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{
"id": 1553982,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1553982/?format=api",
"text_counter": 560,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Members",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "On a point of order!"
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{
"id": 1553983,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1553983/?format=api",
"text_counter": 561,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Peter Kaluma",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 1565,
"legal_name": "George Peter Opondo Kaluma",
"slug": "george-peter-opondo-kaluma"
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"content": " Hon. Kimani Kuria will be heard in silence."
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{
"id": 1553984,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1553984/?format=api",
"text_counter": 562,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Molo, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Kuria Kimani",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Temporary Speaker, on the two listings, ‘grey and black’, grey means that you have deficiencies in law of matters anti-money laundering, but you have committed, within a stipulated amount of time, to the financial action task force to bridge those anomalies. The blacklist on the other hand means you have no commitment. As we speak, we are between a frying pan and the fire. We are on the grey list. If we do not pass these laws that we have committed to, it means we go to the blacklist."
},
{
"id": 1553985,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1553985/?format=api",
"text_counter": 563,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Molo, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Kuria Kimani",
"speaker": null,
"content": "What does going to the blacklist mean? It actually means that, as a country, you have agreed to become a haven for financial flows on terrorism or counter-proliferation, which means financing of weapons of mass destruction. As we debate this matter, let us remember those two things. We are either on the grey list or the black list. We are on the grey list because we have a commitment that there are laws that are deficient in this country that we need to pass and if we do not, we will go to the black list and join countries like Iran and North Korea. Do we want to be Iran and North Korea as the Republic of Kenya? That is why this Bill proposes to amend 10 different statutes. They are: 1. The Proceeds of Crime and Anti-Money Laundering Act; 2. The Prevention of Terrorism Act; 3. The Betting Lotteries and Gaming Act; 4. The Sacco Societies Act; 5. The Mining Act; 6. The Accountants Act; 7. The Assets Agents Act; 8. The Certified Public Secretaries of Kenya Act; 9. The Retirement Benefits Act; and, 10. The Public Benefits Organisations Act. The essence of the amendment to all these laws, and like what some Members have been raising concerns about, is to give them the legislative framework they need to check the operations of those particular institutions on suspicion of counter terrorism. Suspicion on all these anti-money laundering, counter terrorism and proliferation does not mean that they are guilty. It just means that they need what you call Know Your Customer (KYC). In the banking sector, KYC means that when you interact with a bank or carry out a transaction, it is the bank's responsibility to understand the customer. For example, what is the purpose of the money you are transferring or depositing? With the changes in law where large sums of money are held by betting companies, SACCOs, and in the form of minerals, this is important. In 2025, a lot of finances is not necessarily held by banks as it used to be a few years ago. One of the amendments that I will be proposing from this Floor of the House is to include virtual assets and crypto-currencies under anti-terrorism law. With the evolution of the financial system, we have money moving away from our traditional financial system of banks. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
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"id": 1553986,
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"text_counter": 564,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Molo, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Kuria Kimani",
"speaker": null,
"content": "There are people who are holding money as virtual assets, in terms of bitcoins and crypto- currencies. We have a lot of money in our Saccos. I am happy to see the Chairman of the Parliamentary Savings and Credit Co-operative Society (PACOSO). This is one of the regulated Saccos in this country which holds billions of deposits, savings and shares. It is, therefore, important that the same scrutiny that is done on banking transactions, Sacco transactions, betting and mineral transactions, should also be done in our estates, as per the Estates Agents Act. Some of the provisions of this Bill also intend to take away entities that are not high risk like the non-profit-making organisations. Those are monies that are put together to build the welfare of the people. This particular Bill now takes them away from what we call the risk-based approach, and leaves them from the oversight of this law. This law is also providing new definitions and stronger sanctions, for example, the definition of “terrorism financing” and “dealer” in precious stones. It is imposing substantial penalties on an un- registered estate agents and other actors who operate outside the regulatory framework. That will close very dangerous loopholes that have previously been exploited. I painfully remember the butchering of 147 candidates at Garissa University. You all remember the US Embassy bombing in Nairobi at Co-operative House. I was in Class 6 or 7 then. We all remember the Dusit D2 Hotel complex bombing in Nairobi. Why was that possible? It is because it was possible to flow finances for those terrorist attacks. The parents of the students from Garissa University have never recovered. Lives of very young Kenyans at that particular time were lost."
},
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"id": 1553987,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1553987/?format=api",
"text_counter": 565,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Molo, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Kuria Kimani",
"speaker": null,
"content": "This law will ensure…"
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"id": 1553988,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1553988/?format=api",
"text_counter": 566,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Dadaab, WDM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Farah Maalim",
"speaker": null,
"content": " On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker."
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"id": 1553989,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1553989/?format=api",
"text_counter": 567,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Peter Kaluma",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": {
"id": 1565,
"legal_name": "George Peter Opondo Kaluma",
"slug": "george-peter-opondo-kaluma"
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"content": " What is out of order Hon. Maalim?"
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"id": 1553990,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1553990/?format=api",
"text_counter": 568,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Dadaab, WDM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Farah Maalim",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Temporary Speaker, is Hon. Kimani Kuria – whom I have a lot of respect for – right in insinuating that the money that was used to finance those bombings was being laundered? Can he give us information on that? We really want to know that money laundering, its source, and where it went through for the criminals to execute what happened in Garissa and Dusit D2 Hotel complex. He should give us the money trail and who has been arrested in that process."
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"id": 1553991,
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"text_counter": 569,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "A Member",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "On a point of order."
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