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{
"id": 1400701,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1400701/?format=api",
"text_counter": 162,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Homa Bay County, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Peter Kaluma",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Temporary Speaker, I am standing before you and the House under Standing Order 131. For clarity purposes, permit me to read what it says: “Where after a Bill has been Read a Second Time and before commencement of Committee of the whole, amendments have been proposed to it, which in the opinion of the Speaker require harmonisation, the Speaker may direct any Member proposing an amendment to the Bill to appear before the relevant departmental committee dealing with the subject matter of the Bill to present his or her proposed amendments and the Committee shall submit a report to the House on the result of the exercise before the Committee of the whole House is taken” I am invoking the provisions of that Standing Order in relation to the next Order, which is to follow. This is with regard to the Assisted Reproductive Technology Bill (National Assembly Bill, No.61 of 2022), which should be proceeding to the Committee of the whole House. Those Standing Order provisions require that if there were to be invocation of the provisions, it be done just before we move. Since that is the next Order, I am so moving. Hon. Temporary Speaker, this is a Bill brought by my senior sister, Hon. Millie Grace Aoko Odhiambo Mabona. It is a Bill which has been brought before the House on a number of occasions before. If you can look at the Order Paper, there are several amendments proposed to the Bill. There are very many amendments proposed by the relevant departmental committee, which is the House Committee in charge of health under the able leadership of Hon. (Dr) Pukose. Those amendments, you will note, begin from the definition of provision, that is Clause 2, dealing with provisions. From the Order Paper, you will also notice from page 393 that there are very many amendments. If you look at these amendments, they also begin from Clause 2 of the Bill and they touch on several provisions. In fact, I can say over 90 per cent of the provisions of this Bill are being proposed to be amended by myself. I know it is not the stage to go into the details of those proposed amendments, but that is the reason I am moving, so that as we go for winnowing, the matters we can agree on, we do so. After that we can come back with an agreed position. This will save Parliament's time. For instance, I am proposing an amendment to the word ‘couple’. I am just giving this as an example. My concern is that a word like couple is already defined in the Marriage Act and in the Constitution, but the manner in which it is being defined here, any association of people can meet the definition of a couple. This will open a pandoras box. If you look at something like that, ‘any association of people…’ and by the way, it is not specific."
},
{
"id": 1400702,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1400702/?format=api",
"text_counter": 163,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Martha Wangari",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 13123,
"legal_name": "Martha Wangari",
"slug": "martha-wangari"
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"content": " Hon. Kaluma, do not go to the details of the amendments."
},
{
"id": 1400703,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1400703/?format=api",
"text_counter": 164,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Homa Bay County, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Peter Kaluma",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Temporary Speaker, you will note all that I am simply saying that a couple is a male and female. This makes it constitutional. There are several amendments by other Members. The highlight of those amendments is that while they are keeping to the substance of the Bill, they want to preserve the substance of the Bill. They do not seek to kill the Bill. They seek to ensure that ultimately, what this House passes is not only properly aligned to the Constitution and the other existing laws like the ones I have mentioned, but also, we do not over-elevate positions which otherwise we should be providing solutions to. Hon. Temporary Speaker, for that purpose, I am moving the House through you and very humbly, that because of the number of amendments and the depth with which they need to be considered, including those constitutional considerations, that the House directs under Standing Order 131, that all Members proposing amendments, including myself, approach the Departmental Committee on Health. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor"
},
{
"id": 1400704,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1400704/?format=api",
"text_counter": 165,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Homa Bay County, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Peter Kaluma",
"speaker": null,
"content": "That can be timed even if it is within the week or by next week that the Temporary Speaker decides that the winnowing process would have taken place. Then we come back with a report which would have harmonised so that those provisions we virtually agree upon can be passed. I do not believe the Mover will disagree with me on some of the amendments, including that one on couple, which I believe will be opening the institution of marriage to these things we call homosexual associations or other forms of associations. I pray, very humbly, that you direct everybody with amendments, including those Members whose amendments are still under process, to appear before the Departmental Committee, together with the proponent of the Bill, experienced Member, Hon. Grace Odhiambo, so that we return to the House with harmonised amendments. It will save the House time. It will also bring all the thoughts that are critical to this important matter to bear before we pass the law. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker."
