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{
"id": 973349,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/973349/?format=api",
"text_counter": 306,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. M. Kajwang",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13162,
"legal_name": "Moses Otieno Kajwang'",
"slug": "moses-otieno-kajwang"
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"content": "The Assets Recovery Agency is doing a job that is fairly commendable. The Judiciary has pronounced itself because it was at one time cited as an obstacle to assets recovery effort. The Court of Appeal cleared some of the issues that were murky in an earlier ruling when the EACC went to court seeking to recover assets from certain individuals. I support this Bill and the principle behind it. However, I believe that it can still benefit from additional input from different stakeholders. I do not know whether public participation has been done on this Bill. I believe that this Bill will benefit immensely from a properly structured public participation exercise. Let the public participation on this Bill not be similar to when we post a notice in the newspapers and then go to the Red Cross Building to sit and wait for whoever comes. I hope that the relevant Committee will write actively to stakeholders such as the Assets Recovery Agency, the Financial Reporting Centre and all the other relevant stakeholders. If possible, the relevant agencies should be summoned. I believe that on sensitive issues like this one, we should not just sit and hope that someone will come for public participation. The Committee can compel the production of witnesses or any stakeholder if we feel that it is going to add value to the legislative effort of this House. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those remarks, I beg to support the Bill."
},
{
"id": 973350,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/973350/?format=api",
"text_counter": 307,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "The Deputy Speaker",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): Thank you, Senator for Homa Bay County. I am assuming that since there is no other request, it is time for the Mover to reply. I call upon the Mover to reply."
},
{
"id": 973351,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/973351/?format=api",
"text_counter": 308,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "The Deputy Speaker",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate."
},
{
"id": 973352,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/973352/?format=api",
"text_counter": 309,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Farhiya",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13179,
"legal_name": "Farhiya Ali Haji",
"slug": "farhiya-ali-haji"
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"content": "Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank the Senators who have contributed to this Bill and made far-reaching recommendations. At the end of this debate, I will request the HANSARD team to print for me all the contributions that were made to this Bill, so that the Bill can be improved. I am open to improving the Bill. However, I do not want it to be diluted in such a way that it is not better than all the other Bills that we had. Corruption needs to be fought. This Bill will benefit even the corrupt. Corruption is rampant not only in the Government, but in private companies as well. I am shocked that the Kenya Private Sector Alliance (KEPSA) did not request to make amendments to this Bill. I hope that they will forward their amendments to this Bill because employees continue to steal from employers and do business with the stolen money. There is no end to corruption. Corruption keeps on mutating every other time. I once attended a conference where members of different boards were being inducted. An official from the EACC said that corruption keeps mutating. In reply, I told the EACC official that if they do not also mutate their ideas in such a way that they are ahead of the corrupt individuals, then the taxpayers are wasting their money on the EACC. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. for seconding this Bill. Other Senators who gave far-reaching recommendations are Sen. Pareno, Sen. Kang’ata, Sen. (Dr.) Musuruve, Sen. (Dr.) Milgo, Sen. (Dr.) Kabaka, Sen. (Dr.) Zani, Sen. Mugo, Sen. (Prof.) Ongeri, Sen. Omogeni, Sen. (Prof.) Kamar, Sen. Ochillo- Ayacko, Sen. Halake, the Senate Minority Leader,Sen. Orengo, Sen. Were, Sen. Wetangula and finally Sen. M. Kajwang. I welcome all the recommendations they made. One of the questions that was posed is: Since statutes cannot apply retrospectively, what ideas are there for people who were previously corrupt? I hope to receive recommendations from Members and stakeholders on what can be done to individuals who were previously corrupt. Recommendation was also made---"
},
{
"id": 973353,
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"text_counter": 310,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "The Deputy Speaker",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "(Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki): The Chair can assist you, Sen. Farhiya. You cannot have a statute suggesting penal sanctions applied retroactively. The lawyers say nulla poena sine lege. There are no two ways about it. You can only deal with the future. However, past corruption is still punishable under the law that was existing at the time of the corruption. At the time when that corruption took place, and there is no statute of limitations to say--- In some civil matters, you cannot punish something that has happened in a certain period. For crimes, you can even punish a crime that occurred in 1963, but using the law that was in force at that time, and not the law that we are making now."
},
{
"id": 973354,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/973354/?format=api",
"text_counter": 311,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "The Deputy Speaker",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "I hope that helps you."
},
{
"id": 973355,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/973355/?format=api",
"text_counter": 312,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Farhiya",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13179,
"legal_name": "Farhiya Ali Haji",
"slug": "farhiya-ali-haji"
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"content": "Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. That helps very much. I will not waste time asking people to make the correct amendments."
},
{
"id": 973356,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/973356/?format=api",
"text_counter": 313,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Farhiya",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13179,
"legal_name": "Farhiya Ali Haji",
"slug": "farhiya-ali-haji"
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"content": "The other thing was around the second section of this law, which is, deferred prosecution agreement. Some people said that it would be better if the plea bargaining should have been taken care of. However, I think these procedures are more detailed and finance oriented. So many countries have used the kind of deferred laws that I am talking about. Some of them are the United States of America (USA), United Kingdom (UK),"
},
{
"id": 973357,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/973357/?format=api",
"text_counter": 314,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Farhiya",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13179,
"legal_name": "Farhiya Ali Haji",
"slug": "farhiya-ali-haji"
},
"content": "The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor, Senate."
},
{
"id": 973358,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/973358/?format=api",
"text_counter": 315,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Sen. Farhiya",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": {
"id": 13179,
"legal_name": "Farhiya Ali Haji",
"slug": "farhiya-ali-haji"
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"content": "Singapore, Canada and Australia. They have similar laws in terms of deferred agreements."
}
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}