{"count":1608389,"next":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=json&page=147674","previous":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=json&page=147672","results":[{"id":1494922,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1494922/?format=json","text_counter":48,"type":"heading","speaker_name":"","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"THE COUNTY PUBLIC FINANCE LAWS (AMENDMENT) BILL (SENATE BILLS NO.39 OF 2023)"},{"id":1494923,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1494923/?format=json","text_counter":49,"type":"scene","speaker_name":"","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"(Sen. Cheruiyot on 29.10.2024)"},{"id":1494924,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1494924/?format=json","text_counter":50,"type":"scene","speaker_name":"","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"(Resumption of debate interrupted on 30.10.2024 – Afternoon Sitting)"},{"id":1494925,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1494925/?format=json","text_counter":51,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Hon. Kingi","speaker_title":"The Speaker","speaker":null,"content":" When debate was interrupted, Sen. Veronica Maina had the Floor and she had a balance of 14 minutes. She is not in the House. Therefore, the Floor is open, hon. Senators. My screen has issues. Clerk, just speak so that I can be able to pick on hon. Senators wishing to contribute."},{"id":1494926,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1494926/?format=json","text_counter":52,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Osotsi","speaker_title":"","speaker":{"id":13588,"legal_name":"Osotsi Godfrey Otieno","slug":"osotsi-godfrey-otieno"},"content":"Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to start by saying that I fully support these long overdue amendments to the county public finance laws that will give the county assemblies autonomy. County assemblies play a very important role in primary oversight. Currently, they are experiencing a lot of challenges in performing their mandate due to lack of financial autonomy. This Bill by the Deputy Speaker, who is also the Senator for Meru County, is timely because our county assemblies will have some level of financial independence. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."},{"id":1494927,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1494927/?format=json","text_counter":53,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Osotsi","speaker_title":"","speaker":{"id":13588,"legal_name":"Osotsi Godfrey Otieno","slug":"osotsi-godfrey-otieno"},"content":"Currently, they depend on the county executive for their funding yet there are multiple delays. The first is occasioned by the National Treasury which delays to release funds to the counties. The county executive further creates a delay which hampers the performance of the county assemblies. Mr. Speaker, Sir, if there are elected people in this country who suffer a lot then it is the MCAs. They stay in the villages with the people, wake up in the morning with the people and go to sleep with them. We are lucky, as Senators and Members of the National Assembly, because we are in Nairobi most of the time and only go home over the weekend. The MCAs are at home all the time which means that there is more pressure on them, especially financial pressure. That challenge is further enhanced by lack of autonomy which means delays in the payment of their salaries. This Bill is timely because it will create a new fund called the County Assembly Fund which will now be administered by the respective county assembly. To a large extent, this will resolve the delays that have been experienced at the county assemblies. This Bill under Clause 6 empowers the clerk of the county assembly to be the administrator of this Fund. This will further enhance the independence of the county assembly because at the moment, the clerk has no powers on matters to do with finances at the county executive. This Bill will now give the clerk the powers and he is answerable to the County Assembly Service Board (CASB). Clause 6(7) talks about the role of administrator in seeking approvals from the Controller of Budget (COB) before withdrawing money from the county assembly's fund under the authority. I know that last time when Members were contributing on this Motion, they had issues with inefficiencies and further delays at the office of the CoB. Mr. Speaker, Sir something has to be done at the Office of the Controller of the Budget (CoB). I agree with the Members who said it is a high time that (CoB) is devolved properly to the counties so that we do not have a situation where people come to stay in Nairobi for weeks looking for approvals from the CoB and therefore this opens another channel for corruption. We hear that people have to greet others very well for them to receive their approvals. We therefore need to do something. In fact, this whole process of CoB should be automated. I do not understand why in these modern days, people are still moving around with documents from counties to come to the CoB for the documents to be reviewed before the approval for the expenditure is done. This process can be automated so that we do not have a scenario where counties are delayed to access their money because of waiting for approvals at the Office of the CoB. I have also noticed that under Clause 6 (10), there is a proposal that- “Any unutilised balances in the County Assembly Fund shall not lapse at the end of the financial year but shall be retained for the purposes for which it was established.” Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is very progressive because the current scenario is that when county assemblies are unable to spend the money, it is swept back to the County Revenue Fund (CRF). However, in this case, the funds will be there to be rolled to the next financial year. This further enhances the financial position of our county assemblies. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."},{"id":1494928,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1494928/?format=json","text_counter":54,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Osotsi","speaker_title":"","speaker":{"id":13588,"legal_name":"Osotsi Godfrey Otieno","slug":"osotsi-godfrey-otieno"},"content":"I do not know whether the proposer of this Bill has checked on Clause 11, which says- “Financial reports shall be submitted to the Commission on Revenue Allocation with a copy to the Controller of Budget.” Maybe it wanted to refer to the office of the Auditor-General (OAG) because I do not see the role of the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) in this case. Matters of financial reports are handled by the OAG. Maybe, the Deputy Speaker, you can look at that. That, to me, seems to be an error. If we go to the issue of disbursement contained in Subsection 109E (1) it says- “The County Treasury shall, at the beginning of every month, and in any event not later than the fifteenth day from the commencement of the month, disburse monies to the County Assembly Fund for the expenditure of the following month. I heard colleagues had an issue with this particular provision. However, this is in line with the Public Finance Management (PFM) Act. Where I have a problem, is the subsection 2 of that Clause which says- “The disbursement referred to in subsection (1) shall be done in accordance with a schedule prepared by the County Treasury and submitted to the County Assembly for approval together with the County Appropriation Bill under section 129(7)”. This needs to be looked at so that we do not bog down county assemblies on matters of disbursement schedule which is never adhered to. Even here in this House, we pass this Schedule, but no one bothers to follow it. Our counties, for example, are currently running without the disbursement for August, September and October. So, we need to enhance this issue of disbursement so that it should be disbursed strictly in compliance with the schedule that has been passed. Otherwise, there would be no need of passing this Schedule. Clause 7, Section 119A says- “The Controller of Budget shall have viewer rights access to all bank accounts maintained by the county executive, the county assembly and all other county government entities.” This is very progressive. How I wish that the same can be done to the PFM Act so that the CoB does not just approve expenditure, but he or she has access to the expenditures as indicated in the bank accounts. What counties do is seeking approval, make requisitions and then once approval has been given, they pay other things. That is what is called diversion of funds. This particular provision, if implemented, it will enhance accountabilities of the monies that have been sent to our county assemblies. However, the PFM Act should also be amended so that the CoB has access to the bank accounts of these counties so that it can know how monies are being used. We will be able to know whether there is any diversion of funds to other things, which is a common practise in our counties. This Bill is very progressive. This Bill is long overdue, and I thank the Deputy Speaker for sponsoring it. We cannot continue seeing our Members of County Assemblies (MCAs) suffering. When we go to the village, we see these leaders living in The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."},{"id":1494929,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1494929/?format=json","text_counter":55,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Osotsi","speaker_title":"","speaker":{"id":13588,"legal_name":"Osotsi Godfrey Otieno","slug":"osotsi-godfrey-otieno"},"content":"abject poverty and we are doing nothing about it. However, this time, Senate has done something about this. Even as we pass this Bill---"},{"id":1494930,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1494930/?format=json","text_counter":56,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale","speaker_title":"","speaker":{"id":170,"legal_name":"Bonny Khalwale","slug":"bonny-khalwale"},"content":"On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir."},{"id":1494931,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1494931/?format=json","text_counter":57,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Hon. Kingi","speaker_title":"The Speaker","speaker":null,"content":" What is your point of order, Senator Boni?"}]}