attachment programme at the Senate. I request each member of the delegation to stand when called out so that they may be acknowledged in the Senate tradition. 1. Mr. Evans Omwenga – Public Relations Officer 2. Ms. Janet Onchwanga – Public Relations Officer On behalf of the Senate and on my own behalf, I welcome them to the Senate and wish them well for the remainder of their stay. I thank you. VISITING DELEGATION FROM ST. JOSEPH GIRLS SECONDARY SCHOOL, TAITA TAVETA COUNTY
I wish to recognise the presence of students and teachers from St. Joseph Girls Secondary School from Taita Taveta County. They are sitted in the Public Gallery. In our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to Parliament, I extend a warm welcome to them. On behalf of the Senate and on my own behalf, I wish them a fruitful visit. I thank you.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join you this afternoon in welcoming the girls from Taita Taveta County that have visited the Senate. I would like to encourage them to not only preserve the facilities in their school but to preserve themselves as well. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Senators, kindly restrain yourselves to a maximum of one minute.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join you in recognising the presence of the officers from Nyamira County Assembly as well as the students from Taita Taveta County. It is good for the county assemblies to visit the ‘Upper House’ to know what is happening here. As we learnt last year, a number of counties were making trips to other countries to benchmark. Some county assemblies went as far as Israel which is a desert country to benchmark. I wonder what they were going to look for in those countries. It is good for such officers who are working in the public relations Department to advise the leadership of the assembly that they would rather visit a neighboring assembly to know how they are performing. I also recognise the presence of the little girls who have come all the way to see how we are doing. We were also young at one point and we were educated just like them. It is good for them to come and see how we are making laws for them so that they can work hard. I wish them well as they build Taita Taveta County and Kenya through their studies.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join you in receiving and congratulating the girls from Taita Taveta County for having come all the way to Nairobi to see what we do here in the Senate. I encourage them to learn more from here as well as the National Assembly if they have the time. I hope that one day, one of them will be seated here just like we are contributing to receive visiting students in future. Send greetings to the rest of the school.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join you in recognising the presence of the public relations officers from Nyamira County Assembly noting that their Senator has since become a presidential candidate. I thank your office for the steps that it has taken to make sure that the Senate is a learning ground for the counties to ensure that we teach them on how things are done. I hope that they will take greetings to Nyamira County. On behalf of the Kenya Women Parliamentarians Association (KEWOPA), I welcome the students from St. Joseph Secondary School to the Senate. I encourage them that the future can only get better. The Constitution that we have is very progressive in ensuring that women’s rights are entrenched. Today, the High Court ruled that the not more than two thirds gender rule must be enacted by Parliament within 60 days or Parliament will stand dissolved. We are therefore making steps and so I encourage the girls from Taita Taveta County that they will be seated where I am in a few years. It can only get better in the county assemblies. There are many opportunities for them and the sky is not even the limit. Welcome to the Senate.
Bw. Spika, nachukua fursa hii kuwakaribisha na kufurahia ugeni wao hasa wageni kutoka Kaunti ya Nyamira na wanafunzi kutoka Kaunti ya Taita Taveta. Jumba hili la kutunga sheria limewekwa wakfu na wengi wa wanafunzi The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Machage! These are girls in high school. How do you compare yourself to them?
Bw. Spika, nawapa motisha kwamba kesho waje hapa. Nawahimiza kwamba wanaposoma, wajue kwamba wana nafasi iliyo kamili na iliyowekwa wazi kama wenzao wengi. Wanahitaji tu kuwa miaka kumi na nane kufika hapa. Wasije wakatishwa na kuogopa.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join you in welcoming the two delegates from Nyamira County and the students from Taita Taveta County. The Senator for Nyamira is not in the House to welcome the delegation from Nyamira County because as you are aware, he is a presidential candidate. He is therefore very busy right now receiving delegations from various parts of the country and discussing strategies for his victory. I thank your office for laying facilities for the two visitors from Nyamira County---
Order, Sen. Obure! I am only aware of one Sen. Okongo who is the Senator for Nyamira County in the Senate of the Republic of Kenya. As far as I am concerned, there are no candidates to any seat. We only have aspirants who wish to be candidates.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you for that correction. I thank your office for making it possible for the delegation from Nyamira County to come and learn from the Senate. As you know, these are the officers who make it possible for Nyamira County to provide services to Wananchi. I therefore wish them success during the visit and hope that they will learn something from the Senate which will make it possible to deliver services in a more efficient way to the people of Nyamira County. I also take this opportunity to welcome the delegation of students from Taita Taveta County. I assure them that the current Constitution of the Republic of Kenya opens all doors for young ambitious people. I hope that they will set their goals high because there are opportunities for them to become professionals, leaders and anything that they want to be in this country. I urge them to work hard to achieve their ambitions.
Hon. Senators, let us start with the statements being sought.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.45(2)(b), I rise to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Education regarding the publication and distribution of books and other educational materials to public primary and secondary schools. In the statement, the Chairperson should:- (1) Explain the process of publication and distribution of books and other educational materials to public primary and secondary schools under the free basic education programme. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is a very important statement. Allow me to ride on it by speaking to the issue of the educational material called laptop or tablet. Could the Chairman further tell the House which institution is responsible for the distribution of the laptops that the Jubilee Government promised our children? He should also come with a written apology from the Government that is signed to the children who expected laptops in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 and missed out.
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you need to help me. The statement was on publication and distribution of books and other educational materials. Are laptops educational materials or equipment?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I heard Sen. (Prof.) Lesan very well. They fall under other educational materials. The Jubilee administration must be answerable to our children. We were not expecting them to use their money. They are using the tax payers’ money. Parents pay taxes.
Order, Senator! It was a simple clarification. You have discharged yourself honourably. Where is the Chairperson of the Committee on Education?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I endeavor to deliver that statement in three weeks’ time.
Order, Sen. Karaba! The standard practice has been in two weeks’ time.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is a laborious task.
Order, Sen. Karaba! You do not argue with the Chair. First, as the Chairperson of the Committee on Education you know better than anybody about efficiency, quality assurance and standards. Who knows that better than you?
I direct you issue the statement in two weeks’ time. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
I am obliged, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
We proceed with statements to be requested. Proceed, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo. STATUS OF CHEPARERIA TECHNICAL TRAINING COLLEGE
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.45(2)(b) to seek a statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Education. In the statement the Chairperson should clarify:- (a) What is the status of the new technical colleges initiated by the Government for the period 2013-2017? (b) What is the status of Chepareria Technical Training College in Chepareria Ward, Pokot South Constituency of West Pokot County? (c) Could the Chairperson confirm that the first phase of the Chepareria Technical Training College Complex which comprises of the classrooms, administration block and laboratories collapsed in February 2017? (d) Who is the contractor and the technical staff who were supervising the construction? What measures will be taken to complete the project? (e) What action will be taken against the contractor and the technical staff for negligence? (f) When will the project be restarted and completed?
What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Machage?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to ride on the first part of the question. Could the Chairperson tell us how many technical schools have so far been built and in which constituencies? Why are other constituencies having the technical schools? How much money has been used for so far?
Order, Sen. Wetangula! Sen. Wetangula is talking to the Chairperson through unorthodox ways but for some reason I heard you. Order, Sen. Wetangula! The fact that you sought intervention does not mean you are the only one who did so. Others were there before you.
Order, Sen. Wetangula! That is not the way we transact business. Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, your statement was directed to who?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it was directed to the Chairperson of the Committee on Education.
Proceed, Sen. Wetangula.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am vindicated. I thought Sen. Karaba was rising to respond. Allow me to --- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Sen. Wetangula! First, it is the Speaker who directs the Chairperson. When the statement was being sought, Sen. Karaba had already indicated his interest in the matter. You came after him.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thought he was exhibiting enthusiasm and exuberance into the matter.
