{"count":1608389,"next":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=json&page=138576","previous":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=json&page=138574","results":[{"id":1402161,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402161/?format=json","text_counter":230,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Sifuna","speaker_title":"","speaker":{"id":13599,"legal_name":"Sifuna Edwin Watenya","slug":"sifuna-edwin-watenya"},"content":"office for them to go. If they decide to go and listen to Reggae the whole day at Aluta, who are you to judge that person and say that this is something that is evil and should be stopped? We need to end the hypocrisy in these things. Let us address the underlying socioeconomic issues first. This is because a person who is meaningfully employed such as Commissioner Sen. Korir there has a full diary is full from the morning to evening, 24 hours a day, seven days a week and 365 days. If we factor in the difficult travel schedule, she has no time to engage in some of these things. She cannot be seen at Aluta because she has work to do. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let us focus on the socioeconomic issues and we can then talk about all the issues. I thank you for the opportunity to contribute."},{"id":1402162,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402162/?format=json","text_counter":231,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Kathuri","speaker_title":"The Deputy Speaker","speaker":{"id":13590,"legal_name":"Murungi Kathuri","slug":"murungi-kathuri"},"content":" Hon. Senators, as we contribute to this Bill this evening, there will be many youth watching the game between Arsenal and Bayern Munich. Arsenal has the biggest fan base and, therefore, you might be addressing people who might kill themselves when teams lose. If the whole afternoon the Senate will be talking about Arsenal losing, then we will be talking to the youth out there in a negative way. Senators, avoid giving examples to that specific match because of our youth out there are waiting for the game this evening. Sen. Joe Nyutu, I can see you are not ready for this, but you are on top of the list. Sen. Orwoba?"},{"id":1402163,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402163/?format=json","text_counter":232,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Orwoba","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity to support this Bill. I take note that the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare went through this Bill and gave a report on it. I had the opportunity to interact with some of the issues that were highlighted by the stakeholders who are affected by the repealing of the Gambling Act, which is getting replaced by this Bill. When we were talking to the stakeholders,which are the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA), the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) and the Sports Funds - all these institutions that would be affected directly by this Bill - one thing that came out clearly is that there is, in fact, too much money in gambling. This is to an extent that it was an issue of deciding what percentage of the levy would go to which institution. A clear example of this is that we had members of the Sports Fund coming in to say that there was a section of the new Bill that took away more than Kshs16 billion from the Sports Fund. Earlier on, levies would be collected and a big percentage of them would go to the Sports Fund, so as to facilitate the activities that the Sports Fund had. They included sporting activities, supporting artists and our young athletes. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there was an oversight when this Bill was being drafted and they forgot to include the percentage that should still remain in the Sports Fund. When the Sports Fund appeared before the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare, they explained this. Yes, that money was generated from sports, but it was generated from gambling mainly within the sporting activities and that is why it was easy to justify that money should be pumped back into the Sports Fund. My question then was, if we The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."},{"id":1402164,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402164/?format=json","text_counter":233,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Orwoba","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"were to ban gambling in this country, would we also fold the Sports Fund because 90 percent of the whole Sports Fund budget comes from gambling? What would that mean for the athletes and the sporting activities that rely heavily on gambling? I know it is a chicken-and-egg issue, but it was imperative for me to understand that above and beyond relying on gambling money to support sporting activities, but we need to think as a country beyond that. We need to start thinking of income generating activities around that industry. For instance, look at what some of our notable runners are doing – opening training facilities and camps and turning them into a sports tourism kind of economic activity. I asked the stakeholders if absence of gambling they were going to fold up those institutions. I have heard Sen. Sifuna referencing that we should not regulate, that we are too much on rules and people should be left to be free. No! There is an extremely thin line between an organized society that is responsible for its people and anarchy. Therefore, when we are legislating, we are not legislating because we want to get into people’s houses to control them, but because there is a fact here that gambling is destroying our communities. Gambling is the source of so many ill activities and so much sorrow. In so many households, women are literally having to deal with not only the issue of their spouses having substance abuse, but gambling. