{"count":1608389,"next":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=json&page=152693","previous":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=json&page=152691","results":[{"id":1545112,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545112/?format=json","text_counter":162,"type":"scene","speaker_name":"","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"(Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale on 18.3.2025)"},{"id":1545113,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545113/?format=json","text_counter":163,"type":"scene","speaker_name":"","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"(Resumption of debate interrupted on 18.3.2025)"},{"id":1545114,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545114/?format=json","text_counter":164,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Hon. Kingi","speaker_title":"The Speaker","speaker":null,"content":" Now, hon. Senators, at the interruption of debate, Sen. Daniel Maanzo had the Floor with a balance of 13 minutes. He is not in the House, and therefore the Floor is open. Senator Faki, you may proceed."},{"id":1545115,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545115/?format=json","text_counter":165,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Faki","speaker_title":"","speaker":{"id":13211,"legal_name":"Mohamed Faki Mwinyihaji","slug":"mohamed-faki-mwinyihaji-2"},"content":"Asante Bw. Spika kwa kunipa fursa hii kuchangia Mjadala wa Ripoti ya Kamati ya Fedha na Bugeti ya Bunge hili kuhusiana na mipango ya kuthibiti madeni katika mwaka 2025/2026. Hatuna habari nzuri kuhusiana na deni katika nchi yetu kwa sababu, deni limepanda kutoka trilioni kumi nukta mbili tokea Juni mwaka jana mpaka trilioni kumi na moja kufikia Januari thelathini na moja mwaka huu. Deni hili limeongezeka likiwa ni pamoja na deni la nyumbani la karibu trilioni tano nukta sita na deni la kimataifa la kutoka nchi za inje ambalo ni trilioni tano nukta nne. Katika mipango kama hii iliyoletwa mwaka jana, Hazina Kuu walikuwa wamependekeza kwamba ijapokuwa deni limepita kile kiwango kinachostahili, yaani asili mia hamsini na tano ya mapato ya nchi, wanayo mipango ya kuipunguza polepole kufikia mwaka 2027 deni hili litakuwa limefika katika kiwango cha asili mia hamsini na tano ambacho ndicho sheria ambayo tuliipitisha mwaka juzi inanavyosema kuhusiana na deni ambalo liko nchini. Mwelekeo ni kuwa hivi viwango vya deni hili havitapungua mpaka mwaka 2030. Na kwa sababu hiyo ndiyo kuletwa Mswada wa Marekebisho ya Sheria ya Fedha (Public Finance Management Act). Kuna mapendekezo ya kuibadilisha ili ule muhula wa kuhudumu uanze wakati sheria itakapobadilishwa kuliko vile tulipitisha mwaka 2023. Kwa sababu hiyo, tunaendelea kuchukua deni na deni na jambo hili litaweza kuathiri vizazi vijavyo. Deni hii ambayo tunaichukuwa sasa, mara nyingine hata Hazina Kuu haiwezi kueleza pesa zile zimetumika kivipi. Kwa mfano, jana tulipokuwa na mkutano wa Kamati ya Fedha na Bajeti, Waziri John Mbadi aliielezea kamati kwamba mnamo tahere 22.8.2022 kulichukuliwa deni. Kabla ya Serikali hii kuingia mamlaka, kulichukuliwa deni la bilioni kadhaa, nafikiri ni shilingi bilioni kumi na moja. Waziri, hakuweza kueleza deni hii ilitumika kwa mambo gani katika nchi yetu. Kwa hivyo, deni zinachukuliwa lakini hatuoni miradi yoyote ya kiserikali ambayo inafanyika. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."},{"id":1545116,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545116/?format=json","text_counter":166,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Faki","speaker_title":"","speaker":{"id":13211,"legal_name":"Mohamed Faki Mwinyihaji","slug":"mohamed-faki-mwinyihaji-2"},"content":"Vile vile, kuna madeni ambayo yamechukuliwa lakini miradi haijaanza. Asubuhi ya leo Waziri wa Maji, Usafi wa Mazingira na Unyunyuziaji alisema hakuna pesa za kulipa ridhaa kwa wale ambao ardhi zao zinachukuliwa kwa hizo miradi za maji. Ukiangalia katika Wizara ya Barabara na Uchukuzi, kuna miradi mingi ambayo imeanzishwa kupitia kwa ufadhili wa wahisani wetu lakini Serikali haijalipa ridhaa wale ambao ardhi zao zinachukuliwa ili barabara hizo zijengwe. Takriban Shilingi bilioni mia mbili zinahitajika kulipa ridhaa kwa wale ambao ardhi zao zinachukuliwa ili miradi hiyo iweze kufanywa. Kwa hivyo, utapata kuwa