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{
"id": 1566512,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cherarkey",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Commissioner for Co-operatives Development based in Nairobi and 47 county directors for co-operatives, so that we do not undermine anyone. The biggest threat to devolution are claw-back clauses. This legislation by the National Assembly wants to claw back some of the devolved functions like health and co-operatives. We need to be very careful as a Senate. The price of democracy is eternal vigilance. Therefore, we must be vigilant. There is a saying that when one’s goat goes missing, the aroma of the neighbour’s soup becomes suspicious. We should be careful about what the National Assembly wants to achieve because they are slowly taking functions of the counties and transferring them back. They are telling us that the National Government-Constituencies Development Fund (NG-CDF) has done much more than the counties. They say that before you kill a dog, you give it a bad name. There is corruption everywhere. I want to challenge Members of the National Assembly. If they have balls of steel--- I am sorry, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. If they have courage, they should oversight the work of the national Government. There is so much corruption everywhere. We should be calling the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC). I pity and empathize with Garissa County, because unfortunately, the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of the EACC comes from Garissa County. I do not know whether he will be conflicted and whether he will take action against the County Government of Garissa. That is a story for another day. The final point that I would like to make is on the structure of cooperatives. I am happy there are producer cooperatives that will encourage farmers. I have a farmer, Mr. Kosgei, who comes from Nandi Hills. They have their own tea factory. They have a building in Nandi Hills Town called Siret. Your dad was a Provincial Commission (PC). He knew Nandi well. We once went with him during my state of address at the Nandi County Assembly. They have a huge building, courtesy of Siret Outgrowers Empowerment Project (OEP). This is what we call producer cooperative. Sadly, the Government did not give them exception of Value Added Tax (VAT), yet these are small scale farmers. Let us avoid giving tax exemptions to who is who and, instead, give small farmers. I am happy there are Savings and Credit Cooperative Societies (SACCOs). We must check out the ones giving credit. There is a famous Savings and Credit Cooperative Organization called Kenya Women Microfinance Bank. In fact, I would like to advise Senators, to be careful on the loans your wives take, because if they take from the Kenya Women Microfinance and do not pay, Kenya Women Microfinance Bank will come with police and take your sofa set, beddings, television and the house. There is hue and cry in villages in Nandi County because of the Kenya Women Microfinance Bank. Wives take loans and do not repay. With those remarks, I beg to support. I will bring amendments at Committee of the Whole stage. I thank you for the indulgence."
},
{
"id": 1566513,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1566513/?format=api",
"text_counter": 266,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cherarkey",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
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{
"id": 1566514,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1566514/?format=api",
"text_counter": 267,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Abdul Haji",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Senator. Sen. Godfrey Osotsi, please proceed."
},
{
"id": 1566515,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1566515/?format=api",
"text_counter": 268,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Osotsi",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me an opportunity to also make my valued comments on the Cooperatives Bill (National Assembly Bills No.7 of 2024). The cooperative movement, as my colleagues have said, is a very important sector in our economy. If you look at the figures from the economy, you will realize the importance of cooperatives in our economy because 63 per cent of Kenyans depend on cooperatives. This means, more than half of the population of Kenya depends on cooperatives, either directly or indirectly, through members of the cooperative societies and their dependents, or through the programmes that they do in the society. I believe this number will likely go up as we continue to improve the status of cooperatives in the country. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, 45 per cent of our Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of Kenya is from cooperatives. This is huge, and therefore, it is a sector that is very significant to our economy. We are talking about an asset base for cooperative of Kshs1 trillion. This is nearly half of our national budget. This is a huge amount of money. Mr. Temporary Speaker, 30 per cent of our national savings are coming from cooperatives. These figures clearly indicate that this sector is important in our economy. The popular Session Paper No. 10 of 1965 that many of us have been referring to, talked about African socialism, where they were seeking to africanize the economy. One of the tools they used to Africanize the economy was through the cooperative movement. Even our forefathers had a very good vision of what cooperatives could do to our economy. