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{
"id": 1626182,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626182/?format=api",
"text_counter": 154,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Olekina",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I appreciate the fact that the Senate Majority Leader begun his debate by giving us a history of what led to his style of debate - evidence-based. When it comes to the issue of evidence-based, it is imperative for us to remember that, as a country, our national identity card number is what unites us. There is nothing that stops us from ensuring that one uses their identity card number for every transaction that they make online or to confirm any money. In fact, nowadays, when someone cons you, you can find them as long as you get their identity card number. We need to find a way. This is what I would like to inform the Senate Majority leader. We can use that identity card number to block someone from doing any other transaction."
},
{
"id": 1626183,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626183/?format=api",
"text_counter": 155,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Olekina",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "In countries where gambling is restricted, one is usually asked to put their national identity number or driver's license number the moment they try to gamble. If you go to Australia, one is not supposed to enter a club when they are not 21 years old. One is supposed to give out their identity card number in a club. They run it through to make sure the ID is legit or not. Nothing stops us from ensuring that this website the Majority Leader is talking blocking the IP address. If that is the problem, we can ensure that any transaction, which is done in the Kenya space, even if the site is in Germany or America, The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1626184,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626184/?format=api",
"text_counter": 156,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Olekina",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "requires you to put in your ID number. Once you put in your ID number, if you are not over 18 or if it is gambling, it blocks. There are ways around it with technology and Artificial Intelligence (AI)."
},
{
"id": 1626185,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626185/?format=api",
"text_counter": 157,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. Olekina needs to spend time with these young people to understand what I am telling you. Those sites are not hosted or designed here in Kenya. Therefore, you cannot determine for them what information they require from the people that are placing bets on those sites. They make payment using cards, Automated Teller Machine (ATM) cards and sometimes on mobile money. Therefore, it is not possible to do what Sen. Olekina is proposing. I know for a fact that these online platforms are taking away most of the gaming revenue from this country. That is another discussion we need to have all together. In the administration of the gambling space, Kenya and Tanzania took two different paths. Kenya decided to treat it as a social ill that needs to be regulated and, therefore, they imposed a sin tax on it in the form of an excise duty. That means that every time you place a bet, there is tax deductible; just trying to dissuade people from participating in it. That is what has led to a lot of traffic going offline, away from the regulated betting spaces in Kenya. Tanzania, on the other hand, chose to be facilitative and treated it like just any other social ill. They said something must kill a man. For you, it is gambling; for another person, it is drinking. They say they treat all of them equally. As we speak today, the level of business that operated in Kenya has gone down, while in that country, it has increased. I do not think that Kenya made the wrong decision. I believe years down the line, Tanzania will regret that decision. On that one, I agree that as a country, we must find ways of inhibiting the gambling habits of the people. I was just bringing to the attention of the House the evolving space within which this industry operates. That as we try to tax them here, to dissuade them from participating in these games, they have actually taken off and they are now online. As we speak today, we must find ways of regulating this sector. Other countries have tried to ensure that there is benefit. Any challenges that occur from subsequent months and years of betting to a particular individual are sorted by the betting house. Before Sen. Olekina rose to inform me, I was giving the example of a piece of legislation that was shared to me by one of the interns at the UK embassy about a year or two ago by the time we were beginning this debate. They say that they have actually forced all gambling entities, so long as you provide gambling activities in the country, be it online or in the form of a casino, to keep a record of the customers and they share, and they are able to follow the trend. If they find that you are getting to levels close to addiction and you are becoming dependent on it while it is just supposed to be a sport, they call you and offer counselling services to you, mandatory by law. That is the kind of work that we need to demand from the firms that operate gambling activities in this country. They must look after their customers. If they notice that one is addicted, they provide support services to you as a customer. That needs to be provided by this Authority. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1626186,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626186/?format=api",
"text_counter": 158,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": null,