Proceed, Sen. Wetangula.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, while I thank the distinguished Senator for West Pokot for asking this question, I would like the Chairperson of the Committee, when he brings the answer, to tell this House and the country whether the much publicized stories about building a technical institute in each and every constituency in the country is the usual campaign gimmick by Jubilee or a fact. If it is a fact, bring the budget line for each and every constituency in the country, the status of each and every technical institute, the levels of staffing, number of students where they are operational and the levels of bursary allocations by the Government to the students in those colleges.
What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a House of equity. Therefore, in all fairness, over and above what the two Senators have asked to supplement the question by Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, the Government should also tell us in those constituencies where we already have these institutions, where will their entitlement go? Specifically, I want you to speak to Ikolomani Constituency where I want to thank God; my Constituency Development Fund (CDF) Committee built enough of those institutions. Where will the money for Ikolomani go? Will they be given in terms of equipment? How will it be utilized?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, earlier on I had indicated that I could deliver that statement in one week’s but now due to complicity involved from the other side, two weeks would be enough.
It is so directed. The statement will be issued in two weeks’ time. Order, hon. Members! We now go to statements to be issued. Where is the Chairperson, Vice Chairperson or any Member of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations? There is none. We will get back to it. Let us move to statement (b). Where is the Chairperson or Vice Chairperson of the Sessional Committee on Implementation? Let us move to statement (c). Proceed, Chairperson of the Committee on Education? THE ONGOING STRIKE BY LECTURERS OF PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES
Mr. Speaker, Sir, please give your advice. The statement is overtaken by some recent events. So, do I continue giving the response? The issue was to do with the strike which was ongoing by then, but we made sure it was called off. I was with Sen. (Dr.) Zani when we were told to persuade the lecturers to go back to work.
What is your proposal, Sen. Karaba? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, my proposal is that we call it off and wait for another strike.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have heard the Chairperson of the Committee on Education, but it will be of great importance for us to know on record the details of their discussion when they attended the meeting with Sen. (Dr.) Zani and the lecturers. The country will be interested to know what the deal was because it was part of the question that was raised in that statement.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to agree with the House that the answer must come because we cannot allow a situation where we create a void. A question was raised in the House and the record must reflect that it was answered. We would also like to know, for posterity, how the Cabinet Secretary (CS), Dr. Matiangi, handled this. This is because he is a man that we donated from the Opposition and he seems to be the only one working. When he exits, we hope that the others---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. Wangari?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, can Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale clarify what he means when he says that they “donated” a CS to the Government? I know that every person who is in Government is employed. It does not matter whether they are in the opposition or not. They do not have a label on their head. Could he clarify what he meant by that word “donation”?
Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you have been challenged.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to gladly clarify what I meant by the word “donation.” Without mentioning names because I am constrained by Standing Orders, a senior public officer in the Jubilee Government was recently in Kisii, the greater Gusii Land and he said that in spite of Kisii people not having voted for them, he gave them jobs. It is true that the Kisii people are fiercely in the National Super Alliance (NASA). They are
. They never voted for Jubilee and they will not vote for it. Therefore, we donated him just like we donated Mr. Joseph Nkaissery from the fierce Maasai people who are again ndaani inside NASA. Those are our talents and we---
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! It might look interesting, but from what you are saying, there is no donation. If somebody is picked from an area that is considered of a particular political persuasion, it does not mean that each individual is of the same mindset. Just allow it to pass and make ask your clarification.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand guided, but may I inform the House that before Mr. Joseph Nkaissery resigned, he approached the co-principals of CORD, they held a crisis meeting, chaired by Baba and they allowed him to go. Surely, did they not donate unless the word “donation” has changed in its meaning and usage?
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. We can engage in more constructive matters. You cannot donate and still have a crisis meeting.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it was before. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Proceed on the substantive matter, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had concluded my substantive matter. It is already on record. He attempted to interrupt at the tail end.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. Obure?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has just said, are we going to allow misconceptions to go on record? This is a House of records. He has just said that Gusii was an opposition zone even in 2013 and that it is the same case in 2017. I want to put it on record that in 2013, out of nine Members of Parliament elected in the National Assembly, six of them were from the Jubilee leaning and only three were elected from the opposition. Is it right for Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to come here and give us false information and give the wrong impression to this Republic? I also want to inform him that even in 2017, we expect more support for Jubilee from Kisii.
Order, Members! Sen. Obure, I thought you were going to bring the point even closer to the Senate. I thought you would mention that even of the two Senators, they seem to have different orientations, including a presidential ambition that could be counter.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did not want to visit this, but is it in order for my great friend, Sen. Obure, who I have tremendous respect for, to say what he has said, when even where he is sitting betrays what he has said. He is sitting on the opposition side. The other Senator from Gusii land is sitting on the opposition side. In the last elections, the CORD coalition got 73 per cent of the presidential vote and the other 17 per cent was shared between Jubilee, Mudavadi, Martha Karua, Mwalimu Dida, Peter Kenneth and all the others who were running for election. Is the distinguished Senator in order to deny the obvious? In law, we call it the constructive. There is a constructive donation of Sen. Obure to Jubilee right now.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I had almost also decided to let it go, but I thank Sen. Obure for having brought it up. This being a House of records, we need to tidy up our records. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale being one of the longest serving Members of this House knows that you cannot start addressing this House in one language then switch to another language. Our Standing Orders are very clear. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale started to address the House then he went on and said that the Kisii Community is ndani kabisa . Then he talked of the Maasai and said wako ndani . Could he elaborate or find him out of order for mixing the languages? How can he explain to this House how he measures the ndani of a community? There is no
for you to declare that anyone is ndani. Can you have that expunged from the record?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thought of contributing to that on a point of order. I frankly think it is a waste of very valuable time of the Senate if you ask me, except for the statement made by Sen. Obure that this should be expunged from the record. Although it may seem cursory, certainly that is not important in a House of records like ours. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order Members, the substantive matter before us was whether this statement needs to be made by the Chair and the operational word for him was “ongoing.” According to him, it is no longer ongoing but gone. We do not have the benefit from the Member who sought the statement. To me and that is what most Members have stated, there is a concept called public interest. Definitely, a strike by lecturers of public universities is something of immense public interest. By even describing how you ended it, you might inform the future so that you should not expect another strike to occur. So, depending on the availability of the Member, this Statement must remain on the Order Paper. The matter that arose was the matter raised by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale in trying to support the position I had already taken. He then made some statements that have been challenged by Sen. Obure. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is well versed with our Standing Orders, that a Member is responsible for the accuracy of the statements. In fact, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale had made all of us believe that that particular region was 100 per cent NASA. Obviously, he has been contradicted by his own Minority Leader. He has said they only got 73 per cent of the presidential vote and that agrees with what Sen. Obure was challenging. He used other considerations like Members of the National Assembly. To me, the point Sen. Obure was challenging was to say that each and every individual in a particular area in its entirety belongs to a particular political sheath. The point made by Sen. Obure in challenging that has been confirmed by the Senate Minority Leader who gave even more specific facts, that there was another percentage out of 100 minus 73. That leaves you with 27 per cent. So, you could not say which portion that donation came from. That matter is very clear. The next matter is the one of mixing the two languages and Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is the man with the burden. Standing Orders are also clear. When you start with one language, you should continue with it. It is not allowed for you to mix. My direction is that first, you were not fully accurate in the assertions you made about donations of a particular source and the greater Gusii area. Secondly, you mixed the two languages. In trying to challenge you in mixing the two languages, Sen. Wamatangi also went ahead to challenge you on a language that he has already--- So, you do not need to deal with that from Sen. Wamatangi. If my first finding is that it is not acceptable, then you do not respond to it. Deal with the Standing Orders issues.
Point of order!