},
{
"id": 1400705,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1400705/?format=api",
"text_counter": 166,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Martha Wangari",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 13123,
"legal_name": "Martha Wangari",
"slug": "martha-wangari"
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"content": " We have heard you, Hon. Kaluma. I will indulge the Chair of the Department Committee. I will also indulge the Mover of the Bill. I will start with you, Hon. Millie and then go to Hon. (Dr) Pukose."
},
{
"id": 1400706,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1400706/?format=api",
"text_counter": 167,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Suba North, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Millie Odhiambo-Mabona",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I have heard Hon. Kaluma. In response, I just wanted to clarify certain things. When you make a statement and leave some things hanging, people might think that there is a problem with the Bill. The Bill has previously been before this House, twice. This is the third time. When I first brought it on the Floor of this House, there was not even a single opposing voice. It was passed overwhelmingly because even some Members of this House are affected by assisted reproduction. There many Members who do not have children, including myself. Having been declared Dani, I am not going to have one. There are Members here who still want to have children through assisted reproduction. One of them, Hon. Shakeel Shabbir, who has brought amendments, has had a child through assisted reproduction. That is why it passed overwhelmingly. For Members who remember when Hon. Joyce Lay was here, she burst out crying when she was seconding this Bill. However, when it went to the Senate, there was a Member who had a Bill that had nothing to do with assisted reproduction, but something with surrogacy, they saw the Bill as competition and they killed it. Unfortunately, theirs did not even reach here. So, the Bill did not die because it was unpopular. It was very popular that the Senate wanted theirs to be the one that reached here first. When it came here for the second time in the last Parliament, again, it had overwhelming support. However, somebody misguided the church by telling them that there were wrong things in the Bill. We even met with the members of the church. Hon. Jennifer Shamalla, on behalf of the church, brought amendments to the Bill, but it lapsed. The Bill that is brought here is one with amendments from the church. That aside, I am normally very willing and able to accommodate Members. The Departmental Committee on Health has brought several amendments, which I think are excellent. I am not just flattering the Committee. They have brought excellent amendments, including deleting the clause that is offensive to Hon. Kaluma. They have proposed a deletion. I am an experienced Member of this House, especially at this stage. Hon. Temporary Speaker, you know that. You are also one of the Members who is experienced in this stage. Most members usually run because they find this complex. I can tell you that we usually employ winnowing when you have almost 15 to 20 Members bringing amendments. In this instance, it is just the Committee. As the Mover, I agree with almost everything that the Committee is proposing."
},
{
"id": 1400707,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1400707/?format=api",
"text_counter": 168,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Martha Wangari",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 13123,
"legal_name": "Martha Wangari",
"slug": "martha-wangari"
},
"content": " We have heard you."
},
{
"id": 1400708,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1400708/?format=api",
"text_counter": 169,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Suba North, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Millie Odhiambo-Mabona",
"speaker": null,
"content": " The second and third amendments have been proposed by Hon. Shakeel and Hon. Renee. I agree with most of their The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor"
},
{
"id": 1400709,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1400709/?format=api",
"text_counter": 170,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Suba North, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Millie Odhiambo-Mabona",
"speaker": null,
"content": "amendments. The only person who has issues or still wants to be considered is Hon. Kaluma. I would have encouraged us to start, and should we see that there are hiccups, then we can go for winnowing. We want the best for Kenyans who are struggling to have children. Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker."
},
{
"id": 1400710,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1400710/?format=api",
"text_counter": 171,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Martha Wangari",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 13123,
"legal_name": "Martha Wangari",
"slug": "martha-wangari"
},
"content": " Thank you. I will hear you, Hon. (Dr) Pukose."
}
]
}