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{
"id": 1467682,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1467682/?format=api",
"text_counter": 2554,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Elisha Ongoya",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the procedure of this House is that the notice by the Clerk gave all of us up to Saturday, 17th August, this year, to furnish our documents to the Clerk. My colleagues will confirm we actually, both of us, met at the Clerk's office at the same time. In fact, the Clerk did not have to incur any expense serving these documents. The parties just exchanged the documents there. We have just dealt with a witness here whose affidavit was brought to us for the first time when we were sitting here. We have had to collect all this information you have seen me using to cross-examine, including getting information from court in Meru to confirm who these witnesses are, because she had lied to you that so-and-so is not my witness, Virginia is not my witness. I had to get that evidence from Meru. It is an unfair approach to a trial for parties to keep subjecting us to new documents that we have not had a chance to discuss with our client and other persons who may have knowledge, so that we can fairly engage in cross-examination. Mr Temporary Speaker, Sir, I humbly beseech that parties having filed their documents, this witness’ evidence be limited to commenting on the documents already filed and not introducing new documents. It is becoming an extremely punitive trial process to us, as counsel and to our client, if we will continue facing a trial by ambush. Fortunately for me, this Senate has a number of lawyers who know just how egregious trial by ambush is to our justice system. We are here in a justice process. We beseech you, Mr Temporary Speaker, Sir, to make a definitive ruling that the evidence of this witness is limited to commenting on the documents already filed by the parties, where both parties have had a fair chance to look at and not ambushing us with new documents which we do not know how we shall interrogate them before we cross- examine them. I humbly beseech you."
},
{
"id": 1467683,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1467683/?format=api",
"text_counter": 2555,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Counsel Ongoya, you will note that in the morning, there was an application under Regulation 10 by the Counsel for the The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1467684,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1467684/?format=api",
"text_counter": 2556,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": "County Assembly with regard to these two particular witnesses. That is the basis upon which they were allowed to come in and was summoned. The first witness has already been dealt with and you dealt with it very well whichever way you did, whether it was out of your ability to do it, you did it within that short time. I believe equally, that this particular witness, because of the summons that the House issued earlier because we have not yet seen the documentation they are going to rely on, it will be on the basis of your documents and whatever registers that we will shortly direct, that it will be available to the Members of the House for them to print out of it as the witness proceeds to testify. I believe that in the shortest time that we have, we will have the witness take the stand and will be guiding the witness along the way. Counsel for the County Assembly, please, proceed to take the witness and make available the document that you want to have your witness testify on."
},
{
"id": 1467685,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1467685/?format=api",
"text_counter": 2557,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the witness has come with the original register. For context, the reason as to why this witness has been summoned is because we discovered forgeries in the Governor's documents after we exchanged documents on Saturday at around 6.00 p.m. The only reason this witness has come - It is a fairly short witness and in our summary request that we have built the original register there is only one original register. This is the original register he has brought for the letters and other correspondences that are served in the County Assembly. So, I implore and I would seek your guidance, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as to whether you can assist us to make copies so that they are available to Members or the original register can be circulated to Members. I am lost on the transcript there."
},
{
"id": 1467686,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1467686/?format=api",
"text_counter": 2558,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Counsel, as you run the witness to the document, we will need definitely for you to table the original document, as well as making available copies for counsel for the governor as well as the House to interrogate whether or not we will admit it, but we must get a copy of that register. Sen. Faki, what is your point of order?"
},
{
"id": 1467687,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1467687/?format=api",
"text_counter": 2559,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Faki",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13211,
"legal_name": "Mohamed Faki Mwinyihaji",
"slug": "mohamed-faki-mwinyihaji-2"
},
"content": "I am trying to understand this procedure. What I understand is that, whatever evidence that was before the County Assembly is what was brought here. Now, if they are bringing in new evidence, I do not think it is admissible."
},
{
"id": 1467688,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1467688/?format=api",
"text_counter": 2560,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. Faki, if you followed the proceedings in the morning, pursuant to the application made and the ruling of the Speaker, the reason as to why we have this witness is on the basis of that ruling. That has not been vacated. We are proceeding to deal with it. Proceed, Sen. M. Kajwang."
},
{
"id": 1467689,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1467689/?format=api",
"text_counter": 2561,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. M. Kajwang’",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13162,
"legal_name": "Moses Otieno Kajwang'",
"slug": "moses-otieno-kajwang"
},
"content": "Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it would be academic for us to proceed in the manner that has been suggested by the counsel for the County Assembly. We cannot listen to the submissions and entertain the interrogation if we do not have visibility of the documents or records. We are the judges in this matter. We are not the spectators. I know there is a past impeachment proceeding where we found ourselves in such a situation where a witness had been summoned and the documents had not been availed to Members of the Senate. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1467690,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1467690/?format=api",
"text_counter": 2562,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. M. Kajwang’",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13162,
"legal_name": "Moses Otieno Kajwang'",
"slug": "moses-otieno-kajwang"
},
"content": "The Speaker sitting where you are sitting made a ruling that we could proceed with the next witness, and if we do not have the next witness, then the House could consider listening to the testimony of the witness tomorrow in the morning, when all Members are able to be seized of the records or the substance that he wants to use to convince the Senate. Therefore, let us not do an academic exercise."
},
{
"id": 1467691,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1467691/?format=api",
"text_counter": 2563,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Wakili Sigei",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. M. Kajwang’, the ruling that I have made is to the effect that we get documents in the form of register for purposes of the Members to interrogate as well as the counsel for the Governor. This is the last witness by the County Assembly and they have limited time. You know, we are prosecuting this Motion within limited time, and therefore, we will, in the next five minutes, be able to conclude on this particular document available to Members, and then we close on this particular case. For now, the position is, we will avail the document they rely on, as well as, if any, important comments that they want to make or interrogate on the evidence that already had been supplied by both parties. I do not want to deviate from that early ruling. We will give them a few minutes to avail that document."
}
]
}