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as responsible legislators, we are not entering the private spaces of people to control who and what they believe in, but what we are doing is we want to be responsible leaders to ensure that even within our freedoms we are still able to safeguard, for instance, our children. I am glad that Senator Karen Nyamu has stood up to clarify that her Bill and even the Motion that we were discussing here on Aluta Sunday has nothing to do with adults, but everything to do with parents parenting and ensuring that our children have safe spaces. Any person who is under the age of 18 years does not have the capacity to make decisions to a certain extent, as much as they think they do. That is why we always say they need to have guardians, parents or someone who is responsible for them. If you are earning money and want to spend all of it on gambling, you might wonder; who are we, as leaders, to come in and say ‘yes’ or ‘no.’ Yes, it is your freedom, but we are ensuring that within this space of gambling, there has to be some order in that disorder. If you ask me, gambling is a disorder. We all have rights and freedoms. So, how then can we ensure that we are responsibly safeguarding the lives of citizens in this disorder? To hear that a youthful Kenyan has committed suicide because they have lost a little bit more than Kshs100,000 on gambling, that in itself should touch the minds and the souls of the Senators in this House, so that they understand that as much as we are adults, some of us still need to be guided. That is why within a county, we still elect a governor to be able to lead the people. We still elect a Senator to be able to lead the people. Otherwise, we would also say all these people are adults, they can lead themselves. I strongly believe that this Bill is very timely and above and beyond the issue of organizing the taxes that are being collected on gambling, it is an issue of trying to direct a society back into the moral path that we need to be in. When I say moral path, I am not talking about religion or biases. I am talking about some level of financial management The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."},{"id":1402165,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402165/?format=json","text_counter":234,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Orwoba","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"within our homes. There are a lot of women and men who are literally sinking the family unit because of gambling. Some children are being thrown out of schools because their parents have gambled the last coin. There are women are literally holding on to their last coin because their spouses have gambled everything. You are talking about the match tonight between Arsenal who? I am not a football--- Some people would rather say tonight, my family does not need to eat meat because with this Kshs250 I want to place a bet. In all fairness, this has nothing to do with controlling people and the decisions they make regarding what they want to do and everything they want to do. This has everything to do with the responsibility of us leaders in ensuring that our communities are not washed away by the ills of gambling. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we had this conversation with the Sports Fund after I questioned them because they were fighting for Kshs16 billion to be maintained within the Fund. You know 3 per cent of the levies that are collected will go towards the gambling authority. That 3 per cent will cater for the administrative and logistics of running that authority. The remaining amount of money, if you go through the Bill, will be channeled to various places. Among them, the person that gets the lion's share is the Sports Fund, if we get that amendment passed. Then asked a question to Sports Fund: What is your mandate? Their mandate is to cater for sporting activities because it is an independent state agency, but above and beyond that, they have some level of responsibility to push the creative economy. There was a kind of discussion like, yes, you know our athletes. I said you are talking about athletes, what about the creative economy because you have a mandate within that institution to take care of singers, filmmakers and all these people in the creative economy? I could tell from even CS Ababu Namwamba's response that the creative economy was not really prioritized; it was more about football. I remember Sen. Crystal Asige being in that meeting saying it is very unfortunate that the misrepresentation of even the leadership in the various spaces is causing us to forget repeatedly about the creative economy and how we are going to conserve our cultural activities. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you know after the Bill is passed, regulations anchored to the Bill will be tabled. One of the regulations that I would want to see and which I am going to push for is that from that Kshs16 billion plus, 50 per cent of that money should be directed to the creative economy. It is not fair that everyday in and out, we are talking about football. When talking about sporting activities, you are still leaning towards one bias, which is football. I am happy that the Committee adopted the proposed amendment to ensure that the fund that was going to sports would still be maintained and go to the Sports Fund. The next step would be to ensure that the regulations that will be anchored to this Bill will push for 50 per cent of the Kshs16 billion to go to the creative economy and in that sense then, we will be able to have some preservation of our culture through this ill that we are choosing to legislate called gambling. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."