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{
"id": 1399571,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1399571/?format=api",
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Crystal Asige",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity to contribute to this Bill. I am not sure if a Bill will really solve the deeply entrenched problem of corruption in our country. I would have hoped that would something that would be left to our population to look into our morals and values as people and as a society. The need for bringing a Bill to try and curb corruption, conflict of interest and all the other issues that ensue, for me, may not really go into solving the true problem that Kenya faces as a country. I will highlight a few data sets from the EACC national survey. This is just so that Kenyans can understand what types of issue that we are really dealing with. The study surveyed about 5,100 households across the country who are above 18 years of age. It says that 53.7 per cent considered that corruption is high in the country. Ministries most prone to corruption; the Ministry of Interior and National Administration was the first, 47.1 per cent. The Ministry of Health, 13.2 per cent. The ministry of Roads and Transport is at 5.8 per cent. Government departments and agencies most prone is the next one I will highlight. The police, 60.6 per cent, that is of national share of bribes. Next is Immigration at 4.4 per cent. Registrar of persons 4.0 per cent. There is the National Transport and Safety Authority (NTSA) and then the Teachers Service Commission (TSC). Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the county services most prone to bribery according to this report are the county health services at 39.1 percent, county transport at 11.9 percent, trade development at 10 percent, county commissioners’ offices and next are county public service boards. I will next highlight the counties that are most prone to bribery according to this report - Nyamira is the first one. Next is Baringo, Siaya, Bungoma, Turkana and it goes on and on. The average size of bribe went from Kshs6,865 in 2022 to about Kshs11,625 in 2023, almost double in a year. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, jobseekers were at the top, giving about Kshs160,260 as a bribe to look for jobs. People who are looking for passports pay about Kshs4,000 and people seeking police abstracts pay about Kshs20,300. People pay to obtain a tender about Kshs17,000 and solving land conflicts an average of Kshs12,673. I will move to another piece of data that was interesting to me. The top five forms of corruption nationally. Bribery is at 41.0 percent is what we are talking about. I have concluded that we need to find a long-lasting and sustainable solution to corruption. We talk about a Bill and yet, we all know that the huge problem in our country and several other jurisdictions is implementation of legislation. Legislation can be good, well meaning and the spirit of different provisions and clauses to curb particular issues can be very good and written very well. However, the implementation part is always the problem. Therefore, if we see such high and exorbitant data sets with regard to corruption and bribery in the country, how can we say that this piece of legislation will solve our problem holistically?"
},
{
"id": 1399572,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1399572/?format=api",
"text_counter": 276,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Crystal Asige",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1399573,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1399573/?format=api",
"text_counter": 277,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Crystal Asige",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Clause 23 of the Bill introduces stringent restrictions on public officers requiring prior approval from both the reporting authority and the EACC before engaging in additional employment. This Bill casts a wide net in its definition of a public officer, encompassing individuals serving the Government in various capacities, whether appointed or elected, on a full-time or part-time basis and regardless of their permanency. This expansive definition to me extends to include state officers, employees, consultants, volunteers and even medical professionals. However, this provision raises concern for me. It fails to acknowledge the numerous opportunities that public officers create to their supplementary employment ventures. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, many public officers as you know, particularly, the medical professionals often face financial challenges such as irregular salaries as we are seeing with the Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentists Council (KPMDU). They must support their family in some way. Imposing restrictions on their ability to seek additional sources of income may exacerbate their financial hardship. Furthermore, the proposal overlooks the temporary nature of certain public office tenures. For example, Members of Parliament (MPs) may serve for only a limited term of the minimum five years. Is it fair to prevent them from pursuing additional employment opportunities during that tenure, effectively pausing our growth in different income streams across the term we are serving? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that is a question that has not been fulfilled for me through this Bill. As we know, many MPs and public officers from the top all the way to the bottom talk about having a side hustle. That is something that needs to be looked into in this Bill. While it is crucial to uphold integrity and prevent conflict of interest, any measure should consider the diverse circumstance and the needs of public officers. In my view, simply restricting to earn a livelihood could have widespread repercussions. It jeopardizes both their financial stability and the capacity to serve the public effectively and maybe, pay longstanding debts. The Bill further stipulates that each public officer must submit a declaration of income, which is good, also assets and liabilities for themselves and their spouse or spouses and any independent children under 18. For this, the provision contradicts Article 31 of the Constitution which guarantees the right to privacy. Article 31 states that every person has the right to privacy, which includes protection against unwarranted intrusion such as seizures and unnecessary disclosure of family or private information or infringement on the privacy of communication. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, how does this Bill set to reconcile this issue? It is evident from this constitutional provision that no one should have access to information concerning the family or private affairs of a public officer, such as myself. While it may be reasonable to require some level of declaration, to those who willingly accept the positions, this should not extend to family members, spouses and children who did not choose this public life. There are many other issues that I cited in this Bill, but because of time, I will just conclude by saying that corruption is not going to be curbed by provisions, verbiage,"
},
{
"id": 1399574,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1399574/?format=api",
"text_counter": 278,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Crystal Asige",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1399575,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1399575/?format=api",
"text_counter": 279,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Crystal Asige",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "legal language on a piece of paper. We really need to go into the heart, which is more of how we bring up our children. What kind of discussions are we having in our households? What kind of talk and lessons are we imparting to our children on the dinner table? How are we treating family affairs? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I feel that there are many other things that need to come before and will have to precede this kind of a Bill and what it is trying to achieve and that does not lie on a piece of paper. We may be at the risk of just doing this cosmetically, just to say that we have a Bill, and it says one, two or three but we are not solving the problem at hand and are not doing it in a long-lasting and sustainable way. We really need a revolution in Kenya if we are to curb corruption, even in Africa as a whole. However, we are talking about Kenya, the country we are all here to serve. I feel that a revolution is the only thing that will get rid of corruption in our country."