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, having given a good picture of what cooperatives can do to our economy, including even having a loan portfolio of Kshs700 billion, the money that cooperatives have lent out to Kenyans, there are other issues that we need to look at. Kenya has been ranked very highly in the cooperative movement, being ranked as the top country in Africa and among the top ten in the world. However, that ranking has been going down and something has to be done about it so that we maintain our position as a leader in the cooperative movement, not just in Africa but globally. That is retarding, it is going down. I am aware other countries are coming up very fast, especially West African countries which are coming up to claim their space. One of the negative things that have happened in this country when it comes to cooperatives is the corruption and the stealing at the Kenya Union of Savings and Credit Cooperatives (KUSCCO). As we talk now, depositors are at risk of losing Kshs6 billion as a result of the stealing, looting and corruption at KUSCCO, which is the apex cooperative in Kenya, where, according to PricewaterhouseCoopers, Kshs6 billion is not accounted for because of irregular and illegal withdrawals, illegal cash transfers, illegal dividends and many other malpractices that happened. What I fail to understand is that the report is there, but these people who have been involved in this fraud are still enjoying their ill-gotten wealth and the police are"
},
{
"id": 1566516,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1566516/?format=api",
"text_counter": 269,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Osotsi",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1566517,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1566517/?format=api",
"text_counter": 270,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Osotsi",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "dragging their feet. Many of the people who are victims of this fraud are teachers and civil servants who have lost their money in KUSCCO. Even as we pass this Bill, we need to call out on the investigative agencies, the police, to arrest the culprits involved in the looting and stealing at KUSCCO. We cannot have a scenario where the apex cooperative in the country, which is supposed to be the key cog in the entire sector, becomes a target of thieves and looters, and very little is done to protect the funds that have been invested in this KUSCCO. Even in KUSCO, they say that these people were stealing upwards of Kshs580 million annually in the last 10 years and yet, we have a regulator; SACCO Society Regulatory Authority (SASRA). Where was SASRA all these years, when all this was happening? Did they see it? Did they participate? Were they conspirators in this fraud? I think a lot needs to be answered, not just by the KUSCCO directors, but also the regulator. What did the regulator do to safeguard Kenyans' investment in KUSCCO? We have other secondary SACCOs which have suffered. Stima SACCO, Mhasibu SACCO and others have suffered. They have lost a lot of money in KUSCCO and the loss of this money means the SACCO members have also lost their money. We cannot grow the co-operative movement if there are no proper systems in place to manage the apex co-operative. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, having given that picture, I think this Bill will help us deal with the challenges as what we have seen in Kenya Union of Savings and Credit Co-operatives Limited (KUSCCO) and other SACCOs which have been mismanaged. We have had many SACCOs in this country, which do not even give dividends, which when you apply for a loan, it will take ages for you to get your money. We are hoping that this scenario will end with this Bill because it gives the mandate to the Commissioner to regulate the co-operative. This Bill seeks to promote the co-operative movement in this country. It also provides a mechanism for registration and supervision of co-operatives, and most importantly, their regulation. What is not very clear to me when I go through this Bill is how that regulation of co-operatives at a global perspective is going to be aligned to regulation of savings and co-operative societies, the SACCOs, which are regulated by SASRA. So, who is going to do what when it comes to SACCOs? Is it the co-operative, the Commissioner of Cooperatives, or SASRA? I think that is where we are likely to have some conflict. I think moving forward, this is a matter that we need to discuss, even as we go to the Committee of the Whole House, so that it is very clear who does what when it comes to regulation, because SACCOs are just a category of co-operatives. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we are talking about intergovernmental relations, co- operative relations, where they are seeking to create a forum, which will be headed by the Office of Commissioner of Co-operatives. We will have all the 47 county directors of co- operatives, among other people. I think that is a very good forum of ensuring that we have constant and sustainable engagement and consultation and dispute management. That will help this country to manage the co-operative movement better."
