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"id": 451,
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"speaker_name": "Dr. Kones",
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"id": 53,
"legal_name": "Julius Kipyegon Kones",
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"content": "Thank you, Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to second the Motion. I want to thank my colleague, hon. Otichilo, for coming up with this Motion. I remember during the time we were discussing the CDF allocations, I was one of the people who stood here and criticized the allocations. When I looked at the figures that had been tabled here on poverty indices in our constituencies, I was not convinced that those figures were right. There are very basic things which you can use to determine whether figures are right or not. If you are measuring certain parameters like poverty in areas which are fairly uniform and you find that in one area you are getting a figure of 60 per cent poverty rate, and in another area, which is less or more the same, you are getting a figure of 30 per cent poverty rate, then that gives you a cause for alarm. I used my constituency to explain that. In the revised figures, the current poverty rate is given as 34 per cent while in a neighbouring constituency, which I will not name, with very similar geographical factors and culture, the poverty rate there was given as 67 per cent. Then you wonder what accounts for this difference of over 30 per cent between the two areas. Probably, one of the reasons could be on the designs. The other area which we really want to care for in future is on the processing process, namely, the process of computing these figures. Is it free from manipulations? This will go to the Kenya Bureau of Statistics. Hon. Otichilo has gone through this report which was the basis of our poverty indices. The survey was conducted in 2005/2006 which is a long time ago. Apart from the drawbacks of the sampling design at that time, like few households and sampling only in a particular area, I want to advise that for purposes of such an index, we do not do a simple random. This is one of those indices that you must do 100 per cent household survey as opposed to just ten households per district. The Kenya Integrated Household Budget Survey used computed poverty index based on the expenditures at household level. You know that expenditures are affected by"
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"id": 452,
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"speaker": null,
"content": "40 Wednesday, 14th December, 2011(A)"
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{
"id": 453,
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"content": "several factors. Some of the factors which were applicable then, have since changed. In fact, this report has highlighted some of those things. I would like to touch on one or two of those reasons which should convince the Members why we need to do a fresh survey as a matter of urgency. Based on what they estimated to be the caveats, drawbacks or the errors that this estimation could have, in simple terms, we talk about poverty index without knowing what it is. It is just the proportion of those who are considered to be poor versus the total population in a particular area, in this case, the constituency which will be the basis for allocation of resources. At that time, a person from the rural area would be considered to be poor if he would be spending Kshs2,331 per month. In the urban areas, one would be considered to be poor if one would be spending Kshs6,673 per month or less. Apart from what hon. Otichilo has said, one of the reasons as to why we cannot rely on these figures is that there are issues of population migration. It was assumed that over the years, there would be no migration. People move from one area to another. We know that in the last few years, there have been a lot of changes in our population structure, particularly after the post-election violence. Some people moved from one area and are now concentrated in other areas. That has completely changed the population dynamics in such areas. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, where I come from, there has been eviction from the Mau Forest. The eviction has not improved the situation because the people who were in the Mau Forest used to produce food. Now they do not produce food any more. That means the data has changed. The other factor that affects the purchasing power of our people is inflation. I do not know what the price of petrol was in 2005, but I am sure that it was something like Kshs70 per litre. It is now Kshs124 per litre. That also affects the purchasing power of our people. Therefore, these should be enough reasons for us to demand that we go for a fresh survey to determine the poverty index, which is very important. Most hon. Members might have noticed that if we were to share our Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) money without using our own allocation criteria, each constituency would get Kshs57 million; that is if the funds were to be shared equally. However, if you factor in the poverty indices of our constituencies, you find a constituency getting Kshs70 million and another one getting over Kshs50 million. In other constituencies, like mine, where estimations appear to suggest that we are becoming richer, we have got just a small addition from the Kshs57 million to Kshs70 million. Therefore, I want to support my colleague in saying that it is so critical that we have proper statistics to guide the various organs that allocate resources in this country to ensure that whatever resources we allocate from the Equalization Fund, the CDF and other Funds are allocated using the correct statistics. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I conclude, I want to emphasize that we want a credible statistics bureau. Every time there is a Minister from a particular area heading the Ministry responsible for the Kenya National Bureau of Statistics (KNBS), you see the figures changing and appearing to favour the area from which the Minister comes. This raises concern. It would appear that the KNBS is not independent, and that it is not professional in the way it does its work. Therefore, I want to urge the House and the Committee that deals with matters to do with the KNBS to put in place mechanisms"
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"id": 454,
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"speaker": null,
"content": "41 Wednesday, 14th December, 2011(A)"
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"id": 455,
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"content": "for the House to countercheck the methodologies and the manner in which statistics are generated by the KNBS. With those few remarks, I beg to second the Motion."
