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{
"id": 1562662,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1562662/?format=api",
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Sifuna",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13599,
"legal_name": "Sifuna Edwin Watenya",
"slug": "sifuna-edwin-watenya"
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"content": "Now Mr. Speaker, Sir, the supplementary question that I want to ask is, whether this idea of transforming these mid-level colleges like the Kenya Polytechnic into universities without sound financial and research grounding was ill-thought of and given the inability of these institutions to self-fund from internal resources. He has brought that question out very clearly that these institutions are unable to sustain themselves because of the sources of funding. Would you still, as a Government, support this policy of transforming these mid-level colleges like Kenya Polytechnic into universities?"
},
{
"id": 1562663,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1562663/?format=api",
"text_counter": 102,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Kingi",
"speaker_title": "The Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Cabinet Secretary, you may respond."
},
{
"id": 1562664,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1562664/?format=api",
"text_counter": 103,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Julius Migos Ogamba",
"speaker_title": "The Cabinet Secretary for Education",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. For the first clarification to Sen. Sifuna, a figure of Kshs145 million is monthly support to cover gross payment of salary from January to June 2025. The conditional grant figures have been in-built into the Kshs12.9 billion figure that we are supposed to pay, which we spread out from financial year 2025/2026 to financial year 2030/2031. There is a schedule of how much per year we are giving so that that figure can be met. The idea was to take the Kshs12.9 billion and spread it out because the Government cannot afford to pay all of it at once. We spread it because, for example, if you take the Kshs4.3 billion that is the amount for pension, we know it is not required all at once, so we spread that figure out so that at least when people retire, they do not go home without any money. So, we put in some money, so that when you retire, you are getting money and you keep increasing that figure so that by the end of 2031, we will have cleared the debt. We will be in a position of sustainability. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1562665,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1562665/?format=api",
"text_counter": 104,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Julius Migos Ogamba",
"speaker_title": "The Cabinet Secretary for Education",
"speaker": null,
"content": "On right-sizing, this is the rationalisation of the staff and let me explain it further. What we found is that in universities, the ratio of teaching staff to non-teaching staff is supposed to be 70:30, but what we have in most of our institutions is the opposite. We have academic staff that are 30:70. So, right-sizing or rationalisation is as you continue employing, you see where you need to employ and where you need to release. For example, if a casual or somebody is on contract and you find he is in the 70 per cent portion, you do not replace that person. You let them go at the end of their contract so that you have an opportunity to bring this other side above, not at right size. There will be issues relating to sending people home, but that is dependent on a programme that would work if that becomes necessary, just like what we have done in Moi University. At Moi University, we agreed that the first thing that will happen is the people whose contracts are coming to an end and are not required to be renewed because they are in the category of where you have more than you need. When you want to deal with the rest of the group, for example, you want to send them home, you have to work using the normal process because it is a labour right. We discuss with them and with the unions. You must have funds if you are sending people home to pay them. These are the strategies or structures that we put in place. One is to ensure that we have sustainable programmes in the universities and we do not offend the rights of the employees. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we will not just sack people and tell them to go home. We will work with them and their unions to ensure that we have a transition programme to ensure we get the right level. That is the right-sizing rationalization that we are talking about. We will work together with them. We will not wake up and say, this group, go home. There could even be those who are willing to voluntarily go home and get their sendoff payment packages. On the issue of transforming these middle-level colleges into universities came about because there was a large number of students who wanted to pursue degree courses. Where students were supposed to go to universities we would start from the position of how many spaces we had in the universities for us to admit. We the did a cut- off point and say, for example, that year we were taking students from Grade B and above. Even the people who are qualified to go to universities were not getting the spaces. That is the basis upon which the transformation of these middle colleges to universities came about. Where we are now, the conversation needs to confirm whether we have enough spaces. For instance, this year, the spaces we have in universities to accommodate students are 305,000. The people qualified on the C-Plus to go to universities are 246,000. That means we have almost 60,000 available space to admit other students. So, the question would be, do we really need to do or create more universities since we are not getting enough students to admit? So, it is a conversation that we will have. At each and every discussion, this is the rationalization, discussion, the assessment that needs to be done, including the financial implications of it to see whether it is possible to upgrade. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1562666,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1562666/?format=api",
