{"count":1608389,"next":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=json&page=148444","previous":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=json&page=148442","results":[{"id":1502622,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1502622/?format=json","text_counter":54,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mungatana, MGH","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first, I take this opportunity---"},{"id":1502623,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1502623/?format=json","text_counter":55,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Kathuri","speaker_title":"The Deputy Speaker","speaker":{"id":13590,"legal_name":"Murungi Kathuri","slug":"murungi-kathuri"},"content":" I beg your pardon. Can you kindly start again maybe there was some miscommunication?"},{"id":1502624,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1502624/?format=json","text_counter":56,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mungatana, MGH","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I indicated to the House that I am standing in for the Vice-Chairman of the Mediation Committee on the Division of Revenue (Amendment) Bill 2024, (National Assembly Bills No.38 of 2024). Before I move the Motion, I wanted to take this opportunity to thank the Committee Members, in particular, I want to thank---"},{"id":1502625,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1502625/?format=json","text_counter":57,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Kathuri","speaker_title":"The Deputy Speaker","speaker":{"id":13590,"legal_name":"Murungi Kathuri","slug":"murungi-kathuri"},"content":" Sorry, Sen. Mungatana, can you kindly read the content on the Motion that the Senate adopts the report, then you continue to give your comment? You must move the Motion."},{"id":1502626,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1502626/?format=json","text_counter":58,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mungatana, MGH","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move- THAT, the Senate adopts the Report of the Mediation Committee on the Division of Revenue (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bills No. 38 of 2024), laid on the table of the Senate on Tuesday, 26th November, 2024 and further that pursuant to Article 113 (2) of the Constitution and Standing Order No.167 (3) of the Senate, approves the mediated version of the Bill. First, I register my sincere thanks to the Members of the Committee, who took time to mediate and give us a version of the Bill that can be adopted by both Houses. I single out the leadership of Sen. Capt. Ali Ibrahim Roba as the co-chairperson on the side of the Senate and Hon. Ndindi Nyoro as the co-chairperson on the side of the National Assembly. I also single out the Members who participated in this mediation effort. We had Sen. Sifuna, Hon. Mary Amase, Sen. Julius Murgor, Hon. Chikati, Sen. Faki, Hon. Makali, Sen. Maina, Hon. Ochieng, Sen. Onyonka, Hon. Kiplagat, Sen. Wamatinga, Hon. Otiende Amollo, Hon. Fatuma Jehow, Hon. Ojiambo Oundo, Sen. Eddy Gicheru and I. I thank all these Members for giving time to deal with the matter that was before us. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is a recommendation on the mediated version of the Bill, which has been attached to this report. The big issue we dealt with during the mediation was the fact that there were revenue shortfalls that came as a result of the withdrawal of the Finance Bill, 2024. The withdrawal of the Finance Bill, 2024 had some unprecedented implications on Government finances. This occasioned a shortfall in projected revenue collection of Kshs346 billion in the Financial Year 2024/2025. It necessitated again the reorganization and rationalization of Government's financial arrangements for the Financial Year 2024/2025. I was going to request colleagues to look at the realities that we were faced with when we sat on your The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."},{"id":1502627,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1502627/?format=json","text_counter":59,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mungatana, MGH","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"behalf in that Committee. There was need to approve a version that would allow the National Treasury to produce and allocate approved amounts to the counties that were available. It would not make sense for us to stick to a hardline position when, in fact, the National Treasury would not have the capacity to disburse the amounts that we sought. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, equally, there was additional funding that was sought by the counties, but these were occasioned by policies of the national Government. For example, contributions by counties to the Housing Levy, NSSF contributions, counterpart funding for Community Health Promoters (CHPs), county aggregation and industrial parks, amongst many others. These are national Government policies that required counterpart funding from the county governments and because of that, counties had requested for additional funding. We are trying to explain the rationale behind us taking a lower amount as opposed to what we had agreed here as a House. We agreed that we shall adjust the figures to reflect the realities. Having considered the possible options, the committee resolved that- (a)The national Government equitable share for the Financial Year 2024/2025 be Kshs2,235,993,000,000 - if I am not reading it wrong. (b)The county equitable share for the Financial Year 2024/2025 be Kshs387,425,000,000. (c)The Equalization Fund be Kshs8 billion, of which Kshs7,825,814,725 is the constitutional 0.5 per cent and Kshs147,185,275 is the contribution of arrears to the fund. (d)Therefore, Clause 3 of the Bill is deleted in its entirety. This implies that the section where there will be shortfall within the revenues in the Financial Year 2024/2025 was to be shared between the two levels of government and the capping of what was to be borne by the county governments at 15 per cent was dropped. Consequently, the provisions of Section 5 of the Division of Revenue Act (DORA) 2024 remain and in case of revenue shortfall, it shall be borne by the national Government. Similarly, in case of excess revenue collection, it shall accrue to the national Government and may be used to reduce deficit or to defray public debt. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in short, that is the agreement. The last thing we also said was that we wanted to encourage county governments to establish strategies and mechanisms to improve the collection of Own Source Revenue (OSR) in order to reduce over-reliance on equitable share as a main source of funding. I have attached the minutes of the Committee. I have also attached the agreed version of the Bill. I just want to say one thing before I move. The team that this House sent for the mediation was a very competent team and we were led by none other than our Chairman of the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget, the Hon. Sen. Cpt. Ali Roba. We did our best and we even had open sessions that you saw on television which were carried live. However, there were also closed sessions which were done out of the sight of the public where we were given figures and taken through. We also agreed with this team and we listened to a presentation that was saying that even if we insist on some position, there is a possibility that the National Treasury in reality may not be able to disburse the amounts despite the willingness. It could be a situation where the spirit is willing, but the body is weak. