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{
"id": 1461,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Orengo",
"speaker_title": "The Minister for Lands",
"speaker": {
"id": 129,
"legal_name": "Aggrey James Orengo",
"slug": "james-orengo"
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"content": "A point was raised about whether Syokimau is actually in Mavoko or within the Nairobi City Council. Even if it is land which is allocated from the Ministry of Lands, if it is within an urban area, how that land is used is the responsibility of the Ministry of Local Government. I have had the occasion to also point out to the Ministry of Local Government the fact that civic authorities do not have authority to sell any land belonging to them without the consent of the Minister for Local Government."
},
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"id": 1462,
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"text_counter": 452,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Orengo",
"speaker_title": "The Minister for Lands",
"speaker": {
"id": 129,
"legal_name": "Aggrey James Orengo",
"slug": "james-orengo"
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"content": "Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, what I am trying to say in a nutshell, although I digressed a bit, is that, for me, speaking from the position of the National Land Policy and the Constitution, including the various provisions of the Constitution that have been referred to, I would support a position where the Government is actually obligated to stop all demolitions until everybody in the Government understands the process that is required to carry out evictions. If we carry out evictions without following the law, that will be highly inappropriate. It would be unlawful and unconstitutional."
},
{
"id": 1463,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1463/?format=api",
"text_counter": 453,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Orengo",
"speaker_title": "The Minister for Lands",
"speaker": {
"id": 129,
"legal_name": "Aggrey James Orengo",
"slug": "james-orengo"
},
"content": "There has been some discussion about what the Cabinet decided, and I have read out what the decision was. In fact, now that people are trying to cast aspersion, blame and call other people names, I would like to state that the truth of the matter is that there was no Cabinet decision as such. There was a decision by the Security Committee of the Cabinet. This is a matter which is known to the people; the people who are in the Security Committee of the Cabinet, who are about seven---"
},
{
"id": 1464,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1464/?format=api",
"text_counter": 454,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Ms. Ndeti",
"speaker_title": "The Assistant Minister for Youth Affairs and Sports",
"speaker": {
"id": 109,
"legal_name": "Wavinya Ndeti",
"slug": "wavinya-ndeti"
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"content": " On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. Could the Minister let us know who the members of the Security Committee of the Cabinet are? We do not know them. If they are the ones who made the decision, we want to know their names."
},
{
"id": 1465,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1465/?format=api",
"text_counter": 455,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Orengo",
"speaker_title": "The Minister for Lands",
"speaker": {
"id": 129,
"legal_name": "Aggrey James Orengo",
"slug": "james-orengo"
},
"content": " Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, let me come to that one later, because it is related to the point that I want to make. I will do it. I have no qualms about it."
},
{
"id": 1466,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1466/?format=api",
"text_counter": 456,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Orengo",
"speaker_title": "The Minister for Lands",
"speaker": {
"id": 129,
"legal_name": "Aggrey James Orengo",
"slug": "james-orengo"
},
"content": "The point I want to make is that even if the Cabinet made that decision, it does not mean that we violate the Constitution. Article 10 of the Constitution is very clear. I would like to read it again, with regard to the demolitions, because even last week, I had to write to the Commissioner of Police, the Permanent Secretary, Ministry of State for Provincial Administration and Internal Security and the Provincial Commissioner (PC), Coast Province, about an intended eviction, and tell them that they could not carry out those evictions. I do not want to keep on writing letters saying what the position should be."
},
{
"id": 1467,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1467/?format=api",
"text_counter": 457,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Orengo",
"speaker_title": "The Minister for Lands",
"speaker": {
"id": 129,
"legal_name": "Aggrey James Orengo",
"slug": "james-orengo"
},
"content": "Article 10 is about national values and principles of governance. The key words are “principles of governance”, which are critical. The national values and principles of governance in Article 10 bind all State organs, State officers, public officers and all other persons whenever any of them applies or interprets the Constitution, and enacts, applies or interprets any law or implements public policy decisions. So, in carrying out implementation of any Government decision, there must be strict observance of the Constitution. Therefore, nobody should stand up and say that it was a Cabinet decision and, therefore, they demolished the properties. You say that there was a Cabinet decision but you carried out the demolitions in accordance with the law, because that is what the Constitution requires. Therefore, with respect and humility, I want to put it before the House that from now on, we should tell those in authority, including myself, that demolitions have to be carried out, if they are in the national interest and for the good of the people of Kenya, but they should always be done in strict observance of the Constitution. The Committee will tell you that this was not an easy part for the Government to deal with when we appeared before the Committee. But at least the point was made that in relation to the demolitions that were carried out, they were security concerns and we were not able even to talk to the Committee in the public eye. We had to carry out proceedings in camera. I think those points were made. To me, what was of concern was that the demolitions that were carried out at that time were related to security installations at the time at the KAA, Wilson Airport and the Moi Airbase. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, as Mr. Kapondi pointed out, that if saw the demonstration that was given by the representatives of the Kenya Airforce, it was very difficult to live with the fact that these structures would continue to be in place at the great risk, not just to Kenyans as a whole, but interfering with aviation industry generally which is important for Kenya’s tourism. So, I would say that to the extent that this Report requires of the Government to ensure that there is a framework to carry out demolitions, I support the Committee in making those recommendations. In the Report, you will see that the Committee was talking about the eviction guidelines which are necessary in order to make sure that when we carry out evictions in future, they will be done within the context of the current Constitution. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, we have carried out the exercise at the Ministry although it is strictly not just to do with the Ministry of Lands. It is a law and order issue. We have prepared, and there is Cabinet Paper which has been prepared to state clearly how and when you can carry out evictions even where you have proved that you have a title deed and you have orders from the court to do so. Even in that respect, you need to carry out evictions in accordance with the new Constitution of Kenya. Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker, as relates to the many issues which have been raised on the Ministry of Lands, I cannot say that there is no abuse or malpractice---"
},
{
"id": 1468,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1468/?format=api",
"text_counter": 458,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Mbuvi",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 80,
"legal_name": "Gideon Mbuvi",
"slug": "gideon-mbuvi"
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"content": "On a point of order, Madam Temporary Deputy Speaker. We are almost winding up and the Minister has promised to mention the names of the members in the Security Committee of the Cabinet."
},
{
"id": 1469,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1469/?format=api",
"text_counter": 459,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Dr. Laboso",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Deputy Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 63,
"legal_name": "Joyce Cherono Laboso",
"slug": "joyce-laboso"
},
"content": " Mr. Mbuvi, Parliament is not ending."
},
{
"id": 1470,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1470/?format=api",
"text_counter": 460,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Mr. Orengo",
"speaker_title": "The Minister for Lands",
"speaker": {
"id": 129,
"legal_name": "Aggrey James Orengo",
"slug": "james-orengo"
},
"content": " There is a lot of time and I will come to it. He is saying “on a point of order”; he should be thrown out."
}
]
}