pesa zimekopwa na zimekaa katika account lakini hakuna kitu ambacho kinafanyika. Pesa ziko katika benki lakini hakuna mradi unaoendelea kwa sababu serikali haijaweza kuwalipa ridhaa wale ambao ardhi zao zimeadhiriwa na miradi hiyo. Vile vile, kuna zile pesa ambazo zinalipwa na Serikali kama commitment fee. Pesa hizi zinalipwa lakini hakuna kitu ambacho kinafanyika. Kwa hivyo, tunaendelea kulipa madeni ilhali hiyo miradi ambayo inatakikana kufanyika, na iliyofadhiliwa na pesa hizo haijafanyika na kuonekana kuna mazao yanapatikana katika miradi hiyo. Mhe. Spika, jambo lingine ni kuwa Serikali inavyokopa ndivyo ambavyo inazuia wafanyi biashara nchini kwetu kukopa na kufanya biashara zao na kupata faida ili waendelee kulipa kodi. Ikiwa serikali inashindana na wafanyi biashara katika mabenki kukopa pesa, serikali itakopa zaidi kuliko wafanyi biashara kwa sababu serikali iko na s ecurity ama idhibati ya kutosha kuhakikisha kwamba huo mkopo utalipwa. Hata hivyo, kuna wale ambao wanakopa kama wafanyi biashara wa kibinafsi. Wengine wamechukuwa mikopo kufanya miradi ya county. Hivi sasa, serikali za county hazilipi. Vile vile, wengine wamechukua mikopo kufanya mikopo ya serikali kuu, ilhali Serikali Kuu hailipi hayo madeni. Kwa hivyo, ufadhili katika benki hizi utapendelea zaidi wachukue mikopo ya serikali kwa sababu wana uhakika kwamba deni zao zitalipwa, kuliko mtu binafsi ambaye ni mfanyi biashara na hivyo basi biashara zitakufa na hatutaweza kukusanya kodi ya kutosha ya kulipia mikopo hizi. Mhe. Spika, jambo la mwisho ambalo ningependa kuzungumzia ni kwamba, ijapokuwa Serikali Kuu ina nafasi ya kukopa, serikali za kaunti hazina nafasi kama hiyo ya kukopa. Ikiwa atataka kukopa lazima apitie kwa Hazina Kuu na kupata ruhusa ya kukopa, huku mara nyingi ikiwa ni shida kukopa. Kwa hivyo, tunasema kuwa, kwanza Serikali lazima ipunguze matumizi yake. Si lazima wajenge masoko au nyumba za wastani ili wananchi wapate nyumba hizo, yaani affordable housing . Si lazima tufanye sasa. Kwa sababu Uchumi wetu hauwezi kubeba miradi hiyo yote na tuweze kupata maendeleo ambayo itatuwezesha kusonga mbele. Mhe. Spika, tukiangalia katika sehemu nyingi, miradi hii ya affordable housing imekwama, kwa sababu ya ukosefu wa pesa. Hata wengi wa wale wafanyi biashara wa kibinafsi ambao waliekeza katika miradi hii wameshindwa kuuza nyumba hizo kwa sababu hakuna pesa mifukoni mwa Wakenya. Wakenya wengi hawawezi kudhibiti malipo ambayo yanatakikana kulipiwa kila mwezi au kila mara kwa mara ili waweze kuziweka nyumba hizo. Mhe. Spika, kuanza Jumatatu, Jumanne, labda hadi Jumatano, kuna kurasa zaidi ya kumi katika magazeti ambazo zinaonyesha kwamba mali ya Wakenya inauzwa kwa The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."},{"id":1545117,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545117/?format=json","text_counter":167,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Faki","speaker_title":"","speaker":{"id":13211,"legal_name":"Mohamed Faki Mwinyihaji","slug":"mohamed-faki-mwinyihaji-2"},"content":"sababu ya ukosefu wa kulipa madeni ambayo wanachukuwa. Kwa hivyo, hakuna haja ya kujenga nyumba hizi halafu zibaki mahame, na mwishowe popo na wanyama wengine wahamie ndani na kuishi katika nyumba hizi ilhali Wakenya hawawezi kumiliki hizo nyumba. Mhe. Spika, Serikali Kuu inaingilia kazi za kaunti. Unaskia kunajengwa soko na serikali kuu Mjini Mombasa, ilhali soko ile inapaswa kujengwa na Kaunti ya Mombasa. Kilifi wanajengewa masoko na ardhi za kaunti zinachukuliwa na Serikali Kuu kujengwa miradi ambayo serikali za kaunti zinaweza kufanya. Tulipata experience kama hii wakati Serikali Kuu ilipokuja kujenga Mama Ngina Water Front. Walisema sisi tutajenga halafu tutaipeana kwa Serikali ya Kaunti ya Mombasa. Wakati huo Waziri wa Utalii alikuwa Mhe. Balala. Baadaye, title deed ya Mama Ngina Water Front ilipotoka ilipelekwa National Treasury kwa sababu imeekeza katika mradi ule wa Mama Ngina Water Front. Title deed sasa imetoka na imerudi tena katika ofisi ya Gender . Sasa tunapelekwa huku na kule kama kupiga mpira, wakati tunadai haki hiyo. Kwa hivyo, miradi hii yote ambayo Serikali Kuu inapanga kufanya, inafaa ifanywe na serikali za kaunti. Kama kuna pesa za kufanya miradi hii haiwezekani kwamba upande mmoja wanazuia pesa kuja kwenye kaunti. Tulipigana hapa katika kujadili Division of