This is not a debate. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, indeed I stand guided and I agree with you. However, you, Sen. Wetangula, Sen. Kembi-Gitura and I were in the 2002 to 2007 The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! I agree that over time, some words evolve and become acceptable like the Kiswahili word safari. I have no recollection and I do not wish to challenge you but I can imagine that Speaker Kaparo decided to accept the word “unbwogable” because it was used in a song that was sung in English. For you to purport that ndani transits to an English word in a country where both languages are official constitutionally is taking imagination too far. Standing Order No.81(2) applies to you.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, in accordance with precedent and usage in many parliaments of comparable jurisdictions, I agree with you that you cannot use English and Kiswahili interchangeably. That is clear in the Standing Orders but in a speech, a Member can bring in words in a different language as matter of quote or emphasis without violating the language barrier. So, you also need to give us direction that if I am making a contribution and I quote that somebody said huyumtu ni mjinga, then I continue with my speech, that quote is not a violation of the Standing Orders. I would like the Chair to make it clear so that we do not get caught up in some of the uncalled for points of order when we are contributing if we make such quotations.
Sen. Wetangula, you are absolutely right and that is not an issue. You might think so but we heard Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and he never quoted. You are allowed to quote but there was no quote.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Standing Order you are mentioning states that if a Senator starts his speech--- Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale started his speech in English and only put in one Kiswahili word. According to me, that does not affect Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.
Order Senator! I am afraid I have to be a bit more candid because there was no speech in the first place. The import of that is what we are applying. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale did even worse because he introduced it interchangeably by repeating that particular word several times. As the Deputy Speaker has said, this is a small matter. Sen. Dr. Khalwale you are a man of immense contributions. Do not allow small things to distract us. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker,Sir, you are now very clear. I, therefore, wish to withdraw the use of the word that the “Abagusii are Ndaani ” and replace it with the word they are completely and a 100 per cent inside the National Super Alliance (NASA) movement in Kenya.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it Sen. Okong’o?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think Sen. Dr. Khalwale has made it worse with his last remarks. Gusiiland now has a new kid on the block; a Presidential candidate by the name Sen. Mong’are. So, Jubilee and this side I sit must be wary of that. The Gusii people are not completely either in NASA which is an amorphous body or Jubilee. I disagree with him unless he brings statistics. He would rather go with the earlier warning in the Standing Orders.
Order, Members. We must make progress. Sen. Omar.
On a point of order Mr. Speaker, Sir. I wanted to interrogate whether Sen. Okong’o is in order to call the NASA coalition an amorphous body whereas all the four parties signed to that agreement and deposited the same instrument on that very day with the Registrar of Political Parties in accordance with the law. I was seated there with a checklist ticking: “ iko, iko .” How can he come and derogate our instrument that is recognized by law and a coalition recognised by law? Can you tell him to apologise to the NASA fraternity, withdraw and then I will re-assert where the Gusii people lie? They are actually in NASA.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the distinguished Senator for Nyamira is a Member of my party. He is in this House courtesy of the Ford Kenya party and CORD. Never mind where he is headed. As long as his term runs up to the end, legally he is a Member of my party. NASA is acknowledged as a registered instrument of a coalition between Ford Kenya, Orange Democratic Movement (ODM), Wiper Democratic Movement and Amani National Congress. This is recognized in law and the Constitution. I find it derogatory and unacceptable. I would urge the Chair to order the distinguished Senator to withdraw and apologise for calling the legal organization an amorphous body. It is neither amorphous nor a body.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think I misused the word amorphous; thus, I withdraw it. Secondly, I have a point of information to my former party leader. Currently, I ceased to be a Member of Ford Kenya. I am now the party leader of the National Liberal Party of Kenya (NLPK). With this statement, I speak to this with all the attendant consequences.
Order Members. Let not one issue lead to another. Even if it is serious, not all serious issues will be completed in this afternoon Session. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to issue a Statement regarding preparedness for the planting season and supply of fertilizer and other farm inputs to farmers. The Government is taking measures to ensure adequate supply of seeds and fertilizers to farmers throughout the country. The Ministry of Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries has put in place measures to ensure adequate seed and fertilizer supply and distribution to farmers. Seed has the greatest potential to increase farm productivity and enhance food security compared to other agricultural inputs. In order to ensure constant supply of seed for crop production, Kenya Seed Company adopted irrigated seed production due to changing weather patterns by installing its own pivot irrigation system and utilising the National Irrigation Board infrastructure. Over 30,000 acres are put under irrigated seed production annually, which is expected to double by 2018. Currently, the seed companies in the country have 48,000 metric tonnes of maize seed against an annual demand of 35,000 metric tonnes which is adequate for farmers to plant during the short rains of 2016 and the long rains of 2017. Fertilizer distribution to counties is mainly through the elaborate NCPB depot network and some farmers’ cooperative societies. In areas where depots are far from farmers, NCPB normally opens satellite selling points at strategic points. Mr. Speaker, Sir, fertilizer allocation to various counties is based on intensity of agricultural activities, county uptake trends and seasonality of the time of distribution.
The Ministry of Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries has put in place measures to ensure adequate seed supply and distribution to farmers. This include supply of traditional high value seeds and also seeds like sorghum, millet, beans, green grams, pigeon peas and so forth. This year, the programme plans to distribute 597 metric tonnes of assorted drought tolerant seeds to 25 counties in different phases of drought to reach 91sub-counties targeting over 100,000 small-scale farmers in ASAL areas. Approximately 86,675 acres is expected to be planted for food and nutrition security at a cost of Kshs143,222,320 which include seed delivery to the counties and farmers capacity building. The counties have been advised to distribute the seed in areas with irrigation facilities for better impact. The Ministry is also undertaking sensitization of farmers on the La nina phenomenon and appropriate actions spearheaded by counties. Thank you.
What is it, Chair?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also had another Statement. Do we handle the first one or I issue both?
Are they related or different?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, slightly different.
So, how do you combine?
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to appreciate the response that has been given by the Chairperson, Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries Committee. You will note the Statement that I sought was delivered on 15th November, 2016. The Ministry of Agriculture responded the next day,16th November, 2016. Someone may read two things; either they did not want to understand my questions clearly to the extent that they just went to the archives to give us this template answer or they were tired because we have been asking many questions relating to fertilizer supply in the country. However, I want to ask these clarifications as shown here. In page 2, there is a an interesting statement quoted here at the last bullet:- “The fertilizer types procured depend on soil requirements and crops grown in various regions of the country. This is well guided by the soil suitability evaluation for maize production in Kenya in collaboration with the report of the Kenya Agricultural and Livestock Research Organization released in 2014.” The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order! You are not interrogating the entire document.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is where the---
You are required to seek clarifications of which you have done enough.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, one other clarification---
The last one.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are very many. There is a lot of bias in the distribution of fertilizer. On one hand, the Government says the sale of maize is liberalized and therefore you can sell to anybody at the farm. However, when you go to buy fertilizer, you are asked to sell your maize cheaply to the National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB). So, farmers do not know what to do. On one hand, you are told to sell to the highest buyer and on the other hand, you are told there is no fertilizer. Therefore, there is chaos in the farms. Lastly---
Order, Senator. That was the last one. You have clarified the last one.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this document is---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I request you to give me only one more clarification.
Order! I had already given you one last time. I am very clear when it means the last one. It cannot be last but one. Proceed, Sen. Karaba.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Yesterday I reminded you that the issue of fertilizer either in supply or purchase is important to Kenya and more so to the farmers. Is the Ministry of Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries serious to tell us that they cannot plan ahead for farmers if they are importing fertilizer which is not perishable? They can buy fertilizer in bulk so that on the onset of the rains, the farmers will have adequate supply to use for planting instead of subjecting farmers to planting using fertilizers for top dressing. Why can they not supply fertilizer to the farmers prior to the planting time?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Chairperson also happens to be the distinguished Senator for Trans Nzoia which produces one third of the maize cereal in this country. Could the Chairperson tell the House and the country what exactly is the policy on farm subsidies, particularly on the issue of fertilizer? As the Senator for Mwea has said, the fertilizer always arrives --- The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
It is Kirinyaga, not Mwea.
