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{
"id": 1626202,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626202/?format=api",
"text_counter": 174,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Oketch Gicheru",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Sure, I will do that. However, I appeal to him as one of the Senators, that his Bill on gambling is a bad Bill. It is based on the idea that we will make significant tax revenue from gambling. You cannot rely on gambling to raise taxes. The The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1626203,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626203/?format=api",
"text_counter": 175,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Oketch Gicheru",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "people involved will make exponentially more money than the Government collects. Meanwhile, the impact of the vice on society will be severe. I was giving an example from my own community in Migori. There are several cases of people going through depression that have been brought to me. We have seen cases of people committing suicide after losing their basic assets. Some women have sold goats to go gamble. Some young people have sold their motorbikes, which they had saved for over three years to buy. Then they sold them to gamble and ended up losing everything they had. The impact is so big. It is not only about mental health disorders with suicidal cases, where people have killed themselves because of this gambling problem. It also furthers crime. When someone, young or old loses their assets or jobs through gambling, the effect is severe. If they do not commit suicide, but have lost everything, what are they left with? To survive, they may turn to criminal activities. We see these vices repeatedly in society. I know there is temptation to regularise this Bill. The idea is to create a framework that encapsulates the entire gambling industry into a tax bracket. However, this is one of those areas that should not excite us, as a country. We should not view it as a place to collect tax because that taxation is regressive. More importantly, even if you collect a lot of money from it, the revenue cannot solve the societal vices caused by gambling. Instead of just competing to build roads, the Government will also compete to fund treatment for mental disorders in society. When we talk about car hire services at a cost of Kshs42 million and competing to build roads and deal with issues of mental disorder in the society--- When you are competing to build roads or provide water services using the same taxation, there is another problem. You are not only dealing with provision of water, but also with crime that will come in the society. I can see that politicians might be worried about this because it is an avenue for some dubious politicians. I am not saying any particular politicians, but there is potential for dubious politicians to take advantage of this Bill and have mushrooming companies for gambling, so that it becomes a conduit for money laundering by the political class and other people who are outside of the political class. This is something that as a House, we must be bold, courageous, remain solid and distinct in our decision as a House, that despite the fact that this Bill has gone through a mediated process, this is a Bill that we must kill as a House and make sure that we do not give a licence to auction the future of our children or the healthcare of our children, by making sure that we enable an avenue for serious mental disorder. If we, as a country, must consider the issue of gambling, then I would wish this House the courage because we are established under Article 96 of the Constitution to protect devolution. Let us enhance the legislative capability of our counties to handle things like gambling Bills, so that they are customized. This is so that we only make sure that we do not touch the unconstitutionality of gambling allowance into the country. With regards to giving certification and legislation to operate, why can we not pass a Bill that will enable counties to determine this as an area for raising resources for specific services? This is not for all services, not even as a place for all sorts of revenue The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1626204,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626204/?format=api",
"text_counter": 176,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Oketch Gicheru",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "that goes into the backers of taxation in the counties, because that would also be tantamount to double taxation. I would wish that we just come up with legislation that allows counties to look for those specific gambling activities, specific areas of gambling and specific taxation that is county-level orientated. It goes to specific services, after which you do not take it to the entire CRF at the county to deal with the entire revenue issue. As a national law, I can assure you, having looked at the impact of gambling in countries that have made strides, countries that have got both the fortitude, not just the mental fortitude, but social fortitude to deal with the vices of gambling like the United States, countries in Europe and China, having looked at the infrastructure that they have put in place to ensure that gambling does not collapse their countries, we cannot afford to see this Bill pass in this House. I will work very hard. I know there are some Senators here who are very solid in terms of championing for, you know, being able to whip people around. I see Sen. Cherarkey in the House. We will work together to make sure that we mobilise ourselves against this Bill, so that we make sure that gambling as a vice does not percolate in our society. Otherwise, you will start seeing with, you know, these Gen Zs that we are now seeing, not having employment opportunities. They will find that gambling is the only option that they must go to, and they are going into that gambling without money. They do not have the money. They will start borrowing from Peter, Tom and John to go and gamble with that money. More frustrations will come in when they have failed, because the truth is that out of the people who gamble, not a big percentage of those who enter any bid end up winning that bid that they have entered. It means that when you have got a swath of young people who do not have employment, economic opportunities and opportunity for income generation, you leave them in trouble by allowing them to have the alternative as only gambling. I strongly oppose this Bill. I hope that my fellow colleagues will join me in making sure that it does not pass in this House. I thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir."
