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{
"id": 1500032,
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"type": "heading",
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"speaker": null,
"content": "CONTRADICTORY STATEMENTS ON THE LOSS OF 367 TITLE DEEDS/ SECURITY PAPERS"
},
{
"id": 1500033,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1500033/?format=api",
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Tabitha Mutinda",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On behalf of my colleague, Sen. Hamida, who is away on official trips, I will proceed to ask the Question. I also take this opportunity on her behalf and myself to congratulate you for the great job that you are doing. I have three questions, Madam Cabinet Secretary. (a) What circumstances led to the publishing of Gazette Notice No.12436 by the Government Printer, informing the public of the loss of 367 title deeds. Could the Cabinet Secretary also explain the subsequent release of a contradictory statement by the Ministry, indicating that security papers and not title deeds, had been lost? b) Could the Cabinet Secretary explain measures the Government has put in place to ensure that the lost land documents are not illegitimately used and provide details on the assistance or compensation the Government will provide to individuals who fall victim to such use? c) What actions has the Government taken against individuals responsible for any identified lapses that resulted in the loss of the land documents? Could the Cabinet Secretary outline measures put in place by the Ministry to strengthen its document security protocols, to ensure that similar losses are not witnessed again in future? I thank you."
},
{
"id": 1500034,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1500034/?format=api",
"text_counter": 225,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Abdul Haji",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Cabinet Secretary, proceed."
},
{
"id": 1500035,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1500035/?format=api",
"text_counter": 226,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Alice Wahome",
"speaker_title": "The Cabinet Secretary for Lands, Public Works, Housing and Urban Development",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Thank you very much, Senator, for the question you asked on behalf of Sen. Hamida Kibwana. The response is on Page 11. The response to (a) is that our material supplies for purposes of titles papers or documents, including serialized title deed security papers come from the Government Press or commonly known as the Government Printer. Whereas the Government Press referred to the lost documents as title deeds in Gazette Notice No.12436, the Ministry, in its press statement, clarified to the public what had happened. We were not contradicting the press. We received a lot of inquiries after the first Gazette Notice by the Government press. There was a need to clarify to the public what had happened. Since we are the owners of the material when we receive them, we felt it was necessary to clarify. That is why we are saying what got lost is security papers commonly known as title deed. However, it is not a title deed. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1500036,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1500036/?format=api",
"text_counter": 227,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Alice Wahome",
"speaker_title": "The Cabinet Secretary for Lands, Public Works, Housing and Urban Development",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The security papers can only become title deeds after they are handed over to the Ministry, and then filled with the spatial and non-spatial information, signed by the registrar and sealed with the respective registry seals after all the processes have been followed. That is what you call a title deed. The press Gazette Notice, in a way, described them as title deeds. It was necessary for us to go back to the press as the owners of the material and the custodians of title deeds so that people can understand there is no title that is lost. Of course, there was an intention by the people who were looking for these papers. That will be then answered in question (b). I wish to respond to question (b) as follows- The Ministry has enhanced its mechanism for fighting land fraud and working closely with security and investigative agencies to defeat the mechanisms that cartels and corrupt officials have traditionally used to commit land fraud. Those anti-corruption efforts will be applied to ensure that none of the documents that have been reported as stolen becomes a threat to land ownership. Every state department, working with the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC) is required to provide their strategies to the Government of what you are doing to reduce corruption. There are strategies, including ensuring that only people who need service come to your office or the Ministry and ensuring that your materials are serialized. We have, therefore, ensured that the materials for title deeds are serialized. This problem has been there before. The land registrar by dint of Section 79 of the Land Act may rectify it. Assuming any of those documents land somewhere and have become like a title, we can direct rectification of the register and documents where the document in question has been obtained by fraud. The Gazette Notice No.12436 by the Government Press contained serial numbers of lost security documents, notifying and warning the public of the documents in question. Our registrars are also on the lookout for this. The serial numbers are known by the public and they are with our officers. If any registrar issues a title deed, then they will take personal responsibility because they do not just do a title. Every registrar receives title deeds by record, numbers and serial numbers. I do not want to give too much of our security features. However, our titles deeds have security features specific to county and registry because you may have two or three registries in a county. On question (c), the loss of security deed papers occurred in the custody of the Government Press because they are our printers. As stated earlier, the Ministry is working closely with security and investigative agencies to identify individuals responsible for the identified lapses that resulted in the loss of land and title documents, and take necessary legal action. I confirm that the matter was reported to the Central Police Station and investigations are ongoing currently. One suspect was arraigned in court because he works with other people. The investigation is still ongoing. We believe the police are doing their work. There was quick action, including arrest of one person. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
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"id": 1500037,
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"text_counter": 228,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Alice Wahome",
"speaker_title": "The Cabinet Secretary for Lands, Public Works, Housing and Urban Development",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Whereas the Ministry picks documents from the Government Press, they are all serialized. Each document is accounted for at the stores in the Ministry. For any documents picked from the Government Press, there is also a corresponding record by the Ministry and the Government Press. We have a dispatch book at the Government Press where all title documents are recorded and signed for by our officers. We have put additional security features on the title deeds and thus it is not possible to have them printed elsewhere. Fraudsters will continue printing and that is why the Directorate of Criminal Investigation (DCI) is important and critical in our work. They help us identify signatures of our officers that are often forged, both living and dead, and even retired officers. They copy old signatures. Once we get wind of a fraud, it is easy to deal with it. Obviously, there will be a court process. I want to assure Kenyans that these particular serial numbers are known and we do not see a threat to them. I hope that is clear. There was no contradiction. We basically gave the public necessary and useful information."
},
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"id": 1500038,
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"text_counter": 229,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Abdul Haji",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank You, Cabinet Secretary. We will only take one supplementary question because of time, which I will give to the owner of the question."
},
{
"id": 1500039,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1500039/?format=api",
"text_counter": 230,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Tabitha Mutinda",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first of all, the question has been extensively answered. Mine is just a small clarification because the concern for Kenyans was more on the title deeds. However, it is good to acknowledge that, even though the Ministry did the clarification by way of Gazette Notice. Nonetheless, the information that was given through the Gazette Notice really brought out title 367. So, if that was their mistake, it just needs to be acknowledged that that was their error, not the Ministry's error. However, the Ministry did well in clarifying this. You have talked about the cartels and they are the ones doing all this. What are you doing about these cartels, especially the ones within the Ministry? They are always loitering there up and down. Also, why do you not bring these offenders to light the same way this information was brought to the public? We need to see these people brought to the public so that we get to know them specifically. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir."
},
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"id": 1500040,
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"text_counter": 231,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Abdul Haji",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Cabinet Secretary, proceed to respond."
},
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"id": 1500041,
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"text_counter": 232,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Alice Wahome",
"speaker_title": "The Cabinet Secretary for Lands, Public Works, Housing and Urban Development",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as a lawyer, you know that you are only a suspect until proven guilty. Cartels are suspects. However, whenever we come face to face with them, the DCI brings out or gets sufficient evidence and we take them to court. Courts are public arenas. I have said before that some cartels are powerful and influential people. They are influential people. They make calls, but other smaller cartels now disturb people locally or everywhere. What I know is that I have made their life very difficult because the officers now know that they will not get away with it. They know because we The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
}
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