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"content": "(The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina) spoke off record)"
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"speaker_name": "Sen. Osotsi",
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"legal_name": "Osotsi Godfrey Otieno",
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"content": "No, I am talking to the House. I am not talking to the Chair. I think it is out of order for that kind of scenario to arise where any one of us, including myself, cannot stand here and start debating the conduct of a Member or other Members without a substantive Motion, even if I have the facts with me. That is out of order and I would like those statements that Sen. Gloria has stated to be expunged from the records of this House."
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{
"id": 1552624,
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"speaker_name": "Sen. Veronica Maina",
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"content": " Thank you for raising that point of order. In an actual sense and very strictly speaking, that is the position, that you do not debate Members unless you have a substantive Motion. We had guided Sen. Gloria and she withdrew the aspect that dealt with the ill motive, the insinuation of bad motives. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Veronica Maina",
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"content": "Yes, you can refer to the work of the committee, but not to debate specific Members. I guess her contribution should be taken within the context of reference to the specific committees that generated the Report. She withdrew the aspect of the ill motive, so that it was the work that the committee did that was brought into question. Sen. Gloria, I think the point of order raised by Sen. Osotsi is a serious point of order to always be emphasized, so that you can distinguish between the two to avoid disparaging Members when they have no right of response or right of defending themselves and especially when they are absent from the House, but this is taken within the context of the committee work. Concerning Sen. Kinyua's point of order, which was a bit misplaced at the point when it was brought to the Floor of the House, but which is also a serious clarification being sought on how a report should be handled when a Member feels that something needs to be ejected. I believe a contribution from a Member to a report to even request an amendment or a suggestion that brings more value to that report from the Floor of the House would be in order because committees work at the direction and instruction of the House and they represent the House. So, if the Senate feels that there is something in a report that needs to be beefed up or a gap that needs to be filled, it is for the Senator to raise that issue. If it is substantial and Members vote in favour, then, it should be included in the report. That would be the guide I would give regarding the effect of the contribution Members make, especially when they want to request for amendments or request to add value to the report. That should be in order. So, with that, I want to ask Sen. Karen Nyamu to take the Floor."
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"content": "Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker. Today, I speak both as a lawyer and a Member of the Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs (JLAC) that prepared this Report. I will not be visiting the recommendations because I am part and parcel of the process that came up with those recommendations. What is happening in our county government is organised corruption, and I dare say that fraudulent legal claims in public institutions, particularly our county government, is a new frontier for corruption. Madam Temporary Speaker, if you observe the urgency with which legal fees are settled at the expense of development budgets in our counties, you will realise that something is fishy. Our county governments are already cash-strapped, yet priority is often given to settling pending bills for legal fees. When you view it as a layman or even as a lawyer, it is tantamount to making money by merely shuffling papers and the profit margins huge. As Members of this House, we are tasked with protecting the funds allocated to counties. If we fail to address this ongoing trend, we will end up pouring resources into what I would describe, in Swahili, as a leaking basket. In Nairobi, when the new administration took office, the pending legal fees bill stood at Kshs5.1 billion. Governor Sakaja appointed a five-member Legal Fees Verification Committee, which successfully reduced this amount to Kshs2.7 billion. This is a huge amount of money. This is money that could have been used to equip Nairobi hospitals with medicine and medical equipment, create employment opportunities for our youth, improve our roads among The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
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"content": "other critical needs. This is why we must take this matter seriously because we are losing a lot of money in this manner. I commend the Governor of Nairobi City County for taking proactive steps to address this issue. He has demonstrated leadership by recently increasing the number of in-house lawyers in Nairobi County. He has hired 60 additional lawyers to bring the total to 84. This move aims at reducing the funds spent on lawyers in the name of legal fees. I do not want to delve into the debate on how these fees are determined, whether the remuneration order is adhered to or how these amounts are calculated, as my colleagues have already addressed these points. However, I want to draw the House's attention to the fact that counties are losing significant amounts of money through fraudulent legal fee claims. It is up to us to take action. Madam Temporary Speaker, I do not know whether we will revisit the report prepared by the Standing Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights, of which I am a member. Clearly, it has become unpopular on the floor. I do not know who will provide direction on the next steps, whether it is you or another authority. However, we must develop a report that reflects the situation on the ground and how we will manage these legal fees in future. Thank you."
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"speaker_name": "Sen. Veronica Maina",
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"content": " Thank you, Sen. Karen. We have concluded contributions to this Motion."
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"content": "On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker."
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Veronica Maina",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " What is your point of order, Sen. Osotsi?"
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"type": "speech",
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"content": "Madam Temporary Speaker, I was the last speaker yesterday on this Motion, and I was informed that I had 16 minutes remaining. I kindly plead my case before you, as I was handling an emergency and arrived late today. I would like to request my allocated time to contribute to this very important Motion. I have pleaded my case before you on why I was absent at the beginning of the debate."
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