},{"id":1402166,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402166/?format=json","text_counter":235,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Orwoba","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there was an issue earlier on about all these betting companies finding very many creative ways to avoid paying taxes. The first creative way was that they would say once we are done with all our gambling for the month, we will sit down, see the money that we have made, report and pay our taxes. An imperative question was asked. If a person is betting Kshs50 on a game tonight, why do you, as a betting company, have to wait until the end of the month to pay your 16 or 3 per cent levy? There was absolutely no reason. I am glad that this Bill is now addressing that. When you pay Kshs50, the money that hits the betting company account is the money that they need to get, but the taxes go directly to the tax collector. In that sense then, we are not having any arguments towards the end of the month saying that you made Kshs3 billion, yet you are only paying taxes amounting to this much. It becomes a very fair and easy calculation because truly if the taxman is asking for 3 per cent, then it is 3 per cent of the Kshs50 that I am betting. In essence, that money should not be stored with that betting company, but should go directly to the tax collector. This will ensure that as much as we are now accepting this ill called gambling, our economy can also benefit from the income that is coming from it. It makes work very easy for the tax authority, who do not have to sit down at the end of the month to follow on people and everything. That is one of the other reasons I am supporting this Bill. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there was an issue of the authorities who are going to enforce the activities that are governing this Bill. For instance, you would have all these City County or Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) agents coming in, shutting you down and then confiscating your machines or equipment. There was never really any legislation about what happens when you take my machines because sometimes that machine has my personal data as a client. So, you will find that an authority would come in, sweep the house, take all the machines and then you are involved in these negotiations between do I have a licence and have I been authorized? In the meantime, that machine that has the data of the end user is sitting somewhere very vulnerable to data trading. So, when I read some of the proposals that are there and how they would handle issues around the confiscation of these machines, I thought we need also that to be organized because sometimes even the machines that are confiscated, the authorities end up selling them. It thus becomes a whole other array of many things. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in conclusion, interrogating this Bill got me to learn a lot about the money that is made in gambling, how the money is handled, and how we can do better. I am also very excited that there will be a percentage of the income of the taxes that will be channeled towards rehabilitation of our young people and the addicts of gambling. We will ensure that it is anchored in the regulations. At the end of the day, some level of responsibility has to be taken by these same companies in terms of rehabilitating people who are completely addicted to gambling. With those few remarks, I support this Bill. I look forward to seeing the regulations being tabled at my Committee on Delegated Legislation."},{"id":1402167,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402167/?format=json","text_counter":236,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Kathuri","speaker_title":"The Deputy Speaker","speaker":{"id":13590,"legal_name":"Murungi Kathuri","slug":"murungi-kathuri"},"content":" Next, is the Deputy Minority Leader, Sen. Wambua Enoch. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."},{"id":1402168,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402168/?format=json","text_counter":237,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Wambua","speaker_title":"","speaker":{"id":13199,"legal_name":"Enoch Kiio Wambua","slug":"enoch-kiio-wambua"},"content":"Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I thank you for the opportunity to contribute to the Gambling Control Bill (National Assembly Bills No.70 of 2023); a Government Bill from the National Assembly. Before I go to the contents of the Bill, allow me to say that gambling has become a near menace in this country. Both young people and adults are losing money in billions to briefcase gamblers and institutions that you cannot even trace where they have come from. From the onset, I am pleased that, at least, there is an attempt to bring order into this messy industry. I will limit my comments to this Bill to three parts including Part II, Part III, and Part IV of the Bill. I begin by saying that in many cases where we are dealing with shared functions between the national Government and the county governments, the role of the national Government is largely limited to setting standards and policies. We are the House mandated by the Constitution to defend devolution and to protect the interests of counties and their governments. In this National Assembly Bill, I do not see the protection of devolved units in Part II of this Bill. I say this because the licensing of businesses and gambling activities is made a reserve of the national Government by this Bill. The only role of the county government in receiving money from people who set up gambling houses only make their money from issuing permits to business premises. As a House that is responsible for fighting for devolution, one of the biggest conversations that we should be having is how to open up