},
{
"id": 1626205,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626205/?format=api",
"text_counter": 177,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Kingi",
"speaker_title": "The Speaker",
"speaker": null,
"content": " Thank you, Sen. Eddy. Sen. Crystal Asige, proceed. I apologise for the fault on your console. We were not able to see your name."
},
{
"id": 1626206,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626206/?format=api",
"text_counter": 178,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cystal Asige",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Thank you very much, Speaker. I appreciate that, and for the opportunity to speak briefly on the mediated version of the Gambling Control Bill. First of all, this Bill came through our committee where I sit as the Vice-Chair, which is the Labour and Social Welfare Committee. When we were considering this Bill before it even went to mediation, I, as a member of that committee, opposed a lot of the provisions that are in this Bill. Also because the spirit of gambling, for me, is not really a legislative endeavor, I feel it needs to be thought about more in a philosophical way. Across the world, you will see that, I mean, even this title, I find it to be a bit of a juxtaposed kind of a title because it says ‘gambling control.’ I do not believe that you can control gambling. The world over, you will see that there are countries that have either allowed gambling to happen or completely refused for it to happen in their economies. However, those that have tried a middle ground, like we are trying right now, have not been able to control gambling as it implies in this title of the Bill. We need to remember The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
},
{
"id": 1626207,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626207/?format=api",
"text_counter": 179,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cystal Asige",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "that prevention is better than cure. Many times, I have seen in this House, as well as our twin House in the National Assembly, we look at problems in our society as something that can be legislated in black and white. Unfortunately, there are a lot of grey areas when it comes to gambling. I like what the previous speaker has said, which is that gambling follows vices. I believe that is the case for us here in Kenya."
},
{
"id": 1626208,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626208/?format=api",
"text_counter": 180,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cystal Asige",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "This is because if you look at reports, pieces of data or research, which I have, because I have interacted with this Bill before in our Committee, you will see that gambling follows quite specific vices in this country. Gambling is always targeted to vices such as abuse of alcohol and drugs. Gambling will target those who have vices around addiction of some kind. Of course, it also follows vices such as pornography, which nobody has spoken about here. I have not heard anyone speaking about the same. This is what gambling companies will always target, especially those who are online. They will target people who are into entertainment or sports. They will target those who are into drugs and alcohol, and those with any kind of addiction. Mental health as well has been spoken about here. They will target those who watch and enjoy porn. There are reports as well that we saw when we were looking into this Bill in our Committee on Labour and Social Welfare, which showed that in Kenya, some of the highest usage of the internet lies in those very topics I have just mentioned. It is the top 10. In the top 10 are entertainment, sports, shopping, but in the top three is pornography. If we do not address these issues, the vices themselves, then we will never be able to control gambling. That is my fear. Recently, in the last few months in this House, as I said, we keep legislating things that are the symptoms and not the actual core root of an issue. Recently, we were trying to legislate around fundraising in churches and the like. There are Members in this House who actually said and opposed that Bill because they said, “how can you tax or try to regulate fundraising without looking at the reason Kenyans feel like fundraising is their only hope to get through their problems?” When somebody fundraises for a sick relative, we must not regulate the fundraising. We must ask, why does this person feel like the health system has failed them?"
},
{
"id": 1626209,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626209/?format=api",
"text_counter": 181,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cystal Asige",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "You must not regulate that, but you must ask why this person is feeling that they have been failed by the education system and that is why they must look to their family, friends and community to raise funds for education. The same principle applies here. Why are we attempting to regulate gambling and impose heavy restrictions or legislation on this issue, rather than addressing the root cause of why people fall prey to gambling issues that I have mentioned before? Those are the matters we must truly sit and think about, not just as legislators but as thinkers, because that is why we are here. We are, apparently, the most brilliant minds in the country. That is why we have been placed here to represent our people. If we cannot sit and think about the root causes of our nation’s problems, instead of merely treating symptoms and slapping legislation on them, then we will never ever control anything, nonetheless, gambling in my opinion. Even if we go ahead---"
},
{
"id": 1626210,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626210/?format=api",
"text_counter": 182,
"type": "scene",
"speaker_name": "",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Loud consultations)"
},
{
"id": 1626211,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1626211/?format=api",
"text_counter": 183,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Cystal Asige",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."
}
]
}