"text_counter": 105,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Julius Migos Ogamba",
"speaker_title": "The Cabinet Secretary for Education",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Currently, we have almost 79 universities in the country. Out which, 43 are public and the rest being private. So, we have enough spaces to admit all our students. As I said, it is a conversation that we need to have"
},
{
"id": 1562667,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1562667/?format=api",
"text_counter": 106,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. (Prof.) Kamar",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 33,
"legal_name": "Margaret Jepkoech Kamar",
"slug": "margaret-kamar"
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"content": "Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity and thank you, Cabinet Secretary for the answers. I am just wondering about the universities in relation to the Technical and Vocational Education and Training (TVETs) and you answered the question earlier. How much space do we have in the TVETs and mid-level colleges to absorb our students? I am asking that because you have rightfully said the percentage of the university is about 20 of those who did KCSE. You have also said that those figures are at least well-accommodated as far as admission is concerned, because we have even extra rooms. How many do we have in the mid-level colleges? This percentage that qualifies to go to college, what capacity do we have for them? That is for the mid-level, before we even talk of Vocation Training Centres. I know, since you are a Cabinet Secretary for both basic and higher education, we also have students who were offloaded in class eight and they could not go to secondary school because the spaces were less than the output that came out of primary schools. What plans does the Ministry have to make sure that we do not offload our children to the streets? This is because they are either somewhere or they are nowhere and we will find them out there in the streets."
},
{
"id": 1562668,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1562668/?format=api",
"text_counter": 107,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Kingi",
"speaker_title": "The Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Cabinet Secretary, just note down the questions. Senator Eddy."
},
{
"id": 1562669,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1562669/?format=api",
"text_counter": 108,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Eddy Oketch",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Thank you, Cabinet Secretary for coming to answer these questions. Hon. Speaker, my supplementary question is on Question No.58(c) that the Senator of Nairobi had started to understand the Government’s strategy on generally addressing the issues and the challenges currently affecting public universities, particularly by perennial strikes by academic staff. Hon. Cabinet Secretary, is there a specific remedy or a variety of remedies that you have put in place to deal with the disadvantage that students get with these strikes, particularly where sometimes they are not concerned? A particular case is the rampant cases of late or delayed schooling. For instance, when there is a delayed element or changes in calendars, where you find that a student who is supposed to even graduate in a year's time ends up graduating in two years or three years. This is becoming a very serious issue in public universities that I think that it needs to be dealt with, once and for all. Are there specific remedies that the ministry is putting in place to make sure that those disadvantaged students are also catered for in the middle of these perennial strikes?"
},
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"id": 1562670,
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"text_counter": 109,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Mariam Omar",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. My question is on paragraph 31, which is the Hon. Cabinet Secretary, saying he supports a payroll of Ksh145 million, but the gross one is Kshs272 million. So, there is what you call avoidable expenditure, which if you have not remitted the statutory deduction on time, there is interest per month. So, how will he take care of the interest? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
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"id": 1562671,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1562671/?format=api",
"text_counter": 110,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Onyonka",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13592,
"legal_name": "Onyonka Richard Momoima",
"slug": "onyonka-richard-momoima"
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"content": "Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to raise a supplementary question to the CS. Hon. Cabinet Secretary, I welcome you as my CS because we come from the same county, but professionally, I am happy. I am declaring my interest. Given the fact that you realize we are having a challenge on the housing problem within these institutions, has the Ministry done an audit to find out, for example, how many hostels all our TVETs need? I am sure, you know even all our universities have no adequate housing facilities or hostels. What is the most probable solution would you offer this country in terms of either systematically spread out over a period of time so that we can then solve the issue of the deficit of all our universities and technical vocational training institutes where our children have no places to stay? I am sure, like you heard Sen (Dr.) Khalwale state that when these young men and women are going for this training, they engage in untoward issues of alcohol abuse and social dysfunction. If we had hostels which are managed properly and where law was observed, we would make our children responsible and they would work hard."
}
]
}