I am sorry. Mwea is in Kirinyaga, anyway. Fertilizer always arrives ---
Order, Sen. Wetangula! Surely, Mwea and Kirinyaga are two different things.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is the distinguished Senator for Kirinyaga County, Mwalimu Karaba. The fertilizer always arrives very late. The shelf life of fertilizer is four or five years and the Government policy is to move away from rain fed agriculture in many places to irrigated agriculture. This means that farmers can plant anytime throughout the year. Could the Chairperson tell the House whether the Government will constantly maintain sufficient stocks in the National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB) and other designated silos, fertilizer not only for cereal farmers, namely maize but for rice, wheat, tea, coffee and all other agricultural crops, including farmers who grow hay? They also need fertilizer so that the subsidy for farming is not limited to maize and not used every other year as a political tool to hoodwink farmers to support this or that kind of political thinking.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, clarification is sought on the issue of the testing of soils and recommendation of appropriate fertilizer. It is true that this report says that most of the soils in our country are now acidic arising from use of certain types of fertilizer. It is high time that changes are made to use non-acidifying fertilizer. However, what we are getting from farmers is that a switch to these other fertilizer does not meet the production levels that they expect. Therefore, as a Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries, we are looking at this. We recommend that further testing be done, not only on soil but also on productivity of the fertilizer procured. Indeed, there is a complaint. Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo is a farmer in my county. He experienced reduced productivity after changing the fertilizer type. Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the issue of early procurement of fertilizer, my Committee is seized of this matter. I sought discussions with the relevant Ministry to impress upon them to ensure that fertilizer is procured in good time and in adequate quantities. There has been some improvement. For instance, this planting season which started in February, some fertilizer was procured but in my county, there seems to have been inadequate supply. It may have come in good time but the quantity is not adequate. It comes in piecemeal but our Committee is taking this seriously.
Order, you do not direct the Chair. I have already directed you. When do you want to respond to the other one?
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Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Chairperson of the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries be bold enough and tell this country that no research has been done on the soils of this country in terms of acceptability of certain fertilizer? If there is any research that has been done, let him give us the website address where we can refer to different soil structures and the recommended fertilizers.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I heard him right, the issue of fertilizer and farmers at this moment is very crucial. There is no fertilizer in the depots. There is what is called 23:23:23. I do not know where it will be used and on which soil. Maize and food production will be zero. What I have heard is not correct. Could he tell us when farmers will get the right fertilizer?
We need to conclude this. Better be brief Sen. Karaba.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Chairperson of the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries is not here. I do not know who we are addressing our questions to.
Order, hon. Members! You have confirmed the difference between being present and absent at the same time. If you are present in this Chamber and following the proceedings, the Chairperson was going for another engagement. He delegated to an able Member of his Committee known as Sen. Kajwang who is here. If I could hear it from this side, why can you not hear the same? Let us have Sen. M. Kajwang on behalf of the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is the Kenya Agriculture and Livestock Research Organisation (KALRO) that undertakes research on various issues in the agricultural sector. If it suits the Senator who requested for reference on research on soil samples, the Committee could retreat and get these references from KALRO.
Although the Chair does not intervene, I am a bit constrained. Sen. (Dr.) Machage, I used to work for that particular organization as a research scientist. There is a whole centre called National Agricultural Research Centre just around the roundabout of James Gichuru Road and Waiyaki Way. It is a specialty centre in soil fertility studies. That is enough for now. Those were many years ago. What Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo was disputing was the report of 2014. I think that is a valid one in terms of the advice he was given on which fertilizer to apply. From his practical experience, the yield was different. That is something you need to retreat and confirm, Chairman. That should be the end of question time.
I direct that the Statement sought by Sen. Khaniri be deferred to Tuesday next week. The same applies to the statements sought by Sen. Sang and Sen. (Dr.) Zani. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Statement that I had sought had to do with the security situation in Baringo. Matters to do with security must be given preference and first priority because we are talking about the lives of Kenyans. I remember in the old Constitution when we were in Parliament, this would come under Questions by Private Notice and they were to be answered within 48 hours. I want to plead with you that this Statement be delivered tomorrow if possible. This is because the physical Statement signed by the Cabinet Secretary, Mr. Joseph Nkaissery is there. We should settle this matter once and for all.
On a point of order Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. Wetangula?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on this matter of security in Baringo, even as we wait for the Statement and knowing what is going on there---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am addressing the Chair---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am seeking you to take an intervention.
Order, Sen. Wetangula. There is no matter before us. The issue before us is when the Statement will be issued and I want to give direction.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me speak to that.
Order, Senator. Assume your seat. Order, Members. It cannot be that we want to create a debate on every mundane matter.
Order, Senator. It is not my responsibility to call the Cabinet Secretaries. The Statement is ready. I want to direct as pleaded by the Senator who sought the Statement and you, Sen. Wetangula, being a Member of that Committee, you should occasion your The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Can you now hear me?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was on the floor.
Yes, Sen. Wetangula, you were on the floor. You have a balance of 13 minutes.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was advised that I had 13 minutes. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Yesterday, I was offering my critique of the Speech by the President, described as policy and I said that I saw no policy in it. I had talked about several issues that were lacking. I will go to the point where I left, which is on public debt. The President, in a very casual manner, said that the public debt in the country was not unmanageable. Everybody knows that this country is suffering under the weight of public debt. Everybody knows that the debt has ballooned from Kshs875 billion left by the Grand Coalition Government of Kibaki and Raila to Kshs3.8 trillion under the watch of the Jubilee Administration. They have recklessly borrowed money to start grandiose projects with the sole purpose of kickbacks and bribes that they are collecting mainly from Chinese contractors. Until and unless we manage our public debt, this romantic talk of our economy growing--- I even heard the President say that we are doing better economically than America and South Africa. It is good to dream, but such wild dreams are not helpful, especially when they are coming from a Head of State. There is no policy in here on the management of debt.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Machage?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I usually appreciate the Senate Minority Leader’s speeches because they have information and they stimulate thinking. This happens when he especially enlightens us that the contracts going on now are full of kickbacks and bribes from Chinese contractors. I would be more enlightened if he can go further and give us more information on these kickbacks and bribes. I need substantiation.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I go on to do so, I want to plead with the Chair. Yesterday, I was so rudely interrupted by some excited Senators to the extent that all my time was consumed by points of order. I want you to protect me to push my point. To answer Sen. (Dr.) Machage, the distinguished Senator for Migori County, he was a Minister in the Kibaki Government and he knows that the Standard Gauge Railway (SGR) was costed and awarded as a contract at Kshs200 billion to the China Road and Bridge Company. When the Jubilee Government came in, they suspended the contract, re-awarded it after re-costing and inflated it from Kshs200 billion to Kshs358 billion. If that does not smack of corruption and kickbacks, then I do not know what it means. Right now, the Cabinet Secretary for Water and Irrigation is embroiled in an endless and protracted argument with his Permanent Secretary on an award of a huge contract. The only inference one can draw is that they are fighting over “eating”. There are many others and we do not want to waste time going into all those things.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
What is it, Sen. Kembi-Gitura? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