},
{
"id": 1399576,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1399576/?format=api",
"text_counter": 280,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Sen. Crystal Asige. Sen. Olekina Ledama."
},
{
"id": 1399577,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1399577/?format=api",
"text_counter": 281,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Olekina",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 407,
"legal_name": "Ledama Olekina",
"slug": "ledama-olekina"
},
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. This is a Bill that requires people to wear their spectacles in order to understand its clear objectives. If I was to be asked, this is a Bill which no Member should stand to support or oppose, before they get an opportunity to read the report on the Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights (JLAC). I have attempted to understand the gist of this Bill and it sounds to me like one of those Bills imposed to this country by the World Bank. One of the biggest challenges I have in absorbing the contents of this Bill is because most of it, is utopian. If you ask me what the Object of this Bill is it clearly says management of conflict of interest in discharging of official duties. The first question that I ask is what are official duties? It also talks about administration. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if you look at this Bill, it repeals sections of other existing legislations which I dare say play a critical role in governance in this country. Bills that were drafted after the promulgation of the constitution. Some of the Bill’s consequential amendments which are listed in the Third Schedule include repeal of sections of the Anti-Corruption and Economic Crimes Act No. 3 of 2003. It also talks about repeal amendment of Section 1 of the Ethics and Anti- Corruption Commission Act No.22 of 2011. Then the other section of another legislation that it repeals is the Leadership and Integrity Act No.19 of 2012. If you look at Section 2, Section 6.3 and Section 6.4 are deleted. Section 13(1)(a) is deleted and substituted thereof with a new paragraph. Sections 14, 16, 17, 18, 23, 26, 27, 28 and 52 are all deleted. If you read further, you will understand that this is really not a Bill that has been thought out clearly and legislators have not been given an opportunity to understand what this Bill hopes to achieve. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have looked at what this Bill is trying to deal with, and I can narrow it down to about four issues. Issue No. 1 is of disclosures which is required for every public officer. You know, it is the same forms that we fill, although the Bill extends it a little bit further because it requires feedback from the reporting agencies. It talks about the recusal. In the event that there is a conflict of interest, you have to recuse yourself. However, even that in itself has not been fully thought out because there"
},
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"id": 1399578,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1399578/?format=api",
"text_counter": 282,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Olekina",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 407,
"legal_name": "Ledama Olekina",
"slug": "ledama-olekina"
},
"content": "The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1399579,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1399579/?format=api",
"text_counter": 283,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Olekina",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 407,
"legal_name": "Ledama Olekina",
"slug": "ledama-olekina"
},
"content": "are certain sectors of this public office entity that have been left out. It tries to focus on issues of transparency. It is trying to inculcate a culture of transparency. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the next thing that this Bill talks about is the issue of penalties, like what happens. I am trying to demystify the gist of the entire Bill because it talks about certain penalties and whereas there are penalties that have not been spelled out, it says if you are a person, you will be charged Kshs4 million with 10 years imprisonment and Kshs10 million if it is an entity. We have a tendency in this House of fast-tracking National Assembly legislations. When they are brought, we put them through the conveyor belt so fast and most of us not even understand them while our Bills originated from this House are collecting dust at the National Assembly. If you read this Bill, you will get to a point where the National Assembly is given so much power as a reporting agency. I will try and look at certain provisions of this Bill, which I think the drafters have thought about but need to expand it. I hope that this time around, distinguished Senators can get an opportunity to internalize this Bill. We do not want to be counted as those people who go in and clap for a Bill they do not even know what it is about because they have not read. Then tomorrow when it is affecting us, we start complaining. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when you are told as a public figure or a state officer, that you have to disclose all the money that you earn, the money that your wife earns and the money that your children earn, what sort of draconian laws are these? You will find families that the husband and wife, do not talk to each other but live in an arrangement. They make their own money. Imagine this, your wife or your child with his or her life, whom you do not talk to, as a state officer, you must disclose how much money they earn and all their income. Seriously! Just because we want to please the World Bank, we come up with legislation that do not help us. I long for the time when we, as a country can be able to develop our legislation, taking into consideration our culture - how people struggle to be there. If you meet the people who are tasked with the administration of this conflict of interest legislation--- No.5, it says the Act shall be administered by reporting authorities - I will define who those reporting authorities are - and the Ethics and Anti Corruption Commission (EACC). Why should we not just look at the EACC Act, go through it together and see what we can change because no law is static. Things change. We are very good as a country in drafting legislation. We pass it, but are only good on paper. There is one section which is very utopian in its nature. It is still on No.6 - The function of the commission under this Act shall be; 6b, develop an effective system of reporting violations of this Act. So, the EACC goes out and develops a reporting mechanism. Then below it in No.7, says- “The Commission shall in performance of its function under this Act have the powers to: one, “conduct investigation on its own initiative or on a complaint made by a member of the public”. I wish it went further and said what are the requirements. Once you complain, how are you put the know on the entire investigating mechanism? When is it reported"
},
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"id": 1399580,
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"text_counter": 284,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Olekina",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 407,
"legal_name": "Ledama Olekina",
"slug": "ledama-olekina"
},
"content": "The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
}
]
}