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{
"id": 1626192,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626192/?format=api",
"text_counter": 164,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Oketch Gicheru",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Majority Leader. He looked annoyed when you raised the issue of fare. Although he is smiling, he is burning in the inside, it seems like he has gambled a lot with fare. On a more serious note, let me just share my thoughts on this gambling issue. Right from the start, I want to say that I totally oppose it for a variety of reasons. I was in the mediation team and was clear that this is something that we should not entertain in our country. Gambling happens in the context of a society. Every society has different challenges with how gambling manifests in it. A democracy as strong as the United States of America had a serious gambling issue in the last 20 years. Despite the fact that the United States is a 200 years’ democracy, they have struggled with the issue of gambling. There are a number of vices that come with gambling that cannot be commensurate with the benefits that come with it, whatsoever. In fact, in 2018, I had just left the United States of America, two years before that, when the conversation about gambling was going on strongly. In 2018, there was a Supreme Court decision that declared sports gambling, in Mafia versus the National Collegiate Athletics Association, unconstitutional. This was a case that was looking at sports gambling and the vices that it was bringing among young people in the United States of America. The United States of Ameria has a city, Las Vegas, where you can go and gamble, and some sort of regulations that are within states that allows for resources from gambling, to enable those states to raise some revenues without necessarily adding more taxes on people, and then do specific services to those states. For instance, where you find originals who are in the United States of America, like the Red Indians, whose communities might have been left behind in some inequality issues around economic development that are happening in the United States. You might find that some gambling might be allowed in those quarters just so that you can raise resources to enable them deal with those services that their communities need. Other than that, the overall issues of gambling become very complex to manoeuvre, even in advanced economies that can monitor those vices, like the United States of America. Mr Temporary Speaker, Sir, the question is, this particular mediated version is heavy on the opportunity for our Government to raise taxes. However, this is what you call regressive taxation. Regressive taxation is where the amount of money you will be able to collect practically from an activity such as gambling will continue dwindling. However, since you have given it an element of law to exist, the amounts that are being earned from that vice by people who have invested in it will continue to be abnormal in terms of their exponential growth. Therefore, you can never use gambling as a place to target tax revenue. If you allow, it has negative externality. When you allow it to happen in your economy, you cannot control where the revenues are going to come for the owners of those businesses. So, it goes without saying that other vices that are going to be there will always cost the Government more in terms of dealing with them. Mr Temporary Speaker, Sir, if you allow gambling and, for instance, you are making Kshs4 billion in taxation, for purposes of conversation, on an industry that makes approximately Kshs800 billion, and you are only taxing Kshs4 billion because it is regressive, then, while you are doing that, you find a society where young people are not The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1626193,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626193/?format=api",
"text_counter": 165,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Oketch Gicheru",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "employed, do not have technical ability to go to school because they are addicted to compulsive gambling. Compulsive gambling is where other behaviour has developed in your entire population; where children from secondary and primary schools start gambling behind the scenes in the black market. You do not have control because they can afford mobile phones. You do not have control of their behaviour, hence they start gambling. Consequently, this starts to impact negatively on their education, concentration in school and start stealing from their parents to gamble. What about a society where the poorest people, who are not even in the middle class, do not focus on their work, but instead spend more time gambling? This will have a ripple effect in the society when you look at their total productivity factor. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in your office, you have employed a number of young people who have just come from college. If they get captured in gambling and as a result fail to pay attention to the work that you have given them to do, what will be the impact in their productivity to what they are supposed to do for you as a Speaker of the Senate? It will have a big impact. That is why we call it compulsive gambling. The negative effect on society is so big that even if you were to collect a lot of taxes nominally, it does not match the money from the taxes. In absolute terms, the money going into gambling is huge. It grows exponentially. Why do we collect taxes? We collect taxes so that the Government can provide services to the people. Now, you are in a situation where you are competing for money that goes to roads, water, affordable housing and Social Health Authority (SHA), and at the same time, you have young people who have developed other vices, which include mental disorders. The Government is now forced to spend on these issues. That is why we call it a