{"count":1608389,"next":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=json&page=152745","previous":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/?format=json&page=152743","results":[{"id":1545632,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545632/?format=json","text_counter":187,"type":"scene","speaker_name":"","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"(Resumption of debate interrupted on 13.3.2025)"},{"id":1545633,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545633/?format=json","text_counter":188,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Abdul Haji","speaker_title":"The Temporary Speaker","speaker":null,"content":" Sen. Methu is not here. Sen. Manzo, you would want to contribute to the report on the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget."},{"id":1545634,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545634/?format=json","text_counter":189,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen Maanzo","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me an opportunity to contribute to the policy statement, which informs the law relating to budgeting and the finance bills. I would like to say that having a policy statement is very The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."},{"id":1545635,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545635/?format=json","text_counter":190,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen Maanzo","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"important because it gives grounds as to how we are going to handle the matters thereafter and how finances will be dealt with. The Senate mainly deals with what will be devolved, but devolution has gone through a lot of challenges. Although the monies going to the counties have been reported not absorbed as quickly as they should be, some of the challenges need to be noted on why governors are not absorbing all the monies in good time. Is it procurement challenges or what challenges are they are going through? We expect the monies given to the governors to be increased and absorbed quickly. When we go to the counties, we see undone roads and water systems which are yet to be connected. Definitely, there is a lot of work to be done by the counties and which has not been noted at the grassroots level. Therefore, it is important that we should make this policy statement, go on to implement the Finance Bill and go on to do the Division of Revenue Bill. As a Senate, we should ensure that counties have good money and that the monies are spent well. One of the biggest challenges has been corruption, skewed procurements and serious pending bills at the county and national levels. When money from businessmen and women is held at the national and county levels, it stops circulating in the economy. Therefore, it is important to clear all verified pending bills in both the national and county governments, so that money can be in circulation. We want to see these businessmen motivated to do more work for the people of Kenya. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I support you."},{"id":1545636,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545636/?format=json","text_counter":191,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Abdul Haji","speaker_title":"The Temporary Speaker","speaker":null,"content":" Sen. Mungatana, proceed."},{"id":1545637,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545637/?format=json","text_counter":192,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mungatana, MGH","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank you for allowing me to contribute to the report of the Senate Finance and Budget Committee on the BPS. Many years ago, when we were in the National Assembly, we never had the opportunity to interrogate the Government's priorities. However, the new Public Finance Management Act, which came after we left the other House, has made it clear under Section 35 that a BPS must be presented before the actual estimates are presented. When this BPS comes, it outlines the priorities that the Government or the administration in power is supposed to set up. It also outlines what we should expect when the actual estimates come with the details of how monies are supposed to be raised and spent. I did not want to be long, but I wanted to mention two things that are not reflected in this BPS. The BPS estimates that revenue will grow by about 10 per cent. Ordinary revenue is supposed to raise about Kshs259 billion, which is about 10 per cent of what was raised last year. The surprising thing is that there has been no corresponding growth in the allocation that is supposed to go to county governments. The question then begs, are county governments inferior to the national Government? The Constitution has given us a clear answer. These are two levels of Government and none is superior to the other. Both levels have different functions with different mandates to execute those functions. We have said many times here that the National Treasury seems to be working only for the national Government. If ordinary revenue is rising by 10 per cent, the logical thing is that county governments should expect a 10 per cent increment. That should be The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."},{"id":1545638,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545638/?format=json","text_counter":193,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mungatana, MGH","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"the projection and the allocation. However, that is not what is reflected in this BPS. We need to push this to have two separate treasuries. When money is collected, it should be split automatically. The percentage that goes to counties must go to a different treasury than the one going to the counties. This BPS only serves the National Treasury's purpose. We need to interrogate this and ask ourselves if it recognises that county governments also need an equivalent amount in terms of projected increment of ordinary revenue. I suggest that this be looked at afresh. Our mandate, as Senators, is to fight for these county governments. We have come from a history where the first President of this Republic wanted to finish up with majimbo governments. Majimbo governments were equivalent to the counties that we have now. First of all, what he did was to deal with the Senate by merging it with the National Assembly. When they absorbed this, there was no one who was fighting for resources for the majimbo