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{
"id": 1400481,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1400481/?format=api",
"text_counter": 169,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Veronica Maina",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. Gloria, would you wish to be informed by Sen. Mungatana? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1400482,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1400482/?format=api",
"text_counter": 170,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Orwoba",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Madam Temporary Speaker, I am in a very good mood, so I will allow for Sen. Mungatana to inform me."
},
{
"id": 1400483,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1400483/?format=api",
"text_counter": 171,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mungatana, MGH",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Madam Temporary Speaker, I admire the revitalised Sen. Gloria and her contributions on this Floor since we began. I just wanted to inform her that indeed the economic activities in places like Tana River are dominated by investors in those large parcels of land. However, the county government hardly collects anything in the little investments like the shambas and the houses. The reason we are saying this Rating Bill is very good is that if we can streamline the collections from all those big investors, the massive irrigation etcetera and it comes to the county government, then even what they are charging the bar owners or the market owners will come down. That is the information I wanted to give my colleague. Indeed, the level of economic activity is low. We do not have factories or industries, but there are huge investors and we are collecting nothing from them. They just use the land, make the money and maybe pay Government taxes. So, the own source revenue is very little. If this National Rating Bill is supported by the Senate and passed, we hope that it will increase the base and we will benefit from those huge areas that we are covering. Of course, she makes a good point about the pilferages. We have bad mismanagement and there is no excuse for that. I thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker."
},
{
"id": 1400484,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1400484/?format=api",
"text_counter": 172,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Veronica Maina",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Senator. Sen. Gloria, you can resume."
},
{
"id": 1400485,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1400485/?format=api",
"text_counter": 173,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Orwoba",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you, Sen. Mungatana for that piece of information. It is good to know because I have been looking at the figures of Tana River and it just never made sense. That is why I am also saying that I support this Bill, especially on the establishment of the National Rating Tribunal. In a situation like of Tana River, if at all this Bill passes and comes with regulations, this tribunal should be able to say these are some of the measures we are going to put in certain specific areas. We understand that Tana River, for instance, heavily relies on property taxes as its own source revenue. So, how do we customise our regulations to Tana River to the benefit of the people of Tana River? In essence, what I am saying is that if that is what you are saying, that tribunal would not be able to say that Tana River property taxes are the same as Nairobi for instance. My point here is what this Bill will do. First of all, it is a conversation starter in terms of we just pay taxes, but what is the expectation for those taxes? What is the return on investment on those taxes? In that same spirit, if a county government, this is where I would propose my amendments, is collecting such high property taxes with whatever justifications, particularly for instance in cities like Nairobi, then you also have to be able to justify your expenditure with relevance to the same properties that are earning you own source revenue. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1400486,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1400486/?format=api",
"text_counter": 174,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Orwoba",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Madam Temporary Speaker, I keep leaning back to Nairobi because it is one of the counties that I believe--- I do not want to sound political--- its potential is not being exploited. What is happening is because there is a baseline that this is the expected revenue that Nairobi County gives any way. Since time immemorial and devolution, there has not been any need to interrogate how that revenue is coming in. If an audit were to be done in Nairobi City County on how the own source revenue is being generated from Nairobi County, we would come back to the conversation on property taxes, on the levies that are put on commercial properties, on land and things like that. In the end, the people who are hit by the calamities that sometimes we face in Nairobi City County are the same owners of these properties. There has to be some idea of how we can legislate around a percentage of those property taxes being pumped back into the infrastructure of those localities and the properties around there. I support this Bill. I think people who have had conversations with me would agree that I have played a very critical role of pushing the conversation of own-source revenue against relying on the national budget, the supplementary budgets, the marginalized funds and things like that. As for the counties which are at the bottom of the list of the own-source revenue, that is, counties like Wajir, Tana River, Mandera, West Pokot and Marsabit, I think it is high time that we started asking them the very difficult question of why are they still not able to raise your economic activities? What is not happening? Devolution has been here. We have channeled funds down to the county and the grassroots. We have added supplementary budgets and marginalized funds. A county like Marsabit is receiving a lot of that money, yet, we still talk about low income on the own- source revenue. Why? So where is the money going? What is happening? Madam Temporary Speaker, as I support this Bill, I would like to echo the sentiments of Sen. Omogeni that corruption is one thing that we must deal with. We may legislate the property taxes and deal with the issue of the T-junctions, but if do not talk about what we are going to do with the issue of governors who have decided to just loot the coffers of the county government, then we will not be improving the lives of Kenyans in the grassroots. With those few remarks, I beg to support the Bill. Thank you."
},
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"id": 1400487,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1400487/?format=api",
"text_counter": 175,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Veronica Maina",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Sen. Gloria. I will give Sen. Catherine Mumma a chance to contribute. Sen. Catherine, are you going to exhaust your 15 minutes?"
},
{
"id": 1400488,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1400488/?format=api",
"text_counter": 176,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mumma",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "I know I am supposed to relieve you. I will be very quick. Madam Temporary Speaker, thank you for this opportunity to contribute to this Bill, The National Rating Bill (National Assembly Bills No.55 of 2022). First, I would like to commend the drafters of the Bill because for the first time I am seeing a Bill that is attempting to at least align with devolved governance. So, this is one of the Bills that I hope we can learn from in terms of speaking to a function that belongs to a county and trying to address an issue that affects those counties without taking away that role. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1400489,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1400489/?format=api",
"text_counter": 177,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mumma",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "This Bill provides for how we can have intergovernmental cooperation around an issue. You can see clearly that it is about how the counties can collect the rates. It has gone to extensive lengths to try and provide on how counties can levy the rates on land and property and how to go about this. One of the things that is hoped to be strengthened is the systems for county governments in terms of the rate collection systems. Whereas there are those who think this is going to streamline it, I am hoping that as we do the regulations, we can find that formula that will keep rates collections to the counties but ensure that there is transparency and accountability. The digital system that is supposed to be put in place, I hope, can be done in a manner that will ensure that transparency and accountability are achieved. As the law currently is, it generally speaks about electronic payments. However, I would hope to find that in practice we can find a way in which we can find a formula that can ensure transparency and accountability. Nearly every county has a digitalized collection of its own resource. However, we have counties that have pilferage. So, let us also know that even with digitalized systems, there is pilferage. Both at the county and national county level, we need to find financial systems that can help to ensure transparency and accountability of public funds. I will then move on to a few things that I think the Movers of the Bill need to look at and they are crucial for me. The definition of Chief Government Valuer does not properly align with the roles that they have been given. Here it simply says that the Chief Government Valuer means the advisor to national and county governments. However, when you go and find the role, it is hardly around advice. So, I would suggest that the drafters neaten that, so that what the Chief Advisor is supposed to do is aligned with what is in the text and the definition captures this accurately. I am also wondering about the tasks given to the Chief Government Valuer because it seems to be an institution, but there is no space in the law that has actually put that institution. So, he or she will be the one to keep the rating roles. Have they put any infrastructure to support that office to do the functions they have given? I have not seen it done in this law. It is something they need to look at. When it comes to Clause 4(2) of the Bill, it talks about guiding principles. It states as follows-"
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"text_counter": 178,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mumma",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "“(2) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (1), (a) County government shall ensure fair and equal treatment to all rateable owners."
}
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