regressive tax. You collect a small amount of money compared to what is in the industry. Secondly, the Government will face compulsive problems, which will force it to spend on them. You will have to spend on a population that is not productive, suffers from mental disorders, facing problems of selling their assets and becoming poorer. So, you are getting a tax that is regressive. It will never help you. Gambling should not be a place where a government looks for revenue through taxation. It does not work like that. In fact, if we had stronger counties, gambling would be left to county legislation. Counties could decide the level and form of gambling they allow in order to provide a certain service. It would be used for own-source revenue, not as a substantive tax. This is what happens in the United States of America (USA), especially in states with Red Indians who are struggling. They are allowed to collect limited revenue from very restricted gambling activities. These activities happen in limited areas like Las Vegas. Then, you help the society. Why are we, as legislators, watching this Bill pass right in front of us and letting it go, yet it will have a ripple effect? When you pass it, gambling companies will grow rapidly. Everyone will get involved, including politicians. This is a major issue that the USA, China and other large countries are facing. It leads to political crime. Politicians use it to enhance corruption. It will work just like the mushrooming petrol stations we see The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1626194,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626194/?format=api",
"text_counter": 166,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Oketch Gicheru",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "now. Even in residential areas, people open petrol stations. They sometimes use them to hide funds. That is an easier problem. A bigger problem is passing this Bill and making it easier for people to get gambling licences. There is no way to monitor gambling activity apart from revenue metrics. We are using revenue figures to check what has come in and what we can get from it. This will become a conduit. It will be a place for the political class, money launderers and criminals to hide money. The Senate of the Republic of Kenya has been seen over the last three years during tempestuous moments, when the country faced many challenges, the Senate was the House that brought back sobriety. When Sen. Cherarkey speaks on matters of national importance, the country listens. The country trusts the Senate above the National Assembly. It trusts the Senate above the Executive, the County Assemblies and Council of Governors (CoG) on issues of national significance. I know women who have faced many problems---"
},
{
"id": 1626195,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626195/?format=api",
"text_counter": 167,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Abdul Haji",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. Omogeni, what is your point of order?"
},
{
"id": 1626196,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626196/?format=api",
"text_counter": 168,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Omogeni",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "I have heard my good friend, the Senator for Migori County, making some bad inferences against other legislative houses. He says data shows Kenyans do not trust the National Assembly and our 47 county assemblies. He says Kenyans only trust the Senate. Is that factual going by the contents of the Standing Order No.105? We should not say things we cannot back up by data."
},
{
"id": 1626197,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626197/?format=api",
"text_counter": 169,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Abdul Haji",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Sen. Eddy, what did you imply by that statement?"
},
{
"id": 1626198,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626198/?format=api",
"text_counter": 170,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Oketch Gicheru",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first, Sen. Omogeni is my senior. I know how much I respect him. He should not say what I did not say. I did not say that those other institutions are not trusted. I just said we are trusted more than them. It is an issue of level of trust. There is data, including Mzalendo Trust, that does data- driven research, that shows that the Senate is more trusted as an institution by Kenyans."
},
{
"id": 1626199,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626199/?format=api",
"text_counter": 171,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Abdul Haji",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Since you have referred to the existence of data, according to Sen, Omogeni's point of order, are you able to substantiate by tabling that data?"
},
{
"id": 1626200,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626200/?format=api",
"text_counter": 172,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Oketch Gicheru",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Mr. Temporary Speaker, if you give me time, I will bring you the Mzalendo’s data and show you how much the Senate is trusted across board in the country in terms of making sober decisions. I was calling to the conscience of my--- I know Sen. Omogeni has time to speak and perhaps I need to bring him up to speed because he just got in. We are discussing the Gambling Control Bill (National Assembly Bills No.70 of 2025). As my senior, I was trying to appeal to his consciousness that this Bill---"
},
{
"id": 1626201,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626201/?format=api",
"text_counter": 173,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Abdul Haji",
"speaker_title": "The Temporary Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Very well, Sen. Eddy. You will substantiate in the next sitting."
}
]
}