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{
"id": 1566212,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1566212/?format=api",
"text_counter": 262,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Olekina",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Madam Temporary Speaker, we need to be very careful. We are here to protect county governments and not to go to bed with the national Government. If the good Senator is saying that the National Treasury is proposing, but not putting conditions, that has to be clear. I want it to remain on record and I hope that my good friend will make sure that he clarifies his submissions. This is not mandatory. We do not want scandals. This is a suggestion, but it is up to a county government to decide yes or no. I would be satisfied if that is what he is saying. However, it is that we, in the Senate, can audit then we will have a serious The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1566213,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1566213/?format=api",
"text_counter": 263,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Olekina",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "problem with that. This is because we will now be micromanaging counties' revenue- raising measures. I thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker."
},
{
"id": 1566214,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1566214/?format=api",
"text_counter": 264,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Kisang’",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Madam Temporary Speaker, this is still a proposal and I believe the National Treasury and CoG have a conversation. I am not speaking for the National Treasury, the governors or the county governments. I was just raising what is outside there and also as an expert in the ICT industry. I occasionally get consulted free of charge and that is why I want to advise the House, free of charge this afternoon, that there is a conversation outside there and it is a good thing. I believe if a county like Nairobi City County, which already has such a system say they were able to raise revenue from Kshs10 billion to Kshs12 billion, then it is a good system. They can proceed with their own. No one should be forced. If it is free, why not go for it? Madam Temporary Speaker, I am speaking because the county where I come from does not have Kshs50 million, Kshs30 million or Kshs100 million to pay for software. We will go for this system. We will be glad to get that system because we do not have that kind of money to buy software. Those who have resources like Narok, because they get a lot of revenue from the conservancy and the Masai Mara Game reserve can buy their own. We also need to put the governors to check. Why are they not collecting enough revenue? Every year, all counties budget a lot in terms of own-source revenue. However, by the end of each financial year, they will have only collected 40 or 50 per cent. In the process, they accrue a lot of pending bills. We need to audit and check. Say, if last year, Elgeyo Marakwet County collected Kshs200 million, we should not accept their proposal to collect Kshs500 million. What miracle is there for them to double? They should progressively add around 10, 15 or 20 per cent. Otherwise, at the end of the day, we will have a lot of pending bills. People are going to suffer. They will be given tenders to do work at the counties and there are no resources to pay for works that have been done. There is also something that is not going right in our counties. When the CoB approves expenditures, some governors divert. The Senator for Narok was saying all governors divert. Instead of paying those that have been approved, they pay their friends. They pay where they know they will get a cut, like 10 or 20 per cent. However, those genuinely whom the CoB approved payment for, do not get money. Madam Temporary Speaker, as the Senate, we want the CoB to automate the release of payments and then ensure that the counties do not have an opportunity to replace the payees. The only thing they can do is reduce the amount. For example, if they requested for Kshs20 million for a particular supplier, they can only reduce to it to Kshs15 million or 12 million. They should not change the supplier. This is what the CoB should do and put in place. I know tomorrow we will be meeting and discussing the formula. I urge my colleagues, for the sake of equity and helping the younger brother, we should sit down and see how we can ensure our counties that are getting less than Kshs6 billion are cushioned, so that we at least move, do work and do something meaningful for our counties. We want the small counties have good hospitals and Level 5 hospitals. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1566215,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1566215/?format=api",
"text_counter": 265,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Kisang’",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Currently, we have so-called Level 5 hospitals, but when you go to there, they are Level 3 hospitals. Madam Temporary Speaker, with those many remarks, I do not support the Bill. We should not approve it. Let us go to mediation for us to get the Kshs450 billion that our counties deserve. Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker."
},
{
"id": 1566216,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1566216/?format=api",
"text_counter": 266,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Veronica Maina",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Sen. Kisang’. Let us hear from Sen. M. Kajwang’ or should I take Sen. Korir first? Okay, we will hear from Sen. Korir."
