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"speaker": null,
"content": "(Question proposed)"
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Veronica Maina",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
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"content": "It is now time to engage in a debate on this Bill. I invite Sen. Omogeni to commence."
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"id": 1400473,
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"speaker_name": "Sen. Omogeni",
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"legal_name": "Erick Okong'o Mogeni",
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"content": "Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me an opportunity to also make my input to this Bill. First, I want to go on record in principle supporting this Bill. We need to give comfort to Kenyans that we are not introducing new taxation measures; we are just putting in place a mechanism to ensure that there is equity and fairness in collection of land rates from Kenyans. Madam Temporary Speaker, I join my two colleagues who this afternoon have kind of written the book of lamentations because of the corruption, wastage and stealing of public money that is happening in our counties. I am no exemption. As Sen. Mungatana has put it, unless we are putting in place The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1400474,
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"text_counter": 162,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Omogeni",
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"speaker": {
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"legal_name": "Erick Okong'o Mogeni",
"slug": "erick-okongo-mogeni"
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"content": "mechanism to ensure that this money collected will not form another stream for governors to steal, governors will start celebrating as soon as this money hits their accounts. I am speaking, having the honors of coming from a county that has been rated by Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC) as the one leading in corruption in the county. It is so shameful that a county that has produced distinguished Kenyans, including retired Chief Justice of the Republic and the Controller of Budget, has that distinction of being rated as the leading county in corruption. Madam Temporary Speaker, unless we put in place mechanisms that will ensure that this money is used for the benefit of the locals, Sen. Cheruiyot, this will just be another way of creating an efficient way of making easy money available to governors. I pray that the Committee that will retreat to go further into the details, will look at the mechanism of ensuring that once this money is collected from hard working Kenyans, it comes back to benefit them. Just the other day, the County Government of Nyamira increased the daily rates for mama mboga from Kshs30 to Kshs50. It was also a tussle to increase the boda boda rates from Kshs10 to Kshs20 per day. These are Kenyans who are hustling and make almost USD2 a day to fend for their families. Then, you find that somebody has the audacity and courage to again steal from such class of Kenyans. In fact, just to add on to what Sen. Cheruiyot was saying, you collect money, but do not provide even the basic services. In Keroka, our second largest town in Nyamira, we have been without toilets in our market for the last two years. A tender that was given four years ago to build toilets has not been completed to date. We also have the distinction as being among the six counties whose audited accounts have moved from being qualified to adverse. You know, one of the factors contributing is just impunity. Some of the queries the Auditor General (AG) is raising include there is circular from Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SRC) that has given a guideline that a governor should not buy an official car that is more than 3000cc. However, my Governor has defied the AG for the last two financial years and has continued to drive a V8 of 4600CC. It is just sheer impunity. It is like saying, “utado?” Now, we have moved to a level where the AG is saying that they will mark this as a county that needs to move from qualified to adverse. On bursaries, money that is supposed to assist needy children and orphans; the AG is saying, you cannot withdraw money and then purport to say you are moving around schools giving Kshs3,000, instead of transferring that money direct to schools. We had a sitting last week with the Committee chaired by Sen. Osotsi and in some instances, money is sent to a school with no names. One mzee was even crying that the name of his child appears as having benefited, but that child never benefited. Those are the kind of criminal acts that we have at our counties. The tragedy is this; EACC can issue a report telling us that Nyamira is the leading county in corruption, but there is not even a single case of anybody from that county facing corruption charges in any court of law. There has not been any seizure of assets. If The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1400475,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1400475/?format=api",
"text_counter": 163,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Omogeni",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13219,
"legal_name": "Erick Okong'o Mogeni",
"slug": "erick-okongo-mogeni"
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"content": "this money was stolen to buy properties in Karen; people are putting up maisonettes with lifts in their houses and no action has been taken. You know, EACC is chaired by my good friend, Bishop Oginde, a man I hold in high esteem and real respect. How are you going to build confidence in our governors if you rate a county as being the leading in corruption, and yet, you are taking no action to apprehend the suspects or those who are engaged in corruption? These are the people who, this afternoon, we are going to pass the National Rating Bill and place this money under their control. I can see there is a good effort in this Bill to ensure that we discourage manual collection of these rates. We are saying, they take the money to the bank or pay the money electronically. However, there is another clause that says a CECM can gazette another method of collection. That is where you will create those T-junctions we are talking about. This afternoon, I speak and appeal to