revenue streams for county governments. This Bill does not open that stream. It makes a very big river of a revenue stream for the national Government through the issuance of licenses to gambling activities and provides a very small stream to county governments through just the issuance of permits for premises. This is a matter that when it comes to Third Reading, we should propose amendments. This is because the bulk of this will be happening in towns and counties. This is an opportunity for counties to issue licenses for businesses, not just permits for the business premises. I say this because my view, and I believe that was the view of the drafters of the Constitution 2010, is that progressively, county governments are supposed to collect more own-source-revenue and rely less on the Exchequer releases from the national Government. When we get to Third Reading, as I said, we will be proposing amendments to right that wrong. While at it, I remember that I had made a legislative proposal on the separation of the National Treasury and Planning from the Ministry of Finance. Some of these things will be addressed if we actualize our thinking on how we separate those operations between the National Treasury and Planning and the Ministry of Finance. Without urging Members and colleagues to go slow on a Bill like this, as a leader in this House, at times I wonder why is it that when we receive Bills from the National Assembly, we are in so much in a hurry to process and pass them, yet when we send Bills to the National Assembly for concurrence, they take forever to process, if they ever do. I think a time is coming, and perhaps now is when we should pay back in the same currency. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."},{"id":1402169,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402169/?format=json","text_counter":238,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Wambua","speaker_title":"","speaker":{"id":13199,"legal_name":"Enoch Kiio Wambua","slug":"enoch-kiio-wambua"},"content":"Part III of the Bill speaks to the Gambling Regulatory Authority (GRA). I have my issues with that section because of two things. One, what we normally do when we legislate and create authorities, is a problem that we have inherited from perhaps a level of laziness. I do not know on whose part. Every time that we create an authority or a board, we are very quick to do a copy and paste exercise to determine who the members of the board are. Traditionally, we always put in there a Principal Secretary of the Ministry responsible, a Principal Secretary for Finance, and the Attorney- General. I think we must expand our thinking beyond that traditional way of doing things. You will find that a Principal Secretary is a member of 10 or 20 boards. They never get to attend meetings. Of course, some representatives are designated, but the real impact and contribution of those Principal Secretaries in those boards is never felt. Why can we not move away from that tradition? Why can we not get people who are competent to sit on boards and add value to those boards? It is the same thing that I have seen with boards that we create and it is repeated here that the headquarters of the authority will be in Nairobi. What is the magic in placing the headquarters of this authority in Nairobi? We must wake up and realize that that used to happen when Nairobi was the only City in this country. Today, we have Kisumu, Mombasa and Nakuru cities. The designation of a town into a city is not just for purposes of name. It is also for purposes of certain activities happening in those cities. Why should we concentrate all the boards and authorities in Nairobi and none in other cities like Mombasa, Nakuru and Kisumu? What is the magic of having this board in Nairobi? I challenge Senators who fought very hard to have their towns elevated to city status to also push an agenda to have some of these authorities go and sit in those cities. There is nothing wrong with that and there is no magic in a board sitting in Nairobi. Lastly is on the issue of issuance of licenses and permits. I have looked at Part IV of the Bill, which deals with licensing and issuance of permits. As we give authority to the authority to determine who can get a permit and who cannot and who can get a license and who cannot, I hope we will not be jumping from the frying pan into the fire. I hope this will not be another avenue for serious corruption in this country when it comes to issuance of licenses and permits. I am saying that because Clause 29 of the Bill states that no individual person can be issued with a license. It means you must be a limited company and have an account registered in the name of the limited company. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in this day and age and this country, the easiest thing to do is to register a limited company. I can wake up one morning and by the end of the day, I will have registered a limited company. The easiest thing to do in this country is to open a bank account. Banks are now hawking bank accounts. Anybody can open a bank account under any name. There is need for proper tightening of Part IV of this Bill to ensure that the procedure for licensing and issuance of permits for gambling does not open an avenue for corruption and extortion of people who would want to set up genuine and legitimate gambling businesses. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."},{"id":1402170,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1402170/?format=json","text_counter":239,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Wambua","speaker_title":"","speaker":{"id":13199,"legal_name":"Enoch Kiio Wambua","slug":"enoch-kiio-wambua"},"content":"Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I support. I will wait for the Third Reading to propose amendments."}]}