},
{
"id": 1566518,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1566518/?format=api",
"text_counter": 271,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Osotsi",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1566519,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1566519/?format=api",
"text_counter": 272,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Osotsi",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "This Bill also provides a very good framework for promoting good governance and ethical conduct in co-operatives. This is one of the measures to try and deal with the challenges that we have seen in the co-operative movement such as looting, stealing and corruption. Most importantly, this Bill seeks to have a framework to ensure we have a sustainable and competitive co-operative sector in this country, which has been lacking over the years. It also provides a clear framework on how primary, secondary and even co-operative federations and apex co-operatives are going to interlink with each other. The primary co-operative has a minimum of 20 members, and the secondary has five on the minimum, who are from the primary co-operative. The federation has at least two secondary co-operatives, and then we have the apex. That kind of structuring is important, because you saw KUSCCO was even performing, competing with the ordinary co-operatives in their function. I am happy that the new Cabinet Secretary for Cooperatives and Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) Development has come out clearly to say that their role will be limited to advisory, training, capacity building and such. This should have been the case from the beginning. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, one important thing that cooperatives can contribute to this economy is in addressing the housing problem. Our Government has a housing plan which it is charging us in our payslips - the housing levy and many of us are not happy about it. How I wish the Government could put more effort in promoting housing cooperatives, so that people can invest with the purpose of borrowing to build or to own a house. The scenario that we now have, of being deducted money and you do not know when you will own a house is a challenge. Let us develop housing cooperatives and empower them. Even the money that is being deducted from our payslips should go to a housing cooperative. Let it go and be managed there so that when I want a house, I will go there and borrow using the money that has been deducted from me and own a house. The cooperative movement contributes to about 500,000 houses a year, which is 25 per cent of our requirement for housing. Why can the Government not invest in a housing cooperative? Maybe, when this Bill becomes law, it should be a matter they need to reflect on so that we have investment in a housing cooperative. The money that is being deducted from salaried Kenyans will now be directed to a housing cooperative so that people can access that money because, right now, we do not know how we are going to access our money. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is a tax. Let it be a fund which can be funded through cooperatives and then people can recoup back their money and participate in economic development. I also join my colleague, Sen. (Dr.) Boni Khalwale, to say that the new Cabinet Secretary for Cooperatives and Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) Development is doing a wonderful job. This sector had been forgotten. However, I see the kind of energy, hard work and attention from hon. Oparanya and it is unmeasured. These are the kind of Cabinet Secretaries we need in this country. We need Cabinet"
},
{
"id": 1566520,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1566520/?format=api",
"text_counter": 273,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Osotsi",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1566521,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1566521/?format=api",
"text_counter": 274,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Osotsi",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Secretaries who will come to Parliament, answer questions properly and then go back to the office and deliver. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, sometimes I wonder why we call Cabinet Secretaries here. They come, answer our questions and we give feedback and yet, we never see any change happening. I know we are talking about cooperatives, but the Cabinet Secretary for Labour and Social Protection was in this House. I raised an issue about a lady who had been killed in Saudi Arabia. The Cabinet Secretary promised this House that he will give an answer in one week. It is now two months. I have written a letter to the Speaker and I have not received any feedback. Meanwhile, the family of this deceased person is suffering. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we want Cabinet Secretaries who will deliver like Oparanya, Mbadi and others. That is why when we, as a Party, say we have taken experts to the Government, we see our experts working, led by Oparanya, Mbadi and others. We want to see our Cabinet Secretaries delivering in their respective dockets, so that the country can move forward in a better way. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with those remarks, I would like to say that I have seen an amendment saying that directors of cooperatives will be allowed to vie for only two terms. I have seen contestation about that provision, where some people are saying that the provision should not be allowed because it is a democracy, let people vie as many times as they wish. It is important that we have a time limit in the cooperative movement. With that, we will not have a scenario where one person serves as a director of a cooperative for too long. There are those who have been directors since my university days. I later started working and became a member of that cooperative and the guy was still there. Later on, I went into business and became a Member of Parliament and he was still there. I am now a Senator and the guy is still there. He has served for 30 years! I will not mention names, but if you walk around here, in the cooperatives around parliamentary precincts, you will find out how long some of those directors have been there. They have been there for many years."
}
]
}