I do not believe that discussing or debating the Presidential Address is about attacking people who are not in this House and cannot give answers. Mr. Speaker, Sir, if we allow that; where people can say what they want, then we will have anarchy in this House, which is not what we want. The reason we have Standing Orders and particularly Standing Order No.94 is so that Senators can take responsibility for the statements that they make. However, when you make general statements about a nation or a presidential address and you are not willing to clarify anything, then something is very wrong. Mr. Speaker, Sir, because we are a House of record, let me bring it to the attention of the House that yesterday a ruling was made by the Speaker who was in the Chair. He said that Sen. Wetangula should make certain clarifications before he resumes with the debate this afternoon and I have not seen that clarification. Instead, what I am seeing are further generalised statements about bribery and corruption against people who are not in the House to defend themselves. This is totally against the rules of the House. I think we need to get a direction from you regarding this issue because we cannot have our House degenerate into a place where we will be making statements and when substantiations are ordered by the Chair, none are forthcoming. Instead, we get more and more generalised statements. We need to get a clarification on this issue.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Deputy Speaker under the guise of a point of order has just pursued an argument. Mr. Speaker, Sir, you have been in this House even longer than the Deputy Speaker. We used to be told as soon as we entered Parliament that when the President has made his speech and it is open for debate, you are open to debate anything under the sun within the rules. Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is fallacious to expect that we stand here to go through the paragraphs of the President’s speech and praise it. We are critiquing the speech of the President about the State of the Nation Address. The President in his own wisdom mentioned corruption.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is not the question of the length of time a person has been in this House. The distinguished Senator may have been in the House longer than I have been but we are in the Senate at the same time. Rules of the House are in a book called the Standing Orders and even a first-timer can read and follow them. I understand what a presidential address is. It is on the State of the Nation. I know it can be critiqued and that is okay. The point I am making is that for instance when an order is made that a clarification or substantiation has to be made because, maybe, the Senator went beyond the limits of what should be done when we debate the Presidential Address, then that has to be obeyed. It does not matter how long I have been in this House but I remember yesterday an order was made that a substantiation has to be made on a statement that was made by Sen. Wetangula. Instead of getting that substantiation, I see attacks on people who are not in this House and have no chance of defending themselves. These are the basic rules of this House. All I am asking is that we follow our own rules so that when a Senator is ordered to substantiate, before they can stand on their feet, they must start by doing what is correct. In law, we used to call it purging. In this case, Sen. Wetangula must The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order Members, Sen. Kembi-Gitura is referring to yesterday’s altercation and the way you were challenged to substantiate. Proceed on that one.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Speaker of the day, the distinguished Senator for Kajiado, told me to substantiate today. He never said that I would have to substantiate before I continue with my debate and I will substantiate before I finish. The point was very simple. I said that the President said that the police population ratio in Kenya is now higher than the United Nations (UN) recommended standard. I said I had consulted with the police and a senior police officer told me that that statement was incorrect. I do not even know what I am supposed to substantiate but I am coming to that and I will explain it, if you allow me to go on. There was no caveat that I must start with that before I continue my speech.
Proceed, but you will have to conclude with it.
Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir and I want you to protect me from the Deputy Speaker.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is a matter of argument and I think it is also a matter of law. With greatest respect, I do not think that the Senator can say he is going to substantiate at the end. Standing Order No.94 requires that substantiation has to be done now so that if you are not satisfied or if he does not substantiate or withdraw and apologise, then the only recourse is to throw out the Senator. This is mandatory and there is no window for change. So, it has to be, now, instantly, before he can proceed with the debate. Otherwise, with the greatest respect, it will make nonsense of Standing Order No.94. What happens supposing he says other things that require substantiation and aggravate the situation? So, it has to be now before he proceeds. Because he is a lawyer, I am sure he understands that very well. Like he said, he has been in the House much longer than I have.
Order, Sen. Kembi-Gitura and Sen. Wetangula, you are both lawyers. I can confirm that your legal minds and training may be helpful on many matters but not on this particular case. Standing Order No. 94(2) states that:- “If a Senator has sufficient reason to convince the Speaker that the Senator is unable to substantiate the allegations instantly, the Speaker shall require that such Senator substantiates the allegations not later than the next sitting day, failure to which the Senator shall be deemed to be disorderly within the meaning of Standing Order 110 (Disorderly conduct) unless the Senator withdraws the allegations and gives a suitable apology, if the Speaker so requires.” Instantly should have been yesterday but for some reason, he convinced the Speaker that he will substantiate today. Sen. Kembi-Gitura, we have not exhausted the next sitting day which is today. That is why I have allowed him. Already he has less than five minutes to proceed. So we will deal with it because it is not the end of the day.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had 13 minutes but the distinguished Deputy Speaker has consumed eight of them. I plead for The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Point of order!
You cannot protest what you did not hear.
What is it, Sen. Kembi-Gitura?
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I followed the debate yesterday. I recall that Sen. Wamatangi, the distinguished Senator for Kiambu, told the distinguished Senator for Bungoma that he is the Senate Minority Leader of the House but not the leader of the Opposition. Therefore, respect must be accorded by the leadership to everybody in this House. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not think it is right for a Senator to use derogatory terms against another Senator because that is an abuse of the privilege of the position that the person holds in this House. The Senate Minority Leader is a very senior position in this House and we must be led from the front. The Senate Minority Leader should not use that position to use derogatory language against other Senators like it happened yesterday and it is happening now. This should not be allowed because this is a House of record and we must accord respect to each other regardless of where we sit in the House. That respect is expected more from the leadership because that is what leadership entails. I do not expect derogatory language to be used and no sanction levied because it is not right.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Senator for Murang’a rarely sits in this House for debate and I can only infer that he is doing so today to interrupt my contribution. Many of us sit here for hours as we seek to contribute to improve the lot of our nation.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to proceed. I do not want an altercation with my distinguished learned senior, his misconduct on this matter notwithstanding.
I think Mr. Speaker, Sir, you must protect us.
Order Members. This is the same issue that arose yesterday and I am afraid, Sen. Wetangula, you are just repeating and inviting more trouble to yourself. I was just going through the HANSARD which is why I did not want to intervene immediately. I have just confirmed that the Temporary Speaker asked you to either ask for more time so that you can substantiate or withdraw and apologise. You said: “If you want the exact numbers, I will bring them tomorrow.” The HANSARD is quoting Sen. Wetangula. The Temporary Speaker said: “So tomorrow at 2:30 p.m. I am going to give you some more time so that tomorrow you can bring the figures.” You said: “It is so easy and I will shame this Kiambu man tomorrow.” The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the reason I said I would do so at the end is because I am waiting for a document that will come to me before I finish. However, if that is the wish of the Chair, I will say the following: I have no doubt in my mind that the police-population ratio in Kenya is far much less than the United Nations (UN) recommended standards. Had we met that ratio, we would not be having the security challenges we are having in Baringo, Turkana, West Pokot and everywhere else. Be that as it may---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, if the House wants me to bring the exact figures, I will withdraw now but give a condition that next week, I will still bring those figures and table them on the Floor. I withdraw, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Order! I am afraid I have to enforce the Standing Orders. You had an opportunity to withdraw your remarks yesterday. You sought for more time and it was granted.
But I have withdrawn, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
You cannot withdraw and say you are still coming back with it. You cannot withdraw and start with a preface on what you think is the correct position.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I withdraw and---
Order Senator. Let me explain. Resume your seat. This House gives you a lot of latitude to express yourself but when you are challenged, it becomes a different ballgame. The challenge was there yesterday. You were given up to the next day which is today. So, you cannot come back now and say you want another day. You either have the information or you do not have it. So withdraw and apologise without qualifying.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I said---
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Are you ceding the balance of your time to Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?
No, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You normally readily give points of order---
Order! Yes, but you cannot just determine that I am going to give.
You have serially given points of order to Sen. Kembi-Gitura until I was unable to speak, which I take very unkindly. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Sen. Wetangula. The reason I gave points of order to Sen. Kembi-Gitura was because you were mentioning him. I have always said in this House that if you do not mention a name, I have no problem. I have not refused to give to Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. How did you know if I was going to grant him or not? Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Could you clarify exactly what we are doing? When Sen. Wetangula has up to the end of today to respond to the challenge, is it a must that he should do it within the time allocated for debate? Given that he has indicated that he is waiting for a document which probably has the information or facts and figures. The UN figure is one policeman guarding at least 400 people. In the county of Kakamega of 2 million people at that rate, it means we have five thousand police officers. They are not there. I request that you allow - as a matter of procedure - the Senate Leader of Minority to finish his contribution and before the end of today, he must be compelled to substantiate his allegations.