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."},{"id":1502628,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1502628/?format=json","text_counter":60,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mungatana, MGH","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I humbly beg our Members to have confidence that what we did was what is good for us. We are also faced with the reality that if we do not have an agreed version, then our county governments are going to be stuck. We are going to grind to a halt. Whatever we are using now, and what the county governments are using is going to end by December. All of us who have been going to the counties know the problems that the counties are suffering from. If we are the protectors of these counties, having been led ably by the team that is there and we have been given the figures that the National Treasury was able to display to us, I truly urge that we support. I am asking colleagues to have faith that what we did was the best deal that we could secure for us. I am also asking Hon. Members to look at the other threat of our own counties coming to a grinding halt. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those many remarks, I also want to encourage county governments to increase their own source revenue. We felt, even in that Mediation Committee, that we need to do more so that we can reduce the reliance on the equitable share. I beg to move and ask Sen. Sifuna, who was also a Member of this Committee, to second this Motion. I thank you."},{"id":1502629,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1502629/?format=json","text_counter":61,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Sifuna","speaker_title":"","speaker":{"id":13599,"legal_name":"Sifuna Edwin Watenya","slug":"sifuna-edwin-watenya"},"content":"Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Just like Sen. Mungatana, I was extremely honoured to be nominated by this House to represent the Senate in this mediation. In defence of devolution, I could not have asked for greater allies to go to war with - if I might use that term - than the National Assembly on this particular issue. I wish to take this opportunity to thank the Chairperson of our Standing Committee on Finance and Budget, Sen. Cpt Ali Roba, for providing very robust leadership of the Senate team. The team comprised of the Senator for Mombasa County, Sen. Faki, Sen. Veronica Maina, Sen. Onyonka, Sen. Wamatinga - who is my chairperson for the Committee on Energy; Sen. Mungatana and Sen. Oketch Gicheru. It was my first time in a mediation such as this and I honestly would not want to be in a different team other than this one. When we met the Members of the National Assembly, they had also sent a very strong team and they kept reminding us at every turn that many of them were PhD holders, doctors and economists like the Hon. (Dr.) Makali Mulu. Hon. (Dr.) Makali Mulu kept reminding us that we may be lawyers, we might see certain things, but when it comes to figures and numbers, we need to take a back seat and listen to him. It was a very interesting exercise, but one of the things that we could agree on, especially as a Senate and as I said yesterday during debate on the President's State of the Nation Address, it is very easy to agree on other things once you agree on principles. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am very proud of the position that this Senate took; that there are certain principles we laid on the table from the onset of this mediation. The first principle was that counties must never in any financial year receive money that is less than what they received in the preceding financial year. We convinced the Members of the National Assembly on this important principle. Number two, because of inflationary trends and other things that crop up including growth in annual wages, there always has to be, year on year, an increment in The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."},{"id":1502630,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1502630/?format=json","text_counter":62,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Sifuna","speaker_title":"","speaker":{"id":13599,"legal_name":"Sifuna Edwin Watenya","slug":"sifuna-edwin-watenya"},"content":"the allocation to counties, even if it be marginal in exceptional years such as this, when we do not have a Finance Act in place. The third principle that we agreed on and we were able to convince our colleagues in the National Assembly, is that the county governments can never bear any shortfalls in revenue, since the national Government has more headroom in budgeting. The most important principle is, it is them who draw up these estimates. It is the National Treasury that comes up with these estimates, and you will remember that during that particular process, county governments have absolutely no role. It is for them to make sure that if they project revenues and there are shortfalls, that burden cannot be borne by county governments. I believe, having agreed and set those three principles, it is going to be very easy going forward, for us to agree on this process of division of revenue. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there was also a very interesting conversation. Sometimes Members of the National Assembly feel that we accuse them of not understanding the needs of the county governments and the need for them to serve the people. One of the things we agreed on in this mediation was that there are no Kenyans who belong to county governments and Kenyans who belong to the national Government. That all Kenyans belong to all these governments. The 47 county governments and the national Government. As a matter of fact, your ordinary Kenyan, the people of Mathare, or a voter in Mathare, does not care who comes to repair a bridge that has been damaged after a flood. They just want the bridge done. Therefore, this back passing and blaming each other on who is supposed to get what, is something that the common mwananchi does not support. They just want work to be done. That conversation was interesting because it was being heard in the context of the existing role between the Council of Governors (CoG) and the National Assembly on the Road Maintenance Levy Fund (RMLF). This is where the county governments have taken the National Assembly to court claiming a portion of the monies that are collected under RMLF to do our roads. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is an acknowledged fact that there are certain classes of roads that belong to county governments so they are the responsibility of county governments. This tussle between the National Assembly and the county governments does not help anyone. You live in Nairobi and all the time remind me that your children voted for me. They are complaining about the state of the roads in Nairobi. Everybody is complaining about the state of the roads in Nairobi all across---"},{"id":1502631,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1502631/?format=json","text_counter":63,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Kathuri","speaker_title":"The Deputy Speaker","speaker":{"id":13590,"legal_name":"Murungi Kathuri","slug":"murungi-kathuri"},"content":" Sen. Sifuna, I live in Meru. My children go to school in Nairobi and live in Nairobi. Do not misguide the Meru community that I live in Nairobi."}]}