my President that unless we tackle corruption at our counties and make corruption extremely painful, our people will continue suffering. Before the Committee of Sen. Osotsi, there was a situation where, Kshs110 million was sent to the County Government of Nyamira to build 300 bed capacity emergency Covid-19 response hospital. We were horrified when the Governor appeared and said that they decided to divert this money to other purposes. This is contrary to the Public Finance Management (PFM) Act. Madam Temporary Speaker, we were horrified that for mortgages in Nyamira, a cabinet sits and decides to dish out money. There is no security at all, no charge is registered and no format of how to recover this money, yet, this is public money. It is like a cabinet sits and says, today, they are giving a governor Kshs20 million and after three weeks, he comes and says that he wants a top-up. You are even given minutes saying that they have given the Governor a top-up of Kshs3 million. We should not allow this. As Senators, we must retreat and find a way of dealing with the corruption we are seeing in our counties. We cannot place our trust in Members of County Assemblies (MCAs). When we asked the Public Accounts Committee of Nyamira County whether they have ever done any report of how money is spent in Nyamira, they said that they have never tabled any report. So, they were just seeing these things when they appeared before the Sen. Osotsi-led Committee in the Senate. There is a big gap on how we can protect the public resources. The Bill is very good. I like the approach on public participation that, for once, we are recognising that the people who reside in counties may not be fluent in either English of Kiswahili. We are saying that there will be serious campaigns in our local FM stations and radio shows to ensure that before you make a decision on what you will be charging people who own properties in our urban centres, they have an input. That is very progressive. However, the elephant in the room is how to protect these resources. I must also commend the drafters of this Bill. Initially, I was worried that we may The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1400476,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1400476/?format=api",
"text_counter": 164,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Omogeni",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13219,
"legal_name": "Erick Okong'o Mogeni",
"slug": "erick-okongo-mogeni"
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"content": "be entering that territory where we want to tax farmers such as our tea farmers and the people who own freehold land. However, I am happy that this Bill has a clause that specifically excludes any rating from farmers who have freehold land. That is commendable of the Senate Majority Leader. Madam Temporary Speaker, we do not want to overburden mkulima . The farmer is already suffering and the returns from agricultural produce are not competitive. This is a good statement of comfort to our farmers, that the people we are targeting are the ones engaged in businesses. These are people who are making some income and benefiting from services being offered by counties, but who should in return pay these rates, so that they can be used to improve the services that they get from our counties. On the tribunal, I have no problem with the Judicial Service Commission (JSC) recruiting the members, but I am worried that the number we have put at 18 is quite big. I have never seen a tribunal that has a membership of 18. We should consider reducing the number of members of this tribunal and ask some key professional bodies such the Law Society of Kenya (LSK) and the Institute of Certified Public Accountants of Kenya (ICPAK) to send nominees. They can be given slots where they pick their representatives to sit in that tribunal. Madam Temporary Speaker, as I gear towards conclusion, I do not know whether there is wisdom in having Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) as a collecting agency for our counties. Just two years ago, hon. Gladys Wanga took the mantle of leadership in Homa Bay County. The County was collecting less than Kshs300,000 in revenue, but in this Financial Year, the Governor has demonstrated that with good leadership, own-source revenue can grow and make a huge meaning in the economy of the County. As we speak today, their collection is over Kshs700 million and that is just within two years. You can see what leadership means to our people. In Nyamira, we are still collecting the same money we used to collect five years before we lost our inaugural Governor, the late hon. Nyangarama. This tells us that the T-junction that Sen. Cheruiyot and Sen. Mungatana spoke about works well in Nyamira. It means that almost 60 per cent of the rates we collect from those poor business people, poor mama mbogas and poor boda bodas goes to the pockets of some leaders from Nyamira County. Those are the people are busy putting up massive buildings in the City of Nairobi and not even in our County. You will not trace them to any businesses; they are not professionals in any field, but their profession is to steal from poor Kenyans. The appeal I make this afternoon is that it pains me when I see our Members of County Assemblies (MCAs) not appreciating that they should not be the ones encouraging our governors to steal from the poor people that we represent. How I pray that we can find a way that can make the Ethics and the Anti- Corruption Commission (EACC) to wake up and do something that will deter future governors from stealing. Madam Temporary Speaker, criminal law is about deterrence. Unless you take action, unless people go to court, are tried and jailed, those criminal acts will continue The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1400477,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1400477/?format=api",
"text_counter": 165,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Omogeni",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13219,
"legal_name": "Erick Okong'o Mogeni",
"slug": "erick-okongo-mogeni"
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"content": "being repeated. I appeal to Bishop (Dr.) Oginde, the head of EACC, to focus on these counties that have been named as being the most corrupt and do something. Senators can speak here, summon governors and make recommendations, but unless EACC takes action, we will be lamenting day after day. I support."