Order, Members. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I said you were challenged to substantiate instantly. I do not know whether we read the same English. Then you are given latitude that if you cannot do it, you have up to the next day which is why I was indulging the Leader of Minority; that he can do as he requested at the end of his submission. However, having looked at the HANSARD, he was actually given up to 2:30 p.m. of the next day which is today. The time now is 4:20 p.m. I was, therefore, working on those parameters. They have proudly stated that they are lawyers whose understanding of English is usually above average. Proceed Sen. Wetangula.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg for additional three minutes so that I can go to four other things. The President said that the country has recorded 1,950---
Order Senator. On the issue of withdrawing and apologising---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did.
Order. I said it was qualified. You were not categorical.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I tender my apology but I am not withdrawing that. I will definitely bring those figures to prove my assertion at a later stage. I have seen questions of security and I will use them to bring my matters to the Floor. I am sure the Chair is now satisfied. You come from a security challenged county. If these policemen were there, you would be seeing them.
Order, Senator. I have no problem with your line of reasoning but my problem is that you have been challenged and you are unable to substantiate; which is the most honourable thing to do, especially for a senior Member of the House like you, with due respect. No additions, preface, forward and no postscript. I withdraw and apologise. Period. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I withdraw all the prefaces to the withdrawal and apology. The President said---
Order, Senator. You do not play language with me. The withdrawal was on the issue of yesterday.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, which I have done. I withdrew and apologized.
Order, Senator. Order! You are skating to the limit. I will go by the rules of this book. Order, Senator! Failure to which the Senator shall be deemed under Standing Order No.94 (2) to be disorderly within the meaning of Standing Order No.110 – Disorderly Conduct. “Unless the Senator withdraws the allegations and gives a suitable apology if the Speaker so requires.” I have determined you have not given a suitable apology. So, give it but before you do so, I invite you to look at Standing Order No.110 – Disorderly Conduct.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I withdraw and apologise. I want to say this; I will not be intimidated by any threats to throw me out. I have withdrawn and apologised. I have the right to be here; I am an opposition leader. I am not here to praise the Jubilee Government or the President of Jubilee. I am not here to heap praises on wrong things. I want to encourage my brothers---
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of order. It is not all that difficult to get that information. We know that the population of Kenya is 42 million and is now one police for 380 citizens. If you divide, it comes to 105,000. The only issue that has to be determined now is whether the total established police force amounts to 105,000. So, that information on the total number of police force is easily obtainable. Tomorrow, you can undertake to supply that information. It is not all that difficult.
You are not being helpful to your leader or even to the rest of us. I am satisfied that he has apologised and withdrawn. I also want to make it very clear, Sen. Wetangula. Nobody is asking you to heap praises on anybody; I am just employing Standing Orders.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, when the Chair starts waving the expulsion clause because of what I am saying, it is not right.
Order, Senator! I have this book before me, I read to you. You can read it for yourself. If I do not use it, you will tell me I am doing my own things. So, to make reference to it becomes an issue. Your time is up, Senator.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have been so interrupted that I have not made my point. I beg for five minutes to make two or three points.
Order, Senator! Your time is up.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this House has become a dictatorship.
Order, Sen. Wetangula! The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, and this appears to be connivance between the Speaker and his deputy.
Order, Sen. Wetangula!
It is not right---
Order, Sen. Wetangula! Assume your seat. Let us rest that matter, Sen. Kembi-Gitura. Order, Members! We shall maintain decorum in this House.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of order. The most important thing in this House is that we must, as you correctly say, maintain decorum. When the Leader of Minority, on HANSARD, says that, “there is dictatorship in the Senate and this is connivance between the Speaker and his deputy.” That is on record. Are you going to allow it to go on record; that you and I are conniving to create dictatorship in the House, a Senator refers to another one and specifically to myself as intolerant just because I raised a point of order? Are you going to allow that to go on record? How is it that the Leader of the Minority can be allowed to get away with so much? How is it that he can stand up in the Senate of the Republic of Kenya and refer to you and your deputy as people perpetuating dictatorship in the Senate and you allow it to go on record? I do not think so. With the greatest respect, I do not think so. This amounts to gross misconduct under Standing Order No.110. This calls for sanctions. I am the Deputy Speaker of this House; humbly and very privileged to be the Deputy Speaker of this House and elected by Members of this House. If following the rules that are in the Standing Orders is dictatorship because somebody is not getting what they want; because somebody has that attitude about being entitled so they can use the House to hurl insults at other Senators? I do not think so. Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is such a serious issue; you, as a Speaker, duly elected and your deputy, duly elected, are said to perpetuate dictatorship in the House because somebody does not want to be challenged in what they say. I did not at any point ask anybody to praise the Speech of the President. We appreciate. I have also been in this House and discussed presidential addresses since I was in the Ninth Parliament. It does not give and should not give anybody a sense of entitlement because they claim to have been here longer than others or because they are the Leaders of Minority. These are positions we hold in trust and these are positions we need to give respect to. It cannot be possible that a Leader of Minority would use that position to use derogatory language against other people and expect to get away with it. It is not and cannot be allowed. Where has there been transgression in interpreting the Standing Orders in saying that at Standing Order No. 94 requires apology, substantiation? If it does not forth come, then a withdrawal and apology. We always do it in the House. Is it dictatorship? Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. Wako has been very reasonable; it is a question of arithmetic. Go and bring that arithmetic and show the House that what the President said The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Members! Indeed, I am equally aggrieved when I am accused of a conspiracy, having read the Standing Orders that all Members can read. I am used to that from the Leader of Minority. That is why it does to bother me, but not everybody is the Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, we, as elected Members of this House, have a mandate to raise and debate issues. Any time some of us, especially Members of the Opposition stand here and touch on the wrongdoing of the Government, we are silenced once and for all, to an extent that some of us have withdrawn completely; even attempting to paint a bad picture about the Government in case one wants to contribute is hindered. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I kindly ask you to consider this. Just look at this House; interest is being lost by Members because instead of being allowed to do what we are supposed to do, we are curtailed and contained. We cannot stretch beyond certain points. Give us room. I ask the leadership and your office just to bear and give us room to debate issues – even if we are touching on the Government, we are Members of the Opposition. We are supposed to criticize to the last level of criticism. If we do not do so, we will not be doing our work. Kindly, give us room to debate. Allow us to criticize and for that matter attack the Government from all corners so that we can apply checks and balances as Members of the Opposition.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Senator for Murang’a is inviting you to find that the Senate Minority Leader was grossly out of order. Before you do that, because obviously, the statement he made touched not only on Sen. Kembi-Gitura but also on you, let us cool the emotions first. What was the genesis? In his contribution, he could not continue because the Senator for Murang’a challenged him that he was attacking people who cannot defend themselves here. The two people in question were the President and his Cabinet Secretaries who the Minority Leader mentioned. Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a Motion like this, the President has invited us to talk about him. Under Article 153 of the Constitution, when the President has allowed us to talk about him and the performance of his Government, it includes the Cabinet Secretaries. Do you want us to talk about them at the National Super Alliance (NASA) public rallies, funerals and weddings? We are supposed to do it here! I, therefore, urge you to bend all the way backwards and find that Sen. Wetangula is within his domain. He is entitled to 60 minutes because he is not the Deputy Speaker. Deputy Speaker, if your position was unique like that of Sen. Wetangula, you would also be enjoying 60 minutes. When you speak in this House, you do not speak like the Deputy Speaker. You speak like the Senator for Murang’a. The only time you enjoy that position is when you are on that Chair but unfortunately you cannot debate when you are on it. So, however much you are offended, the Senator for Bungoma was defending his 60 minutes. You are looking for something which you do not have. You have only the same time like the Senator for Kakamega. It is part of the fact of being the Deputy Speaker. Therefore, let us shed off emotions. President Uhuru has not sent you here to defend him, neither has he asked you to defend his Cabinet Secretaries. He came here with a speech for which he has been taken Kenyans for a ride. It is up to us to debunk the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I urge you to stick to the rules of the House. This is a House of rules and order. No one can intimidate you to look back. It is unfortunate because this afternoon we have not carried ourselves in a deserving manner, especially my friend whom I respect very much. The Minority Leader should have carried himself in a better manner – he calls somebody else that “man from Gatundu.” It is not acceptable because he is the President of Kenya. We all need to respect him. Therefore, what has transpired is not acceptable. I ask you to stick to the rules because this is a House of rules.