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"id": 456,
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"speaker": null,
"content": "(Question proposed)"
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"id": 457,
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"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Maj-Gen. Nkaisserry",
"speaker_title": "The Assistant Minister, Ministry of State for Defence",
"speaker": {
"id": 192,
"legal_name": "Joseph Kasaine Ole Nkaissery",
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"content": " Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to begin by thanking the Mover of this very important Motion, because this Motion has come at an opportune time. You realise that at the beginning of this year, we had a big problem due to lopsided allocation of CDF money, because there was no credible national survey that was conducted, so that the national cake can be distributed equitably. Therefore, I would like to thank hon. Otichilo for bringing this very important Motion. I hope that the Minister to whom the Motion is directed is here to take notes, because this is a very serious issue and we want to begin on a proper footing."
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{
"id": 458,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/458/?format=api",
"text_counter": 458,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Maj-Gen. Nkaisserry",
"speaker_title": "The Assistant Minister, Ministry of State for Defence",
"speaker": {
"id": 192,
"legal_name": "Joseph Kasaine Ole Nkaissery",
"slug": "joseph-nkaissery"
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"content": "The Constitution, as quoted by the Mover of the Motion, says that the national revenue should be shared equitably among the counties. Even as we debate this Motion, the national Government should always take the lion’s share of the national revenues because the national Government is responsible for national security, education and other areas of importance to the survival of our nation."
},
{
"id": 459,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/459/?format=api",
"text_counter": 459,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Maj-Gen. Nkaisserry",
"speaker_title": "The Assistant Minister, Ministry of State for Defence",
"speaker": {
"id": 192,
"legal_name": "Joseph Kasaine Ole Nkaissery",
"slug": "joseph-nkaissery"
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"content": "Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you look at Articles 203 and 204, you will appreciate that the Mover’s intent in bringing this Motion to the House is to ensure that the Constitution is followed to the letter. This is very critical. In 2006 and 2007, we had some areas which were seriously affected by drought but during the financial year, those constituencies were given a raw deal. If we had a credible survey like the one envisaged by this Motion, that situation would not have arisen. It is very important that we take this country seriously, so that every Kenyan can have his or her rightful share of the national cake. Mr. Temporary Deputy Speaker, Sir, when you look at the pastoralists communities where I come from, they will lose 80 per cent of their livelihood. I am sure the same applies to some of your people, because I border your constituency and I know they are suffering. Those people lost over 80 per cent of their livelihood. If you cannot adjust so that the sharing of the national cake is equitably distributed, so that every citizen is affected equally, we will have a problem in running this country. The National Revenue Allocation Commission should be fully and adequately funded as indicated in the Motion, so that they can contact a credible national survey. This is to ensure that come next year when we move into the dispensation of county governments, then the National Assembly and the Senate will be in a position to say a particular constituency or ward requires so much for development. It should not be based on the 15 per cent because that is the minimum as indicated in the Constitution. We cannot say like what we are saying in the current CDF that we equalize the constituencies and then we give them a certain level. If a constituency is poor, it should get a much better or bigger percentage. I always wonder and I am not accusing the planners in the Ministry of Planning, National Development and Vision 2030, but how can we compare Starehe Constituency, for example, and North Horr? How can you compare the two? We do not need electricity,"
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"speaker": null,
"content": "42 Wednesday, 14th December, 2011(A)"
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