},
{
"id": 1400478,
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"text_counter": 166,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Veronica Maina",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Senator. I hope EACC is watching the proceedings, with specific reference to the T-junction concept by the Senate Majority Leader and the Senators who have contributed. Let us have Sen. Orwoba Magoma Gloria."
},
{
"id": 1400479,
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"speaker_name": "Sen. Orwoba",
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"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I go on record supporting this Bill by the Senate Majority Leader on the national rating. I have spoken before on the own-source revenue issue. We have several counties that are receiving a lot of funds and they are unable to account for the funds but in the same spirit, they are not producing much in own-source revenue. As a matter of fact, the statistics are very damning, and I am glad that Sen. Mungatana acknowledges that Tana River is one of the counties that receives a lot of funds in the supplementary budget and the Equalization Fund, yet, for many years, they have been unable to account to what these funds are doing on development and the return on investment. I was happy when I went through this Bill on national rating on how to streamline and give legal framework on revenue collection of levies and properties in counties. This is because we have seen in the news and over the years, all these whistle-blowers in the counties saying that there is a lot of corruption. This corruption is now geared and targeted at the own-source revenue, which comes from land rates and fees. Madam Temporary Speaker, for instance, if you look at Nairobi County – and excuse me for using this example – Nairobi is one of the counties that brings in a large amount of own-source revenue. However, if you question how that revenue is being used and the extreme measures taken to ensure that certain rates – some of them that are completely crazy in amounts – you will be unable to get any answers to the questions that you ask. The idea of establishing a tribunal in the National Rating Bill to even oversight at what is happening at the county level and streamlining that space is about time. I wish the Senate Majority Leader was here. This because I am requesting that they go even further, that above ensuring that this tribunal is used to settle the disputes on levies and payment of properties, we should be looking at how we are channelling at this own-source revenue coming from the land rates. Sometimes, you go to counties and there is no infrastructure. Look at Nairobi: when it rains, we practically swim on the roads. You ask yourself, being one of the counties that is collecting a lot of money from property rates and levies, why that money is not channelled into ensuring that our infrastructure such as the drainages on our roads are maintained. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1400480,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Orwoba",
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"speaker": null,
"content": "Madam Temporary Speaker, one of the proposals that I have is that above and beyond giving a legal framework of how we are going to deal with the imposition of property taxes, there should be an element of dictating on how that money is spent to some extent. It does not make any sense that a county as big as Nairobi is earning so much on property taxes, but when we have basic weather changes, it is those same properties that are being hit the highest. You are collecting so much from the markets. I was so surprised. If you go to Dagoreti North, the markets there have been taken over by cartels. The rates that are being imposed in Dagoretti North and in the markets there in Kawangware are crazy. When it rains, those are the markets that are hit by floods, whose sewer is blocked, who close shops because it rained the day before. There has to be some level of responsibility. We can legislate this by saying that a percentage of the money that is collected from these property taxes should be pumped back into the same infrastructure. This is in the sense that even the people who are paying these levies and taxes are motivated. Madam Temporary Speaker, I do not know how to hammer this enough because I have said this before. I am always reading the statistics and trying to highlight that we need to get to a point, as a country, where we do live within our means. That means that if we are earning from this own source revenue from various taxes, including the property taxes that we are now trying to streamline, we also have to demand, as Senate, that the counties that report the lowest own source revenue should tell us why, after 20 years or so, they cannot channel these marginalised funds that we are giving into infrastructural projects or something that can now pump back money into the own source revenue. I say this because we have counties such as Wajir, Tana River, Mandera, West Pokot and Marsabit that receive the highest funds in terms of allocation, yet they are bringing in the lowest in terms of own-source revenue. No one wants to address that, but it comes down to the question of, is it that there are no businesses there? Is it that there are no buildings or no form of economic activity? As much as we are trying to streamline the property taxes, we also have to ask ourselves, is it that in Tana River where the own source revenue is only coming to Kshs59 million, which is like a drop in the ocean, we do not have any economic activities after all these years of pumping in money for infrastructure, getting supplementary budgets and all the oversight? What is the problem? We could be legislating here and trying to impose this new law for property taxes, but might not even be able to affect some of these counties. I do not understand if they do not have properties there or they are trying to have an economic activity. We will keep running away from the issue of own source revenue versus monies that are being given from the national budget, but at one point whether we legislate property taxes and all these issues or even deal with corruption, if we cannot understand why certain counties are unable to move from where they were 15 years ago and years after devolution and sending---"
}
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}