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{
"id": 1585542,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1585542/?format=api",
"text_counter": 1042,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kilifi North, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Owen Baya",
"speaker": null,
"content": " I want to contribute to this very important Bill from the Senate. I congratulate the Senate for thinking about it. This is a matter we thought about, even when I served at the county. Why can the county assemblies not be given autonomy in terms of funds? This is a noble thing. Hon. Temporary Speaker, were you in an earlier Parliament?"
},
{
"id": 1585543,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1585543/?format=api",
"text_counter": 1043,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Farah Maalim",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Yes, indeed. I was in the 10th Parliament, when everything used to come through the Office of the President. Sorry, I meant the 7th Parliament. Before we got the independence of Parliament, we depended on the Executive Office of the President."
},
{
"id": 1585544,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1585544/?format=api",
"text_counter": 1044,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kilifi North, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Owen Baya",
"speaker": null,
"content": " That is what we have subjected the county assemblies to. In the 21st century, they operate under a 20th century paradigm. This Bill is trying to shift that into a modern paradigm. It is the right thing. The MCAs need to be independent, The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1585545,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1585545/?format=api",
"text_counter": 1045,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Kilifi North, UDA",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Owen Baya",
"speaker": null,
"content": "just as this Chamber got independence from the National Executive. For a long time, we have placed county assemblies under the control of county executives. Sometimes, if a governor wants to control or frustrate the county assemblies, they decide not to give them money or other resources. By controlling the budget and resources, you confuse the entire assembly. This is a very noble Bill. The two arms of government at the county level need to work independently, just as we work with the National Executive. The county assemblies and county executives should be financially independent. By giving them authority and resources, we empower county assemblies to oversee their executives effectively. As we give MCAs these funds and autonomy, they should now start overseeing the county governments and county executives properly. They have now been given the funds to do so, but they must be accountable for them. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to support."
},
{
"id": 1585546,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1585546/?format=api",
"text_counter": 1046,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Farah Maalim",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Hon. Nyikal."
},
{
"id": 1585547,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1585547/?format=api",
"text_counter": 1047,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Seme, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) James Nyikal",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise to support this Bill from the Senate. It is very interesting that, even after 10 years, we are still looking at the structure of financial management of these entities. It is a whole issue of devolution. In my view, when devolution came, we had the Commission for the Implementation of the Constitution…"
},
{
"id": 1585548,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1585548/?format=api",
"text_counter": 1048,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Farah Maalim",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " It was the Commission for the Operationalisation of the Constitution, or rather the Commission for the Implementation of the Constitution, as you put it."
},
{
"id": 1585549,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1585549/?format=api",
"text_counter": 1049,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Seme, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) James Nyikal",
"speaker": null,
"content": " We then had the Transitional Authority. We still have the Constitution Implementation Oversight Committee in this House. This Committee needed to continuously work because, with devolution, we devolved without first setting up the structures. I recall the debate before devolution, just after the Constitution had been passed, was that there was a need to establish some structures for the counties so that as they came into being, they would have rudimentary structures with which to start operations. We did not do that. We only considered the loss, and the Transition Authority did not examine the administrative element. That is what has brought us here. We now talk very much about runaway corruption in the counties. What do you expect to happen when you give out a lot of money without financial structures to support it? Unless you are an angel, you will use that money the way you want. I am happy that we are beginning to see that these are major structural gaps. Apart from the financial issue, the human resource issue also needs to be addressed. Let me talk about the issue of health that I am conversant with. Again, what we are dealing with is a lack of structures to deal with human resources. We had the Public Service Commission (PSC). We then established the County Public Service Board (CPSB), but there is no direct link between them. There are workers, for example, in the health sector, who recognise themselves as the same cadres wherever they are. However, there is no uniform way of handling it from county to county. Again, that is a major gap in the human resource management. I think the procurement sector is also suffering the same way. Therefore, Hon. Temporary Speaker, I support this because, for once, we are taking a serious look at the financial structures that are needed in the counties. This Bill brings in what we needed to have done immediately after we had the Constitution in place or even before we had it. In fact, it was suggested, but enthusiastic people shot it down. Maybe they saw ahead and gave themselves room to use this money. We are now putting it in the Bill. This Bill is good because it gives autonomy to the Members of the County Assembly (MCAs), which is the most glaring issue, although it is looking at all the other areas. Look at the issues of the autonomy of the assemblies. How can you oversee a person who is financing you? Structurally, it is not workable. That structure will just incapacitate you. There have been The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 1585550,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1585550/?format=api",
"text_counter": 1050,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Seme, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) James Nyikal",
"speaker": null,
"content": "many disputes between the MCAs and the governors, which is understandable given the structural nature of the issue. It would be unnatural if they were friends. It is like asking a goat and a hyena to be friends, expecting them to understand that they need to work together. It cannot work like that. When we give them this autonomy, they can manage their finances by themselves. Similarly, they may not understand the constraints of the governor. However, now that they have the money allocated to them, which they are handling, they will behave differently. The issue of holding governors at ransom, and on the other hand they are denying you what you need to do so that you become weak and more obedient, is a thing of the past. Many of the attempts to impeach governors may arise from this dispute: “You are denying us this, tutakutoatu” . That is what has been going on. Now that we have put that in place, I think we will also need to provide training and establish structures for them after implementation. Therefore, Hon. Temporary Speaker, I support this Bill. However, we not only need to look at the financial structures but also go ahead and look at the human resource management and procurement structures. Remember, we were recently looking at how they can access funds from grants and donors. I support. It is a big move; it has shown us the way, and we expect more to come from the Senate."
},
{
"id": 1585551,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1585551/?format=api",
"text_counter": 1051,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Seme, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. (Dr) James Nyikal",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you."
}
]
}