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. First, I congratulate Sen. Wetangula for withdrawing and apologizing, albeit after a long coercion. That was “statesmanly”. At the same time, I remind the Minority Leader to look at Standing Order No.105 and 110 (1)(i) very closely. The Minority Leader is one of the greatest leaders we have had in this country in terms of material and articulation of debate in this House. However, when Standing Order No.105 is ignored, then the Speaker is in problems on how to handle him. Mr. Speaker, Sir, would I be in order to request that you order Sen. Wetangula to clearly read and understand Standing Order No.105?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Sen. Kittony has just uttered some words and fled the Chamber. You and the Deputy Speaker are my witnesses. I have never made reference to the President on this Floor in a derogatory manner. I always say, President Uhuru or the President of Kenya, and then I proceed to criticize what he has done. I have never referred to the President, and I will never, as “the man from Gatundu”. I do not know where she got it from. Yesterday, as a matter of light moment in the House, I made reference to my friend, Sen. Wamatangi, as the man from Kiambu; and then without anybody prompting me, I withdrew it. Mr. Speaker, Sir, however, debate is not gloom. You may recall that in the House of Commons in the 1500 A.D. or 1600 A.D. the king of England ordered five Members of Parliament (MPs) to be arrested. Those MPs had been challenging the King anywhere and everywhere, insulting him; and then the police arrived at the House of Commons and went to the Speaker. In a very cavalier manner they went to him in the Chair and said we have been sent by the King to collect these five members of the House of Commons to take them to custody. The Speaker looked around the House and said, you want member so and so, I cannot see them. He said so yet they were there. That became the epitome of the protection of the House and its Members by the Speaker. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.
Let me finish.
Order, Sen. Kembi-Gitura, let him finish. I will give you time.
The only thing that touched me is that the Standing Orders give me time to speak. I have eight thingsthat I wanted to critique in the President’s Speech and I did not even finish two. I am very fond of standing on points of order all the time. Normally, you do not give me chance like four or five times in a row. You would give me one, then deny me and give me another chance later. I appreciate that because I am not the only Member in the House. I want to reaffirm my great respect for the Chair, for you personally and for my distinguished learned senior, Sen. Kembi-Gitura. I have no issues with him. When we come here, we are not a parliamentary system. The parliamentary system would require the President or his nominee, called the Leader of Government Business, to sit in the House and answer blow by blow on matters touching on Government. In the current situation, the President comes only once to give a treatise of the state of the nation that he is leading and what his Government is doing to Parliament. It is then upon us, as leaders, to come and say that the President was right here but he was not right here. I have points where I was going to agree with the President on certain issues. I started with the points where I do not agree with him. My distinguished colleagues, who I do not know what gallery they are playing to, could not hear me criticize the President. They could not hear me criticize the Government nor could they hear me do anything. I want us to respect each other. I want us to debate issues in this House with decorum as it has been said. You used to see Martin Shikuku or better still, Mwai Kibaki, in the previous Parliament where we were with you. When I came to Parliament, hon. Mwai Kibaki was the leader of the opposite side of Government and he used to debate. He used language and facts stronger than I would ever do in this House and everybody listened to him. He would pick a budget statement and spend three hours because then there was no time limit. He would shred the budget speech from A to Z and dismiss it as a fallacy. He would dismiss the President as a sham, then he would walk out and go have his cup of tea. Nobody would interrupt him. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Members. I do not know where you want this thing to go.
Order, Sen. (Dr.)Machage. I allowed Sen. Kembi-Gitura to contribute after Sen. Wetangula for him not to continue with the false impression that there is a conspiracy. Sen. Kembi-Gitura, will you allow Sen. (Dr.) Machage to go before you?
On a point of order Mr. Speaker, Sir. So you want Sen. (Dr.) Machage to go before me?
Yes. Proceed Sen. (Dr.) Machage.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, this could be a point of omission or forgetfulness. We will need correction because this is a House of records. Was Sen. Wetangula in order to say that he appointed Sen. Kembi-Gitura as an ambassador? These records must be corrected. I believe Sen. Wetangula might have had a slip of the tongue. The only person who has that authority is the President of this country. He may correct that so that the records are clear.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am happy that Sen. (Dr.) Machage has brought up that issue. It was one of the issues that I was going to raise. Sen. Wetangula and I, as he has correctly said, go back a long way. He and I served as Assistant Ministers in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. We served this great nation with distinction. It is true that he was the Minister for Foreign Affairs when I was appointed the ambassador of Kenya to Brussels to the European Union (EU) and to Luxemburg but he did not appoint me. This is because he did not have the capacity to appoint ambassadors. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. (Dr.) G.G. Kariuki.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know what you have decided before you called me. What I was trying to say from the beginning is that we have had this matter since yesterday and you made a decision which was clear to all of us. No one said the President should not be criticized. You can critique the President’s statement and offer some alternative. If it is criticizing, anybody can do that and that is why we have Standing Orders here. Do not just walk in and start criticizing others and then get away with it just because of what you think. What you think might be irrelevant to other people because that is how you feel. We feel differently. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I take off my hat to you because you allow everybody to say what they think they know. You have given the whole afternoon and we are being The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Members, I think we have listened to everybody. Let me make the following observation. It is a sad day when responsible Senators can engage in a debate of this nature. It is a debate that is taken out of context, conjures up conspiracy theories that do not exist; a debate that attacks personalities and appears like we are gagging Members from speaking; either defending or attacking the Government. That is the job of parliamentarians. I have been in this House and always on the Government side. You can go to the HANSARD and find that I have always criticized even Presidential debates when I had the opportunity of the Floor but the manner in which you do it is what is contested. These Standing Orders are clear so that you do not reduce this – you have heard the expression – to a market place. There is a difference between debating in the Senate and debating in a public baraza. There must be decorum. Part 16 of the Rules of Debate provides that proceedings to be in Kiswahili, English or the Kenyan Sign Language (KSL) and Senators to address the Speaker; two or more Senators requesting to speak, the Senator called upon by the Speaker shall be the one entitled to speak and you do not demand; speeches may not be read; no Senator to speak after a question has been put. Regarding points of order, any Senator may raise a point of order at any time during the speech of another Senator. Anticipating debate is not allowed and proceedings of the Select Committee are not to be referred to. Standing Order No.90 gives you the content of speeches. Standing Order No.90 says that:- “(1) Neither the personal conduct of the President, nor the conduct of the Speaker or of any judge, nor the judicial conduct of any other person performing judicial functions, nor any conduct of the Head of State or Government or the representative in Kenya of any friendly country or the conduct of the holder of an office whose removal from such office is dependent upon a decision of the Senate shall be referred to adversely, except upon a specific substantive Motion of which at least three days’ notice has been given. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Presidential Address that was given not so long ago was a statement pursuant to the provisions of the Constitution. I listened to it and I dare say that I was quite happy with what came out of that Speech. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Order, Senator Kembi-Gitura! You chased the man from proximity to you. You can only assume the furthest point away from you. Respect that one
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I respect that very much because I can see has gone to consult at the other corner of the Senate. The point I am making is that I want to hope that the National Assembly realises that the Ksh29 billion that we increased and which we know can be found in the budget of this country, is going to counties. The National Assembly should appreciate that the constituencies they represent are within the counties so that it is in their interest that this money should go there so that their people can benefit. We have also increased or accepted the conditional grant that the government has given to the counties. This is important because the effect of it is to improve access, for instance, to medical care and to health facilities and also to those other things that are the duty of the county government than at this level; through the national Government through the conditional grants. This is something that needs to be lauded. It is something that we appreciate, all of us. During the period of the last four years that the Jubilee Government has been in power, we have seen a lot of changes in the way that things are done. We have seen the Huduma Centres; the e-citizen, for instance, and how much it has impacted on the issuance of licenses and certificates that otherwise took very long time and distances.