Revenue mpaka tukaenda medition kwa sababu Serikali ilikuwa haina pesa za kutosha. Walituongezea shilingi bilioni tano peke yake kwa zile ambazo walikuwa wamepanga kupeleka katika kaunti zetu. Naona mwaka ufuatao kutakuwa na mvutano sana kwa sababu Kamati yetu ya Fedha na Bajeti imependekeza bilioni mia nne na sitini na tano. Hapo kutakuwa na mvutano kwa sababu Serikali Kuu haiko tayari kupeleka pesa hizo katika kaunti. Hata hivyo, tukiangalia miradi ambayo serikali kuu inataka kufanya, kama vile masoko na nyumba, pesa hizi zikikusanywa pamoja ni nyingi kuliko zile ambazo tumependekeza zipelekwe katika kaunti zetu kama mgao wa 2025/2026. Kwa kumalizia, naunga mkono hii ripoti ambayo imeletwa na Kamati yetu ya Fedha na Bajeti. Tujaribu kuhakikisha ya kwamba tunaiweka Serikali mahali pake kwa maswala ya mikopo. Kuna mikopo mingi ambayo inachukuliwa. Tulipofungua Bunge, niliona ripoti ya madeni ya nchi ililetwa lakini hatujapata fursa ya kuijadili kwa sababu tulikuwa tunajadiliana na maswala ya Budget Policy Statement pamoja na Medium-Term Debt Management Strategy. Lakini, baada ya hapo tutaingilia maswala hayo ya deni kwa sababu deni ndiyo inatukwaza zaidi sisi Wakenya katika kupata maendeleo ambayo tunastahili kupata katika nchi yetu. Asante, Mhe. Spika, kwa kunipa fursa hii."},{"id":1545118,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545118/?format=json","text_counter":168,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mungatana, MGH","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank you for giving me an opportunity to also debate this Report on the 2025 Medium-Term Debt Management Strategy. It is possible for Kenya to be debt free. It is not a dream or a wish. It is possible. In the world, there are examples of countries that have managed to control their spending and manage their finances to the extent that the debt to the Gross domestic product (GDP) ratio has become insignificant, such that these countries have been declared debt-free. The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."},{"id":1545119,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545119/?format=json","text_counter":169,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mungatana, MGH","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"Mr. Speaker, Sir, an example that is always given is that of Hong Kong, the sultanate of Brunei and the country known as Timor-Leste. These countries have done something that is doable even in Kenya. Even within the continent of Africa and despite the fact that we have so much debt as a combined continent, there are countries that have managed to secure their financial management systems to the extent that, the debt to GDP ratio has become very small that we laud them as countries that are almost heading towards debt-free status. The Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) here has a six percent debt to GDP ratio. If you look at Namibia, it has a 22 percent GDP to debt to GDP ratio. The country known as Sao Tome and Principe has a debt to GDP ratio of 32 percent. So, what is this telling us? It is telling us that even Kenya, with the correct approach and with the correct strategy, can become one of those economies that will be celebrated in the continent of Africa as being able to head towards a debt-free status. I therefore commend the Committee of Finance and Budget, led by Sen. Ali Roba, for the fact that they have sat down and looked at possible ways in which we can manage our debt. As stated by previous speakers on this matter, we are not in a good place as a country. In fact, the report shows that we have continued to depend largely on domestic borrowing in this country, which has continued to squeeze credit that would have been available for traders, and would have helped to stir economic development."},{"id":1545120,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545120/?format=json","text_counter":170,"type":"scene","speaker_name":"","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"[The Speaker (Hon. Kingi) left the Chair]"},{"id":1545121,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545121/?format=json","text_counter":171,"type":"scene","speaker_name":"","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"[The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) in the Chair]"}]}