"content": "That is why I want to persuade my colleagues that turning our backs on our countrymen and women that are struggling with this menace is not an act of leadership. It will be an act of cowardice on our part. While we may not agree with their choices, we pass law in this House for the people that we agree with and those that we do not agree with. I do not know even how to gamble. I have never gambled in my life, but I am fully aware that so many of the young people that vote for me to come to this House battle with gambling addictions. I must provide a regulatory framework for them to have an entity that will look straight into the eye of these betting firms and tell them to look after their customers and provide support services to them if they get to addiction. The CSR support that Sen. Cherarkey was talking about must be provided, so that you counterbalance between the force of good and evil in the society. At the end of the day, if there are challenges that they have brought about in the society, how have they counterbalanced it? Everybody knows that the biggest contributors in this day and age in the sporting world are these betting firms across the globe. They sponsor the biggest of sporting franchises out there. They develop gymnasiums and stadia. Therefore, I urge my colleagues that while looking at this topic, let us be mindful of the fact that this is not a simple decision that you can just make and say we choose to look away. First, you need to have an authority. The current regulator, Betting Licensing Control Board (BLCB) is just a department in one of the offices here. You need an authority that has representation from almost all spheres of society, including even religious institutions; those who will have the courage to sit in that board. This is so that when you set the tough conditions, the firms live by the rules, play by the rules, and we protect many citizens that continue to battle and struggle in this space. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I urge colleagues that have taken time to read through this Report. I appreciate that it has been a protracted battle between the Senate and the National Assembly, their perspective of things. There are many things we had included, including taxes that we proposed. If you remember, we had actually proposed something akin to a sin tax, to ensure that we dissuade young people. Unfortunately, when these people went to the mediation, it was dropped because I know the National Assembly will never agree to any tax proposition coming from the Senate. Of course, the matter was not even given a chance. I knew that proposition had the chance of a snowball in hell the minute he left this House, so long as it was going to get to the National Assembly because they do not view this for what it is. It is a broader conversation about what is the space of Senate with regards to taxation and so on and so forth. Therefore, we lost it at that. One of the members who moved that proposal on taxation was to sort that issue that I had proposed or that I had spoken to earlier between how we chose to administer betting and the difference in approach we took between us and Tanzania. Unfortunately, since that was lost in the mediation, I concede. We must be able to achieve the greater good that will tie in the small ends eventually when we have the opportunity. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1626187,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626187/?format=api",
"text_counter": 159,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": null,
"content": "I request that we conclude on this business today, if possible, so that when we get the opportunity to have a regulatory authority, then we shall invite them to this House and now ask the hard questions. Maybe there are technological solutions available to these companies that are running betting online and do not have presence in Kenya or pay taxes in this country. In this country, there is a lot of ways in which we can find them. I know, for example, Sen. Ledama, since earlier on, you had asked me what might be the solution, you can force their bookmakers. All these online betting firms rely on bookmakers that are regulated in countries that have stronger regulations in this space than the Republic of Kenya, to give us the odds. This way, you will be able to establish how many transactions they made out of this country and what it is that they paid. In this law, thanks to the mediated version of the Report, even if we have no ways of finding and establishing, we shall continue to demand of them until such a time that we catch up with you. You may be domiciled out of a country that attacks happened, that Kenya has no relationship with, but somehow someway, when the long arm of the law eventually catches up with you, you will pay into the Republic of Kenya. Therefore, I appreciate that proposition that has come from this Committee to tax even those that are participating in the online space and have no physical space in offices in Kenya. You may not have the chance to recover anything from them at this point, but somehow, someway, one day, one time, you will find the opportunity. Lastly, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like ask our colleagues to treat this matter with the urgency that is needed. Listening to those that are opposed and supporting this, there is one point that we all agree on; that, this is a space that needs our urgent attention as policy makers, so that we find a way. Sen. Ledama is proposing that we create a city akin to Las Vegas or China’s Macao. However, that will only work for those that operate on casinos. What about those that participate in the online space? What will you do to them? As I have said, there is no way of stopping them. Therefore, I urge Sen. Ledama that, let us create the authority first, then the rest follows. With those remarks, I beg to support and thank the colleagues who did a lot of work in bringing this Report before the House. I thank you."
},
{
"id": 1626188,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626188/?format=api",
"text_counter": 160,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Abdul Haji",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, the Senate Majority Leader. It is good that you declared that you have never participated in gambling. However, I wonder, is sending fare a gamble?"
},
{
"id": 1626189,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626189/?format=api",
"text_counter": 161,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cheruiyot",
"speaker_title": "The Senate Majority Leader",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Yes, Mr Temporary Speaker, Sir. Sending fare is a gamble, especially for a young man like Eddy. This is because, chances are she may come or not. That is a gamble. It has odds."
},
{
"id": 1626190,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626190/?format=api",
"text_counter": 162,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Abdul Haji",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. Eddy Oketch, the Floor is yours."
},
{
"id": 1626191,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626191/?format=api",
"text_counter": 163,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Oketch Gicheru",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Mr Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank you for giving me this opportunity. For the first time I have seen a situation where you invite Sen. Cheruiyot to give a comment on what the Speaker has said. On this issue of fare, I am looking at the Senate The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
}
]
}