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Order! Order Members! Sen. Murkomen, nobody will chase you out of the Chamber, but I am sure the Deputy Speaker appreciates your other role as the Deputy Majority Leader and you might need to consult. However, do so in low tones, and preferably very far from the Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also know that you can order him to sit at the furthest point without interfering.
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is not my fault that when I get to the House, hon. Members get excited. I cannot really help that. The only thing that I can help is to ensure that it is not me who is talking, but with the excitement, how do I control them?
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is Sen. Murkomen in order to even imagine that Members get excited when they see him? It is just derogatory.
Order, Sen. Murkomen! From where I sit, you must withdraw those words and apologise for the simple reason the Members do not leave to welcome you at the Bar. You are the one who goes to the right, the left, the end and everywhere else---
At least, that is an honest admission.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Sen. Murkomen needs to look more clearly at the Oxford Dictionary for the meaning of the word “excitement.” He might find that he is wrong. I was addressing myself to the issue, for instance, of e-citizen. We appreciate that there is corruption in this country. However, it is also important to appreciate the effort the Government is making towards ending this. The Huduma centres; the e-citizen and also the systems we are using to pay money electronically to get the services through the e-citizen are amazing. Therefore, removing the human contact is something that I know will go a long way in reducing the levels of corruption. I can apply for a birth certificate or driving license from my office without having to meet anybody and get it in the next 48 hours. Similarly, I can apply for a certificate of good Conduct without having to meet a police man to give it to me, except take my fingerprints and then walk away and do it electronically. The removal of that human contact will reduce the corruption that is pervading this nation. Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is like having radars to track traffic offenders. If we have efficient systems, radars that catch up with over-speeding drivers, and communication is made to them via mail that they are expected to pay a fine and if they do not do so within a certain period, there are consequences; again that removes the human contact and reduces tremendously the levels of corruption. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Your time is up, Senator!
Mr. Speaker, Sir, I laud and support. Thank you.
Bw. Spika, kwa historia ya Waisraeli kulitokea wafalme kadhaa. Mmoja aliyeitwa Suleimani aliulizwa na Mungu yuataka nini kwa sababu alikuwa amemtendea wema. Hakutaka almasi, dhahabu, lulu wala wanawake. Alisema, ninataka hekima. Basi alitambuliwa kuwa mfalme mmoja aliyeishi kwa hekima. Ni kweli kuwa ukiwa mtawala katika cheo hicho cha rais wa nchi ombi moja ambalo lastahili umwombe Mungu akutunukie wazo na akili ndio kama Suleimani uwe na hekima. Ni rahisi sisi tukiwa hapa nje kuona mpira ukichezwa kama vile sisi katika upinzani wakati mwingine hudhani. Mmoja wetu hupenda kusema: “Fulani ana mpira, Wetangula na mpira, fulani ameushika, mara bao! Kweli wewe wasema hivyo, lakini ingia kwa uwanja ukaucheze huo mpira, utoe changamoto kama zile na kisha ufunge bao ambalo limo mawazoni mwako. Mhe. Rais alitoa hotuba iliyoonyesha machache ambayo yametekelezwa na Serikali yake katika hii nchi kwa muda wa miaka minne. Si sote ambao tumeridhika Kenya nzima lakini ukweli ni kwamba amejaribu kutekeleza mengi. Hotuba yake iliangazia miradi ambayo inatekelezwa wakati huu na ile ambayo itatekelezwa siku za usoni. Lakini swali letu ni hili: Je, haki imetendeka kwa kila mtu nchini? Mkoloni alianza kuijenga reli kuanzia Mombasa ikielekea Kisumu. Mji wa Nairobi ulikuwa kituo kilichokuwa na maji baridi. Kituo hiki kikaimarika na kuwa jiji la The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Asante sana, Seneta, muda wako umeisha. Sen. Wako.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak on this important Motion that the thanks of the Senate be recorded for the exposition of public policy contained in the address of the President. The Speech The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
It looks like your time is up.
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are very few of us. Can I have some more?
Time is up, Sen.Wako.
Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support the Motion. I will go straight to a few issues that I want to talk about because of time. I have gone through this speech and I listened to the President when he delivered it. As my colleague has said, it is a statement of the achievements of Jubilee Government for the period they have been in office. As a House or Parliament, our responsibility is to exercise oversight over the Executive. It is in that capacity that we are here to debate this Motion. As my colleague has said, some of the issues that have been raised here, obviously, we will have no issue with them. However, I have a number of comments I want to give. One of the things that, perhaps, this Government at the instigation of this Parliament has succeeded in is the capping of interest rates to 14 per cent currently. That is one of the single and most important achievements in many years if you look at the actions of the Government that directly benefit the people of this country. It is a pity that the President glossed over that issue. In fact, if you look at what he said about it, it is as if, at the end of the day, it was not the right thing that should have been done. That is my problem with this Government. Indeed, all successive governments in the past have always tended to look at the interest of the banks and of the elites or people who control the economy of this country. We are not looking at the interest of the common. If they looked at the interest of the common man, Central Bank and the Treasury would not be arm-twisting the Executive as we see today. We are being told in the media by the Governor of the Central Bank that they are doing a study and they might have to scrap that interest rate capping. The Treasury has said more or less the same. The President has somehow indicated that there are challenges. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, all this is happening because of the lobbying of the Kenya Bankers’ Association. The banks in this country control the Treasury. That is not what it is supposed to be. The CBK is there to regulate the banks in the interest of the people of this country. Just like any other industry, there are institutions that are there to regulate. That regulation must benefit the interest of the common man. It is the people of Kenya to benefit; not looking either at the interest of the shareholders nor the interest of the person who started that business. It is time this Government, particularly the CBK, focused on the interest of Kenyans as opposed to the interest of the banks. Their role is not merely regulatory; their role should be to facilitate the economy instead of only looking at it from one perspective: Are they shareholders making money? Are the banks happy? Are the banks reaping profits? We all know that the banks in this country have been profiteering literally; banks making tens of billions of shillings even when every other sector of the economy is making losses. Today as I speak in the last two years - the Nairobi Stock Exchange can The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Sen. Billow, your time is up!
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move: THAT, the debate be adjourned. This debate is very important and it does not matter how much it will take us to conclude, but I think it is important for many Members to be present when we debate it. So, I stand under Standing Order No.99(1) to request that we adjourn this debate to tomorrow when we will have everybody here. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate
Are you moving that the debate be adjourned?
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. We should adjourn and debate it tomorrow.
I believe that you are moving it under Standing Order No.99.
Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.
Thank you. Sen. Billow, do you want to second the Motion as moved by Sen. G.G. Kariuki?
Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I agree with you. It is a Motion where we need to have more Members in the House. Therefore, I second.
Hon. Senators, I defer Order Nos.11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 and 26.
There being no more business, it is now time to adjourn the House. The House stands adjourned to Thursday, 30th March, 2017 at 2.30p.m. The Senate rose at 6.20 p.m. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposes only. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate