{"count":1608389,"next":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=json&page=139762","previous":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=json&page=139760","results":[{"id":1414021,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1414021/?format=json","text_counter":61,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Kikuyu, UDA","speaker_title":"Hon. Kimani Ichung'wah","speaker":null,"content":" Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for giving me the opportunity. I want to agree with what all the contributors to the statement have said: that, indeed, our doctors are valued and that many of us depend on them. However, it should not be lost to us that just a decade ago, this country would only produce an average of 300 doctors from our two public universities that were churning out medical graduates. But today, courtesy of the huge investments that we have made as a country in our education system, we are able to churn out an average of 1,500 intern doctors annually. Hon. Speaker, that means that the interns who would have been taken in in five years are expected to be taken in annually. I am saying that to draw the picture to Kenyans of the kind of resources required and to also put into perspective the demands by our good doctors today; they are to be interned at an average of about Ksh206,000 or Ksh207,000. I have listened to this debate in the public domain and the media, and what our doctors are being told is that it is possible to pay Ksh206,000 to intern doctors but take up fewer interns than those who are graduating. This year alone, a total of 1,210 intern doctors are being enlisted at a cost of Ksh2.4 billion within the resource envelope already allocated by this House. Therefore, it is foolhardy for us to speak to the gallery and excite doctors at the gates of Parliament; but it is another thing when we come to budget and make sure that we have adequate resources. The said resources do not come from the moon but from taxes raised by Kenyans, which, again, the same people pontificating about how well we should treat our doctors are the same ones who were at the forefront in opposing the Finance Bill that was supposed to raise taxes to pay these doctors. Hon. Speaker, it may not be possible to pay Ksh206,000 to the interns. I agree with the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Health, Hon. (Dr) Pukose, that just like interns in other professions, like engineers who are supposed to work under engineers for two years, lawyers, like many of us, including the Leader of Minority Party... I do not know if he has finished his pupillage. When he is under pupillage, he earns a mere Ksh25,000. I am informed that in some law firms, lawyers do not even earn anything. Those who are under pupillage…"},{"id":1414022,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1414022/?format=json","text_counter":62,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Hon. Speaker","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"In law, there is no obligation to pay a pupillage student."},{"id":1414023,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1414023/?format=json","text_counter":63,"type":"scene","speaker_name":"","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"(Laughter)"},{"id":1414024,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1414024/?format=json","text_counter":64,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Kikuyu, UDA","speaker_title":"Hon. Kimani Ichung'wah","speaker":null,"content":" Hon. Speaker, I will take your word because you have run an accomplished law firm. As you say, there is no obligation to pay intern lawyers under pupillage. Therefore, for doctors to earn what they are earning today is a privilege. They are amongst the most privileged professionals in our country. Hon. Speaker, beyond their internship, which is mandatory…"},{"id":1414025,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1414025/?format=json","text_counter":65,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Embakasi West, JP","speaker_title":"Hon. Mark Mwenje","speaker":{"id":1429,"legal_name":"George Theuri","slug":"george-theuri"},"content":" On a point of order, Hon. Speaker."},{"id":1414026,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1414026/?format=json","text_counter":66,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Hon. Speaker","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"There is a point of order, Leader of Majority Party. Hon. Mwenje."},{"id":1414027,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1414027/?format=json","text_counter":67,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Embakasi West, JP","speaker_title":"Hon. Mark Mwenje","speaker":{"id":1429,"legal_name":"George Theuri","slug":"george-theuri"},"content":" Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I rise under Standing Order 1. Is it in order for the Leader of the Majority Party to compare a pupil who is not qualified to practice, who does not even appear in court, which is the opposite of intern doctors who actually prescribe medicine? They treat people out there. Is he in order to compare those two professions? I am a lawyer, and I understand what I went through as a pupil, but that is very different from intern doctors. The electronic version of the Official Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Hansard Editor"},{"id":1414028,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1414028/?format=json","text_counter":68,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Embakasi West, JP","speaker_title":"Hon. Mark Mwenje","speaker":{"id":1429,"legal_name":"George Theuri","slug":"george-theuri"},"content":"Thank you, Hon. Speaker."},{"id":1414029,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1414029/?format=json","text_counter":69,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Hon. Speaker","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"Hon. Mwenje, if you listened to Dr. Pukose's very clear explanation, there is no difference. When I was a master of Hon. Soipan, Hon. Kindiki, and many others, they were obligated to show gratitude, and that is all, but I am not saying it is applicable to doctors because I do not want to wade into that. The Leader of the Majority Party is on the Floor; I will give you a chance."},{"id":1414030,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1414030/?format=json","text_counter":70,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Kikuyu, UDA","speaker_title":"Hon. Kimani Ichung'wah","speaker":null,"content":" Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Let me not respond because you have responded to Hon. Mwenje, who claims to be a lawyer. The lawyer I know behind me, Hon. Njeri, tells me that she would earn Ksh12,000 as a pupillage lawyer; that is why I said that this internship programme could be likened to that two-year pupillage for lawyers and the two-year post-graduate training practice for architects and engineers. All these professions do not earn the quantum that our doctors are speaking about. When these doctors qualify after working under the supervision of qualified consultants and doctors, they join the public service at a grade higher than all other professionals, and those are facts. That means that they earn more, but it must also not be lost to the country that our intern doctors are making a critical point about and speaking to the architecture of our Constitution. Our doctors have demanded the establishment of a Health Services Commission for a long time. The reason the intern doctors feel mistreated is because they are being overworked in our county government establishments. The day we opted in 2010 to fully devolve our health services, we did a great injustice to them, not just to the medical professionals but also to the people of Kenya"}]}