governments. Then, the majimbo governments died a natural death. If that had not happened more than 50 years ago, then we would not be talking of only one trunk road in the entire Tana River County. We would not be talking of segregation in terms of development for the Arid and Semi-Arid Land (ASAL) counties because we would have had our own majimbo . Senators would have been fighting for our resources. Maybe we would have good schools as they are in other regions, and have a better road network, as they are in other regions, title deeds are as available in our areas as they are in other regions. The segregation and discrimination that these regions suffered were caused by that decision at that time.We want to be clear that this BPS seems to favour only the national Government. If there are 10 per cent increments, the correct thing to do is also to state clearly that there will be at least a 10 per cent increment to the counties. The other second thing I want to focus on is that in December, 2024, the Intergovernmental Relations Technical Committee (IGTRC) identified, delineated and transferred several functions to the county governments. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the BPS of 2025 that we are debating now does not give any framework for allocating and transferring resources to those functions that were allocated or transferred to county governments. So, you can see that this BPS does not reflect the interests of the counties. The thinking in the National Treasury is still only serving the national Government. For those listening to me in Kenya, I am calling for a clear separation of powers. When the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) raises money, we should take it for the national Government to a separate treasury from the money that is supposed to be sent to county governments. If this does not happen, this kind of attitude will continue. The IGRTC sits down and delineates functions. They will transfer some functions from the national Government to county governments, but there are no funds that follow functions. What kind of thinking is this? The BPS does not reflect the simple principle that funds or resources follow function. If these functions have been transferred, why is there no process or framework that has been shown clearly in this BPS? The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."},{"id":1545639,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545639/?format=json","text_counter":194,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Mungatana, MGH","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"I have a lot of respect for the current Cabinet Secretary for National Treasury and Economic Planning, Hon. Mbadi. My prayer is that he will not go there and be surrounded by people who think that it was a mistake to create counties. I want to remind him that he intended to run for a county government position, that is the governor, before he came in as a nominated Member here. He should rearrange those people who serve in the National Treasury. We need people who are pro-devolution and will protect it. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Senate should be given an opportunity to nominate people who will be working as advisors in that Ministry. It seems the people who were presenting this BPS did not consult at all or care to hear the views of those of us who are in the devolution family. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, yesterday, there was a lot of hullabaloo from another member of the devolution family; the County Assemblies Forum (CAF). They were raising issues because some of the promises that were given in terms of financial emoluments that they expected are not reflected in this BPS. This means there are strategies that have not been prioritised. The promises to help our MCAs who have been degraded from job positions they used to have in the previous government are forgotten. An MCA serving in the previous election – 2022 - was earning better than the current one. We cannot celebrate when we see another member of the devolution family suffering. It is our responsibility to continue raising these issues because the National Treasury is not friendly to devolution. The National Treasury thinks that CAF should not be given any more money and that the devolution family is draining them. They do not think that when you increase funds or you take them to follow functions, it is an investment for this country. They think it is better to add more money to security or international relations, but not to the devolution family. We must call out the National Treasury for what it is. I fully support this report by our very able Committee under the leadership of Sen. Ali Roba, the Senator for Mandera County. We thank them because they have flagged out these issues which are on record. We need now to deliberately populate the National Treasury with people who think devolution is important. The National Treasury needs to be drained of workers who have grown up thinking that counties or members of the devolution family are not important or are a nuisance. You cannot devolve functions and not give money to the governors to execute those functions. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I support."},{"id":1545640,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545640/?format=json","text_counter":195,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Abdul Haji","speaker_title":"The Temporary Speaker","speaker":null,"content":" Thank you, Senator. There being no other Senator wanting to contribute, I will ask the Mover to reply. Is it Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale? Sen. Tabitha Mutinda, Vice-Chairperson, proceed."},{"id":1545641,"url":"http://info.mzalendo.com/api/v0.1/hansard/entries/1545641/?format=json","text_counter":196,"type":"speech","speaker_name":"Sen. Tabitha Mutinda","speaker_title":"","speaker":null,"content":"Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I start by appreciating all colleague Senators who have given their views and remarks on the issue of BPS. As I reply, I want to mention where we have come from as far as BPS is concerned. We do this every year. It has a timeline, that is 15th February, which is not very appropriate. This is an issue that we have raised as a Committee. I am happy The electronic version of the Senate Hansard Report is for information purposesonly. A certified version of this Report can be obtained from the Director, Hansard and AudioServices, Senate."}]}