},
{
"id": 1566217,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1566217/?format=api",
"text_counter": 267,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Korir",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker. Allow me to thank the Committee on Finance and Budget for the work they have done. I also commend them for giving room to a number of stakeholders to give their submissions which have formed part of this report."
},
{
"id": 1566218,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1566218/?format=api",
"text_counter": 268,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Korir",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The Division of Revenue Bill is an issue that this House needs to look into critically and compare notes with submissions of a number of stakeholders. I also want to congratulate the hon. colleagues on the number of submissions they have given."
},
{
"id": 1566219,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1566219/?format=api",
"text_counter": 269,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Korir",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "I want to touch on the recommendation that has been spoken to by two stakeholders: the submission by the County Assemblies Forum (CAF). The CAF's concern is the issue of underfunding by the national Government. The underfunding has undermined some of the legislative role of the county assemblies such as oversight and representation. It has affected committees which are supposed to assist in fiscal accountability. We have been fighting to ensure that counties deliver their services. The PFM Act mandates the counties to use their resources prudently, but the challenge that we have in the counties is late remittance by the national Government. Late remittance has made the counties to increase their debt. They are also unable to deliver on their mandates and cannot deliver services on time. We are fighting for the resources to go to the counties, but it is a constitutional mandate that the counties are to be given 15 per cent of the total budget. As I speak right now, the allocation that that has been given to the counties is still far below the requisite percentage. The Kenya Devolution Civil Society Organization have raised a concern. They have said that the amount we are giving to the counties in this financial year is far below the 15 per cent that we are supposed to give to the counties. This means that a number of things that the counties want to undertake cannot be actualized. Remember, there are some functions that have been given to the counties by the national Government such as the industrial parks, youth and women empowerment programmes and housing. I believe the counties should be given enough resources for them to counter-fund the projects that are supposed to be undertaken by the national Government. So, it will be prudent for this House to find a way of getting the fair minimum percentage that is supposed to go to the counties. I know we have the 15 per cent, but there are increasing demands on the county governments. This is because some of the functions of the national Government have been devolved to the county governments. We need to set a fair minimum that will help the counties to deliver."
},
{
"id": 1566220,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1566220/?format=api",
"text_counter": 270,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Korir",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "I agree with the recommendation made by the Committee on Finance and Budget. I know their hands are tied in terms of making this decision. They got submissions from The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1566221,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1566221/?format=api",
"text_counter": 271,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Korir",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "various stakeholders, but they have a challenge when it comes to the percentage. I once listened to Sen. M. Kajwang’ and he made a lot of sense when he talked about devolution and the counties. We are supporting the counties and that is why we have to look at this and rethink. This is because the monies that go to development raise a lot of questions. Imagine a scenario where a county gets Kshs13 billion or Kshs10 billion yet not even a Kshs1 billion goes to development. A lot of monies go to recurrent expenditure. We also have a lot of duplications in the counties. For sure, we need to relook at this. There are more questions than answers. A lot is needed to be done in the county governments. There is a lot of duplications hence they cannot do things the right way. This means that we need to relook at devolution. I do not dispute or challenge the need to have 47 counties. However, if we look at it critically, we can come out with a better solution where more resources go to the ground. This is because at the end of the day, it is not about the number of representatives or duplications, what we want to see is tangible projects that assist our people. Those are the concerns that I am raising. The Hon. Senator is here and he has also worked the county government. I saw a lot of sense and I feel we need to rethink. I challenge the Committee on Devolution and Intergovernmental Relations to look at this critically then tell us if this is the direction we need to take as a country. If the percentage we are taking to development is minimal compared to what we have devolved, then it should raise concern. I do not want to belabour on this. I support the Committee on Finance and Budget and urge this House to look at the issues of the counties. We should give the counties enough resources to discharge their services. I beg to submit."
}
]
}