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{
"id": 973619,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/973619/?format=api",
"text_counter": 167,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Suba South, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. John Mbadi",
"speaker": {
"id": 110,
"legal_name": "John Mbadi Ng'ong'o",
"slug": "john-mbadi"
},
"content": " Hon. Chairman, this is really a sad afternoon in my view for this House. The presidential power to assent and return Bills was given to the President to exercise with a lot of caution."
},
{
"id": 973620,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/973620/?format=api",
"text_counter": 168,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Suba South, ODM",
"speaker_title": "Hon. John Mbadi",
"speaker": {
"id": 110,
"legal_name": "John Mbadi Ng'ong'o",
"slug": "john-mbadi"
},
"content": "This amendment that was proposed by Hon. Waititu was very good. If someone borrows money and asks you to guarantee that money then they fail to pay, the procedure should be that all your property should be exhausted first, then go to the guarantor. I know there is very little we can do because we require 233 votes but, the people of Kenya need to look again at this provision in the Constitution giving the President too much powers that we require two thirds to override the recommendation of the President. It gives the President absolute powers to legislate. In fact, the President can just bring a very weak Bill and we make amendments. It goes to the State House, they re-do the entire Bill and bring it back. If you fail to raise the numbers, it becomes a law. I do not think that is what the people of Kenya intended with this provision in the Constitution. I oppose. There is little we can do but, I have to go on record that I am opposing the President’s recommendations."
},
{
"id": 973621,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/973621/?format=api",
"text_counter": 169,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Chairman",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "I see the Chairman, Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs."
},
{
"id": 973622,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/973622/?format=api",
"text_counter": 170,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Baringo North, JP",
"speaker_title": "Hon. William Cheptumo",
"speaker": {
"id": 50,
"legal_name": "William Cheptumo Kipkiror",
"slug": "william-kipkiror"
},
"content": " Thank you Hon. Chairman. I oppose the Memorandum by the President. The essence of this amendment seeks to provide that in case of default by the principle borrower, then the bank or the creditor should first realise the assets of the borrower before you pursue the guarantor. Kenyans have suffered under this law. What has been happening is that banks, upon default by a borrower, do not bother to follow the borrower but, instead, they pursue the assets of the guarantor. That is the position in our law today. So, this amendment was to protect the interest of guarantors from those borrowers who have assets and, sometimes, conspire with creditors to defeat the realisation of their property."
},
{
"id": 973623,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/973623/?format=api",
"text_counter": 171,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Baringo North, JP",
"speaker_title": "Hon. William Cheptumo",
"speaker": {
"id": 50,
"legal_name": "William Cheptumo Kipkiror",
"slug": "william-kipkiror"
},
"content": "Therefore, I stand to oppose to protect the long-suffering guarantors from SACCOs and banks. Guarantors should be protected from malicious principal debtors who are able to pay their debts, but collude with creditors who then do not demand repayment from the principle debtor. Hon. Chairman, what is happening in this country…"
},
{
"id": 973624,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/973624/?format=api",
"text_counter": 172,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Chairman",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Hon. Cheptumo, you will have to summarise because you have given your reason."
},
{
"id": 973625,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/973625/?format=api",
"text_counter": 173,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Baringo North, JP",
"speaker_title": "Hon. William Cheptumo",
"speaker": {
"id": 50,
"legal_name": "William Cheptumo Kipkiror",
"slug": "william-kipkiror"
},
"content": " I am finishing, Hon. Chairman. We even went ahead to benchmark in other jurisdictions. In Australia, before you pursue the guarantor, you pursue the principal borrower. That is the situation in Australia. This law, indeed, was meant to protect the guarantors who actually genuinely guarantee loans for principal borrowers. It is a justifiable amendment which we need to support."
},
{
"id": 973626,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/973626/?format=api",
"text_counter": 174,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Hon. Chairman.",
"speaker_title": "",
"speaker": null,
"content": "Next is Hon. Milemba. Please, let us be brief if other Members must also speak."
},
{
"id": 973627,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/973627/?format=api",
"text_counter": 175,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Emuhaya, ANC",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Omboko Milemba",
"speaker": {
"id": 13328,
"legal_name": "Jeremiah Omboko Milemba",
"slug": "jeremiah-omboko-milemba"
},
"content": " I will be very brief, Hon. Chairman. This is actually another sad moment because the amendment brought to us is actually supposed to The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposes only. Acertified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor."
},
{
"id": 973628,
"url": "https://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/973628/?format=api",
"text_counter": 176,
"type": "speech",
"speaker_name": "Emuhaya, ANC",
"speaker_title": "Hon. Omboko Milemba",
"speaker": {
"id": 13328,
"legal_name": "Jeremiah Omboko Milemba",
"slug": "jeremiah-omboko-milemba"
},
"content": "protect the large populace of Kenyans who act as guarantors. It is not limiting in any way the space for business. All it is doing is to ensure that the assets of the principal borrower are exhausted before a lender goes after the guarantor’s assets. Unfortunately, it has gone the way of Article 115 of the Constitution, which gives power to the President to possibly oversee Parliament whenever it has flaws and excesses. Unfortunately, those powers are now being used to actually make laws. As I conclude, like one speaker said, this is a gap that Parliament must take care of because the President can now make any law. It is a matter of creating a weak law. A Bill goes to him for assent and he simply rewrites it and brings it back to Parliament. We do not get the two- thirds. We are actually surrendering the powers of Parliament. With those remarks, I beg to oppose."
}
]
}